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Extremely dishonest of you to frame the Biblical discussion in O/T terms. Let's shift to the New`Testament which superseded and fulfilled the O/T (as per the words of Jesus- Matthew 5:17-19). In Romans 1:26-28, the word of God specifically condemns homosexuality: "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper…" Or, 1st Corinthian 6:9: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.…" God hasn't changed His mind about homosexuality. It's STILL a sin that leads to death. To attempt to justify or condone the practice of sodomy from a Biblical standpoint is disingenuous (fancy word for LIE)
Ken, 2, the sophist, 0
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent me. Why do you not understand my speech? Even because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, you believe Me not. Which of you convinces Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do you not believe Me? He that is of God hears God's words: you therefore hear them not, because you are not of God." John 8:42-47 Those who reject truth will grab at any 'straw' to support their argument. They have no interest in TRUTH; all they seek is a 'cover' for their lies, sin and rebellion.
Darby, I think it's time you went back and re-joined the 'Little People'. Apparently, Darby, you are not a serious person when it comes to the discussion of Scripture, and you have no interest in a genuine, honest discussion about what God's word says about the Land of Canaan (i.e. Israel or ‘Palestine’), and who Scripture says are the legitimate owners of the Land. Instead, Darby, you are content (like your late, un-lamented predecessor, “Dreadnaught”- though, admittedly, you leaven your comments with some humor and are not nearly as determinedly ‘nasty’ as ‘Dread’ was) to issue insults and empty appeals to un-scriptural false authority to back your claims and arguments. In my post, I gave very specific Scripture, Darby, from both the Old and New Testament (Genesis 15 and 17 and Romans 11) that very clearly describes what God’s word says about the ownership of the Land, and the role of Israel in God’s program (God has NOT rejected His people or His covenant with them; He has ‘set them aside’ until the last of the Gentiles is brought into relationship with Him by faith in Jesus Christ). But in your response to my post, Darby, you chose very clearly and deliberately to IGNORE those scriptural references, but chose instead to engage in the above mentioned ad hominem attacks and appeals to false un-scriptural ‘authority’. Therefore, I conclude you are not a serious person, Darby when it comes to the discussion of Scripture, and suggest that it’s time for you to go back and re-join the ‘Little People’!
The land covenant ("to you and your seed I will give this land in an everlasting covenant") that God made with Abraham in Genesis 15 and Genesis 17 to promise Abraham and his seed the Land of Canaan in an everlasting covenant was an UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE. That means, "no strings attached". The Jewish nation has been chastised greatly by their God for over 2,000 years for two primary reasons: (1. for breaking the Mosaic covenant repeatedly prior to the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. The Mosaic covenant (unlike the Abrahamic covenant) is a conditional covenant (read the 'blessings' and 'curses' of Deuteronomy 28 to get an idea of just how CONDITIONAL the Mosaic covenant is!), and (2. (and more importantly) rejecting their Messiah, Jesus Christ, when He came the 1st time (except for a tiny remnant which became the Church of Jesus Christ). God, in His OMNIPOTENT foreknowledge foresaw the rejection of their Messiah by the Jews (please read Romans 11 VERY carefully), and provided a way of salvation thru Christ to the Gentile nations thru their rejection. God has NOT forsaken His people which He foreknew. The MIRACLE of Israel coming back into its own land, after 2,000 years of wandering, and being re-established as a nation in 1948 is, itself, a visible proof that God intends to fulfill ALL the promises He made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Instead of depending upon the teachings and traditions of men to form our world-view and our view of Biblical prophetic end time events, I suggest we begin to devour the Word of God like our life depended upon it!
Darby my Catholic friend: the land covenant that God made with Abraham in Genesis 15 and 17 was an UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE. That means, "no strings attached". The Jews have been chastised greatly by their God for over 2,000 years for two primary reasons: (1. breaking the Mosaic covenant repeatedly (the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities). The Mosaic covenant (unlike the Abrahamic covenant) was DEFINITELY conditional (read the 'blessings' and 'curses' of Deuteronomy 28 to get an idea of how just CONDITIONAL the Mosaic covenant was!), and (2. rejecting their Messiah, Jesus Christ, when He came the 1st time (except for a tiny remnant which became the Church of Jesus Christ). God, in His OMNIPOTENT foreknowledge, foresaw that rejection (please read Romans 11 VERY carefully), and provided a way of salvation to the Gentile nations thru their rejection. God has NOT forsake His people which He foreknew,.The MIRACLE of Israel coming back into its own land, after 2,000 years of wandering, and being re-established as a nation in 1948 is, itself, a visible proof that God intends to fulfill ALL the promises He made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Instead of depending upon your Church's teachings and traditions to form your world-view and your view of Biblical prophetic end time events, I suggest that you begin to devour the Word of God like your life depended upon it, Darby.
