In response to:

Leftists Admit They Want Big Tax Hikes on the Middle Class

Chukalukabus Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 12:49 PM
Let's cut to the chase here. There is a basic truth in economic theory and reality concerning sovereign tax rates... there is an optimum tax rate in which revenues peak. Anything less or more from this optimum rate results in less tax revenue. That rate is debatable, but the consensus is that it is somewhere in the 10 to 13 percent range. As we learned time and time again, is that tax policy is a leading cause of economic activity. It is the lag time most folks don't comprehend. Even if taxes were reduced to optimum levels there is going be a delay in the effects of said cuts. Revenues will go down for a short time until the free markets adjust. That is just simply the way it works. If you want less of something. Tax it more.
johninohio Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 11:14 PM
Business' biggest problem isn't taxes. It's regulations, and in some industries, labor unions. The EPA is probably the biggest anchor holding business growth and energy growth back.

Another barrier to economic growth is the educational system. The NEA and teacher's unions should be abolished so that schools can go back to teaching the important stuff, using methods that are tried and true.
faultroy Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 1:14 PM
Your comment is painfully simplistic and completely misses the point. The truth is tha there are so many loopholes and special concessions in our current tax law, that we don't know what the real rate is for people. In addition, we know that ultimately ALL taxes on businesses are passed along to the end user. So before we talk about what the optimum tax rate is, we should consider what people are paying now. For example, even if we lowered the tax rate for people it does not consider all the indirect taxes people pay when conisidering public utilities, telephone etc. In order to discuss an issue we need to know what we are talking about, and in this respect, we don't.
Selfmade707 Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 2:50 PM
Faultroy: This is exactly the type of thing that only serves to confuse the issue purposely to allow crafty and clever lawyer types to put wedges in between logic and fact. Space constraints here preclude me from getting down in the weeds with this to sufficiently explain this to you with your predisposed notion of indirect taxes and optimum tax rates, but my original premise still holds. You my disagree, but you haven't shown otherwise, only complain.
Richard31 Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 9:11 PM
We are quite aware of the "real" tax rates, faulty. Permanent welfare underclass = -100%. Wealthy Conservatives = 25%. Wealthy Regressive, not a "special friend" of Obama = 0%. Wealthy Regressive, "special friend" like Kaiser, Immelt, Soros = -30%. Middle class = 80%.
Richard31 Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 9:11 PM
And yes, those are minus signs.
Selfmade707 Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 12:59 PM
I don't mean to diss the founders, but they missed one important thing when setting up the government and that is a constutional requirement thet taxes could not go beyond 10% unless dire emergency or war, and then only temporarily not to exceed two years without special vote of the people (not congress), and even then, not to exceed 20%.
And the other one they missed was for a balanced annual budget.
The govenment must work within a given budget like we all do, not grow and grow until it colapses itself (and us) under it's own weight.
johninohio Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 11:05 PM
Actually, the Founders didn't establish an income tax. They called for tarriffs on imported goods to pay for the federal government, and this because they expected the fed gov't to remain small. The income tax replaced tarriffs with the 16th Amendment in 1913. It's true the Founders didn't require a balanced fed budget, believing that it would hamstring the government during periodic downturns in trade, or in emergencies.
johninohio Wrote: Aug 11, 2012 11:33 PM
This explains the problem better than I can as to why the economy isn't growing:

"http://intellectualconservative.com/index.php/economy-stalls-as-obama-targets"

While I disagree with statists, I sometimes admire their discipline. They are very good at staying “on message.”

I am 100 percent confident, for instance, that they intend big tax hikes on the middle class, even though they would piously swear an oath to the contrary. Indeed, I suspect more than 90 percent of them secretly would like a value-added tax.

It’s not that they necessarily dislike ordinary people, but privately they understand that you can’t finance big government by taxing rich people.

Simply stated, there aren’t enough of the “1 percent.” Moreover, rich people have...

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