Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, June 19, 2007
Mary Katharine Ham :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Politically Incorrect Americanism of Alba, Pacino, and Arnold
by Mary Katharine Ham
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



Hablas Espanol?

Jessica Alba doesn’t. Is there anything wrong with that? Apparently so.

The third-generation American and actress is under fire this week from fellow Latinos for comments she made to Para Todos magazine:

Alba is my last name and I'm proud of that. But that's it. My grandparents were born in California, the same as my parents, and though I may be proud of my last name, I'm American. Throughout my whole life, I've never felt connected to one particular race or heritage, nor did I feel accepted by any. If you break it down, I'm less Latina than Cameron Diaz, whose father is Cuban. But people don't call her Latina because she's blonde…

My grandfather was the only Mexican at his college, the only Hispanic person at work and the only one at the all-white country club. He tried to forget his Mexican roots, because he never wanted his kids to be made to feel different in America. He and my grandmother didn't speak Spanish to their children. Now, as a third-generation American, I feel as if I have finally cut loose.

My whole life, when I was growing up, not one race has ever accepted me, ... So I never felt connected or attached to any race specifically. I had a very American upbringing, I feel American, and I don't speak Spanish. So, to say that I'm a Latin actress, OK, but it's not fitting; it would be insincere.

She never felt connected to any race, specifically, but she always felt American. That doesn’t sounds like a bad thing, does it? And yet, it is, in the eyes of many activists.

One blog post on the comments remarks, “Guess sell-outs come in all races and sizes.” Another calls it a “disturbing hoard of quotes.” Another claims she “hates Mexicans.”

Comments about Alba’s comments include, “F**K YOU THEN, JESSICA…VIVA LA RAZA!!!,” “She should just change her last name to White, then,” and “I thought she could be a good role model for Latinas, but she is a fake, tryin’ to be white.”

Alba wasn’t trying to make a political statement. Instead, she sounds like she was trying to avoid speaking for an entire ethnicity and many recent immigrants when she barely speaks Spanish, and identifies as an American first. But because she didn’t reflexively take upon herself her ethnic mantle and collective responsibility, she’s bashed as a traitor to her race.

Elsewhere, a phenomenally successful first-generation immigrant was sharing his secret to success in America, which was much the same as the approach Alba’s college-educated grandfather took. When addressing the national Association of Hispanic Journalists, and responding to question about how Hispanics can improve academically, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said:

"You've got to turn off the Spanish television set" and avoid Spanish-language television, books and newspapers, the Republican governor said Wednesday night…

"You're just forced to speak English, and that just makes you learn the language faster," Schwarzenegger said.

"I know this sounds odd and this is the politically incorrect thing to say, and I'm going to get myself in trouble," he said, noting that he rarely spoke German and was forced to learn English when he emigrated from Austria.

The response from those in attendance?

"I'm sitting shaking my head not believing that someone would be so naive and out of it that he would say something like that," said Alex Nogales, president and chief executive of the National Hispanic Media Coalition.

Naïve, out-of-it, hateful, traitorous. There is a large segment of the country that believes it’s somehow disrespectful to emphasize assimilation among new immigrants to the country.

And, it’s not just among leftist activists and left-coast gossip bloggers that this idea prevails. Just last year, Sen. Harry Reid called a proposal to make English the official language of America “racist,”  despite the fact that a large majority of Americans support such a measure.

More recently, Barack Obama called the very discussion of English as an official language, “divisive” during a Democratic debate:

I have to say that this is the kind of question that is designed precisely to divide us. You know, you’re right: everybody is going to learn to speak English if they live in this country. The issue is not whether or not future generations of immigrants are going to learn English. The question is, how can we come up with both a legal and sensible immigration policy? And when we get distracted by those kinds of questions, I think we do a disservice to the American people.

But is everyone going to learn English, Sen. Obama? It seems that Schwarzenegger’s encouragement of English-language immersion for immigrants and Alba’s family’s decision to speak English only are put down in pretty harsh terms by folks on your own side of the aisle.

The movement to make English the official language of America is, in part, a response to the Left’s active discouragement of assimilation. Even the idea of the “melting pot” went out of style when I was in grade school, replaced in text books by the less offensive “mosaic.” You see, now we don’t do anything so gauche as melt into one, cohesive society. Instead, we are all obligated to hold onto our various ethnic and cultural identities and languages, building little barriers between communities, lest we be accused of “selling out” or trying to be too “white.”

There is certainly a way to assimilate without losing all touch with one’s culture. Being American does not mean being “white.” “American” is, by definition, many colors and characteristics. But the strength of America has always been in creating Americans of all colors and characteristics, not all colors and characters who happen to live in America.

The English language and cultural assimilation are unifying forces, economic passports, essential parts of preserving the American dream and all its blessings for everyone who comes to our shores.

When talking about comprehensive immigration reform, some have compared today’s illegal immigrants—the challenges and the prejudices they face—to legal immigration of Italians and Irishmen and others who came through Ellis Island just a few generations ago. But those same people conveniently overlook that anti-assimilation forces in America weren’t nearly so strong at that time.

Al Pacino is a second-generation American whose grandparents emigrated from Sicily, but despite living in his grandparents’ home, he speaks no Italian. Would anyone accuse that iconic Baby Boomer of being a traitor to his ethnicity? Well, he better watch out, if he keeps talking like this:

Explain to me what Italian-American culture is. We've been here 100 years. Isn't Italian-American culture American culture? That's because we're so diverse, in terms of intermarriage. Most everybody who's Italian is half Italian. Except me. I'm all Italian. I'm mostly Sicilian, and I have a little bit of Neapolitan in me. You get your full dose with me.

Alba, Schwarzenegger and Pacino have got it right. Their concern is with becoming successful, individual Americans, not with specious collective responsibilities imparted to them by their skin colors, accents, or surnames. As a result, they have all done both America and their ancestors proud. They are all walking, talking, acting illustrations of the American dream in action.

When considering legalizing 12 million illegal immigrants, Congress should consider seriously the fact that the walking, talking American dream is now politically incorrect. That doesn’t bode well for its survival.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Mary Katharine Ham is a contributor to Townhall Magazine.

Be the first to read Mary Katharine Ham's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

Ms. Alba...
...suddenly you're more beautiful than ever!

Check out a new blog authored by a young conservative:

THE 18th MEMO
http://memo18.blogspot.com/

My "Great"-grand Parents
When my great-grandparents came to this country, they were advised by fellow immigrants that they should teach their children english only. Learn to be American.

I've always appreciated that. I feel like an American. Not a hyphenated american.

at last...a solution
To JMJ – travel much? Obviously, NOT!

To Skip Merkin: I have a solution to your problem. MOVE!

Don’t like that? I have an alternative solution, (next paragraph) which will also solve the illegal aliens problem? Sorry, I meant the illegal immigrants.
If the illegal immigrants are really “stupid, lazy, malingering freeloaders”, hard working USA-ian’s (not to be confused with Americans from Canada, Central America, & South America) have nothing to fear. These are not the people that cause change. Changes are effectuated by the ambitious. The ambitious, in turn, promote the agendas of the influential few (the very rich, and very small minority – not the apathetic majority). The sad reality is, wealth and power can be inherited - while native intelligence remains inalienable (can you think of anyone?). However, in the USA, no one is denied the opportunity to become educated. Moreover, education is the foot stool to wealth and influence. And the best institutions of higher learning in this country will continue to teach in English. Therefore, the fear that we may be compelled to learn a second language if we wish to communicate with policy-makers is nonsense. Perhaps the real fear is, as the composition of melting pot, mosaic, or mixing bowl changes (to XX, the terms are chosen to describe the reality, not to limit it), we may be forced to learn.

Aware that is easy to criticize, but difficult to find solutions, I herein offer a solution to the Mexico problem (as described by Skip Merkin). It is a simple and elegant solution.
As we withdraw troops from Iraq, they should be sent to Mexico, to fight corruption, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on “rotting garbage and soiled diapers”, and primarily, to impose a genuine democracy upon that corrupt, unclean and broken society.


Btw, judging from the title, the cover photo, and the author’s opinions, shall I surmise that Robert Novak has written an autobiography?





Multiculturism is a tool of Socialism.
Which is under the Communist umbrella.

Multiculturism is a type of political correctness that is being used to stir up the races, mainly brown races considered the most oppressed economically and the White Man is to blame for all of this. It's an indoctrination message being conveyed in American Education Camps controlled by communist tools and their higher ups. Look at LaRaza's presence in American Universities and all the Latino spokespersons, many being University professors and such. It has been for years. White students are made to feel guilty and dark students are made to feel they are entitled and America owes them. And, as you can see from our Global friends around the World, this entitlement debilitation of the mind is also being imprinted into minds. The vast lefty-controlled media has done a good job spreading these ideas into peoples' minds.
Also, we must look to why so many illegal aliens feel they are entitled to disrespect our laws with the encouragement and support of their Government and President Bush. One idea that I have points to the signing President Bush did with Vicente Fox and Canada's P.M. at the time. This was 2005, I believe in Mexico. It's called the North American Union. I am willing to wager that Bush, too encouraged them. Especially, seeing his desperation and disappointment in the American people for opposing the Amnesty Bill.

DEAR LIBERAL...

I am part Native American Indian. You wouldn't know it by looking at me.

As soon as I would mention that fact, people always told me to get government aid? To look up my roots? What tribe? Do you feel the pain? Are you angry?

I never mention my nationalities anymore. I always thought I was the same as everyone else. We are special due to our deeds, not our genetics. Liberals think the BMW from daddy makes them pretty.

Of course, Jessica is speaking from her heart. She is not a politician or activist. Just a great person.

What a sign of our great melting pot!

Jessica, you rock!


Divided We Fall
We are not a melting pot. We are a tossed salad. Everything is separate, just as they, the immigrants, and those who support them, want it to be. We are separated from each other. We are not melting together, and that means we are divided.
A house divided against itself cannot stand. Divided, we fall.

Alba and Pachino are right!
And so is anybody else who agress with them. When my ancestors came here from Italy, Germany and Ireland they were treated like crap and they had to come here legally and learn English and had to assimulate, you also have to wonder how many people where turned away for something as simple as a cavity, and that did happened a lot, so these people should be no different. I'm with Alba and Pachino, I'm extremely proud of my heritage but first and foremost I'AM AN AMERICAN!!! and if you don't like it then you kiss my white butt!!!

If you want to be here, if you want to live here then learn how to speak freakin' English and assimulate, and become an American not mexican living in America or whwatever else you are.

Jessica sounds like me
I am (in order of percentage)Swedish (half), Irish (about a quarter), Welsh, French Canadian (which means Wyndake Indian, in truth). Growing up, depending on the holiday, I was Swedish or Irish or Wyndake, but mostly we were American. My father grew up speaking Swedish at home and getting his mouth washed out with soap if he spoke Swedish in public or English at grandma's house (it was considered disrespectful to speak a language she had never heard until in her late-50s). It never occurred to me growing up that I had to claim one ethnicity over another. Then I got to college and Ethnic Pride became an issue. As a joke once, when someone was demanding their props because they were Indian, I noted that I was as Indian as they were, but somebody had forgotten to tell my hair and eyes (they seem to think they're Irish). Suddenly, I was deluged by people demanding that I "embrace" my Indian heritage.

I am proud of my Wyndake ancestors and I am especially proud of Great-great-grandfather Joseph, who chose to leave his Indian ancestery behind to become a "white" trader and businessman who insisted his children get good English educations. He set the standard for saying we were Americans, not some sort of ethnicity.

You go, Jessica! You've nothing to be ashamed of!

Replay to Gestell
Gestell,
I reject the idea that anything I have written would define me as a Cartesian. It takes constraint, but I refrain from answering your introduction of Aristotle and Augustine into the argument with Plato's criticism of the corrupt Sophists who relied more upon pathos in their appeals than upon logos; they were rabble-rousers appealing to baser, selfish instincts. Were I going to dwell on that point, I would note the issue under discussion bears more relationship to social psychology than individual psychology. But I'm not a Platonist either, so I'll remain mute on that.

Certainly, rationality and emotions can run together. It is not irrational to fear a rattlesnake buzzing at your feet. If you recall my first post to you, my complaint was that the Stockholm-syndrome, prisoner-liberals in the academy have abandoned Western rationality, and prefer policy driven by emotions or feelings. I have some friends and relatives who can't utter the word "snake" without a shudder, and would have everyone they see killed on the basis of that feeling. How am I wrong to feel (I like snakes) that there is something wrong with that policy?

There is a tertium guid involved that cannot be reached by mere affect. Even apart from the contrary emotional responses to snakes, what about the snakes? Do the snakes have any interest in surviving? Does nature have any interest in the survival of the snakes? Do we? I'm reminded of the dog that always barks at the letter carrier. The carrier can come and go for 20 years with no other harm than a step at the door and a rattle of the letter box, and still the dog will bark. First of all, the dog is permanently egocentric: the reality of an object is how it makes the dog feel. The dog cannot mediate between behavior and affect because it does not know itself as a self existing over time with relative experiences. The dog cannot represent its own experiences to itself, therefore it has no self per se. In that sense, the sense of representation as thinking, Descartes was quite right in the proposition that he thought and therefore existed.

I suggest -- and you can have the last word on this topic -- that we are still thrashing about in the residual excesses of the Dionysian 70s that Christopher Lasch dubbed "the culture of narcissism." I am sick of that culture. I am sick of the "me-centering" that turns everything into a psychopathology, and transforms a society into a culture of therapods. I am weary of this Brave New World and it's happy happy happy fixes. Still more, I am afraid of its organizers, the coalition of corporate structures, media, and the government that Bernard Gross calls "friendly fascism."

LDO Jim
"It is still a choice for all to be citizens, but every citizen should remember that we are Americans FIRST."

