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Wednesday, January 17, 2007
Michelle Malkin :: Townhall.com Columnist
What I Saw in Iraq
by Michelle Malkin
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What would you rather watch?

Last week, I embedded with U.S. Army troops at Forward Operating Base Justice in northern Baghdad. Outside the wire, we toured the slums and met with neighborhood leaders inching toward self-sufficiency in al Salam. We sipped chai with a sheikh who condemned terrorists on all sides. We watched residents bicker over a civil affairs blanket drop in Khadamiyah. We sat with slimy Mahdi Army apologists in Hurriya. We stopped by a Sunni insurgent enclave, which soldiers I patrolled with dubbed a "sniperville," in al Adil.

There's nothing glamorous or romantic about these missions. No one will make a movie about our men and women in uniform engaged in the tedious, painstaking business of moving Iraq toward stability and governability. But if the war is to be won -- if security is to be established and the foundations of a civil society bolstered -- this is ground zero. The troops I met ask only three things of their fellow Americans back home: time, patience and understanding of the enormous complexities on the ground.

In Washington, counterinsurgency theory (COIN) is a neat, elite intellectual abstraction. Since coalition forces simply can't catch and kill every insurgent lurking in the populace, the theory goes, it's up to the military to persuade the Iraqi people to turn on the insurgents, join the political process and help themselves. At FOB Justice -- former headquarters of Saddam Hussein's ruthless military intelligence unit, the site of the dictator's execution by hanging and home to the Dagger Brigade 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division -- COIN is a vivid, hands-on reality. Here, a task force of brainy commanders, brawny patrol officers, courageous Arab-American interpreters, wizened trainers and intel gatherers, baby-faced convoy drivers and grim-humored gunners attempts to put President Bush's "winning hearts and minds" idealism into daily practice.

Modern war in the Middle East is no longer as cut-and-dried as shooting all the bad guys and going home. We are fighting a "war of the fleas" -- not just Sunni terrorists and Shiite death squads, but multiple home-grown and foreign operators, street gangs, organized crime and freelance jihadis conducting ambushes, extrajudicial killings, sectarian attacks, vehicle bombings and sabotage against American, coalition and Iraqi forces. Cell phones, satellites and the Internet have allowed the fleas to magnify their importance, disseminate insurgent propaganda instantly and weaken political will.

I came to Iraq a darkening pessimist about the war, due in large part to my doubts about the compatibility of Islam and Western-style democracy, but also as a result of the steady, sensational diet of "grim milestone" and "daily IED count" media coverage that aids the insurgency.

I left Iraq with unexpected hope and resolve.

The everyday bravery and consummate professionalism of the troops I embedded with have strengthened my faith in the U.S. military. These soldiers are well aware of the history, culture and sectarian strife that have wracked the Muslim world for more than a millennium. "They love death," one gunner muttered as we heard explosions in the distance while parked in al Adil. Nevertheless, these troops are willing to put their lives on the line to bring security to Iraq, one neighborhood at a time.

They have teamed with Sunni and Shia, Iraqi civilian and soldier alike to establish local government structures and security framework districts. "We are not here to build the Iraqi Security Forces," Lt. Col. Steven Miska, deputy commander for the Dagger Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, said. "We're here to grow them. You can't just plant and walk away." Capt. Aaron Kaufman of Task Force Justice added: "It's not a six-month or year-long process, especially when you're talking about training the Iraqi forces."

The troops I met scoff at peace activists' efforts to "bring them home now." But they are just as critical of the Bush administration and Pentagon's missteps -- from holding Iraqi elections too early, to senselessly breaking up their brigade combat team, to drawing down forces and withdrawing last year in Baghdad and Fallujah, to failing to hold cities after clearing them of insurgents. They speak candidly and critically of Shiite militia infiltration of some Iraqi police and Iraqi Army units and corruption in government ministries, but they want you to know about the unheralded good news, too.

Every day, Iraqi Army trainees risk their lives and their family's lives to come to work at FOB Justice. Residents of Khadamiyah approach the base with tips. Schools are re-opening; neighborhood councils are sharing intelligence. "All those things are coming together," Capt. Stacy Bare, civil affairs officer, said emphatically.

Winning the counterinsurgency battle is not just about keeping Iraqis safe. It's about keeping Americans safe -- by sending a message that the mightiest military in the world cannot and will not be outwitted and outlasted by the fleas. On the emblem of the Dagger Brigade are two imperatives: "Continue mission!" and "Duty first." These troops are committed to their mission. They deserve our commitment to them.

***

Michelle's embed tour in Iraq, with her HotAir.com colleague Bryan Preston, was sponsored by the New York Post. Video reports of their Iraq journey can be viewed at HotAir.com.

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About The Author

Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .

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©Creators Syndicate
Support the Troops: Continue The Mission
Terrific article, Michelle.

Well done Michelle!
And your right! I wish you could make a documentary of all this. We know that we would be seeing and hearing the truth.

Yeah, but...
...what's the answer to the question on the tips of all our tongues ... "Did you talk to Jamil Hussein?"

Where's Waldo er, Jamil ?
I thought that was part of it or have you just given up on the AP being a legit "news" agency?

Anyway,there can be no doubt that quitting is not what Americans do best.We used to be best at winning.It's time we get back to our winning ways.I know you can't run a military operation as a democratic happening,but I would like to know just how much if any input from the guys doing the bleeding is ever recieved/considered by CentCom,let alone Washington.

For what it's worth to all of you "bring 'em home now" types,does it matter that the American Fighting Man knows it's a righteous mission and that he can win it given the time and support from the American public and gov.?

tanabear
my my your name should be anti-american, or at least go insurgents (really terrorists).....I have seen your posts for months, and I have yet to see anything positive from you, nothing, nada, zilch....your glass is half empty for sure.....take your pessimisiom elsewhere, like kos where it will be enjoyed and even applauded

no consultation? right......
an american liberal writes: Wednesday, January, 17, 2007 1:30 AM
Be honest
Does anyone believe her objective when she says statements like "I left Iraq with unexpected hope and resolve." I love optimism, but it's not a glass being half full or half empty scenario anymore. Now it's just a blame game to see who dropped and shattered the glass. Since few if any liberals were consulted, this turd of a war can't be laid in our lawn. This is a white house turd all the way.


forgot everyone voted for the war? both libn and repub? the entire world had the same intel....oh yea that was then this is now......long enough people will forget right?

Thank you Michelle
for this wonderful article. I am grateful you were willing to risk your life to being readers back a kernel of truth, so desperately missing from all the AP mainstream media baloney which we are inundated with on a daily basis. Our troops are grateful to have someone such as yourself representing them and the Iraq mission.

Pitbull,
You are right, you are not alone. I have never been asked to answer any polls, which makes me wonder WHO exactly are being asked these poll questions in the first place (like do they purposely target registered Democrats or what?) Sure seems that way.

Michelle
did a good job of writing an honest column depicting not only the good, but the hardship.
I support the troops along with the others here.
I just wish everyone did; it would make things go a whole lot better.


pitbull
I forgot I wanted to say the same thing. I never have been polled about my opinion. It does make me wonder just who these people are who get called.

Michelle in Iraq
After reading Michelle's report and several letters from soldiers this week it makes me glad i'm not a dried up brain dead liberal. No hope in life for those folks. I'd b**** slap any member of my family that spouted the liberal progressive line. Yes some are 'old time democrats' that still think they are voting for the old time democrat party. One by one they are coming to realize that the old time democrat party is dead and dried up like the liberal progressives.

Pitbull....
...same here, no one has ever consulted me for a poll. And I've never met anyone who's been polled, have you?

Tanabear...
... you are growing very tiresome & pitiable.

my 2 cents
I hate to agree with a liberal but the fact is that the conduct of the war is a Republican turd. Whether or not the dems supported the war beforehand is not really a factor anymore.

I have no doubt that our troops have done and are still doing a lot of good over there but the argument can also be made that our mere presence there is causing SOME of the violence. Of course there is only one way of knowing if this is true.

There is no easy way out of this

nitty gritty, part 253
There is a difference between leaving an Iraq in place that can defend and govern itself and is not a sanctuary for terrorism, and a "democratic" Iraq.

The former goal might still be attainable.

Michelle said nothing about her experience in Iraq that would assuage her "doubts over the compatibility of Islam with Western-style democracy", to use her phrase.

Most of Michelle's column dealt with the need for security in Iraq. That is the crucial issue.

I see nothing wrong with this article. I too wish for an Iraq that can sustain itself, is not a haven for terror, and is not a threat to its neighbors.

But nowhere in Michelle's piece did I see any confidence on the prospect of Islam's compatibility with democracy.

Perhaps security is a prerequisite before democracy can flourish.

But given the history of Islam, Sharia law, the actions of muslim immigrants to Europe, I still see no evidence that Islam is compatible with democracy.

Some cite Turkey as a "democracy". But it is far from it. The European Union won't allow Turkey admission, largely due to its abysmal human rights record. And historically the military has exerted the real power in Turkey, not its legislature.

I still believe the messianic vision of this president in attempting to democratize the muslim world will more likely result in radical Islamists being voted into power, than moderate leaders who believe in tolerance.


To tanabear and american liberal
You are disgusting defeatists, that's all, without any feeling for the professionalism of out troops and without consideration of the larger stakes involved.

Tanabear, you call Iraq a "basket" case. Whatever word you use, however, Iraq is now a young democracy, whose people voted three times to adopt a written Constitution and elect a government. And before using any term for the whole country, you need to recognize that that there are parts of Iraq that are safe. The Kursish north is doing well, and the south is generally peaceful, too. The problems have been in Baghdad and al Anbar province. But what do you think Iraq was under Saddam's murderous regime? Or would you prefer the dictatorship of Saddam and the rape and torture rooms of Saddam's sons to be still in operation? And that the Kurds be subject to a ruler who would gas them killing the thousands? And that there be torture and killings of hindreds of thousands in the enforcement of Saddam's dictatorial rule? As for who we are now fighting, we are fighting people who kill innocent people by use of terror and who want a radical Islamist regime; is that your preference too?

American liberal, don't be so fast about saying liberals weren't consulted. Did you forget that regime change in Iraq was the policy of the Bill Clinton Administration? And that some of the strongest quotations from people about Saddam having WMDs were Bill Clinton and John Kerry? More importantl;y, what makes you think that the hope felt by Michelle after visiting Iraq wasn't well justified? Michelle is relying upon what she saw first hand and what her experience was with our troops. Are you relying upon your daily reading of the badly biased New York Times, the paper of treason? As for me, I go with the first hand observation and our troops. But then with my older son as a US Army Lieutenant serving in Iraq, I know why Michelle came away with the feelings of hope and resolve that she did.

phil byler
I agree with parts of your post. Certainly the democrats were consulted and voted on the resolutions permitting military action in Iraq.

And it probably is true that most of the problems are in Baghhad and Anbar province. And much of the Kurdish north is relatively free of violence.

But, as Baghdad goes, so goes Iraq. It is its heart. And the Kurds already have an autonomous province where it is the Kurdish flag, not the national flag of Iraq, that flies. They view themselves as Kurds, not Iraqis. They are not even Arabs, unlike most their Iraqi brethren.

I understand some Kurdish military units are being directed to Baghdad, to "assist" the Shia in taking on the Sunnis. But this is a recipe for more sectarian warfare, not less. When two of the three major groups in Iraq gang up on the remaining one in open warfare, is that the democratic process at work?

I don't believe Islam, as it presently exists, is compatible with the values of a democracy.

I strongly urge you do do an aol search "treatment of Christians in Iraq", and read some of the articles. It is enlightening.

Many believe that the present "democratically" elected government of Iraq is more oppressive and hostile to what few Christians remain there, than was Saddam.

Further, Christians are fleeing the "fledgling democracies" of both Lebanon and Iraq...you know, the democracies our president lavishes such praise upon. They are fleeing them due to oppression.


