In response to:

Provocative? Yes. Hateful? No.

Dante9 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:48 PM
From Reagan to most comments herein, the attempts at didactic reasoning based on PERSONAL application of morality are successful ONLY when they marry with similar frames of reference. Fortunately, history shows that those frames of reference change with the times. And, of course, the times are always changing. The market researcher in me is pretty confident most of you are older white males who have trouble understanding today's world in all it's glory and contradictions. You know your time is up and it's not easy to accept that gay marriage is slowly, surely, inevitably winning the day. Being chained to past Supreme Ct minority opinions, your interpretation of the Constitution or the Bible is a hopeless flaying against societal tides.
Fubarack Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 8:35 PM
Dante, you will burn in hell, so who cares what you think????????????
rmccarthy Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:54 PM
While it would be reassuring to believe that the SCOTUS does settle every issue according to simple principles that we can all agree on and respect, that is hardly the case. You mention CHANGE which can be good but takes its turn being both good and bad. In any case, the fact of the matter is that many in the majority are always part wrong yet are too comfortable themselves to see it for the benefit of others. Jesus knows and understands and loves us all. Thank you Jesus.
DCM in FL Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:51 PM
"gay marriage is slowly, surely, inevitably winning the day" -- So, in your world, popularity is the measure of whether something is OK?

"your frame of reference will not marry with mine" -- Your frame of reference is based on what you would like to believe is true, not what is true.
Dante9 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 3:03 PM
In my world, including in some of the ways I am highly paid, popularity frames everything because 1) it drives markets, 2) it establishes irreversible trends and 3) it represent the majority the majority of the time.

Popularity that grows and doesn't reverse itself is never wrong, or it would reverse itself. Slavery, racism, women suffrage, inter-racial marriage and child labor laws are all cases in point.

Gay marriage is becoming mainstream and will continue to do so from early adopters on at all levels of society because it is the right thing. You are an old, die-hard objector that either will or won't see the light. You're also inconsequential since you are but one person with one vote and not on the right side of history here.
Dante9 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:48 PM
But to further explain the pertinence to moral suasion of one’s frame of reference, and to raise your blood pressure all the more, I support abortion rights because of the core conviction that the highest level of privacy is between a woman and her relationship with God, if they have one. If their legal choice to abort is morally wrong, they’ll find out about it in due time if there is a God and if She disdains. If there isn’t a God, it’s all moot. Since none of you can prove the existence of God, nor when the spirit and soul enters the zygote, your frame of reference will not marry with mine. Nor did it with the manner in which the majority of the Supreme Ct ruled in the Texas case or how they will in regards to Prop 8 and DOMA.
Cambermeister Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:52 PM
Are you suggesting consummation could be violation of the defecation location Dante?

Is that what you mean by 'today's world in all it's glory and contradictions'?
DCM in FL Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:55 PM
"only the truly ignorant and incredibly biased and homophobic actually believe gay people choose to be gay"

Here's a news flash for you: Those who know homosexuality isn't simply inborn also don't think it's simply "chosen." Those are not the only two options.

You have waived your right to call others ignorant or biased.
Cambermeister Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:55 PM
Personally, I've never thought of fecal matter as glorious...but if it rocks your world Dante9...enjoy the 'contradiction'.
Cambermeister Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:56 PM
Personally, I've never thought of fecal matter as glorious...but if it rocks your world Dante9...enjoy the 'contradiction'.
DCM in FL Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 12:57 PM
"gay individuals should have ever single right that a non-gay person has"

They do. What's at issue are the "rights" they want beyond those.
Bill1895 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 1:16 PM
Dante: you love to hear yourself talk, even if it is just gibberish.
Dante9 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 2:45 PM
I have every right and the will to call anyone on this site whatever I want, just like you, and will continue to do so if the mood suits me. You prove my very point above about ignorance and homophobia because unless you actually were gay, you would never "know" for sure whether being homosexual was a choice or not. I am not gay but know many who are. I believe them and certainly don't believe you.

There are no choices in this realm; you either are or aren't gay. Just like you either get that or you don't. You either believe in gay marriage or you don't.

Just remember, it's you class that makes mine possible.
Dante9 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 2:48 PM
You don't know what you are talking about, nor even to frame a counter-argument.

Full rights for all gay people that are 100% equivalent to straights like you will stop when it includes the right to the legal state sanctioned marriage in all 50 states and US territories. That day will be here before too long, hopefully when you are still alive.

Dante9 Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 2:56 PM
Not true, Bill. I do enjoy observing the last dying breath of the staunchly anti-gay crowd who has no other venting source left but this website to spew their invective, religious intolerance and frustration. Trust me, the Left has its online psychiatric chairs, too, and those idiots are just as comical as here.

Independents have it best. We accept the good and reject the bad of both parties and aren't so myopic to believe that conservatism or liberalism is the only way in all regards. So, people like you and people on MoveOn.org and the Huffington Post provide fodder for the commentary of people like me. Hurray!!!
Fubarack Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 8:35 PM
Fubarack Wrote: Apr 09, 2013 8:36 PM
Dante, you must be right, I have changed my mind completely just reading your posts........................

Two weeks ago I wrote a column encouraging churches to take a moral stand and make their voices heard as the Supreme Court deliberates the constitutionality of California's Proposition 8, which voters in my home state approved in 2008 to ban same-sex marriage.

I pointed out that the fight over Proposition 8 is not just about the legality of gay marriage; it's part of a larger effort by some factions to change the culture. In that context I wrote: "There is also a very slippery slope leading to other alternative relationships and the unconstitutionality of any law based on morality....

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