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Saturday, January 13, 2007
Doug Giles :: Townhall.com Columnist
The South Sucks?
by Doug Giles
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“Mississippi gets more than their fair share back in federal money, but who the hell wants to live in Mississippi?” -Charles Rangle, New York Congressman, 2006

If you listen to the Ditsy Chicks, if you like Rosie O’Doggerel and if you think John Kerry is cool, then more than likely you assume the South sucks. Yep, our current culture has been brow beaten by the loons on the Left into viewing the South as societal swill.

In Hollywood, the hedonistic thought thugs make certain that Southerners are tarred and feathered as inbred, Ricky Bobby, moonshine slammin’, KKKMart shoppin’, fat back eatin’, cousin humpin’ square dancers with three teeth and an IQ of 50.

The liberal Belief Police want America to hate the South because the South represents the Secular Regressive’s (SR) chief political and cultural (and armed, I might add) high hurdle.

The autoerotic “elite,” which form the intellectually line bred gene pool of the soulless Left, are hell bent to bar from our borders all praises and practices of the principles which have made the South substantial. What are the things that make Dixie so darn good? Well, I know it’s hard for those of you who are wedged up Hollywood’s backside to understand our virtues, but its stuff like author Clint Johnson points out in his predestined to be best-seller The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South (and Why it Will Rise Again) . . .

• A strong sense of patriotism that protects the rest of the nation. Dasypygals on the left who incessantly bash the South and hate everything sweet home Alabama stands for ought to eat a little sautéed crow tonight and send the South a thank you card in the morning, as the South makes up the overwhelming majority of the armed forces who protect our country and are willing to take a bullet for these ungrateful and derisive jackasses. The South accounts for 35% of the population, but 41% of the military recruits.

• A conscience about race relations. Johnson states, “The South has never denied its role in perpetuating slavery. The South and only the South have apologized profusely for its role in slavery.” Since the slave days, “black income in the region has steadily increased, neighborhoods have been integrated, black politicians have been elected to major offices, and black business people have emerged to head national corporations. In the south regional patriotism trumps race any old day.” And if the South hates blacks the way the way your lesbian US History teacher says they do, then why, according to the 2003 US Census Bureau, are hundreds of thousands of blacks blowing off the North and moving down South, huh?

• A sense of morals and religion. The fact that we haven’t flushed God and Christ down the toilet, as the anti-Christ secularists want us to do, has made the liberal, tassel-shoed Nancy’s have a hissy. When other sectors of our society are shamefully caving to the godless cabal’s secular agenda and keeping quite about their convictions, the South sits back, yawns, scratches its belly, and then shoots these glib sisters a defiant rebel finger. In addition, no matter how much the liberal Presidential dopefuls play the “we like Jesus and Moses, too” card in the upcoming ’08 election, the South isn’t fooled. We see the fecal fumes coming off their heads. Serious faith is a southern thang, a conservative thang, and not a 21st century liberal thang.

• A welcoming environment for business. WalMart (the world’s largest retailer), Exxon, FedEx, Coca-Cola, Lowe’s, Delta, Krispy Kreme, Toyota, Honda, Saturn, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes and Home Depot (as well as a slew of others) are finding that they don’t need Rust Belt to rake in the cash as the Bible Belt is working mighty fine for them.

• A creative atmosphere. Clint further prods the north by taunting them with their lack of creativity. He states that, “few folks think about ‘northern literature,’ but there is an abundance of southern literature. There’s no such thing as northern music. I’m sorry, rap is a NY derivative. But then again rap is not music. There is, though, country music, southern rock, southern jazz, southern blues and bluegrass. CJ goes on to say that “there is something about southern lovers, rivers, dogs, ex-wives, ex-husbands, magnolias, pine trees, eccentrics, and soldiers that keep writers and musicians inspired. “

• Real men. “Southern men are gentlemen, but they’re also uncompromising, opinionated, and won’t defer to what ‘the group’ wants. . . . ” America needs men who stick by their guns and southern men do just that. Southern men, saith Clint, don’t flip flop; they stick to the convictions and principles they got from their families. Remember families?

• Real women. Unlike the female chauvinist pigs on the Left, Southern women are charming and ladylike and like their menfolk, they have backbones of steel. Also, note to single guys: from Georgia peaches to Mississippi belles, there’s no doubt about it: southern women are prettier. Since the first Miss America pageant in 1921, one-third of the winners have been Southern.

In the latest installment of the bestselling Politically Incorrect Guide™ series, The Politically Incorrect Guide™ to the South (and Why it Will Rise Again), author Clint Johnson exposes the controversial truth—the South is the essence of what’s original, unique, and most-loved about American culture. From the founding fathers to the frontier explorers, rock and roll to the movies, barbecue to sweet tea, NASCAR to NASA, slavery to segregation, no ugly rumor will be left standing in this book (from the press release).

“Today, there is an open, not-at-all-secret conspiracy to erase Dixie and all vestiges of the old South from public memory. The South is all about memory, heritage, and pride of place. I refuse to go along with the expunging of that memory, heritage, and pride. Only those things give us a true understanding of what it means to be a Southerner, and an American,” says Johnson.

And here’s a few more things that secular reality stylists don’t want you to know about the South:

• Southerners wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and Bill of Rights

• The Civil War was not a true civil war, nor was it driven by slavery

• Southern women had independence, equality, and freedom decades before suffrage

• The South, not the West, started the Hollywood movie scene, blues, jazz, and rock and roll

My advice to those who want to engage the secularists in the culture clash: Buy Johnson’s book and get deprogrammed. What Clint has penned about the South is well researched, and it’s funnier than a loud fart in church. You will not here this stuff within the haggard halls of revisionist universities. More than likely, towards the middle of the book (if you love the US and how it was originally constituted) you’ll start whistlin’ Dixie, which was, by the way, one of Abe Lincoln’s favorite songs.

* Logon to www.ClashRadio.com and watch Giles’ new video blurb: “How to be a Soulless Vapid Waste of Space.” In addition, listen to Doug’s interview with hunting/firearms expert and activist, Kelsey Hilderbrand of www.luvtohunt.com . ClashTV can be seen throughout the week on NRB TV DirectTV Channel 378.

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About The Author
Doug Giles’ new book “If You're Going Through Hell, Keep Going!" is now available. Ann Coulter says "Doug Giles is a substantive and funny tour de force for traditional values.” Doug’s talk show and video blog can be seen and heard at www.ClashRadio.com.
 
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You've described most of America
I've found that most of America is much like Giles describes here. I live in North Dakota. Though we can't boast much in the way of music and our food is rather repulsive (lutefisk), we do have the traditional morality.

Even growing up on the East Coast, I saw that most people were decent and moral.

Unfortunately, the self-appointed cultural elites do not value this and, in fact, scorn it. More unfortunately, too many of us still care what they think.

From the west
I've never thought the south was bad but it can't hold a candle to the west. Though the Democrats recently called us a purple state *fume* I had a great time yelling "yeehaw" while attempting to get my new SUV over the 3 feet of snow that was bulldozed in front of my driveway. I can ride a horse, snowboard and I am, of course, always a lady. Greetings from the Centennial State!

Waski the Squirrel
My condolences on North Dakota cuisine. I'd originally heard of lutefisk as a Wisconsin delicacy, but you're in the neighborhood. Try this recipe: Take one piece of lutefisk, place on a pine board, soak both in water for three days changing water twice a day. After the three day soak, remove from water, throw away the lutefisk and eat the board.

Yeehaw.
And don't let nobody tell the South ain't got no culture, neither. We got Creationist museums, the Grand Ole Opry, Branson Missourri, and lotsa NASCAR speedways and Bible camps.

Do any of them fancy museums, symphonies, opera companies, Broadway shows or universities up North hold a candle to that?

- Tammy Snopes
Proud Southern bell and Christian wife

Hallelujah
Doug Giles says it all.

Doug

You made this East Texas pineknot's heart smile!!
Thank you.

Y'all is an idjit.
'Nuff said.

This is a test of integrity of this site
Despite the fact that the info page says "only your nickname will be posted", I see my full name here. Its a fake name. Townhall.com. you need to fix this...

Maybe not
Nevermind... this seems to have been fixed since last time... maybe a bug on my end...

