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Thursday, February 01, 2007
David Strom :: Townhall.com Columnist
Some People Seem to Know Everything, But Can’t Answer the Most Basic Questions
by David Strom
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Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



Have you ever noticed that the people who seem to be most certain about things are often really quite ignorant?

It’s a version of “don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!”

That’s what we are seeing before our eyes in the debate about anthropogenic (man-made) climate change. An unholy alliance of some scientists, celebrities, government and non-profit bureaucrats, and politicians have joined together to force massive changes to our economy and our lives based upon an intellectual framework as rickety as an old abandoned barn.

We are hearing some of the most astounding claims (we have only 10 years to save the planet!), seeing some of the silliest behavior (Prince Charles cancels a ski vacation to “save the planet”), being subjected to some of the most dreary lectures and warnings (sea levels will rise, crop yields will fall, and human civilization has only a 50-50 chance of survival over the next 100 years!), all based upon some shaky computer models and wild predictions.

It’s not that surprising that politicians have jumped on this bandwagon. After all, they are exquisitely attuned to the cultural zeitgeist and make it their business to benefit from every twitch of emotion in the populace. It’s not even surprising that bureaucrats are jumping on board—the fears aroused are sure to lend them more power and prestige to wield in the battles over funding and control of our daily lives. Celebrities—well, enough said about them.

But most of us tend to defer to scientists, and tend to assume that their first loyalty is to the truth, so when they start getting deeply involved in politics and sounding a warning, citizens are generally inclined to listen.

I won’t speculate about why some climate scientists (and many others, who are almost completely ignorant of the subject) have been banging the drum on climate change and scaring the bejeezus out of many of us—I’ll leave the psychologizing to others—but let me repeat a few facts that should lead most of us to be very skeptical of their warnings.

Climate scientists haven’t got much of a handle on why global climate is so naturally variable—and it is very variable indeed—and hence have a terrible time explaining why global temperatures have varied so much over the millennia. So if you don’t know how the system works, or for that matter which exact variables influence the wild swings within a very chaotic system, how competent will you be in detecting the influence of relatively minor influences such as human behaviors?

The data that climate scientists are using is incredibly unreliable and imprecise. There is very little actual data that is any good at all, it spans such a relatively short time period and is so very local in nature that it barely comprises a decent snapshot, no less a movie of earth’s climate history. Most of the data used is based upon climate “reconstructions” or proxy data such as tree rings and pollen counts, not actual temperature data itself. Hence the margin of error on this data is significant enough to nearly swamp any “signal” buried in the “noise” of potential errors. We are, after all, looking at temperature variations in the range of 1 to 2 degrees Fahrenheit,

Add to all this uncertainty the fact that basic features of the earth’s climate, such as what exactly causes clouds, how important are variations in solar energy output, how sensitive are the oceans’ heat “conveyor belts” to external changes, and you begin to understand how daunting a problem understanding climate changes really is.

The importance of carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas is grossly overstated in the popular literature. If you read most popular accounts of the greenhouse effect, you would think carbon dioxide is the most significant greenhouse gas.

It isn’t. In fact, water vapor is by far the most significant of the greenhouse gases, and right now we haven’t got much of a clue regarding how changes in one atmospheric component influence changes in the total greenhouse effect.

We are still at a point in climate science where the things we don’t know or understand heavily outweigh the things we do. And yet climate scientists, who can’t yet explain fully big changes in climate like the cycles between ice ages and temperate times, want us to turn human civilization on its head. Based upon what, exactly? A hunch?

In any realm other than politics, such a conceit would be obviously absurd. But in politics, the normal rules don’t apply. It is in the interests of the politicians to stoke our fears and present themselves as the solution providers. In is in the interest of bureaucrats to extend their power. Celebrities want to be relevant, and pretty much the same is true of the media.

It is in all their interests to have citizens cede power and prestige over to them.

That’s why climate change is at the top of everyone’s agenda. It makes its proponents more relevant and more powerful.

The current climate scare has little to do with the state of the science, and everything to do with the political interests of the people promoting it.

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About The Author

David Strom is the President of the Minnesota Free Market Institute. He hosts a weekly radio show on AM-1280 "The Patriot" in Minneapolis-St. Paul, available on podcast at Townhall.com.

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On G.W. Bush vs G.W.
GW stands for Global Warming.

When referring to the 43rd president of the United States, it's GWB or just "W" (pronounced, "DUBya").

When referring to the 41st president of the United States, it's GHWB, or "Bush 41", or "RML" (Read My Lips).

Scientists vs junk scientists
Or how can I continue to receive my free government (cheese) grant?

Those of you who know and know that you know won't need to verify but you will anyway because that is your nature - Trust but verify. Those of you who are card-carrying members of the Flat Earth Society will run to moveon.org or dummies underground to ask for directions to the nearest hole in the sand. But on the wild hope that there is still a smattering of the scientific method left from elementary school, here are some sites with science as the foundation.

http://www.oism.org/project. In charge is Frederick Seitz, Past President of the National Academy of Sciences

This is from Wikipedia:

The climate of the Sahara has undergone enormous variation between wet and dry over the last few hundred thousand years. During the last ice age, the Sahara was bigger than it is today, extending south beyond its current boundaries[2]. The end of the ice age brought wetter times to the Sahara, from about 8000 BCE to 6000 BCE, perhaps due to low pressure areas over the collapsing ice sheets to the north[3].

