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Tuesday, August 22, 2006
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Point of no return?
by Thomas Sowell
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It is hard to think of a time when a nation -- and a whole civilization -- has drifted more futilely toward a bigger catastrophe than that looming over the United States and western civilization today.

Nuclear weapons in the hands of Iran and North Korea mean that it is only a matter of time before there are nuclear weapons in the hands of international terrorist organizations. North Korea needs money and Iran has brazenly stated its aim as the destruction of Israel -- and both its actions and its rhetoric suggest aims that extend even beyond a second Holocaust.

Send not to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

This is not just another in the long history of military threats. The Soviet Union, despite its massive nuclear arsenal, could be deterred by our own nuclear arsenal. But suicide bombers cannot be deterred.

Fanatics filled with hate cannot be either deterred or bought off, whether Hezbollah, Hamas or the government of Iran.

The endlessly futile efforts to bring peace to the Middle East with concessions fundamentally misconceive what forces are at work.

Hate and humiliation are key forces that cannot be bought off by "trading land for peace," by a "Palestinian homeland" or by other such concessions that might have worked in other times and places.

Humiliation and hate go together. Why humiliation? Because a once-proud, dynamic culture in the forefront of world civilizations, and still carrying a message of their own superiority to "infidels" today, is painfully visible to the whole world as a poverty-stricken and backward region, lagging far behind in virtually every field of human endeavor.

There is no way that they can catch up in a hundred years, even if the rest of the world stands still. And they are not going to wait a hundred years to vent their resentments and frustrations at the humiliating position in which they find themselves.

Israel's very existence as a modern, prosperous western nation in their midst is a daily slap across the face. Nothing is easier for demagogues than to blame Israel, the United States, or western civilization in general for their own lagging position.

Hitler was able to rouse similar resentments and fanaticism in Germany under conditions not nearly as dire as those in most Middle East countries today. The proof of similar demagogic success in the Middle East is all around.

What kind of people provide a market for videotaped beheadings of innocent hostages? What kind of people would throw an old man in a wheelchair off a cruise liner into the sea, simply because he was Jewish? What kind of people would fly planes into buildings to vent their hate at the cost of their own lives?

These are the kinds of people we are talking about getting nuclear weapons. And what of ourselves?

Do we understand that the world will never be the same after hate-filled fanatics gain the ability to wipe whole American cities off the face of the earth? Do we still imagine that they can be bought off, as Israel was urged to buy them off with "land for peace" -- a peace that has proved to be wholly illusory?

Even ruthless conquerors of the past, from Genghis Khan to Adolf Hitler, wanted some tangible gains for themselves or their nations -- land, wealth, dominion. What Middle East fanatics want is the destruction and humiliation of the west.

Their treatment of hostages, some of whom have been humanitarians serving the people of the Middle East, shows that what the terrorists want is to inflict the maximum pain and psychic anguish on their victims before killing them.

Once these fanatics have nuclear weapons, those victims can include you, your children and your children's children.

The terrorists need not start out by wiping our cities off the map. Chances are they would first want to force us to humiliate ourselves in whatever ways their sadistic imaginations could conceive, out of fear of their nuclear weapons.

After we, or our children and grandchildren, find ourselves living at the mercy of people with no mercy, what will future generations think of us, that we let this happen because we wanted to placate "world opinion" by not acting "unilaterally"?

We are fast approaching the point of no return.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Hear Hear!
Well said Dr. Sowell. . . and very disconcerting.

Yup
Shameless plug: "City of Glass" on my blog. I have the same fears of terrs getting their hands on an Iranian nuke, and the result and aftermath.

I'm not hopeful, at this stage, that it can be avoided indefinitely, unless we take pretty drastic preventive measures.

SUICIDE
Bear in mind that these people do NOT fear their own deaths. They actually desire to be martyrs and enjoy the promised eternal bliss. That is why Iran is sooo scary. Our ability to sterilze the country means nothing if they can take out a large number of their "enemies" first. Ahmadinejad is a true believer in this Islamic philosophy. He WILL distribute and use the Islamic bomb with no fear of consequence!!!

I do not know why this obvious truth is not spoken of by any of our "leaders", the talking heads or Middle East "experts".

Have I misinterpeted the message?

The Solution is Simple, Difficult
Conquer Iran. We have to.

The only other option would be to annhiliate any muslim country that announces it has nuclear capability the moment of the announcement.

Dr. Sowell as usual,
with his impeccable logic, helps to clarify what is going on in the Middle East and many parts of the world. Though his explanation of "humiliation" as part of the reason for terrorist action, may help those who are interested in "understanding them." I have no such desire. What I understand is that we are under attack by these murdering fanatics! And if the United States and our allies do nothing to stop them from acquiring nuclear weapons, millions more innocent people will die.

A Lebanon spokesman said on the news tonight, in so many words, that they could care less what the UN, the USA or any other nations order. They will not disarm Hezbollah, and will continue their work in nuclear enrichment! Of course it's for peaceful purposes you know.

Hmmm.. maybe we should send all the Liberals who want to "understand" them over there to "talk" them into stopping.

Crippled by the Dems
The lack of public support for the war in Iraq by our "patriotic" democrats has given hope to those around the world that hate us, that if they hang on long enough, they will prevail. That America lacks the will to fight the Long War. And even if Bush considered using troops in Iran, I believe that he couldn't get the Dems to authorize military action. Hence the failed diplomacy that we are going through now. The U.N. is going to talk about sanctions and may even impose them, but they will have plenty of food for oil provisions that will cut the teeth out of the sanctions. In the end, Iran will get the bomb and then there will be now way to get that genie back in the bottle.

A Longstanding Behavior
Muslim aggression has been central to their civilization from the beginning. For example, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Libya, and Lebanon were all Christian communities that were all enslaved, castrated, raped, subjugated or otherwise forced to convert to Islam.

Muslims direct this hatred to both the "infidels" and to each other, especially their own women. Just look at how many Muslims other Muslims are killing in Iraq each week. It dwarfs the "massacres" in Lebanon. In the 80's, Iran killed a million Iraqi Muslims, and Iraq killed a million Iranian Muslims.

What's most ironic is to hear Muslim "moderates" lecture the West about our intollerance and racism. How funny.

Invading Iran
Invading Iran may be a necessary solution in the future, but not right now. We should cripple Irans infrastructure with massive bombing, and encourage Iran's opposition within the country.

Am I crazy?

A war like no other
Dr. Sowell, as usual, has pinpointed the problem concisely. One problem most people forget when talking about "disabling" Iran, is the millions of Muslims right here, "radical" or not. The only Muslim that is not radical is one who has left the faith in disqust. Any other "moderate" Muslims who don't exactly agree with this fascism are lumped right in there with the rest of us "infidels", and greeted with the same hatred. Any attempt to turn Iran into a parking lot will result with the same type of mayhem we see on the news in Bahgdad, right here in out midst. We are going to have to deal with it. This is not a choice that is ours to make anymore, this is a reality.
I'm in the "parking lot" cheering section.

The "Point of No Return" Returns.
Yes Sir, nuclear war is once again with us. I remember when it was with us the last time, about the time I was 10 years old. The Soviet Union, a quite formidable foe, began "rattling" their nukes, from sometime in the early 50s. Our press was just learning how to be hysterical. About every third issue, "Life Magazine" was publishing pictures of backyard bomb shelters. No one in our community of 150,000 souls ever built one. I don't know of any that were built anywhere, although I am sure there must have been some. The Boxer family might have built one -- people like that.

We had just been through a great war, and a little war that only took 50 some thousand of our young men. We were used to death in order to survive. We kids did not take any of it too seriously. Our parents certainly weren't showing any fear over it. The schools pretty much made a joke over the "incoming nuclear bomb" drills; and we kids treated these drills pretty much like we treated having to go to gym class.

Popular fiction stories began appearing, about what it would be like in a nuclear war. Soon, some of these stories were made into movies. We noticed that most of the stories and movies always ended with a few humans left, to start all over again.

And this is what we expected. And this was OK with us. When I turned 18, with many other young men in my high school class, we obeyed the law of our land and joined the military service. It didn't hurt much.

My point to reminding myself, and you, of those years is merely to note, like others have, that times have changed. Back then, the motto for "feelings" seemed to be, "Never let the bastards get you down" -- meaning never let them see you cry, or whine, and never show any fear.

Alas, that time has gone, that feeling has gone. If we are going to cringe, if we are going to cry and whine, I wonder if there is anything now that can save us?

How Many Lives?
Well said, Dr. Sowell. I wish we would WAKE UP.

How many innocent American lives must be taken before the liberals wake up to the TRUTH of the global threat of terrorism?

How much American blood must run in the streets before we realize that terrorists do not want "peace" - they want to destroy us?

How much slaughter, how much death and destruction must come, before we stop all our posturing about political correctness and pandering for votes, and finally seal our borders?

How long will my children live in fear because we, in our stupid, pointless bickering about "needing to understand WHY they hate us," allow Islamist fanatics like Ahmedinejad and the leaders of Hezbollah to acquire nuclear weapons and threaten the world?

How many must die before we wake up? Thousands? MILLIONS?

When will we learn? Will we EVER learn?

God help us.

crying in the wilderness
Dr. Sowell is a prophet crying in a wilderness full of of politically correct, self-hating fools---called America.

We must awaken and admit that the foundation stones of radical Islam are envy and hatred. These lunatics cannot be reasoned with, they must be destroyed--and for the sake of our children's future, we must use all our resources to find them and destroy them.

We must also awaken to the fact that the traitors in this nation, such as the ACLU and Move-On.org, who defend the darkness of radical Islam, are themselves, a part of the darkness. They are great dangers to our survival and their treason must be dealt with.

The left in America is blinded by the darkness of it's own soul, that knows no reason or logic or truth. When the Muslim fanatics incinerate one or two of our cities in nuclear fire, the left in America will blame George Bush.

It's hard not to think
of Ezekiel 38 and 39 in light of the current geo-political situation viz a viz Iran (Persia) both, acquiring nuclear weapons AND becoming a dominant regional center of Islamic fanaticism, with hatred directed at the last remaining but diminishing centers of Judeo-Christian influences.

There is, however, historical precedent to consider when assessing the situation which we ignore or dismiss at our peril.

Historically, when ancient Israel rejected the Biblical foundations for its existence, a series of cultures even more reprobate than their own were successful in overcoming them and subjugating them.

It seems that Europe, which has rejected its once vibrant Biblical philosophical outlook, already contains the cancer of Islam eating away at its vitals. According to all available population studies, if current demographic conditions continue, by the middle of this century Europe will be essentially Islamic.

It's also hard to not think about the "seven more evil spirits" syndrome of Luke 11: 26 when considering how we have come to where we find ourselves today.