My real post
I went through Hurricane Elizabeth, a tropical storm when it hit Richmond, Virginia, but a bad storm nontheless. It wasn't Katrina, but somehow, my phone and power was out for a week, and 2 weeks later I still saw crews cleaning some rather significant streets in the Fan district.
I used to live in Milwaukee, WI, and been through killer winter storms (by which I mean, people got deaded) with 80+ mile per hour winds, and tons of damage. But I've never dealt with more than a 1 day powerout, and its never more than three days to pick up the millions of tons of snow that have hit and get em out of the way. When I was walking past the clean up crews in RVA, I noticed on a number of occasions that the earthmovers they were using were squealing and growning like unholy monsters, and I just kept thinking "what the hell is wrong with you people? Grease those damn things."
When I was delivering fuel to earthmovers up in WI, I kept seeing stickers everywhere on those machines saying "I Need Grease To Live". These big machines are expensive and cost a lot to fix and replace.
Then I started thinking, "is this an example of where my northern tax money goes? To pay for fixing this kinda stupidity?"

On the other hand, Those boys down in Oregon Hill (the "redneck" neighborhood in the city) all came out of there houses the day after Lizzie struck, and had our neighborhood cleaned and cleared of downed trees by nightfall. They "gotter done". And as for the rest of the south, I guess I did hear a lot from southerners from outside of RVA that they didn't really think that Richmond counted as southern. It is the capital of the confederacy though, so that one is a poser....

I've met some of the best people you can know, but I've met some real mushmouthed knuckledraggers and straight arrogant idiots. So I dunno about all of this. Theres definite problems down there. Coming from the city that makes PBR, I kinda think the south might rise again if they get up offen that there porch and set down the beer we made 'em fer once.

Jeeso Crypo, Hey... doncha know... Aina?

You might be a redneck if...
...This story made you want to stand up and holler, "Amen! Preach it Brother Giles!" :-)

giles
united states citizen by birth
southern by the grace of god


To fly in the ointment
I've met some of the best people you can know, but I've met some real mushmouthed knuckledraggers and straight arrogant idiots.

I've lived in upstate New York, North Chicago, Bremerton Washington, Alameda California, and lot more assorted places around the United States and I can say the same thing.

I can also tell you that getting power back following a hurrican is a lot harder than getting it back following more localized wind storms. The biggest problem is getting the downed trees out of the way. If we could get rid of the trees around the power lines you wouldn't lose power as often and it would be a lot faster to restore it when you did. So all you greenies hug a tree hugger today.

Hey Ya'll!
God almighty! I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed this column. I am a 57 year old Vietnam era Navy veteran and a native North Carolinian. I am the proudest of a proud "Southerner"! This column is "us"! I had a Yankee ask me not long ago,"when we were going to stop fighting the Civil War down here"? I just looked at him, didn't even flinch and said, " the day we win". And we are winning now. They sure as heck isn't anybody down here retiring and moving to Philly or Boston! Got to go, I need to get the dogs out from under my front porch.

Hint of truth
The trouble is that there is a hint of truth in all stereotypes.

I agree with the essence of this piece, although some of the later assertions, and all of the colloquialisms, are over the top.

The South serves as a model for how to mend rifts in race relations.

fly in the ointment
Funny seeing "Oregon Hill" and "The Fan District" mentioned. I've lived in both, Pine St. and Grace St. Loved Richmond.

Might still be living down South if I could just get to liking humidity as much as I like snow.

As a yankee
by birth who came south almost 50 years ago when I joined the Navy, I agree with Doug.
I have lived all over this land and love every inch of it, but it is just better down south.
More common sense and less busybody politicians although we are getting our share.
When I see the pure crap that my kids put up with from the pols and bureacrats in NJ, I want to scream.
You have no freedom in the north, you just think you do.

Mac
My attitude on the "when will the South forget about the War between the States" is "when the North stops Reconstruction."

I remember American Airlines moving from NY to TX. They moved there for better living conditions for employees and better tax structure for both company and employees.


Catfish and Grits...
I have loved the South since my days at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, the smell of fresh pine and the early morning dew on the grass, you just can't beat that with a baseball bat. And I can't forget the 'CATFISH AND GRITS'.

Forgive me
For being pedantic, but 41 per cent ain't an "overwhelming majority" in my book, nor should it be in anyone's...

Mixed bag
I'm sorry, but I can't get all worked up about how great people are anywhere. I'm not an extensive world traveler, but I've found that there are people on both ends of spectrum anywhere you go. Of course the exception to that would more than likely be France (which kinda causes self loathing since I'm 1/4 French Canadian. It's a LeGros thing).

I grew up in sunny SoCal and had great friends but also know great imbeciles and impolite ne'er-do-wells. I moved to Kentucky with my family 14 years ago at age 33. Upon hearing of my impending move, I heard it all. From salt of the earth generous people to inbred, rednecks that hate anyone that's not local. Truth be told, I may not have met everyone, but I've met enough people to fulfill prophecies foretold to me.

So, this is how I proceed. I view everyone as a sinner in need of grace. I think of the grace I've received and do my best to extend that to the fallen people God puts in my life.

To Critical Bill
Yes, technically its a plurality, but that doesn't detract from the point that he is trying to make.

Forgive me
I think his point was - "from 35% of the population."

Well, except for NA$CAR
I'm a racing fan and NA$CAR is not racing; it is entertainment. (I have heard other racing people say it's in fact an offshoot of the Baptist Church.)

Otherwise, you're pretty much on the mark IMO. I have lived in Alabama, Tennessee and Georgia in the South, California, Idaho and New York in the North; and the culture shock in each of those places is greater than that between Belgium and France, or the German and French sectors of Switzerland for that matter. The greatest difference I have found is that in the North, nobody will speak to you except to cuss and yell "Get out of my ****ing way!" unless their grandparents were introduced to your grandparents. Southerners will 'speak' whether they know you or not. The entire atmosphere is just more relaxed. On the other hand, if there's one thing I never want to hear again it's "Do whut, now?" which is the phrase that greets your explanation of what it is you need done right away, or what it is you want to buy. This is Southern for "I'm sorry, I wasn't paying the least bit of attention to what you just said." And then there's "Bless your heart" which greets your lament. This is Southern for "F*** you" or "You sure are stupid."

Nevertheless, when a Southerner says he'll do something, he'll do it; they realize that 99% of life is about showing up, and they show up. That's the biggest difference between the North and the South. Northerners holler a lot, but there's nothing behind the bluff and bluster. They want YOU to do something; they're outa here.

And today the average Southerner is a former Northerner. When the coach of the New Jersey Devils said disdainfully that it was no use putting a hockey team in North Carolina because people there sat around on hay bales and didn't wear shoes, the outrage he stirred up had a distinctly Boston accent -- the people in the new home of the Carolina Hurricanes are largely transplants from Boston. You'll also find a lot of former Western New Yorkers there, as the factories and plants they used to work for Up North have moved to this right-to-work state.

And as far as auto plants go, one of the biggest and fastest-growing is the Hyundai complex outside Montgomery, Alabama. They have tough hiring standards and those who can't pass criminal background checks and drug screening aren't going to get in, so it won't be too long until this has a profound effect on the behaviour of the young people in the countryside. Hyundai has also employed a large percentage of those who fled New Orleans after Katrina and who are now learning that there's another life besides festering in welfare ghettos world without end amen. One of the really big advantages to working for Hyundai or Saturn or Toyota or Mercedes in the South is the absolute lack of unions.

And whine all you want about Wal-Mart destroying the 'front porch' grocery stores -- well, the one in Greenville, Alabama where Mama worked until she turned 79 and we convinced her to retire, is the social centre of the area and lots of people go there specifically to meet their friends, to walk when it's too hot to be outside, and to tell their troubles to the Greeters who often are almost their only connection left to the community as the children have moved away. (The saddest outcome of the Civil Rights Act in many small southern towns has been the devastation of the public school system, which has led many with children to move where there are good private schools instead.)

