1 - 10 Next
"But I DON'T claim to prove anything absolute one way or the other about the Personhood of the fetus and when it becomes a Human Being. As a very wise and honest man once said, "That's above my pay grade." Only God knows that." Exactly! So why do you seek to override his judgement by assuming it can't be before 24 weeks? Sorry you can't have it both ways.
Flaming, your persistent clinging to this idea that the fetus isn't human at conception because some(and possibly many) fail to implant is plane silly and demonstrably false. How someone is treated by another in no way affects whether or not they are human or not. You know this is true yet you cling to your own hypocrisy.
Flaming, your persistent clinging to this idea that the fetus isn't human at conception because some(and possibly many) fail to implant is plane silly and demonstrably false. How someone is treated by another in no way affects whether or not they are human or not. You know this is true yet you cling to your own hypocrisy.
"The woman consented to have sex, nothing more. When I drive to work in the morning, I do not consent to be rammed by a drunk driver even though that is a possible outcome," But even as getting rammed is a possible outcome of driving into work, getting pregnant is a possible consequence of having sex. You might not like it, but you must accept that is possible and live with that consequence should it come to happen.
"I admit I've no clue when a Human Being begins to be present in a pregnant woman's body, because I'm not God. Can you admit these things, cardinal571?" Absolutey! And it is for this reason that I cannot but assume that life begins at conception. Any other 'guess' means a human being could be harmed because it is considered not human.
"I do not know what to call this other than willful blindness. You are literally controlling another persons body, no different than forcing them to pick cotton." If the woman voluntarily had sex, then she gave her consent to get pregnant - even if birth control was used. Its well established that pregnancy is a possible consequence of sex. Rape is more complicated because then she did not give her consent. Nonetheless, what I want you to understand is that using criteria such as failure to implant, inconvenience, and even rape tell us NOTHING about whether or not the fetus is fully human. Can you admit that?
Its also worth pointing out that 24 is based on our technological ability to keep the fetus alive outside the mother. So that isn't a valid way to rule if the fetus is human or not either.
'What you call "human at conception" really means "human when a woman wishes to abort it'" Yes! It IS human even if she wishes to abort it. Trying to say the fetus is not human because it fails to implant or is inconvenient is basing that determination on factors that are not intrinsic to it. Therefore that is fallacious reasoning. Trying to invoke slavery in this discussion is pure ridiculousness. No one is trying to enslave anyone in this discussion.
FLMC: "This is probably not going to satisfy you, but my sense of the scientific literature is that at 24 weeks there begins to be the chance of enough cerebral cortex present that there might be some thing at the other end of those nerves being stimulated by the painful stimulus that can say "ouch"." Let's focus on your use of the word chance. That implies that its possible for for the fetus to be a baby at 24 weeks or it might not be. Further that also implies that there is chance it could be a (fully human) baby even earlier than that. Shouldn't that mean we should err on the side of caution and assume its human at conception? You would advocate someone taking target practice a barrel someone told you has a chance of having someone in it?
So what exactly happens in that 4 week span to make a fetus a baby? What significant biological change has occured in that 4 week span?
1 - 10 Next