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Tuesday, June 26, 2007
Matt Kibbe :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Real Skinny on Socialized Medicine
by Matt Kibbe
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Will Congress pass Obamacare by the end of the year?

“I'm the thinnest f@#king guy in town!"

--Michael Moore (Rolling Stone 9/17/04)

In his new film Sicko, Michael Moore makes it clear that he is a big fan of government-run health care. He may in fact be one of the biggest fans of socialized medicine in America, given his well-documented penchant for donuts and double Quarter-Pounders with cheese.

Moore proposes that the federal government nationalize the provision of health insurance so that everyone is covered. “The government has been quite good and efficient at creating a number of systems,” he tells Time. “Ask anyone on Social Security if their check comes on time every month. Like clockwork. And it comes through the so-called dilapidated U.S. mail.” In his movie, Moore celebrates the socialized health care systems in Cuba, Canada and France as better role models for America. In Canada, says Moore, the main flaw in their program “is that it’s underfunded.”

Of course, the reality is that Canada’s health care professionals are fleeing to America to work, and Canadian patients regularly come here for life-saving care. In fact, the Canadian system Michael Moore is so fond of is one of only three governments that make it illegal to buy private health insurance. The others are Cuba and Kim Jong Il’s North Korea. And here at home, the bankrupt Social Security system and massively inefficient U.S. postal service are not models for anything but government failure.

In a socialized system, every taxpayer pays in to the government pot. But not everyone gets the health care they need, because the demand for free health care will be virtually infinite. But the dollars available to be spent will be limited. Hillary Clinton, when she last tried to impose government-run health care on the American people, euphemistically referred to this as a “global budget” for health care expenditures.

Michael Moore calls it “underfunded.” Call it what you like, but what this really means is that some people get the health care they need and others wait in a line for service. It’s called rationing, and it is really Sicko. As the great Irish philosopher P.J. O’Rourke once observed: “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free."

Michael Moore is too blinded by ideology (or perhaps by a deep fried Twinkie-induced blood sugar rush) to see the real problems with the U.S. health care system: the government is already too involved in the health decisions made by patients and their doctors. This has driven up prices and denied individuals the right to make health care choices for themselves and their families. To truly fix health care, we need to increase choice and competition, as well as reduce the insurance mandates and junk lawsuits that drive up costs.

But why do I keep taking shots at the breath-taking girth of “the famously outsized filmmaker,” as the L.A. Times recently referred to Moore? In America, what he eats is his choice. That is, for now. Fully socializing medicine will bring about a new set of problems that are far more threatening than just “access to health care.” Socialized health insurance concentrates power into the hands of politicians and bureaucrats, and it opens the door to ever more government intrusion into other aspects of our lives.

Michael Moore is grossly overweight. Some experts claim that obesity is an epidemic that is imposing a heavy, and unnecessary, burden on our health care system. According to the Centers for Disease Control, obesity leads to myriad health problems including heart disease, some types of cancer, and stroke. Medical expenses attributed to overweight and obese people, says the CDC, “accounted for 9.1 percent of total U.S. medical expenditures in 1998 and may have reached as high as $78.5 billion ($92.6 billion in 2002 dollars). Approximately half of these costs were paid by [the government-run health insurance programs] Medicaid and Medicare.”

If we are all on the financial hook for Michael’s aggressive eating habits in a socialized health care system, it seems like the rest of us must get a say in what he eats. After all, under a government “global budget” for healthcare spending, every extra cheese pizza Michael Moore downs today may someday result in a denial of care for your truly ill child waiting in line for “free” health care.

I can imagine a new federal agency, perhaps within Homeland Security, assigned the job of enforcing “good” dietary habits on suspicious eaters – like Michael Moore. Maybe Mike’s buddy Fidel Castro knows how to make this work. As far as I can tell, the only fat people in communist Cuba are part of the political class. The rest of the Cuban people are just hungry.

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About The Author
Matt Kibbe is the president of FreedomWorks.

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Free lunch
Liberals always think its cheaper when its "free" w/o realizing they are still paying for it. Its interesting that people like Moore support programs like this considering he won't have to be included in those standing in line. Liberal elites and their love of socialism, always amazes me how these people enjoy the fruits of capitalism, and yet embrace socialism. I'm sure Moore and his crowd will never explain to the public just how such a program will be paid for. Gov't is expensive enough now, and yet we are expected to think a new massive program won't bust the budget? Who's kidding whom? To all the rich liberals, put your money where your mouth is. Start your own program of free healthcare. Show us all how its done.