Writing outside of the green zone?
Can you imagine! A writer that got out of the safe green zone to write what is real not what the boss back in the states wants to push! Pictures of the dead and blown up cars sell soap. Not the stories of building a nation and its people to understand and want to defend it against terrorists, knowing that quite a few will die as patriots as has happened in history of places that fought against the tyranny of the few.

Read U.S. history, if it hasn't been rewritten to eliminate the evidence of real patriotism,not the cut and run kind.


Hmmmmmm
Michelle Malkin is correct on many issues but she does not have the knowledge and background to determine whether our soldiers are able to bring order to Iraq or not. Her little escapade is more like a modern day Potemkin village project.

I have to agree with Jerubaab
This is a fools errand. Islam and democracy are deeply incompatible at this point, as Islam has never been through a Reformation. Right now, Shia and Sunni are more interested in extermination of each other then recognizing each other's political rights, and the longer we put off their internal civil war, the more casauties we will incur. An essay on that subject...

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010807B

"Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a limited-access order, or "natural state." NWW claim that such states resist the change to open-access orders. They resist our attempts to stimulate economic development, because true economic development requires fair competition, which threatens the privileges that are the stabilizing element in limited-access orders. Although NWW do not discuss "nation-building," it seems reasonable to infer that they would take an equally dim view of that notion.

Iraq was never on the "doorstep" of becoming an open-access order. The major factions are not willing to give up their weapons and concede military power to a central coalition. There are no perpetual-lived organizations that can make long-term contractual commitments. There is not even a willingness among factions to grant one another rights under the rule of law.

Accordingly, I would say that there is no chance that the United States will succeed in its objective of establishing an open-access order in Iraq. The best we can hope to do is restore Iraq to a natural state, meaning a limited-access order where rights and power are exclusive to certain elites, who will be subject neither to economic nor political competition as we know it."

I have called for a troop surge in the past, but what the President has proposed is insufficient, and I have no confidence in the government of Nouri al-Maliki to do anything but continue to be corrupt, sectarian and fawning sychophants of the murderous Mahdi Militia under al-Sadr.

From The National Interest Online...

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=13414

In an interview with National Interest online editor, Ximena Ortiz, Boyd says the uniformed brass has long tried to communicate to its “political masters” the limited utility of the military instrument in Iraq.

Boyd, a highly decorated four-star general, was a combat pilot in Vietnam, where he was shot down and survived 2,488 days as a prisoner of war. He was deputy commander-in-chief of U.S. forces in Europe.

Excerpt...

NIo: If you were to offer your own plan last night, what would the bullet points or main parameters of that plan be, in light of the fact that you don’t feel that a Vietnam-style withdrawal is possible, but you also don’t see a purely military solution being feasible in Iraq?

Gen. Boyd: I would not leave the region. I would not even threaten to leave the region. The idea that by threatening to leave the region will cause the political players to become sufficiently frightened that they will get their act together politically—I don’t necessarily believe that. I would stay in the region because we cannot afford this to become a regional conflict, but we might need to back away from the center of the conflict and let that fire burn, while keeping our troops in the north and perhaps on the southern border. And there is much that we can do, to keep both Iran and their Sunni neighbors from coming in massively to augment that conflict between the Shi‘a and the Sunnis. To let the fire burn in the center—this is an Arab conflict; it’s not Kurdish conflict; it’s an Arab-Sunni-Shi‘a conflict—and let conflict burn itself out.

who's spinning?
For years, you folks on the right have been complaining about the supposedly 'eft-leaning bias. You've been accusing them of only telling the bad news.

When are you people going to wake up and realize that the MSM is giving it to us straight. The fact is: There is way more bad news than good news. And when are you going to realize that all of the cheerleaders for this war, like the neocons, and the Pragers and the Medveds are the ones doing all of the spinning? If all of our reporters over there were like Michelle Malkin, we would all be assuming that, while it's a tough slog, everything was going great over there, and with just a little more effort, the war will soon be won.

Do you people really want our reporters to be cheerleaders? Or do you want them to give it to you straight?

Seriously, I want to know. It seems to me that most of the posters here at Townhall want them to be cheerleaders. Am I right?

I have to go to work, but I'll check back later for responses.

Phylo out.

tanabear and liberal are quitters
tanabear and liberal are nothing new.
there were plenty of hitler apologists during WWII, carrying the reich's water here at home.

the same old story. they don't mean us any harm. if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone.

do either of them even know any military? i know plenty. 2 cousins and several nephews are over there right now and they believe in their mission.

too bad tanabear and co don't have even a smidgen of the guts these brave soldiers have.

i hope
Malkin popped in to see her friends at Associated Press. Although presumably that would only have happened with a military escort as well, and deservedly so.

phylo

We don't want cheerleaders, but neither do we want nihilists. Too any in the nedia are the later.
I prefer hearing Geraldo Rivera or Oliver North than Wolf Blitzer.
Rivera and North dod get far enough into the field to get shot at instead of filing their dispatches from the balcony.

what about...?
Hillary and her entourage..? I am sure she is seeing the same things....will she be giving a dissertaion about her findings?
Betting she is telling another story...all to get her elected to the WH. I thought this was a good and truthful article...but the libs on the site are suffering so badly from BDS that they will never see the forest for the trees. When, and if, the dems assume the WH in '08 you will see a different take on this. All of a sudden we will be winning the war and doing all kinds of good things. It is just politics as usual....and don't ever forget BDS....they will hate this man till the end....The ruling Democrats are a very sick bunch...power is their GOD and Republicans stand in the way of complete access to this power. They will demonize anything this president does. The have no clue what keeps us free and safe....if they did, 9/11 would never have happened and, in fact, would have been taken care of during the Clinton administration. But we all know how busy Bill was, keeping his zipper going up and down, so therefor had no time to worry about that little thing called national security.

Can you imagine if phylo and tanabear
were around after the American Revolution, so ready to give up after a few years when it took nine years to draft a Constitution the colonies could agree on?

Or maybe the Civil War? Neither of these two would have what it takes to see the difficult effort through when more men were dying daily than have died in Iraq and Afghanistan combined going back to Desert Storm?

It is clear, regardless of the debate, that one side is willing to take on the Sisyphean tasks of this world to prove they can be done. That is the American spirit.

The alternative is pathetic crap.




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When the revolution comes will you be on the side that knows how to use their guns and fight for their beliefs? Or the side that knows how to make cute signs and costumes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

another perspective.....
Thanks, Michelle.
The Libs on this site as well as in this country would not think your perspective is worth hearing or writing about. Frankly, it smacks of of squashing freedom of speech.
Yours is simply another perspective----and one I have not seen, heard or read about in the most visible media sources today.
IS YOUR WORD THE FINAL WORD? I think not.
However, it is valuable input to the barrage of information pelted at us from traditional sources.
And, it is clear that your word is poison to many visiting this site and lurking within our country. Keep up the good work.
You GO girl.......................

lest you all forget...
how many yeaars did it take for this brand new democracy in America to knit together and become one nation? How many years of violence did Americans endure to rid itself of the slave trading and outright bigotry against blacks? Both side of this struggle have wanted an instant success, the Hiroshima effect. Drop one and it's over. Then clean it up. The terrorists have patience on their side, we've already lost that battle with our instant news flashes, instant commentaries and spin and the endless quarterbacking from everyone with a keyboard. Patience folks, it'll be a while.

MSM bias?
If anything, certainly from a commentating point of view, the mainstream media is biased to the right. Take a look at the biogs of Townhall writers - Cal Thomas gets his columns in 400 newspapers. That's 400. Not enough for you? Malkin is syndicated to over 100 papers nationwide. The ubiquitous Robert Novak has more homes than a hobo and Coulter... well, she's hard to escape, put it that way. While it is true that most hacks aren't right wingers, there is an undeniable right wing bias in commentary. Those of you who are still moaning about the mainstream media should include most Townhall contributors - they are more mainstream than the overwhelming majority of left wing commentators.

Cal Thomas
Sorry, upon checking Cal thomas it appears his pearls of wisdom are carried in 540 newspaper and publications around the globe. Talk about milking it for all it's worth...

What me worry?
Hows that winning hearts and minds stuff working out? I like the winning hearts and minds we did at Hiroshima. Thats how you win a war. We are doomed to be humiliated by lesser opponents until we are ready to kill them before they infiltrate us and kill us.

Pitbull
Fool I may be, but that's not a particularly good counter argument. As I said, the majority of hacks aren't right wingers, but the majority of commentators are. Name a left winger with 540 newspapers and publications carrying their work. That's a tough one... I won't hold my breath.

FREEDOM of HAPPY SPEECH
Michelle, You are charmed and truly fortunate.
Most observers aren't seeing the hope and promise of Iraq.
Instead they focus on our 3000+ American Soldiers who have died and the other 20,000+ Maimed sons and daughters who will need our care for the rest of their lives.
Or they just see the $400+BILLION$$ spent in Iraq that will never find its way to an American School.
Oh How Negative. Keep the Fun Alive, Girl!!!

Critical Bill
cites a lack of "Media Bias" in the REPORTING OF THE NEWS by the typical liberal subterfuge of citing OPINION COLUMNS written by conservatives that are given space in the MSM newspapers.

Where did the liberals get the idea that there is no difference between OPINION and NEWS? Could it be...from the New York Times?

If you want an interesting perspective on this Microwave Culture's demand that everything be solved in under an hour, get some copies of Life Magazine and the Saturday Evening Post written in the mid to late Forties and compare the whining about how Japan and Germany were NEVER going to be democratic allies and we could NEVER rebuild Europe and we were FAILING ... until of course we succeeded.

And by the way, it's been more than SIXTY YEARS since World War II and we still have troops in Germany. Why isn't Cindy Sheehan protesting that? Or doesn't she know about it?

BILL , you said,
"Name a left winger with 540 newspapers and publications carrying their work. That's a tough one... I won't hold my breath".

Why is that Bill? We live in a free market society, publishers can hire any writers they want. To say the printed press is right of center is a huge stretch, they do have to sell papers though.

I think americans are optimists, and having too many randy rhodes, or al frankens' is just a non seller. We do not like negativity against america, or the way the country is going PC.

It may also be that left leaning types do not buy enough print editions to have an influence, or there arent enough left wingers period! After all Bush was elected twice.

Just a thought.

11h

Pitbull
Now that's a real reply. I accept that there is a difference between editorial and news. However, the "media" includes both. It has to - a paper, tv show or radio show, all of which are also "media" is defined by its editorial slant. No matter how many left wing journalists work for the London Times, it is a right wing paper because of its leaders. The same applies to The Washington Post, or the New York times on the other side. News reportng is a huge part of the media; but so is commentary. A ever-increasing slice of today's news is discussion and commentary... in fact you could argue that commentary has never had such a significant role in news coverage as it has today.

May I suggest that you all peruse

Strategic Military Blunder...
of epic magnitude. That's what this national disaster of a man and his mis-administration has given our Republic. He's bungled two wars in six years and has designs on a third.

11h
You hit the nail on the head. Journalists are overwhelmingly left leaning. Publishers, on the other hand, are not. The ownership of media across the globe is predominantly right wing and corporate; the trouble is, and for them it must be incredibly frustrating, their employees are overwhelmingly left wing. Now if they would pay hacks a decent wage perhaps things would change!

For critical bill
You define the msm outlets by their editorial slant,(we will skip the opinion stuff for now) I define it by its reporting slant. Since the left wing journalists report the "News" with their bias twists. Opinion is just that, and with the possible exception of the WSJ Op/Ed page all outlets have a mix of con/lib opinion writers that they use. Look at the editorial sgement by itself and you will see that defines the outlet stance. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle, picture selection and placement, headline wording, too much is scare the weak, ignorant and liberal to guide them to "correctness" The war is bad, Global warming, Racism, it sells!!!!!

