In response to:

The GOP -- Not a Club For Christians

Corbett_ Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:21 AM
Jack -- you are absolutely INCORRECT. Science is a product of the Christian religion. It is only in the Christian west that science was possible. People like Newton, Maxwell, Faraday, Heisenberg, Kepler, et al. said it was their Christianity that lead them to make their scientific discoveries.
Jack2894 Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 12:46 PM
ID is not a scientific structure as we know it. This was revealed when Michael Behe testified in the Dover PA ID trial. He admitted himself that ID was scientific in the same way that astrology was scientific. In fact, its an example of exactly what I was saying. Someone had a belief in the CHristian tale of the universe beginning and instread of honestly analyzing the available science, they cast around until they could invent a concept to support thier belief.

Nothing can prove climate change in teh way you want proof. But the vast weight of the available evidence does support that conclusion, especially given that it suggests the mechanism as well as teh outcome.
Donjindra Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 12:33 PM
" Science is a product of the Christian religion. "

Science has nothing to do with the Christian religion.
Libertary Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 12:28 PM
Jack, you're viewing the subject quite narrowly. Believe it or not, ID is a scientific structure. Also, there has been no science to prove that humanity is the cause for climate change. It must feel good to delegitimize any belief besides your own by subjectively pigeonholing with regard to what the disagreeing group does or does not do intellectually. It is not the truth, it's what you surmise.
Jack2894 Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 12:14 PM
I suggest that is untrue. The intellectual contortions one must undergo to deny them are a perfect example of the process in action. People do not begin by analyzing these issues objectively and then concluding they aren't accurate. They begin by denying them and then they look for any possible rationale to support their belief.

The test is whether they are willing to be convinced by the evidence.
DCM in FL Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:58 AM
"global warming, the reality of evolution, and the age of the earth"

Some people question those things because of their belief system, without any investigation or detailed knowledge. But some question those things because they've done the investigation and found that those things simply do not add up scientifically or conform to the scientific method they supposedly represent.
Bruce2397 Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:52 AM
Let's be clear....science is not a "product of the Christian religion." Clearly it was tolerated and thrived in the Christian west, but let's keep our enthusiasm from taking us into the ditch. The people Goldberg is complaining about are not real keen on science either, so I'd be careful with how far I'd push even a more accurate assessment of the way things were.
Unrealistic Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:45 AM
No doubt, in fact Christ was pleased with only 2 of 7 worldwide so called Christian churches (Smyrna and Philedelphia) that basically is 28.5% not a very good #. there is a lot of false doctrine out there.
Jack2894 Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:37 AM
It is certainly possible for Christians to be scientists and grasp the scientific method. However, the most egregious failings to do so, such as the denial of global warming, the reality of evolution, and the age of the earth tend fall to teh evangelical community, whcih evaluates the evidence agaisnt the revealed truth and then ignores or changes the evidence.
Caveat emptor Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:31 AM
You have this narrative about Christianity and science, and this narrative seems to close your eyes to a problem with conservative Christians and their understanding of the scientific method.

Yes there are plenty of Christians in science, and yes the methodology of science has been handed to us be people who thought of themselves as Christians, but that does not mean that all Christians understand the Scientific Method. In fact few Americans understand the scientific method.

So there is room for you and Jack to bothe be right.

Do you get that?
Jack2894 Wrote: Dec 12, 2012 11:29 AM
That would place them outside the current trend in evangelical thinking. Those men were trying to understand the world using reason and observation. Contemporary evangelical Christianity eschews that in favor of revelation.

In the scramble to make the GOP more diverse, a lot of people are looking at Asian Americans, whom many believe are a natural constituency for the party. I would love it if Asian Americans converted en masse to the Republican Party, but the challenge for Republicans is harder than many appreciate.

President Obama did spectacularly well with Asian Americans, garnering nearly three-quarters of their vote. This runs counter to a lot of conventional wisdom on both the left and the right. On average, Asian American family income is higher and poverty is lower than it is for non-Latino whites....