Dr. Sowell:

How often must we be reminded of Edmund Burke's words, "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Capitulation to the bullying tactics of the forces of evil (whoever they may be) only leads to ever increasing levels of violence, and the stakes today are higher than they've ever been. Trouble is, Democrats would rather score political points than to do what is necessary. They, with limited exceptions, are not only doing nothing, they are actively engaged in undermining any progress we have made. Unless we begin to show a united front, we will surely reap a terrible harvest. Hopefully, we're not already too late.

Surprising that Dr Sowell did NOT
mention the LAST IMAM. And the GREAT WAR.

I don't mean to upset anyone, but today 8/22 has significance to Islam - especially Iran. The night ride and all that, so SOME people think Iran's leader is going to do something very stupid today or tonight.

I'm waiting with the same millenia fever of 12/31/99.

Think I'll do my hair.

We DO have to take the sick SOB out someway. But since the libs won't let us 'enlarge' the war...

and we gave up assassinations...

I even at one point thought we could wait the SOB out, but with all that oil...

If we could prove he was behind the kidnappings...

Right on Point
As usual, Dr. Sowell. Someone, soon, needs to say to the Muslims in our midst, "You are either American first, or you are the enemy." CAIR needs to be treated in the same manner a Nazi support organization would have been treated in 1942. We are at war; but no-one in government - including Republicans - is willing to fully commit to this war. We are still making dangerous exceptions (the "nice" Muslims) with active encouragement from the deranged Left, who will oppose anything Bush proposes and to hell with effects on our future. I have just about reached the point where I am willing to believe that anyone who votes Democratic should be considered a traitor to American values, ideals and our basic way of life.

If fear be the master
Actually, this can all be avoided but it will take real men and women with real guts to acheive a winning situation. There is no appeasement for terrorists. You cannot be humanitarian to a rabid animal, it has to be destroyed. Furthermore, it could be done simultaneously in two different locations on the planet and the bastards would never know what hit them. But you can bet the ones left standing would think twice before they continued with their radical fanatacism. Let them know fear.

I do not have a problem not knowing every intimate detail of secret deals happening in the government. This undertaking would have to be a surprise to everyone. Media leakers would be silenced permenantly, if need be. We simply cannot dither any longer. If the US is to remain a super power on this planet, other parts have to be destroyed.

When the eventual smoke settles and the land is once again inhabitable, liberals are welcome to live there. In the arena of kill or be killed...I vote for the kill em all and let Allah sort it out scenario.


Situation Critical
O.K., we can all agree, Iran with nukes is hyper dangerous: but there is already an Islamic nation with nuclear weapons: Pakistan. (Nuclear India keeping them in check?) France may become an Islamic nation. They are up to their eyeballs in nukes. England may follow.
We're already in a world where we have to figure out how we are going to survive nuclear Islam (If that is possible). I don't have answers, I just know it isn't going to be easy and it is going to get harder.
Americans for whom diplomacy and appeasment are first, last and only resorts may see Iran as an opportunity to hone the skills necessary to survive nuclear Islam in a non-millitary option manner.
Big stakes. If they are wrong, Israel is gone. Jewish saying: "when someone says they want to kill you, you should believe them." Iran's looney President has said the goal is to get nuclear weapons and destroy Israel, then the United States. I believe him.

AMEN!
I couldn't agree with Dr. Sowell's comments more. Alas, though... only we conservatives will read these columns, and the truth will never get to those that need to hear it, unless a grass-roots movement (revolution) comes from within. It's time for the American people to finally step up and start shouting loudly, against the idiocy of those that believe we should cut tail and run (for the likes of Cindy Sheehan, etc). She's getting publicity (which hurts us publically, since that's what the Muslims see in our media); Hollywood portrays us as idiots who put our heads in the sand to ignore the truth; and we allow the ACLU and their likes to railroad us into submission. Even the Israelites had to finally step and defend themselves, to escape oppression in Eygpt under Pharoah, and to take the promised land of Canaan from the "palestinians" (easier to lump under a name that everyone knows, than to list ALL the idol-worshippers at the time). When are the Americans who know the truth going to step and say, enough! Say the politically incorrect thing and call a spade a spade! Do something that means business to these fanatics who want to humilate us. I'm proud of Mr. Bush finally calling the kettle black and naming this for what it is... ISLAMOFACISM!

Conrad's comments...
are right on the money! And that is exactly what will happen. Only it won't be the US that will exercise that option... it will be Israel. Israel will nuke Damascus (Syria), and then Iran will become complacent, for a short while. But it will be the only time nuclear weaponry will be used for a while. (If you don't believe me, refer to Isaiah 17:1-5... that is, if you believe Biblical eschatology... I do because the Bible has been 100% accurate in ALL it's predictions... therefore, I, obviously, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.) During the 7-year tribulation that is coming VERY soon, nuclear weaponry will be used again, and I, for one, don't plan on being here to see it happen... I'll be watching from above.

Thank goodness
The those who comment here only comment.

The Liberals beleive in Fairies
For most liberal have a fashionation with fairy's. Fairy tales of Love and Peace, not willing to be responsible for their own actions and progress. Any responsibility starts in the family, Parents, Children and role models that will take charge and lead the young into mature and sound lives. Democrats have a very distinct manner of acting like large children, throwing temper tantrums, when they don't get their way. They also are known for assoicating with terriorists and ill-legal alliens. I really beleive they think a fairy is going to wave a magical wand and all will turn out well. But for responsible people, they know that humans all humans cannot accomplish true love and peace alone. They must have morals and Faith in the true God and must try to act like indivisuals that truely care about their children and their lives. Then and only then can you truely care about others. You cannot give what you don't have. That is a lesson we must all learn. No good comes out of tempertantrums. I see these democrats losing their ability to guide anyone, including themselves.

AS USUAL, DR. SOWELL RIGHT ON
Hummmm. I'm thinking if we had Dr. Mike Adams for President and Dr. Thomas Sowell as Vice-President we would have one hell of a team in the White House.

Adams, the self professed gun lover, shoot from the hip, say it like it is, no nonsense man. And Sowell, softer spoken, a deep thinker, say it like it is, no nonsense man. The ying and yang of politics, working together. Sounds like the kind of people we need to lead our country instead of the lying, backstabbing, self-serving, lilly-livered, pansys we have had in Washington the last 30+ years.

Like I said, one hell of a team.


Watch out for the enemy within
The great historian Toynbee wrote early in the 20th century that the United States' demise would come from within (5th column). He had it partly correct when he stated that America could never be defeated militarily from without. Unfortunately, Toynbee never fathomed suicidal religious fanatical zealots with a cache of suitcase sized nuclear explosives living within our midst worshipping a Moon God created in the mind of a sick religious fanatic some time in the 7th century AD!

Move over Neville Chamberlain and make room for a legion of 21st Century wanabees like you---God Help save this Planet.

Kum Bay Yah, Allah, Kum Bay Yah...
JimP,

Crank up the shuttle for your dyplo-trip to Tehran, Damascus and, oh yes, P’yongyang. Do let us know how successful you are with your sweet invitations to Ahmadinejad, al-Assad and Ahmadinejad’s best buddy de jour, Kim Jong-il, to sing “Kum Bay Yah” with you.

I still have hope.. I guess
Nothing is more conservative than a liberal who's been mugged.
After one of our cities is molten glass the libs will jockey for position as the 'most patriotic, gotta stop this terrorism thing now' party.
They will demand the instant nuking of big chunks of the middle east, they will intern and deport huge numbers of illegal aliens and muslims. They will 'retool' their thought police to go after any non-American sentiment with the vigor of a brand new SS officer. They will turn on their own. Liberal judges will removed in pogroms. Antiwar demonstrations will be the gardens of the press gangs looking for workers to build the southern wall. Peace will rhyme with pedophile.
They will do it not because it is our very survival at stake; they will do it because they think it will make them look good, and finally a democrat will be able to carry his home state in an election.

The New Liberal Rule
There once was a time when girls were girls
There once was a time when boys were boys
But the New Rule is coming fast
Soon it will be to intrusive to ask
For the new rule you see, is quite clear
You can be anything, or anybody or no-one at all
Isn't it nuts to be liberal

To Jerry...
I'm in total agreement. These are the type of men we need in the White House. It would be so refreshing to have truth, integrity, strength of mind and character, plus common sense be the guiding principles of our leaders. Oh, well, nice to fantasize for a minute.

This was by far the best article I've read since joining on to TownHall.com!!!

Time is short
Everyone or almost everyone I’m reading here are pretty much in agreement about the dire straits our great country is in. I believe that deep down inside a great number of citizens are aware of the fact that Islamofacisist will not stop until we have all converted or that we have had our heads chopped off. Neither option is acceptable. What in hell are we doing about it? The answer to that is not much. All the talking over the last few years has only served to escalate the speed at which the end is coming. It’s time to remove the shackles from the people who can do something about it and do it now. While we waste time on diplomacy and going by the book on negotiations our would be executors are gaining strength. I for one would gladly give up the rights our forefathers fought to preserve in order to squash the menace that is before us. It would be a price we need to pay to save our heads and the heads of the future generations of Americans. The fact that this is not clear to everyone is bewildering.

Time is short
Everyone or almost everyone I’m reading here are pretty much in agreement about the dire straits our great country is in. I believe that deep down inside a great number of citizens are aware of the fact that Islamofacisist will not stop until we have all converted or that we have had our heads chopped off. Neither option is acceptable. What in hell are we doing about it? The answer to that is not much. All the talking over the last few years has only served to escalate the speed at which the end is coming. It’s time to remove the shackles from the people who can do something about it and do it now. While we waste time on diplomacy and going by the book on negotiations our would be executors are gaining strength. I for one would gladly give up the rights our forefathers fought to preserve in order to squash the menace that is before us. It would be a price we need to pay to save our heads and the heads of the future generations of Americans. The fact that this is not clear to everyone is bewildering.

Time is short
Everyone or almost everyone I’m reading here are pretty much in agreement about the dire straits our great country is in. I believe that deep down inside a great number of citizens are aware of the fact that Islamofacisist will not stop until we have all converted or that we have had our heads chopped off. Neither option is acceptable. What in hell are we doing about it? The answer to that is not much. All the talking over the last few years has only served to escalate the speed at which the end is coming. It’s time to remove the shackles from the people who can do something about it and do it now. While we waste time on diplomacy and going by the book on negotiations our would be executors are gaining strength. I for one would gladly give up the rights our forefathers fought to preserve in order to squash the menace that is before us. It would be a price we need to pay to save our heads and the heads of the future generations of Americans. The fact that this is not clear to everyone is bewildering.

The Administration Is Inconsistent
I agree with Dr. Sowell's assesment, however it is equally scary that the administration's position on terror is inconsistent.