Pitbull
I don't keep a record of good news that I read, but wasn't there an inspirational story last week some time about a complete stranger rescuing someone off the subway line in New York? Or about the woman who gave birth yesterday after her fertislised eggs were washed away in Katrina? Good news does, believe it or not, make the papers. Barack Obama to run for president - now there's some good news and it was in all of the papers! but come off it - the truth is that, sadly, bad things are more "newsworthy" than good and vastly outnumber the "good" too. As for who I want to win "this war", I don't know which one you mean. The war in Iraq is already won from a military point of view. It's winning the peace that is proving to be rather more difficult.

put em up...put em up...
"Does anyone believe her objective when she says statements like "I left Iraq with unexpected hope and resolve." I love optimism, but it's not a glass being half full or half empty scenario anymore. Now it's just a blame game to see who dropped and shattered the glass. Since few if any liberals were consulted, this turd of a war can't be laid in our lawn. This is a white house turd all the way."

If you'd been consulted would it have made a difference? Whether you run now or later wouldn't make a difference. Whether you accept defeat now or later wouldn't make a difference. Whether you give aid and comfort to our enemies now or later wouldn't make a difference. Whether you run from the fact that there are real enemy & evil forces that want to see our demise now or later wouldnt make a difference.

My point is this had you been consulted it wouldn't have made a difference because your answer is always the same...Negotiate your way/give up/surrender out of a war in attempt to get every country in the world to like us. We already know this answer. This is why you weren't consulted...Oh but you were consulted and it was a unanimous decision(at least by your government constituents) to go to war!

And yes I believe her to be very objective...
More objective than the New York communist times.
More objective than CNN(Communists National News).
More objective than any other news organization that hate America and wants to see here defeat and demise.

Critical Bill
"Barack Obama to run for president - now there's some good news..."

Good news for the right! haha.

That clown voted FOR the Senate Amnesty Bill back in May 06. Check out my blog for an analysis of what that is gonna cost us.

And speaking of irrevelevant, Spain issued an arrest warrant for three GI's.
(http://ebird.afis.mil/ebfiles/e20070117481717.html)

Spain, like France, couldn't fight their way out of thick FOG and they think that they'll arrest 3 GI's. I would LOVE to see them try.




tanabear
The fact that you get your "news" from Iraq only from cowardly MSM types who huddle in their fancy hotel rooms when they are assigned to Iraq is merely another nail in the coffin of zero credibility you reside in.

Excellent Report
Michelle, you get an "A" on your report. This is by far, the best article that I've read from you to date.

I also agree, that I've never been polled and neither has anyone of my friends or family. I too wonder where the pollsters come up with their data. Seems rather skewed to me.

Gunny
I was getting worried for a bit - I thought that a day might pass without you shouting about something or other...

Faux Fox News
They slant, you decide. Some more of the left leaning media the hyper harpies of the rabid right are always whining about.

Michelle "Pollyanna" Malkin
Aw shucks, I think it's sweet that while under uber-protection in the Green Zone she still wholeheartedly believes that there is a "counterinsurgency battle" looming that is about "keeping Americans safe" -- because, basically, we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here...

The big embedded adventure and this is all we get? The same ol' bone-headed theory that can't be proven one way or another?

You all fall for the biggest bull.


Malkin Is As Delusional
as Ann Coultergeist who stated that Bush's ineptitude in Afghanistan was going "swimmingly". Swimmingly if you are talking about the victim of a Tsunami.

tbmbuzz
Where did you get to learn so much about how "cowardly" MSM journalists get their news in Iraq? I presume your statement is based on recorded fact rather than your own conclusions? Frankly, anyone going to Iraq is brave, braver than I am anyway. And I assume you aren't typing that from downtown Bhagdad? Despite what I think of her and her "journalism", Malkin is brave for going there even if she didn't leave the comfort of her military escort. There can't be many people there who are in as much danger from fellow hacks as they are from insurgents...

GAYlord
You forgot to add:

Ann "man" Coulter.

get your leftist talking points down please.

CB
Here is a partial list of left wing columnists who infest the mostly left-leaning newspapers in the U.S.:

Gene Lyons, David Broder, Arianna Huffington, David Corn, Eric Alterman, Christopher Hitchens, Bob Herbert, Maureen Dowd, Michael Kinsley, Frank Rich, E.J. Dionne Jr., Molly Ivins, Joe Conason, Paul Krugman, Ellen Goodman, Richard Reeves, Cynthia Tucker, Eleanor Clift, Fareed Zakaria, Jonathan Alter, Derrick Z. Jackson, etc ad nauseum....


The fact that Cal Thomas appears in hundreds of newspapers is irrelevant to the fact that more left-leaning columnists are published on the editorial pages than right-leaning columnists. Your hypothesis that leftist editorialists (as you yourself acknowledge are in the majority) would promote a right wing viewpoint more than a left wing viewpoint is ludicrous.

pitbull........
yours are worthy comments about previous military engagements in and outside our country.
Indeed, residents of New York City were largely and adamantly supportive of/allied with England during our revolutionary war. Howard Zinn would gloss over, or, entirely ignore this fact.
If it were up to New Yorkers in the mid to late 1700's, we would not be an independent country today.

Come to think of it, if New York City were to dictate the will of the USA today, we would be sheepishly waiting and watching for the next WTC event to occur within our country. Being from New York, I am confident of this.

Regarding real time. It is merely fascinating the number of individuals who respond with vitriol and negativity to Michelle Malkin's words, writing, perspective. They hate the fact this woman has something to SAY other than their notions of this war we are in. They hate the fact that Michelle would even suggest there is some hope to this situation. They hate the fact that people like you and me would read Malkin's article and give it attention and pause for consideration. They hate the fact that she is even provided a forum for her perspective----her right to voice her perspective. It is merely fascinating.
Critical Bill's delusions that the New York Times is led by conservatives is almost too laughable to respond to----other than he is WRONG. They even admit their political bias---which is why it is so easy to refer to them as Leftists. And, Criticalbill is not too critical while stating the MSM is "right leaning". Forget about the book "Bias" by former associate, Bernard Goldberg, of CBS' Dan Rather. He was the first to make the oppsite claim. However, the present day, Political Director of ABC NEWS, Mark Halperin, wrote a new book, "The Way To Win" with John F. Harris making it clear several times within the book that for 40 years the mainstream media has skewed their reporting to the left----to the liberal side of the perspective. Mark Halperin has openly and publicly stated several times that he does not fault conservatives for, "skepicism" from conservatives regarding news from traditional broadcasters, ABC, NBC, CBS, et al. Mark Halperin has not been fired from ABC for making such claims. He maintains his position that he is working for change within ABC and is doing his best today to develop neutrality with those he works with and who work for him.
The point? People like criticalbill simply lose credibility with such statements that have been refuted by the Mark Halperins, Beranard Goldberg's, and others who work inside the mainstream media.

Clarityseeker
Just to clarify, as you are seeking it, I didn't say that the New York Times is led by conservatives. If you're going to comment, try to read the original a bit more thoroughly...

tbmbuzz
Why put Maureen Dowd in there? I can't really say that she is left wing, nor right wing. She does her own thing. Remember how she ripped apart Drop-Trou Clinton week after week?

Tanabear writes
If you wanted to get the real story you would have taken a stroll by yourself through Sadr City or Fallujah. Then you might have seen the "real Iraq". The fact that no American will go outside the Green Zone without armed protection is a testament to our failure.

Heck. That could be said of parts of Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Detroit, New Orleans (before and after Katrina). What, exactly is your point?

"I left Iraq with unexpected hope..."
Yes, it's beautiful, great, and positively liberal that American soldiers are "teamed with Sunni and Shia, Iraqi civilian and soldier alike to establish local government structures and security framework districts."

But Malikin never addresses the giant dead elephant in the room: The low grade Civil War where our troops have no business being in the crossfire.

Further, she doesn't even mention whether she thinks escalation plays into the picture. This article is goofy, and disingenuous at best. The fact that Malkin embedded her "hope and resolve" in the middle of the article and finished with more of the same "fight 'em over there" baloney is very telling.

Stop the chatter!!
All this chatter is interesting, but we need to focus on the here and now. We need to complete this mission - whether it is Iraq or Afghanistan. If we pull these young people out now, why would anyone want to be a part of the military when all that happens once a mission has begun, is to pull them out when the powers that be, get cold feet. We want our young people to stand up for a country that they love and want to defend her. But how can we ask that of them, if won't stand behind their missions. All this debate needs to stop and we need to start making sacrifices for these young men and women as they are for us. I appreciate the positive comments of Michele's about what she saw going on over there. We need to shut up and let these young people complete their mission. The time of debate has come and gone!!

Bill,
" Now if they would pay hacks a decent wage perhaps things would change!"

Katie Couric got a couple nickles from CBS, what more do you want.

If the owners and publishers are so R/wing, why are the news sections so bloody pessimistic? The editorial sections also seem to be overwhelmingly pessimistic ie. Bush's NAM, Quagmire etc...

It may be our perceptions of what the middle (fair coverage) should look like.

11h

pitbull
Maybe the Impeached One is a bona-fide "Hog-Hunter."

Mark,
" Since few if any liberals were consulted, this turd of a war can't be laid in our lawn. This is a white house turd all the way."

Wasnt the war voted on with only 23 dessenters?

They are the only ones this war does not belong to, all the rest are cowards. Political history from the left is just repeating itself, as it does in every war, this is nothing new from the left, the left is exactly who we thought they were and will always be.

11h

Hey bull
When your team comes up with a real plan to win, not some re-cylcled hogwash that's already failed, I'll bite :-P

How 'bout that tough guy?

This is Propaganda BS
"I came to Iraq a darkening pessimist about the war, due in large part to my doubts about the compatibility of Islam and Western-style democracy, but also as a result of the steady, sensational diet of "grim milestone" and "daily IED count" media coverage that aids the insurgency.

I left Iraq with unexpected hope and resolve."

Oh the media coverage had her becoming a pessimist? Yeah right, she is the one complaining that the media is not showing the positive things, she is one of the main people telling you not to look at the news, it is all biased and thus the facts be damned, but the media is supposedly changing her mind. The main reason she wanted to go to Iraq was to attack the AP, but that angle got killed early.

So the media that she doesn't trust is changing her opinion of the War, and the conclusion that she ended up with I or anybody who has read her garbage could have predicted before she even went. Absolute BS.



BigGMoney
S.E. DC as well as Compton, Camden, or Trenton.

Go in there after dark, the cops find your body when THEY come back after sunrise.

Read the article
For those of you criticising Malkin for not going out side the Green Zone, read the article again. or maybe for the first time.

She was at FOB Victory , northern Bagdad, and outside of the wire. That does not sound like the Green Zone. Neither do Hurriya, al Salam, or Khadaniya ( out side the gate of Camp Victoty).


Pitbull
I have - all three of my sons are in the Army - one studying Arabic so you can imagine where he will be when done, one in Afghanistan and the other to leave next month for Iraq. Right now my husband is an intelligence contractor in Afghanistan. How much more you want me to sacrifice? I send a whole more to my boys than coffee. I just wish the rest of America would step up to the plate and make some big sacrifices - coffee is nice, but we can do better for our kids. By the way I thought my name was going to come up "gruntmomx3"

Pam
Amen to your comments.

Gunny
My son tells me that folks in the Green Zone reminds him of the stories I told him about Long Binh and Ton Son Nhut.
"went to war and found garrison"

Yes the media is center left...
The media is definitely center left on most things, but if it ever attempts to bring up the crimes or unethical behavior by large corporations, their officers, and criminal acts by the upper eschelons of our ruling class, all that will be suppressed. They have a good thing going right now with their little oligarchy, of media conglomerates, of political parties, and powerful politicians. Oh another place that they like to suppress conversation is a frank discussion on Israel, its American lobby, and its policy with Palestine.

pitbull
Had a buddy back there who I used to work for when out and about on leave. He sold and left in the mid 80's, too much crime. What a h*llhole.

Packrat
The Green Zone, that's where the intrepid Iraq Study Group went to write their report. Saw 1% of the country and wrote a report on the other 99% based on pure speculation.