Amen
If anyone is in doubt about the truth of this description of Canadian health care, I invite you to come and spend a summer weekend in any emergency room in the GTA. Take the occasional stroll into the parking lot too and look at the rows of ambulances parked there because the people inside them cannot be treated by anybody inside those doors. Think of yourself fruitlessly calling for an ambulance for your dying Mama while all the ambulances sit helplessly in the parking lot of Toronto General Hospital, filled to capacity.

If you can't make your way to Toronto this summer, here is a thought experiment for you:

Close your eyes and visualize the USPS at Christmastide. It is noon on the 16th of December. Imagine the line snaking clear down the hall, out the door, and into the parking lot.

Now imagine you at the end of this line, not with a sack of Christmas cards to mail, but with a baby suffering from a high fever and convulsions. Now it is three hours later. Imagine yourself and your baby just making your way inside the door, with two people at the counter waiting on customers and 75 customers ahead of you...and it is lunch time for the Help.

There you have the Canadian health care system.

Rationing
ONe thing I wish conservatives could understand in the health care debate: Health care is rationed now; there is nothing inherently "governmental" about rationing. Ever heard of "utilization review?" It's what happens in HMOs and similar organizations (which almost all of us who have insurance are part of)in the interest of what's called "cost containment" in the health care industry.

Suppose your doctor wants to have an imaging study done. The request hits the screen of the utilization review person in your HMO. This individual has no medical training, but he or she will decide whether the doctor's request will be honored. The reviewr willcall up the list of what your health plan will or will not cover, and rule accordingly. A similar thing happens with the prescription drug plan that many of us have as part of our health insurance. The provider may require your doctor give "prior approval" for a prescription. Now most of us might think that when the doctor decides to prescribe a drug, that's already "prior approval," but no, the provider may require you the patient to communicate with your doctor and ask him to approve what he's already prescribed. Indeed, the doctor may have to start you on a cheaper drug, even if he or she believes that a different and more expensive drug is what you need. Many such plans have several "tiers" that thedoctor has to deal with in prescribing something for you.

Now I submit that all this is "rationing," and it has nothing to do with government. However, Americans generally don't mind having their health care "rationed," as long as it's done by business and not government. Go figure.

Public health care works
The thing about tax-payer funded "free" health care is that it makes for an overall healthier population and that is ultimately what health care is all about.

Look at America. The proverbial American now looks no different than Mike Moore. He is typically a glutton for unhealthy foods churned out by restaurants who deep fry everything to bypass health regulations limiting contamination, which is not a concern when foods are prepared at deep frying temperatures.

The health care industry is profiting from the unhealth of Americans. The HMO's are letting people die because they won't allow spending too much money to make them better. They are in the business (the business!) of health care.

When you look at the girth of the average American it almost looks like the profit machinery at all levels from fast food to health care are in collusion. That's not the case in Canada, where the average person still falls into the healthy body mass index ratio. The essence of health care is not to process patients as profit potential from the ground up, starting with their diets, but to encourage healthy habits because that's what doctors are for and all the unhealthy people in the country aren't going to make them any richer beacuse they are getting a standard rate for their services in a publicly funded health care system.

You need publicly funded health care, because as it is, you wouldn't let anyone die in an emergency room even if he can't pay, and those that can are covering for him anyway, whether they realize it or not.


SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
During my first visit to Tver, Russia [while Mrs. Clinton had a committee working on her version of socialized medicine], I met with a doctor who was in charge of a large region's emergency medicine. He was stunned that the U.S. would even think about trying to develop any such a system. His searing comment about such nonsense was as follows: "Ridiculous, we tried that, and it does not work".


you repubs make me laugh
Why do all liberal "ideas" start off with a LIE that then has to be seriously discussed by the grown ups (conservatives).

Cut-and-pasting on TWO boards today.
YouDeserverToBeLaughedAt needs to be banned for spamming. Cut-and-pasting the same drivel on multiple boards is, as far as I can tell, a violation of the terms for posting on these boards.

And for baudrunner:

"The thing about tax-payer funded "free" health care is that it makes for an overall healthier population and that is ultimately what health care is all about."