Once the ice sheets were gone, the northern part of the Sahara dried out. However, not long after the end of the ice sheets, the monsoon which currently brings rain to the Sahel came further north and counteracted the drying trend in the southern Sahara. The monsoon in Africa (and elsewhere) is due to heating during the summer. Air over land becomes warmer and rises, pulling in cool wet air from the ocean. This causes rain. So, paradoxically, the Sahara was wetter when it received more insolation in the summer. In turn, changes in solar insolation are caused by changes in the Earth's orbital parameters.

By around 2500 BCE, the monsoon retreated south to approximately where it is today[4], leading to the desertification of the Sahara. The Sahara is currently as dry as it was about 13,000 years ago.[5] These conditions are responsible for what has been called the Sahara Pump Theory.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/harris061206.htm

http://www.john-daly.com


Karl- George Bush is a politician
who attempts to score points and win over the opposition.

And he was trying to calm the shaky hysterical nerves of the poor ignorant slobs who have bought into the lies of the Left.

You know, when your toddler thinks there is a monster under the bed, and you pretend to kill it to make them feel better and shut the f__k up!

Am I pleased?

Not particularly.

Are my knickers in a knot?

Not really.

Do I agree with everything he says?

No, I think for myself.

Am I voting for him in 2008?

He is not running.

GW: George W. or Global Warming?
President George W. Bush, State of the Union, 2007

"America is on the verge of technological breakthroughs that will enable us to live our lives less dependent on oil. And these technologies will help us be better stewards of the environment, and they will help us to confront the serious challenge of global climate change."

Does Mountain Rose count him amoung her "Liars"? Would Vic call him an "enviro-weenie"? Is he one of Lydia's "hypocrites" [sic]? (Wait, most of us know Lydia's opinion of our President!)

I support the President's (and Gore's) approach: reduce our dependence on oil and, with regard to global warming, error on the side of caution.


Public Relations is all it is;

maybe global warming deserves continued study, (under a controlled budget); but, it does not deserve its current position in MSM as a battering ram against the public to establish a bad political platform for the 2008 election.

Please study kyoto. The first goals set by interested energetic European participants are not being met, and they cannot be met. The whole premisis is unattainable and politically driven. Investment in Carbon Credits is a ploy to divert funds to undeveloped countries.

In the US delayed construction of new power generation due to nuclear opposition in the seventies was followed by regulatory battering of this industry through permitting and public hearing requirements by the EPA. Now further delay is driven by gw, sequestration, gassification, etc. California sets the standard for controlling the power generation industry. Howre they doing?

Oh for the days when PR meant a power company advertised for new plant construction based on providing low cost energy for future economic development!


majority?
Coolnout writes: Friday, February, 02, 2007 9:52 AM
Kooky WIng Nuts!
Most Republicans believe in god with no evidence other than a book written 100's of years ago but, when a majority of the scientific community continues to affirm the evidence of global warming they call it bunk.
Honestly, who are the real idiots here?


and WHAT majority would that be? I have YET to say any so called "majority" except of "elites" that believe this hype!
so HONESTLY who are the real idiots here????

4 1/2 Hours and Counting
Hey SuperMario, have you no (rational) response to my questions in my 5:13 pm "No Evidence of Medieval Warming?" post?

Re: Coolnout, 9:52 AM
Correction, most PEOPLE believe in God in some form. Also, there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence supporting the existence of God, even without relying once on the Bible. I would encourage you to educate yourself on this topic by picking up a book on Christian apologetics. Try "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Geisler and Turek, or if you want something more scholarly and detailed (and much longer), "Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview" by Moreland and Craig. I was once an atheist (after being raised Catholic), so I know where you're coming from. I'm sure you won't be convinced by Bible verses or by the eyewitness testimonies of Christians to the (very real) effects of God in their lives, but you should keep an open mind.

In this format, I cannot possibly do justice to the large amount of evidence for God's existence that you will find in either of those books. I will just leave you with what I consider to be the most compelling argument that Jesus was who He claimed to be. Why would the Apostles have gone willingly to HORRIBLE deaths (in all but one instance) just to protect a lie (i.e., that Jesus rose from the dead after three days and subsequently appeared to them in the flesh)? Reflecting on this question led me, along with the love shown by a Christian fellowship group in college, to investigate further and eventually to accept God's gift of grace.

Evaluate the evidence for yourself, but do not claim enlightenment when you in fact argue from a position of ignorance. (I say this out of love, not defensiveness nor desire to win an argument.)

Incorrect Super Mario!

Although I agree that both can be guilty of hyperbole, the degree to which fear is used, the motivation behind the fear mongering, and the reaction to dissenters is markedly different.

You seem to think that right wingers warning people about the dangers of Islamic extremism is the same as left wingers warning people about the dangers of Global Warming?? That would be a tragic mistake, but many liberals make it everyday.

We KNOW that Islamic terrorists seek to destroy innocent Americans. You and I both saw the Trade Center buildings collapse. You hear what their leaders say. So when conservatives warn of the dangers, it seems crazy not to take these seriously.

As far as Global Warming, sure it sounds terrifying (due to lefty hysteria) just as the impending ICE AGE sounded terrifying, just as the FOOD SHORTAGE sounded terrifying, just as the "We are out of oil in 30 years" crowd sounded terrifying. And none of them happened, even though all the liberals told us they would. "Ahhhhhh! Run for the hills!!!!"

You would be a fool to think that all these lefty leaders want to do is save the planet. They want to scare you into voting for them. Although the right also wants you to vote for them, they will fight even when it isn't popular.

Lastly, most conservative policies seek to limit government and give individuals freedom and control over their lives. Liberal policies do the exact opposite. So you would also be incorrect to say that both want to CONTROL people.