I once worked for a Gunny who was overheard bitching about being in the rear with the gear in Vietnam. Soon found himself in Dong Ha facing hardcore rice-propelled NVA!

He used to caution us to STFU when we had it good. Lesson Learned.

Pitbull
No, Hugh B.

Pam. THANK YOU to you and yours.

11hotel
One swallow does not make a summer. Katie Couric may make a ton of cash, but for every Katie Couric there are a hundred journalists, subs, designers, photographers who are paid a pittance. Fact.
As for your doubts about right wing media ownership, name one major media outlet outside the New York Times group whose ownership could vaguely be described as progressive or left wing. I can assure you there aren't many...

If one has to depend on the media....
to shape ones opinion on issues with so many sources of information out there, then that says a lot about the intelligence and judgement of the person recieving the information.

I find it interesting that most dems/libs when listening to the so-called MSM report the news they hear just that..reporters reporting then news sans personal opinion..yet repubs/cons hear
a bias against themselves by the so-called msm slanting the news in a negative light against their party and agenda.

Maybe just maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Perhaps there is some detectable leftist bais in news reporting and perhaps repubs/cons are not taking responsibiltiy for creating their own bad press by making bad policy decisions and
rhetorical mishaps that they dont want reported.

CriticalBill
You labeled the New York Times, Washington Post as "right wing" papers. Pardon the semantics (I inserted the term "conservative)----YOU REMAIN DELUDED on this. They are not led by "right wingers"---period.
And while we're at it, your comment about the MSM commentary, "If anything, certainly from a commentating point of view, the mainstream media is biased to the right."
You are WRONG on this as well. I do not consider the Washington Times or New York Post as "MSM" (limited readership). Those 2 papers as well as a sprinkling of small/medium market newspapers across these United States and the Wall Street Journal are among the very few conservatively writted editorials. The remaining are skewed "LEFT".

Who said this?
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

And who said this?

"I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders."

Get a grip people.


Michelle
Thanks for doing such a wonderful COMPLETE job of reporting the FACTS. There are some on these boards that just dont want to hear these facts like GWB (the lib poster). Their minds are made up. Not unlike the many factions that make up the complexity you speak of in Iraq. If you think about...it's OPEN MINDEDNESS, or the the lack thereof, that is one of the major reasons why this has been so difficult.

Critical Bill
San Francisco Chronicle.

Clarityseeker
You are well-named - you definitely need help on the clarity front. Just for your benefit, here is the paragraph to which you refer:

"No matter how many left wing journalists work for the London Times, it is a right wing paper because of its leaders. The same applies to The Washington Post, or the New York times on the other side."

Take note of those last four words... any time you want clarified on anything, just ask. I won't turn you away.

Pitbull says..
"btw - I never fail to buy a meal for a uniform when I travel."

For nine years in a row the restaurant I owned never failed to host, at no charge, a Veterans Day Feast. All in uniform or who had ever worn our uniform ate free that day, any menu choice they wanted. We also collected USO contributions.

Gunny - SF chronicle
Which is of course owned by the Hearst Corporation. Who knows its politics, but it does have joint ventures with Disney which isn't known as the last bastion of socialism...

Critical Bill
Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr., aka Pinch, once stated:

"that if an American soldier ran into a North Vietnamese soldier, he would prefer for the American to get shot. "It's the other guy's country," he explained.

Somehow, I don't think that Pinchy is a right-winger. In fact, I've NEVER seen him at any of our VRWC BBQ's.

My Point Being
Why are the wingers so firmly set against REDEPLOYMENT.

It's neither cutting, nor running. Intervention is still possible and likely.

The war mongers are happy, the doves see some progress that reflects reality, and every one is happy.

Empirical Proof of leftist media bias
It is deliberately deceptive to say that the Establishment Media is controlled by Conservatives because (supposedly) the owners are conservative. The proof is in the work output, not the voter registration of the owners (which is as likely to be liberal/Democrat as Republican in any case). The news reportage/editing/management is far more important and influential than the Op-Ed columnists since the editors and reporters get to tell the public "the way it is" and they even get to put it in the front page headlines and above-the-fold stories.
--------------------
Here is the simple test: Take any half dozen litmus test issues (pro-military, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-life, pro-capitalism, etc) and catalog the number of news stories that take the conservative side of those issues compared to the number that view things from a left/liberal/Democrat perspective. There are numerous studies (such as the Lichter-Rothman Study) that show massive left-leaning repoting, phraseology, and editing-by-omission. You can do the test yourself, and you will find, as I have that the ratio of left/liberal v. Conservative stories is at least 3 to 1, and sometimes as high as 40 to 1, depending upon the medium.
---------------------------
Actually, in some cases, the ratio approaches infinity.
---------------------------
Incidentally, I'd be happy to trade away all the talk radio hosts and Op-Ed columnists in America if conservatives would be handed control of the news. Unless you would be willing to make that trade, you are tacitly admitting the greater power of the left-liberal propaganda news in the Establishment Media.

Critical Bill
Ah, the SAME family that produced wannabe revolutionary Patty Hearst. DEFINATELY a right-winger that one.

BTW, Disney is pretty far to the left, gay rights, etc. Just because they're GREEDY for OPM (other people's money) doesn't make them right-wing.

After all, noted libdolt John Leftwards has been known to channel the dead in order to sway jury in a lawsuit in order to fill his pockets.

GunnyG
I had credited you with more brains than Clarityseeker. I refer you to my replies to that quarter wit.

Disney
Walt himself was a well known anti-semite. He's long gone now, but doesn't Disney own ABC, it's main news outlet, where Mark Halperin is running things? Yeah... real preogressive him...

Critical Bill
A quick search on Al Gore's invention (the Internet) shows Patty Hearst as a "newspaper hieress" and an actress. Quite obviously, with a revolutionary and limousine liberal running the show, 2+2=4 here, they're leftists...literally.

Also found out that the Houston Chronicle is owned by them and is a left-wing rag.

GunnyG
Ha ha... that old bit of bull about Gore claiming to have invesnted the internet... but as you well know Gunny, Patty Hearst abandoned the ideals of her captors many years ago. The Houston chronicle is another one of their stable, but again owning left wing news outlets is no proof that the owners are themselves left wing. They know what the market wants and they supply accordingly.

pitbull
You must have hit the bullseye, wolfy is hoisting his leg on ya! haha.

Check my blog for the weather prediction courtesy of Robbie "Al Gorebot" and the coming Ice Age!

Democracy/Freedom
I am not going to argue the merits of the war, or whether MM is a “Pollyanna”, or whether the war is based on lies, illegal behavior or any other insane liberal talking point. I have posted more than enough on that issue in another current thread and the host of liberal trolls posting here will not be won over with logical arguments anyway. My arguments for this thread are:

There seems to be a lot of people who don’t know the difference between democracy and freedom. I will not even get into the varying levels of democracy. A country is considered a democracy if its citizens get to vote in a legitimate election to decide who will be in charge of the various levels of government. Countries have democracy. A person is said to be free if he or she gets to perform/think/do the things the wish to do and who have the ownership of private property. Individuals have freedom. One would have to agree that Iraq is a nominal or representative democracy because they have voted for their leaders. This does not necessarily mean that they are free. I can not say on that score one way or another because I have not been there and there hasn’t been enough coverage by any network to support any position.

All of the MSM news organizations are biased to the left, including the supposed “fair and balanced Fox”. First off the study by the left wing organization, UCLA said they were all left wing except Fox which they said was center-right (Middle of the road). I submit to ya’ll that Fox is left wing also because they go along with all of the other news outlets on what they report. What you report and what you don’t report contributes just as much to the slant as how you report it. Look at the Mark Foley non-issue. Fox kept it in the mainstream just as long as the rest of the MSM. The other stories are just as bad. The bottom line is that the MSM run from ultra-anti-USA-communist wing through the gamut to just left wing (Fox). I know you lefties don’t agree, but you probably think the FDR is right wing. Don’t even bother posting a rebuttal because I won’t read it.

The post concerning MM not walking around outside the Green Zone without an armed escort doesn’t deserve a rebuttal and in any case someone has already made it. My younger brother went to Ga. Tech. For those of you not familiar with Atlanta, GT is in the middle of downtown Atlanta. He carried a model 1911A1 (small .45) around with him. This kept him from getting mugged one night on campus. I wouldn’t walk around in any major US city without being armed.






CriticalBill
You play with words, "on the other side".
It infers, to me, that the NYT and WP are different from the London Times by either it's editorial viewpoint or it's ownership politics.
Frankly, I do not know who owns the London Times. I DO know that the New York Times and the Washington Post maintain liberal views in their commentary. I also know they are owned by liberals. Until the death a year ago by then-owner of Left Angeles Times, it too had been under his leftist ownership fo nearly 40 years. Indeed, his father was a conservative, so prior to the early 60's, the LA TIMES had offered up long-time cconservative views in its editorial department. But since then--NOT SO. Liberal ownership---Liberal editorial----Liberal News views. I could provide myriad examples of their news reporting---I will spare you. San Francisco Chronicle---Liberal--ownership and editorials. Seattle Intelligencer---Liberal--both counts. Minneapolis Star Tribune---Leftist---editorially and liberal ownership.

Critical Bill
You mean Al DIDN'T invent the internet? That's not what he told Clinton News Network reporter Wolf Blitzer.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/03/09/president.2000/transcript.gore/

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

I took the initiative in creating the Internet.
I took the initiative in creating the Internet.
I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

Thanks again Al. You remain my heeeeeerow! haha.

I know you won't read it Vic
But - "The bottom line is that the MSM run from ultra-anti-USA-communist wing through the gamut to just left wing (Fox)."
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Pitbull says..
"Gaylord
VERY COOL!!!
what have you done lately however?"

On days when I have a VA appointment, I spend the day visiting Vets in the hospital there.

Also I voted Democratic, along with the majority. What have you done?


To Critical Bill
Walt Disney died in 1966. The company is NOTHING like it was when he was the CEO so whether or not Walt was an antisemite is irrevalent. Also, it have nothing to do with whether or not he was left wing or right wing, conservative or liberal. It would mean (if true) that he was a biggot. You can be a biggot on any side of the isle.

Well
Clarityseeker, you got that one wrong. You are the one who plays with words - deliberately misunderstanding what I write in order to make a "point" about how stupid this particular liberal is. "He thinks the New York Times is right wing... isn't he soooooo stupid!!!" I can just see you prancing around your living room with joy... and Gunny, that one's never going to die. But some people take that as an indication that he is claiming credit for the proliferation of the internet during the Clinton administration, rather than its actual invention. I don't know if it's true or not. But I do know that if he had an (R) after his name you'd be defending him to the hilt.

CB
That all you got? Read Medved's column, which coincidentally appears today. It shreds your baseless assertions.

Bill,
There may be no liberal ownership, but I do not see it any where other than foxNN. Maybe you could point me to an outlet that is right of center on a majority of their coverage, and opinion? I just do not see it.

11h

Vic
Ok, Ok, maybe the darker side of Walt's character is irrelevant. Point taken. And i also agree that being a bigot is irrelevent to your political leanings... still, Fox News left wing... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

"Look at the Mark Foley non-issue."
Slaps knee. LOL!

And this (hee, hee, hee):

"The bottom line is that the MSM run from ultra-anti-USA-communist wing through the gamut to just left wing (Fox). I know you lefties don’t agree, but you probably think the FDR is right wing. Don’t even bother posting a rebuttal because I won’t read it."

Okay, I won't rebut. I promise. (snicker)


"I took the INITIATIVE in creating...
the internet". As in legislative initiative, as in introducing or sponsoring a bill that set up the internet as we know it, the one that you are using right now.

You repubs tell a lie so often enough you believe it yourselves.

Another lie told so often the liars believed it was the fable about Clinton's airport runway haircut. Not one single plane was held up. Didn't happen but made for a real good story.

