In response to:

Who Killed the Middle Class?

Allan60 Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 4:39 PM
FletchforFreedom: "Except, of course, that OldMexicanBlog's point happens to be consistent with capitalism, basic economics and reality. It is the protectionists who have to deny facts." Ok, so answer the question then, what is it the workers of the USA are supposed to do to compete on a free trade field with the third world? Where are the growth sectors of the US economy? Reminder that service jobs are for the most part not exportable, and they therefore do not address trade imbalances.
BogusName Wrote: Feb 21, 2013 6:21 AM
"Reminder that service jobs are for the most part not exportable" That's what mass immigration is for.
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 5:26 PM
Perhaps the problem is that you keep referring to "trade imballances" as if they harmed the economy in any way. If a million jobs are lost to China in one place but 1.1 million are created in other areas, there is a NET INCREASE in jobs (this is how free trade has demonstrably worked in the real world without exception) even if NBC tells you only about the million jobs lost. If, on top of that, government regulation, government spending and taxes destroy another million jobs, it creates a net loss of 900,000 jobs (actually the toll has been much higher), but free trade has been responsible for NONE of the net loss.
BogusName Wrote: Feb 21, 2013 6:30 AM
Unfortunately those 1.1 million jobs are either government jobs or government contracted jobs for Green stuff that could never turn a profit on their own. Good job creating this mess free traders.
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 4:44 PM
The answer is what happens literally every day - the US worker competes by performing some OTHER job that is either more locally oriented, benefits from the much higher level of education in the US, has a different skill set, etc. This is how jobs are lost and created CONSTANTLY ("creative destruction") and will be the case again once the government allows the malinvestments to clear from the economy.

You keep acting as if a position that is complete BS - that the employment situation in this country is driven by trade policy rather than the massive interventions in the economy by government - is settled fact.

And there's nothing economically superior about manufacturing vs. services.
Allan60 Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 4:50 PM
Again, you mention an ill defined "other job". I'm asking for specifics, we know that there are a large number of unemployed people in the USA. Advise them on what the best course of action for them to take will be. And try to remember that not all of them will be geniuses, and those people need some way to earn a living as well.

Unemployment and offshoring of jobs driven by BOTH bad policy decisions and "free trade", I have never said otherwise.

There is something superior about manufacturing, it is that the product of your labor can be exported, services often cannot be shipped overseas. Someone in India might buy a car made in the USA, they have far less use for a US based lawyer, doctor, hair cutter, lawn mower, police officer.
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 5:05 PM
yes, you are making the common demand of the economically ignorant. That I cannot identify the specific job does NOT alter the fact that, as ALL of human history demonstrates, those jobs ARE created in a free economy any more than I can identify which molecule of water raised the level in the pool when i added another bucket.

Yes, there are a large number of unemployed in the US because of the government's job killing policies. The bestc ourse of action for thmet o take is to get the morons in government spending like drunken sailors, adding regulations and raising taxes out of office. Painting graffitti (or fighting free trade which accomplishes as much) will avail them nothing.
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 5:07 PM
Your continued attempt to blame free trade for unemployment suffers only from being factually wrong, completelyd isproved and economically ignorant. Otherwise, it's wonderful as a fairy tale to tell demented children but of very little real use.

Further economic ignoarnce is demonstrated by yourc omments about manufacturing. It makes no difference whether servces can be "exported". THe ONLY economic issue is the creation of VALUE (which must be the case or there would be no market for it). you have a bizarrely overblown concept of the relevance of interbational trade.
Allan60 Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 4:44 PM
Remember that you can't just tell poor people that it's their own problem to try to become economically viable, if you don't offer them some reward to participate in the system then they have nothing to lose by tearing it down.
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 5:29 PM
I am not trying to tell "poor people" anything. I am doing nothing more than advocating the system that has always made them better off. I could, instead tell them that black is white, the good fairy can make their poblems go away and free trade is bad but I would be lying may posterior off. Instead, by advocating what actually works (capitalism and free trade) rather than painting pretty pictures for them and teling them what they might like to hear (no matter how idiotic), I push for a system that will make them better off whether they believe it or not without worrying about "tearing it down" fantasies.
Daddio7 Wrote: Feb 19, 2013 8:14 PM
American workers have to compete with Indian workers who make $1400 a year. And this makes our country stronger how?
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Feb 20, 2013 8:31 AM
American workers find other jobs as the resources freed up by consumers getting more products at lower prices create MORE and HIGHER PAYING jobs. This isn;t speculation - it is proven FACT.
BogusName Wrote: Feb 21, 2013 6:26 AM
Last time I checked prices have gone up, particularly in imports like oil. The only thing that has not gone up in price (relative to income/inflation minus fuel/import costs) and/or improved in quality while prices remain constant are Made in America items like food and PC core processors.
"It is our generation's task, then, to reignite the true engine of America's economic growth -- a rising, thriving middle class."

So said Barack Obama in his State of the Union.

And for one of his ideas to reignite that engine, Republicans applauded.

"And tonight, I am announcing that we will launch talks on a comprehensive Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership with the European Union -- because trade that is free and fair across the Atlantic supports millions of good-paying American jobs."

One wonders if any of those in the hall who rose robotically at the phrase "free and fair" were...

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