Socialism hopes to LEVEL the playing field, more by attacking those on top than lifting those on the bottom. Capitalism and competition encourages everyone to reach for the stars. Some will make it, some won't. But those who don't will make it into the clouds. Unfortunately, liberals either convince people not to even bother reaching for the stars, or they try to drag down people just as they start to move up in the world.

Super Mario...here's an idea for you (that someone proposed the other day). You and your liberal friends can pay the higher liberal tax rate, while allowing conservatives to pay the lower conservative rate. At the same time, you can follow the liberal rules of government while allowing conservatives the freedom they desire. So when you are taxed per mile driven (to stop you from driving), I will be free to drive as I desire in the car that fits my needs and finances.

Of course, liberals wouldn't like that...because they want to CONTROL everyone. And of course, they need the money from the CONSERVATIVES that the rob.

State of Fear
I highly recommend the book "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton to anyone who wants to know more about the many serious flaws in the GW arguments.

Cause
I think global warming exists. The big question is whether it is caused by man's actions. The scientific papers I have read indicate that in fact very little of it is caused by man's actions. There is more impact from gaseous discharges from livestock, than caused by man. These same papers indicate that global warming is a cycle the earth is going through.... that we are not causing it to happen.

I do wish we'd stop polluting the water so much though. Being able to eat fish, without the added mercury, would be nice.

Super Mario
The notion that we want to "ban" gay marriage is absurd. For all of human history, marriage has been an exclusively heterosexual institution. Liberals now want to redefine marriage to include homosexual couples. To say that conservatives want to ban gay marriage is no more appropriate than saying that we want to ban bestiality. Bestiality has never been considered acceptable nor a legitimate basis for marriage, although there are some people who would like to CHANGE that. I am not comparing gays to those who engage in bestiality, only using an analogy to illustrate the absurdity of your dishonest portrayal of the conservative position on marriage. I suppose pro-lifers are really anti-choice, right? It helps to vilify them as maliciously opposing other people's "right" to choose to have an abortion rather than simply acknowledging that they have a different viewpoint that is reasonable and that is held in a good faith effort to do the right thing.

You're right that control is no exclusively a left-wing tool, but they do seem to rely on it to a much greater extent. It is perfectly reasonable for people to argue that we should be afraid of people who not only tell us they want to kill us, but have barbarically killed Americans here and abroad for decades. That's no paranoia, that's self-preservation. The "debacle" in Boston was justified because the evidence the police had at the time included a similar situation to what the IRA liked to do in Ireland and England. They would place bombs around cities near key infrastructure and then phone in a bomb threat for a particular intersection. As police responded and moved people away from the intersection, which would concentrate people in the areas around that intersection, the terrorists would set off bombs in those newly-crowded areas. Every major police department in the world is aware of this tactic and the Boston PD acted prudently in this situation. Can you make any argument to the contrary, other than a simple assertion that it was a "paranoid" "debacle"?

Pointguard, it goes both ways.
Fear and control has been used by both sides in politics, don't make the mistake that the left is only guilty of it. It's a common notion on this site that the right is guiltless in this regard and that's totally false. Lets look at a couple of the biggies, shall we?

The right wants to ban gay marriage.

Here, we see the conservative idea of morality being forced on the country. They are trying to CONTROL what people do because of how they feel about a certain subject.

What about fear?

The right invokes terrorism and 9/11 to get people behind military action in the Middle East. What happens when the government tells you over and over again: "The terrorists hate your way of life and want to kill you"? Well, we start to get paranoid, like yesterday's debacle in Boston showed.

So, again, control is not a left-wing-exclusive by any means.


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Looking for farmers and agricultural workers, ranchers, road builders, hotelliers, restauranteurs, retailers, school teachers, accountants, truck drivers, heavy equipment operators, bankers, clerks, (etc. all jobs from all job classifications)

All ages and job skills.

Must be willing to relocate in the temperate climate of northern Canada, Siberia, or Greenland.

Super Mario
You are right, insults can be (and are) thrown from both sides...but here is the main difference: those on the left wish to CONTROL people.

This is why the GW crowd is so dangerous.

I absolutely HATE the the government of NYC wants to ban trans-fat. At the same time, I have NO problem with McDonald's removing trans-fat of their own volition.

Let the free market create a car that gets 140 miles per gallon with similar performance, and that product will succeed in the market place.

But the hysterical lefties want to scare me and you into voting along liberal lines. Then they will try to tax and tax and tax in an effort to stop people from doing this and that. Of course, the real aim of liberalism is more power. Once the GW circus quiets down, there will be another problem inherent with freedom and capitalism that must be destroyed.

Remember, it is all about CONTROL!!!

Paul, I believe the problem is this:
It's not a matter of the climate change, per se, it's a matter of, if man is really causing global warming, how we're treating the environment.

I can't even being to imagine how we might cool the earth artificially, but if we were doing it my feelings would be the same - something we're doing is screwing with the planet, and since nature is really good about balance, we'd be disrupting that balance, and there'd be natural consequences. Personal comfort is not at the base of anyone's GW argument, at least I don't think so. People aren't complaining about this because it's going to be "uncomfortably hot" in the future. They're complaining because of the profound changes GW could have on the environment.

And while you'd rather adapt to warmer temperatures (I'm guessing you live in a relatively mild zone), what about those living in deserts, africa, southwestern America, the middle east? Higher temperatures could be deadly for those people, from heat stroke to drought, and adapting will be much more difficult and costly. Global warming is just that...global. Not everyone lives in a place that could stand to be a few degrees warmer.

No Evidence of Medieval Warming?
So SuperMario ...

