In response to:

God, Democrats, and the Europeanization of America

Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 9:51 AM
"About 10 years ago, the EU was in an intense debate over whether to mention God in its new constitution." In 1789 the Founders neglected to put God into our Constitution too. The Europeans should have followed our lead.
Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 10:15 AM
Where do you read the word "God" in the US Constitution?
Patriot155 Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 10:27 AM
How does the Constitution and YOUR interpretation of what the founding fathers actually intented translates to a totally secular and Godless government. Our basic form of justice and morality comes from the bible. You can sit there at your terminal and try to deny it all you want. The truth is the truth, no matter which way you try to twist it.

Moses carrying the 10 Commandments is carved on the walls inside the Supreme Court building...the list goes on.
Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 10:59 AM
"How does the Constitution and YOUR interpretation of what the founding fathers actually intented translates to a totally secular and Godless government."

You avoid the question. Where is the word "God" in the document?

"Our basic form of justice and morality comes from the bible."

Our justice and morality comes from a combination of human nature and history. The Bible itself comes from the same.
Patriot155 Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 11:06 AM
In all 50 of State Constitutions God is mentioned and referenced in them yet somehow you seem to think that the Founding Fathers intended for our nation to be totally secular. YOU avoided my questions also.
Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 11:45 AM
"somehow you seem to think that the Founding Fathers intended for our nation to be totally secular. "

So now you change the subject. I don't claim the Founders intended our nation to be secular. That would be a stupid thing to believe. But I do claim they (as a group) did intend our *government* to be secular -- hence no mention of God in the Constitution. Kengor pretends the Europeans are leading the way on this and we're in danger of following. That's simply false. The USA did it in 1789.
Patriot155 Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 12:01 PM
No I didn't you and others just don't want to face the truth explain all of the quotes by Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers or signers of the Declaration of Independence. Explain why a statue of Moses and 10 Commandments can also be found as plain as day smack dab righ in front of the Library of Congress also, yet you and others, inspite of all of these references to God in our NATION'S CAPITAL, believe that our Founding Fathers wanted our government to be totally secular. Really? Please explain, if you can, why did our founding fathers, started every cogressional meeting with a prayer?
Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 2:10 PM
I bet I know the Founder's opinions better than you do. Maybe you are a follower of that revisionist Davis Barton. Maybe not. I'll give you benefit of the doubt. So go ahead. Make your case.

"Explain why a statue of Moses and 10 Commandments can also be found as plain as day smack dab righ in front of the Library of Congress"

There are 15 other statues. Explain those. Explain why a mosaic portrait of Minerva, or the Zodiac are doing in the same building.
Patriot155 Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 5:37 PM
Really?
Revisionists? LOL
You lib/progs have cahones of alloyed titanium to be throwing that accusation around. The whole ideology of liberalism is based on a lie. You lie to our kids in school about the Founding Fathers, you lie about the constitution, you lie about how Christianity was the basis or motivation for slavery and the most laughable lie is "separation of church and state". It was meant to protect the church from the state.
Patriot155 Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 5:43 PM
The church in England became a loud blowhorn for the state and that's why many of them left and came to America. I guess it must be stockholm's syntrome because it's so trajically ironic that this is exactly what we are headed for due to all of the lies told and taught to our youth as part of their education.
Funny how it works, quote facts and statements made by the Founding Fathers about their faith in God, your a "revisionst", declare they were atheists who intended for the U.S. to have a totally secular government, you speak the truth..right?

William Penn-"Those who refuse to be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants"
Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 6:27 PM
William Penn died in 1718. Revolution -- 1776. He was no Founder. Same with the Pilgrims. They were not Founders. Try again.

"you're a 'revisionist', declare they were atheists"

I've done no such thing. The only likely atheist I know of was Ethan Allen, and who really knows about him? But maybe this is how you get your "facts." -- by putting words in other people's mouths?


You seem to make the typical Christian mistake. There is no reason to believe Christians and/or Deist *had* to form a religious state. They did not. They, unlike many current insecure Christians, were comfortable with separating government and religion.

Patriot155 Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 6:39 PM
I never claimed that William Penn was one of the Founding Fathers. I just tried to relay a point from who seemed to be a pretty wise individual and his quote seems to ring true all throughout the bible and world secular history to a very large extent.. I never felt the need to twist history into what I want it to be to justify the perversion and other sewage that's being taught to our kids either, unlike insecure atheists or secularists. History and the truth speaks for its self.
I also never claimed that Christians or diests had to form a religious state. I just said that it's false to claim that our Founding Fathers wanted a completely secular one.
Donjindra Wrote: Sep 10, 2012 6:55 PM
"I just said that it's false to claim that our Founding Fathers wanted a completely secular one. "

Unfortunately for you the Constitution says otherwise.

"I just tried to relay a point from who seemed to be a pretty wise individual and his quote seems to ring true all throughout the bible and world secular history to a very large extent.."

And I think history has shown him to be wrong.

"the perversion and other sewage that's being taught to our kids"

Like what?

The battle at the Democratic convention to exclude God from the party’s platform is no minor moment. Do not underestimate what transpired there.

And while it speaks to so many things, at many levels, it reminds me of the recent battle within the European Union to exclude God from the EU constitution. That comparison is no mere academic one. It speaks volumes about the ongoing direction of the Democratic Party, and this nation.

About 10 years ago, the EU was in an intense debate over whether to mention God in its new constitution. The God opponents were the predictable Western European...