In response to:

Hollywood Won 2012?

Dave8528 Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 11:34 AM
Young people are the most impressionable, they watch tv and think that's the norm. Gay marriage is the norm, sleeping around is the norm, being Godless and anti religion is the norm. However, I think most people think this is not the norm. But they are scared, afraid to be considered a homophobe or intolerant, these people often look the other way. People will watch garbage like Modern Family or Glee so they have something to talk about to their friends at work. The people who have morals need to speak out on things such as gay marriage and abortion. This is our children's future, we can't accept immorality as the norm, and we can't look the other way on moral issues. We need to speak out, but in a kind and gentle way.
Networker Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 11:44 AM
Those actions you mention as immoral are just an opinion. Other do not think they are immoral and are allowed to hold that opinion just as you are. But I like the idea of speaking out in a kind and gentle way, it's constructive and would let all sides be heard in a civil manner.
BlackSheepPatriot Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 12:01 PM
Networker, relative morality (morals based on a person's opinion) equals no morality. This country had a set standard for over two hundred years. It was based on Judeo-Christian roots with the belief in a Creator that set the laws of the universe, including morality and freedom-not anarchy and chaos.
Networker Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 12:33 PM
But if one doesn't subscribe to those Judeo Christian beliefs, then they are invalid in the other's eyes. One must base the morals on something more universal than religion.
BlackSheepPatriot Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 1:02 PM
Not necessarily. The Ten Commandments are compatible with any society and those of any person regardless of their beliefs. The basic belief of the Golden Rule can still be ascribed to, no matter what a person's belief system may be. The morals are not based of religion but a Creator who established order. I think it would be hard-pressed to find anything more universal than that.
rightmostofthetime Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 1:13 PM
There is such a thing as morality--right and wrong--in the absence of religion. I'm an agnostic, but I was brought up to understand right from wrong. Denying all morality as relative and only due to differing opinions is equivalent to not understanding the nature of human beings.
Networker Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 1:14 PM
Not all societies subscribe or follow the 10 commandments. Looking at the first few commandments, some societies are polytheistic such as India and build idols of their gods all the time. They don't honor the Sabbath. Other societies don't know what adultery is because they practice plural marriage. Finally others do not believe in a universal creator at all. Does that mean they are less moral than Christians just because they don't follow the 10 commandments? Or is there something more universal that gives them their morality?
BlackSheepPatriot Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 1:22 PM
My response is to look at what type of societies are produced as a result. Also, Bill above , gave an excellent response. Your argument provided above, however valid, is still a straw man as we are referencing to American society and those that would enable its decline by turning away from set truths and morals.
BlackSheepPatriot Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 1:24 PM
Networker, I have truly enjoyed the mental workout and debate today. :) I truly hope you will stick around.
Networker Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 1:36 PM
Bill's response was where I was trying to lead you. There is a certain set of morals that are universal, based on the innate fact that we are human. All humans, no matter what religion, society, culture, etc.. share a certain set of fundamental similarities that all center around not trampling over another's ability to act on their own free will.

Refer to my old professor's book, Niall Ferguson's "Civilization: The West and the Rest" to get a better thesis of why Western civilizations are on top right now. He offers a much better set of reasons than the idea that Judeo-Christian beliefs makes societies great. If that alone made societies great, then why are some Christian countries still poor today (i.e. Haiti, etc)?
Earl29 Wrote: Nov 09, 2012 3:44 PM
Relatively speaking, of course.
The television industry loves to claim that all of the sex, violence and foul-mouthed language it displays has zero harmful effects on children. On the other hand, they would never dream of telling their advertisers that their paid messages on TV have no effect. So does the entertainment industry have an impact or doesn't it?

The answer is that Tinseltown certainly has an effect, and when that effect is felt in the political arena, the hell with pretending they don't. They openly celebrate.

After the 2012 election, the surprising (if narrow) victories for liberals drew a thumbs-up commentary from former...