If only we can prevent the Northern carpetbaggers from doing to the South what the Californians have done to Oregon and Washington, perhaps this book won't be a quaint and wistful reminder of the good old days, not unlike Gone with the Wind.....

mostly agree
I mostly agree with Mr. Giles, and it looks like it pulled a great amount of attaboys. Being from the "great lake" state and living in S.C. one year while at college, I'll agree there is a "southern culture" that is extremely uplifting. I would drive around those mountain roads and the people that were out and about, they would ALL wave as I drove by. People at places of business were especially friendly, as well as passersby. There seems to be a lot of "faith" in practice in everyday lives, but this is all in general. The soap box gets a little too high though when Mr. Giles infers the Civil War was not primarily over slavery. This is a triait of bullheadednes I have noticed in many southern people, as "don't confuse me with the facts"! As a student of History, and having studied and read of the conflict, I would have to take strong issue. It's not to say that things haven't turned around as he noted, but lets not get carried away. I do know its Biblical to talk southern as the apostle Paul does use the word "reckon" in his letters. May the good of the south continue!

Dixie
Waski is right. Most of America outside the major cities and southern CA shares the same values. It's the self-appointed elite that don't get it. In the South it's venison or fish and grits. In the Midwest it's homegrown meat and mashed potatoes with noodle gravy, and so on for other regions. We were all raised to worship God and take care of our families. We were all taught that when the Country needs your services, you go fight whether you agree or not. The most important thing any of us of like mind can do is vote and push others to vote. Make it easier for people to register and to vote absentee ballots if they travel in their work. If there's no one running that you can believe in, recruit someone or run yourself. We are the majority and can keep this country on the right track if we stick together. It takes a lot of coherent voices speaking in unison to drown out the Left's collective whine.

my 2 cents
You're right - the women down south are prettier and they act like women - As in NOT men.

But I love it here - I've been here 2 1/2 years and I have yet to lock the house when I leave - once for a month. I have yet to take the keys out of the car at night. You can't buy that.

And every now and then I have a chorus of coyotes screaming at each other about some damn thing or other to sing me to sleep.

Another good thing - if I wanna go outside to p I go outside to p. Can't buy THAT either.

And I live ON a dirt road OFF a dirt road.

AND - The forecasters say that we're finally gonna get some SNOW in the next few days. I've got books and candles and blankets and food and my L.L. Bean longjohns (you don't wanna see me dressed in just them - not a pretty sight) so BRING IT ON.

Plus I just found a new Church to go to worship and to top it all - I live in America.

Lucky me

Amen!
"Preach it Brother Giles!"
(I s'wan Jenn you beat me to it!)

I spent my many wonderful years of my childhood living on Perdido Bay and in "the real Florida." I miss the south. I've lived all over the world. Now I live in Chicago. I have to continually re-educate my kids on the "the South." They get such biggoted inoformation from TV and even in school. It's sad.





1 more thing
the dixie chicks have been making serious hay from that remark ever since they made it almost 4 years ago.

Quickie quiz - Can anyone name his or her favorite dixie chicks song? I can't - I have listened to them and I have come to the conclusion that they are smart MARKETERS who have wrung every possible mile (so far) out of that remark - has anyone out there ever seen an interview with them since then that does NOT lead with that remark and its effects? They are STILL riding on it - They pose as defenders of freedom of the press,, yada, yada, yada, drop a reference or two to 'death-threats' (no proof of course) and gaze nobly at the camera after making sure there's plenty of (nice) skin showing.

They are smart enough to hire good publicists and top notch Nashville musicians (is there any other kind?) and show lotsa skin when they perform but musically they are

lightweights.

Pass the grits!
Couldn't have said it better myself. Pass the grits!

In case anyone is interested
I have a post at my blog about this suject that was up a couple of weeks ago! I'm from the South and my biased eyes see great things here, come over to the Spade and see what I'm talking about!

To Tom;
Don’t get the idea that the below post means that I support slavery but I offer the following:

The War Between The States was over slavery in much the same manner as the current war is over oil. If it wasn’t for slavery there would have been no war. To say that the war was totally over slavery is also not correct. Don’t forget the tariffs of abomination and the other regional differences. I personally think the war was like most other wars, a major misunderstanding over economic issues. 90% of the economy of the South was tied into slavery in one way or another. When the South reached the conclusion that the North no longer cared about their economic concerns and thought that Lincold would support the radical abolitionists, war was inevitable.

When the war and “reconstruction” was over the South was economically destitute. A condition that has still not been completely recovered in over 150 years.

One thing I wish the South had more of:
Bookstores. The RURAL South, that is. I grew up in the southern part of Georgia, so I know whereof I speak. Where I lived for most of my young life, our family had to drive for two hours to get to the closest decent bookstore, and that was hellish for someone like me. Sure, I could always go to the local library, but I like to OWN books, to have them and keep them in my house and read them multiple times at my leisure. Books give a house character. Libraries are wonderful but they aren't enough.

Now I live in the northern part of the state, about an hour's drive from Atlanta, and I have good access to bookstores. I love it. It's making me broke, but I love it. I have no desire to move up north; yet I likewise have no desire to return to the predominantly rural southern half of Georgia, where the bookstores are so few and far between. I asked the head of my hometown Chamber of Commerce why we couldn't bring a good new bookstore (at least a Books-a-Million, if not a Borders or Barnes & Noble) to the town, and he told me bluntly, "The business would fail. There's not enough demand for it."

And so I'm left wondering: is reading an URBAN thing? Is it something only people in the cities do?? Surely not. Why, then, wouldn't a bookstore thrive in a small south Georgia town?
The North has this ONE advantage over the South: since most of the northern states are much smaller in terms of land space, a small-town citizen up there never has to drive very far to find himself in an urban area, with bookstores and the other joys of the City (museums, theaters, restaurants that stay open past 10 p.m. and stores that stay open past 7 p.m.). A Southerner (particularly a Georgian) who loves those things had better pray her car gets good gas mileage.

Yet in all other things, I do concur with Doug: the South is a beautiful and wondrous place, and it has given rise to so much that is priceless. Mark Twain. William Faulkner. Eudora Welty. Flannery O'Connor. Robert Penn Warren. Zora Neale Hurston. Jim Henson (yes, he was a Mississippi boy). Louis Armstrong. Billie Holliday. Ella Fitzgerald.

Keep NASCAR, if you like. I'll take these names I've mentioned. They are the South I'm proud of -- the creative and joyous South.

As a Northern transplant...
Let me just give a hearty "HE11 YEAH!" to Giles' column. I can't wait to get that book. I was born and lived 18 years in New York(unfortunately) and saw what Northern liberalism wreaks on its citizens. 32 years of liberal rule (and those of you who don't think Pataki is a lib, wake up!) has destroyed the infrastructure of New York and caused much of the Northern flight South (not to mention the horrendous weather). Having lived a little over 10 years in North Carolina I have to say that for the most part, when I encounter a rude, loud or offensive person here, they are speaking with a northern accent. That isn't to say I haven't met any rude Southerners, but they are few and far between, in my experience. My only question is this: I have a Southern wife, and two Southern Belles as daughters. Am I naturalized yet? LOL

Out here in "flyover country"
We all can identify with Giles' column. I have a theory why there are so many liberal/socialists in the NE: when the westward expansion began, most of the self-starters migrated out of the settled areas and by their initiative, hard work and courage, carved out a new home and had children. These hardy offspring, having the same adventurous genes, kept moving into new territory and eventually tamed the frontier where their descendants still live.

The gene pool left in the NE was filled with less ambitious types, satisfied with the status quo and eventually dominated by elite politicos feeding them crapola that they're superior to the the "hicks in the sticks" because they were more cosmopolitan and "enlightened." Unfortunately, most of what they think they know, is just wrong. If you talk to any citizen on the street in NYC, Boston or Philly, they look a lot like those idiots stuffing their pie holes with cheesesteak sandwiches in a recent disgusting TV commercial. At least any Southern Bubba in a pickup truck full of hunting dogs and a nice rifle in the rack knows how to procure and prepare his own food. Put a New Yorker out in the woods, and he'll break down in total panic within minutes, wet his pants and call for his mommy.

As an over-the-road trucker for many years, I traveled in and out of 47 of 48 states of the lower US (missed Maine, oh well), and met and talked to the people. I found whites in the NE plus Chicago and Detroit, to be rude, abrasive, lazy, corrupt and bigoted. There is an underlying racial tension causing blacks to be generally reserved and defensive until disarmed with a friendly smile, which allows them to see you aren't just another cracker with an racist attitude like those they deal with daily. If I wanted to get unloaded or reloaded in a timely fashion, I sought out the hardest working people, almost always black, to get the job done. The white guys would be the people who stayed in the office or on extended breaks, acting self-important, and perpetuating a subtle plantation system.