Critical Bill
Poor Al. We ALL know what he meant but it's fun to tease Gorebot.

It's along the lines of Hanoi John's botched "joke" about the military but I knew I'd hook me a fish.

Thanks for biting Gay lord.

To Derek Teaberry
Your comments sound familiar - are you related to Barbara Boxer?

seeing red
I haven't read all the posts, the first few defeatest were enough for me to be so mad that I just want to rip someones head off. IF any of you deafetest, liberal, spineless, bleeding heart bastards live in NC. Please, contact me and we can talk a little more about what is really going on, face to face. But I doubt that any of you have the spine or the ba77s to even think about approaching me.

Sgt. Andy Butterworth
U.S.Army Ret.
abutterworth5@hotmail.com

GunnyG
Patty Hearst is not a revolutionary. WEhen the SLA kidnapped her for ransom, they gang raped her for days and held her in a closet until she broke. She was a kid, and at that time we didn't understand Stockholm Syndrome, where captives who rely on their captors for everything (including life) begin to mentally identify with them for self preservation. She was correctly pardoned...which was one of the very few things that I actually agreed with Clinton on. His other pardons were a disgrace.

11hotel
Time Warner, Clearchannel, Knight Ridder, Dow Jones, Pearson, News Corporation (owners of Fox and the London Times, among many others), Gannett, Tribune... the list goes on...

Critical Bill
Although Fox News' may have more right-leaning than left-leaning commentators, I find their reporting to be mostly factual and down-the-middle. Their reporting may appear right-wing only in comparison to the alternatives.

Look At Yourself First
Critical Bill had better look at himself first before ever judging others?!! Remember Bill, you Libs are always saying who are you to judge & that all conservatives are mean spirited. The most mean spirited people on earth are the spineless Lib/ Dem/Soc/Commies who won't be satisfied until we get hit again by the Islamo-Nazis & millions are killed by these bastards you are working right along with
in order to get your birthright power back. Problem is, your Islamo-Nazis buddies will kill you first before you ever get that power back!!

1leg warrior
I'd do it! Sadly I live in London so it won't be possible. I've been to Charlotte though. Lovely place, had a great time there. Maybe you'd get a positive response from someone closer if you didn't sound like you are making death threats...

Hurricane
Who have I judged here today? Apart from clarityseeker who I admit to calling a quarter wit. I don't have any friends who are Islamo-Nazis... well, not that I know of but I'd be delighted for you to tell me which of my friends is one. They sound like a horrid bunch!! One minute... Islamo-Nazis... judging... hey, maybe it's you who is doing the judging Hurricane!

1leg warrior
I sent you an e-mail. I live in Greensboro, and I don't consider myself defeatist, nor am I liberal by any stretch of the imagination. I am a realist, however. I appreciate your service, as do most of here. You can click on my name to see my blog, and also my e-mail.


Cav out front. Garry Owen.

CB
You know, I really tried to start a serious discussion on this quite a bit earlier, but you seem more interested in playing "troll" and antagonizing the room.

1LEGWARRIOR
Sure why don't you come to my house, it is 1600 Pa Avenue, Washington, DC. We can "debate" the issues but if you want to fight, I will have somebody fight in my stead, as has been the case throughout my life.

Also, the way you portray a sniveling 5 year old bully is excellent, if I didn't stutter like a retard maybe I could pull that off, instead I come off like a spoiled 5 year old, Andover Cowboy, but luckily people are ignorant and brainwashed enough to believe my BS. It is better than debating the issue, why should I have to defend my indefensible actions, I am the decider afterall.

George W Bush
Nat'l Guard AWOL/Ret

In defense of CB
Some of you are being unjustly harsh towards Critical Bill. Even though he's wrong, at least he's articulate. We should welcome his POV here, that's what TH is all about. On the other hand if you want to vent and hammer on Kimberly, Vince or some of the other more rabid lefties, I say feel free.

A Democracy in Japan?Never...
Had we had the same terminal carpers blogging in 1945 as we have performing their neverending public whining today, they surely would have decried loudly any hope of success in the occupation of Japan.
In 1945, it was not popular demand among Japanese citizenry that demanded the establishment of a non-predatory (and therefore deomocratic) government and society; that call came from all who hoped for a peaceful future for the world.
The United Nations did not call for democracy in Japan. The Soviet Union would have preferred that Japan fight on, producing a need for their intervention against and domination of their old regional foe.
It really doesn't matter what "they" want. The world needs a stable, democratic island to part the roiling waters of Islamic (middle eastern) political intrigue.
There are many differences between the situation in the Japan of 1945 and the Iraq of today. You could write books about the magnitude of the challenge.
But the biggest and most critical difference between then and there and now and here is that then "we" recognized no alternative to success.
Now "we" are looking for excuses for failure and justifications for never really trying.

CriticalBill............................
I am neither in my living room, as you suggest, nor am I laughing, as you say, nor do I think you are "Sooooooo stupid" as you clearly state.
Indeed you are delusional. I already pointed to the "Political Director" of ABC News, Mark Halperin, as an insider journalist (higher level position), working right now, as only one person who confirms liberal bias in MSM. He makes the argument that it has been so for "4 DECADES". His book and Bernard Goldberg's book, are among many other public resources of insiders taking this position.

I also find it fascinating that "Gunny" provides you an example of Al Gore stating that he "created the internet" while a MEMBER OF CONGRESS---which was well before he served as Vice President under Bill Clinton.

Yet, you construe this as, in your words, "But some people take that as an indication that he is claiming credit for the proliferation of the internet during the Clinton administration.

Al Gore's statement that he took the initiative to "create the internet" as a Member of Congress could only be construed the way you say by confused people. Gore's Senate activities (initiatives) were separate and apart and distinct from any of his activities ("proliferations") as Vice President in the 1990's.

You are very confused-----not "STUPID". And I am not laughing at you, as you say. It is Liberals who make such claims as they claimed Bush was "STUPID" even before he took office as President. Similarly to the way Liberals called Ronald Reagan "STUPID" countless times when he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter over 25 years ago. I was there---heard it said many times by many people in the media and in universities. Liberals love to roll out the STUPID word. Neither was Clinton STUPID. He was a very smart guy. He was indeed charming as well. He had many failings---but he was not STUPID---and up to this point I do not believe you to be STUPID. Please do not

pitbull
You are in fine form today amigo.

Sherdding libs left and right.

Be advised that Gay Lord is just another troll weenie from Huff/KoS/moveon.org

Unfortunately, TH has been advertising and that brings in the roaches like Gay lord.

clarityseeker
Believe that you just dispensed with a lesson to Critical Bill.

nicely done.

Actually the biggest difference is...
"But the biggest and most critical difference between then and there and now and here is that then "we" recognized no alternative to success.
Now "we" are looking for excuses for failure and justifications for never really trying."

Actually the difference is that Japan attacked us and we had a REAL justification to go in there. We were fighting Japanese imperial forces, now we are the empire that invades countries. The appropriate WWII comparison is us to the Nazis. The Nazis used lies to justify their ambitions for empire, of course nobody could prove for a fact that the Nazis lied until we discovered their internal documents that showed that the terror attacks or threats were created by Hitler. Some would say that is could be applicable to today.

It is not that people cannot stomach a war, when the war is based on pretenses that were not true, whether they lied or if every instance was plausible deniability as the sheep would like to believe, and then after they realized that what they were told was not true and this was a war of choice, not defense, then victory (continued imperial presence in Iraq) doesn't seem that enticing either. For some victory would be getting the hell out of these Imperial Wars and getting back to being a Republic. Terrorism is a symptom of Empire, those that do not acknowledge that are in severe denial of history.

Pitbull
You know what you are right. Bush is smart, to be able to dodge Vietnam and have a majority of the military vote is astounding. They hate Clinton and all the Canadian defectors but they just love the "fortunate son". He supported Vietnam in voice only, daddy was CIA much earlier than previously thought so that probably helped. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.

To Michelle
Glad 'you've been there, done that'. Now that you have that reality in your resume, I may take your writing more seriously. However you're still operating with a Tony Snow thumbs-up, a definite mark against you in terms of full open-mindedness.
That said, can you possibly consider that what informs the "liberal" opinion is not that our 5 star very capable soldiers cannot win this horrible fiasco, but it is the Pentagon and the White House that cannot win it. It is Wash DC that is unable to win.
Perhaps you should concentrate less on so-called Liberal bias in media, and more on Pentagon/ DC nonsense. Beginning with the questionable Pentagon decision to withhold lifesaving technology now available from production at the whim of the DefCon's wish to continue its contract for another four years developing a more perfect product.
Now that you've seen the front lines, This baloney should outrage you, not the AP.

George W Bush
What was the mission of the Delta Dart?

Interception of high-speed SOVIET bombers carrying nuclear weapons.

Not a lot of those in Vietnam.

It takes about two-three YEARS to train a combat pilot on a specific plane. Bush was trained on the F-102. That was his plane. Only a liberal idiot would think that you could just take one pilot and replace him with another without any drop of effectiveness. Is that what you think?

Lastly, a good friend of mine has 20+ years as an aircraft mech in the AF and has cleaned up several high-speed jet crashes. His nightmares consist of:

a. telling the widows and children
b. picking up a helmet and the visor opens, revealing a smeared eyeball stuck to it.

Yep, a real coward that Bush, flying Mach 2+ jets.

GWB
Oh you were being SARCASTIC? Oh, never mind my post then. Those pesky facts will get in the way of your abject stupidity.

GunnyG
F-102 Delta Dart's were deployed to Da Nang for MiGCAP, although I don't know the dates. It was temporary, as the F-102 was no dogfighter. I doubt that Natl Guard units would have been sent on that in any event.

GunnyG
"Yep, a real coward that Bush, flying Mach 2+ jets."

Well I think he was more scared of Vietnamese and Drug Tests and that is what factored into daddy's decision but if you want to make him into Teddy Roosevelt that is your [deluded] opinion.

pitbull
Just think.

While Bush was flying jets in the TANG...

Draft-dodger Bill Clinton was touring the Societ Union, having entered through Finland.

Wonder what THAT was all about.

C-D,

Thanks. Did not know that.

Two Quick notes
1. By IQ-basing George W. Bush's service intelligence test and John Kerry's service intelligence test, Bush defeats Kerry on the IQ something like 138-118.

2. The Texas Air National Guard in the late 60s was a safe haven for Texas VIPs- sons of Lloyd Bentsen, John Tower, George HW Bush and about a half-dozen Dallas Cowboys. Of course, the Cowboys may have been more terrified of Vince Lombardi, Ray Nitchske and the rest of the Green Bay Packers than they were of the Vietcong.

F-102 Delta Dagger in 'Nam
Got more info on the F-102 Delta Dagger. (The Delta Dart is the F-106. oops!)

From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-102_Delta_Dagger

The F-102 served in Vietnam, flying fighter patrols and serving as bomber escorts. A total of 15 aircraft were lost in Vietnam: one to air-to-air combat, several to ground fire and the remainder to accidents.

Initially, F-102 detachments began to be sent to bases in Southeast Asia in 1962, when radar contacts that were detected by ground radars were thought to possibly be North Vietnamese Il-28 "Beagle" bombers, which was considered a very credible threat during that time period. F-102s were sent to Thailand and other nearby countries to intercept these aircraft if they indeed threatened South Vietnam at any time.

Later on, B-52 strikes, codenamed ARC LIGHT, were escorted by F-102s based in the theater. It was during one of these missions that an F-102 was shot down by a North Vietnamese MiG-21 using an AA-2 Atoll heat-seeking missile. The MiGs approached undetected, and one of the F-102s was shot down. The other F-102 pilot managed to shoot off some AIM-4s at the fleeing MiG-21s, but no hits were recorded. This was the only air-to-air loss for the F-102 during the Vietnam War.