AMEN. I find it appalling that with all these so-called hyphenated-"Americans", it is always the foreign culture which comes first and American last. You can't eat your cake and have it, too.

reply to Brinker-Smith
I think our difference is a genuine philosophical difference. It seems to me that you're operating with a Cartesian style split between rationality and feeling. Such a split is an abstraction, and, as you know, there are a variety of criticisms that have been directed against it for several centuries. I'm assuming something different: a thorough interpenetration of thoughts and feelings, so that human motivation can't be neatly parcelled out and assigned to one or the other with any great precision.

In politics, we see human beings who display mixtures of rationality and emotion. There's no such thing as an approach to politics that is based solely on either end of the continuum. Recognition of this mixture is why Aristotle wrote the "Rhetoric" as well as the "Politics." For him there is nothing inherently illegitimate about a political leader appealing to people's emotions. This need not be fanaticism, since there can be such a thing as a rational appeal to emotions, and specific emotions may be rationally appropriate for specific situations. (I just slipped in a little Augustine and Aquinas there. I have in mind Augustine's view that certain feelings are "ordinate," that is, rationally correlated with appropriate objects, and the tradition of "rational psychology" traceable to Aquinas.

Response to Gestell
Thanks for your response. It's nice to discuss these issues with someone in measured terms.

We live and die between the centipetal and centrifugal tensions of tribe and the world: we want the security of family, sameness and the thrill of the alien, the different. So you are correct. Everyone is both tribal and cosmopolitan, in varying degrees. Yes, conservatives have their tribal and community values just as the liberals do--and everyone else in the world. The affect of identification is the cement of society--just as the conflict arising out of the affect of difference and alienation is the source of social freedom.

But take another look at my post. I'm not defending or attacking these basic principles, per se, and I'm not defending conservatives against liberals. What I am arguing is that it is wrong to base public policy on affect (or worse--politial greed)rather than upon the secular principles law supposedly governing this country.

As for digging up ancestral bones, what I objected to was the idea that any Indian bones or mummified body could be claimed as an ancestor by Indians on the mere grounds of being those of an Indian. I think I am right about that irrationality. Given that principle, all of us ccould reasonably argue those rude antropologists have been digging up and displaying the bones of our ancestors for a couple of centuries now, and they better quit it.

reply to Brinker-Smith
Very good coments. There has been cultural diversity in human societies for millenia. All of the great empires of the past were, in that sense, multicultural. today's postmodern multiculturalists have something else in mind, as you rightly explain. What interests me is the sheer contradictoriness of a lot of this stuff. For example, postmodern thought claims to "de-center" the individual, i.e, to claim that no such thing as individual identity really exists. This would mean that we're all just collections of cultural fragments. Even if this was true, there is no meaningful way to get from that claim to some defense of oppressed, marginalized cultures. Presumably the members of those cultures are just as fragmented as we are in the developed world, so where's the impetus for any sort of multicultural politics?

The French postmodernists, in particular, are on the Left because there is no other respectable place to be if you're a French intellectual.

As for the politics of blood ties, I think that's a problematic line for conservatives to pursue. Much of traditional conservatism is focused on the virtues of peoples and the importance of maintaining cultural identity. Let me give an example, so I don't go on too long here.

You objected to the Native Americans who don't want the bones of their long-dead ancestors used in research, saying that today's tribe has no right to such things. Would you be happy if some anthropologist from France dug up the remains of that ancestor of yours who lies buried in the cemetary of the church in your hometown?

Jessica Alba
I'm very proud of Ms Alba for her statements on being American first. If we're citizens of this country then that's exactly what we are no matter what our backgrounds. Thank you, Jessica for taking the right stand even though it's not the politically correct stand. You go, girl!!!
Bee

Oh! MKH...
...congrats on your notable mention from Laura Ingraham, too! Way to go girl! DD

Ms Alba...
...what an absolute gorgeous young "American" woman. And I lover her attitude. I'll be watching for her movies from now on. It is so difficult for me to watch a movie these days because it'll have a Danny Glover or Alec Baldwin or some other anti-American dirt bag. Which ruins it for me. But I enjoy movies. So its nice to find folks in that business who have an acceptable attitude. Thanks MKH. DD

Destruction of Individualism

Culturalism is a wonderful thing, but how is it possible that we have so many cultures that are so different now than just a mere 300 years ago? Cultures evolve constantly, and as rapidly as technology. American culture today is vastly different than even 50 years ago, as are Mexican, Italian, German, French, etc.... Why this huge push to categorize us all into neat little compartments under specific banners? Why do we need to be in conflict with each other? I think it is necessary to create an environment ripe for socialism by the extreme left.
It is much easier for the smear artists, and professional hate brokers, to point out how we are so different and how we screwed up in the past and create hatred, than to point out our similarities and focus on a future.

Just a few suggestions for the anti-Americans:

If you live in the United States, and wish to become a citizen, make the decision to BECOME an American, not remake it into the country you just left. We are a great nation, and you can choose to join us, but we love our country, faults and all, so don't tell us to change it. We are already in the country and like it the way it is. You are the one that wants in.

We don't ask anyone to abandon their language, keep it, but to be successful in OUR economy, you might want to educate yourself in the language of business, which, at this moment in history, is ENGLISH and MATHEMATICS.

Don't give up your culture, it is important and should be celebrated. We Americans love to try something new, but just remember, all cultures change and adapt, how much effort are you going to expend resisting change? How many native cultures in history have gone before us? Too many to remember. How many people speak Aramaic now?

Don't give up your religion. Again, we love them all, just don't force your religion on me. I will worship my God in the way I see best for me and my family. If we happen to agree, great, but if not, have a great time doing your own thing. We'll still be neighbors, fire up a grill and maybe watch a sporting event on TV.

I am tired of all the banner waving. If you want to wave a banner, pick up an American Flag.

It is still a choice for all to be citizens, but every citizen should remember that we are Americans FIRST. This is our country and our future. Stop wasting my time by complaining how much America should change to meet your needs. Find something more constructive to do with your time, like read the CONSTITUTION.


The Disuniting of America
If you haven't read Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.'s "The Disuniting of America" (it's not a new book), see if you can find one at the library or on Amazon. It is, especially considering it was written by one of the great liberal writers of our time, a bracing look at the progressive Balkinization of America and the forces behind them.

The author, like President Roosevelt (that would be Teddy) bemoan the constant push to ethnicize (is that word?) our American culture. This pressure for ethnicity-consciousness comes, simply, from people in whose best interest (read: $'s) it is to accentuate the differences amoong us rather than our shared country and culture.

Schlesinger - and I - argue that we can never be truly united as long as we have enclaves of phantom "roots" to cultures and countries we may be somehow (hell, I am, genetically speaking, "rooted" in the Northern Mediterranean but I am not Baltic-American!) related to but have never known in any meaningful way.

The ethnic battles for the American pie will continue as long as we condone and give voice to those that would have us be the "hyphenated Americans" spoken of by T.R. We are not where we come from; we rightly strive to be among a common people: The "American race."

At least, I would hope that will be our quest.

Cheers,

Ron Albright

http://www.ronalbright.com

While we're at it...
I'd love to learn Spanish. Let's face it. It's a cool sounding language.

Observations from another country
Perhaps this debate could be helped with analysis from another country's perspective.

Your little southern friend (Australia) used to be one of the most highly racist countries in the world- There used to be a "White Australia" Policy where only Europeans were allowed in (And even mediterraneans were suspect). This law was abolished in 1971. Only about 35 years ago! Australia has NEVER had the free and accepting immigration policy of the United States until very recently.

Nowadays, no one bats an eyelid about race. In 5 years, the number of non european descended Australians will pass 25%. The Premiers of the two largest states of the Country (Similar to Governors) are of Italian and Lebanese descent. The Mayor of the second largest city in the country still speaks with an appreciable chinese accent (And has a tongue in cheek song made about it by a popular music group). This is not because they "assimilated" or had to abandon all their cultural heritage. No one ever talks of "The Italian Vote" or "The Chinese vote." This was because they got over racial hangups and just accepted that people are different- but we all enjoy a good game of football and that Cricket is the game they play in Heaven and that tea is superior to any other beverage on Earth which isn't alcoholic. Most importantly, that the law which applies across the land must be the same.

If a completely racist and unfair country can turn into a happy multicultural mix in the space of 20 years, then a country which is proud of giving people a fair chance to just live their own lives in peace shouldn't have any problems, right?

Should just stop thinking about race, and start thinking about Culture. Ms Alba may be descended from all sorts of races- but her culture is American. Mr Schwarzenegger is of pan-German descent- but he has taken on the American dream and won. Culture itself is a mix of so many things- who is to say that a Bostonian is similar to a Texan, or even Texans from different parts of the state? Even my home city of Sydney is split into North, East, West, Inner West, and Southern cultures! We're all still Australians!

In such a way, multiculturalism is the norm and should be embraced. How boring if everyone had to act as if they were former British Colonists! MultiRacism, however, is wrong.

Hispanic
The so called Hispanic vote is very fragmented. There is a big difference among Central Americans, Columbian or Venezulans, South Americans, Cubans, Puetro Ricans, Northern Mexicans and more Southern Mexicans.

They have different values, foods, accents and issues. The immigration issue affects them quite differently. A fence effects some of these segments differently and I strongly suspect that some of them are in favor of the fence.

We are making the mistake of lumping them all into a stereo type that they do not fit. If we as a party get serious about the so called Hispanic vote we can get a lot more of it but will have approach it's unique niches with different issues.

"The Great American Melting Pot"
I'm sure the other older posters remember "Schoolhouse Rock" on Saturday mornings. Here are the lyrics to one of my favorites....when most of our country actually had some wisdom.



My grandmother came from Russia
A satchel on her knee,
My grandfather had his father's cap
He brought from Italy.
They'd heard about a country
Where life might let them win,
They paid the fare to America
And there they melted in.
Lovely Lady Liberty
With her book of recipes
And the finest one she's got
Is the great American melting pot.
The great American melting pot.

America was founded by the English,
But also by the Germans, Dutch, and French.
The principle still sticks;
Our heritage is mixed.
So any kid could be the president.

You simply melt right in,
It doesn't matter what your skin.
It doesn't matter where you're from,
Or your religion, you jump right in
To the great American melting pot.
The great American melting pot.
Ooh, what a stew, red, white, and blue.

America was the New World
And Europe was the Old.
America was the land of hope,
Or so the legend told.
On steamboats by the millions,
In search of honest pay,
Those 19th-century immigrants sailed
To reach the U.S.A.

Lovely Lady Liberty
With her book of recipes
And the finest one she's got
Is the great American melting pot
The great Anerican melting pot.
What good ingredients,
Liberty and immigrants.

They brought the country's customs,
Their language and their ways.
They filled the factories, tilled the soil,
Helped build the U.S.A.
Go on and ask your grandma,
Hear what she has to tell
How great to be an American
And something else as well.

Lovely Lady Liberty
With her book of recipes
And the finest one she's got
Is the great American melting pot
The great American melting pot.

The great American melting pot.
The great American melting pot.





"And there they melted in".....indeed.


America is a team...
Nobody expects anyone to be ashamed of where they or their ancestors came from, but when you join our society your allegiences have to shift.

When a basketball player switches teams, they aren't expected to forget about the years they spent on their previous team or deny that they ever happened.

But you'll never see them playing games in their old uniform, nor will they be allowed to score for the other team.

And you'll never see any of them hyphenating themselves: "I'm a Maverick-Laker" or, "I'm a Piston-Bull".

You play for one team, and that team deserves your total allegience. It doesn't mean you have to erase your history, but it does mean that you have to let go of it and give your heart to your new team.

That way, when it comes time to dunk on one of your old teammates, you won't hesitate.

From where?
I was born here. I am a native.

I was born here. The fact that my great grandparents immigrated does not make me an immigrant.

My wife was born in Hong Kong. She thinks she's an American. She also thinks she's Chineese. No hyphens for her.

Both my children think they are Americans and object when anyone tries to classify them as anything else.

Too simple. Too easy.

Diversity, But Only One Race
What a great article! It's only common decency to learn to speak the language of whatever country you are visiting or living in, and
those who would like to make a "race war" out of Alba's statements need to realize that while people may come from different countries or cultures, there's only one "race": the HUMAN race.

Alba not too bright
It appears that you left out one very important sentence from Alba's comments.

"I've got cousins galore. Mexicans just spread all their seeds. And the women just pop them out."
http://www.mediatakeout.com/7187/jessica_alba_dont_call_me_a_latina.html

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be American and not characterized as a Latina actress but don't make a racist, ignorant comment and not expect criticism.

Alba doesn't need to learn Spanish but she does need a better publicist because she is definitely not media savvy. Poor girl. All looks no brains. She should dye her hair blonde.

Alba
The subversive groups LaRaza and MEChA attack Alba for speaking her truths. Mexicans cross our borders and maintain their allegience to a country that looked upon them as trash and does nothing to present a better quality of life for them. That perverted loyalty is INSANE.
"Assimilation Refusal is the first seed planted to overthrow a Nation. Any Nation accepting "Assimilation Refusal" as politically correct will eventually no longer be its own Nation."
American Infidel ,
Michael Canzano

Aren't We All?
I am quite proud of Jessica and what she did in simply saying that she felt no connection to a single ethnic group – other than American, a melting pot, if you will, a mixture.
Why, is the question on my mind, would anyone harass her for saying, “Um, no, I don’t feel like a Mexican. I’m an American.” Is that not what we all are? Despite all of our ethnic backgrounds and the colour of our skin, if we are citizens of this country then we ARE Americans.
And I am very proud to say that is what I am, too.
Keep it up, Jessica.

So would I Arby
More like your grandmother and my paternal grandmother from Prussia who later was a teacher in American public schools.

My hat is off
to the many people responding to this article who know more than one language. I can't imagine too many things nowadays that are more helpful than that. Wish I had done more of that myself in high school and college.

My hat is also off to Jessica Alba and others for their pro-American attitude. This country has plenty wrong with it, but I still think it's the best choice in the world.

