In response to:

'Zero Dark Thirty' Threatens the 'Bush-the-Incompetent' Narrative

Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:12 PM
These so-called "techniques" were and are legally and morally wrong. Thos who suggest lopping off body parts and similar techniques as an acceptable practice for "interrogation" should seek professional medical psychological assistance immediately: there's something deeply wrong with you. More importantly, these efforts were and are a tactical and strategic error for which all involved should be punished.
rrslack Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 2:09 PM
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 2:35 PM
See Arley2's post of 1155AM today.

So it appears that not only are you a rude p rick-you are the major moron in this thread. Feel free to wipe that smegma off of your chin and post something intelligent, if and when you can.

You have a nice day now.
midfielder2 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:40 PM
Nobody "lopped off" any body parts. Are you also saying that waterboarding is unacceptable "torture" but killing 16 year old kids with a drone is OK? Waterboarding works, get over it sleep deprivation works, get over it, it works and there is no physical damage left, plus you get actionable intel because the perp knows that if he lies you can come back and do it again.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 1:22 PM
Again, I didn't comment on this detainee's treatment. Waterboarding and similar techniques are legally and morally wrong. Targeting enemy combatants in the field is legally and morally right.

very little actionable intelligence is gathered by these illegal tactics-GET OVER IT-or go to jail.
ericynot Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 1:28 PM

Killing civilians with drones is NOT OK. Waterboarding is NOT OK. Obama, Cheney and all the rest of the gang who've turned this country into nothing more than a well-to-do banana republic should be charged with and tried for crimes against humanity, actions which are in violation of various treaties to which the United States is signatory.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 1:42 PM
The drone program does not target civilians-they are enemy combatants. The rules of war apply. Further, the treaties do not apply to these unlawful enemy combatants. It appears you don't know what you're talking about-have a nice day.
ericynot Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 2:19 PM

Says who? Obama? You trust Obama to make those decisions? You don't trust the government to make sound economic decisions, but you trust them to make sound murder decisions -- in secret?

An "enemy combatant" is defined as someone in the armed forces of a country with whom we are at war. We are not at war with Pakistan. At least one person killed in our dubious drone assassination program was a United States citizen. There is no possible way to legally justify his murder.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 2:33 PM
Says well-settled international law. I don't trust obama to do much-but as CINC he has the authority to direct targets be engaged. Sound economic decisions are made with the full review of the Congress. Sound military decisions are made in secret-because they are secret. Targeting enemy combatants is not murder. Your "definition" is incorrect. "Enemy combatant" is anyone who has taken up arms against you. Further, enemy combatants are not US citizens, but targets. Specifically, they are unlawful enemy combatants, and are subject to attack and death at any time. Not murder. So you are wrong-all day.
Ken6565 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:31 PM
Nobody was lopping off body parts. Waterboarding isn't even close to the same category. It got KSM to talk, and he remains in better health in our hands than he was when we caught him.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 1:19 PM
I didn't say anything about how this detainee was treated; I was commenting on an earlier post. Still, these tactics only fuel the fire and if the dirt bag is in better health today, this will serve as a non-deterrent to his hanging.
rickmcq Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:20 PM
So, " these efforts were and are a tactical and strategic error" which "Leon Panetta confirmed again that ... aided the effort to find bin Laden." I guess BigDog knows better ...
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:26 PM
Yes, I think I do.

I am sure Mr. Panetta is a nice man-but he hasn't demonstrated to me that he is any more bright than your average tomato.

Additionally, I haven't seen any credible evidence that any of this illegal c rap has led to anything.

More importantly, every time you do this, you give terrorists free recruiting material; creating multiple terrorists for every one you capture. This is self-defeating and stupid, and that's why you didn't think of it.
Tinsldr2 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:31 PM
Really? Have you read the CIA report that was published on it? We got a wealth of information from KSM after he was waterboarded.
rickmcq Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 12:34 PM
I do not agree that the Muslims fanatics require any "free recruiting material" so that argument does not move me.

You are welcome to continue to believe that you are brighter than the rest, and I will continue to disagree.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 1:16 PM
Yes. The information gathered established what had aleady happened, much of it in the long past. While this is important for building a knowledge base, there was very little actionable HUMINT garnered.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 07, 2013 1:16 PM
You are free to have your opinions-you are also free to put them in practice-or shut up.
In "Zero Dark Thirty," the movie about the killing of Osama bin Laden, one of the first scenes shows a terrorist being waterboarded, where useful information gets extracted. The movie thus asserts the controversial practice leads to actionable intelligence.

Not only was former President George W. Bush criticized for "authorizing torture," his critics argued that "torture doesn't work." During the 2008 presidential campaign, then-Sen. Barack Obama said: "Torture is how you get bad information, not good intelligence. ... No more secret authorization of methods like simulated drowning. When I am President, America will once again be the country that stands up...