(1) Leif Ericson and Company and their descendants DID NOT farm and ranch on Greenland circa 1100-1300+?

(2) The Norse/Greenlanders DID NOT report back to Iceland and Norway of finding a place they called Vineland where wild grapes grew and which archeologists and historians now think was northern Newfoundland?

You do not need tree ring sizes, sediment drillings, and other indirect and admittedly inexact proxies for temperature to know based upon human activity that at least in the lands bordering the North Atlantic the temperatures HAD to be higher than they are today. The Norse/Greenland/Vineland evidence combined with many other types of evidence from the time from other parts of the world is a lot more concrete than the current evidence for global warming today.

So who is more irrational -- those who deny the medieval warming period because it jeopardizes their argument for global warming today (rather than say, just a naturally occurring variation like the medieval warming period or maybe, no warming at all) or those who trust that the excavations of the Norse/Greenland and Norse/Newfoundland settlements are not hoaxes and, in fact, it was warmer then than now?

SuperMario
You still haven't answered my question. Would you feel better if the earth was getting colder? The earths climate is always changing; there is no baseline that can be considered the "ideal" climate. We have adapted to the live in the climate as it is currently. We may have to adapt in the future. I would rather adapt to warmer temperatures.

I agree,
Though i think if you'll look back in the comments above, it's not only the "global warming is fact" crowd that are throwing the insults. In fact, most of the insults come from those who don't believe GW exists at all. That should be clear, as your post makes it seem like "GW is fact" crowds are the only ones using insulting language rather than debating facts.

Insults are not arguments...
To the "Global Warming is fact" crowd, let me note a couple of things from my column:

1) you may not have noticed it but I did not dismiss the possibility of anthropogenic global warming, merely whether or not our models are sufficiently good to detect such a "signal" amidst the noise of uncertainties and bad data.

2) I noted that climate science cannot yet explain the huge, known swings in global climate (remember the ice ages, folks?), so it seems pretty implausible that it cand discern relatively small changes caused by human beings.

3) Basic questions regarding very important climate phenomena--ever heard of clouds?--are not yet answered. Are you aware that there is a correlation between cloud formation and cosmic rays? Such a correlation means that solar and extrasolar phenomena such as the solar and galactic winds can have a very strong impact on climate, and are completely outside human control.

The point of my piece was that the uncertainties are HUGE--much too large to be dismissed--and yet the chorus of the climate change crowd is getting louder. And climate change prophets are trying mightily to enforce an othodoxy in the same manner as the Church enforced it on Galileo--by threats.

In this environment, skepticism is warranted. If all you have to counter that argument is insults (I read quite a few in the comments) and appeals to authority, that is pretty weak.

Vic, I've read the responses
And haven't found them compelling. Claims about medieval warm periods (they don't believe data from the last 50 years, but suddenly we know oh so much about medieval periods that we can regard it as fact) or the 1930s cancelling out global warming, questions about GW not being a bad thing, etc.

You can claim the matter's closed, but it's far from it. Now, I ask, does anyone else (BESIDES Vic, who obviously has nothing to do but try and insult me) feel like telling me why GW doesn't exist?

What really gets me here is the selective hearing that seems to be going on in terms of GW. Scientists are telling the truth only when they're on your side of the party line?

Farley Mowat
I am of course quite familiar with his writings, since he thinks he's such an expert on things Alaskan -- but doesn't live here. He makes several assertions about wolves and caribou in his book "Never Cry Wolf" that Alaskans will tell you are fallacies.

Just for an instance -- wolves do attack and hunt humans when they get hungry enough. Ooo, but Priscilla Feral (of PETA, and does anyone wonder if that's a stage name) says that's not so, that if wolves are driven to that end it is because humans caused it. Yeah, well, the village of McGrath caught a wolf on video trying to carry away one of their children. I saw the video. It looked like a wolf and the wolf looked pretty healthy to me. Priscilla will insist it was a dog, but those of us who live among huskies know the difference, as the people of McGrath (an Indian village) certainly did.

When I was in junior high, a heavy snow fall year (one of those evidences of the coming ice age that didn't come) forced a pack of wolves from the valley north of town to come closer to people. Some dogs and farm animals disappeared, but then children began reporting "dogs" stalking through through the woods as they came home from the bus in an outlaying neighborhood. One day, those "dogs" chased two friends of mine up into their yard where the family dog (a wolf-hybrid) sacrificed his life to slow them down so that the one kid could reach a rifle his dad had put out on the porch to frighten away the "wild dogs." One of the "dogs" was shot. The others scattered. The corpse turned out to be a wolf. A local mother who didn't work started picking the kids up at the bus stop and ferrying them to their houses after that. The necropsy showed that the wolf was starving to death. Deep snows had made it impossible for the pack to reach their primary winter food source - field mice -- and moose could still outrun them in the deep snow. So they turned to slower, less protected prey -- like Fido and the kids next door.

I mentioned this to a Fish and Game officer a few years ago and he said it's a story that floats around their office sometimes, but that it was patently untrue. The look on his face when I told him that one of those children was a good friend of mine and I had played fetch with the wolf-hybrid who had died that day -- well, it was precious! He then backpaddled and said I must be misremembering the story, that it was a wolf-hybrid stalking the children. No, that was reported in the papers the first day, before the necropsy showed it was definitely a wolf that had stalked Tina and her brother. But, no, I must have the story wrong, because wolves never stalk and kill humans, ever. Only 35 years ago, truth happened, but now, everybody thinks it's myth. There aren't that many of us left who lived there then and can speak for the truth.