Southerners on the other hand are friendly, polite and open, unless you have a NE accent which they'll immediately associate with the previously mentioned attitudes. Even the lowest born are mannerly and helpful and that includes black and white, men, women and children. People there have a common work ethic, stand shoulder to shoulder and attack the task at hand (except New Orleans, a liberal/socialist bastion) as opposed to the prevalent "not my job, man" attitude say, on the docks at Newark (which are very Italian, if you know what I mean).

Western states, except the major ocean ports, are pretty much the same as the South, minus the accents. One thing becoming more and more common at any dock or delivery site across the country; if you don't speak and understand a little Espanol, chances are you'll be ignored.

The West coast ports are almost as bad as the East for poor attitudes. I blame it on the union mentality of less work for more money. When you roll in, you get the "What do you want? Don't bother me. Get the f**k out!" Not always, but usually not what you would call friendly. Although downright stupid truck drivers must take some blame on themselves for this attitude.

Speaking for myself, I would rather be a dirt poor cracker in the South than a filthy rich snob in NYC any day, mostly because I love Southern Belles. Southern woman are simply the best - sweet, cultured, beautiful inside and out. Woman from the upper Eastern seaboard are shrill, foul mouthed, opinionated, nauseating, liberal harpies. That's probably why Hillary settled there.

rjas2330
Actually here in Florida, we just assume that after 6 months or so the Yankees smart enough or lucky enough to come down here will only leave under serious duress. Of course, so many are moving here that the culture has had to adjust. North Carolina is a bit more traditional in most areas, but if you play the game, i would think they would give you the name. Down here it does speed things up a bit if one puts on bumper stickers like " I don't care how you did it up north" and "Just spend some money and go home".
I truly believe that the values that made America America are more common down here. and out West, than on the coasts.

Why the relocation?
Here in central N.C., about a third of our recent population growth has been northerners. Not that this is a bad thing. But why would folks from Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York. Michigan, and other liberal utopias want to move here? Seek to relocate among these knuckle dragging, gun toting, single tooth individualist anyway?

We have a town close to Raleigh, called Cary. We call it the concentrated area of relocated Yankees!

Just remember, we don't care how you did it up north! It seems to me that if any group wants to rehash the civil war, its the Marxist in the north.

I must admit though, I thought the good folks of rural Ohio were as professional and polite as southerners.
It just seems the nut jobs in any state get the most press!


and another thing
I've spent most of my life in New York & New England, with a collegiate interlude in California, but am fortunate to have southern relations, whom I unfortunately do not see often enough.

I like our whole country. I'm immensely grateful that it has remained united since 1865 and I hope we never let minor differences get in the way of seeing the large advantages. What regional differences remain are charming rather than acrimonious, for the most part.

I second everything Mr. Giles mentions about the South, particularly the patriotism. There's a strain of spoiled-brat ingratitude up here in Yankeeland which bothers me. "Things are adequate, but why can't they be much, much better? If we could just tax those rich people heavier and give the money to me & my pals, it'd be near perfect!"

From my too-limited travels through the South, I'd say the region has a sense of tragic irony that the rest of the country lacks. During the Viet Nam period, a lot of people were running around here saying, "America has never lost a war!" (Forgetting of course, the War of 1812). Southerners don't think like that. They did lose a war; were forced to change a way of life, but it hasn't demoralized the region. IMHO, the South HAS risen again, not only economically, but also to the extent of embracing civil rights for minorities as well -- to the benefit of the whole country.

Mr. Giles might have added that southerners are more polite in the day to day sense of greeting strangers pleasantly, not skipping or hurrying through introductions and not driving maniacally in difficult traffic. The food, too; don't leave out the food! My personal favorite for American regional flavor is Southern Low Country cooking of the South Carolina through Georgia variety.

There are pretty girls all over the country. Thank goodness no Taliban has managed to closet them. But in Charleston, S.C., they still wear dresses in town; they don't try to masquerade as their brothers and fathers as they sometimes do in northern cities.

And another thing -- I don't mind the weather. Hot & humid is just fine. Wet is good. The deep fragrances of Southern forests and gardens, the immense fertility of the flood plains and ancient fields; it all suits me fine.

New England, except for the winter weather, is a good place to live also. Widespread commitment to education is genuine. If it seems anti-religious to other regions, you might also see it as a passion for the intellect. We have our regional ironies, too. New England's commitments to the fine arts and conservation are genuine. The former provides a civilized lifestyle and the latter provides numerous quiet corners in the most densely populated region of the country.

Dang!
There was so much name calling in this article that I learned that only good folks live in the south and no where else in the US. The author groups people into categories of people he doesn't care for and calls them names. I'm a virginian and like the friendliness of southern people and the food traditional in the area, but we have our warts like other parts of the country. We are all americans and need to focus on the good we all can offer. People outside of the south are not the enemy out to get them; how paranoid and over the top. The author is so defensive about the south that it is clearly a problem he should get therapy for. There is no balance or critical thinking here; he just wants to 'stir the puddin'' as Neal Boortz says. Get people fired up emotionally without making them actually consider what they are getting fired up about. This article was a waste of time.

typical South
Get on an elevator in the North and you can hear a pin drop, get on an elevator in the South and you will hear "Good mornin', good afternoon etc. and strike up a conversation. Another thing different in the South is the discussion of religion. Southerners are not afraid to talk about the Bible, openly discuss religion, and overwhelmingly attend church more often than anywhere else in the U.S. I think what Southerners desire most is for the government to stay out of their lives, just leave us alone....

Tannabear and Robin
I agree with you Tannabear

Robin,
I must disagree with at least part of what you say. Hollywood does portray Southerners as ignorant and slow of mind. They seem to think the Beverly Hillbillies" was a documentary.

Ignorance is not specific to one locale. Witness the results when Jay Leno or Sean Hannity go out on the streets and ask questions like "Can you recite the Pledge of Allegiance?" or can you identify this person? (showing a picture of Ms. Pelosi).

The South Sucks???
"I don't think so, Tim," as the saying goes from the old tv series. If the so-called Dixie Chicks represent us, then we are all in trouble...By the way, I sure would like to know how they came up with that name anyway?? Anyone know? That sure don't fly. I find it interesting that some tv shows today are finally acknowledging that there was and has been - gasp - discrimination big-time in places like Philadelphia, etc. all around the USA that wasn't even close to the South. Go figure...and now we are at the point that we are supposed to apologize and throw out all our Confederate flags, tags, key chains, the song, "Dixie," and anything relating to it because if we don't then we are preudiced pigs of old. Well, you will just have to excuse me, but my black friends know that my Confederate tag on my vehicle and my Confederate key chain that plays "Dixie," and my Confederate flags in my home are going to stay and it doesn't bother them one bit...even if it did, so what? I don't tell them what to have in their homes, on their vehicles, etc. so why should they? That is a lie formed in hell if I ever heard one.
And Florida should be included - we are often left out of - the fact that we are a part of the South...don't forget us, please.
And, like the character attorney in The Devil's Advocate said, "Go Gators," and the character Charlize Theron played replied, "Damn straight." (Or something along those lines)...anyway, Gators forever. South forever. We need a break from all this lunacy of how awful we are. Thanks for letting us express ourselves.
A. J.
Perry, Florida

Northern Writers
Hate to disagree with Doug but there are several distinctly northern writers I can name with but a second's thought: Melville, Emerson, Thoreau, Hawthorne, Longfellow and probably a few more if I thought about it. (Pynchon can probably be included, even if his current residence is unknown.) Each of the five (or six) I named do have a distinctly "northern" character, just as the southerners have a distinctive literary style.

So, sorry Doug, but creativity is not distinctly souther.

Robin
Don't tell me you haven't heard the stereotypes spewed by the loony left. How Jesus land seeks to destroy the constitution and install a talaban like theocracy.

Bloviating about how backward and stupid we are. Perhaps some of our northern brothers need to be reminded of the fact that they started the death nail that killed limited government.

And Lincoln started corporate welfare.(remember the railroad, built with taxpayer money, which we the people who paid for it had to pay to use it?)

He made Bush look like a begginer!

roadmaster

Too bad you missed Maine in your travels. It's the most distinctive of northeastern states -- bucolic, hard-working and friendly; it even has a slower-spoken accent.

My accent is not "toity-toid street" but I can't say three words in the South before they know I'm not a local. Nevertheless, I've never encountered a trace of crabbiness or snobbery there.