In Canada today, it takes MONTHS just to get an MRI. If you haev life-threatening cancer, you risk dying before it can be fully diagnosed...that is unless you travel to the "broken health care system" of the United States for your MRI. One of the major reasons for Canada's problems is because making something "free" (that is charging each person one rate regardless of whether they use it or not) causes people to use it too much. Have a sniffle? Rush to the doctor and demand a full body scan instead of taking some Claratin. To hell with that cancer patient who dies while waiting to get his needed care.

Oh yeah, that certainly makes people healthier.

"The health care industry is profiting from the unhealth of Americans."

So now you are blaming HMOs because of your compulsion to ram 10 double cheese burgers and 5 large fries down your throat? Wow. Just wow.

baudrunner & animalgirl
No one has said our system is great like it is. There are many problems w/ it currently and most lead straight back to too much gov't intrusion. There are reasons why the costs are so high, but what makes anyone think having a "public funded" system be any cheaper? Do you realize who the public is? That is we the taxpayers. And based on what experience makes you think the gov't will run such a program with smooth efficiency? The current programs of Medicare & Medicaid are overrun in costs. Ever wonder why those taxes increase every year? We can't afford the impending financial woes of SS & Medicare, and yet you want another expensive gov't program? Yes, the HMO operate on profits, but gov't programs operate on budgets. It still works out the same. And who pays for all those who aren't paying taxes, like the illegals? Sorry, but the utopia doesn't exist.

animalgirlisback
You must not be keeping up with your reading. In spite of your anecdotal tale of getting your husband to the doctor, a problem with national health care as described by many in the know is that there is often an over utilization of the services thus getting in the way of those seriously ill. I am very sure that my husband who has had serious heart problems for 30 years would have died if he lived in a country with a national health plan, Close personal attention from a very good doctor of his choice has kept him alive. Right now he has a monitor at home that weekly scans his pacemaker/defirillator to see if he OK. Soon they are going to replace his device with one that will have no wires and which can be monitored without using the device at all. Do you think that with socialized medicine that this device would have been researched and developed? and would there have been funds for him to get one?

Sicko
I read recently where 30% of Cubans are overweight; the other 70% live in Cuba.

Health Insurance by Edison.
The utility business model is the best (not perfect) solution that exists between socialized medicine and the defective, "faux-free market system", that the US has now. The genius of America has always been in its ability to turn what are first luxuries into necessities and then these necessities into "utilities".

Health insurance companies should be a utilities. They should lose their private company status. They would sell their stocks on Wall Street and be assured of monopoly in selected regions and regulation by regional commissions. Just as the electric company. Yes there will be premiums, but they won't be outrageously expensive.

Hospitals and doctors should be left on their own. Hospitals should be non-profit. HMO's illegal and the multiple pricing by doctors and pharmaceuticals severely discouraged.

It's not perfect, but it's a better place to start than socialized medicine.

Sicko
If the Cuban health care system is so great why was a Spanish specialist flown in to consult on Fidel's problem???

Favorite stupid line
Free health care makes for overall healthier society.

Please show your stats for that. England has had free healthcare(which is not free btw) for some time, yet their obesity rate is higher than ours.

Furthermore people have a right to eat, drink, and be merry...even Michael Moore. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness means something different to everyone and the Consitution gives us the latitude to define that ourselves. Socialized medicine will set up a whole new fear and persecution system.

If Michael Moore keeps pushing this he will know fear everytime he stuffs his face, and persecution with every little ailment. He will be a poster child for it.

If any of you don't think so then think of the two corporations in Washington who micro manage the lives of their employees. Alcholics, fat people, and smokers are fired due to health insurance costs. Don't for get the guy who has a lawsuit against Scott's lawncare corp. fired for having nicotine in his system. He was down to two cigs a day, smoked them on his time, and was fired. He couldn't quit fast enough.

This whole thing is going to crete a Salem Witch trial mentality. Good Luck.

One other thing
If MM thinks SS is so well run then he needs to explain why it is going bankrupt. Just think we get to pay to bail out SS and then pay for socialized medicine. Excuse me while I go dye my hair since it just turned white from fear of never actually seeing a paycheck.

Evan if we get passed
the fact that no country that has federaly controlled healthcare is happy it and that it doesn't work you still have the other problem of it being unconstitutional, not that the constitution has ever gotten in the way of socialism in the US before. When are going to stop pretending and accept that this country is going to be in civil war within the next decade if we continue on this path to disaster.

The constitution is near perfect and is a perfect way to run this nation. This nation started it's decline when the people and the courts through it out the window in the early 1900s. There is a reason this country has gone downhill faster then any other since WW2, the other had a huge head start, it's because before WW2 the American people and courts allowed FDR to start implenting communism in the US and ignoring the constitution.