That's why such foolishness as Global Warming easily becomes irrefutable, because people these days have no belief in history and they think that feelings matter so much more than facts.

To Super Mario
All you have to do is scroll up and read all the responses to the past GW bunk. The answers are the same, no change here just move on down the road.

Also, thanks for
actually debating the facts. You've really made a strong argument against global warming in your last post. Thanks for showing me the light.

Ah vic, glad to see your're keeping it
civil. Thanks for that.

Also, party politics aside, might I suggest you guys find a better phrase than "libtards" or "libdolts"? Those are pretty weak insults, I'm sure you guys can be more creative.

To Super Mario
Do you libtards have some kind of schedule for coming on here? We note that ajr has left and immediately after that you come in with another line of dogma from worship at the holy church of inviro-weenism.

Let me make it short for you. We really don't give a flying fig for anything that lying corrupt organization on the Hudson river says. If everyone who ever walked in the door there said the sun was rising in the East tommorow I'd have to go outside and check it.

warmer climates do not necessarily mean
better growing seasons. It can also mean more droughts (like the ones that have been crippling india the past few years), crop burning, a change in crop composition due to higher C02 in the air (more vegetation, leaves, stalks, less actual grain, lower nutritional content, less protein)...

It's not as simple as just "oh awesome, more beach time!"

Mr. Strom questions
Why people who aren't scientists claim to know everything, and then he proceeds to do the very same. He knows better than most of the scientists on earth, I guess.

The global consensus on GW right now (as detailed in the recently released report) is that it is 90% likely that it is caused by mankind. It's not just "some scientists", it's the majority of them.

On using fear to promote an agenda... Hm, where have I seen that before? GWB whips out 9/11 and terrorism as if they were tic-tacs, and you guys have no problem. People claim GW exists and suddenly they're using "fear to promote a misguided agenda". Do you not see the double standard here?

And I've said it before and I'll say it again: Man, for people who believe the ONE RIDICULOUS pseudo-scientist who says the earth is less than 10,000 years, it's really surprising that you guys have such a hard time believing something like global warming could exist when the majority of the scientific community says that it does.

As for claims about the earth being warmer at different points in history- climate change tracks trends and patterns, a couple warm periods in history doesn't discredit it in the least. The overall trend is that the world is getting warmer, and that it will continue to get warmer.

One degree doesn't seem like a not, but it will continue to increase, perhaps faster, and even a change of 10 degrees will result in the world being a significantly different place. Higher oceans, animal extinctions, etc.

BobDoyle
Well said. I read that some glaciers are increasing, some are thinning. Al Gore was selective in filming his movie. I don't see why global warming is a thing to fear. Better that than cooling. We are thinking beings. We will adjust.

For PriceyInTheOC
I can remember reading exerpts of "Earth in the Balance" and noting their similarity with exerpts from "Never Cry Wolf" and "Curse of the Viking grave" (both written by Farley Mowat, the latter a novel).

It's no surprise that Gore has to raise alarms--otherwise, people would notice he's always been an irrelevant, credit-taking plagiarist.

And, as MountainRose stated, he's going to the Lake of Fire!

What if it were getting colder?
For anyone who is really concerned about global warming, the real question is "Would you feel better if it were getting colder?"

The entire global warming scare is based on the unspoken idiotic assumption that the earth's average temperature and overall climate were perfect 100 years ago. Maybe things will be different if the temperature rises, but why would you expect the average temperature to stay constant for 200 years?

The climate will change. I would prefer shorter winters and longer growing seasons over expanding glaciers and increased permafrost.

Coolnout writes...
"Honestly, who are the real idiots here?"

I would say...
1. All those who automatically believe what "scientists" say, regardless of their agenda, without reviewing the available evidence and thinking for themselves.
2. Those who have to call people "idiots" to make their point.

And anybody who happens to fall into both categories would probably be among the biggest idiots of all.

Enviro classic stories and tales
All these same know it alls were around in the 1970's, albeit different people. The big stink then was global cooling. I recall at the first "Earth Day" angst fest it was one of the planet's direst threats. All caused by the usual suspects, corporations, automobiles, capitalism, Americans, human beings and other things the world should do away with.
Among the scare divel they taught us, with straight faces, was that every single day in the year, the "Rain Forest" lost an area the size of Manhattan Island to development. Let's see, I was told that about vintage 1970, so I'm wondering just how much of that luckless "Rain Forest" there is left.
One of the terrible aspects of losing the precious "Rain Forest" to the evil forces of civilisation would be the loss of POSSIBLE Miraculous drugs that might cure cancer, or blindness, or old age, or whatever might be your personal pet fear. These were POSSIBLY to developed from POSSIBLE unknown flora in the "Rain forest" and apparently, ONLY there.

Just wondering ...
... how many of the global warming alarmists are putting their "greens" where their mouths are? Are any buying land in northern Canada and Siberia?

... why global warming, if it is happening, is necessarily more bad than good?

... how Greenland, which is now virtually a block of ice, could support about 3000 Norse settlers at its zenith, some vegetable farming (but not grains because the growing season was too short), and grazing of goats, sheep, and cattle for over 200 years after about 1100?

… why the Vikings named the place Vineland (that archeologists/historians think is now northern Newfoundland) and reported that wild grapes grew there but today there is no grape-growing industry in northern Newfoundland?

... what caused all the other interglacial periods (the warmer periods, such as we are in now, with smaller ice sheets as contrasted with the colder, glacial, periods with more extensive ice sheets in an ice age) which have occurred roughly every 40 thousand years and which began about 40 million years ago when man could not have been a factor?

