In response to:

Gun Owners: Should We Listen to Bob Costas or Jesus Christ?

amonk7 Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 1:18 PM
In answer to Midfielder2's question about where I was getting my information about the almost complete pacifism of the early church I wrote The authoritative source on early Christian pacifism is "It is not Lawful for me to Fight" by Jean-Michel Hornus, a careful, scholarly, documented history of pacifism in the early church. The Church was mostly pacifist until the fall of Rome when Augustine created the Just War doctrine in part to get Christians to fight the invaders. Christians were being blamed for the fall of Rome because they refused to fight the invaders.
Birdman III Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 1:34 PM
There are some Christians who believe that salvation comes thru baptism, others believe that it comes thru fsaith in Jesus Christ. I will believe what I believe and they will believe what they believe.

I see no statement by Jesus the Son nor God the Father that states that I must not protect myself and my family.
Carlos_7 Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 1:39 PM
Early Christians were persecuted by Rome ...

It was not pacifism. Rome didn't want them in the Military. Nor did the Christians want to endure the requirements (worshiping Pagan Gods, rejecting Christ, etc.).
talltexanoilfieldtrash Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 2:00 PM
Birdman, I too believe we are saved by the grace of God, if we follow His teachings, He said, theu Christ, in various books of the Bible, we must first Believe in Him (believe his teachings are true) confess His Name before others (a public confession we are ready to follow Him) be baptised (not only as an act of obedience, but to symbolize washing our past sins away) and pray to Him for forgivness for our sins, thereafter ( He told us; we, as humans, are sinners and instead of the blood sacrifices the Jews were ordered to do in order to show remorse and ask for forgivness, we are to pray through The Son [Jesus the Christ], to The Father [God], fo forgiveness, and Jesus, since we have accepted him as our saviour,
talltexanoilfieldtrash Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 2:05 PM
continued;
will interceed with His Father for our forgiveness.
He also said that faith, without works(following the examples given by Christ)is dead (or useless).
amonk7 Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 2:29 PM
Jesus told us to be peacemakers, to turn the other cheek and to love and care for even those who do harm. The members of the early church took those precepts to mean to avoid harming another person in any circumstances. They believed it was spiritually better to die than to kill another person.

The early Christians were very courageous in following Jesus precepts. I have found very few modern Christians who are that courageous. Most modern Christians deny Jesus' precepts.
Birdman III Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 3:14 PM
He also said, "Get thee behind me Satan." and, "I knew you not." and, "Buy a sword." etc.
amonk7 Wrote: Dec 09, 2012 4:09 PM
Birdman, You need to look at the totality of what Jesus said. Over and over he preached mercy, forgiveness, love, developing a gentle spirit, being a peacemaker, turning the other cheek.

Selecting snippets of scripture to suit your beliefs is a way of avoiding Jesus' instructions on how to live.

As most of you know, during a football game last week Bob Costas lectured us po’ goofy Americans about the evils of a “gun culture” and how we need to evolve away from being obsessed with firearms. As soon as I heard that drivel roll off Mr. C’s tongue I ordered another 30/06, a sweet Walther PPK and a custom .416 Rigby turnbolt. Cowabunga, Bob. Thanks for reminding me to buy more guns.

First off, let me help you, Robert: Guns do not kill people. Dads with daughters do. Oh, and BTW, Planned Parenthood kills a lot of people...