Bucko
And your supporting information is...? Hospitals that operate for profit give far better customer care than those that do not. When there is competition, prices get lowered and more services are offered or included. Take profit away and you remove any motive for innovation or going the "extra mile". Take profit away and see how hard it is to get an appt with any type of doc as they cut back to 3 day work weeks and take 6 weeks of vacation per year. I hustle all day 5 days a week because I need to pay off astronomical student loans, save for retirement (fully expecting to pay the max for SS for 35 years and then get screwed royally) and pay for my kids' educations. I could take a lot more time off but I don't because I prefer to make a better profit. People already have to wait about two months to get in to see me. Eliminate my motivation for working so hard and the wait becomes much longer. Is this what people want-long waits for care? They can move north if that is their preference. Your ideas are unsound and will not work. I have worked in private practice and in the military- trust me, I work a lot harder now that I see the dollar value of what I do. If you want a true free market alternative to big HMOs then take a look at HSAs. When people control their own health care money, they will pay a lot more attention to how and where it is spent. Creating monopolies and eliminating choice is something you consider progress?

animalgirl
"Who thinks that our system as it is 'works' has to have their brain shut off. Tens of millions of people have virtually no access to health care, unless they are at death's door."

You are absolutely right. But the liberal solution is absolutely wrong.

The system now involves entities (employers) that have no business whatsoever in our health care. The gov't's involvement all but assures that this unneeded interference and expense continues... or worse, the gov't could replace these entities with a bureaucracy.

As bad as things are now, there are still some market forces that help ensure some degree of cost containment, product availability, innovation, and quality control. Gov't bureaucracies attempting to do this are precisely what bankrupted the former Soviet Union.

We simply can't afford gov't funded health care... and if we get it, it will almost certainly be worse than what we have now for the mass of Americans.

A Canadian on Our Health Care Miracle
There are so many misstatements in the blog that it's difficult where to begin. Baudrunner: look at the statistics. Americans and Canadians are almost identical in every way, including our penchant for fat and sugar. Quit bragging. We're just as fat as you.

Animalgirlisback says that in the US, the poorer you are the more expensive it becomes. Medicaid, your healthcare for the poor, serves your poor more efficiently than our system in almost every way. Yes, you have overcrowed emergency rooms, but you should see ours.

And what people in the US don't consider is how different our countries are. People almost identical, countries very different. We live in the second largest country on earth and one of the richest in natural resources: gold, timber, diamonds, copper, coal, oil, oil, oil, water, water, water. Our James Bay hydro is huge. And all those resources serve about 33,000,000 people, a population about the size of New York.

baudrunner
You simply have no grasp of economic reality. Economic laws are every bit as certain as natural laws. When you attempt to violate or manipulate them... you only make things worse.

The best way to deal with a problem is to make your system more congruent to "truth" and law... not to try to change the transcendent law itself.

BTW, if you are in Canada or one of the European nations, your socialized medicine has been both directly and indirectly subsidized by us. We have paid for the bulk of R&D expenses. We spent the most defense dollars protecting Europe during the Cold War when these systems were implemented.

"Public health care works
The thing about tax-payer funded "free" health care is that it makes for an overall healthier population and that is ultimately what health care is all about."

No. There is simply no link between the two... other than the incentive of poor service. People may try to avoid health problems knowing they can't get the care they need.

A much better and direct way of dealing with that though is to allow insurance companies to charge people more when they have higher controllable risks. People still have incentive to live healthy but the quality of healthcare remains high.

"Look at America. The proverbial American now looks no different than Mike Moore. He is typically a glutton for unhealthy foods churned out by restaurants who deep fry everything to bypass health regulations limiting contamination, which is not a concern when foods are prepared at deep frying temperatures."

We're a free country and a person has a right to eat themselves to death if they like. It has been too much gov't interference already in the insurance market that has muted the incentives to be healthy. Insurance companies can't reward healthy habits with better rates. If they did, more people would be healthy.

"The health care industry is profiting from the unhealth of Americans."

Nope. That's just plain stupid. They don't profit from unhealthy people. They profit from people who pay but don't need the services.

An unhealthy person is a net loser for the insurance company that the gov't will not allow them to discriminate against... even though their problems are caused by free will acts.

"The HMO's are letting people die because they won't allow spending too much money to make them better."