... what caused the warming that brought the earth out of each of the at least 3 major previous ice ages over the last 2.7 billion years, when man was certainly not a factor?

... why, even if we had 100 years of hard and accurate data, which we do not, on ALL of the relevant factors (which we do not even know), would any real scientist think such a short period, by climatic change standards, is sufficient data to predict global climactic change?

... is there any hubris involved with not only saying that global warming is beyond dispute but also that man is the cause is also beyond dispute?

... is it not unreasonable to assume that we are not dealing with real science here?

agenda
I suspect that underlying as least part of the GW advocacy are at least two items: there are a lot more people than there used to be, therefore we are having more of an effect on the environment than we used to; and we've been burning more carbon-based fuel than we used to, so this must be having some kind of effect. In other words, there is a bias against people.
But look again: where are most of the people, and most of the uncontrolled pollution? And Kyoto gives them an exemption???? Probably a recogntion that Asia would ignore it anyway---

Oh btw
The Global Warming zealots are getting alot more than $10K in benefits and grants through this crisis they're creating.

coolnout
"I can't think of a better definition of a kook than one who believes in something without proof........ "

I can. Someone who believes in something with conviction in spite of direct evidence against.

Gunny gave you that kind of direct evidence. We KNOW that the earth's weather is cyclical. What we don't know is if our activities are having enough effect to cause more severe hurricanes et al.

BTW, there is more "proof" for that book written "100's of years ago" than for human dependent global warming, abiogenesis, macroevolution, or the naturalist philosophy in general.

Your comment does point to an interesting bias you apparently hold... that antiquity and historical success as a means of positive individual and societal change somehow disqualify a book from being worthy of our faith.

The deal with Scientists
Scientists evolve. They use tobe the smartest of the smart. They had to have reasoning skillz and the ability to think freely. That is not the case anymore. Most(not all) of the people who get the best grades are the best cheaters, or have the ability to reproduce huge amounts of information from memory. Science use to be very closely related to Philosophy, Character and integrity matter. If we use the same models that are used to pridict the end of the world to predict the future of science, science will be gone long before the globe warms up a few more degrees.
Theese models are designed to represent a agenda. Much like a calculator is disinged to give the asnwer to the equation. I can manipulate the answer by putting in factors that I know will give me an expected result.
Instead of objective study we have people who want fame and recognition.

gratefulheart - what a beautiful ...
testimony!

Gunny G - I've been reading your blog and simply adore you. You're the man!

Mr. Strom has wonderfully stated the obvious.

"Science" has become "belief." Do you notice how those who want to latch onto such things as "global warming" are usually the same camp who claim we must "redeploy" from Iraq? the same folks who "blame America first" and wish to "negotiate" with the terrorists? And they are usually agnostic/atheistic?

Well, I have it on good authority that such folks are fools. Put them all in their proper place -- ignore them.







Coolnout...wow
What can I say, Coolnout, except, "well done you". In response to your post that global warming must be true and Republicans/people who believe in god must be idiots, GunnyG lists a few facts for you. You don't respond to any of the facts, and instead insist that the real issue is that an unnamed corporation (making profit, no less--O, the horror!) is offering money to anyone "who can contradict observations of climate change". If this is part of your case to show that global warming must therefore be true (since evil profit-making and society-exploiting corporations wish it not to be true), then here are two problems with that belief:
1) Objective facts are true no matter what the motives others have for wanting them to be true. If I offer $5 million to anyone who will prove that water freezes at 0°C, no matter how evil or good my motives for wanting this evidence, no matter how much profit I will make if it is true, or how much I plan to help humanity if it is false, that will not change the objective fact of the freezing point of water one bit. So, even if it is in the interests of this profit-making monster that claims of global warming (or at least man-made global warming) are proven false, that doesn't in and of itself make the evidence they gather false.
2) Before you insist that someone will falsify the data for the money (in my example $5 million, and in your post a mere $10,000), please take a moment and think really hard if you want to say that. Consider that $10,000 is a rather paltry sum to trash one's reputation in the scientific community (and the evidence would pretty much have to come from a climate scientist or one in a related field), whereas on the other side of the debate, going along with the herd and crying that a catastrophe is coming has been a very successful method of generating millions upon millions of dollars for research. If you want to claim that anyway, be aware that you are admitting that in this debate data will be faked for money, and that this debate does not consist of evil moneyed corporations on one side and dispassionate seekers of truth who would never stoop to consider base materialist concerns on the other.
So, I enjoy a free and healthy exchange of ideas and facts, which is why I look forward to your reasoned rebuttal of GunnyG's posting. Oh, and by the way, when you wrote "The thing you should be asking yourself is why a company who just posted the highest profits ever", I'm sure you actually meant to say "a company which" or "a company that", since a company is not a person (a "who").

Coolnout: My point exactly
(except the slur)
Coolnout, I have first hand, experiential proof for what I believe.

I didn't choose my beliefs--I was plucked from an oblivious life, like a drowsing person who is rescued from an overheated hot tub and rudely revived by a caring Person.

You have only faith in third hand information from authorities you can't name and don't know. But their claims are compatible with a case you are making that you hope will justify your life choices.

I understand this, because I am standing outside the hot tub, shivering because it is not as comfortable here as it was when I was dying of comfort. I am also shivering because I see what I escaped, and what I have been saved for.

You are not a kook, though--you are just drowsy in your unquestioning trust--and you are dying, my friend.




coolnout
The inability of an individual to read and assess factual data makes lefty loons like you.

http://www.zianet.com/web/gwarm.htm

Check the links at the bottom of the page. CREDIBLE individuals NOT fring loons who predicted an ice age in 2000 now predicted we're all gonna die from rising oceans.