Why does the administration support the latest UN cease-fire in Southern Lebanon? The Israelis will for sure be the first target of a nuclear Iran, and Hizballah will be the agent to deliver a strike. It is insane to hold back the Israelis.

Unfortunately, the leadership in Israel consists of left-leaning appeasers, and they are unsure of their response towards Hizballah and Hamas. Therefore, the administration should be demanding the Israeli government to take an intensely aggressive offensive against Hizballah.

I fear the worst for us, because I question the administrations resovle due to their negative experience in Iraq.

When are they going to chime in?
What is going on here? Thomas Sowell has spelled things out in this article as clearly as anyone could. As I write there are 37 comments listed. Not a peep so far from the Townhall leftists.

Could it be possible that they have nothing to say? Has Dr. Sowell described the reality we face so well that they can not counter it with their usual asinine talking points?

This article makes me think that America may not survive. That has certainly been said before, but this nation is in fact surrounded by enemies who want America destroyed. Even more ominous is the presence inside our borders of citizens who also hate America.


The Muslim nuts state frankly that they want us all dead. The Europeans have nurtured envy of America since WWII. As others have pointed out, Europe will be Muslim before too long. They allowed their leftist ideology to destroy them. Today they are worthless. They would love to see America defeated and humiliated.


I agree that when Europe became secularist it was the beginning of the end for them. Now America is under attack by the secularists and the leftists who are, no matter what they say, traitors.


I love Townhall because it provides a forum for people who express the same concerns that I feel about what is happening in today's world. There is still one question that needs to be answered. What do we do about all of this? I confess, I don't have the answer.

Whatever happens, I want to thank the conservatives on Townhall for sharing their thoughts and their knowledge. It helps to know that there are still real people out there. I am grateful for that.

Relax...
Isreal is going to take care of this little problem in Iran for us. Think about it. They've already proven they'll do what they have to do to protect themselves (bombing Iraq's nuclear facilities). Does anyone seriously think they're going to allow Iran to get to the point of building a fully functional nuclear warhead? Knowing that warhead will detonate somewhere in Israel within a week? Do you think they're going to give a rat's ass what the UN says they ought to do? NO! They are going to go into Iran and bomb the f*** out of every location that gives off the slightest bit of radiation. The rest of the world will immmediately condemn Israel, and the US will join in. But everyone is going to say to themselves, behind closed doors, "Phew, thank God Israel took care of that for us."

Okay, so we're on our own with regard to North Korea. Israel doesn't have a dog in that fight, so they're not likely going to do anything about it. But they will set, in Iran, the example that we should follow, in NK. And, just like Israel, we're going to have to accept the fact that the UN isn't going to like it. Screw the UN. We should withdraw our membership anyway. They've never done a damn thing for us, and in fact actively seek to handcuff us in matters of our own national defense. Now they even want to overturn our Second Amendment. It's not good enough for them to dictate foreign policy to us. They want to dictate domestic policy as well. Screw 'em.

Regards,
Trevor

Who is he talking about?
Sowell writes: Hitler was able to rouse similar resentments and fanaticism in Germany under conditions not nearly as dire as those in most Middle East countries today. The proof of similar demagogic success in the Middle East is all around.

Phylo: Sowell is doing a pretty good job of rousing "similar sentiments and fanaticism" in the Unisted States. The proof is all over this web site.

Sowell said: What kind of people provide a market for videotaped beheadings of innocent hostages? What kind of people would throw an old man in a wheelchair off a cruise liner into the sea, simply because he was Jewish? What kind of people would fly planes into buildings to vent their hate at the cost of their own lives?

Phylo: What kind of people capture and rape and kill little beauty queens? What kind of people rape a fourteen year old girl and then gun down the whole village in a drunken rampage and then try to cover it all up (Marines in Haditha). What kind of people go around overthrowing domcratically elected governments because they want to be able to exploit that country's resources? (Middle East, South America) What kind of people support brutal dictatorial regimes simply because it's in their economic interests? (Saudi Arabia).

And you people call yourselves Christian. I don't think you have the faintest idea of what Jesus would do, or what he would think about this situation. He would be working for peace. He wouldn't hate Muslims.

Don't let yourselves get carried away with fear. As of right now, there is no existential threat to the United States coming from Islam. If you ask me, this is nothing but politics. The Republicans are stirring up fear because fear drives people to the voting booth. It's all an attempt to avoid the Democrats getting supeana power and exposing the lies and the corruption of the last six years.

Phylo out.


Don't worry Phylo..
You can hide behind me when they come here.
All I ask is that you learn how to reload for me.

Well said!
We are facing an enemy that seeks nothing more than our total destruction, and the faster we realize it and deal with it the better off we'll be. BrianR has a great post on this at his blog...check it out and see what you think.

So Clear...
I cannot fathom why so many do not see that the lack of unity by our government officials over the last 5 years has cost us our credibility in the world "arena".
It has become clear that the nuisance of America has become only that, a nuisance, not a threat of action for inaction. As we have been characterized by these mindless buffoons, we are but a "barking dog" and will be treated as such.
It will take clear and decisive as well as consistent action now and in the future to curb these knuckleheads. Nothing more, nothing less than the fortitude to carry through will pull us from the brink.

Point of No Return ?
Thomas Sowell is not Chicken Little.

But, always we must be on the alert for the Fox.

CEF


I propose a question?
Would electing a Democrat for president and giving them back the Congress actually be a good thing?

If the Dems/Left get the power they so cravingly want back, will they really risk showing their hand? If they do as I suspect they will. Then they are done once and for all. They will never again get into office. Which is a good thing. Maybe we can have another viable party.
Conservative Party anyone?

I believe that they will at last be exposed for what they truly are. Self-loathing Blame America first haters! They will go back to their money for the few, none for the troops and weapons VietNam war footing. Just listen to Howard Dean. He said and I'm paraphrasing…"One months worth of money spent in Iraq could have fixed the Hurricane Katrina damage”. Now, Howard, you don't mean that you want our troops to not get the ammo and supplies they need right? You mean the money spent on the Iraqi people right? Right?

The, “Hey look over there that guy needs a check and maybe he will vote for me mentality” that still plagues our system should wake everyone up to what is important to the Left and in some cases the Right (think border security). It certainly isn’t protecting mine or your families. In my view at least Bush has a plan/balls to do something.

Everything I have hear from the Left here and elsewhere is that. “They AIN’T Getting It!!!” We are in a fight for our lives people. And all I hear is the low din off in the distance of...

A One and A Two...
KUMBAYA my lord KUMBAYA
now all those on the right
KUMBAYA my Lord KUMBAYA.
Now just those in the middle...

I can only think of one BIG advantage letting them back in power would give us in this fight against terrorism. Sure it's a short term thing but an advantage none the less.

I am betting a dollar to a donut that the NYT /MSM would not expose their terrorist programs? They wouldn’t because Bush/Rove/Cheney/Haliburton arent in charge. And we know how much they hate them.

And that lack of exposure my fellow Americans would be a good thing right???


By The Way ......
....North Korea makes Iran only about 12 hours away from being a nuclear power (if they have not already done so).
Persia (Iran) is a great army from the east.
China & Russia (Iranian oil dependant countries) are great armies from the north (or thereabout).
The United States is not mentioned in any Biblical eschatology.
Allah and Jehovah are, by definition, not the same God (thanks for reminding us Handicapper I).
Iran and all the muslims hate us not mainly for our freedoms and wealth, they hate us (the west) because they think we are Godless and totally immoral(note most beliefs of the liberal mind sets --e.g.-- evolution which requires not believing in God and abortion which is murder) and the MSM reinforces that every day.
Do we have a chance? Maybe! Dr. Sowell has given good --no, great-- council, but will the powers that be in this country even see, let alone heed this council, is what addresses the maybe above. It would seem that our task is to make sure it is at the very least seen!!!

We aren't dealing with Hitler-clones!
The measure of a civilization is not to observe how they treat those with whom they disagree, but how they treat each other.

Adolf Hitler was an evil man who butchered those he saw as his enemy, but his own people (Aryans -- at least that is who he SAW as "his own men") were treated with at least some level of respect.

On the other hand, just look how the Arabian, Persian, and Northern African Muslem world treat their own people. If a teenage girl is brutally raped, their answer is NOT to hunt down and prosecute the monster who raped her, but instead to torture and/or murder that child. If a girl accidentally tears her burkah on a nail and shows even 1/10th of a millimeter of skin, that girl is brutally beaten.

We aren't dealing with rational human beings. We're dealing with an evil that makes Hitler look like the Virgin Mary. Forget the evil they bring to other peoples, these people treat each other with such disrespect for life that we've ALREADY crossed the point of no return.

The ONLY thing that prevents these monsters from LITTERALLY destroying everything on this planet is lack of ability to do so. If these monsters are allowed to to obtain a nuclear arsenal, then Armageddon WILL have come.

Phylo
You are one sick SOB. You take killings of children by a deranged person, that everyone in the US condems, with the killing of thousands that are cheered by everyone in the Middle East. What part of, "We will kill all infidels unless they convert to Islam." don't you understand?

"There is no existential threat to the US coming from Islam." Oh, I am glad to know that. I thought the World Trade Center bombing and then the planes crashing into them were Republicans doing that to be able to point their fingers at those nice Muslims. Look at all of the mass killings by the Muslims and the cheering that went on after these events in the last 30 years. Yeah, it was the Republicans that did all of those things just so they could get to power. Of course, you will probably try to twist this in some cruel way to say we are the bad guys and Muslims are just nice people that are misunderstood.

I propose a question?
Would electing a Democrat for president and giving them back the Congress actually be a good thing?

If the Dems/Left get the power they so cravingly want back, will they really risk showing their hand? If they do as I suspect they will. Then they are done once and for all. They will never again get into office. Which is a good thing. Maybe we can have another viable party.
Conservative Party anyone?

I believe that they will at last be exposed for what they truly are. Self-loathing Blame America first haters! They will go back to their money for the few, none for the troops and weapons VietNam war footing. Just listen to Howard Dean. He said and I'm paraphrasing…"One months worth of money spent in Iraq could have fixed the Hurricane Katrina damage”. Now, Howard, you don't mean that you want our troops to not get the ammo and supplies they need right? You mean the money spent on the Iraqi people right? Right?

The, “Hey look over there that guy needs a check and maybe he will vote for me mentality” that still plagues our system should wake everyone up to what is important to the Left and in some cases the Right (think border security). It certainly isn’t protecting mine or your families. In my view at least Bush has a plan/balls to do something.

Everything I have hear from the Left here and elsewhere is that. “They AIN’T Getting It!!!” We are in a fight for our lives people. And all I hear is the low din off in the distance of...