Your theories about the NE gene pool and "opinionated, liberal harpies" have an historical basis. New England was a maritime region early on with heavy interests in shipping, commercial fishing and whaling -- staffed almost exclusively by men. Then it was heavily depopulated of young men during the California gold rush. During the early industrial period, the textile mills were mainly staffed with country girls herded into towns from farms abandoned after the Erie Canal made New England farming uneconomical.

Consequently, a large proportion of Northeastern women became accustomed to being left to their own devices. New England was also one the first region to develop a moneyed aristocracy, with little reluctance to will fortunes to women. It doesn't jibe with the self-proclaimed, puritan tradition, but it's true just the same. Early New England fortunes financed the top tier of women's colleges: Smith, Wellesley, etc. Put all these things together and you end up with a heavily feminized social structure run by women who have for generations been doing exactly as they damn well please.

The gene pool keeps getting replenished by ambitious immigrants, so you needn't worry too much. In Massachusetts, for example, the original English stock is outnumbered by Irish more than two to one; Rhode Island is predominantly Italian. The region isn't the magnet for immigration it once was, but there are still Brazilians coming in; plus the universities and high tech industries attract people from everywhere.

roadmaster: "opinionated"?
You say that like it's a bad thing.

I'm a Southern gal, and I can tell you, I'm pretty darn opinionated. So are my Southern belle friends. We can tell you what books we like and why; we can discuss the merits of Lewis, Tolkien, Bradbury, Asimov, Austen and Dickens; we can express our dislike for that dorkette who wants to ban "Harry Potter" from Gwinnett County libraries, the very sort of person who disgraces our beloved South with her attempts to meddle in the lives and reading choices of others. We can talk to you about the US action in Iraq and our support for our troops and our distrust of the Saudis (specifically, those Saudis who would trap schoolgirls in burning buildings). We can discuss history and philosophy. But we can also talk about who's going to win, and who we think SHOULD win, on Oscar night; we can even discuss who's going to win the SEC Football Championship. We do NOT spend all our time giggling over Paris Hilton's latest sexcapades and tweaking Britney Spears' wardrobe choices. We have a word for those women who have no opinions whatsoever beyond what color the drapes should be. We call them "boring."

There is one crucial difference between us and the kind of women you describe: we do understand the art of give and take in a conversation. We know how to listen as well as talk, and how to respect the opinions of others (as long as they can support those opinions with logic and examples). We may know how to give advice, but we also know how to take it. We can own up to our mistakes. But when we know we're right, we don't back down. We hold our ground, but we explain our points and back them up with specifics; we don't shout.

All the same, having opinions can't possibly be a bad thing unless they're all the WRONG opinions. I doubt I'd feel much in the way of friendship for those "Southern belles" whose opinions and ideas go no further than who's dating whom and who's wearing what. What's more, any sensible man would tire of them quickly. Jane Austen, a far wiser woman than I, said it best: "Men with sense do not want silly wives."

rjas2300: You ARE a Southerner. The place to whom you choose to give your allegiance says a heckuva lot more about you and your values than the place in which you happened to be born.

I'm a northerner - closest S I been is
Southside of Chicago. Don't have relatives down South, nothing. But an abiding respect built from those I have known that came from the South.

Absolutely DETEST what the hollywood types say about anything Southern.

But I tend to agree more with those who say good people CAN be found anywhere - it just may be easier in some places.

Thank God for the South!
Half of the roots from my family tree are in the South, and I can guarantee you that they are an amazing bunch of folks!

We often talk about the American Civil War but I wonder how often people stop and consider that the side that lost turns out to be the most patriotic among us?

Their financial base collapsed with the removal of slavery, and for whom it took a century to recover from the subsequent depression. Yet they are the most enthusiastic supporters of the country.

I wonder how often they have been thanked for this?

I have never heard it anywhere.

Some of these posts make me hungry!
Low-country boil, blue crabs, the freshest and fattest wild shrimp, catfish, bass, too much other seafood/game to mention. This is not to mention a great breakfast of eggs, country-fried ham, grits smothered in butter or red-eye gravy, buscuits with sausage gravy.

Reminds me of an apocryphal story about a Northern couple that had been driving all night and stopped in a small Southern diner for breakfast. When their order came to the table the man eyed the mound of steaming white smothered in butter and asked the waitress, "What is that?"

She answered, "Oh honey, them's grits."

"But I didn't order them," was his answer.

The waitress smiled gently and said, "Now don't you worry, grits is like grace, it just comes."

:-)

Hollywood
Just a thought

Of course Hollyoowd types don't like the south. Why you go down south you see guys walking along with a girl holding hands, you see girls loving guys, why to the hollywood princess boys this is not right.

Sucking South
The southern part of the US has begun to suck. It started when all the yankee rejects relocated in Atlanta, Birmingham, Houston, Dallas, et al. We will not discuss the loss of Florida.

They, like all migraters, decided immediately that since the new society did not do things exactly as they did in the decaying places they left, and since they were much smarter, it needed to change to be more like 'home'. Western settlers did it, Italians have done it, Chinese have done it, Greeks, Russians and lately the Mexican's have done it. They want their country in the new location. They have no interest in assimilation and there has been little or no adjustment to the new culture and values. It is all about the manna. We no longer have a common language, and I read of late that we no longer have a common currency. How long can we stand?

Divided we fall.

Donaldd- Texas Southern?
I guess those Eastern Texans may consider themselves Southern, but I have always considered Texans to be Westerners, and more specifically South Westerners.

And of course, if you are a Westerner, then it is natural to be a Cowboy.

What we Westerners resent are those New York Limosine Liberals who move into town and try to turn every thing into New York. If they like those "Canyons of Steel" then they should stay home and stop blocking our "Big Sky Country" views with their mess.

Just kidding.

Not really.

The South Sucks?
Touché

Hold on...
"the South makes up the overwhelming majority of the armed forces who protect our country and are willing to take a bullet for these ungrateful and derisive jackasses. The South accounts for 35% of the population, but 41% of the military recruits. "

Perhaps math isn't taught down South. Since when is 41% an 'overwhelming majority'?

Donaldd - are you kidding?
-or were you just college educated?

Who the heck fired on Fort Sumter, the Martians?

You are a typical Leftie: having an obsessive hatred of the President, you are willing to say any foolish thing to make a stupid point.

If you are really a Southerner, you will probably get laughed out of town, unless you live near Ted Turner.

Hustler
Don't count North Florida out of the South (yet). Granted the Yankee explosion has been moving up the peninsula from Miami for years and has pretty much subsumed from Orlando south, with some notable enclaves.

That's part of the reason a report was issued a couple of days ago that more people are moving out of the state than are moving in. As tax and send liberals move in they bring their misguided economic policies with them and eventually property taxes and other local taxes inexorably start heading up.

We still don't have a state income tax and, in many areas of North Florida, resist the arguments that we have to raise taxes to "provide more services." Despite the pleas of local columnists in our newspapers that it is the government's "duty" to take care of our "less fortunate" we tend to reply BULL.

If someone needs a job, help them get it. If they want to sit on their fanny and let someone else take care of them then too darn bad.

We take care of those who are truly in need, but it's our personal duty to do that, not the government with the use of its police power.

sorry
Should have been tax and spend.

Exactly, Pamela
Opinionated doesn't mean intelligent. You hit the nail on the head when you mention the conversational skills. I've dated some East Coast wimmin lately and as soon as I expressed some conservative views or talked about my Christianity, things rapidly went down hill from there. I was castigated for being, backward, superstitious, and a unenlightened moron blindly following Rush and Bush.

A Southern lady on the other hand, with the remote chance she's liberal, would have politely said, "Well bless your heart."

Hustler- the same thing happened here
Hustler writes: Saturday, January, 13, 2007 10:58 AM
"The southern part of the US has begun to suck. It started when all the yankee rejects relocated in Atlanta, Birmingham, Houston, Dallas, et al. We will not discuss the loss of Florida."
***************************************

I agree. California used to be more conservative- remember Ronald Reagan was our Governer at one point.

But then all the New Yorkers moved in and took over the movie industry, and started hounding the police until they were wimpified, and then let all the illegal aliens in.

Suddenly we are turning overnight into a "worker's paradise" with the help of our supposedly Republican Governer, Arnold Schwartzenegger, who seems to be channeling his Uncle-in-law, Teddy Kennedy.

