The current Iraqi P.M. Nouri al-Maliki supports Hezbollah and Hamas, just sent $10 billion dollars to Syria's Assad, runs the prison system the same way Saddam Hussein did, and he is pursuing an alliance with Iran. The democracy in Iraq resembles the democracy in Iran or Venezuela -- to the extent it functions at all. Iraq, unlike Iran, is not a consolidated nation state. Conservatives, unlike progressives, know that constitutional development, most notably private property, not democracy, leads to liberty. Shiite Sharia law, supported by Nouri al-Maliki forbids private property -- at least the way we understand it in the west.

So in other words, "the Surge" did not work. It was a press release issued in order to kick the can down the road by a President who was no more competent than Obama. It really is stunning to see some Republicans, hopefully a minority by now, continue to recycle this pitiful worn out argument. The invasion was a strategic error. You don't win strategic errors. The United States certainly will not be defeated. There is enough force projection in the Persian Gulf to turn any country in the area into a parking lot within 24 hours. The only people taking Barone's line are the people who don't want to accept responsibility for what the invasion has caused.

Hmmmmmmm Apparently Bill doesn't think Ronald Reagan was a successful President. I wonder how bill feels about Ronald Reagan's 10 most dangerous words: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

The consolidated nation/states of Japan and Germany were formed over hundreds of years. They were not tribal areas. We did NOT create nation/states for those peoples. In addition, Japan had a multi-decade Constitutional Monarchy phase known as the Meijee restoration which started in the 1860s. Germany had constitutional development going back hundreds of years to feudal Europe. The Militarists and Nazis only ruled for about 15 years. We introduced elections into two countries that backslid, briefly, and had long histories of constitutional orders Neither of those places are models for Vietnam or the middle east.

The current Iraqi P.M. Nouri al-Maliki just sent $10 billion dollars to Syria’s Assad, he support Hezbollah, and contrary to the idiocy being spouted by some, he is not under Iran’s thumb. He is pursuing an alliance with Iran. He refused to grant U.S. troops immunity after year's end. He is not an ally. We simply did not gain anything by going in there. The current Iraqi democracy is just like the Iranian democracy. You must be approved by an Islamic council in order to run for election -- which makes it pretty clear that the Green Movement isn’t what a lot of people think it is since the Islamic council allowed them to run in the first place.

I don't defend Democrats non-sensical statements in foreign affairs. But if you look at Vietnam from a real Conservative perspective, it made no more sense than Iraq. You are quite right that our troops did not "lose" in Vietnam. Military tactical victory was achieved by 1970. It would have been achieved sooner if Lyndon Johnson had not micromanaged military tactics from Washington. But then the same problems would simply have happened sooner. That is, there was nobody to hand the land over to. The was no real functioning South Vietnamese government. There was no real South Vietnamese army or police force. You had constant infiltration from within and without and that was not going to change.

At least Goldberg notes a difference between Conservatives who recognized this operation as a strategic disaster on the one hand, and isolationists on the other. Conservatives who recognized this invasion as a strategic blunder are not anti-war leftists either by the way. Although the reasons this was a strategic blunder are precisely because Goldberg's article is inaccurate. Iraqi Democracy, just like any other Democracy, is bad. The United States is a Constitutional society that uses Democracy to aid its Constitutional system. That requires a consolidated nation state and mature comprehensive private property rights. Iraq has neither, and Democracy will not help achieve those two variables. In fact it impedes it.

A pretty pathetic article isn't it? A country with no Navy and no Air Force that hasn't invaded anybody in 200 years -- although they did have to defend themselves from a Sunni Iraq. Which makes it obvious that the Iraq war was of no benefit to Israel anymore than it was us. Iraq's P.M. Nouri al Maliki refuses to recognize Israel, supports Hezbollah, and just sent $10Billion dollars to Syria's Assad. Contrary to being "under pressure" from Iran, al-Maliki the Shiite likes other Shites, and he like them more than us -- what a shock! What a nice return on our investment in blood and treasure.

Saw you're "10 points." Hilarious. Just to take a couple. "Eliminated Iraq as a training base/haven for terrorism" Hilarious, Sunni terrorists moved into Iraq after the invasion, and the current Iraqi government supports Hezbollah. "Recovered hundreds of tons of yellow cake" hilarious. What hogwash. "Inspired the first free elections in Egypt" Even if true, which it isn't, Conservatives understand that national elections are not helpful when they precede the development of private property institutions. It is Wilsonian liberals who make the delusional claim that Democracy spreads liberty. Our Founding Fathers made it more than clear that is not the case. All of your points are patently absurd.

"The philosophical divide between mainstream hawks and mainstream doves is hardly absolute." Hard to tell what the blathering Goldberg means by this. There are liberal interventionists in both political parties. Goldberg is one of them. These are the liberals who think democracy produces liberty and who emote on matters such as Iran rather than analyze. While it is understandable that such liberals have influence in the Democrat party, it is inexplicable why they have influence in the Republican Party. Conservatives who oppose them are not "doves." They believe in a strong national defense. They also recognize that Goldberg writes a lot of columns that are, shall we say, not well thought out.