A One and A Two...
KUMBAYA my lord KUMBAYA
now all those on the right
KUMBAYA my Lord KUMBAYA.
Now just those in the middle...

I can only think of one BIG advantage letting them back in power would give us in this fight against terrorism. Sure it's a short term thing but an advantage none the less.

I am betting a dollar to a donut that the NYT /MSM would not expose their terrorist programs? They wouldn’t because Bush/Rove/Cheney/Haliburton arent in charge. And we know how much they hate them.

And that lack of exposure my fellow Americans would be a good thing right???


Phylo
As usual, you demonstrate why leftists should LITTERALLY be BANNED from any leadership position.

You're comparing DEVIANTS in the United States to government-sanctioned mainstream in Iran? The difference between the US and Iran is the mosters who commit those rapes are tossed in prison. In Iran, if the victem survives, she is tortured and murdered and the rapist is heralded.

Phylo:
I hope you own a gun or two, or have a friend who does who's willing to protect you. Because if the fit hits the shan, and you're known in your neighborhood for the kind of views you express here, I think you have a life expectancy about equal to a mayfly.

juvenile games
I've never used this term before, but this Phylo character truly is a "kool-aid drinker". There is never an original thought, just the talking points of the looney left.

The "Phylo out" thing shows that this is all just a juvenile game to her/him/it, motivated by a need for some perverse kind of attention.

The fact that he/she/it would play this game concerning such a critical issue, shows how disconnected and dangerous the looney left really is.

Phylo
As usual, you demonstrate why leftists should LITTERALLY be BANNED from any leadership position.

You're comparing DEVIANTS in the United States to government-sanctioned mainstream in Iran? The difference between the US and Iran is the mosters who commit those rapes are tossed in prison. In Iran, if the victem survives, she is tortured and murdered and the rapist is heralded.

we're all gonna die
Let's first kill all the liberals, including the small number (very small I hope) who might be serving in the Armed forces. Then we can kill all the moderates. Then we can kill all the libertarians, (too individualistic). Next we kill all the squishy cons. (you know who you are).

Next we can kill all the non Christians. You're either with us are against us.

Incidently I'm not a liberal so I'm safe (whew !).

For sure, then, we'll be completely united and we can go after every country thats not in lockstep behind us.

And to think we can do this and none of us on this board will have to lift a finger to carry out the plan. What a great country!

always Right: you're Wrong
No one's saying that at all. What we (or at least I, as I only speak for myself) are saying is that if an Iranian-made nuke levels a major city in this country, you are going to see blood running in the streets. There are going to very likely be mobs seeking vengeance, and outspoken libs are going to be the most convenient and available targets, among other groups, in the short run.

I don't think anyone likes the idea. However, human nature is simply what it is, and I, at least, try to live in the real world.

islamic terrorists
Unfortunately, the democrates, UN, and all the appeasers in the world (especially France)will not get the message until some muslim drops a nuke on some western country.

The answer is to eliminate the problem now by getting on the offense.

Why
What we are all saying here begs the question why?

Why do we have so many opponents, both within and without our country? Why do our liberals together with home grown and foreign Muslim populations have a death wish, like the suicide bombers? Why do we allow the courts and the ACLU to pollute our judicial system and stretch the truth and the Constitution until they almost break? Why do we allow tax dollars to be spent supporting the ACLU and its subversive agenda? Why do we constantly post the truth in these forums, yet nothing changes...are we living in a bubble world...do the Dems and Liberals ever read anything not produced by their own grist mills and/or the liberal media? Why do they never seek the truth, or why do they forever repeat the Democrat mantra and the "slogan for the day?" Why do they believe that their quest to regain power in this country is worth the destruction of us all to achieve it?

I am no longer young, and I might not be around to view our destruction unless things change drastically, but I am in awesome fear for my children and grandchildren...they all seem so apolitical. Will they even recognize what is happening around us when we are not around to remind them?

Quelle dommage. C'est la vie?

Phylo:
Ok I understand your premise.
But think man...shouldn't we be "thinking" that we need to be together to fight this war?

A little national unity goes along way to help support the moral of the guys in harms way that are protecting our butts.

To equate that to Nazism is just insane.

If we and our allies showed a united front to this threat. Maybe our guys and gals in uniforms job might be a little easier? But to constantly harp on the Nationalism thing is wearing a little thin don't you think?

We are not Germans circa 1930. We are a different type of people. We, for the most part are united. The left just sticks it out there because they hate GW. I don't believe you hate your country. Do you? We are a melting pot society which gives us a little bit better perspective on the world and our place in it. Each voice counts. But right now no matter what the pols say.
The people in the country know what is at stack and because we strongly disagree with your views doesn't mean we are "walking goosestep" with the administration. Hell if I had my way I'd warn the Imams that they better bring their "religion" into the 21st century or I'd bomb MECCA.

We just want to win this war. And wouldn't it help if we could all be on the same page? At least for the duration?

In Nazi Germany you wouldn't have gotten Hitler out of office. Soon GW will leave office and everyone on the left can catch their collective breathes. The system works lo-and-behold.

But just remember when he leaves office this war probably won't be over.

And as far a Christianity goes...not being religious myself. I think the thing is, Your value system the Christian value system isn't going to matter if we are all dead.


To all.
Sorry about my original post, posting twice. Not quite sure how that happened?






SORRY... BUT TRUE
Not even having to read in-between the lines, there appears to be only one solution, and... we all know what that solution is... Time and diplomacy is a luxury the United States no longer has. Any other suggestions? If so please visit http://www.headsneedtoroll.org and post your thoughts.
Heads Need To Roll

Yes, yes
We are fast approaching the point of no return. I thought we passed it when Dr. Sowell could no longer operate the shower in his hotel room. To all you avid supporters of Dr. Sowell who find his writings flawless, the end is near. Please send me all your assets as you will no longer need them. Then go to your beds and wait for the rapture. Rest assured that your names are on the list of glory. For the few who harbor even the slightest doubt that Sowell is 100% correct in his analysis, you too may rest assured. History is replete with points of no return and after each one; the world was never the same. Eternal vigilance has been and always will be the price of survival. Some people meet the future with courage, some with faith and others through rose colored ignorance.

Just ask the libs....
....who would the enemy(terrorist) vote for?

Yes, yes
We are fast approaching the point of no return. I thought we passed it when Dr. Sowell could no longer operate the shower in his hotel room. To all you avid supporters of Dr. Sowell who find his writings flawless, the end is near. Please send me all your assets as you will no longer need them. Then go to your beds and wait for the rapture. Rest assured that your names are on the list of glory. For the few who harbor even the slightest doubt that Sowell is 100% correct in his analysis, you too may rest assured. History is replete with points of no return and after each one; the world was never the same. Eternal vigilance has been and always will be the price of survival. Some people meet the future with courage, some with faith and others through rose colored ignorance.

Phylo's best question yet
Phylo: "What kind of people capture and rape and kill little beauty queens?"

Democratic presidential candidates.

Speaking of Points of No Return
Check out C.S. Lewis's THE LAST BATTLE -- your local library should have it. Lewis is best known as one of the foremost Christian apologist of the 20th century -- this book, though it's part of the Narnia series, seems chillingly prophetic.

For Whom the Bell Tolls
This is a masterpiece by Dr Sowell. When I listen to the media take on current events, I doubt my sanity, but this restores my equilibrium.
The behavior of the left and their minions in the press assumes that we are fighting a war for no good reason. I have given up on trying to rationalize their thought process, but my greatest fear is that they will somehow regain power in the US. They would first surrender to the terrorists and then raise taxes to finance their collectivist pursuits. FEAR THE LEFT, NOT THE TERRORISTS.

Yes,Yes,Yes
MikeR--As usual, your common sense overpowers modern liberal nonsense. Don't back off, we all need to hear a voice like yours.

War w Iran in '07, or 25 US Cities Nuked
I'm hoping BUSH is just going through the diplomatic hoops for posterity while WAITING for our NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, and plans on CHANGING IRAN'S REGIME in early '07.

That could lead to such HYSTERIA from DEMOCRATS that BUSH RESIGNS, and enjoys watching their reaction to CHENEY as PRESIDENT. Look for CONDI to become V. P.


If we DON'T do Iran in '07, LOOK for IRAN to NUKE roughly 25 U. S. CITIES around 2011, using MISSILES LAUNCHED from FREIGHTERS. Could happen CHRISTMAS MORNING (the long night gives maximum cover while setting up the missile launchers).

The Great Struggle Is Upon Us
However politically incorrect it is to say it, the West will not really appreciate the extent of the danager until a mushroom cloud, or a thoroughly horrendous chemical/biological agent literally takes out a city like New York, London or Paris and the millions living in them. And then, it will be a new Hundred Years War. The sad aspect of that war is that the EU will choose to accomodate rather than fight - all of the "progressive" parties in the EU would rather their youth go to club Med than to the equivalent of Marine Corps Basic Training. Continental european civilization as we know it will become another chapter in the history books.

Who will fight? The countries that still have the capacity to physically isolate themselves from any kind of mass Islamic migration AND have socities not entirely corrupted with politically correct defeatism. That means the United States, Australia, Great Britain. Canada will be dragged kicking and screaming when the alternative becomes all to obvious on the other side of the Atlantic. Note these are all, effectively, island nations. Russia might join in - they are more inclined to fight than surrender but for the first time in eight hundred years, Russia's military will be outnumbered. China and Japan? Probably sit it out as long as possible - maybe come to an accomodation between themselves and fill the power vacuum left behind as the U.S. gets sucked into a century of fighting 1.1 billion Muslims.

threats
Wake. The Christ died. That was the point. He turned the other cheek.


The greatest threat to our survival is self-imolation. All the name calling, the labling of others who think differently.

America was forged thru radicalism. A progressive (Lincoln) helped conserve the union.


Progressives ended slavery, women as property, gave the Irish the right to live and work anywhere in the US, ended NO JEWS need apply, and on and on and on.

Annual leave, sick leave, overtime, 40 hr. work week, pensions, women in leadership positions,
Jackie Robinson, Tiger Woods, Thomas Sowell, Condi Rice, Kay Hutchinson, Elizabeth Dole....,
none of it possible without, hold your nose, those stinking liberals.

Serious threats, serious times, we have to unite.

I know we have serious differences, but reading this board and Daily Kos is grounds for weeping.

Concessions for Peace?
There should be concessions for peace, Arab concessions. There should be land for Peace, Arab land. Since when are winners of wars against aggressor nations not permitted to occupy lands won in those wars and demand the terms for peace. Since the formation of Israel. The rules for Israel are different than the rules for all other nations. If we followed the rules applied to Israel the US would have ceded Japan California for losing a war of aggression.

