In response to:

The Rich Don't Pay Enough?

amperro Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 12:49 AM
Although our tax code should be scrapped and replaced, raising taxes on the poorest 47% is going to cause problems. First, even a symbolic tax obligation (like 5%) can be devastating to someone living paycheck to paycheck. Second, why should 47% of the population agree to a tax increase? Would YOU vote for someone who wanted to raise YOUR taxes? No? Then why should 47% of the population? Better that we have a progressive bracketed consumption tax schedule.
JamesB2 Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 9:40 AM
The poorest 47% pay NO Fed/State income taxes!
Tacitus X Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 6:09 AM
Maybe one of the reasons they're living paycheck to paycheck is because of the economy crippling effects of government taxes and regulations. A national sales tax would give everyone a stake in keeping taxes low and spending efficient. Allowing some to vote to tax others is a death spiral.
Joseph64 Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 3:59 AM
Why should 47% of the population pay -nothing- towards the upkeep of government while the rest of us have to shoulder their share of the burden? If they want to live tax free, then maybe we should consider taking away some of the rights and privileges of citizenship in this country, starting with the right to vote.
MatthewlovesAyn Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 6:06 AM
Joseph: At the very least, the right to vote largess. For instance, teachers should not be allowed to vote for the Boards of Education, non-land owners for property tax levies, non-income tax payers for congress!
Scrap Iron in Texas Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 1:35 AM
The Fair Tax is what we need.
It IS porogressive, because of the prebate.

But the politicians would have to give uo their power to manipulate the tax code to favor their campaign contributors and the lobbyists.
Joseph64 Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 4:01 AM
No prebate for anybody. Every person living in this country should be paying taxes. NOBODY should be exempted.
karpe diem Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 1:32 AM
there is no country in the world that uses consumption as the basis for taxation. those believe in it believe a fiction, the rich can always control their consumption above necessities, so taxes collected will fall below the needs of the state. the rich, but also the not so rich, can also escape this kind of taxation by using bartering which totally escape taxation. even income is not always easy to trace and the gov't relies on people's honesty and verification by various forms to establish the income as close as possible. consumption tax will hit the poor harder than the rich in this type of taxation and it is harder for the poor to escape this tax.
Joseph64 Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 4:02 AM
Barter transactions do NOT escape taxation. Just ask the IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

"Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods and services received in exchange for goods or services you provide."
Joseph64 Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 4:04 AM
Why should the poor escape taxation when the rest of us have to pay? What gives them such privilege that is denied to the rest of us?
Capt-Call Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 5:46 AM
That is the law joseph but enforcing it on barter is next to impossible. It is one of those laws that create criminals out of ordinary working folks
Tacitus X Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 6:16 AM
Ridiculous argument that the rich will choose not to consume rather than pay a 10% national sales tax - the same rate as everyone else. The very rich live on accumulated capital, capital gains, etc., not "income" so they escape income taxes. What makes you think there is less cheating going on with our current byzantine tax system? With a 10% national income tax if John Kerry spends 100 times more than Joe the Plumber he pays 100 times more taxes -sounds fair to me. And if he's paying 100 times more, how is that "hitting the poor harder"? They should be grateful the rich are doing the heavy lifting.
Charles SWVA Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 6:58 AM
So, your argument is that Europe doesn't use the VAT tax, a consumption based tax, even though Europe does use, hugely, the VAT tax, a consumption based tax. Good logic Rachel.

Go get Neil Boortz' book about the Fair Tax, them come back and make your arguments. The rich sure do control their consumption, they buy none of the yachts, big homes, fancy cars, vacations, 2d homes, artwork, all of which would be subject to the retail tax..
amperro Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 9:02 AM
Yes, the rich could escape the tax if they lived like poor people. How many rich people control their consumption just above necessities? Even the middle and lower income don't do that. And bartering is unlikely to happen with high-figure items (who trades a mansion for a yacht)?
amperro Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 9:08 AM
Actually, nobody could escape the tax. Even necessities would be taxed, but at a lower rate.
Joseph64 Wrote: Aug 29, 2012 10:25 AM
And do you really think a billionaire is going to live like a welfare recipient just to escape paying the consumption tax? There is a reason why billionaires ARE billionaires, it is so they can afford to live better than the rest of us. That is not going to change if all federal taxes are replaced by a single consumption tax. They are not going to sell their multi-million dollar mansions and move into a scummy apartment in a crime ridden area or trade in their Rolls Royce for a Hyundai or their 200 foot yacht for a bass boat nor will they sell their private jet for the chance to fly coach (Oh Boy!) on a commercial airline. They are going to continue to spend money as they always have.
If you listen to America's political hacks, mainstream media talking heads and their socialist allies, you can't help but reach the conclusion that the nation's tax burden is borne by the poor and middleclass while the rich get off scot-free.

Stephen Moore, senior economics writer for The Wall Street Journal, and I'm proud to say former GMU economics student, wrote "The U.S. Tax System: Who Really Pays?" in the Manhattan Institute's Issue 2012 (8/12). Let's see whether the rich are paying their "fair" share.

According to IRS 2007 data, the richest 1 percent of Americans earned 22 percent of national personal income but...