Now, once more, try to assess the information on your own. Indeed, NASA's own satellites reflect that the Earth is cooling!

Or did Rove's agents get to that data as well?

Coolnout: Your faith . . .
rests on your assumptions about the the honesty and lack of bias or receptivity to undue influence in scientists selected to present this message. Further, your faith rests on your assumptions about the accuracy of their findings and the impeccability of their research.

You have no knowledge of the influences on them, no knowledge of their research sponsors, no knowledge of their characters, their professional strengths and gaps. Further, you have no knowledge of other research results that contradict these publicized findings, nor of the research that was not funded, or was suppressed due to political pressures. Neither do I. Yet you believe.

You believe, based on the idea that these claims come from a "majority of the scientific community"--a completely undefined, shifting body of nameless people.

I believe in God because He has intervened in my life and changed my life. Every day is transformed by His intervention, and I can no more say He is not there than that the sun did not heat and light the earth today, or that my children were not born to me.

And on that latter, you'll just have to believe me . . . or not.



Enviro-Flagellants
The Town Hall columnists need to quit making back-to-back articles on GW. The libtards get refuted in one column only to move to the next column pushing their unadulterated spew in the same manner as before. The common refrain is “we have proof we have proof; where is yours?” In other words “Bring Me the Head of Global Warming” (sorry Sam). They will not be satisfied with any logic known to man because they have signed on to eco-wingnutism with a religious fever unequaled since the flagellants of the middle ages.

I think I will write a white paper that has all the links and proofs that show there is no consensus among the real scientists and save it on my hard drive. Every time TH does an article on GW and the enviro-whackos crawl out of the woodwork like the cockroaches that they are, I can just paste it in and move on.

Fat Albert
WHY doesn't Fat Albert get asked about his pollution of the Caney Fork River. His mining operation (by a foreign mining outfit) has polluted this stream for years and no one questions him about it. If he is so worried about the environment, why does he insist on living in an outrageous mansion (one among many) and cavoring the country in private jets?

coolnout
Here are a few facts. Try to open your mind.

1. The polar ice caps on Mars are melting. How did our CO2 emissions get all the way to Mars?

2. It was warmer in the 1930s across the globe than it is right now. (Dust Storms across the USA)

3. It wasn't all that long ago that these very same scientists were warning us about "global cooling" and another approaching ice age? (Time Magazine 24 July 74,

"As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age."

4. How much has the earth warmed up in the last 100 years? One degree. Now that's frightening.

5. What happened to the Medieval Warm Period? In 1996 the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a chart showing climatic change over a period of 1000 years. This graph showed a Medieval warming period in which global temperatures were higher than they are today. In 2001 the IPCC issued another 1000 year graph in which the Medieval warming period was missing. Why?

6. Why is the ice cap on the Antarctic getting thicker if the earth is getting warmer?

The rest of the story at: http://www.boortz.com

Sorry but the facts outweigh the hysteria. BTW, HOW DID that Ice Age predicted in 1974 work out? I was busy driving SUV's on Mars getting G.W. started.

Nero fiddled indeed
That comment above was dead on. A prominent liberal (forget which one but I suspect that it is a common sentiment) recently said that global warming was far more of a threat to humanity than radical Islam.

Classic liberalism wouldn't you say? Believe something you have no concrete proof for but takes you politically where you want to go... But deny/ignore something (Islamists' intentions) that you have ample proof of to include their direct statements about what they intend to do.

BUT...
But I know everything!!!! (except things I don't) ... :)

Science
I worked for a telemetry company for many years. We sold a system to Hughes when they were putting up satellites that would monitor the atmosphere for changes. Their scientists told me that the Earth and moon have the same average temperature. The moon has no atmosphere and the Earth does. Basically the atmosphere just moderates the highs and lows.

Since then I have listened to several scientists on radio who basically reinforce this statement. They state that greenhouse concept is insignificant to the temperature of the Earth. They also claim that there is political pressure to hide the medieval warming that took place and the fact that the glaciers started reducing in size starting in 1840.

Have you noticed...
Most all of the people warning us about 'global' warming are those who spend most of their time in a tuxedo and posing for a camera?

I don't know about the rest of the schlubs out there, but I get the distinct impression a bunch of elitist high-brows are just out to impose their rightful authority and supreme leadership over the peons on the plantations.

They won't stop jetting around; the schlubs will.
They won't stop burning large amounts of fuel; the schlubs will.
They won't worry about the price of gasoline; just the schlubs.
In the end, they'll retain their positions of supreme leader, movie star, and titles of nobility. Meanwhile, the schlubs will wonder how they'll pay the taxes to dress, feed and shelter their great leaders and their children.

It's easier to change other people
than to change yourself, because you'd have to give up stuff if you changed; much better to make other people give up stuff, so you can keep yours....

My kids learned quite young to gleefully shout "WEREALLGONNADIE!" whenever one of those ads with the ominous Jaws-type music comes along. I remember my oldest boy shouting "Mama! Mama! Killer Bees are Coming to Georgia!" and laughing as he and his brother and friends ran in circles in the yard waving their arms and imitating hysteria until they fell down laughing. I am sincerely glad I don't have children at home since David Suzuki's ominous Global Warming commercial featuring a PC assortment of children each saying the word "Tick" ... because I know I would have to toss my kids out in the Global Warming as they gathered everyone in the neighbourhood to take turns saying "Tick" until they were laughing too hard to continue.