Response to skier
Skier said: You are one sick SOB. You take killings of children by a deranged person, that everyone in the US condems, with the killing of thousands that are cheered by everyone in the Middle East. What part of, "We will kill all infidels unless they convert to Islam." don't you understand?

Phylo: I was mimicking Sowells argument in an attempt to show how absurd it is. He was taking a few examples of extrem Muslims and then painting the whole Muslim world with the same broad brush.

You're simply wrong if you think that EVERYONE in the Middle East cheers the vile actions of the extremists. Your kind of thinking is the predecessor to genocide. I get the feeling that most of the people on this site would favor killing all the Muslims, then they'll set their sites on the liberals in this country. How does that make you better than them?

Phylo out.

Phylo
What color are your glasses? What good are assets in a world without freedom? Do you really beieve the Islamists will spare you for being on their side?

You somehow confuse provoking anger through taunting with provoking thought through thoughtful discourse. You, Lydia and Tanabear seem to enjoy the same baiting tactics with about the same intellectual firepower behind it. Is this your idea of a reasoned response to the arguement presented by Dr. Sowell? Do you really think this forum will take you seriously given the caliber of your posts?

Personally, I think this will be my last response to you. Your lack of intellect and childish bomb throwing has become boring. I invite my fellow posters to join me in not giving these intellectual lightweights the satisfaction of our further attention. If only they would contribute something of substance, but they never do.

Response to Scottie
Scottie writes: What color are your glasses? What good are assets in a world without freedom? Do you really beieve the Islamists will spare you for being on their side?

Phylo: I don't wear glasses. I'm not worried about Islamo radicals taking away our freedom as much as I am of Conservatives over-reacting to a fairly minimal threat. Nor am I worried about Islamists killing me. They don't have the capability to take over this country. Nor am I "on their side".

Scottie wrote: You somehow confuse provoking anger through taunting with provoking thought through thoughtful discourse. You, Lydia and Tanabear seem to enjoy the same baiting tactics with about the same intellectual firepower behind it. Is this your idea of a reasoned response to the arguement presented by Dr. Sowell? Do you really think this forum will take you seriously given the caliber of your posts?

SPhylo: Showing another person's argument to be absurd is not taunting. It's a long held method of formal argument. Ever hear of Socrates?

Scottie writes: Personally, I think this will be my last response to you. Your lack of intellect and childish bomb throwing has become boring. I invite my fellow posters to join me in not giving these intellectual lightweights the satisfaction of our further attention. If only they would contribute something of substance, but they never do.

Phylo: Where's your substance? All you've done here is call me names.

You want substance? Go check out the thread under Kevin McCullough's piece "Why We Fight." I guarantee it'll be more substance than a lightweight like you can handle.

Phylo out.


the great enabler
The threat that America faces from Muslim fanatics is multipied by the curse, that is, modern liberalism in America. The left is the "great enabler" of terrorism.

Modern liberalism is a gross perversion of classic liberalism. Comparing classic liberalism to modern liberalism is like comparing Thomas Jefferson to William Jefferson Clinton. It is like comparing Benjamin Franklin to Barney Frank. It is like comparing John Kennedy to Ted Kennedy.

Modern liberalism is a disease and common sense is the cure. Modern liberalism is a threat to our very existence, and must be dealt with as such.

The major problem is attitude
The major problem in the struggle with fanatics is THEIR ability to disregard everything that civilization has acquired thru centuries (rules of condauct, morals, etc) and OUR respect to the same. Without these little "grains of civilization" it is permissible for THEIR mothers to proudly prepare their children to be homicide bombers. Permissible? - Hah - it is a VIRTUE in THEIR world. On OUR side the boundaries of morals will never permit the same, thus limiting OUR response to "understanding", "peaceful negotiations", "land for peace", and any other civilized attempt to appease, placate, etc. Until and unless civilization understands that plague can be stopped by extermination of infected rats, it is doomed. Unfortunately, as soon as it understands and does something about it, it will cease to be civilized.

"Better Red than dead" - last time appeasement almost won... In these times fanatics will not hesitate to nuke their own, so conversion will be useless. End of civilization as we know it?


Phylo
I've never responded to any of your posts before, but your last comment stands ina league of its own.

"Don't let yourselves get carried away with fear. As of right now, there is no existential threat to the United States coming from Islam. If you ask me, this is nothing but politics. The Republicans are stirring up fear because fear drives people to the voting booth. It's all an attempt to avoid the Democrats getting supeana power and exposing the lies and the corruption of the last six years."

This has to be some of the most politically paranoid drivel I've ever read. Really, youneed to get out of "The Daily Kos" and Michael Moore sites and ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS!! You might notice that Iranian leader has twice advocated that Israel should be "wiped off the map". This is the same country trying to build fission weapons...you know, NUKES! Oh yeah, Iranian observers were present in North Korea for those ballistic missile tests.
Think they might buy one of the showroom models? Don't bother protesting that a threat to Israel means nothing to us. The Iranians have been VERY consistant in identifying Israel and America as enemies, and has even floated the bizarre notion that Israeli leaders have actually taken over the United States. This is the same, lovable bunch that has brought us "The Protocals Of The Eldars Of Zion", a vitriolic and paranoid, rascist rant (now an epic mini-series!) that accuses Jews of controling governments, financial markets and even (no kidding!) the laws of physics. Jews are predicted to somehow extinguish "many stars" and galaxies that "Allah" has hung in the sky.
Ahmadinejad is more then a religious fanatic, he's a loon. He wants to usher in a new age of Islamic prosperity and transcendence by exterminating every Jew. Christians, Hindus and Buddhists who survive to see his Brave New Nightmare, would live at the plesure and sufferance of the Caliphate. The last time that someone stirred this particular pot of rascist paranoia, he put it all in a book titled "Mein Kampf". His name was Adolf Hitler. Even you should have heard of him, Phylo. Nobody in this country took him seriously. We didn't think he was a threat. We were dead wrong.
Ahmadinejad is feeding his eager populace the same witches brew of Jewish conspiracies, national entitlement, revenge for humiliation and restoration of mythic past glory. This is the same dangerous and malignant Idealogy we saw in 1935, only it is now wedded to fanatical religious certainty. This is no time for repeating historical mistakes. We have seen his type before, and 50 MILLION PEOPLE DIED AS A RESULT! Denial is a luxury we can ill afford.

the point of no return
This author's shrew assessment of the world situation fills me with forboding. However, if anybody has the answers to what our response should be...I'd love to hear.

Phylo
I've never responded to any of your posts before, but your last comment stands ina league of its own.

"Don't let yourselves get carried away with fear. As of right now, there is no existential threat to the United States coming from Islam. If you ask me, this is nothing but politics. The Republicans are stirring up fear because fear drives people to the voting booth. It's all an attempt to avoid the Democrats getting supeana power and exposing the lies and the corruption of the last six years."

This has to be some of the most politically paranoid drivel I've ever read. Really, youneed to get out of "The Daily Kos" and Michael Moore sites and ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS!! You might notice that Iranian leader has twice advocated that Israel should be "wiped off the map". This is the same country trying to build fission weapons...you know, NUKES! Oh yeah, Iranian observers were present in North Korea for those ballistic missile tests.
Think they might buy one of the showroom models? Don't bother protesting that a threat to Israel means nothing to us. The Iranians have been VERY consistant in identifying Israel and America as enemies, and has even floated the bizarre notion that Israeli leaders have actually taken over the United States. This is the same, lovable bunch that has brought us "The Protocals Of The Eldars Of Zion", a vitriolic and paranoid, rascist rant (now an epic mini-series!) that accuses Jews of controling governments, financial markets and even (no kidding!) the laws of physics. Jews are predicted to somehow extinguish "many stars" and galaxies that "Allah" has hung in the sky.
Ahmadinejad is more then a religious fanatic, he's a loon. He wants to usher in a new age of Islamic prosperity and transcendence by exterminating every Jew. Christians, Hindus and Buddhists who survive to see his Brave New Nightmare, would live at the plesure and sufferance of the Caliphate. The last time that someone stirred this particular pot of rascist paranoia, he put it all in a book titled "Mein Kampf". His name was Adolf Hitler. Even you should have heard of him, Phylo. Nobody in this country took him seriously. We didn't think he was a threat. We were dead wrong.
Ahmadinejad is feeding his eager populace the same witches brew of Jewish conspiracies, national entitlement, revenge for humiliation and restoration of mythic past glory. This is the same dangerous and malignant Idealogy we saw in 1935, only it is now wedded to fanatical religious certainty. This is no time for repeating historical mistakes. We have seen his type before, and 50 MILLION PEOPLE DIED AS A RESULT! Denial is a luxury we can ill afford.

Phylo
I've never responded to any of your posts before, but your last comment stands ina league of its own.

"Don't let yourselves get carried away with fear. As of right now, there is no existential threat to the United States coming from Islam. If you ask me, this is nothing but politics. The Republicans are stirring up fear because fear drives people to the voting booth. It's all an attempt to avoid the Democrats getting supeana power and exposing the lies and the corruption of the last six years."

This has to be some of the most politically paranoid drivel I've ever read. Really, youneed to get out of "The Daily Kos" and Michael Moore sites and ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS!! You might notice that Iranian leader has twice advocated that Israel should be "wiped off the map". This is the same country trying to build fission weapons...you know, NUKES! Oh yeah, Iranian observers were present in North Korea for those ballistic missile tests.
Think they might buy one of the showroom models? Don't bother protesting that a threat to Israel means nothing to us. The Iranians have been VERY consistant in identifying Israel and America as enemies, and has even floated the bizarre notion that Israeli leaders have actually taken over the United States. This is the same, lovable bunch that has brought us "The Protocals Of The Eldars Of Zion", a vitriolic and paranoid, rascist rant (now an epic mini-series!) that accuses Jews of controling governments, financial markets and even (no kidding!) the laws of physics. Jews are predicted to somehow extinguish "many stars" and galaxies that "Allah" has hung in the sky.
Ahmadinejad is more then a religious fanatic, he's a loon. He wants to usher in a new age of Islamic prosperity and transcendence by exterminating every Jew. Christians, Hindus and Buddhists who survive to see his Brave New Nightmare, would live at the plesure and sufferance of the Caliphate. The last time that someone stirred this particular pot of rascist paranoia, he put it all in a book titled "Mein Kampf". His name was Adolf Hitler. Even you should have heard of him, Phylo. Nobody in this country took him seriously. We didn't think he was a threat. We were dead wrong.
Ahmadinejad is feeding his eager populace the same witches brew of Jewish conspiracies, national entitlement, revenge for humiliation and restoration of mythic past glory. This is the same dangerous and malignant Idealogy we saw in 1935, only it is now wedded to fanatical religious certainty. This is no time for repeating historical mistakes. We have seen his type before, and 50 MILLION PEOPLE DIED AS A RESULT! Denial is a luxury we can ill afford.