I fail understand people who supposedly want to immigrate, or at least to live here and are even willing to sneak across the border to do it -- and yet, they don't wish to BE American. They want to live here, work here, make money here, have children here, buy property here -- but they don't really want to BE in America or to BE Americans. They just want to perform some capitalistic functions here, I guess. Preserving a little ethnic culture is one thing; refusing to learn the language of your new and chosen home or to assimilate in any other way -- well, why come at all? Only to take?

My grandparents came here from Lithuania. Neither one spoke English, but they learned. Their daughters (my mother and my aunt) spoke NO Lithuanian. It was never spoken at home. No one was prouder to be an American than my grandmother. Frankly, I'd like to see a few more immigrants of my grandsparents' ilk.

Collectivism
Like Gestell, I am an academic, a profession multiculturalists and moral relativists have all but destroyed. It's not rocket science: when the critical tools of analysis and reason are dismissed as irrelevant, what is there left to the academies except indoctrination, propaganda?

The postmodern ideologies imported from Europe, especially France, are not primarily academic, intellectual, or even philosophical; they are political doctrines. And they are doctrines aimed at the dissipation of all human bases of individuation. Think about it. Given a philosophy of cultural relativism and moral equivalency, what is there to choose from among cultures or societies? How are such antiquated and inhumane values as are now dominating fundamentalist Islam to be compared to a more humane, secular culture. As you may have noted, the multiculturalists and moral relativists are either mute or equivocal on that point. The fact is, multiculturalists don't give a damn about culture; they can't -- one culture is no better or worse than any other. What's to care about?

All that is desired is to have a political collectivity -- useful idiots if you will -- that will march in line under the flags of their identities, their racial, cultural, ethnic backgrounds. The lack of any base of rational analysis means that emotion, not reason, is the controlling factor. In fact, much of the current pandering to identity politics was called "primitive" before we had multiculturalism. For example, take the idea of "blood guilt." What else could you call the idea that the present society is guilty of slavery and owes reparations to blacks who were never slaves? Does anyone really believe that Indians of today have many more right to claim the mummified bodies, or bones, of long dead Indians than museums? What could possibly be the rational basis of such a claim? The tribalistic basis for such claims have nothing to do with reason, but rather with the the group's sense of blood ties, those old primitive ideas long gone from the Western world -- at least until recently. In brief, the tools of multiculturalism are the primary forces of collectivism.

The idea of the rational, autonomous individual who could be trusted to be at liberty to pursue self-realization, self-actualization, through his development and interactions with his fellow citizens was the the ideology of the American Constitution and changed the face of much of the world. In that ideology there was no room for sacrificing personal conscience, freedom of speech, freedom of thought people in the altar of tribal superstitions or conformity to the feelings of others. Although our common citizenship owes reverence and respect to the rights, freedoms, and feelings of others, our intellects, our reason, owes reference to nothing beyond it's own integrity.

I think it was in Lincoln's "Cooper Union" Speech where he challenged his critics over his faith in the people: "Is there any better hope?"






WRONG, bush lover, "these immigrants"
don't "show" anything of the sort. Alba and Pacino are native born Americans, and Gov. Schwarzenegger emigrated from Austria legally in 1968, long before any "comprehensive" immigration screw-ups. Bush's cronies ARE going to pay a political price for this mess if it passes.

BTW, updated info, NEW BILL# S. 1639!!! Looks like they threw the whole thing in the blender and hit "puree", people must have been getting too good a look at what was in S. 1348. THROW THE BUMS OUT.

Brava!!! Miss Alba
I say a big "BRAVA AND BRAVO" to Miss Alba, The "Terminator" and Miss Ham. This is AMERICA, not Mexico, not Germany, not Switzerland. LISTEN UP YOU TRANSPLANTS ... IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BECOME AMERICAN, THEN STAY THE FLIP IN "YOUR" COUNTRY AND STOP BOTHERING US. You have NO RIGHT to try to change America into your country. If you want to bring your customs with you, fine - just don't try to cram them down our throats! You remember that and we'll get along just fine.

Adjust, assimilate and associate, OR STAY THE HELL IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

ScottyDog- Arnold is out chasing after
photo ops with "Pancho Villaraigosa" and New York Turncoat Michael Bloomberg.

Don't look for any help from his direction.

Stevie Ray - maybe so but
when you have people who live here generation after generation and still consider Spanish their primary language, something is wrong.

My mother's grandfather was from Germany, and couldn't speak English. Her father spoke languages, and had a German accent, which incidently embarassed my mother.

But my mother spoke NO German, had no German characteristics and did not wave the German flag at pro German rallies during WWII.

I know nothing about Germany, have never visited there, have no interest in visiting, don't know any of my distant relatives who probably still live there, and have no interest in their culture.

Spanish speaking residents continue to live here, have children here and grandchildren here, who still consider themselves Mexican, still speak Spanish, still root for the Mexican soccar teams, and act with hostility toward us "gringos," (when THEY are the "gringos").

This is what we consider to be intolerable.

Pancho Villaraigosa
English is the official language in California, we voted on it and it passed by 80%. It is a crime in California do transact business with the stat in other than English.

Yet Pancho Villaraigosa gives speeches in Los Angeles in Spanish.

I say some enterprising attorney needs to file a lawsuit against Pancho Villaraigosa for violating the laws of our once great state.

He is a traitor that aids and abets illegal immigration.

Where is Arnold when you need him?

typo/Freudian Slip
I meant to say that Arnold was HANGING out at Teddy Kennedy's beach house, not handing out.

The handing out is what he plans to do with my tax money, to illegal aliens in order to buy their votes!!!

Does he care about MY vote?

Eh, not so much.

Understanding
For what it's worth, I am an English speaking American of Irish/Italian immigrant stock. I've been trying to learn Spanish (supposedly an easy language to master) for the last five years or so. That means I watch Univision (and Telemundo) because there's no better way to learn a foreign language than to hear it every day. I am at the point where I understand Spanish pretty well. If I hear it on TV or on the street, I know what's being said. Even so, I am very reluctant to speak it because I don't have confidence in my ability to speak it correctly. I typically say things like "this pencil is tasty. Do you tomorrow my shoes?" I can understand why many people who have Spanish as a first language are self conscious about speaking English, because I am self-conscious about my Spanish. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. There's already enough hate going around.


Drew - hate to burst your bubble
but before you go around calling the Governator a "great American," better go check out his plans for universal health care in California.

I suspect that he has been handing out at Unca Teddy's beach house a couple of times too often!

SteveB
I think there is some truth in what you say.

Many, however, understand and use a sort of tex-mex which they quickly forget if someone who is obviously good in Spanish shows up or asks a question of them. I have seen this a number of times.

I hope, however, that you are right.

Border region, losing spanish
I also live on the border near Brownsville. When we moved here three years ago I was surprised to find out how many of the students in my son's new school were of Mexican descent yet did not speak spanish. Possibly the same phenomena that had Jessica Alba's parents and grandparents teaching her english only.

I think many, probably even a large majority, do want to fit in to America as americans first. Perhaps it's just a vociferous minority - vociferous because the liberal media affords them more of a voice than they are due - that don't want to integrate.


Damn Right
Damn right Gabby, real Americans don't watch Univision. I would go so far as to say you can't be a good, patriotic American without being able to speak English - President Bush and his "sueno americano es para todos" nonsense.

Miss Alba just went up in my estimation. Compare her statements to Eva Longoria, who seems to be unable to open the hole under nose without the phrase "as a Mexican..." coming out of it. Ms. Longoria may be easy on the eyes, but she's got a room temperature IQ.

Rationalist
I'm a proud naturalized American who is grateful to be living in the land of opportunity and grateful to my parents for having the forsight to seek the American dream. Lest you forgot or out of sheer ignorance, it was the Hawiaan people who sought statehood. Perhaps they had a greater appreciation than you for America's virtues. You, through your "irrational" rants have only proved that you are neither "rational" or American.

Why?
Why is it not okay for Americans to insist on English being the official language, yet every country in the world promotes their own official language? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't propose that we outlaw other languages but I do propose that we make english official for business and government. What you speak in your home is your business alone. What you speak in public and insist I pay for then becomes my business because quite frankly you made it that way. America has it's own culture and identity. There is nothing wrong with that. My grandmother refused to teach me Choctaw because she said that I am first and foremost American, and I was never to forget that. America is indeed a melting pot and I am living proof with my ancestry, as probably with most on this board. Just think what it would be like with every race, religion, and creed coming to this country if we didn't have one dominant language. Failure is what it would be like. complete failure.

I Like Them Before
I liked Al Pacino and Scgwarzenegger before, now I think they are great Americans. And I love Jessica Alba, now more than ever!

I know people from Mexico that came here and learn English and worked hard to be Americans. They are great people and fellow citizens. They think that this amnesty bill is wrong too, since they did have to wait in line.

English should be our national language, a country must have common one to survive. We can no be a salad bowl we must be a melting pot. Each new group into America adds to our own culture and makes it stronger. If we all went to live in Mexico I suspect that we would have to learn Spanish.

I have a mixed background myself with ancestors from England, Wales, Ireland, Scottland, Norway, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, and Cherokee. But I'm all American and those identities help to solidify that.

American
I'm of Hispanic heritage and feel the same way Alba feels. My parents were born in America and well as my grandparents. America is my culture and heritage; however when I told some first generation American Hispanics this they say that I’m trying to be white, which to me is the most ignorant statement I’ve ever heard. I refuse to be cast in to what they think a Hispanic should be and actually would rather be called an American rather than Hispanic.

America is for the Americans
And good for Alba, Schwarzenegger and Pacino for saying as much. I always though Al Pacino in particular was a genius; now I've got another reason to dig him.

Christopher P
Indeed...now perhaps after being shown the way by these three celebrities, more "names" will find the intestinal fortitude to come out in support on one America!

your last sentence says it all! The #1 item on the agenda of liberals is that they MUST DIVIDE our country! How I wish we could reunite into the country we once were...UNITED WE WILL STAND, DIVIDED WE WILL FALL!!! You can bet your last $ on that!

Doug
You are a little out of date on Mexican laws. You are hitting the nail on the head, and I concur with 90+% of what you have said.

However,
1. Mexico has changed a number of it's laws.
A child born outside Mexico with at least one parent of Mexican citizenship can claim citizenship also.

2. Foreigners who take Mexican citizenship have to give up a citizenship, but as always there are exceptions. One lady I know who is a professor in an institution of higher learning in Mexico gave up her Philippine citizenship to become a naturalized Mexican. She didn't however give up her U.S. citizenship since her parents are U.S., but she was born in the Philippines. Mexico today recognizes double citizenship, but only of those born with Mexican citizenship.

3. Foreigners today can own a business or a home, although the privately held property still comes under some special law, but it is yours. Corporations and legalized businesses are considered Mexican even if the owner is not, and can own anything and do anything a business could normally do.

4. And of course a Mexican never loses his/her citizenship back home in Mexico unless he went to a consulate, embassy or Government office in Mexico, and declared himself non Mexican.

The same is true for the U.S. Many U.S. nationals have or have taken after birth citizenship in one or more foreign countries, and it doesn't change their U.S. citizenship unless they legally in front of certain officers declared themselves as non U.S.

I have not and probably (never say never) will never take a foreign citizenship. My father, many years ago, told me, never lose your U.S. citizenship. It's the most valuable thing you have, and what everyone else wants to have.

Alba, Schwarzenegger, Pacino
All make valid point in the comments quoted in this column. I commend them for their comments and taking a politically incorrect position on the issue.

I find it ironic and sad that those who are for the immigration bill and oppose making English the official language label us who oppose the bill and support making English the official language as racist, yet when someone like Ms. Alba make the statement she made they resort to the language of racists.

Is this a racial issue? Yes. But more so because those who are for the bill in the Senate and against English as the official language are the racist ones. They want the racial divide so that we will not unite as Americans because as long as we are divided as a nation it is easier to keep us in control and conquer us.

Good for her!
What breath of fresh air. At least she's being honest.

Immigration is a Misnomer
In discussing illegal aliens, most lump all foreign nationals living in the US into one group “undocumented immigrants”. Discussions of “amnesty” often assumes bot “immigration” and an almost universal desire for obtaining US citizenship. The strong desire for US citizenship just doesn’t exist among the largest element of foreigner workers who are in this country illegally.

While illegal aliens are not specific to any particular race, ethnic group, or nationality, by far the largest group of individuals illegally in this country are Mexican citizens.

Most illegal aliens from Mexico are here as economic refugees. I would suggest that these comprise the bulk of our “immigrants.” They are here almost solely because uneducated and unskilled/semi-skilled laborers have few financial opportunities for economic betterment in the current and foreseeable Mexican economy.

Many of these individuals have no long-term plan for remaining in the United States. There are here simply to make enough money to meet the needs of their families and intend to return home once they are financially able to. Because successfully crossing the boarder has become more difficult, many have to stay here longer to earn enough to pay for the necessary bribes and needed transportation to re-enter the US at a later date. While they may enjoy the economic opportunities available in America, they love THEIR country, THEIR culture, and THEIR language.

Other economic refugees do not have strong family ties in Mexico and come here with plans of staying indefinitely. As with those with more temporary plans, they consider the US as only a job location; considering themselves as simply Mexican expatriates. While they will freely take advantage of US jobs, welfare programs, education, and other economic opportunities presented them in the US, they do not consider themselves as Americans, only as Mexicans living in the United States.

Most of the individuals comprising these two groups of illegal aliens have no intent or desire for assimilation into US society --beyond what is absolutely necessary to obtain employment and services. Their allegiances are to their native country. Ask such a group of illegal aliens if they would willingly renounce their citizenship to their country of origin. I have found most that most Mexicans living in the US are very strongly patriot towards Mexico. While many seem to be willing to accept dual-citizenship, most would be most unwilling to trade their Mexican citizenship for US citizenship; particularly if such status would in any way impede their ability to return “home” at will. It well recognized by Mexicans citizens living in the US, that the government of Mexico does not extend full constitutional protections to foreigners, even former Mexican nationals. Unlike the US, the Mexican government does not permit foreign nationals, even legal residents, to own either property or to own a business. In a similar manner, the right of free speech enjoyed by Mexico’s citizens, is most definitely NOT extended the government to foreigners–irrespect of their place of birth.