Interestingly enough, the F-102 became fairly heavily used in the air-to-ground role. The interceptor was equipped with 24 70-mm FFARs in the fuselage bay doors, and these weapons were used to good effect against various types of North Vietnamese targets. Additionally, heat-seeking Falcon missiles used in conjunction with the F-102s nose-mounted IRST (Infrared Search & Track) were employed on night time harassment raids along the Ho Chi Minh trail. This is likely the only time an air-to-air missile has been used for air-to-ground operations.

Operations with both the F-102A and TF-102A two-seater (which was used in a Forward Air Control role because its two seats and 70-mm rockets offered good versatility for the mission) in Vietnam until 1968 when all aircraft were sent back to the United States.

Pitbull
Using Clinton against a conservative is not an insult. I am a conservative who is speaking out against the same sh!t that I was speaking out against in the Clinton Administration, (eg Being the World's policeman, Imperialism, Expansion of the Federal government, loss of civil liberties, expansion of entitlements, politicians using focus group washed talking points, and lying Executives). I am dealing witht the same crap, just have to argue with a different group of apologists.

C-D
Knew it was Delta-something! haha.

Thanks for the correction. I like to have my facts STRAIGHT unlike the various libs posting on TH!

GunnyG
My pleasure. :)

I think my role here at TH has become resident militery hardware geek, lol!

Pitbull
Answer this one question:

Is terrorism a symptom of empire?

it is what it is.
Since when does "standing and fighting" mean sacrificing our best in a crusade of enormous expense to our treasury, to democratize a group of muslims who prefer to engage in blood feuds, revenge killings, and sectarian warfare?

Since when did this become our national interest, to send our troops into this conflagration?

I agree we cannot now just give up and leave. It would send a devastating message to terrorists.

But this president was clueless, totally ignorant, of what he was getting our nation into.

And that is not forgivable.

Cooled off
OK....Now that I have had some time to lower my blood pressure and relax a little I can write clearly.

I'm not going to try to take on any one individual here, I'm just going to express my educated opinion. Ms. Malkins column was right on. What she saw, heard, and the steps she took were a real and factual representation of what life is like for our troops every day. The vast majority will never know what it is like to wake up everyday and wonder what the day will bring and wether or not you will even live through the day, or even if when you bed down for a couple hours of shut eye if you will ever even wake up. It does not matter wether the soldiers are in the "Green Zone" or not, the threat is everywhere. The people you are talking to today or the kids that you are giving candy and school supplies to, will be the ones who are shooting at you the next day, or holding the trigger for the IED that you may drive by. Our job is a thankless one, we do not ask for adoration or for status as "Hero". We go boldly into our job, day after day because it is what we have been chosen, and volunteered, to do.
We do not bother ourselves with politics, or what "evidence" was out there before we made our move. We have seen enough evidence every single day on the street, we uncovered the sought after evidence, but don't tell anyone else. The Sarin gas that was released in an IED, the many other IED's that were found with Sarin gas. Oh nooo, that was all our fault. We are making terrorists?? No, we are just bringing them to us outside of our towns. The majority of the insurgents are not locals, they are from all over the world, remember Johnny Taliban we caught in Afghanistan?

I refuse to stop supporting my Brothers and Sisters in Arms, they are doing what needs to be done. We do not need politicians or pundits to tell us what we are doing wrong or to tell us what we can or can not do to protect ourselves and those in our charge. Nor do we need them to protect us by "redeploying", if they care, if you care, you will stand up behind us and give us full support, and let us do our job. Do not try to protect us, we are here to protect you.
Sleep well, enjoy the time with your family without looking over your shoulder, drive down the road and wonder if the guy on the cell phone is paying enough attention to avoid an accident. That is your that we fight to protect. Burn the Flag of my country in my country, that is your right that we die for. Forget about saying the Pledge of Alegiance, though you know not what true allegience is, but don't get all in a tizzy when I say "Under God". If my faith bothers you, then talk to someone else, walk away, but don't tell me what I can or can not say. Chances are I do not believe the same as you, but that is your right and your life, I fought for that right.

Pitbulls
"neo-con - I think the libs came up with that one because it sounds close to the moron white supremacist neo-"nazi" - you know, having "neo" as part of the name - wait, does this mean "neo" from "the matrix" is actually a "neo-con"?"

Well the term was invented by a liberal. Neoconservatism was coined by Irving Kristol, father of AEI, PNAC, Brit Hume Roundtable member William Kristol. They tend to be liberal on entitlements (Bush?) and hawkish on the military, with a strong and usually personal relationship with Israel. They also tend to be Republican. Is this "Neocon doesn't exist" sh!t what they are pumping on Talk Radio nowadays? I stopped listening to Glenn Beck when he started beating the Iran War drums over a year ago, now I believe he has switched party affiliation from Republican to Likud.


Stability
There was stability in Iraq before we went there under the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. Many people died under his rule but there was stability. Now many people are still dying and there is no stability. Are the dead killed under a so-called Democracy any less dead than those killed under a dictatorship? The only difference is that now we are responsible for the deaths.

Islam compatibility with democracy
I have a number of co-workers who are Iranian immigrants, and we have discussed this a few times. I have drawn some conclusions from this, basically theory, no way to prove it of course.

First, they were very clear when the Iraq war started that we were playing right into the hands of Iran. I would have to say at this point that they were probably right about that.

Regarding the compatibility or not of Islam and democracy, my friends say most people in Iran (and probably Iraq and the rest of the ME as well) would like to see some form of western democracy in their societies. I heard much the same thing from others as long ago as the 1980’s, and the original Iranian revolution in the 1970’s came about because the religious leaders were worried that the country was becoming too westernized. So I believe it is true the people there would like democracy, but the fact that 30 years have passed and nothing has happened says to me they don’t want it bad enough to fight for it. I’m getting the same feeling from what I have seen so far in Iraq.

I have also noticed that my friends will not bring themselves to condemn terrorism. These are not islamofascists, but westernized people who like living in America with all that goes with it and appreciate the freedoms they have here. But, they are still practicing muslims. And that is, I think, the rub. Islam does not say that it is okay to live under a secular government that promotes religious freedom. Though my friends deny it, I suspect there is some fear there as well, probably from existing religious leaders who would stand to lose all their power if secular democracies became the norm in the ME. I believe it is these leaders who are ultimately behind all the fomentation of terror.

I think most people in the ME are caught between a desire to improve their lot and the stranglehold of their religion. Western religions have adapted/evolved quite a bit as the industrial revolution and the age of enlightenment caused people to become more permissive in their views. This has allowed different religions and non-religious people to co-exist in western societies without *too much* difficulty. Islam has not adapted in this fashion, and will probably not do so easily. And, Islam is so totalitarian and heavy handed in its control and lifelong indoctrination techniques, that I just think most muslims are hesitant to take any stand against the status quo. Most would welcome democracy if it is handed to them with no effort (my friends are quite happy and doing very well under a secular government), but the real leaders behind Islam will fight against any change with everything they have got.

Now, we (the U.S.) has taken the steps to give Iraq a democracy. Iraqis appear to have embraced this tentatively at best. Understandable, given the above plus hearing all cut-and-run rhetoric in the news. They have to be thinking that the U.S. could walk away anytime and leave a lot of people hung out to dry. It’s not like we haven’t done it before, eh? Think Saigon in 1975, or abandoning the Shia after the first Gulf War. If the Iraqi democracy is going to work, it’s not going to be a quick thing. We have to let those people know we will stand with them for the long haul in order to begin to gain their trust, and we have to show the killers that we are ready to take them on and beat them, period. If we walk away, everything will have been for nothing and we would leave things in worse shape than when we started.

Heroes Fighting for a Lost Cause

Nobody, L or R, can deny our troops are heroes putting forth a Herculean effort. I knew that even before reading Ms. Malkins inspiring article. But there is just too mcuh evidence that they are fighting a lost cause. Too many Iraqis have no interest in being Iraqis, they are Shia, Sunni, Kurd, or other smaller groups first, Iraqis distantly 2nd.

We are responsible for far too may Iraqi deaths each day. Our very presence provokes a portion, a majority, or practically all of the violence depending on who you ask, there's too much spin to know the truth.

With no legitimate business in Iraq, we destroyed their government, their society, and their security. (Saddam, for all his faults, gave them far better security than we have.) With New American Century Ideology rather than any realistic plan to guide us, we quickly squandered whatever good will we earned toppling a dictator.

Our policy now should be to minimize the violence as rapidly as possible. Partition Iraq into at least three countries; Shia, Sunni, and Kurd. (FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T SELL OUT THE KURDS YET AGAIN!) Provide the funds to move anyone who wishes into the areas where they'll be the safest. That's a small fraction of the money we've already flushed down the toilet.

And here's a New American Century for you, one you probably will not like one bit: Grant ANYONE in Iraq who wishes it American citizenship, immigration, and assistance settling in our country. THAT'S what we owe them, no less. And that would be a good precedent to establish, a good thing to keep in mind, the next time we feel like creating HELL ON EARTH in some unlucky part of the globe.


Pitbull
"and to answer that nonsense NO - terrorism is an act of a social disease - I think we call them serial killers in the US?"

Well I am glad that you answered my question. It illustrates your ignorance, AGAIN, of history and that is all I wanted to show.

No I didn't go to Columbia, but I don't think you hate Universities, I think you just hate books, they contain facts, facts that you might not like because they do not conform to your opinion.

You do win the award for who could jam the most talking points in one post though, Rush would be proud.

Interesting so far
Reading a book by Oliver North titled Assassins,
about half through
plot so far, jihadists (Iranian, with ex-KGB help) kill most of Saudi royal family, blow up oil production facilities, have 11 nuke artillery shells, blow one in the desert to prove their point,
price of gasoline $5.00 gal, Washington DC deserted with all the Congressmen going back home to check on their districts.

Tell me it couldn't happen.

Embedded reporters
Michelle is not the only embedded reporter. My hometown newspaper sent a reporter to embed with the 72nd Stryker brigade. She's so far been in country nine months out of the last 12 (she came home for Thanksgiving and Christmas and bugged out for some European R&R during one of the heatwaves). Her photographer is an American of Iraqi descent who speaks the language, so she has been able to get out of the Green Zone with just him and he leaves the Green Zone on his own regularly. He still has aunts, uncles and cousins living there, she tells me. She tells me and reports in our newspaper that the MSM (who never leave the Green Zone) is guilty of gross mis-reporting of facts. Her dad is stationed in Iraq with another unit and was at Fallujah as were several of the returned soldiers I know.

Tanabear - the people of Fallujah had a tough time when we went in after the terrorists they were harboring. So did the people of Dresden and Guam and a thousand other enemy strongholds over the last century. War isn't pretty. So, if you don't want to get bombed, it's probably not a good idea to shelter Al-Queda's second in command and supreme leader of the terrorist forces in Iraq. All they had to do was shove him out the front door bound in duct tape and we probably would have quit shelling the city. It's really pretty simple. Decide which side you want to be on and accept the consequences for your decision. Oh, but in the grey world in which you live, nobody should have to make tough choices. We should all be friends and use our words -- even when terrorists speak loudest with bombs and hijacked airplanes.

By the way, embedding wasn't called that back then, but it was used a lot in World War II and Korea. The reporters get to see the war zone first-hand without getting shot or kidnapped in the process. Would you who protest prefer that they reported from safety zone of the United States or the Hilton in Quwait City?

Pitbull
"btw - do you also blame the cops for a murder down the street from the dunkin donuts? or do you place the blame on the criminal that actually pulled the trigger?"

This wasn't aimed at me but yeah the "criminal" gets the blame. The cop could be responsible for some blame if he was grossly negligent on the job and that negligence contributed to the death occuring but you didn't give me any facts of the case.

What about this hypothetical:

Country A bribes country B to do its will.

Country A wants country B to invade Country C.

Country C was ruled by a puppet for Country A ever since they overthrew the popular leader of Country C and installed it with a despotic puppet so that Country A can harvest its resources.

Country A arms Country C to defend and fight itself against Country B.

Country B and Country C destroy each other and eventually have a ceasefire.