I don't know why...
my post keeps getting repeated. Strange.

Always Right Is Wrong
Christ didn’t die. That’s the whole point of Christianity. The world is powerless against the Divine.

America was not forged by radicals who wanted to completely destroy the existing society as was tried in France in 1789; it was forged by classical liberals who wanted to preserve their right to govern themselves instead of letting it be arrogated by the British Crown.

Lincoln did not “conserve” the Union. His electoral victory in 1860 destroyed the Union of the Founders and replaced it with a prison of states. There was still a Union, but it wasn’t the one that was established in 1776.

“Progressive” is simply a code-word for Communist. Communism, as well as any other form of socialism, is not progressive. It is regressive.

The Fundamental Islamic Misunderstanding
Islam is a religion that promises its adherents worldly power; this is one of the principal differences between it and other religions. In the Middle Ages Islamic religious authorities subordinated scientific inquiry to religion, causing Islamic civilization to stagnate right before the Renaissance and Protestant Reformation put the West on the track to becoming an advanced civilization.

Muslims simply don’t understand that it is their own religion, as currently interpreted, that has stripped them of power against the West. They will remain backwards until they find a way to reconcile Islam with the modern world.

Hopeless
Re-read your post ark,

Very Christ like

Iran has a right to nukes.
People seem to forget two things.

Iran, as a sovereign nation, has a right to pursue and build nuclear weapons.

We, as a sovereign nation, have a right to defend ourselves and shoot first.

Iran has a right to nukes.
People seem to forget two things.

Iran, as a sovereign nation, has a right to pursue and build nuclear weapons.

We, as a sovereign nation, have a right to defend ourselves and shoot first.

Progressive?
Progressive toward what? Progress is a status toward something. What is it you are progressing toward? Peace? Equality of Outcomes? Arresting all capitalists and throwing them in jail for exploiting the "people who do the work"?

Tell us how you would negotiate with these people? What words would you use? What would you offer them to have peace (or absence of conflict)? What unintended consequences would you mitigate? Your failure to answer these questions in lieu of blaming Bush for everything is getting old.

The Left will never get it
Even if Iran does get a nuke, and somehow detonate it (1st Israel, the us), the left would still blame America, we brought this on ourselves because of our imperialist, U.S. is the best, screw the rest attitude.

Whenever I try to reason with these people, all I ever get is, "well, Christians are just as bad", these people have no moral compass.

And to top it off they try to explain the philosophy of Jesus to me, even though they probably haven't attended church in years, much less studied the bible.

celtic-dragon
Good post celt! and right on with the info.
Your wasting your time trying to reason with phylo though. It's mind is not of this earth!

Yes since Townhall worked on the site last night. Many posts have been doubled and tripled. One was posted five times.It's the same on all the columns. And seems to be random. Hope Townhall is aware of the problem.

Iran has a right to nukes.
People seem to forget two things.

Iran, as a sovereign nation, has a right to pursue and build nuclear weapons.

We, as a sovereign nation, have a right to defend ourselves and shoot first.

Phylo
`You are right, I should not have said all Muslims. There are probably a few that don't approve but do you ever hear from them? I have seen it said that 10% of the Muslim population is radical. There are 1 billion of them which would mean there are 100 million that are radical and want to kill us.

After 9/11 they showed thousands of Muslims in the streets in several countries cheering about the death and destruction caused by these radicals. How about the mother of one of these suicide bombers who said she was grateful that he blew himself up and only wish she had had more sons so they could also sacrifice themselves? I believe she had three sons who committed suicide by bombing innocent people. What do you say about these people?


Crazy but not stupid
Everyone here would agree that if a nuclear bomb was detonated anywhere in the US, and we could reasonably link it to Iran, we wouldn't hesitate to level Tehran and probably the rest of the country. Don't you think the Ayatollah's know this as well? Do you think they would be stupid enough to hand over one of these weapons to terrorists when they know that they would would be the ones to suffer?

camanintx
Actually, yes. I do think they would be "stupid enough" to detonate one or more weapons either here or in Eurasia. Religious certainty can make people do any number of dubious things and in this case, Mr. Ahmadinejad has expressed his belief in the necessity for an Apocalyps to bring about the next Golden Age of Islamic Triumphalism. He has expressly called for the eradication of Israel and all Jews by extension. Do you think it mere coiincidence that he is guiding his country towards devlopment and possesion of nuclear weaponry and long range ballistic missiles? He hasn't said anything about deterring exterior agression. He has said quite a bit about pursuing regional hegemony and his belief that Jews are evil plotters who faked the holocaust and were responsible for 9/11. The last national leader who subscribed to bizarre theiries of Jewish conspiracies and talked about extermination was Hitler. Nobody believed he was serious either, until we saw Treblinka, Buchenwald, Dachau and Auschwitz. Yes, I believe Ahmadinejad is just that stupid.

Point of some return.
What we need now is BiBi Netanyahu to take up the lead in Israel and do what we all know must be done, however distasteful it may be..

I fear a dark time is headed our way..

Maybe Cindy Sheehan can broker a deal with the Iranofascists before they hoist her up on a crane..

EEEK!
I meant to say "theories". $#@@#^%!!! no spell check...lol

response to celtic-dragon
celtic-dragon said: Ahmadinejad is more then a religious fanatic, he's a loon. He wants to usher in a new age of Islamic prosperity and transcendence by exterminating every Jew. Christians, Hindus and Buddhists who survive to see his Brave New Nightmare, would live at the plesure and sufferance of the Caliphate.

Phylo: One problem: He doesn't have ANYWHERE NEAR the capacity to accomplish his goal. And if he even began such an attempt his country would be turned to glass. Get a grip.

celtic-dragon wrote: Ahmadinejad is feeding his eager populace the same witches brew of Jewish conspiracies, national entitlement, revenge for humiliation and restoration of mythic past glory.

Phylo: Actually, up until a few years ago, the vast majority of Iranians were proAmerica. Gee, what could have happened to change that?

celtic-dragon said: This is the same dangerous and malignant Idealogy we saw in 1935, only it is now wedded to fanatical religious certainty. This is no time for repeating historical mistakes. We have seen his type before, and 50 MILLION PEOPLE DIED AS A RESULT! Denial is a luxury we can ill afford.

Phylo: We can't afford paranoia either. Acting out of paranoia often ends in disaster. See: Iraq. God help us if someone with your level of paranoia gets into office. Oh, nevermind.

Phylo out.



camanintx:

In a word, YES! Ahmadinejad sees himself as the deputy for the Twelth (Hidden) Imam -- a purported messianic world leader. He (Ahmadinejad) welcomes chaos -- because he believes it's necessary to usher in the T.I.'s reign. Google it and see for yourself.

The most critical step
First of all, let me say I strongly agree with Dr. Sowell and the great majority of comments made above (Phylo and his ilk being the exceptions).

I make this disclaimer because what I have to say will probably cause many to think I am a raving lunatic.

But I seriously believe that the first and most important step we (and Europe) have to take to ensure our survival is to remove all Muslims from the western world and return them to their home of origin. I know - many are U.S. citizens - tough! One of the foremost tenants of citizenship in this country is swearing alliegence to America. Muslims bear alliegence to NO country - only to their religion! AND THE RELIGION CALLS FOR ELIMINATING ALL INFIDELS - THAT'S US!

I know this is a radical suggestion - but I can think of no logical reason to deny the truth; we are about to have our butts handed to us on a platter and the Muslims in our midst (CAIR, et al) will be the first to cheer.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against legal immigration of those who would become Americans; but I strongly believe that those who would accept our country's benefits while refusing to assemilate and refusing to show alligence to this country should have their citizenship revoked - immediately!

Always Right
I would love to see Jesus or God comedown here and smack us humans around abit.
That would "put the fear of God in them" so to speak. Solves a whole bunch of problems too. But if there isn't a GOD???

Then what are we fighting for people. I know I know...our way of life. Be it perverted or holy or "normal". Yes even the perverts who kill children get the benefits if we win. That is what makes me
so angry. All these radical Professors and Hate America types will still be around and I have to listen to it. That does not make me happy.

Right, Like you say self-immolation is what I read alot in some of these posts. How many times can you put the argument forward it's about survival of the western way of life? What about that just doesn't seem to sink in? Completely missing that point is beyond me. Sad really really sad.

On the other hand. I am worried about my families safety first and foremost. I will stand with my neighbors when the time comes. Fortunately that time hasn't arrived yet. But its coming. And that my friend will be the final wakeup call that I am so afraid of. Fighting the Islamo-facists in our own streets.

Will we finally all get on the same page. I think we will. But not before there is another serious attack on our shores. The thing is.
I believe there are enough people who have what it takes to win right now. Do we really need everyone? Only 33% percent of the colonists thought we needed to separate from England.

I would just like the elected representatives of the Left to actually, ACTUALLY "think" before they speak. That's all.
We can agree to disagree. But come on! some of these boobs are undermining us and putting our women and men fighting in the field in more danger. That is totally unexceptable.

More Phun with Phylo
"Phylo: One problem: He doesn't have ANYWHERE NEAR the capacity to accomplish his goal. And if he even began such an attempt his country would be turned to glass. Get a grip."

Assuming, of course, the US survived the EMP; and of course also assuming that he cares (i.e. not counting on the 72 virgins).

"Phylo: Actually, up until a few years ago, the vast majority of Iranians were proAmerica. Gee, what could have happened to change that?"

Depends on what you mean by "a few years". If you mean "30+," sure, I'll buy that. If you mean "anytime after Jimmy Carter helped (through inaction) the Ayatollahs take down the Shah," not so much.

Point of no return?in
Dr. Sowell, You truly are a very wise man. The world situation certainly seems very dark for the United States and Western Civilization, since the islamofacists are about to become nuclear powers. We are close to a point of no return.

Nuclear strikes on our country would kill millions of people and make the destruction of 9/11 seem relatively minor.

There is hope for us, however. Our civilization can survive if our leaders can muster the courage to crush radical Islam before it has the power to do us the enormous damage they promise.

I regret that we the are no longer the Christian nation we once were, due to our past failure to elect good leaders and to stop the ACLU and our radical judges, whose leftest thinking has led us away from our Christian roots. We need God's help in this fight, and it is my prayer that we will turn back to him before it is too late.

What should we do now?
I just sent your column to my friends. One wrote back, "What would Dr. Sowell suggest we do now? Everyone is talking about what not to do - no concessions, no land for peace, no food for oil, etc. Nobody knows what to do. That also goes for North Korea."