To most Mexican citizens illegally living and working in the US, the proposed “road to US citizenship” is not viewed with form of universal desirability, and to most it holds no appeal whatsoever. To these individuals, the proposed amnesty provisions will simply provide them with a more open ability to work in the US, take broader advantage of social-welfare programs, and enable the sponsorship and the movement to the US of other family members. It will do absolutely nothing to assist in any form of assimilation into US–and will likely reenforce the “state-within-a-state” cultural issues that the Congressional amnesty/”immigration” program is intended to “cure.”

The ONLY thing the proposed congressional immigration bill will achieve will be a greater influx of foreigners seeking to take advantage of economic opportunities. Those businesses that support the congressional “immigration” proposal will obtain more workers in the short run, but long-term will have to seek other avenues for “cheap-labor” once these prior illegal aliens are able to legally avail themselves and demand enforcement of minium wage laws and employment benefits.

In this instance, the unintended consequences are not unforeseen consequences. A reasonable person fully expect that every existing and recognized problem associated with illegal aliens, except their status, will be significantly exacerbated should the “immigration” policies under consideration be enacted into law.

vidyohs
Beautiful writing. You nailed it to Gastell.

By the way, am I the only one who upon reading his/her writing yesterday, thought the writer was a WOMAN. In fact the impression was so strong that after wading through several more of his/her posts and some counter posts came to the realization that maybe him/her might be a GUY.??.

Liberals usually sound rather feministic don't they.??. Could it be that their head problem is hormonal.??. Women should normally sound like women, but if Gazell is a man.??.

Eyes on the prize - the division is
intentional.

Marxism has been proven to be an absolute failure, while capitalism is generally a success, and creates prosperity for all, albeit on a long scale.

When people are blended together, content and living in harmony in our democratic, capitalistic nation, the worldwide socialists don't have a prayer (not that they want one).

They have to create an artificial seperation between Americans, and to stir up discontent in order to get any leverage.

Unfortunately, the normal people just sit on their hands and watch the George Soros's of the world tear down the country we love, as if this is not happening to them.

It reminds me of the passive blonde people from The Time Machine, who just let the other people eat them.

Exploitation
The immigrants are being taken advantage of and being exploited by PAC's. These guys form these committee's for money and power and brand anyone a racist ot traitor that disagree's with them. If they need a poster child they should lay off Jessica(I knew I liked this girl) and adopt Selma Hayek who is a socialist. She will do the job quite nicely.

a "salad bowl'" or a "salsa bowl"
I think the intention of the La Raza fanatics is clear: they want to fill up the South Western United States with Latin Americans.

Their next step will be to start whining about "Apartheid." After all, there are so many more brown people than whites!

The useful idiots in Congress are playing into their hands by creating a situation that would be equal to apartheid. Any guest worker program that creates a permanant underclass is creating apartheid.

The next step is to start the international socialist thugs to howling about this inequitable situation in the United States, and we will be shamed into giving up the country that WE built, just like what happened in South Africa.

It can happen here, don't be so naive as to think it can't. And it will if we don't stand up for controlled borders NOW!!!

Meanwhile conservatives sit on their lazy hands and watch the country our forefathers build erode away.

It is a crying shame.

racial spoils system
At the root of this is the racial spoils system that has evolved here.

Ever notice how many minorities have been lumped in as "white"? Everyone who isn't in a preferred interest group. Many Italians are indistinguishable from many Hispanics. But the former are "white" and the latter get preferences. Similarly, many Jews are indistinguishable from many Arabs. Again, the former are "white" and the latter have special status. Why?

And why have cultural differences between different "white" groups been painted over? Is the majority of America Polish or Lithuanian? How are their cultures less worthy of promotion and special interest than Hispanic or Black culture? Have not the various groups of European immigrants added zest to the American experience?

But no, we are all "white" and indistinguishable to the current ruling class. Only certain people count. The rest of us are treated like dime a dozen trash if we are middle class and working hard to make a place for ourselves in this brave new world.

I find it
ironic that Mexican activists have such a love for Spanish, the language of the conquerors, the language of the WHITE man.

Proud AMERICAN !!!
I can most certainly identify with Miss Alba. I am a third gen American; both sets of grand parents emmigrated from Mexico in 1917 and 1910 repsectively legally I might add, both my parents were born in the U.S.(Los Angeles and Fillmore CA), Neither of my grand mothers spoke English(both grandfathers died before I was born), Both of my parents are bi-lingual and all of my cousins, my sister and I speak little or no Spanish. I am extremely proud of my Mexican heritage, but that pride pales in comparison to my pride of being an AMERICAN. Our English language and our culture is what binds us together as a people. In my view, being an America is a state of mind, and an embracement of the American culture and traditions. Rather than abandoning their culture, each immigrant brings their culture to add to ours. Look how Bagals, Tortillas and Pita bread are now part of out culture.

I think the Mexican flag is beautiful as is the legend of the eagle on it, but it's the American flag I fly in front of my home. I'm a rock and roller from the get go, but I also love to listen to Mariachi music even though I can't understand the lyrics, and lets face it, what's Christmas without Tamales?


America divided
The Socialist-Democrats want a "mosaic" or "salad bowl" America.

That way the S-D politicians can pander to each "diverse" group one at a time, telling each group exactly what they want to hear.

It's very difficult to pander to a united and homogenous America; a fractured America is easier to control.

Color of skin
I have always thought that someone who had to stoop so low as to grasp the color of his skin as his primary source of pride and identity is a person of no consequence. Only slightly above this is a person who celebrates allegiance to their ethnic heritage in anything more substantial than family dinners and folk dancing. I hold white trash losers celebrating their Aryan heritage in just as much contempt as losers of any other skin tone and ancestral homeland who make this random act of genetics and parentage the center of their universe.

Arnold's English
It would seem odd to have Arnold Schwarzenegger as a proponent of English first, but consider that he is best known for making English language movies, and for giving all of his gubernatorial speeches in English.

What Does Being American Mean?
If you're one of those people who makes Jessica Alba wrong because she is simply American, what are you saying about what it means to be American? Do you mean it's white Protestant? And do you hate white Protestants?

If you do, it's kind of a complement when you flip it over. The white race has dominated the West and been running empires, and to say the US belongs to us white Protestants is a complement because this is a great nation.

On the other hand, the truth is there's more black hair than blonde hair to be seen when you look out over the crowds. There are two uses of the word "own." One is about the legal piece of paper on what you bought. The other use of "own" is acceptance of what you've got and what you've done.

It's time for you who make a person's self-characterization "wrong" to own up to what you're really saying and own your nasty biases, and I will do so as well for my own.

mixed ancestory
All four of my grandparents came to the United States - legally. They never had to worry about being deported.
My grandparents had to learn English and they did.
All of my grandparents came from countries that have duel national languages. To this day this causes so many problems for the citizens. They get to pay taxes to support everything legal in all languages. Talk about higher taxes.
The multiply languages does not bring a country together it tends to divide; sometimes obviously other times very subtlety.
One country one language.
Has anyone noticed that it seems always to be something - American. The American never comes first


It was 20 years ago
that I was forced to endure a speech at a faculty meeting. The speaker was from the Anti-Defamation League and her topic was the "End of the Melting Pot". In the place of the melting pot, she said, was the salad bowl where each of the vegetables stand out in their bright colors. Back then, I knew her ideas were all wrong. The melting pot has been our strength. As the gene pool has increased for the better, so too has the cuture as each new group adds something and we all, over time ,assimilate to each change. The glue to our culture has been a common language just as it has been in other countries.

GESTELL
The discussion has been long but I will weigh in anyway.

Several of the participants congratulated you for your reasoned tone, I do also, even though I can not praise your ability to read, hear, or think. your original post on this subject says a lot to support my inability to praise you.

In no, I repeat NO, public discussion on this subject has any conservative, neoconservative, or seperatist(if they exist) ever said anything about English as the "only" language. The idea has always been expressed as English as the "official" language.

You repeatedly mention your "status" as an academic, but the simple difference between the two concepts above fly right over your lofty head. Which is pretty much what we routinely see in most left-wingers.

You asked an absolutely stupid question, "would conservatives like to see China-towns be eliminated and the buildings and culture blended in?" Only a true idiot could suspect that enough to state it as a "reasonable" question, even a rhetorical question.

I don't know of any one on the right that cares about what people speak in their own homes, or among their friends. I don't know of any one that cares if their is Spanish language TV and radio, who cares.

What is only intelligent is that there be one common....did you get that GESTELL....a common language so that all people in this nation can effectively communicate when it is required by circumstance, situation, or design.

Why is that such a difficult concept to you, GESTELL?

English has been the dominant language in this nation since its formation. Yes, the USA has taken over some portions where once Spanish was dominant, history and history only, it is meaningless to making it in public life today.

The lesson in the story of The Tower of Babel is not religious, it is about unity. The story teaches that when people are fragmented by their inability to communicate in one common language strife and conflict inevitably follow. Why are there so many many left-winger (Chomskyites) that are too stupid to learn a lesson thousands of years old?

Last but not least, I am learning Spanish now, not because I have to but because I want to. I love to travel in Latin America and I am smart enough to know that the experience will be much more rewarding if I can speak the language of the places I am visiting.

Assimilation WITH representation
I will now make a point of seeing anything this great American does in the future. This is what America has always been about. Governator Arnold gets it too. He is right, not naive. What is naive is to think the USA can survive if we are Balkanized. (Better that we all hang together than be hung or beheaded separately. Yendis

Assimilation...
I read Gestell's comments about his belief that conservatives want immigrants to feel shame about their native tongue. I'm one conservative who disagrees with that opinion.
As an American, with a healthy dose of Mexican, Irish, and Apache blood, my dad's ancestors kept their language but learned English quickly when they headed north. You can take part in the melting pot while holding on to some aspects of your culture. Some of your culture you do need to leave behind...different laws, social mores, etc. That's the price of new citizenship in a (any) new nation.
Learning the English language allows immigrants to succeed $$$ more quickly than those that do not learn English. It's as simple as that. There are some jobs you'll NEVER have access to if you don't speak English. There are many people, who would enrich the lives of you and your family, that you will NEVER befriend if you don't speak the primary language of this land.
Forcing immigrants to learn the language is not cruel. On the contrary, we are speeding up their journey to success.

None
"I can only hope that the USA does not lose its Judeo-Christian and capitalistic foundations. There are forces here who'd love to accomplish that."

May God Bless America!

BrianR & oldguy
BrianR - so true re: hyphenated Americans! IMO, ALL hyphenated groups in our Congress should be dissolved immediately! They serve no purpose other than to divide our country. The "black" -"hispanic" caucuses are a joke! They simply are legalized vote robberies...our way or we won't support you! How about a "white" caucus? How far would that get before being labeled "racist"??????

oldguy - Yes, Indeed, Teddy Roosevelt had the right outlook on America. One flag, one language, one allegiance!

If La Raza doesn't like what Alba or Schwartzenneger says, I believe they should give themselves a long, hard look in the mirror. It is not a pretty picture!

Finally, if the government doesn't know where these illegals are to round them up, I strongly suggest they simply attend one of the many "marches" come May 1 (the day the Communists celebrate!)

Nice
Those tolerant leftists are only tolerant if you're living according to their script. Otherwise, you're worthy of the name calling and death wishes seen on their blogs.
You know what's funny? Alba is a big fan of Obama and Hillary and Oprah. So much for embracing your fellow supporters of liberals.

Americanism
Three days before he died, Teddy Roosevelt wrote..."We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here and that is the English language, for we intend that the crucible turns out our people as Americans.....and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding house."
True then and even more so today.

shempy larue
I teach in a predominantly Hispanic area of Dallas, and have found that English is NOT required to live in the area.
I went into a Bank of America in the area to transact some business, and the maager had to find someone who spoke English to complete the transaction.
There are 3rd and 4th generation Hispanics in the area who barely speak English. Most of the TVs in the are turned to Univision, Telemundo, or one of the other Spanish language independent stations in Dallas. The Dallas Morning News even prints a Spanish version called Al Dia. With all of this media assistance there is little need to learn English in the area.
I will say that I wholeheartedly agree with Alba, the Governator, and Pacino on their stands in re English and being Americans first.

Good For Jessica!
I'm tired of hearing about how Jessica Alba is a traitor to her "race" which is a culture that does not full accept her anyway. I'm happy she is so assimilated and proud to be American. There are many immigrants that want their children to be as well adjusted and assimilated as Jessica is. I actually support her more now knowing that she is proud of the place where she grew up. And identifies as an America, rather than Mexican or Latina, both of which she hardly has ties too. I think the backlash people need to stop and reexamine their own lives and culture and identity. Once again, good for Jessica!

Great one
Great column, Mary Kat! The fact that supposedly serious people in the Hispanic community condemned the Governator and Alba's comments shows that most Latinos have NO desire to assimilate into Americans. None. Zilch. OK, "nada". I work in the restaurant business in GA and, I'll tell you: They're laughing at us! They think the "reconquista" is underway, and many truly believe that the USA is going to cede the Southwest back to Mexico. I'm talking about average, young (20's to 30's yr. old range) Hispanics. I speak a little Spanish and they don't know it, so I listen-- they think they've got us on the run. I think they may be right.

I suspect that ....
Gestelle is one of those intellectual fellows who lives in the world of their mind. With mental capacities far beyond the abilities of everyday folks such as myself the only thing I should do is listen in reverant awe.
Be quick, let us fall on our knees and make him king.

Guy named Bob Grant .... hit it on the head!
Fakes, Phonies, and Frauds!

Correction...
I think I should have said Registered Republican third and Eurasian descent last.

Simple Post...
I am Christian first...

American second...

Of Eurasian descent third...

Registered Republican fourth.

