In response to:

Progressives Simply Do Not Like The United States

Donjindra Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 11:38 AM
"Conservatives", tout the Judeo-Christian community, the gun owner community, the white-like-me community, or the family values community. "Conservatives" tell us "First and foremost is family." But real Americans know first and foremost is the individual. Hunter complains when one elderly woman is presented as a norm. Yet he presents a heroin addict as his norm. He worries that the addict pays no income tax. But does he worry that there are 100,000 Americans with incomes above $210,000 who pay no income tax? Hunter scoffs at enforced “obligation to one another.” Yet would he apply that theory to our national defense? To "community standards?" To abortion? Derek Hunter's piece is an exercise in hypocrisy.
Al1997 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:05 PM
It appears to me the Mr. Hunter was pretty much quoting the constitution straight down the line. In reading his article his position was consistently Freedom of all individuals to follow their own path as long as they in turn allowed others the same position.
This pretty much is the Preamble of the Constitution which lays out the guide lines of all the Articles within.
Let us take a look at those words:
"We the People", that is us, you and me, Citizens. "in order to form a more perfect union', the purpose of the document, followed by a listing of those items. 'establish Justice', 'provide for the common defense', 'promote the general welfare', and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity'.
That is it, nothing else
Al1997 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:16 PM
Do you find any other obligations in this besides 'Provide for the Common Defense'. I do not. Our only obligation to each other is our Common Defense, what other obligation could anyone possibly wish for that would not be infringing upon others rights of Choice and Freedom?
Think it over, REALLY THINK...
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:33 PM
Al...you ARE asking alot of these people...
nawlins72 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:47 PM
"Do you find any other obligations in this besides 'Provide for the Common Defense'. I do not. Our only obligation to each other is our Common Defense, what other obligation could anyone possibly wish for that would not be infringing upon others rights of Choice and Freedom? Think it over, REALLY THINK..."

The problem with "common defense" is the means to this ends. Homeland Security, the Patriot Act, the TSA, etc. all fall under this "defense" meme, yet are not what one tends to consider when thinking of military defense of our shores. Conservatives are quick to give government a blank check whenever the words "defense" or "national security" are uttered.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 7:01 PM
I do believe 911 occured on our shores and was perpetrated from within.....defense is a far cry from Obamacare.
MotorcycleMama55 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:36 PM
please provide a link with your stats on Americans with incomes above 210,000.00 who pay no income tax. I rather doubt it.

White like me community? Racist. Typical Prog Racist. Just like Derek was talking about. It scares the h*ll out of you that you might just have to go through life being responsible for your own actions, so it makes you feel better to put everyone into nice, neat racial boxes.
Lib at Heart Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:47 PM
The stats on Americans making more that 210,00 is a false figure. It is true if you twist the facts, but those people are paying taxes. They just don' pay additional taxes each April. Same thing for the 49 percent of Americans who pay no income tax. A prime case of statistics being manipulated.
Lib at Heart Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:47 PM
The stats on Americans making more that 210,000 is a false figure. It is true if you twist the facts, but those people are paying taxes. They just don' pay additional taxes each April. Same thing for the 49 percent of Americans who pay no income tax. A prime case of statistics being manipulated.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:56 PM
Same thing for the 49 percent of Americans who pay no income tax
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???? No these people don't pay federal income tax...that is a fact not a manipulation.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:56 PM
Same thing for the 49 percent of Americans who pay no income tax
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???? No these people don't pay federal income tax...that is a fact not a manipulation.
Lib at Heart Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 2:19 PM
A fact is something that can be proved true or false, so yes, that is a fact. And yes, it is false.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 2:40 PM
A fact is something that can be proved true or false, so yes, that is a fact.
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Yes..it is a fact that they pay no federal income tax.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 2:53 PM
In 2009, for example, the Tax Policy Center projected 47 percent of people would pay no income tax that year, up from previous estimates of 38 percent -- largely due to additional tax credits through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Tax Act of 2009.

Lib at Heart Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 3:10 PM
Let's take it slow: Same thing for the 49 percent of Americans who pay no income tax. (That's false)

47 percent of people would pay no income tax that year (that's false)

it is a fact that they pay no federal income tax. (that's true)

The key term here is "federal income tax." Dropping the word federal from the first two makes the statements false. Many of these people DO pay some state income taxes. Be careful in what you say and what you read. Small differences can be significant.

BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 5:38 PM
A fact is something that can be proved true or false, so yes, that is a fact. And yes, it is false.
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Well...so much for your "opinion"..now where are your facts?
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:08 PM
The key term here is "federal income tax."
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I suggest you read my posts again......I said "pay no Federal" income tax. I also suggest you read a little bit about the tax policy center statement that says 49 percent pay NO income tax...this is also true because this takes into account those recieving refunds and credit.

Try again son!
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:10 PM
LIB: Either take the time to read BEFORE you post lest you look the fool.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 12:37 PM
Yet would he apply that theory to our national defense? To "community standards?" To abortion?
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Different topic altogether......to state otherwise IS hypocritical. Try Again!
Donjindra Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:32 PM
Why is it a different topic? Because it's embarrassing to see that it's conceptually the same.
BK22 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 1:43 PM
Because it's embarrassing to see that it's conceptually the same
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No actually..it's not.
GodsavethePeasants Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 2:36 PM
Ok, moron I will explain it r e a l slow. The constitution not only allows for the feds to provide for the common defense, it DEMANDS that it does so. One of the main reasons for drafting the Constitution, rather than sticking with the Articles of Confederation, was that there was not a vehicle to force the states to fund the Revolutionary War or provide manpower and cooperation in doing so. As to abortion, that was and should remain a states issue, but more importantly, the issue has ALWAYS been that my rights end where they trample on yours; the most basic of which is the right to life. as to community standards, I have no idea what you are talking about or its' relationship to this discussion, Try again, useful idiot,
nawlins72 Wrote: Apr 02, 2012 6:41 PM
"The constitution not only allows for the feds to provide for the common defense, it DEMANDS that it does so."

Where does it "demand" it? I see that Congress "shall have power" to "provide for the common defense", but I don't see where it says MUST. Also, within this article is the "commerce clause". Are you claiming that Congress MUST regulate commerce?

Ever heard of Dahlia Lithwick? No? Don’t feel bad. I hadn’t either until I read her piece of … something or other … on Slate about the Supreme Court hearing this week on Obamacare.

A quick Google search turned up her Wikipedia entry, which tells me she’s a Canadian and contributing editor at Newsweek and senior editor at Slate. In other words, a committed leftist.

Lithwick writes:

This morning in America’s highest court, freedom seems to be less about the absence of constraint than about the absence of shared responsibility, community, or real concern for those who don’t want anything...