Solwell
Great read and right on! I,m for deporting all the lib traitors to North Korea and Iran and sending all the Muslims in the US back to wherever they came from! They are aiding and abetting the terrorists! We are living in perilous times and we,d better get after this huge problem now! The writer above who said he,d be watching from above must think there is a rapture coming..sorry dude no way all have sinned
and are partly responsible for the problems we face which are and will be insurmountable if we don't do something now! Electing the dems this fall will bring our doom closer and we are now at two minutes to midnight! Prayer does help and unless God steps in I am really afraid of what could happen!

Point of No Return
As a society we have redefined, incorrectly, "war," as "combat," and forgotten the difference.

Wars are poltical efforts that can be won in only two ways: Make the battlefield inconvenient (Vietnam, American revolution), or destroy the enemy society (Civil War, WWII).

Military forces are only tools of society. A war is "a continuation of politics by other means." -(Clausewitz)

Politics are how societies organize themselves.

"What do they want?" Very simple - they want what Islam historically has wanted when it has encountered infidels - death or conversion. “Getting along” is not on their agenda. They have no other goals – no treasure they desire, no land
they need, no resources they lack and want.

There is no way a modern industrial nation ever will make a battlefield too incovenient for a bunch of 7th-century barbarians. If we are to stop them, their society must be collapsed or destroyed. Any wish of getting along is too imperialistic to discuss in a multicultural world.

We destroyed German and Japanese society in WW2, and they have been economic, trade and military allies living since in freedom and democracy.

We need to destroy the societies which have given rise to the inhumane and brutal fascism sweeping the Islamic world. If we do not we will be admitting that we really don't believe in our society or liberties or values because we are not willing to save them.

For more (plug), please visit: realitycheck.townhall.com.

Very Good Article
Troubling. Yet, not suprising.


Very Good Article
Troubling. Yet, not suprising.


maniacal Islamisists
I have little to add to what's been said, except to note that the Nazis did not want to die; the Soviets did not want to die, and so we defeated them both. But the fanatical Islamisists want to die -- and ascend to Paradise each to meet his 72 virgins (what the females get I never see mentioned)-- and take us infidels with them (not to Paradise, obviously). How you defeat such a maniacal enemy (who have the support of many Muslims who are not terrorists) that the world has never seen in such droves I do not know. Fortunately for me, I have more years behind me than ahead; unfortunately, for my children the reverse is true. God help us!

maniacal Islamisists
I have little to add to what's been said, except to note that the Nazis did not want to die; the Soviets did not want to die, and so we defeated them both. But the fanatical Islamisists want to die -- and ascend to Paradise each to meet his 72 virgins (what the females get I never see mentioned)-- and take us infidels with them (not to Paradise, obviously). How you defeat such a maniacal enemy (who have the support of many Muslims who are not terrorists) that the world has never seen in such droves I do not know. Fortunately for me, I have more years behind me than ahead; unfortunately, for my children the reverse is true. God help us!

Scottie: don't sweat Phylo
Because when the fit hits the shan, it will be,

permanently:

"Phylo out".

Alsmost worth it to see the end of Leftism in this formerly-fine country.


Celt, re repeat postings
Well, either you REALLY liked what you wrote...

Don't refresh. After you post your comment, either continue down the page and post another, or re-enter the column from another page.

Because, cuz, even though I liked what you wrote, I didn't like it THAT much, y'know?

LOL

camanintx: yes, I DO think...
... they're that insane. I lived in Iran for 5 years; went to HS there. My Mom was born and raised there. I still have family members living there.

Don't doubt for one minute that they'll do it if they can. These are TRUE BELIEVERS, the scariest people on earth. They live for their reward in Paradise, not here with the rest of us hoi-polloi. Their own death, the deaths of their children, the deaths of their friends; meaningless! They're actually doing them a favor, because they reach Paradise and Allah so much sooner.

They DO NOT think like us. You'd better believe it.

If they say they want to kill you ( like they have) you'd better damned well sit up and pay attention.

BTW, for clarification
My Mom's side of the family is Armenian-Iranian. We're Christians. Just wanted to clarify, so my position is clear, and no one holds back fearing they'd offend me if I happened to be the one and only Muslim on the face of the planet to condemn Islamo-Fascism.

Not that anyone would worry about offending me. Or that there's any Muslim on the face of the planet condemning Isalmo-Fascism.

Poor Phylo. I do love his comments.
Phylo:

And you people call yourselves Christian. I don't think you have the faintest idea of what Jesus would do, or what he would think about this situation. He would be working for peace. He wouldn't hate Muslims.
================
True: Christ says when he comes back he will slay all these kind of people regardless of what religion they are. If they are "evil" then they will be slaughtered by Jesus.

Chist's first vist was as a "lamb" to be sacrificed under the Jewish law that required an unblemished lamb be sacrificed for "sin."

Christ did that and then promised that when he returned it would be as a "King" that destroyed the people who were not following God's will regarding repentence and acceptence of the gift of salvation which requires people repent of their sins even if they fall repeatedly and have to start over, repentence has to accompany the acceptance of the gift Jesus's death purchased.

Also, we know from the teachings that an individuals role is different than a nations role which is to defend the weak against evil and to destroy evil when it is a threat. As God said in Deut., when he destroyed a nation with Israel as the force because that nation's people were "wicked" and not because Israel was "righteous."

Thus, God does use nations to destroy other nations that are "evil." He not only uses nations but often Blesses them. How does a nation under God know if it is God's will? They each, as individuals, decide and then vote for the representative they feel best represents their views. If that is a Democrat, a Republican, a third party, whatever, they vote and the majority opinion rules the government. They they "limit" that majority voice with a Constitution and with representatives that understand world politics and what can and can't be done.

For example, we were in an ongoing war with Iraq and the violations of the cease fire were all that Clinton needed to bomb them and all Bush needed to resume the ongoning war. But, we don't have that same situation with Iran, North Korea, Pakistan or several other nations and our representatives are using other methods such as working through diplomatic channels until Iran makes such an overt move that several nations will join together to squash them. That is why we have representatives who can devote 100% of their time to knowing what we can and can't do.

Islamofascist have no problem telling the world that they have two major targets. Israel and the U.S. and several lower priority targets like most of Europe and Asia and Africa. They don't hide their goals. So at least they are honest about their goals of killing all "infidels."

What is funny, in a way, is that Liberals would be the prime targets too, if they were to start blowing up things here on a large scale. They hate most of what Liberals say we should be "tolerant" about.

Us against THEM!
NRAlifer, seems to have a problem with his "Us against them" mentality. "Us", that do not "blindly" follow the "party line". But, hey! People like "lifer" are on both sides of the aisle : dumnascraps, and repugnantcans. THAT is precisely why I am an Independant. "Us" should be U.S. !! Get a grip, we need to work together on these crisis.
This cannot happen when we have a "king", and his "round table". There is NO co-operation between the "parties" that SUPPOSEDLY represent U.S. Hey! Have you ever seen the old 70's commercial against littering in Tennessee...a guy in an old Chevy Corvair convertible, wearing a soiled "wife-beater"
tee, driving down the road throwing trash everywhere? That, my friend is how I "picture" YOU, lifer.
-jonboy
p.s. Me?
11B :'72-73(Airborne) '75-77(Airborne) '77-78(2nd "D") '79 (4th ID)

Phylo says:
“You're simply wrong if you think that EVERYONE in the Middle East cheers the vile actions of the extremists. Your kind of thinking is the predecessor to genocide. I get the feeling that most of the people on this site would favor killing all the Muslims, then they'll set their sites on the liberals in this country. How does that make you better than them?”


I say: You're simply wrong if you think it matters whether or not EVERYONE in the Middle East supports the Islamic fascists. Not all the people of Japan (during WWII) were "bad,” nor were all Germans members of the Nazi Party. Yet, we did not tiptoe around, mouthing politically correct platitudes designed to make everyone feel good, while inspecting each and every civilian for political affiliation before we killed them—we did what we had to do to ensure our victory.

Now, maybe you think we shouldn’t have behaved so barbarously towards the good people of Japan and Germany—but I’ll guarantee you that had you been on a landing-craft (sopping wet, pissing your pants with fear, barfing on the back of the man in front of you) waiting to go ashore in the invasion of the Japanese home islands, you’d have thanked Almighty Jesus for the A-bomb.

When a nation finds itself engaged in an armed conflict, and if it wishes to be victorious in the endeavor, the finer point you’re trying to establish—or the guilt you’re trying to apportion to those of us who read these pages and who desire to see our nation survive—regarding who’s a good Iranian/Syrian/Lebanese (take your pick) is, or at least, should be, irrelevant. You either want to win or you don’t.

And your plaintive inquiry about how the “people on this site” would favor killing all Muslims and then we’d set our (gun?) sites on liberals is ineffectual, and rather sophomoric. Killing all Muslims won’t make us any better than them, but it will make them dead and not us. (And, remember, we don't get the virgins!)

And, regarding our disagreement with liberals, it wouldn't be the first time our nation fought a civil war.

There's a'train a'comin,' and it ain't the Peace Train. (Cat Stevens, kiss my grits.) Time for choosing sides is rapidly approaching.

Phylo

Re: your post at 9:32 AM.

Phylo said: “What kind of people rape a fourteen year old girl and then gun down the whole village in a drunken rampage and then try to cover it all up (Marines in Haditha)”.

Did I miss something? I was not aware that charges had been made, that a trial was convened, and that a guilty verdict was announced. If you know these men are guilty, please document.

Phylo says:
“You're simply wrong if you think that EVERYONE in the Middle East cheers the vile actions of the extremists. Your kind of thinking is the predecessor to genocide. I get the feeling that most of the people on this site would favor killing all the Muslims, then they'll set their sites on the liberals in this country. How does that make you better than them?”


I say: You're simply wrong if you think it matters whether or not EVERYONE in the Middle East supports the Islamic fascists. Not all the people of Japan (during WWII) were "bad,” nor were all Germans members of the Nazi Party. Yet, we did not tiptoe around, mouthing politically correct platitudes designed to make everyone feel good, while inspecting each and every civilian for political affiliation before we killed them—we did what we had to do to ensure our victory.

Now, maybe you think we shouldn’t have behaved so barbarously towards the good people of Japan and Germany—but I’ll guarantee you that had you been on a landing-craft (sopping wet, pissing your pants with fear, barfing on the back of the man in front of you) waiting to go ashore in the invasion of the Japanese home islands, you’d have thanked Almighty Jesus for the A-bomb.

When a nation finds itself engaged in an armed conflict, and if it wishes to be victorious in the endeavor, the finer point you’re trying to establish—or the guilt you’re trying to apportion to those of us who read these pages and who desire to see our nation survive—regarding who’s a good Iranian/Syrian/Lebanese (take your pick) is, or at least, should be, irrelevant. You either want to win or you don’t.