Country B later has a border dispute with Country D. Country A assures Country B that they do not get involved with other countries' border disputes.

Country B invades Country D.

Country A acts shocked that Country B settled its border dispute and attacks Country B.

Country B and Country A sign a ceasefire, but Country A gets to patrol most of Country B's airspace.

Country B decides to export its natural resources in an inconsistent manner. They also decide to switch the currency that they hold their reserves in from Country A's currency to Continent Z's currency.

Country A decides it had enough with Country B and invades it on pretenses that prove to be false.

Country A decides it wants to invade Country C who also wants to change its reserves to Continent Z's currency. The justification for invading Country C is that it does not need nuclear power and despite the fact that Country A gave Country C a nuclear power plant when it was ruled by its puppet despot, decides that Country C does not have the right to have a plant now.


LOOK AT THE SCENARIO ABOVE WHO IS IN THE WRONG? It's not troops at fault it is LEADERS that are at fault.

Liberal vs. conservative media
There was a time when it didn't matter whther a publication (or network) was liberal or conservative because they all made an honest effort to report the truth first (as in "on the front page and save their political opinions for the editorial pages.

The Walter Cronkite came out in opposition to the Vietnam War and became a famous media hero for it.

Ever since then the media has shamelessly hawked one side or the other, with the overwhelming majority of the hawking being for liberal policies. This domination by liberal media became so complete that Rush Limbaugh claims it was a "monopoly" at the time he began a radio show.

The issue is not whether a publication or network is biased left or right though. The issue is whether the network engages in full disclosure about its politics. Limbaugh is the bestexample here. He makes it completely clear in his beginning "monologue" of every program that he is a conservative and the listener is about to hear 3 hours of conservative opinion (not conservative "news"; "news" should be fact,as devoid of opinon as humanly possible).

The real crime in the media is not that we have conservative media or liberal media. It is that we have political opinion being presented as factual news. And about 98% of this, when it happens, comes from the left.

Ann Coulter wrote an excellent discussion on this in "Slander". So did Bernard Goldberg in "Bias".

Many of the biggest problems in the US today result from the leftmedia's practice over the last 30+ years of presenting leftist political opinon, usually subtly, presumptively, and/or passively as factual "news" and being unchallenged because of the absence of competing opinion.

The best indicator of this was the fact that more people watched the National Convention that nominated the winner in the 2004 Presidential Election on Fox than any other network even though Fox is a cable network and at least three of its competitors are available on both cable and broadcast TV. Other indicators are that more people get their news from Fox than all other cable news shows combined, and all of the successful talk radio hosts are conservatives.

Further evidence, again presented by Ann Coulter in "Slander" is that conservative book sales farexceed liberal book sales. Conservatives generally tend to get their news and information from talk radio and conservative books and publications, which are known to be conservative. Everyone else gets it from major daily papers and liberal TV.

The difference is that cons know they're getting conservative opinion. Others think they're getting unbiased fact when they are actually getting liberal opinion.

wiseone
"The difference is that cons know they're getting conservative opinion. Others think they're getting unbiased fact when they are actually getting liberal opinion."

I don't entirely agree with that. Some people cannot think for themselves on both sides of the coin and accept that what they are told is absolute truth.

I didn't entirely read that much for a long time and then I moved, had a bunch of free time and decided to look into foreign policy. I was reading a book that was not liberal, most likely center right. The book made a reference to April Glaspie's meeting with Hussein. I had never heard of this, didn't see it on the news or History channel, never heard it on talk radio. I found this troubling. Over 50 books and two years later I have come to realize that alot of facts, alot of historical events cannot be found in school textbooks, the news, or talk radio. Most of these things are very important if someone wants to make an educated decision. So yes the media has its biases, but none of the television stations, newspapers, or radio shows ever scrape the top, they wouldn't even be acceptable for cliff notes. If someone is making a decision based on what it sees in TV or Radio media alone, they are not making an educated one.

Finally, I am just curious as to your thoughts on why the Israel's relationship with the US is never covered in depth or discussed in the MSM.

Pitbull and Pam
I wanted to say that no one has polled me. And having "paid the price" by giving a brother to a mortar shell in Vietnam, I feel that your Truth is too special to waste on the likes of G.W., and the others who apparently have no site of their own to use as a litter box, and so seem to gravitate to TH to scatter their scat. Ignore them and keep educating those of us who want reasons to believe that our country is engaged in a fight for the freedom of our children and ourselves to worship as we please and say what we want to politely and thoughtfully and wisely.Thanks for your wisdom Pitbull.

And Pam, I salute you and yours, and if I could, I would thank them all in person over and over again. I will remember your name and therefore remember your special family when I say prayers to the God of my understanding.


Evans & Novak
A Republican pollster has told Novak that if American troops remain in Iraq in 2008, the election in 2008 will be a political bloodbath. Something to keep in mind.

$1.2 TRILLION... ALL CAPS
COST OF THIS WAR.
THAT'S FABULOUS!
I CANT WAIT TO START PAYING THIS WAR BACK!
THANKS FOR THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS MALKIN... THAT'S WHAT YOU DIDNT SEE IN IRAQ.

READ TODAY'S NY TIMES TO SEE WHAT THE US COULD HAVE BOUGHT FOR $1.2 (STOLEN) TRILLION!

$300 MILLION PER DAY THIS MISSION COSTS. AWESOME! I SURE FEEL SAFER.

JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING!

IT IS SO TEMPTING TO GET BANNED!

AND DID MALKIN ASK OUR SOLDIERS HOW IT FEELS TO GET PAID $35,000 PER YEAR AS OPPOSED TO CONTRACTORS/MERCINARIES THAT ARE GETTING $100,000 PER YEAR?

1Legwarrior
Cooled off.
Thank you!!

wiseone
You said that all so well.

jannieb
Your post has convinced me that either you are being sarcastic or neoconservatism is a cult. Some of you people are truly hopeless. Here are some final words:

Empires don't last forever.

Empires end horribly.

America has troops in 135 countries.

You do the math.

All You Neo-CON Twiggies
Sorry I couldn't stay longer for the gutterfest but I had this prior commitment that is known as a 'job' which I have to return to after lunch. I spent way too much time on this wing nut board this morn anyway. At this time I have no time or desire to try further to oil the rusty wheels of the mindless. Yet I will return another day to another thread to remind y'all repeatedly....

THIS NATIONAL DISASTER OF A MAN AND HIS MIS-ADMINISTRATION HAS DAMNED THIS REPUBLIC IN A STRATEGIC MILITARY BLUNDER OF EPIC MAGNITUDE.

Be sure and watch Senator James Webb give his reply to the Twig's State Of Confusion speech.

Impeach & Convict!

Blame
The reason we are to blame is that we went in and changed the government. Whatever events happen under that new government is our responsibility, because it would not exist without our intervention. Just because a Sunni death squad or a Shiite death squad does the killing does not relieve us of our resonsibility of creating the situation that allows these death squads to operate. Even in law it is not only the one who pulls the trigger who is guilty but all accomplices and just by being there we are an accomplice. You cannot invade a country and change the government and say you are not repsonsible for what happens afterwards. We committed a premptive strike, unlike after Pearl Harbor where we were defending ourselves. But even after we won against Japan we established an orderly and peaceful government there. If you choose to invade a country and change the regime then you are responsible for establishing order in that country and there is no order whatsoever in Iraq.

Liberal vs. conservative media
There was a time when it didn't matter whther a publication (or network) was liberal or conservative because they all made an honest effort to report the truth first (as in "on the front page and save their political opinions for the editorial pages.

The Walter Cronkite came out in opposition to the Vietnam War and became a famous media hero for it.

Ever since then the media has shamelessly hawked one side or the other, with the overwhelming majority of the hawking being for liberal policies. This domination by liberal media became so complete that Rush Limbaugh claims it was a "monopoly" at the time he began a radio show.

The issue is not whether a publication or network is biased left or right though. The issue is whether the network engages in full disclosure about its politics. Limbaugh is the bestexample here. He makes it completely clear in his beginning "monologue" of every program that he is a conservative and the listener is about to hear 3 hours of conservative opinion (not conservative "news"; "news" should be fact,as devoid of opinon as humanly possible).

The real crime in the media is not that we have conservative media or liberal media. It is that we have political opinion being presented as factual news. And about 98% of this, when it happens, comes from the left.

Ann Coulter wrote an excellent discussion on this in "Slander". So did Bernard Goldberg in "Bias".

Many of the biggest problems in the US today result from the leftmedia's practice over the last 30+ years of presenting leftist political opinon, usually subtly, presumptively, and/or passively as factual "news" and being unchallenged because of the absence of competing opinion.

The best indicator of this was the fact that more people watched the National Convention that nominated the winner in the 2004 Presidential Election on Fox than any other network even though Fox is a cable network and at least three of its competitors are available on both cable and broadcast TV. Other indicators are that more people get their news from Fox than all other cable news shows combined, and all of the successful talk radio hosts are conservatives.

Further evidence, again presented by Ann Coulter in "Slander" is that conservative book sales farexceed liberal book sales. Conservatives generally tend to get their news and information from talk radio and conservative books and publications, which are known to be conservative. Everyone else gets it from major daily papers and liberal TV.

The difference is that cons know they're getting conservative opinion. Others think they're getting unbiased fact when they are actually getting liberal opinion.

We need more articles like this one.
The Lib comments on MSM lead me to wonder how many of them are just plain naive or maybe are just dishonest enough to think they can find a Conservative someplace who they can trick.

Critical Bill;
If this is what you view as MSM in England I can understand how you can give credibility to MSM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

Howsomever AP&MSM here in America is mainly FICTION spiced with just enough truth to fool the naive.
With all the exposure of MSM here at TH there is no excuse for any of the Libs here to pretend to believe MSM.

Great report Michelle
Thank God - 'He' brought you back to the US safe and sound. Your view is very critical to us back here not getting the whole picture from leading national journalist. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Open The Floodgates

How AMERICAN of us, and I mean that in the very worst sense of the word.

merry_go_boy (correctly) calls them the "distinguished do-gooders in Congress".

God forbid that we in this country should ever try to do good! We don't think it would be such a good idea to allow large numbers of Iraqi refugees into this country. It might not be in our best interests. We might bring in some undesirables, some of the wrong kinds of people.

I wonder what the Iraqi's would have said, had they been given the opportunity to ponder the corresponding questions in the spring of 2003.

"GWB" says at 11:44 am 1/17 -
"Oh the media coverage had her becoming a pessimist? Yeah right, she is the one complaining that the media is not showing the positive things, she is one of the main people telling you not to look at the news, it is all biased and thus the facts be damned, but the media is supposedly changing her mind. The main reason she wanted to go to Iraq was to attack the AP, but that angle got killed early.

So the media that she doesn't trust is changing her opinion of the War, and the conclusion that she ended up with I or anybody who has read her garbage could have predicted before she even went. Absolute BS."

You know,the proof of what a liar you are is in the column that this claptrap is ostensibly about.She never said the media doesn't have an affect.Of course it affects any American who loves those men and women, to hear a non-stop,joyous tallying of their destruction.

She's a human being you you insipid,heartless, phony,twit.If pieces of human fecal matter like yourselves would just shut up so that those on the fence could be persuaded to support this noble mission, there would be no stopping the American Fighting Man.As it is,if your side "wins",he will be made to eat a great big liberal s*it sandwich as they did after Viet Nam and the 30+ years following with all of the lies from your commie lovers and idolized child touchers in Hollyfraud.

A united America: There's nothing she can't do.
Your America: There's nothing she's not guilty of/should keep her promise on.

A pox be upon your house you lying bit of twaddle.

