In response to:

5 Reasons God Allows Tragedies Like the Sandy Hook Massacre To Occur

ericynot Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:23 PM
For God to "allow" Sandy Hook to happen, there would have to be an active, involved god. While there obviously is some generative force that begat the universe we live in, I've seen no evidence of any supernatural force watching over us or caring what we do or do not do, or whether we're happy or miserable. We're here, at least for a while. For our lives and our societies to function well, we need to figure out for ourselves what best works for that to happen. The only "natural laws" are those of physics, chemistry, etc. The laws that regulate human interaction are all man-made and subject to change. We need to work very hard to test the efficacy and relative fairness of all such regulation.
CogitoErgoSum Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:58 PM
"There are no atheists in a foxhole." Similarly, any thinking person can no longer be a theist after witnessing the Sandy Hook massacre. And Mr. Hawkins' 5 reasons are pretty lame and boil down to being a bit delusional with an imaginary friend - and not very friendly imaginary friend at that.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 2:08 PM
" Similarly, any thinking person can no longer be a theist after witnessing the Sandy Hook massacre"

Typical early 21st century American thinking. No suffering or misfortune happens in life to us. We are to be spared the indignities and realities of life because, yes, we are special. Unlike the billions of persons who have lived and died before us.

No misfortune must be allowed to sully our otherwise tranquil existences.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:24 PM
Answer the question of how inert matter first became self-aware.
don2496 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:29 PM
As you stated earlier, you will never receive an answer to that question from the God doesn't exist crowd.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:32 PM
No, and I never have yet, but my hope is to get at least one of them to at least THINK a little.

I know. I know. You can lead an atheist to reason but you can't make them think.
nawlins72 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:32 PM
Ignorance of this answer does not prove that it must have been a deity.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:35 PM
But not addressing it, nawlins, in your assessment of life's imponderables, and assuming there is NO God, is a cop-out.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:39 PM
Besides, I never use the term "proof" when discussing the existence of God. I use the term "evidence".

Answer this: is it evidence for God or no God? There are no other alternative explanations. You must choose one or the other.
don2496 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:47 PM
Our point, as believers, is that it tortures logic far less to believe that personality, morality, and self-awareness, (Being-ness, if you will) come from a Supreme Being rather than arising by chance. If you give a monkey a typewriter and a billion years will he produce War and Peace? We say no, and lightning striking matter does not produce Consciousness, either.
ericynot Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:49 PM
Cleo,

I don't know where everything came from any more than you do. I'm not an atheist (which should be evident from my original post). I'm agnostic, meaning I can't answer such questions, don't expect to be able to, don't expect anyone else to do it for me, and that the fact that I do not know does not particularly concern me.

Though I remain infinitely curious, I am not willing to accept made-up answers. My personal hope (as opposed to belief) regarding heaven is that it's the place where after we die we get all those answers that are not available to us in this life.
nawlins72 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:53 PM
Cleom, what cop out? Man has been searching for this answer forever and still does. It is you who refuses any evidence outside of your unsupported theory of divine intervention. As with all discoveries, the religious fanatic will reject reality to hold to his preconceived notions.
nawlins72 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 1:55 PM
Your question doesn't make sense. "Is it evidence for God or no God?" Is WHAT evidence?
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 2:02 PM
The question of inert matter becoming self-aware.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 2:04 PM
nawlins, you say I "refuse any evidence outside of (my) unsupported theory of divine intervention".

Evidence for What, exactly, am I refusing?
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 2:09 PM
ericynot posts:

"Cleo,

I don't know where everything came from any more than you do."

How do you know I don't?
ericynot Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 3:03 PM
Cleo,

Are you saying you know for sure where everything came from? If so, how? Are you in possession of knowledge no one else I've ever met has? If that's what you are saying, how did you come by this amazing knowledge?

As a Christian, it can be difficult to reconcile all the evil that happens in the world with an all knowing, all powerful loving God who could stop it if He wants, but chooses not to do so. If our hearts break for the innocent children who were senselessly murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary, how can a God who loves us not feel the same way? If any of us had known what Adam Lanza was going to do, we would have done anything in our power to stop him, so why didn't God? All too often we tend to quote...

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