Why is it that people believe if they really annoy you, you'll give in just to make them shut up? Maybe they needed a Mama to tell them to shut up and go outside and play hockey "Or By God You'll Wish You Had."

and the band-wagon gets larger...
Because Al Gore lost the race, and will go down in history as such, he desperately wants to be remembered for something, hence he's pushing his "Global Warming" bit.

The left politicians jumps on the band-wagon with him, because they can't talk about the threat from Islam because they don't believe it's a threat, and even if they did believe it, they don't have a clue on how to stop it.

The media jumps on the band-wagon because they hate Bush and Cheney and want to blame the "Global Warming" on them.

Hollywood jumps on the band-wagon because they feel the "need" to do something, anything to give value to their valueless lives.

The EU jumps on the band-wagon because they want to blame America and it's wicked capitalism for their weakening countries.

The UN jumps on the band-wagon because they want to blame America for not signing the Koyoto Agreement.

Good News on Global Warming!
According to the UN:

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-warming2feb02,0,7334392.story?coll=la-home-headlines

At this point, there's nothing we can do to STOP global warming!

So, we might as well not change anything, and keep on driving our SUV's and not worry about it!

Yaaaaay!

About those State Climatologists:
Drudge has a story about Delaware's.

And all the stories I have read that BROWBEAT and threaten some of those climatologists into 'going along' to get along. Some real scare stories where I fear for those who stand up for what they believe.

But if you do read the story, keep in mind how much type is given for those who "fear" and those who don't.

Global Warming
Sorry for the typos. CO@ should be CO2.
BTW, Pinatubo blew in 1991, did a lovely job of terraforming the region.

Global Warning
Barbara Boxer
The esteemed Senator has asked the public to "prioritize" our 'global warming' fears.

She wants us to prioritize our FEARS ?
I, for one, fear for this country if we don't vote out some kooks, nuts and fruits.

The Commonwealth of Virginia has a State Climatologist. He has repeatedly stated that the data concerning "Global Warming" is imperfect and the interpretations generally immature. (My words, not a quote).

The current data shows the sun to be in a heightened state of activity, and has been for some time now. More activity, more energy; the temperature on Earth goes up. This tends to cause more violent storms, including snow storms.

To put the blame of increased temperatures here on Earth as if it is somehow the fault of man is ridiculous and only believable to the naive.

Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines, in one eruption, put up more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than mankind has since records of such things have been kept. And it is estimated that the CO@ from this eruption was also more than we will put into the atmosphere, at our current rate, for the next twenty years.

You may feel compelled to point out that Pinatubo also put into the atmosphere tons of dust which offset the carbon dioxide. Believe that? The dust settled within a few months, the CO2 is still there.

The Kyoto Protocol is based on incomplete date, is flawed and should not be resurrected.

Which brings me back to Barbara Boxer; she wants you to FEAR Global Warming. This is so that you will support her misguided agenda. In the near future she will ask you to re-elect her so she can continue 'helping' us be ever more environmentally friendly and to prevent the evil corporations from destroying the World.

I guess I better move farther north before the temperature get too high here in the South. Darn the bad luck.

Nero fiddles while Rome burns...
...and Al Gore frets over the weather while jihadists infiltrate free nations and set up terror cells.

The man is irrelevant. He flaps his arms and raises a huge fuss for attention...and the village idiots in unison all look toward Al...and join in the squawking.

Honestly! There are more important things about to blow up if we don't stay focused. And Al, in his supreme and über wisdom draws everyone's attention to...this!

I lived in the Valley for a while, and up in the hills were dormant oil derricks. Scrub and wildnerness surrounded the oil derricks for miles and miles, but they were fenced for a hundred yards or more to keep people away. Well, the wilderness is gone and there are subdivisions all around. The only untouched areas are the fenced oil derricks.

Let me repeat that: The only untouched areas are around the oil derricks!

If you want to keep a wilderness area a wilderness, build oil derricks.

Here's a clue for the incredibly dense: Open up the Alaskan reserves!


On Global Warming when it's Cold
You have to remember, the alarmists have all the bases covered.

Record cold snaps are due to wildly fluctuating weather patterns that are cause by -- you guessed it -- Global Warming.

In other words, if it gets warmer, it's Global Warming, but if it gets cooler, it's STILL Global Warming.

It takes alot of chutzpa to promote
Global Warming during a season of record cold temperatures!

Doesn't hurt to have a bias media on your side that is hot to turn the United States of America into the People's Republic of America.

If Al Gore thinks that it is warm now
Just wait until he finds out what happens to All Liars!
http://bible.cc/revelation/21-8.htm

Barbara Boxer
The esteemed Senator has aked the public to "prioritize" our 'global warming' fears.

I gave each a '9' except the last, a '7'.

Please go to http://ga4.org/pacforachange/gw_agenda.html and overload the survey.

error
"You can skim the highlights or deep into charts, graphs and analysis."

Or 'go' deep

SORRY

Gobalwarmingglobalcoolingglobalclimatech
For more info (more than you may want to know) supporting this column, go to junkscience.com.
You can skim the highlights or deep into charts, graphs and analysis.

Read it and weep over the way the alarmists have their panties in a bunch over unsupportable nonsense. Mother Goose had it right...see Henny Penny.

When the dust settles, the Earth may indeed be warming. (There is evidence, not proof, that Mars is warming.) The sad part is that those who are reading the handwringing on the wall have no faith in the American people to deal with change. If we have to, we'll call in a bunch of Dutch engineers and establish dikes around Manhattan, change crops and turn Canada into a bread basket for the world.

Life will go on with new opportunities for our children to exploit.
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