Southerners!

Don't let this happen to you!



To Pamela
I know what you are talking about. I grew up in Dublin Ga (middle of the state). Although not as bad as the areas down around Valdosta, it was still a long drive to get anything. Mostly we went to Macon and sometimes Atlanta. I now live in a small town in SC but I am not very far from a large town. Anyway, with the Internet you are never very far from any bookstore and with the freeways, which weren't around in the 50s and early 60s, you can get around a lot quicker.

I said earlier that I had lived all over the country while I was in the Navy, but when all was said and done I came back to the South. I just hope the South retains its special character. Evidence is mounting that this is happening.

love/hate
Love the South.
Hate kudzu!

Southerners, slavery and the Civil War
As one who grew up in a border state and who lived in the deep south for a number of years, I too realize that the northeastern view of the south and southerners is somewhat warped.

I also agree with many of the points made here: the center of American culture is clearly in the south. Identifiably American music is entirely southern (being a blend of Celtic and African influences), and southerners also dominate in literature.

I agree that southern women are clearly more physically attractive than northern women, but I suspect that has more to do with climate than with culture. Southern California women are pretty good looking too. I think it's because they can wear skimpy clothes more months of the year, so they don't have as much time to get out of shape.

But on the subjects of slavery, race and the Civil War, I find many southerners are all wet. In fact, their attitude reminds of that of many Germans after World War II who were in denial, not only about the Holocaust, but about the fact that German aggression started the war.

First of all, it WAS a Civil War, not a "War Between the States" (confederate nationalists always insist on capitalizing it). Southern opinion was by no means unanimously pro-secessionist. This would certainly be true if you counted the opinions of black southerners.
And northern opinion was neither unanimously anti-secessionist nor anti-slavery.

Second, secession and Civil War was about slavery and ONLY about slavery. Every dispute between north and south from 1820 onwards was about slavery...whether it could be extended to the territories, whether new states were admitted as slave or free, whether slave owners could take their "property" into free states. Yes, there were northerners who wanted to interfere with the southerners' "peculiar institution". But the "peculiar institution" they wanted to interfere with was slavery.

Third, (and this is for the benefit of Donaldd, who thinks black people should be grateful to John Wilkes Booth) the north did not "attack" the south. The first shots were fired by confederates, who had already seized almost every federal installation in the south. The federal government refused to surrender Ft. Sumter. If you think responding to the attack on Ft. Sumter was yankee "aggression", how do you think the U. S. would respond to a Cuban attack on our base at Guantanamo? Would the U. S. be the "aggressor" if we fought back?

Aside from this blind spot where slavery, race and the Civil War are concerned, I find most southerners to be charming and likeable people.

Mountain Rose

re: Southern patriotism

You've heard it now. I'm a Yankee who experienced a lapse in patriotism in my youth, who much appreciates the constancy and indefatigability of Southern patriotism. Check out my remarks a few posts above, re: the South's sense of tragic irony.

Not to oversimplify, but I feel the South may have a greater sense that just because "You can't win them all," doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying. Also, you can be mistaken occasionally and still correct without losing self-confidence.

Donaldd & Hustler:

I think you're being too harsh. It's a great country all over; regional differences in style and manner are interesting but not crippling. I think more in terms of varying contributions than in warring factions.

The South isn't monolithic any more than other areas are. I find Texas and South Carolina very different from each other. Maine and New Jersey are only a couple hundred miles apart but very different. Vermont looks a lot different than urban New York but feels like one of New York's bucolic suburbs. California is as different from north to south and from rural to urban as entire sections of the country thousands of miles apart.

Hey y'all!
I am a Virginian currently living in North Carolina. I have never lived in the North, although I have lived out West in Texas and New Mexico. I am retired military. A favorite pasttime in the military is to sit around and ask everyone where they are from. I would say "I'm from the South", and they would say, disbelievingly (because I didn't have a drawl) "Where in the South?", and I would answer Virginia. And they would inevitably say "That's not the South". I guess they were talking about northern Virginia, which I heard someone once call "occupied Virginia". That's where all the federal employees live. Anyway, when people told me Virginia was not the South, I would say "Well, that'll be news to Robert E. Lee." Every courthouse down here I've seen has a statue out front dedicated to the Confederate war dead. My grandparents went to Confederate war memorial services until the end of their lives. When the military sent me to Texas and we went to the chow hall, the chow line for breakfast always had a big steaming container of grits, and I was shocked when people around me would point at it and ask what is that? Buttered grits, can't beat'em. And you can't beat North Carolina, eastern that is, barbeque: chopped pork with red pepper vinegar.
After twelve years in New Mexico, I am not fond of the humidity, but I love to listen to the rain. Sometimes it'll rain for days. In New Mexico, when it rained, we all stopped what we were doing and watched it. It would rain a few minutes and move on. It's so amazingly green down here I still can't get over it. Here it is January and it's gonna be 75 today and 80 tomorrow.
I was in a grocery store in Raleigh, near Cary, and heard a NE accent. It was a big Italian woman loudly berating her own mother!!!! for suggesting that she buy some product. That's something you wouldn't see Southerners doing! How gross. The first time I went to NYC, I was shocked at how they were yelling the F word at each other at the taxi stand in the airport. Sure won't hear that down here. Of course, that's because our cities are still livable sizes, so we don't have to be constantly yelling at each other to get the F*** outta my way.
The kicker: I went to a new hairdresser. He was male and had a NE accent. Turned out to be from NJ. I asked him how he was adjusting to the culture shock. He said he had finally figured out that when Southern ladies don't like what you've done to their hair, they just get even friendlier. I still laugh every time I think of that. Bless your heart!

Donaldd - so what are you bitter about?

Are you wishing that you still had slaves?

What do you think the South seceded over? Of course slavery; because their economy was based on getting a lot of free labor (a corporation's dream) and this is why they hated Lincoln so much, not because he was trying to figure out what to do with all the slaves once they were liberated.

In fact, a new African nation called Liberia was formed by former slaves following the Civil War. After some political struggle in the Twenteth Century, originally started by a bunch of Marxists, followed by control by a cruel dictator (who is being brought to justice), the nation has recently (2003) settled into a normal government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia

Now the South has a thriving economy, without slaves.

Aren't you glad about that?

DonaldD
AND Texas could (God forbid) by the conditions of the treaty also divide into 5 states with their own representation. Can you see it, the 54 states of the USA? As a child growing up in Texas, I also learned more about the history of southern New Mexico (the search for the 7 cities of Cibola) than some native New Mexicans. Also as college student worked the original 6 Flags over Texas, and learned more about France, Spain, and Mexico.

Donaldd

Liberia was founded not by Lincoln, who was a little kid at the time, but by President James Monroe, the last of the founding Virginia aristocrats to be elected president. Liberia's capital was named Monrovia in his honor. He was a good president; I'm not complaining.

mbachin:

American literature is more eclectic than you seem to admit. "Southern" writer Mark Twain was from Missouri, a border state that never seceded. Twain got his literary start in California then spent most of his adult life in Connecticut after he became famous. He's buried in the small industrial city of Elmira, New York, not in red dirt country. To this day, he is America's most savage satirist on the legacy of slavery.

The first American writer to win the Nobel Prize for Literature was midwesterner Sinclair Lewis, who also relocated to the northeast (Vermont) after he got famous. The second American writer to win the Nobel was playwright Eugene O'Neill, a second generation descendant of potato famine Irish, born in Times Square, who got his literary start in Provincetown, MA and spent some of his most productive years writing in Sea Island, Georgia and Danville, California.

One of my all-time favorite American heros is midwesterner Thomas Edison who worked mostly in New Jersey but had a winter getaway in Florida.

There are great writers and thinkers from every nook and cranny of our wonderful country, and no need to be jealously provincial about it.

PACKRAT
American Airlines STARTED out in Texas. Their first terminal was Meacham Field, Fort Worth, Texas and home offices were in downtown Fort Worth. American, like the rest of us who went North, went to town and "saw the elephant" and came home.

Donaldd- If the Fort fired first then...
Donaldd writes: Saturday, January, 13, 2007 11:30 AM
Mountain Rose
"You've been brain washed by your Propagandist History...
As far as real history goes; both Ft. Sumter and Southern artilery batteries claimed to have fired the first shots. The North won the war and Yankee historians wrote the history books."
*******************************************

If the Fort fired first, then why were there "Southern artilery batteries" there in firing distance? They were obviously not there to have a picnic!