What's missing?
Michelle's observations convince me of what we already know. Generally the true state of progress being made in Iraq is not being accurately reported....(most journalist never leave the 'Green Zone'). It doesn't matter. I feel the approach we have taken will be prolonged if the only tactic is a military one. Another solution is out there. And I have an idea.
The problem is a result of the creation of Israel in '48'. It will never go away as long as the old attitudes move from generation to generation. The Arab speaking population HATES Israel. The reason is because so many Arabs were displaced into the refuge camps that still exist. Hating each other has made all these people nuts and they being consumed by it.
I am of a Lebanese-American family and listened to my elders "grouse" (edited for cleanliness) about Israel my whole life.....right here in the good ol USA. And, these are Christian people!
My ideas is that we must also tackle the problem of HATE that exists on all fronts. Our military will probably be in the middle east for decades and Billion$ to come if we don't.

Whine, whine, whine
Thank God (for those of you who believe) that Tanabear,critical Bill (good name), and all the other snivelers did not control our military during the difficult times in history. They probably would have figured every way we should have surrendered to the British army (after we lost the first few battles) during the Revolutionary War to surrender to the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. It may shock you guys to know that not all our military generals want to win wars. Remember Gen.McClellan during the Civil War who Lincoln replaced with Gen. Grant? Unfortunately, we do not have the Gen Patton model of generals today. All too often the generals of today are McClellan-like in that they who are politicians in waiting, kissing butts to get that next star, rather than leading our soldiers to win military campaigns.
Just because the struggle continues, doesn't mean progress isn't being made. Despite Michelle's reporting of the situation in Iraq the boots on the ground are describing, the arrogance you display, even though you are 5000 miles from the front somehow you know better than they is mind-boggling. As for Michelle needing a military escort while traveling, one of our local police officers who is an outdoor enthusiast said that anyone who hiked in our local forest without a gun was nuts because of the whackos one could encounter.

pitbull-terrier
maybe you should read the ny times article before dismissing it...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business/17leonhardt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

take off the blinders!

sole comment
At first, I just wanted to say how hot Michelle is. Then I figured I might as well put in my two cents worth and agree with Jerubaab and celtic-dragon. Then I saw Kimberly's verbal vomit - what a cow!

Just because.
All the current leadership in America, both parts of the two party money cult in Washington D.C. made these plans and actions what they are.

Now comes truth.

Each morning American fighting men wake up, get into uniform's, check the guns, check the ammo, check the operational plan, check comm's, then into the standard Humvees once more.

Therein within a few minutes or an hour lies the rub. They leave their compound at the same time, "ROE'S", they must take the same route, set by the Iraq Goverment etal "ROE'S", they then drive at the set speeds, they then turn at the same corner where last week an "IED", set off by an "islamic mad mullas" nut case enabler who uses a 12 year old gril to slow the Humvee down as it turns knowing she will be killed by the IED, the IED in fact is placed in the curb hole the prior IED blew last week, which did kill one of the units buds, no legs left! The one who uses an America cell phone to trigger the IED, the cell phone was "shop lifted from a Wal-Mart in the U.S.A. two weeks prior, the islamic thief was "bonded out on the words and deeds of the A.C.L.U." and insane U.S. Courts.

Who knows this to be true.
1. The leaders of both the Democrats and the Republicans.

2. The Generals of all the Armed Forces.

3. The Press. (yes even after 40 years of lies and fraud they still know the smell of truth they just do not change their evil ways)

4. "We the People"

5. Each of you who read this.

6. Every Vietnam Vet who still breaths except the liar and fraud Lt. Kerry.

Only one question remains, will we "allow" this to go on, or will we judge ourselfs or await the judgement of History.

tick tock goes the judgement clock

What I saw.... Michelle
Excellent article. As usual, decisive, well written with Michelle's usual insight and intefrity.
Michelle is a great gift to journalism and , of course to our country.

Arline D

Deluded
It amazes me how many deluded and confused souls poulate the pags of this forum.

I can't believe that seemingly intellegent people continue to buy the great "Conservative Con".

News Flash

1. This war is not a "noble cause" as indicated above. If the same money had been spent promoting capitalism in the Middle East, the reason for the war would by now be almost non-existent.

2. Malkin is a Conservative propogandist, not a reporter. she is simply trying to defend the indefensible on behalf of her conservative masters

3. An armed force is stronger when its troops are not used as cannon fodder in a meaningless war.

4. Those who don't want our soldiers to die needlessly, actually support our troops more than those that do.

5. Bush is infantile, Rice is incompetent, Cheney is evil.

6. Bill was the greatest president of the 20th century..... Bring On Hillary!!!

Nard
Think much?

Thanks for the first good laugh of the day dingbat.

pitbull
I said it yesterday didn't I?

She'd eat that light-weight for breakfast!

I HATE being right all of the time!

Facts.
Bill is and was a shrill shill, still is.
Hildiebeast was a world class enabler still is.

You and they are about 30' from the edge of reason (aka from the cliff) and only the hot air
you and they blow keeps you all aloft, once the
silly wind dies down, its going to be a long
long drop, have fun on the way down.

Think back, did you ever have reason to reason?

pitbull
so open minded! seeing both sides of a story. what exactly makes you credible? you're such a rabble-rouser! if only 'rage against the machine' was still together, they'd have a song called 'pitbull' dont blast them for being commie or whatever, they are just like you... they are you!

that gets you far as a neo-con i guess.

Iraq Trip
Michelle - You stated "I came to Iraq, a darkening pessimist about the war..." You're a liar. Not once have you ever publicly spouted anything but Bush propaganda with regards to Iraq. To imply that you had doubts before the trip but came away convinced that we are doing the right thing is disingenuous at best.

Michelle Malkin Piece
Ra,Ra Ra, support the troops as if they odered themselves to IRAQ, a War BASED ON BLATANT LIES.
Troops do what they are told and have no say in the matter,THEY FOLLOW ORDERS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE TROOPS !
Fully half of the posters on this Wing-Nut board should seriously consider a LOBOTOMY and start from scratch.
Now, which of you has the cajones to step up to the plate and tell me WHY we are still in Iraq.
I'm not the brightest bulb in the room and need a little help on this.

Iraq
Thats what I like,a factual answer from a Mental Giant!
Make an appointment with your to arrange the LOBOTOMY!

NEXT!

pitbull
Is that the best shot?? I'm sure this board has more to offer than a yapping Poodle with 2 brain cells.
This is simple! Why are we in Iraq???

NEXT !

Pitbull & GunnyG
(the names say it all)

Good to see that you were too ignortant to respond with anything substantive. You must really hate this country if you are unwilling to put any critical thinking into a decision to send members of our armed forces to their deaths.

These forces need to be targetted at our enemy. My concern is that, as a result of being led through this debacle by this bunch of feebs, they will be too demoralised to do the job we need them to do.

Oops, its 9.30am!! Better get to your battery powered ice-box "in-back" of your trailer and start chugging on your first frosty one.!

Pitbull
Horrific indeed, and the perpetrators need to be brought to justice.

The majortity of the perps were Saudis trained in Syria and Afghanistan. Why invade a country that had nothing to do with the attack, from which none of the attackers where from, and whose dictator actively supressed the fundamentalist elements that were associated with the attacks?

If you invoke 9/11 as the catalyst, the facts need to back it up. They don't. The war in Iraq has little if anything to do with 9/11, and has, infact, been instrumental in increasing the risk presented by Islamo-fundamentalists.

Stop acting like a hamster and lapping up the drip feed nonsense your masters of disaster trot out. Blind loyalty to a cause is not a quality to be proud of. You should be loyal to your country instead

pitbull
You Moron! Do you even have the ability to write anything that makes any sense? What are smoking??
I'll make this easy for you to understand.
Our Military is in Iraq fighting and getting killed for the oil cartels, Halliburton, the Carlyle Group, The Bushiviks, Ratheon, Brown and root and Blackwater to mention a few.
They are making money by the trainload---It's just that simple. Our troops are Cannon Fodder for the whole slimey bunch.
Too much for you to handle??

pitbull
You didn't disapoint me ! All you right wing nuts have the same modus operendi. Should someone interject an opinion or Fact that diverges from your preconceived paranoia, you RUN like scalded dogs home to mama,throwing insults over your shoulder the whole way, Real stand up people! Total and complete lack of any intestinal fortitude, not to mention backbone. You are afraid of everything and anything!
The OIL moron,is not ours to lay claim to! It belongs to a soveriegn nation!
Now, make the appointment for your LOBOTOMY!

Next! Is this character the best the board has to offer?

pitbull
Hey Poodle, If nothing else, make an appointment
with Dr. Phil ! You're about 3 cans short of a 6 pack ! You DO need help!

Next!! Anybody ??

pitbull
Just as I figured, a Southern Redneck!
That says it all--


pitbull
"my little moonbat" I reasonably deduct I have been conversing, If you can call it that, with a Hairy backed NY broad that makes Ugly Betty look like Miss America.
It's no wonder your so paranoid! A Neo- Nut in NY?
You ate too much tower dust!!! Good Luck- Good Bye!

I'm coming back.
I had begun to doubt the possibility of anything good as a final result in Iraq.

But hearing talk of the problem of clean-up then back out strategy being ended. Hoping that will stop.

Hearing that Maliki has dropped his protection of AlSadr.

Hearing talk of watching the Iran and Syrian border.

I'm beginning to think we might win yet.


Personal injury lawyer on a banana peel?
http://www.givemetheinfo.com/blog/blogger.html

cbgaloot
In case your interested, the Shia and Sunni have been at each others throats in one form or another since the year 632.
Arab society dictates eye for and eye and loalty to ones sect trumps any and all National concerns.
That is why the Iraq war is such a fools folly.
If in fact Malaki has dropped his support for Al Sader, Maliki's life is not worth the the value of his tie, they are both Shia.
Like it or not Iraq is engaged in a sectarion civil war that is not going to stop until such time they have a new King of the hill, a New Sadam to keep the lid on.
Meanwhile, our troops keep dieing!

Pitbull
Make no mistake, the concern is genuine. Do you think the troops feel more underminded by being asked to do their job, or being asked to put their lives on the line for huge mistake based on lies and greed.

I think if it was the later, I would feel very undermined.

Also, this notion that Democrats think that Saddam Hussein was a benign, benevolent overlord could not be further from the truth. I agree with GW, Saddam was a brutal dictator, one of many.

However, in the "war on terror", if you think that the best use of our troops and resources was the war in Iraq, you seriously need to seek help.

We still have not caught Bin Laden

The Taliban is still active

The invasion has promoted Islamic fundamentalism

More Iraqi civilians have died violently as a result of the invasion than under Saddam

Democrats have enough respect for our troops to not ask them to lay down their lives in such a wasteful, manner.... do you?

Here , this makes them run.
Yo, liberal loons, if you will post where we can view Lt. Kerry's full Naval Records or prove the orginal documents we found at the Texas Tech University Vietnam Arcivies are not real, then we will admit you did not support a known,liar, fake awards and citations person with known moments as a traitor while still in the U.S.Navy as he worked with the North Viet Commies in Paris.

What the hell , I'll even give you 60 days to find the Navy records and the rest of time on the fake awards and citations.

Your up.

Would be more impressed if...
If she had flown coach in a crowded troop plane for the 30 hour trip they usually embark on instead of the first class digs she and her entourage enjoyed.

If she had bunked in the tents like the troops instead of a cushy hotel.

If she had been seen with enlisted people instead of primarily officers.

She'll use this week's "embedded with the troops" adventure as fodder for her next book. She was asking for donations at her web site to help defray the cost of the trip.

A huckster by any other name....


Texas Longhorn
She needs to make sure that she keeps her rabies shots on hand in case she is bitten by a moonbat, I heard that they carry rabies and various STD's.

ALL, please check my blog for the stunning reply to Professor Of Moonbats, David A. Bell, who thinks that 9-11 WAS NOT THAT BAD!

Liberals, best served shredded or filleted.

Michelle why won't you apologize?
It's been about five years now since you dismissed the heroic deeds of Asian Medal of Honor recipients in order to launch the PR drive for your "Invasion" book. You dismiss Kerry for his comments about the troops but can't own up to what you did. Yours for profit - his for politics.

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