In response to:

2012: When Dreams Died

carterthewriter Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 10:36 AM
The only difference between Nixon and Obama is the fact that the latter has the press on his side.He can do absolutely no wrong in their eyes.
Robert97 Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 12:46 PM
Benghazi and "Fast & Furious" seen to be worse than Watergate. If I remember correctly, no one died during the second rate burglarly.
ericynot Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 1:39 PM
Robert,

I'm not sure what makes a burglary "second rate", but 5 guys breaking into -- twice -- the offices of the opposition party in order to steal a national election seems pretty "first rate" to me.

And Watergate was much more than a simple, single crime. It was a series of misadventures run directly out of the Nixon's office by Nixon's own people. Benghazi and "F&F", though monumental screw-ups both, were not initiated by, directed by, nor is there any indication that they were covered up by Obama. Moreover, though incompent, there's been no evidence presented that either involved criminal activity, whereas Watergate was a series of clearly illegal activities in which Nixon was personally involved, either before or after the fact
Anominus Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 1:44 PM
Of course there's "no evidence" on Obama's part - he has plenty of cronies who are ready and willing to take a fall for him. They know that they will be bailed out when worse comes to worse. Additionally, the only reason things like Watergate were ever investigated in the past is because the press ensured that the public eye was kept on it. There is no such pressure on Obama's administration, and in all truth, the press has demonstrated its willingness to leap under the bus to preserve the leftist agenda.
Anominus Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 1:48 PM
Those "monumental screw-ups" can easily be classified as criminal negligence at the very least. All of these "flubs" have come at a cost of American lives, and can be linked back to Obama appointees. As such, Obama is culpable for their actions and is directly responsible. .
ericynot Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 2:13 PM
Anom,

Nixon went down in large part because Mark Felts ("Deep Throat"), the second in command at the FBI, rolled over on him. And because the Senate conducted a very public investigation of the Watergate swamp.

There are plenty of people in DC who don't like Obama. If any of them had real dirt on him about Libya or F&F, it would come out. And the Republican-controlled HoR would be more than happy to burn BO in hearings -- if they could.

As far as direct Presidential criminal involvement, Watergate's in a class by itself.
ericynot Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 2:26 PM
Anom,

As the guy at the top of the political food chain, Obama is responsible for all that happens in his government. But unless he gave specific instructions for Benghazi security staffing levels or for how to conduct the botched Arizona gun running sting, he is not "directly responsible". And if there is prosecutable criminal negligence in either case, it is not his. Unless, that is, some evidence I've not even heard hinted at comes to light. Do you have such evidence?

You can certainly blame him, but there's nothing with which to charge him.
Anominus Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 2:26 PM
Sorry, but no. Felt leaked his information to the media (Bob Woodward), which was more than happy to build public interest in the spectacle due to an already strong liberal bias. If someone like Felt existed today (and assuming he could have escaped the "purges" of the intelligence organizations) in that same position who in the media could he leak such information to that would curry the same sort of public outcry? No one, as the media is complicit.
ericynot Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 3:05 PM
Anom,

Oh, I don't know.... how about FOX News?

Sean Hannity would wet himself if someone came to him with an Obama "smoking gun" expose. So would Trace Gallagher, Megyn Kelly, TH's own Michael Barone, Steve Doocy, Greta van Susteren, and a few others I can think of.

And if FOX broke such a story, the rest of the mainstream media would have to follow suit.
Anominus Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 3:25 PM
And you really think that the 51% of people who voted for Obama watch Fox news or read TH, let alone trust the information put forward by them? Particularly when, as I said, the mainstream media is willing to run cover for Obama and his administration, even if it means falsifying the data. The rest of the media would either bury it, or simply ignore it, and no one would be the wiser.
ericynot Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 3:42 PM
Anom,

If FOX, in concert with a Republican HoR, couldn't make a strong enough case to impeach if handed smoking gun evidence, then the evidence just wasn't solid enough.

The major networks liked Bill Clinton, but they certainly didn't bury the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Juicy news trumps all other considerations in a for-profit news operation. It's all about the ratings ...
Anominus Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 4:12 PM
"If FOX, in concert with a Republican HoR, couldn't make a strong enough case to impeach if handed smoking gun evidence, then the evidence just wasn't solid enough."

Even a smoking gun isn't enough if the offender is a liberal - the Lewinsky scandal proved that. Additionally, it is impossible to reasonably deny the fact that media bias has increased greatly since the time of the Clinton administration.
Tim4693 Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 4:50 PM
I would contend that when the administration asserted Executive Privilege over the F&F documents, they effectively ended their chances to maintain distance from the F&F decision-making.
olddoc4444 Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 4:51 PM
No evidence? Maybe none that would stand up in court. Initially, I thought this whole "video" story was just to save the embarrassment, during a campaign, of a legitimate terrorist attack on Obama's watch. But with all the lying, blame shifting, phoney resignations, real resignations before scheduled testimony, phantom illness and "head injuries" etc, I am starting to believe that some criminal incompetence or worse is being covered up.
Lack of evidence does not equal exoneration. We may not put anyone of substance in jail, but we should be able to make judgements on the character and fitness of those involved
Frank391 Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 5:16 PM
He dim-wit, letting people walk with guns they are not purchasing for themselves is a federal offense. And the courts have long held that a government employee cannot break the law in order to enforce the law.

It was a second-rate burglary because they were caught in the act. Nixon's crime was covering up their crime. No different than what BO has done. He by claiming executive privilege on Holder's emails is covering it up. Ditto for the Benghazi coverup.
ericynot Wrote: Dec 27, 2012 6:01 PM
Frank,

Maybe there's an F&F coverup and maybe not. Did Obama personally know there were agents in Arizona allowing straw man purchases? There's been no evidence presented to suggest that. And there probably won't be because that operation was unlikely to have been high-level enough to warrant direct White House involvement.

Nixon, on the other hand, was the target of testimony by many of the people, including John Dean, the White House Counsel, directly involved in both the initial unlawful actions and the subsequent coverup. Then there were the audio tapes of Nixon telling his operatives how to conduct and fund the coverup.

And if you wish to insult me, at least spell it right. "Dimwit" is one word.
Roy323 Wrote: Dec 28, 2012 9:03 PM
Wayne-You say "You have lost, eric" Only on ONE of his facades; ynot is kinda like the Lon character (recently resurrected after a long sabbatical) He has been known to argue three opposing points simultaneously! I did, once, attempt to duel with ynot-No GO!

The year 2012 saw the triumph of cold reality over pie-in-the-sky dreams.

Barack Obama in 2008 won an election on an upbeat message of change in the hope that the first black president would mark a redemptive moment in American history. Four years later, the fantasies are gone. In continuing dismal economic times, Obama ran for re-election neither on his first-term achievements -- Obamacare, bailouts, financial stimuli and Keynesian mega-deficits -- nor on more utopian promises.

Instead, Obama's campaign systematically reduced his rival, Wall Street financier Mitt Romney, to a conniving, felonious financial pirate who did dastardly things, from letting the...

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