They had the same irrational hate for Lincoln that the Lefties have for George W Bush.

ARE YOU GLAD YOU ARE PART OF THE UNITED STATES TODAY, OR DO YOU WISH THAT THE COUNTRY WAS STILL DIVIDED?

Uncle Max
Since 'that' remark, I have made it a point of NOT listening to the dixie chicks. Most of the stations I listen to do not play their stuff so if I heard them this afternoon...after Rush and Shawn...if I heard them I wouldn't know who the he11 they were unless the DJ told me. Just before I dialed a new station.

If we are afraid of thouroughly
beating our enemies in the Middle East, we should stop and take a look around.

The South is one of the most patriotic regions of the country, in spite of being devistated in the Civil War.

But it doesn't stop there:

We thouroghly beat the Japanese in WWII, and today they are one of our best trading partners.

We kicked British Booty out of our country, and now they are are strongest ally.

We bombed the begeezus out of Germany, and though they are not our best friend they are doing very well with a free economy, thank you, and are free of evil dictators.

This tell me that soundly trouncing an enemy can lead to having a very good friend.

By the way, we did not actually beat the Russians in battle, but wore them down slowly instead, and they are once again emerging as a potential evil empire.

I vote for booty kicking!

Wisconsin
Took a bike trip to Milwaukee for the Harley B'day party in '03. Ain't no friendlier folks around than them that lives West of Milwaukee. Of course there were a lot of Harleys and that was a lot of money. But somehow I got the feeling they were like that all the time.

Donaldd - Cotton Tax, etc
And your point would be?

Do you wish there were still slaves of ANY color, owned by people of ANY color, living in ANY location?

I would hope the answer would be, "of course not!"

Now let me ask you what it would have taken, other than a war, to eradicate that evil practice?

In fact, I am certain that major corporations today would love to be able to own slaves, if it were permitted. No labor costs! A bean-counter's dream!!!!

Once someone is making a lot of money by de-humanizing a whole group of people, it is like pulling teeth to make them give that up.

Take abortion, for example. No matter how technological advances reveal the humanity of the child in the womb, the political/medical complex that makes a fortune from the blood of infants continues to fight like a badger in a corner to continue that evil practice right up to the moment of birth. And in fact, they are starting to push for the death industry to expand to humans outside the womb as well.

As long as the propaganda machine successfully dehumanizes a group, the evil instigators can continue to make fortunes off the misery of others.

Mountain Rose
Everyone who read 'Mandango' or 'Drum' thinks all the Ante-bellum South did was sit around in the shade of a magnolia tree, sipping mint juleps and torturing slaves.

First off, only 10% of the people in the South owned slaves.
Second off, a young, healthy field hand cost $1800 pre-civil war Yankee dollars. To treat your investment like those books would be about as stupid as today's farmer driving his quarter-million dollar combine into a tree.
As a matter of fact if a slave owner had a particularly dangerous job or one that would affect the health of his slave, he would hire an Irish immigrant for 25 cents a day.

Flagwaver: This is NOT defending slavery in the South. Merely stating facts.

Donaldd- did France declare war on us?
Donaldd writes: Saturday, January, 13, 2007 12:23 PM
"Mountain Rose Germany & Italy declared war on us Dec 11, 1941; Congress later that day declared war Dec 11, 1941 against Germany and Italy.
When did Iraq attack or declare war on the United States; when did Congress declare War?"
****************************************

When did France ever declare war on us? When did they attack us? Yet we invaded their shores with many thousands of soldiers. Why did we depose the Vishy Government, who did nothing mean to us?

Of course, the obvious answer is, we did it to liberate them and let them live under democracy.

How imperialistic of us!

After seeing what good "friends" they have turned out to be, perhaps we should have let them languish under the Nazis.


friendly south
Being born in soutgwestern PA - almost a stones throw away from the Mason-Dixon line, we moved to south Florida when I was 5 in 1952. Lots of yankees down there. Yet around the central and panhandle areas, one can here southern accents. I moved to Wisconsin in '72 and when my parents moved to southeast Alabama, I would visit them. If I took a walk from their house almost every driver that approached would raise a hand in a greeting. When I went into a grocery store the guy putting away frozen food would say "hi, how ya' doin" You don't get that friendliness up north, that includes everyoneb blacks as well.
By the way I drove better in the snow than the natives because I researched the best way to do it - they assumed they knew how yet many still ended in the ditch the first snow.
Lincoln ignored the supreme court for several things and he suspended habeus corpus. The northerners also had slaves. Who had the worst riots during the civil rights movements? The north.

To freerider
The last time I looked Ft. Sumter was located in Charleston harbor. The comparison between Gitmo and Ft Sumter is not valid. Ft Sumter is and was property of the State of SC. Gitmo is leased from Cuba. If at the end of the 100-year lease if we refuse to leave, Cuba will have every right in the world to fire on us. When SC withdrew from the contract with the other states due to issues of non-compliance with the contract, the federals should have left Ft. Sumter as requested by the SC authorities. Still, the SC authorities did not fire on Ft Sumter until word was received that Lincoln had dispatched a ship from NY with reinforcements and supplies.

As to the rest of your statements yes you have read your Northern history books well. I fully acknowledge the majority of the war had to do with slavery, but it was NOT the only reason. What you should think about is what Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Indiana would have done in the early 60s if the South had told them they had to give up the iron and automobile industry. Do you think they would have responded with “Oh sure, we do that tomorrow.”

….And no I have no earthly desire for slavery to reinstated in the US. Note that some of the illegals coming across the border have tried that and southern sheriffs have stopped it. Slavery was an abomination that was brought to this country before it was a country. I think if the war had been avoided that it would have been eliminated anyway within 50 years or so. If that had happened a lot of the lingering animosity would have been spared.

buck- I have family in the South
and as far as I know, they never owned slaves either. Infact they were poor and spoke only German.

But the economy of the South was based on slave labor, a situation which I suspect the Multi-national corporations covet, and are working hard to create.

Liberals are the racists
According to the FBI website these are the statistics on hate crimes for 2005

? The three most tolerant states are: Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, the three least tolerant states are: District of Columbia, New Jersey, Michigan,
? 10 of the 12 least tolerant states are blue
? 23 of the 25 most tolerant states are red

If the corporations succeed in creating
a world-wide system of slavery, perhaps a kind of feudalism, like I suspect they want for the future, I am hoping that I will be a house slave, or at least a white-collar slave.

But I would rather it happen after my demise.

Donaldd
I know now what the second "d" stands for - DIPSH1T!!! (apologies for sinking to a liberal's level)

I won't waste time arguing Iraq, because you obviously didn't pay any attention to what Hillary and Bill, with all their toadying syncophants like John "I'm a Vietnam Vet" Kerry, Barbara "not a" Boxer, Robbie "KKK" Byrd and on and on, were saying in the late nineties.

This may be surprising to you, but the Bush people repeated exactly the same words only instead of more useless talk, after 9-11 they took action any rational thinker would have, given the threats by an unpredictable mad man. Why is democrat rhetoric good, but actual republican action based on the same, BAD?

The dhimmicratics would have talked US to death.

Go peddle your tired "no Al Queda in Iraq" and "they didn't attack or declare war on us," someplace else. You can't get away with posting patently untrue statements here..

Grow up, get out of the third grade and accept a little wisdom from some adults.

vic- the North did not agree that
South Carolina was a seperate country, and that is why they did not run like a bunch of Leftie Loser Democrats.

I am sure the South disagreed.

That is why we fought a war.

Let me ask you the same question: do you wish the South was a seperate country from the US?

I sure don't! I am glad we are united, and we can thank Lincoln for that, no matter what you think!

IEDs don't care where you're from
Before I get a bucketfull of vitriol in exchange for writing this, my wife's a southern gal and I've never come across anything other than the warmest welcome on the few ocassions I've been south of the
Ohio river... but it's wrong to assume that the south bears more of the military's casualties than the north. Marine Times appears to have removed its map detailing where each fatally injured soldier comes from; crooksandliars still has a copy of it though. Check it out.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/index.php?rand={20070113095829}&paged=3
I don't know what the stats are, but this map makes it pretty clear that the burden of dead kids is more than evenly spread.