You make it sound cold and intentional. The people who work for HMO's are probably LESS heartless and uncaring than the folks who "care" for the poor down at the social services offices.

Can you "prove" that they are "letting people die"? Can you prove that more people are dying due to this type of rationing than in countries whose gov'ts ration health care?

"They are in the business (the business!) of health care."

So are doctors... medicare reps... medicaid civil servants...

I despise HMO's but not because they're private or commercial. I despise them because they represent what insurance companies have to do to deal with the absolute mess that results from gov't and employers being involved where they don't belong.

"When you look at the girth of the average American it almost looks like the profit machinery at all levels from fast food to health care are in collusion. That's not the case in Canada, where the average person still falls into the healthy body mass index ratio."

The demagraphics of Canada are not comparable to the US. And... as someone mentioned, Canadians routinely come to the states for care they can't get under the socialized system.

"The essence of health care is not to process patients as profit potential from the ground up, starting with their diets, but to encourage healthy habits"

That is a self contradictory statement that has absolutely nothing to do with doctors btw. Americans are "encouraged" to have healthy habits RIGHT NOW. They can afford not to.

Further, profit is not a dirty word even in health care. If market forces were truly at play, companies that provided the greatest value (ie. the best deal) would make the most profit and stay in business.

"because that's what doctors are for and all the unhealthy people in the country aren't going to make them any richer beacuse they are getting a standard rate for their services in a publicly funded health care system."

Do you really want to compare the quality of our doctors to yours? I don't think so. I have NEVER, EVER ran into an American doctor btw who encouraged people to be unhealthy so they can make more.

The HMO's that you earlier attacked do precisely what you propose here. They pay a standard rate for various services. If they choose not to pay enough then a doctor can't provide the service or the patient has to pay much more.

Again, the solution isn't more gov't in... it is more gov't and employers OUT.

You need publicly funded health care, because as it is, you wouldn't let anyone die in an emergency room even if he can't pay, and those that can are covering for him anyway, whether they realize it or not.



The ignorance is dumbfounding
Profit isn't always or even usually equivalent to greed or callousness. Profit when gov't doesn't interfere in the wrong ways is almost always a reward for excellence... for providing the value that the consumer is looking for.

Gestell wonders why conservatives back..
private sector as opposed to big government health care. The issue is increased likelihood of accountability. Any gathering of people comes with inherent corruption, therefore I want to have a choice over what group I become involved with. Once a government program is in place, it becomes irrevocable and ultimately mandated- choice gone (except for elites). That is the only difference that matters.

I have 23 years in as an NJ state social worker, and you cannot imagine who passes for employable in government, AND often cannot be fired or held accountable. Also, finances are handled in the most irresponsible and wasteful of ways. Any private sector business conducted like our government would be bankrupt within 18 months.

Already the best and brightest are avoiding going into medicine and many established health care providers are leaving due to litigation and managed care restrictions and complications. Picture a government response to a physician shortage: recruit as many minorities as possible (no matter their aptitude), make them doctors, then assign them to be the health care providers and make private health care illegal. You've never worked in frontline government if you don't think this can happen. A month after 9/11 our new clinical supervisor was some chick in a veil who could barely speak English. Her job was to oversee our counseling work with at risk teens- luckily, she chose the no-show job option available to some in government. I've had supervisors who could barely read, and one who went to the restroom to "relieve" himself a couple of times per day (we called him "Woody"), and one who never showed up past the first day (but was paid for 3 years). What did they have in common? All aggressively recruited minorities.

If you want to have a government assigned doctor look at your melanoma and say, "Ooooh, whah dat, it be ug-leee!?" one day, keep stumping for government provided "health care". Governmemt should GOVERN, NOT provide health care!!


Foe animalgirlisback
I think a nice young lady like you might want to reread the Aesop's fable, "The Dog and his Bone". It has a way of summing things up nicely.

CVN65, I sure hope that...
...you read your patients test results better than you read my post at 12:58 PM. I only mentioned hospitals as being non-profit or not-for-profit in my proposal and NOT doctors. As far as I am concerned, all physicians should be on their own to earn whatever they deserve. Even the utility model requires that the insurance utility make a profit, not unlike the water, gas or electric companies. However, the utility model allows the insurance company to exist in a non-competitive market by permitting it to operate as a monopoly. The trade-off is that its profits and rates are regulated by a public commission, as are other utilities.

