In response to:

5 Values We Don't Teach the Way We Should In America

David1454 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 7:56 AM
Countless lifetimes of Judeo-Christian tradition has produced a moral code based on an incredible understanding of human nature (leave "God" out of it). Much of this code is not supportable by casual observations and deductive reasoning, which is why it escapes the atheist who considers that s/he is a "good" person. Why are lust and envy wrong? They don't hurt anyone. What is wrong with two consenting adults (married or not) having a tryst that no one will ever know about? What does it harm when I apply for a government benefit or file an insurance claim that is fraudulent? So what if I "fudge the numbers" on my tax return? The total harm to anyone is so small as to be negligible. Atheists don't get it.
John5840 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 10:38 AM
Highest use of Porn? COnservative states
Highest rates of illegitmate births? COnservative states?
Highest rate of gettign money back from the government beyond what residents pay in? COnservative states.

Highest rate of marraige? LIberal State
LOwest rate of return on federal tax dollars? LIberal state

You were saying?
MichiganWife85 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 11:18 AM
Highest rate of porn? Where do you even find a statistic like that?

In fact, where are your statistics since you like to throw out these arbitrary asinine statements like they're truth.

Oh yeah! Here's some for you:

Pop. of Calif. in 2010: 37, 253, 956; welfare recipients in 2008: 1, 216, 866

Pop. of Texas: 25, 145, 561; welfare recipients in 2008: 115, 690

You do the math.

BTW I got the welfare recipient stats from your very won New York Times.

Argh! Look at me! Arguing with a TROLL. Shame on me :p
Virginia Lady Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 11:52 AM
Another example of why statistics should be kept away from leftists.

Those "conservative" states (like MS, LA, SC) also have the highest percentages of racial minority citizens. And minorities have higher out of wedlock births than whites (for now, anyway) even though they are far, far, far less likely to vote "conservative." (By something like 95%-5%)

But thanks for playing.
MichiganWife85 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 10:33 AM
I understand what you're saying David, but a true evangelical Christian who is informed and knowledgeable of the bible will tell anyone that the nature of a human is NOT good. That's why we need Christ. We're born with the sin nature of Adam and the only way to be redeemed is by accepting Christ and believing that He sacrificed His own life for ours.

Atheists get it alright, but they don't like the idea of themselves not being good, that they have to rely on a higher power for goodness. That's why it was genius of Hawkings to start the article with the concept that children are essentially little savages that need to be civilized (cont)
MichiganWife85 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 10:33 AM
That right there is proof that we're not good. If people are good than they would be born good and that is just not reality.
Kali_Fred Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 12:26 PM
Then how do you explain the millions of people who live perfectly moral lives without the fear of punishment from God? They don't commit crimes, they don't commit adultery, they treat others like they want to be treated.

Does it irritate you that you need a vengeful God to do the right thing but they don't?
MichiganWife85 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 2:12 PM
Fred, "perfectly moral" from your perspective is very relative. I am going based on assumption but you probably think that sex before marriage is okay, right? The bible is VERY CLEAR that premarital sex is a sin, therefore, wrong, bad. Most of these "millions of people who live perfectly moral lives..." probably have had sex before marriage, too, as that is perfectly acceptable in our society now. But to God, that is a sin. You have to remember that not only does God love man, whom he created, but God is also holy, and has to punish sin (cont)
MichiganWife85 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 2:15 PM
That is the thing with atheists: they create their own moral code. God has a very specific moral code. While many people think murdering is wrong, people that murder find justifiable reasons to do so. It doesn't make it bad to them, then. I hope I'm conveying my points well, here. I'm trying to say that people need to follow God and accept Christ because left to their own devices they are unsure, if subconsciously, what is right and wrong. So no, I'm not irritated that I need God as a guide in my life, but rather I find it sad that others reject him.
David3036 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 2:50 PM
The Bible is all over the place on human sexuality -- not at all clear on the subject. The prophets had concubines as well as wives, so sex outside of marriage was not not frowned upon. Deuteronomy tells a woman she must marry her rapist -- today she would call 911 and have him arrested. The Bible tells widows they can't marry outside the family -- they must marry their brothers-in-law. One of Abraham's wives was his half-sister. Lot offered his virgin daughters to be raped by the mob because men "owned" women.

You can persist in this fantasy about biblical morality if you wish, but I suggest you read the Bible again. Read it by yourself instead of in Bible-study class where all the evils and contradictions are explained away.
David3036 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 2:56 PM
Are you suggesting that people who aren't religious find it OK to murder? If you have to rely on an "authority" -- the Bible, God or your pasttor -- to tell you what is right and wrong, it's a sign of immaturity because you've obviously never learned to think for yourself.

The golden rule is not a Christian concept but a natural way of civilized living, and the basis for our laws. My rights end where they infringe on your rights -- that's why we can't kill or steal from each other. It has nothing to with the 10 Commandments or anything in the Bible.
RayTheAnarchoCapitalist Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 8:36 AM
Christian murder other Christians because they don't belong to the same sect of Christianity. You're right, we atheists don't get it.
DCM in FL Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 9:24 AM
And you're helping to demonstrate that, by assuming (in effect) that a small spot of what may be blood on your neighbor's shirt outweighs the blood dripping from your entire arms.
William28 Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 10:05 AM
If THEY WERE REAL "CHRISTIANS" THAT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED BUT WHAT YOU SEE IS A PURGATED FORM OF ROMAN CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANTISM-A FORM OF CATHOLICISM ANYWAY. THE WORD CHRISTIAN MEANT AN "ANOINTED BY GOD" ONE WHO OBEYED THE COMMANDS OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL-THEY WERE ALL JEWS- AND THEY DID NOT DO THOSE THINGS BUT AS YOU KNOW THE JEWS HAVE BEEN PERSECUTED FOREVER, AS THEY DISOBEYED THOSE COMMANDS ,THUS CHRISTIANITY IS UNDER THE SAME PUNISHMENT AND HERE IS WHY:
IF MY PEOPLE
Who are called by MY NAME
Will humble themsleves
and Pray
AND TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS
THEN WILL I HEAR
FROM HEAVEN
AND HEAL THEIR LAND! We don't to He does and the grace people stand there and say "I just don't understand why God isn't answering my prayers"?
DCM in FL Wrote: Jul 24, 2012 10:13 AM
POSTS IN ALL CAPS ARE HARD ON THE EYES.
"Each new generation born is in effect an invasion of civilization by little barbarians, who must be civilized before it is too late." -- Thomas Sowell

We like to think of children as innocent little angels. Of course, that's only true in the sense that there aren't any three year olds who've stabbed their cousins to death for drug money or set up a stock swindle designed to bilk senior citizens out of their life savings. Children are not naturally good. To the contrary, they begin their lives as selfish, completely self-absorbed little savages whose entire world...