Donaldd
I wouldn't pay too much attention to Mountain Rose and her views on slavery. In another discussion thread she put the existence of mixed race children during slvarey down to mixed race marriages, and then accused me of being a racist when I pointed out that mixed race marriages back then were few and far between to say the least. To be fair on her she kept on plugging away at the idea, which shows conviction on her part if nothing else.

To Maintain Rose
Do I wish the South was a separate country? No I don't suppose I do now. It is an interesting thought. In some ways the South would be a lot better off. In other ways it would not. There is an entire host of Alternate Fiction that covers this subject. I can recommend some authors if you like.


Donaldd- I am not for unfettered
capitalism for the reason you point out.

But I am against unfettered socialism and communism even more. Look at all the misery those systems created in the 20th Century!

The truth is, that no system is good unless it has checks and balances to protect all the people.

And no system will be good unless all the people, both leaders and the "followers" are taught to be ethical from childhood.

During the late 20th century, the Leftist US school systems began a campaign to eradicate the concept of "right and wrong" from the country. They snuck such teachings into classes erroniously called "Health," and repeated weekly "there is no right or wrong."

I had heard about such classes, and when I returned breifly to college in the early '80s I discovered that this was true. I argued with the teacher, and by the astonished looks on the kids faces, I could see that they had been taught this drivel for years already, accepting it as the truth. I remember asking the teacher if there is no right or wrong, how did he intend to grade us?

Well it is interesting that all of these school massacres started after the advent of this kind of teaching.

And so has the growing incidence of sl#tty female teachers schtupping their students (these gals are the right age for having grown up with the "no-right-or-wrong" teaching in schools).

And the increase of STDs among young people.

And the increase of corporate corruption.

What we need is a return to values.

If we don't post the Ten Commandments, fine, but we ought to be teaching that people should not steal, not murder, not behave promiscuously, and not to cheat or oppress other people.

If every member of society behaved ethically, then it almost wouldn't matter what system we operated under.

But it has to be taught. The natural instinct of man is to be wicked and to behave counter to good values, while we wish to impose our rules on other.

We have to be raised with values, or we will have none when we grow up.


To Mountain Rose
Sorry for the typo in your handle.

Retiring
I'm in Massachusetts and have dear relatives living in Florida who I'd love to see more of. I also notice that no one from the south says they plan to retire to Massachusetts. Not many anyway!


Donaldd- Ignore Critical Bull

He is misquoting me.

If you want to know what I said (half of it was teasing him) it was pretty recent, and can probably be found in Town Hall still.

I was satirizing the fact that the Left keeps telling us that it doesn't matter if you get married or not, even if you have kids, and then turn around and complain that slave owners had children with slaves without marrying them.

Seems like they were progressives, doesn't it?

As you can see, I am being satirical again.

I hope no one thinks from those statements that I advocate the rape of slaves when I don't even advocate the holding of them.

I am just pointing out the hypocracy of the left by using humor.

If it wasn't funny, OK, I'll keep my day job.

vic - Historical Alternative Fiction
vic writes: Saturday, January, 13, 2007 1:34 PM
To Maintain Rose
"Do I wish the South was a separate country? No I don't suppose I do now. It is an interesting thought. In some ways the South would be a lot better off. In other ways it would not. There is an entire host of Alternate Fiction that covers this subject. I can recommend some authors if you like."
********************************

That sounds interesting and I would like to read them.

I love our country and feel fortunate that we are united coast to coast, in spite of the ambivilance I feel toward New York.

I am really glad the South is still in our camp, and although I know how much they suffered, and in fact how much the whole country suffered, I believe the War Between the States was worth it.

This is why I am so greived by the corporations who are deliberately undoing our borders, which we fought so hard and shed so much blood for.

And it is why I feel that we should not wimp out when we are threatend by forign powers who blatently say they want to annihilate us.

I think the United States is worth preserving, and worth shedding blood for once again.

To Mountain Rose
Harry Turtledove is probably the most famous and prolific of the alternate history authors. I have read Guns of The South which deals with the War. This is the Barns and Nobles Description:

B&N description: An exciting new novel of "alternate history" in which time travelers from the future alter the outcome of the Civil War. As the war is nearing its end, and General Lee is facing imminent defeat, he is approached with the offer of an extraordinary weapon--an assault rifle called the AK-47.

I have read this and it is good. I checked it out from the local library.

for the sake of argument
I don't care for discussions of north/south differences to turn to a revisit of the slavery issue. However, some of these comments have been unusually thought-provoking, so I'm going to dive in.

Just for the sake of argument, let's leave out the racial component of American slavery. It was a particularly loathsome component, but slavery has existed throughout history and most slavery was economically and militarily based, not race-based. The Romans enslaved conquered peoples without regard to race. There could as easily be found field hands and house servants in the early days from other tribes in Italy (the Romans started out as a tribe), from North Africa, Mesopotamia and Germany. Roman slaves might resemble Al Pacino, Anwar Sadat or Claudia Schiffer.

It wasn't true that slavery was on the verge of extinction in the ante-bellum South because it was uneconomic. It was fantastically profitable, so much so that it disadvantaged the South AS A WHOLE, by enabling a lopsided economy based on exporting two or three agricultural commodities and importing nearly everything else. The South had few viable domestic industries outside of handicrafts, and its rail and river transportation was directed towards exporting cotton, rice and sugar. Internal, interstate transportation was primitive compared to the north. There was little incentive to educate anyone black or white, except the planter elite.

Free labor in the north enabled and encouraged greater entrepreneurship, better transportation & trade, greater accumulation of capital and education which reached a larger proportion of the people -- all of them key to modern economies. The North attracted more immigrants because of these advantages, so its proportion of national population rose continuously from the colonial period to the Civil War.

The relative advantages and disadvantages between north and south could be compared -- inexactly to be sure -- to the Middle Eastern states relying mainly on oil exports vs. other Muslim countries that don't have oil and must develop diverse economies.

Where would you rather live if you had a choice, but weren't a lord? Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Iran? Or Tunisia, Pakistan or Malaysia?

In response to Mountain Rose's contention that the ideal corporate employee is a slave -- I respectfully disagree. One of the disadvantages to holding agricultural slaves is that they must be fed and gainfully occupied during the winter. They're hard to transport from place to place. The reason cotton production rebounded less than ten years after the Civil War is that landowners devised the sharecropper system, which was not race-based, but used free labor in a low-cost manner.

Free employees can be laid off or relocate on their own. The worldwide mass migration from farm to city has been going on for centuries, mainly comprised of people who'd rather work in shops and factories than milk cows. Free labor can educate and better themselves and join the elite. California has gone from a couple hundred thousand to 32 million people in 150 years -- virtually all of that growth voluntarily, with few of the natives complaining.

Superior transportation and the larger population & economic growth engendered by those things won the Civil War for the North. I believe that slavery could never have survived the advent of the automobile and modern communications. No amount of chains can hold people down once they know how much opportunity is available. Even conventional education is lagging behind what people can teach themselves.

The class war of today is not so much between races and economic groups but between retrograde societies mired in tradition and people unafraid of change. People don't have to live in cities anymore to have a sophisticated outlook, but cosmopolitanism burgeons apace. The motto might be the old WW I song, which inadvertantly heralded unprecedented change everywhere. "How You Gonna Keep 'em Down on the Farm After They've Seen Paree?"

Donaldd- regardless of which side
put a stop to the teaching of values, it needs to start again.

Or at least stop the schools from telling the kids "there is no right or wrong," especially since they constantly impose values on the kids, like "zero tolerance" for "sexual harrassment" among 5-year-olds. Or when they stop teenage girls from having Midol in their purse. What a crock!

The trouble, of course is, whose values?

But there are values that everyone agrees on: Don't murder, don't steal, don't cheat, don't be promiscuous, and don't pick on other kids.

I think we can have a list that the majority of people can get behind.

Oh yes, and parents need to return to teaching values in the home. Leaving junior with a nanny who can't speak English is tantamount to child neglect, in my book.

The South
Anyone want some hog-gowls, chittlins, or stewed raccoon? now that's 'MY SOUTH'.

The South
Born in Brooklyn, educated in an elitist society, married a Southern girl, living in the bluest of the blue states but still a Southerner in my soul.

Thanks for this article .. I needed the lift.

StromsDaughter
They may seem backwards to you, but at least they can spell "believe."