And if expressing my nationality as "American" is anathema to some bigoted, Hispanic extremists, then so be it. That is what I am. I am PROUD to be an American. I am happy to be an American. I am grateful to be living here. When I was born in a Manhattan hospital several decades ago, I won the lottery.

I'd rather live here than pretty much any Latin-American country I can think of... or African country... or some Asian countries... or even European countries.

The Latin American and African countries are third-world and corrupt. Half of the Asian states are communist or otherwise dangerous to Christians (altho America may become likewise if the loony left extremists have their way). And Europe is too socialistic, too morally decadent, too weak, too pompous, too far removed from its Christian roots to be of any interest to me.

I can only hope that the USA does not lose its Judeo-Christian and capitalistic foundations. There are forces here who'd love to accomplish that.

BTW... La Raza (or "The Race") is something I believe all patriotic Americans need to pay very close attention to. Any individual or any org identifying itself with that term should raise some alarms in the minds of Americans.

Assimilation and Language
Has anyone noticed that Gestell, never responded to EllisWyatt's reasoned explanation of "assimilation and language" which Gestell spoke of in his first post? It appears he had no response or did not want to agree and thus have his point removed!

a stopped clock is right twice a day
Thus when Arnold Schwartzenegger actually managed to say something true recently, I shouldn't have been astonished.

But he has been such a turn-coat recently, that I have come to expect only Left-wing drivel to fall out of his Trojan Horse mouth.

Watching his governorship is kinda like watching one of his Terminator movies: you never know if the evil Arnold is showing up or the good one.

My suspicion is that he has always been the bad android, posing as the good one to fool us. He has been drinking the Kennedy Koolaid, and there is no turning back.

Switzerland
Switzerland is home to 7 million people speaking one or several of three main languages: German, French and Italian. The German speakers will usually speak French, but the French speakers will usually refuse to speak German. And the Italian speakers? Well, they're nuts, or at least that's what everyone thinks because no one understands what they're talking about. So guess what language the Swiss Army speaks at the federal level? English.

No one minds this language soup because they're free, because they've been free for nearly three times as long as the US, and because they understand that they need to be able to work together to stay free. To preserve their freedom, they'll even go as far as learning a foreign foreign language - English. If immigrants to America can't at least learn the language of the land to help preserve its freedom and theirs, then send 'em back home.

Regarding your ancestors' roots adding to the richness of the texture of your identity, consider whether you're merely exploiting an artificial narrative to explain yourself to yourself while adding a little ethnic bling to your otherwise plain vanilla American-ness. Take it from a plain vanilla American expat adoptee mutt who doesn't know anything about his ancestors except that most of them must have been caucasoids: You're better off without the narrative. And if you need some bling to distinguish yourself in this multi-culti era, why not ape the WASPs? They seem to be the disfavored ethnic group nowadays.

Different times
Jessica,

I'm like your grandparents, but from a different generation (more or less the generation of your parents). By the time I came to America, things had changed somewhat, I think for the better. I did not feel an urge to "not teach" the language of my ancestors to my children. I still thought that my children should learn English for two reasons: because I wanted them to be successful, and out of respect for their country. I'm proud of my children. They are Americans, proud Americans like you. They, like you, are proud of their family name. Like Americans of Irish, Italian, Polish, German ancestry, they are proud of what they are, and are neither beligerant nor ashamed about it. Pride of family, of ancestry is basic to any human being, and nobody should take it away from them.

But you are right: Your life is here, and you are American. I'm happy that you love it like my children do. I love it too, but I had to learn to love it, it took quite a few years. Many of the people that insult you will, over time, come over to our outlook. They are no longer Mexicans, they just don't know it yet.

If your busy schedule permits, though, learn some Spanish, it will enrich your life if you do it not as a sign of defiance, but as a way to better understand your grandparents and parents that so much did for you.

You forgot
We can go back in history, check many places, and find takeovers. Where are the Aztecs and the Mayans?

Look at what you are doing now. Mexico exports their lower class to the US. Why don't they build this group up instead?

I am a first generation American. I am as happy as anyone could be to be previleged and lucky to have been born and raised here. My parents stressed education and work ethic. I grew up in an old ethnic neighborhood. Gangs were prevelant but only with the Hispanics. Why was that? Is it any different now.

I know many first and second generation Americans with similar stories.

People who want to can succeed here. It is up to them and not some government.

You forget...
That not all Americans speak english, and its not because they are recent emmigrants. How about Puerto Rico? A US commonwealth, whos OFFICIAL language, IS NOT, english, but, Spanish.

And yes, they are full blooded americans and have fought in all modern american conflicts?

Are they not "assimilating" because you said so? even though their country was gained in a war with dubious pretences ( sound similar , no).

How about native americans.. you know.. the guys that we took the land from? are they "un-american" for speaking their native tongue, in their land?

Should i keep on going about the thousands of Mexicans, that were legal Americans yet deported in the 1930's. And they became legal Americans since we annexed ( in another false pretense war ) their land in what is now California?

Hawaiians too? do i need to keep going?

Jessica alba aside ( making the case that you are American by going to college? HAH, my parents are both immigrants, and both proud hispanics.. and guess what.. both doctors ), this is the problem with most conservatives, right wingers. Either they fail to really grasp the issue, or randomly ignore crucial facts

No Useful Idiot, She
I don't keep up on pop culture much and to me the name 'Jessica Alba' is only background noise and I would easily dismiss her as a young Hollywood bimbo.

But having read her remarks I am thoroughly impressed. It must take a truly independent thinker to live in the Hollywood sphere and to speak as she did.

That the Left would previously have assumed to embrace her for her 'Latinoness' and now puts her down shows that the is NOT a Useful Idiot.

Thanks for being an American Jessica!

latino
is used in Dante's Inferno, in spite of what your dictionary.com says. It meant a person from the Lazio (ancient Latium) region in Italy. It's now as useless as the inane Hispanic. Balme the French for Latin America and the government for Hispanic.

Why anybody would adopt proudly the language of their conquerors is beyond me. Just like some blacks with Swahili and muslim dress. Son muy locos. Tutti pazzi.

Carmen is RIGHT ON!
Indeed, we all have differing backgrounds and that is what does make this country so great. But at some point, we have to limit the numbers. To those who say limits are bad, look at all of the other countries that have limitations and stick to them. I am sure that there are a good many countries to which some smart-alec could point that has successfully had open boarders for a time. But I don't know of any country that has allowed unlimited immigration over its borders. And THAT my fellow Americans is WHAT THIS BILL ALLOWS! Chain migration! So not only are we saying, "hey, c'mon in even if you are illegal. And, guess what! We're going to give your family preferences!!!! Yahhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooo!" This bill will bankrupt our nation. If you support this legislation, you do not support its future - plain and simple.

Call me white too!
While working in the emergency room one day(which I did for 30 years), a hispanic man came up to my desk and asked me why I did not speak to him in spanish. I know it was rude, but I couldn't help myself. I said to him very bluntly, "Because this is America and in America we speak English!" He was furious and my response was 'deal with it!' My parents came to this greatest nation on earth in the '50s from South America. My father is from Sicily, mom from Peru. They worked hard to come to America legally and eventually became citizens. They couldn't be prouder. They raised us be Americans, not Italian-American or Hispanic-American. There is no hyphenated b.s. in my family. I never identify as Hispanic or Italian. I have great roots but I am fully, proudly American. The emergency room experience, if you could each visit as I did for all those years, is clearly evidence that huge problems exist that will only exacerbate if we fail to do what's needed. The Saudis are building a 550-mile fence to shut out Iraq. Why is it so difficult in this post 9/11 world to accept the facts on the ground. We are being invaded, there really are people out there who want to kill us, suicide bombers are waiting for their marching orders, and no, we cannot talk them down. What the *bleep* are we waiting for?

Akagi
I get out plenty. I agree with you (in part). Yes, i have seen some English signs in Korea, Japan, China, and Thailand. I know Spanish, French, and a tiny bit of Russian. Putting up a few signs doesn't bother me, or probably most people. But demanding that Americans learn your langauge won't work.

And yes, Jessica (and a lot of Americans) is losing out by not knowing another langauge. But it's her loss. I stand by my earlier points above, that the immigrants who come here and don't learn English are cheating themselves just out of knowing something new, and also out of a lot of money they could have made had they bothered learning English.

more on hyphenated Americans
To quote Woodrow Wilson:

"Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."

TR
To quote Teddy Roosevelt:

"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. ... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, each preserving its separate nationality, ... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else."

Gestell
This has nothing to do with race, though liberals love to introduce race into every issue. Read my post above - it's a simple matter of economics. The people who come here and choose not to learn English are condemning themselves (not me) to a life of menial labor. Have you noticed some immigrants come here, learn English, and are great successes? Some even become the governor of large states. It CAN be done, but there was to be some willingness.

English abroad
JMJ:

You must not get out much. We'll take Taiwan as an example. Many menus especially in four star and five star establishments will have menus in not only Chinese but in English and Japanese. Hotel desk staff must speak not only Chinese and Taiwanese but English and Japanese as well. Street signs are in Chinese as well as romanized for English speakers. So Xinyi Lu San Duan becomes Xinyi Road, Section 3.

Department stores and the like often have signage in English, tax forms, visa forms and the like are in both English and Chinese. And the list goes on and on. In fact, you could (as many foreigners--meaning non-Taiwanese) do could live in Taiwan for years without ever having to learn Chinese or Taiwanese. I have never heard a complaint saying those "f'ing Americans, why don't they learn Chinese."

I have never understood why Americans get so upset over signs in a store in Spanish or Korean, etc. or Push 1 for English.

In a way I think it is sad Alba never learned Spanish. My children will learn Chinese as well as English. Nothing wrong with learning two or even more languages.

Looking to take offense
I think those offended by both Schwarzenegger and Jessica Alba's comments were looking to take offense. Gov. Schwarzenegger was asked the question of how hispanics could improve academically. His response was completely appropriate and honest. It only makes sense that learning English would help them in their academics. If you are trying to take a test in a language you don't understand, you will, inevitably, not be successful. It made absolutely no sense to me why people were calling him naive when such an answer seems like a no-brainer. I would never think I could succeed in Mexican schools without because fairly fluent in the language.

This comment is also coming from a 1st generation immigrant...how can you take offense to that? Wasn't he asked that specific question because of his experience as a successful 1st generation immigrant. It seems to me that he would have the credentials to give such advice...I guess I was wrong.

Jessica Alba is a true American in my book (because she is proud to be one...unlike many in this country). Although my family has been in this country for many generations, I found myself strongly relating to her feelings. She is proud of her heritage but identifies herself as an American. Similarly, I am proud of my European heritage (and love Europe) but I don't consider myself British. Why should she consider herself latina? She was born in America. In simply expressing pride as an American, how is it that she is some how bashing her heritage? ...it just doesn't make sense.

How many ILLEGALS???
How can anyone truly know if there are ONLY 12 MILLION illegal immigrants in our country. We listen to our government get the projected costs of EVERYTHING they propose and it is WRONG! Why do we think that the government's estimate of 12 to 20 million is correct. Some groups believe that it is as much as 24 million illegal immigrants here already. We need to have a rational national debate without charges of racism, race-baiting, and name calling. This immigration bill will bankrupt our nation, plain and simple. I am from a family of immigrants - legal ones. I am also a decendant from Native Americans. Why are people pushing so hard for this legislation????? Who gains? Who loses? In the short term, there will be economic up-tics, sure. In the long-term, it will be a disaster because of our entitlement system that is also broken. But forget about it getting fixed after we pass this legislation. We are going to be inviting 20+ million people into our country that want socialism. They will vote to make it worse in the long run! The supporters of this legislation should be very careful what they are wishing for. It will be their children and their childrens' children who are going to suffer disproportionately. A vote for the AMNESTY bill is a vote against your children!

Reply to Gestell
A lot of roads lead to the right answer, some of them lower than others. Even so, it seems to me that real conservatives can more often be found on the high roads than the low ones. If each kind of road perfectly sets the other off, what does that say about liberals?

Good job Arnold
He hit it right on the head. Here in So Cal, there is no common culture. It's a collection of balkanized tribe that don't mingle and worse, don't even bother to try to assimilate into the US. It's a mess and a major cause of the gang crime here. My grandfather came from Germany and people frequently comment on my name and how to pronounce it, ask where I'm from, etc, to which I respond, "who cares ? I'm an American".

reply to RCB
Well said, although real conservatives won't like you much for being an expatriate (which they think means an "expatriot"). Remember, we're dealing with conservatives here, so of course they turn questions about language into, in your words, "something about race, class or something-or-other struggle." Your concluding sentence says it all.

Kudos to Alba and the govuhnator....
I did a little research, and it really didn't hurt. Much.
Turns out there are plenty of nations out there with official languages.
In France the official language is French.
They have a stricter immigration policy than we enforce here in the states. Yet no one calls them racists over it.
odd.
Spain too has an official language - spanish.
Italy too. It's italian.
England has a de facto official language. Go ahead and guess what that is.
Germany's official language is German.
Cuba's is spanish.
Russia's is Russian.
Polands is polish.
Japan's official language is Japanese.
Hungary has Hungarian.
In the Czech Republic their de facto official language is Czech.
In Slovakia, their offical language is Slovak.

According to wikipedia (i know, I know):
'Most sovereign states have at least one official language, as declared in national constitutions or other legislaion, government websites, embassies, or other official sources. Some have only one official language, such as Albania, France, or Lithuania, despite the fact that in all these countries other indigenous languages are spoken as well. Some nations have more than one official language, such as Afghanistan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Canada, Finland, India, Israel, Malta, New Zealand, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, the Republic of Ireland, South Africa, Singapore, and Switzerland.

A few states, such as Sweden, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States, have no official language, although there may be a single de facto main language (Swedish in Sweden, Japanese in Japan, English in the UK/US), as well as a range of government regulations and practices on which languages are expected to be used in various circumstances.