RockinRick says: "The great error on both sides is that neither side wants to acknowledge that the Land is home to the other side". WRONG. God gave the entire Land of Canaan, in an everlasting covenant, to Abraham and his seed. The 'seed' of Abraham comes thru Isaac and Jacob, the Jews, and ultimately culminates with JESUS CHRIST, the King of the Jews. Ishmael was assigned by God to live 'east of his brothers', not in the Promised Land. Israel (which by covenant promise will eventually stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates) belongs to the 'seed' of Abraham (the children of the PROMISE), not to the children of the slave woman.
"On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants (seed) I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates" Genesis 15:18 “I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants (seed) after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants (seed) after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” Genesis 17:7-8. All the worthless and pointless 'peace talks' since the Madrid Conference and the Oslo Peace Accords in the early 1990's have been absolutely futile and are but 'dust in the wind'. Those who believe God's word, the Bible, know that God gave the Land of Canaan to the Patriarch Abraham and 'his seed' in perpetuity (that means FOREVER). The parameters of the land stretch from the Nile River, in the west, to the Euphrates River in the east. And to clarify and 'set straight' the issue of WHO 'the seed of Abraham' is: the 'seed' of Abraham comes thru Isaac and Jacob, the JEWS- NOT thru Ishmael (Abraham's illegitimate child thru Hagar), the forefather of the Arabs. Ultimately, the 'seed of Abraham', according to the Bible (Galatians 3:16) is none other than JESUS CHRIST Himself- Who said, 'Salvation is of the Jews' (John 4:22). The God who created and upholds the Universe has guaranteed His promise will be fulfilled, even though hell, high water, and the devil attempt to thwart it. Those who laugh, mock, and scorn at God's word and promise, and come against Israel and attempt to oust it from the land God gave them will do so at great peril to themselves (that includes Jew as well as Gentile)- because it will be the God of Israel Himself they will be dealing with about this issue. God does not take kindly to the nations 'parting out' the land He gave to His people. God's promise to Abraham is STILL in effect: "I will bless them that bless you, and will curse them who curses you." Genesis 12:3
On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates" Genesis 15:18 “I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” Genesis 17:7-8. All the worthless and pointless 'peace talks' since Oslo are futile and but 'dust in the wind'. Those who believe God's word, the Bible, know that God gave the Land of Canaan to the Patriarch Abraham and 'his seed' in perpetuity (that means FOREVER). The parameters of the land stretch from the Nile River, in the west, to the Euphrates River in the east. The 'seed' of Abraham comes thru Isaac and Jacob, the JEWS- NOT thru Ishmael (Abraham's illegitimate child thru Hagar), the Arabs. The God who created and upholds the Universe has guaranteed His promise will be fulfilled, even though hell, high water, and the devil attempt to thwart it. Those who laugh, mock, and scorn and come against Israel and attempt to oust it from the land God gave them will do so at great peril to themselves (that includes Jew as well as Gentile)- because it will be the God of Israel Himself they will be dealing with about this issue. God does not take kindly to the nations 'parting out' the land He gave to His people. God's promise to Abraham is STILL in effect: "I will bless them that bless you, and will curse them who curses you." Genesis 12:3
"On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates" Genesis 15:18 “I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” Genesis 17:7-8 All these worthless 'peace talks' since Oslo are pointless, futile 'dust in the wind'. Those who believe God's word, the Bible, know that God gave the Land of Canaan to the Patriarch Abraham and 'his seed' in perpetuity (that means FOREVER). The parameters of the land stretch from the Nile River, in the west, to the Euphrates River in the east. The 'seed' of Abraham comes thru Isaac and Jacob, the JEWS- NOT thru Ishmael (Abraham's illegitimate child thru Hagar), the Arabs. The God who created and upholds the Universe has guaranteed His promise will be fulfilled, even though hell, high water, and the devil attempt to thwart it. Those who laugh, mock, and scorn and attempt to come against Israel and oust it from the land God Himself gave them will, in the end, do so at great peril to themselves- since it will be the God of Israel Himself that they will be dealing with about this issue. God's promise to Abraham is STILL in effect: "I will bless them that bless you, and will curse them who curses you." Genesis 12:3
Badda-bing, badda boom, Larry....right on.
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