Kurokitsune, I suggest you see a psychiatrist. If you see attack, threats or lies in my and David's posts, you're suffering some serious paranoid delusions and need to get some help. Anderson has similar problems, he sees things that aren't there too and has a tendency to hold a grudge about things that aren't true, that he has no knowledge of. That's weird behavior on both your parts. Get help, get a life. You don't know David and I so don't flatter yourself and speak of us as if you did.

The point of marrying, is to marry someone who shares your same sexual orientation. What point is there in an asexual marrying someone who is gay or hetero? It would mean one of the couples wants sex, and the other doesn't. See how that wouldn't work? Heteros can marry someone of their same orientation, and a gay person cannot. Nor once married, can they have the federal rights and protections because of DOMA. So, no there ISN'T marriage equality. And it's dissenters like you who like to point out that over 30 states still ban it. So if equality were in effect, none of that would exist. So don't lie about that. Don't misrepresent the facts. When a person marries someone of their same orientation, marriage in this society or anywhere else doesn't change or lose it's importance. It's a matter of inclusion of gay people for the same things already legal and acceptable. You're proving another example of how you misrepresent and have no interest in what's factual and why we're having this debate in the first place.

Kurok: what lies, attacks or threats? Well? You just love dropping a slander like that with absolutely NO proof. The claims you keep making are easy when you're safe behind a keyboard. David and I certainly haven't attacked anyone, not here or anywhere. However, I'd say there is great urgency in supporting gay people because it's they who actually have to deal with anything from having lost their careers, to being stonewalled when trying to get goods and services around weddings. But most importantly, the violence that takes their lives directly or indirectly that's killed even gay children. The casualty list for gays is real. Your claims are not. When you have some evidence and facts, not just empty claims and retorts, then perhaps I might think I'm dealing with an adult. To advocate for social justice is not the work of 'selfish brats'. Show us ALL where there is a lie, attack or threat that Dave and I have here. PROVE it! Well?

As Dr. King said "Church is the most segregated hour in America". Good one, WW.

I don't know why it's gotten past you that too many Christians act as if THEY have authority over other people. They invoke God as if God has left them in charge to decide who deserves human and civil rights, who deserves to live, who deserves to be married or what jobs or birth control they can access. It's happening right before our eyes where gay people are concerned. And where women are concerned who have ALWAYS been the battleground when it comes to religion and the religious entitling themselves to decide how gender engages them. I haven't heard of any high ranking atheists telling a soldier they CAN'T pray or go to worship. Have you? I'm guessing atheists only act to keep what happened to dg from occurring.

When there HAVE been those abuses, Marcos, THEN lodge a complaint. But not before any such thing has happened. There have been NO court martials, no discharges on the basis of being Christian. What dg is describing is typical behavior of some Christians, NOT the other way around. Barber is speaking in WILD conjecture, NO basis in facts or evidence. "The potential for abuses in the other direction" is extremely rare. Atheists only act when believers pull exactly what dg's co did. Christians pull rank all the time. Invoking 'God will punish you if you don't obey' routine to complete strangers, and demand accommodation in everything. Public schools are still the battleground for MANDATORY prayer and religious monuments. Well, why? Believers have any number of venues in which to pray, congregate on private or church property, or to quietly do so in public parks even. But when you start carrying signs, screaming at people, scaring their children or demanding your tacky and obnoxious monuments be anywhere you want, it's CHRISTIANS who offend. Atheists do NONE of that. They don't say Christians can't pray, just don't force others to engage in it, or your monuments in spaces that aren't necessary for you to. Atheists have no reason to make YOU NOT believe in God or Jesus. THEY just don't want to. You can tell how easily a Christian will take offense when someone doesn't believe, whether they've said there is no God or not.

They are established whether the couple has a child or not. And gay adults are raising thousands and thousands of children too. What about THOSE children? Shouldn't THEIR security through marriage be a fact of life too? This is where you contradict the phony concern for children. All children being raised lovingly and responsibly don't matter if their parents are gay. Those children don't deserve to have the security and stability that marriage brings. So why SOME children and not ALL the children whose parents WANT to be married? Well? You have no restraint of an opinion. I'm waiting for an intelligent and legally established reason for denying couples to marry because they don't have children, or the children you think they shouldn't be raising.

Apparently, gender IS a matter of morality in religious communities. Females being worthy of inferior social status, violence and subjugation. And males and females that don't adhere to the narrow and rigid standards of gender that's ARTIFICIALLY defined and enforced, are horribly punished for it. Even though gender is a neutral aspect of morality. As is sexual orientation too. Getting moral cues from a brutal, primitive and violent culture that stoned women to death for minor or imagined offensive apparently is more respected than the social justice we have now. But that's only because the people who want to think that way, feel assured no stones will come at THEIR heads.

That is one of the more patently dumb statements that can be made. No amount of bigotry against a person that restricts their ability to be fully realized, productive citizens even though they still are participating on all the responsibilities as such, would ever be right. Deciding another person is inferior on the basis of a single distinguishable feature that doesn't render them dangerous or incompetent is wrong. And such thinking becoming civil law is something you should have learned about of recent history as a serious negative on society.

First of all, no one cares if YOU affirm homosexuality or not. It's not a lifestyle. It's a sexual orientation. And everyone has one. And there isn't any reason to not accept it as such and only that. Nobody SHOULD care about what YOU think when it is ignorant and lacking in facts. What does require affirmation, is that gay citizens are responsible, law abiding, and productive. When they commit to another person and especially the children they are raising together, THAT is what the gov't and society would applaud. It's punishing gay people for accomplishing the same things that het people are supported in that's not right. The plumbing isn't what matters because anyone can lose function or their reproductive organs. It's the heart and soul and potential for self reliance and contributions in other aspects that should as well. If not more.