In some countries, such as China, Iraq, Italy, Philippines, Russia, Serbia and Spain, there is an official language for the country, but other languages are co-official in some important regions.'

So I guess all those countries are racists.
Right?
Not so much.
My grandparents legally immigrated here. My father was born in Germany as his parents and him fled the region to come to America to escape what had been the horrors of the holocaust (and there was and still is remnants of that way of thinking).
My grandparents didn't speak a word of english, and neither did my father.
They immersed themselves in the culture and learned English because they realized that in America, English is the language used by most people. We identify ourselves through language and in the US, that language in English.
The argument that requiring english proficiency is a form of collectivism or racist in nature is absurd.
No one wants people to be ashamed of their culture - in this country, we celebrate cultural differences. But in this country, English is the language.
Jessica Alba is an American. She isn't a latina. She didn't grow up in latin culture, she grew up with American culture. It is offensive that people feel they can judge her for being a proud American.
It is equally offensive that Americans have to make constant concessions to people who don't understand that our language is part of our culture and who make no attempt to assimilate to our nation.
We are a melting pot, which in part defines our culture.
We are not mexican-americans, african-americans, chinese-americans, or alien-americans. You are either an American or you are not. And learning a language doesn't strip you of your ethnicity.
go apply for a job without speaking any english in this country. You will find that your choices are extremely limited.
Instead, let's encourage people to learn english. English is our language, de facto for now. Don't want to learn it? Well, then I submit that you don't really want to be an American at all.
And as a side note, with all the anger being spewed towards the US by Mexico over a border fence, I was surprised to note that they have a fence along their southern border. Crazy, don't you think?
And what happens if you are caught living in Mexico illegally? Well, you are arrested then deported. Quickly. There is no catch and release. They don't care if you have a family. That's tasty hypocrisy, don't you think?
There is no immigration debate as far as I am concerned.
There is only an enforcement problem.
Before we go about talking up ways to provide amnesty to criminals (that's what you are if you violate immigration law), let's prove that we can enforce the laws we have now.
Failure to do so while creating new laws only means that we will have new restrictions that we cannot and will not enforce.
You think rounding up 12-20 million illegal aliens is tough?
Try putting them on a road to amnesty. We can't process legal citizens passport applications. What makes anyone think that we'll be able to process z-visas and amnesty plans?
I am a converted conservative who became a conservative when I grew up and realized that the left was lying to me as well as themselves.
Now our President, who we have (for the most part) stood by is slapping us all in the face and calling us unamerican.
Which means for the first time in years, I understand why liberals hate him so much.
Make English the official language.
Enforce our current immigration laws.
Build the fence that was supposed to be completed already.
THEN we'll discuss the possibility of changing our immigration policy.
Until then, there is no immigration policy and we continue to have open borders.
Mark my words - this will only lead to terror attacks and new waves of illegals.
And the eventual downfall of our nation.



Total immersion
I've lived in Europe for 13 years as an American expatriate. I learned German through total immersion. It remains my best foreign language. I learned Swedish through partial immersion, and it lags behind my German. Now I live in the francophone world, and because my social network consists entirely of English-speaking expatriates, my French remains nascent after almost a year of futzing around with it.

Please, America, get a clue! Arnie couldn't be more right (er ist eigentlich doch sehr erfolgreich geworden, trotz dass er ist ein schiess Oestereicher)! When you manage to take a no-brainer issue like this one and turn it into something about race, class or something-or-other struggle, you only prove your own idiocy!

reply to Marlin Newburn
Absolutely correct, but some additions need to be made. Yes, the ethnic community associations died out in part because of the growth of the American welfare state. Sowell's analysis, which I'm familiar with, looks a lot like that of leftist academic Theda Skocpol, who has written extensively on the disapperance of all sorts of civic organizations in the US.


Another factor in this decline is the demise of the old-fashioned urban political machine, which, in cities like Boston and New York, but also in rural areas (Missouri, for instance) did a lot to provide benefits to people (in exchange for votes).

One more thing. A number of American states had state-level public assistance (welfare) programs that developed without any federal control during the first couple of decades of the 20th century. (This is why it's historically wrong for conservatives to blame liberal "big government" for the American welfare state; states were doing this long before the feds got into the act). The New Deal displaced these state-run systems, which were created by state legislatures responding to their voters.

Assimilation
I am second generation Middle Eastern born in America. My grandparents came to this country as teenagers, legally I might add. My grandparents never taught Arabic to their children. The REASON: They wanted them to be successful. They determined they were Americans and English was the American Language. They wanted their children to do well in school and in life.

All of their children were successful. Four of their sons were successful business men becoming millionaires all and the fifth a successful business man but not quite a millionaire. Their two daughters married well and were successful in their own endeavors.

One daughter during WWII was serving in the Red Cross; and met her professor husband who was in Europe serving in the military. While the other was a successful Executive Secretary for 2 companies and their presidents. Three of my uncles served in the Military during WWII; and my father was in the Naval Reserve during the Korean War.

I have lived a privileged life and am college educated. That is because of my grandparent's decision. SPEAK ENGLISH AND ASSIMILATE.

Gestelle
Regarding your comment on the disappearance of the ethnic fraternal organizations that once helped new immigrants to assimilate, they were eliminated by the appearance of the government welfare system.

Gone was not just the new values taught by those private organizations, i.e., "Sons of Italy", the human contact was also eliminated. Also eliminated was the gratitude for being allowed to come to a new country with endless opportunity.

Thomas Sowell has written about the above phenomenon and skillfully describes the entire process of the inherent dehumanizing that charaterizes government "help". I won't tell you which book he wrote explaining it. Read every contribution from this true scholar and learn.

Great article, Ms. Ham, and a solid "great job" to you, Ms. Alba.

Always expect the heat from the left, Ms. Alba. Truth telling trips a lot of emotional triggers of those who wish to divide, demand and destroy. They live to control their potential serfs by emotion as opposed teaching them character, gratitude, values, logic and reason.

You might want to contact Dr. Thomas Sowell or economist Dr. Walter Williams regarding the leftist tactic of character destruction. They have been physically threatened and verbally ripped apart on a regular basis by the toxic tribalists in the Black community, but they walk tall in spite of it. They are both Black men and heroic in their work.




Stang200s6:
Actually, if you go into a hospital, you are required to be helped in your native tongue if you so wish.

You can thank Bubba Clinton for that one. It's now your "civil right" to be catered to in whatever language you want at hospitals... even if you want to be helped in some lost jungle dialect from the Amazon, you can sue if they don't accomadate you, so the hospitals have to pay to keep an outside translator service on tap.

Just another of the "little costs" that make our healthcare so expensive.

Gestell - Not Collectivism... But Unison
Yes, this post is long – I also hosted it on my blog to make it easier on the eyes while reading. Just click on my name.

Gestell, Conservatives aren't trying to be collectivist and suppress individual expression. I'm a Conservative and I have a strong Italian heritage. Bear with me here - During the last World Cup tournament I was rooting for Italy, and I wanted to go to the North End in Boston the day of the championship game badly, but couldn't because of work. The night of the championship game, after it was over, I went over to the house of a friend of mine with French heritage. She was rooting for France. I had my blue Italian soccer t-shirt on, and she happened to be wearing a French one herself. After gloating that Italy had won, and laughing remembering the insane head butt the French team captain, Zidane, gave one Italian soccer player, we both started talking about how the American team did so well despite this not being a "soccer nation." We both were looking forward to the next World Cup tourney, because we knew America had a better chance to win than ever before. We would have been even more proud to see the American's win than the French or Italians, just as we Americans were very proud to see the U.S women's soccer team win the ’96 Olympics.

The point is we can all cling on to our heritage, but being American is more special, because it unites us all as one overall people. Here, French and Italian, South-Irish and North-Irish, Germans and Russians, and Africans and Europeans (etcetera) are the same people, and none of them save an ignorant few consider another American of a different ethnicity much different at all because we are all American and we can all communicate with each other using one common language.

Many Irish-Americans are often walking around the streets of Boston wearing Notre Dame "Fighting Irish" paraphernalia and green Red Sox jerseys... and I'm sure almost 100% of those Irish-blooded men and women would rather see America win than Ireland in any Olympic sport. Italian-Americans rather live here and speak primarily English than speak primarily Italian and live in Italy. The bond between Americans that speak the same language is so great that we see people of one ethnicity donning the colors and eating the food of another. How many non-Irishmen do you see wearing green on St. Patrick’s Day? How many Americans do you know who aren’t Asian but gleefully indulge in Asian foods?

The issue is... these illegal immigrants, and some legal Spanish-speaking immigrants do not merely cling to their heritage; they reject American culture and want to impose their own. Now, I'm fine with the Mexican flags waving during their protests and rallies, I've seen plenty of Irish ones waving in St. Patrick’s Day parades and Italian ones are all over the place in the North End in Boston. But, Italians don't watch Italian TV. My forefathers didn't (although it is notable that they did not have the option to when they arrived here), and Italians and other non-English speaking ethnicities didn't really want “bilingual” education in the American public school system. My European forefathers came here legally. They filled out the forms and whatnot, found a sponsor, got on a boat, and came here. They did not go to Mexico, cross the boarder into America, lay-low, get illegally hired, steal SS numbers (or make them up), and have "anchor babies."

Mexican's are free to come here just as immigrants from Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, the Middle East, and Oceania have for a few hundred years. They are free to speak Spanish, although it would be in their best interest to have a strong command of the English language also, so that they can not only assimilate with the rest of American society, but benefit better from it. We who speak English can also benefit from them if they learn English, since we can communicate better. Since English is so ingrained in our culture, it is impossible to make us all learn Spanish, but we know immigrants can all learn English, barring perhaps learning disabilities. If the USA was historically a Swahili speaking nation I’d say Spanish immigrants should learn Swahili and try to assimilate into the Swahili-speaking nation they want to make a living in.

We Conservatives would love to see little “Mexicotowns” like the Chinese, Italian, and other ones we have, but we don’t want to see “little Mexico’s” in America, which is what we are getting when some Mexican’s come here, watch the dozens of Spanish channels available on Direct TV, and don’t teach their children English because vote-mongering Republican and Democrat politicians enforce” bilingual” education, something the children of immigrants in the past never needed despite facing the same hardships that the children of immigrants do today. We hope someday that Mexican immigrants would all come here legally as many Mexican’s already do, learn English and identify themselves not with their own ethnicity, but with their country -the USA – and to be American first, and remember and honor their great Latino heritage in a respectful, non-exclusionist way that makes America even stronger, as the immigrants to America in the past did.

Shalom, for sure
ShalomYisrael, you need to get some peace, yourself. Your two posts show precisely the kind of ranting and name-calling that make conservatives so loathed by liberals. Consider. You indulge in an outpouring of generic conserivative anti-liberal rants that completely miss their target. Nothing in my posts romanticizes anybody, let along the "Other." Nothing, either in my blog, or in any post I've ever made on TH contains "self-loathing," let alone any effort to impose this on anyone else.

Also, I don't why you bring me in to your post on the Roman Empire. What do I, or liberals, have to do with that? I didn't compare the US to the Empire, nor, in fact, do I think that comparisons like that are especially useful.

I'm pro-Israeli. Go to my blog and read my piece on "Understanding Islam." If you can believe that I live down to your ridiculous sterotypes of academic liberals after reading that, then I'm write in concluding as follows:

In short, you either haven't read, or don't care to read, anything I write. You simply react, Pavlov-like, to that hated word "liberal."

As for status and titles, I put mine in in the interest of full disclosure.

So, good luck in your effort to bring your wife to the States. Here you can be just as intolerant and uninformed as you want to be, and you're already off to a great start!


assimilation
There's no sense in being ashamed of where you came from. we Americans are pretty much all immigrants. I'm glad other people bring parts of their cultures with them.

But strictly from a view of self-interest, compare the outcomes of those who come here and learn English, and those who don't learn it. The former are computer engineers, graduate high in their classes, and do well. One is the governor of California. But look at immigrants who have no English skills? Are they getting high-paying jobs and living in nice neighborhoods?

Go to France without knowing French (well, if you know German I guess you can talk to the people over 70). Or try to live in Japan but don't speak Japanese. It doesn't work well in those countries, and it won't work well here.

Hard cases and Illegals make it harder
I have made it clear that I am living in China and I have been for the last three years. In that time I fell in love with a wonderful woman who gives me all the happiness I can stand. She is my wife. She is not my Chinese wife, but my wife who happens to be Chinese. She wants to come to America to be with me. We want to have American kids that play baseball and know how to grow vegetables. We want to have barbeques in the backyard and teach our kids how to be good people. They'll know that their Mother is Chinese, of course they will and I don't want them to be ashamed of that. I want them to know they belong in this society. I worry that when we finally come back after WAITING IN CHINA TO LEGALLY GET A VISA, that there will be an anti immigration backlash because of all the illegals and the hard cases that take everything that America has to offer and give it nothing in return. Will we eat Chinese food, of course we will, will my wife teach them Chinese, maybe, I don't know. I plan on teaching them Hebrew. But they will be Americans with American values and an American sense of identity? Yes, most certainly. Having another language is a rich addition to the treasure of knowledge, but your native language should not be a stubborn hang on that you wave defiantly at the nation you ran to.

On assimilation
Alba and Pacino didn't say anything wrong, but there is something sad in the fact that Alba's grandfater felt the need to try to forget his roots. I remember growing up that my grandfather still got his yiddish newspaper, and like most first gneration jewish immigrants of the time, he lived his whole life in a jewish immigrant neighborhood. My parents moved out of that neighborhood, and I don't speak any yiddish beyond the few words you don't have to be jewish to know, but I benefited from growing up in a home that was proud of its heritage.

As Kuwull notes, around the same time my grandparents were living in a neighborhood where yiddish was common in other neighborhoods immigrants spoke german at home. And we aall know what problems we have with german-americans refusing to assimilate. Where I live now I hear Russian spoken in the streets. In my last home it was Polish. A few moves before that it was Spanish. But each group will have children who speak more English because that is where the money is in this country. That is how it has always been. And since the founding of the country there have been people claiming that the newest immigrants won't assimilate because they still speak their langauge at home.