As for you Doctors, I do think that it is a cynical practice to have three prices for your services. The first price is what you bill the insurance company, the second is the amount of payment that you accept. And this is usually much less than the billing price. The third price is the one you charge cash customers at about three times what you will accept from an insurance company. Yes, I know, it's to make up for the no-payers, but you all would get paid more with open and honest pricing.

Unfortunately, the insurance companies have taught you doctors a rather bad habit. If you check the correct box on a form, regardless of the patients problem, the insurance company will send you a check. The checked box does not need to be what the patient suffers from, only that it's the most likely
condition to trigger the health insurance companies computer to kick you your payment. It's Pavlovian.

Furthermore, isn't it a bit unseemly for a professional, such as yourself, to whine on a public forum about their student loans and their children's college. Forgive me if I'm not moved. If I did that to my client's, Doc, I wouldn't make enough to afford health insurance. And a "healthy" portion of them are doctors! Have a nice day.

AudiR10
My experience in Canada this past winter with my daughter in an emergency room in Ottawa is very similar to what you relate in my old adopted hometown of Toronto. I'm so sorry to hear how things have deteriorated. The new broom of socialized medicine swept clean when that same daughter was born there in '76. But it was doomed to inefficiency and rationing from the start.

Here's a great link to a couple of films on the subject:

http://www.freemarketcure.com/twowomen.php

A little history


Over the past 30 years, many Americans have shifted personal responsibility in a variety of areas from self to other, thanks to the Great Society ideology of entitlement that undergirds the litigation fraught society we now enjoy today. "Tolerance", "diversity", and "compassion" has been bastardized into meaning that people can behave any way they want and others will absorb the cost and consequences . As a result, the cost of everything is up exponentially, including and especially health care.

Consider our open borders, awarding huge settlements for frivolous law suits, the length of research required in pharmaceutical production, and the free health care that already exists for the "poor" (who indeed have markedly more children than the better off- gee, think there's a connection?) and we will financially implode as a nation with national health care.

Europe at least LIMITS service to citizens only, and then more limits on what is provided. Non citizens go home or pay up front. Even with those parameters, the Europeans who can afford it prefer private care.

What happens to a nation that has no limits, knows no limits,and will sue if anyone spoils the party with the suggestion of limits?




Socialized healthcare
The reason socialized healthcare will balloon healthcare costs at first is because out of pocket costs serve as an incentive for self care. In socialized healthcare, these costs are replaced by the wait or simply lack of availability.

When my mother had her emergency appendectomy as a child in the depression, her parents negotiated with the doc to pay the bill. Because now people can pay without thought with the bottomless pockets of insurance and care has become phenominally more complex, my daughter had two CAT scans in one visit to Beth Isreal Hospital in Boston with the before insurance discounted price coming to over $7000.

Our system of disconnecting service rendered from cost by insurance has caused costs to mushroom. And now socialized medicine threatens to further disconnect it.

Animalgirl
You got me. After 23 years and counting in state social services, I have learned nothing and am teribly ignorant and racist. You're right- we need a big government to take care of our every need. My horribly naive view of economics fails to understand that people will work really hard even if they don't profit, that our greed-free government will always do the right thing with money,and that in all my years of working with the poor- I have imagined that they reproduce with different partners- its all my bigotry projected onto humanity.



I am humbled by your incredible intelligence and obvious vast experience. I don't know what to say in the presence of an economist of your stature and reknown. I shall go read Mein Kompf to rediscipline myself.

Non profit is not socialzed
do soNot for profit organizations rely heavily upon PRIVATE DONATION for standard operation and in partiality to avoid incompetent government meddling. Guess what happens to private donations when confiscatory tax rates are imposed? Do you think everyone tirelessly works for free and services stay high quality?

Healthcare
Michael Moore would have less to complain about if you'd simply come right out and say that poor people's lives are worth less than the rest of us and that's why you object to socialized health insurance.


Re: AudiR10
I am a frequent reader of your posts on Canadian health care and have tried picturing another scenario. You mention that Ontario has two MRI machines in the whole province; I am surmising that either both are in the GTA or one is in Toronto and the other in Ottawa. Then I picked up my atlas to see what a resident of Thunder Bay would be likely to do, what with facing a two day drive to Toronto or Ottawa or driving the approx. 160 miles to Duluth, Minnesota. My money would be bet on Duluth.

The proposal that was known as "Hillary Care" had been planned in secrecy but, when the word got out, it couldn't withstand the light of day.

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