Gestell, quite the dim academic
Liberal academics love to compare America to the Roman Empire, so in that spirit lets talk about Rome. What was one of the main reasons that the Western Roman Empire fell? Well, I'll tell you in the spirit of being an Academic who has to educate you dim plebians. It fell because of vast tracts of it's empire were taken over by unassimilated Germanic tribes. Does the name Alaric ring a bell? The Romans just kept on trying to buy off the Germans. They even made them generals and Dukes [Dux]. But that didn't work. What a surpise. At the fall of the Empire less than five percent of the Army was of native born Italian citizenry. It was a mercenary army of Germans who saw absolutely no reason to fight out of loyalty to Rome; especially against their tribal brothers. Loyalty was the thing that was lacking in the Roman Empire and that lack was a definite factor that brought down it's western half. So assimulation is not just a matter of choice [as you so ineloquently put it], it is a matter of national survival. Compromise brings you national extinction.

Israel is still a nation and a people because of it's unwillingness to compromise and be tolerant. People of the nations who attached themselves to Israel had to give their full devotion and love to the Nation. Remember Ruth, "Your people shall be my people and your God shall by my God." Caleb was a Kenezzite, Urriah was a Hittite, Obadiah was an Edomite, and Ruth...Who could forget Ruth, the Grandmother of King David was a Moabite. They gave their love love and devotion to Israel, and I am pretty sure they spoke Hebrew.

You should not be ashamed
of where you came from, but you should be proud of where you are and what you are. Once you come here and are a citizen you are an AMERICAN. Learning english should be required. English should be the official language. If you wish to keep your heritage and speak other languages more power to you. If you choose to speek Russian and French because you're father's family is Russian and your mother's is French no one has ever said they have a problem with that as long as you speak english.

Don't go into a hospital and try to get a translator. Don't go into a restaraunt and hope someone speaks your native tongue. When I was a kid and I had people come into the fast food joints or restaurants I worked in and the grandparent spoke in a foreign language and the grandkid was translating I understood that to an extint, depending on when they arrived or if they were just here on vacation visiting, etc. However, once you are a citizen of the United States you NEED to speak at least conversational english.

I don't think anyone expects perfect english out of immigrants. Arnold to this day has a heavy accent, however, he can hold an intelligent (debatable, I know) conversation in english. That is all most people ask. When you go into a job interview and you get asked basic questions about work history, experience, etc be able to explain yourself in english. It might be a bit rough on both parties to understand, however, as long as the ability to communicate is there then the individual will improve as time goes on and he's working around english speakers and watching english television, etc.

No sensable person is asking anyone to give up their heritage, simply to embrace their present and future.

Gestell
Gestell...a liberal and an Academic...who wudda thunk....Why is it that liberals are so intoxicated with titles and classifications? Aren't they the ones who advocate a classless raceless Marxist Utopia all the time? Get a clue Gestell, most Americans can't stand Academics. We can't stand elitist limosine liberals. We have no stomach for most of the tenured at our elite universities. When will you Chomskyites get a clue about the American Republic? Oh, You love to be in America and drink your Starbucks latte grandes and use your lecturns as pulpits for America bashing...Well, why don't you go try that in the "other" that you are constantly romanticizing? Why don't you come to China and try that. I should know because I live in China. I was reprimanded for giving a basic world religion lecture at my University. It's nice not to go to prison because of your ideals, isn't it? Maybe that would lead you to have the right ideas.

You make your money, you buy your nice houses, you scan your IKEA catologues for the dining set that defines you as a person, yet you hate what you are, and you hate that you betray your ideals for the good life. Does Al Gore and John Edwards ring a bell? Was Ted Turner willing to give up his million acres for his grand land redistribution ideal? If you hate yourself don't force that self loathing on us. We have no time for it. We have no time for academics that are academic just for the sake of wearing nerdy glasses and calling themselves academics.
Go write a book or something.

American Cultural Superiority
Yes, be ashamed of where you came from, they're losers, or you, your parents or grandparents wouldn't have come to a foreign shore to begin anew.

My grandparents came from Europe, both refused to speak their native languages and brought their children up to be Americans (who speak ENGLISH). They refused to speak German to their children and grandchildren.

I happened to be born in Canada while my Dad was stationed there. I'm an American, not German nor a Scot, not English, nor French. I'm proud my ancestors had the gumption to come here, and looking at the countries where I still have cousins... well, they're lost socialist countries with culture that are surrendering to turd world invasions and are afraid of themselves.

No I see no reason to be proud of European ancestry. One can be a US Citizen (a legal fact) and be a virulent anti-American (American being a love in the HEART)... we see it every day. Phooey on anti-Americans.

doctorfixit
I can attest to your point about blacks being in the crosshairs of the illegal Mexican gangs in LA. Not far from where I live, Highland Park, the 18th gang has declared war on blacks in an effort to drive them out. Here in Pasadena, most of the gang violence is Mexican on black. People need to open their eyes and not be afraid to see what they see. Denying it doesn't change the reality. It is why people are getting armed to the teeth out here. The government is a major part of the problem even to the point of marching in the streets to protest their own police (Mayor Pancho Villaraigossa).

The thing that gets me...
... is that Schwarzenegger is talking from experience. He came to America speaking hardly a word of English. He knows what works in mastering a new language in a new country. That he is an incredible American success story, no matter what you think of him personally or politically, is beyond question for everyone with a measurable IQ.
How do you work up the chutzpah to dismiss what he has done and what he says about language acquisition & assimilation?

Hypocrite?
Gestell writes: Tuesday, June, 19, 2007 10:39 AM

"Do we have to be collectivists?"

And after this, he "collects" all conservatives and liberals into groups to make his pontifications. Notice his sop to the liberal side (not all...) that's missing from the conservative side.


We are a collection of tribes.
America is a collection of tribes. Pick your ethnic loyalties, or you will be assigned one - by the Federal Government, no less. This is official government policy - you cannot claim neutrality, or "American-ness". It's all about retribution, reparations, paybacks. For the last 30+ years European American males have been the designated evildoers who owe reparations to every victim class as designated by the government. This explains why the marxists are so eager to import millions of people who despise the gringo. It's all about cultural genocide. But the unintended consequence is that the invading Mexicans being imported by the marxists also have a visceral hatred for blacks. European-Americans will be able to avoid much of the hate crime and gang revenge that will be coming down, blacks not so much. Just go to LA and see what is happening to blacks. All of this was planned.

Gestell:
For the most part, I believe the conservative argument for leaving one's culture at the doorstep has to do with the fact that they are supposed to be part of America and if they don't feel that way, they shouldn't be here.

Yes, that sounds mean, but you must remember that when people come here from, say, Mexico, it is because Mexico is corrupt and they can't get decent pay there. This corruption is part of the Mexican culture, whether you want to admit it or not.

I know it sounds simplistic to say that if Mexico were so great, nobody would be running across the border into the USA. It's simplistic yet true. Sure, there are other reasons, but when it comes down to it, they are fleeing a failed state. A state that is a failure because of their culture.

My mother is an immigrant to the USA. She doesn't live in a barrio with a bunch of isolated people that speak another language. If she wanted to live in familiar surroundings, she would go back to where she came from. But she doesn't.

And while other "immigrants" fly the flag of their home country outside their home or stick it to their car, my mother was fit to be tied when my little brother had the flag of her former home tattooed on his arm.

Different values, I guess. Or maybe just lower IQ's.

Multi-culturism
If these cultures are so wonderful why are they breaking the laws to get here illegally. I am a first generation american but am the product of parents from two different parts of Europe. My family came for the opportunity to find success in this land of plenty. Once here they adopted everything american. Only english was spoken and we were told we were americans. My family essentially turned their backs on the culture they grew up in. I never once heard any regrets they forgot their roots. I have neither the curiosity or desire to trace my ancestry. I am proud that I am an american. Yet these illegals tyhink that importing their broken culture is how they wish to be identified. Having been south of the border on several vacations I have no desire to return to that toilet they call home. Perhaps if these illegals put the same effort into reforming their place of birth that they expend to break our laws and reap our benefits perhaps their countries would resemble a place to live rather than the toilet they are. Call me a nativist but the priviledge of living in America must be earned. That includes speaking our language, paying our taxes, obeying our laws and after coming here legally earning citizenship. Demanding rights and priviledges not earned won't win friends but rather only allow you to join with the other victim groups who take but don't contribute to ,the betterment of our society

I'm American, too
My parents came here from India. I was recently called a coconut (first time!) by an Indian guy who barely knows me, because I stated that certain values - getting an education, waiting until you're married to have a baby, working hard, speaking English - lead to success, while other values do not.

Why would anyone want to be a failure? Speaking English badly or with an really hard to understand accent is not going to get you ahead in this country. (Speaking with a slight accent can be charming, though.)

Anyway, my parents came over from India, I grew up here, I speak English as my first language, I'm an American. Of course I am proud of my heritage, but that is not relevent in terms of getting ahead in this society.

There is a large group in Argentina of German descent - they don't consider themselves Germans, they are Argentinians. If I immigrated to Mexico, after a couple of generations, I would hope my kids would identify themselves as Mexicans and be assimilated there. If we as human beings really are all equal, then why is clinging to a particular racial or ethnic or national identity considered somehow virtuous, while assimilating with and getting along with your neighbors is considered bad?

Good Job mary Katharine
Over the weekend we still had goobers posting on here that maintained the Mexicans were assimilating just as well as previous immigrants.

The information I have seen is that past immigrants assimilated within one generation while the average for this group is four.

Alba's and Arnold's assimilation
I just re-registered to vote-was Republican but changed to Independant because the party has lost its way so badly-and I had to select my race. Why? Better yet why not put American as a category? I don't think Miss Alba said anything wrong nor did Arnold. This is America and here we speak English and, especially if we are legal citizens who can vote, we are all American's first.

The language of any country is one of a very limited number of things that define and make unique any nation. Without these few things, among them Language, BORDERS, and traditions, a nation does not exist. It becomes no more than a geographic location of no value or conseqeunce beyond a mention on a map.

America is a nation that has enormously important traditions. These traditions have greatly benefited the entire world-not just America. It is sad that those very same traditions are a source of discontent on the part of other nations who have benefited. Those traditions could not exist if we had no borders nor a common language. Those coming here seeking to only take but not assimilate did not come here to make our nation stronger or greater. They come only to take while cleaving to values and traditions which, while wonderful to retain and pass on to future generations, must be blended with those existing here. All nations with the possible exception of America do these things. They jealously guard their language, borders and traditions. While Mexico is not the only nation with illegals coming here they are the only one that quite apparently encourages it and has the gall to criticize our attempts to stem such immigration. Try sneaking into Mexico though-or better yet once legally there try to own property or run for public office-aint' no way.

Arnold and Miss Alba's grandparents have it absolutely right. If you want to come here and stay here then learn the language, learn the traditions and live the traditions. If you want to live in Austria or Mexico please go back there and no hard feelings. Just don't expect America to become Austria or Mexico just because you came here.


Gestell: Really?
Do we have to be collectivists?
One of the thing that annoys me, as a liberal academic and lifelong Democrat, in a bluer than blue state, is that the assimilationist/anti-assimilationist debate is conducted in collectivist terms. By this I mean that almost aeveryone who gets into this discussion seems to think that the choices are that all immigrants should asimilate by ignoring their first language (or the language of parents/grandparents, etc.) or that immigrants use their first language as their primary language.

+ Really? Ironic statements given the fact that you’re apparently a tenured academic in a “soft science” academic department comprised of otherwise unemployable fellow neo-Marxists, purveyors of “mental masturbation” & other professional students of historical/cultural revisionism in a university in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts. Is there actually any heterogeneity of opinion in your immediate universe? Not likely. According to your weblog, anyone slightly to right of Stalin is a right-wing nut. How original. John S. Mill would be so proud. You are not “liberal” in either thought or action. You are a full time neo-Marxist and part time female-chauvinist who thinks her particular ideology imbues her with an esoteric insight on all matters pertaining to the reality in general and the human condition in particular. If the rest of us were intelligent enough to appreciate the subtle beauty of social engineering (gender/racial quotas, wealth-redistribution, etc.) we would of course be leftists as well. Hence, because we don't agree with the dominant leftist-paradigm we must be stupid.

That being said, I think that you are perceiving reality in "Black & white” terms vice , various “shades of gray” that you fashionable leftists bloviate about ad nauseam. What is being discussed is the fact that “ENGLISH” is the language of success/education/commerce in the US, and an immigrant is doing themselves a disservice by not learning “ENGLISH.” My in laws are Eastern-European, have escaped Soviet occupation. They speak 3 languages; however, ENGLISH is their first and foremost language.

Why can't an interest in, even a strong identification with, one's "original" culture, language, and the like be an individual matter?

+No one is denying anyone’s right to have a “strong identification” with their own ethnicity, but “public” (i.e., taxpayer-funded government) business should be conducted in ENGLISH without some associated PC-centric, SPANISH translation. If a SPANISH translation is offered, why not Estonian, Latvian, etc? Why not a 100 other languages? Do you see a slippery slope? Additionally, I as A TAXPAYER should not be funding, directly or indirectly, Hispano-centric lobbyist/apologist “charitable” Corporations, i.e., the “National Hispanic Media Coalition" cited in the article.

I think conservatives really want immigrants to be ashamed of their first language, original culture, and more, and regard such shame and disavowal as part of becoming "American." Multicultural liberals (and not all liberals are multiculturalists) seem to want a society in which people spend their entire lives in their ethnolinguistic enclaves, grooving on their own cultural traditions. Neither position is, in my view, ultimately defensible.

+Thank you for revealing your apparent super-human ability to look into the hearts & minds of men. For you next trick, do you plan on jumping buildings in a single bound? Philosophical Conservatives believe that three things that convey national identity: Borders, Language & Culture. Currently the US is experiencing an “invasion” of mostly Mexican-nationals who respect none of these three concepts. Ironically, when in Mexico, foreign nationals are expected to speak Spanish. Foreign nationals in Mexico are not entitled to any of the rights, privileges & social services that illegal-immigrant Mexicans enjoy in this country. I quite frankly resent the overt “nationalism” and associated entitlement mentality of a group of 3rd-world escapees.

Do conservatives really want the nation's Chinatowns to stop looking Chinese and start looking like Main Street in Grand Island, Nebraska? Do multicultural liberals really want American cities to be chopped up in the manner of Beirut?

+ Hardly. Philosophical conservatives just don’t want another entitlement-minded group of “hyphenated-Americans” established who will demand the same entitlements as other government-sanctioned “victim groups”: Female- chauvinists, African-Americans, etc. You can celebrate multiculturalism all you want, but leave my wallet alone: 41% of all lawful immigrant, high-school drop-out households are enjoying some kind of public assistance. I also have enough issues dealing with the current form of “institutional racism/sexism”: affirmative action.

Can't we leave the relationship an American chooses to have or not to have to another language and culture an individual affair?

+They, the “multi-culturalists”, consistently make this issue a “public” vice “private” affair. They also take a decidedly post-modern, Neo-Marxist, selective view of history (i.e., Western culture=bad/ other cultures=good) when conveying the “strengths” of various cultures. It’s called “moral equivalence”, a decidedly neo-Marxist construct.

an addition
I just remembered the "Knights of the Mystic Sea," the mythical black organization in the old "Amos and Andy" show. Even in the often racist and very broad comedy of that old show, the organization clearly had a positive role to play. Blacks in business could associate with other blacks in business, so there was an economic as well as a purely social aspect. Again, most American towns and cities of any size had lots of such organizations in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It's also worth noting the generally positive role played in the black community by traditionally black churches.

Assimilation
I agree with virtually everything Gestell said at 12:17. However, it is the left that is obsessed with identity politics, not the right, and particularly not libertarians. Many Texans sre very aware that many Mexicans (they called themselves Tejanos) fought on the Texan side in 1836 to preserve the rights of all Texans under the Mexican constitution of 1824. There would not be an Alamo today for us to visit if it had not been for DeZavala's granddaughter Adina in the early 1900's.

That said, any country can absorb only so many immigrants each year without losing its identity. The United States has been at that level for many years. The present immigration reform act will push us right over the edge. It is clear to me that the 21st century will see Europe as a giant suburb of Baghdad, and the US as a suburb of Mexico City. I don't care what color the US is, what I object to is the extension of governance of the oldest socialist country in the western hemisphere over what was the United States. western hisphere

Hold on a sec, here
Why is being "American" any different than being "Mexican"?

An American can be of varied ethnic backgrounds, but should self-identify as "American".

Using Liberal logic, "Mexicans" should actually self-identify not as "Mexicans", but as Aztec-Mexicans, or Spanish-Mexicans, or Apache-Mexicans, or some such nonsense. Why the different standard? Why is being an "American" the only nationality that needs some kind of qualifier? What are they ashamed of?

We should always bear in mind Teddy Roosevelt's caution against hyphenating Americanism. It's an extraordinary threat to the cohesiveness of our society and culture.

replies to OzzWorx and Bucko
First, thanks OzzWorx. Genereally I won't rant and call names unless that's the only way the people I'm replying to can express themselves.

One of the things that has changed for the worse in this country is the virtual disappearnce of the local ethnic-based associations that facilitated the integration of new immigrants into the community. Most large cities had their Italian-American groups or the Polish Falcon Hall, or other such groups. Such organizations encouraged their members to participate in their communities.

For Bucko: The kind of leadership you're talking about can be found across the board in American society. It exists on the Right, with various Christian conservative groups and leaders, as well as on the Left. In my field, political science, we call these people "political entrepreneurs" because, like the entrepreneur in business, they initiate and bear the start-up costs, so to speak, of an organization. This can be done among almost any group of people, with almost any conceivable agenda. Wehther the results truly benefit the members of the group thus mobilized is another matter.

The Wrong Question
The idea that conservatives "want immigrants to be ashamed of their first language, original culture, and more" is absurd. What conservatives, and ultimately a majority of the American people, find offensive is the stark indignation at the very suggestion of encouraging immigrants to assimilate into American culture.

Nobody is asking people to deny their heritage - nowhere will you find evidence that conservatives, or the American people in general, want immigrants to forget who they are and where they came from, or that Americans want to whitewash Chinatowns. Part of the genius of our country is the celebration of our differences. The crux of the matter is whether or not immigrants feel compelled to embrace American culture. Many do not, and whether or not segments of our society want to accept it, this is a problem.

Why do liberals and activists find the idea of assimilation into our culture so offensive? I happened to be in LA for work a year ago when the mass demonstration was staged. My friend lived two blocks from Macarthur Park - I saw with my own eyes the utter lack of interest in becoming "American." Americans are and should be offended by that. When activists criticize people like Alba they are losing the hearts and minds of the American people.

1st generation conservative
As a 1st generation American (my father immigrated here from China) and as a conservative I'm happy to answer Gestell. No, I am not ashamed of my heritage, but I'm damn proud to be an American. I'm not a "Chinese-American", I'm an AMERICAN who happens to have Chinese ancestry. Period. And I find that it is liberals who prefer to pigeon hole peoples into collectives and to then treat them according to stereotype. But then bash the bejesus out of them if they DON'T maintain their stereotype. Look at the comments quoted about Jessica Alba. Look at the things said about ANY black conservative. Are those comments being made by conservatives?

Oh! By the way, I don't fit the stereotype. I was a lousy student and pretty much dropped out in 10th grade. I also voluntarily joined the Marines. Which I credit for helping me turn my life around and changing me from a complainer who life just happened to, into someone who takes charge of their life and works to make it the life that they want.

and by the way
When you go to any other country in the world, you need to know their language or else you're up a creek without a paddle... There's no accomodating other languages so why do people have to blast the US for making it's people know the english language? If you don't like it go back where you came from....

How Long?
How many generations does it take to be recognized as an American? I for one am first generation American, born in Miami. I know what it's like to feel like your not American and not Cuban. For many years I struggled with that identity. But for me, I would give my life for this wonderful and generous country, so in essence that would make me an American.
My children are American and it's funny how even they are not itdentified as true Americans, and yet this is all they know. I can't stand it when I'm lumped in with are you "White" or "Hispanic". White is the color of your skin, you can be a black hispanic, asian hispanic, or white hispanic. How ridiculous is that....
I speak the language my kids speak a little but understand it. In retrospect, it's great to know two and three languages, but I'm still American...

Gestell
Let me also thank you for making a rational argument for you viewpoint. We need more of that here, from all sides.

Now let me address some of your concerns:

" By this I mean that almost aeveryone who gets into this discussion seems to think that the choices are that all immigrants should asimilate by ignoring their first language (or the language of parents/grandparents, etc.) or that immigrants use their first language as their primary language."

I think that you, like many other people, misunderstand what assimilation means. Assimilation doesn't mean you throw away your native lanaguage and every single tradition you grew up in your native land. It means that you at least make an effort to adapt to our culture. Most of us don't care if you speak your native langauge at home or with others in your community. We only care when you force US to learn your langauge or adopt your ways when we deal with you.

Examples of the kinds of behavior we object to are:
1) Demanding that voting materials be printed in your native language
2) Demanding that drivers license exams be conducted in your native language. How do you expect to be able to drive on our highways when you can't even read street signs because you haven't learned English? How will you handle being stopped by a police officer when you can't communicate with the officer?
3) Demanding that public schools educate your children in their native langauge, rather than having the school teach your children English first so they can learn in English.

"I think conservatives really want immigrants to be ashamed of their first language, original culture, and more, and regard such shame and disavowal as part of becoming 'American'."

No. Bring your traditions with you, but be willing to learn our traditions. Many recent immigrants seem to have a rather condescending, if not hostile, attitude towards American culture. We want immigrants to understand that we didn't become the successful nation we are by accident. Over the years, we have developed ideals and values that we believe are the best way to a successful, fulfilling life. We resent people who denegrate our way of life when they are not even trying to learn about the principles behind our way of life

The kind of society I want is one in which we can learn from each other. Let us learn from each other. America has always been willing to adopt good ideas from other cultures.

One more reason
to like Jessica Alba!

extreme multiculturalism
As an academic, I work in a professional environment in which some (not all) faculty are what I'll call here "extreme multiculturalists." By this label I mean the position according to which the most overwhelming and important thing about any person is his or her race, ethnicity, original language, or cultural background--or some mixture of all of these. This assumption is simply one version of "identity politics," which is the belief that there is some single attribute that constitutes the fundamental identity of a person and thus should be the sole factor shaping the political views and actions of that person.

I think very few blacks, Italians, Latinos, or (fill in your own group) want to be reduced to such an attribute by their fellow citizens.

Gestell's "educated" opinion
Gestell, conservatives only believe that English is one binding element in the Americanization of immigrants to this country. Another might be the desire to be an American, not a hyphenated American who comes here for financial reasons only.

My grandparents came here from Poland, had to start their own business as a way to make a living and would have had to learn English in any case as no one was willing to cater to them as a repressed minority. They were grateful and proud to be Americans and tried to fit in to their new country. They weren't ashamed to be Polish but, in time, Poland was only the country of their birth. They were now Americans.

Liberals seem to like committees, groups, marches, but you don't seem to be careful about who is in the group with you, who marches with you, who is actually benefitting from your efforts to make this a better world, or, better yet, to help you feel good about trying to make this a better world.


Gestell
I am heartened to hear a liberal intelligently discuss an issue rather than ranting and name calling. Do not look on us as wanting people to divorce themselves from their heritage. We just want them to participate as Americans. The current crop of illegal invaders make the neighborhoods they move into unlivable and still demand rights even I can't get. I had to move out of one invaded neighborhood because they do not respect their neighbors or folow the laws. Do we just keep moving or do they learn to behave?

Mexico and everything about it SUUUUUCKS
I live on the border.

While complaining about how Latinos don't care about time, and the only place our friends from the south are in a hurry to get to is in your way, my black/puerto rican friend called me "racist." I told him that it was racist to assume all Latinos were of one race, let alone not white. He then told me I'm suspect b/c I'm white. That to me was racist, so I changed the subject, though he didn't know there are plenty of white Mexicans.

That is the whole problem: Mexico's class and race based society sucks so bad that they are content to export their poor to us. The fact that the ones who come here want to retain their "Mexicanness" is a mystery to me.

It's an unclean, corrupt, broken society. When you walk across our international bridge, you are punched in the face with the odor of rotting garbage and soiled diapers thrown into the rio grande. The cops are corrupt. The people steal water and ELECTRICITY so much that it's so unreliable that it's not even worth paying for. MEXICO SUCKS. Forget it and embrace America. And oh yeah learn English and pay taxes.

Gestell & Collectivists
..."Do conservatives really want the nation's Chinatowns to stop looking Chinese..?"
or:
"...Do multicultural liberals really want American cities to be chopped up...?"

I don't think so, Gestell. What I do think is that there a lot of people depending upon a paycheck or are making a very good living in arguing these issues under the ruse of a 501(3)(c) "charitable" corporation. There is money to be made in advocacy and agitation. It's really nothing but a form of lobbying with the real client being the lobbyist themselves. Example from the article:

"Alex Nogales, president and chief executive of the National Hispanic Media Coalition."

Nogales makes an excellent salary, as do others in such positions. For him become reasonable(?) is to lay himself off.

The IRS code needs to be reformed so the term, "Charitable Organization" means just that and not some form of legal hustle.

Miss Jessica pretty much summed it up
The young lady's absolutely correct in her opinion. How can she be a sellout for something she never was. She is not Mexican, she doesn't speak Mexican, so how can she be a sellout? Yes she is of Mexican heritage, but that's it.
It bothers me that when Mexicans come into the United States for a better life than what they had in Mexico, and a person would think they would want to leave that part of their miserable life's in Mexico and espouse a new life with its rewards for hard work. But the majority of Mexicans who come into the U.S. want to keep being miserable and work hard to turn their new life and surroundings into a mirrored copy of the miserable life they left. Go figure.

well
The comments from the left are not surprising, but it is sure nice to see a few in the Hollywood stratosphere say something sensible for a change.

Hyphenated Americanism is killing this country. Even worse are those who consider themselves Mexicans, Muslims, or whatever who just happen to live here, with no pretense of even being or wanting to be Americans. All of our victimology and quota systems do nothing but encourage this mentality and further degrade our nation.

Until we abolish all categories except for ABILITY when classifying our fellow Americans, this garbage will never stop and our wonderful country will continue its fracturing. Martin Luther King Jr had it right when he wished for a time when people would be judged by the content of their character. Sadly we seem farther away from that now.

Do we have to be collectivists?
One of the thing that annoys me, as a liberal academic and lifelong Democrat, in a bluer than blue state, is that the assimilationist/anti-assimilationist debate is conducted in collectivist terms. By this I mean that almost aeveryone who gets into this discussion seems to think that the choices are that all immigrants should asimilate by ignoring their first language (or the language of parents/grandparents, etc.) or that immigrants use their first language as their primary language.

Why can't an interest in, even a strong identification with, one's "original" culture, language, and the like be an individual matter?

I think conservatives really want immigrants to be ashamed of their first language, original culture, and more, and regard such shame and disavowal as part of becoming "American." Multicultural liberals (and not all liberals are multiculturalists) seem to want a society in which people spend their entire lives in their ethnolinguistic enclaves, grooving on their own cultural traditions. Neither position is, in my view, ultimately defensible.

Do conservatives really want the nation's Chinatowns to stop looking Chinese and start looking like Main Street in Grand Island, Nebraska? Do multicultural liberals really want American cities to be chopped up in the manner of Beirut?

Can't we leave the relationship an American chooses to have or not to have to another language and culture an individual affair?
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.