And your plaintive inquiry about how the “people on this site” would favor killing all Muslims and then we’d set our (gun?) sites on liberals is ineffectual, and rather sophomoric. Killing all Muslims won’t make us any better than them, but it will make them dead and not us. (And, remember, we don't get the virgins!)

And, regarding our disagreement with liberals, it wouldn't be the first time our nation fought a civil war.

There's a'train a'comin,' and it ain't the Peace Train. (Cat Stevens, kiss my grits.) Time for choosing sides is rapidly approaching.

Dave C is correct
War is war-ALL OUT! None of this "pansy" politics" of escalation, then de-escalation or pacification (when Tricky Dick needed a boost in the polls). Someones' thread suggested an old Infantry axiom: "kill them all, and let God sort them out". I concur. Additionally: this old sniper would LOVE to secure a "sanction" on some of those "so-called holy men"!!! Waa, waa. We can't Do that anymore!
If they want to preach HATE, they would HATE MY sermon!
-jonboy

The King and his Court?
Funny, last I checked we were still holding elections every four years. Either I missed the Imperial Memo, or Jonboy missed his civics classes.

wait for the facts
First Thomas Sowell as usual right on the money.

Dear "birdman" I realize that some like you don't want to wait for the facts and investigations to show us what happened in Haditha. Even the far left liberal member of my family [who follows the usual liberal line in everything. Bush no good, neo-con, stolen elections, etc.] agreed that we should wait. But I guess we can't p;ese everyone.

A good book
Let's not be too quick to criticize Phylo; There is another side to the story whether it be right or wrong. Phylo might write with emotion, as much as the rest of us have so far, but he raises some good questions (indirectly): How do we (Non-muslim, or even muslim, Americans)know that our viewpoint is not overly biased or subjective? Many of us, I assume, have lived in America our entire lives and have not practiced any middle-eastern faith, myself included, and may have a natural bias towards what we see as a violent society. Secondly, America is not the most innocent country around. Over the course of a century the USG as gotten involved in many european, middle-eastern, and asian affairs and has occupied over 180 countries, many still today (The Thousand Year War - Richard Maybury). I do not support the brutal society and culure of radical-muslims if their intentions are, in fact, to completely destroy the west for "no good reason" or maybe for other false accusations. However, it is worth considering on a more sophisticated level exactly what events over the past century might have lead to the situation we are in. To start I suggest the book "The Thousand Year War in the Middle East" by Richard Maybury. Whether he's right or wrong he offers a viewpoint unlike any liberal or conservative I've heard yet on the issue. It might be tempting to get angry over the the violence but we have to keep our heads on our shoulders if we expect to produce any productive path.

sorry
sorry birdman I was to fast to comment. It seems that phylo is the one that is really far off the mark.

PHYLO if you think there is no threat from Islam what about 9/11, the USS Cole, the Marine Baracks and the list can go on & on. There are lists all over the internet with attacks from Islamofacism, check my blog at http://jevica2003.townhall.com for more thoughts on this.

Try the site thereligionofpeace.com which has good information about killings by Islam around the world also some good articles.

sorry
sorry birdman I was to fast to comment. It seems that phylo is the one that is really far off the mark.

PHYLO if you think there is no threat from Islam what about 9/11, the USS Cole, the Marine Baracks and the list can go on & on. There are lists all over the internet with attacks from Islamofacism, check my blog at http://jevica2003.townhall.com for more thoughts on this.

Try the site thereligionofpeace.com which has good information about killings by Islam around the world also some good articles.

Phylo
Have you given up on our discussion over on 'Why We Fight'?

jonboy: I just read your post of...
...August, 22, 2006 9:32 PM.

I have no idea in the world what you were trying to say. That was an absolutely and totally incomprehensible mess.

The only thing I could figure out was your 11B MOS and unit postings at the end, which also seemed totally irrelevant to anything.

Wanna clear that up, Big Boy?

jonboy, on re-reading...
... the only unit posting I could ID was 4th ID. What does the rest of that mean? Airborne? Yeah? So? Three times?

Really need clarification as to your intent here.

jonboy: re-read it AGAIN.
Got it this time. You're slamming NRA Lifer, AKA Gunny.

Okay, got it.

Well, listen you little snot-nosed kid, with no combat experience that I can see in your little incomplete DD214, Gunny and I and a lot of other vets on this board sweated our little asses off on the Uncle Sam-sponsored SE Asian Luxury Tour so you and your little wet-behind-the-ears generation could bask in the luxury of air-conditioned video-game warfare, all of which since 1975 to now has lasted less than one combat tour for our generation.

You aren't qualified to lick Gunny's boots groveling on your knees, you little sh*t.

jonboy, one more thought.
ANYTIME you're in LA, or planning on it, and you'd like to discuss this face to face, just let me know. I'll be more than happy to let you know how to contact me personally, and we can arrange a little meet, you sniveling POS.

The King and his Court?
Funny, last I checked we were still holding elections every four years. Either I missed the Imperial Memo, or Jonboy missed his civics classes.

BrianR

I was wondering about jonboy's rant and attack on GunnyG, also. jonboy's little more than a pissant and hardly worth your time, but glad you took him to task. He won't be making many friends on this site attacking Gunny.


Cutter: yeah, I totally lost...
... my cool. I even went back and re-read Gunny's original post from this morning, to see if I'd misunderstood. Nope.

That kind of thing just really pi+ses me off. Gunny said nothing about military service in his post (though those of us like you, I, and others have gleaned it over time), and this punk just had to jump on him, demean him, and use his own weak "experience" as a supposed justification.

Man, I'm working myself up all over again! Time for a little of my renewed stash of single-malt!

Thanks, bro.

Brian,
pass the bottle. I've spent too much time arguing with Phylo over on McCullough's column (under Monday).

Cyne: I just went and looked
Bro, here's a splash (sound of fine single-malt dribbling into an old-fashioned glass)

I can't believe he's still on that "no moral absolutes" kick, and I see even the example I raised like 3 weeks ago about the raping of a baby came into the equation. And he tries, again lamely, this time with the Nazis, to make it work for him.

Whoa!

Better you than me, bruddah.

Cyne, speaking of moral absoltes...
... and th little kid, check out Gallagher's new column. Talk about being on the topic!

Saw that
Each time one of thes columns is written on the subject, it gets scarier and scarier. What I'm afraid of is that we won't be ready for them because too many of us can't visualize a world in which these wacks get their way. Meanwhile, these wacks have all their reasons mapped out; they're perfecting their arguments; etc. I'm afraid that at the end of the day, all we'll be able to muster will be an "I told you so."

“Dynamic culture.” Tom?
“Dynamic culture.” Tom? If Muhammad’s Islam can be called that, so can Hitler’s Nazi Germany. History’s record is clear, And both are exposed by their own declarations and records of their intents and actions, not those of their victims or “neutral” chroniclers. However, Hitler never married a 6-year-old. Copy and paste any relevant document into editable form and do a “search-and-replace” of “Allah” to Satan,” and see how it reads. That is the cultural dynamic we are dealing with, including those who deny that there is a Satan, or that there are moral absolutes. The rest of your column is fine and valuable reading.

Don't attempt to deter the terrorists
Instead, deter the rogue states developing nuclear weapons.

North Korea is developing fission weapons. The mullahs of Iran are determined to join Pakistan in the "Islamic Bomb" club. Fine. Somebody will do it no matter how the major military powers try to prevent it. Scientific know-how and technology can't be bottled up forever. We can take some consolation from the fact that it takes a national command entity - which is to say the government of a country with established borders, cities, and other real assets that can serve as fixed targets.

Aum Shinrikyo was able to manufacture nerve gas even if they couldn't deploy it to maximal effect, and we won't talk about the potential for adolescent geeks and freaks to take revenge upon society as a whole with anything from cyberhacks to improvised explosives. Devising the tools for killing people has never been all that hard. A stroll through the supermarket (better yet, a visit to Wal-Mart) will provide someone with motivation and a little ingenuity the means by which to oblige the local coroner to call in a fleet of refrigerated trucks to handle the overload of corpses.

But a "suitcase from Allah" - even one so big that it takes a cargo container to convey - takes the sort of capital investment and concerted effort that only a tax collector can fund.

The great worry is that - for pelf or power or sheer bloody-mindedness - one or another of the nutcase nations is going to put one of these "devices" into the hands of the same religious fanatics who have been at war with the non-Islamic world ever since the 7th Century.

Should that happen, the way is clear. The world at large - and each of the nutcase national command entities - should be loudly, openly, explicitly, and repeatedly advised that no matter what else happens, the delivery of a "suitcase from Allah" is not going to adversely affect the United States' military capability to deliver thermonuclear annihilation anywhere on the planet.

We catch a nuke, anytime, anywhere, anyhow, Iran and North Korea both become nuclear wastelands. Tehran and Pyongyang, Wonsan and Hamhung, Mashad, Isfahan, and Tabriz, Kusong and Qom - especially Qom - get enough overkill to ensure that they can be seen from orbit glowing in the dark.

One nuke, one act of utter obliteration, richly "disproportionate" and without restraint. Mullahs and apostates alike, men and women, the elderly and the infants, the dead beyond counting, the dying beyond imagining, the deformed and diseased to remind the world for centuries of the consequences of religious fanatacism.

The terrorists are hot for Paradise, and don't care about the consequences. The people who can supply them with the bombs, however, want to keep on living.

These we can kill, and they must understand that we can and absolutely *will* destroy them, root and branch, without pity or restraint.

It's the only language they have ever known, and we cannot hesitate to speak to them in this tongue, as honestly and directly as we can.

Don't attempt to deter the terrorists
Instead, deter the rogue states developing nuclear weapons.

North Korea is developing fission weapons. The mullahs of Iran are determined to join Pakistan in the "Islamic Bomb" club. Fine. Somebody will do it no matter how the major military powers try to prevent it. Scientific know-how and technology can't be bottled up forever. We can take some consolation from the fact that it takes a national command entity - which is to say the government of a country with established borders, cities, and other real assets that can serve as fixed targets.

Aum Shinrikyo was able to manufacture nerve gas even if they couldn't deploy it to maximal effect, and we won't talk about the potential for adolescent geeks and freaks to take revenge upon society as a whole with anything from cyberhacks to improvised explosives. Devising the tools for killing people has never been all that hard. A stroll through the supermarket (better yet, a visit to Wal-Mart) will provide someone with motivation and a little ingenuity the means by which to oblige the local coroner to call in a fleet of refrigerated trucks to handle the overload of corpses.

But a "suitcase from Allah" - even one so big that it takes a cargo container to convey - takes the sort of capital investment and concerted effort that only a tax collector can fund.

The great worry is that - for pelf or power or sheer bloody-mindedness - one or another of the nutcase nations is going to put one of these "devices" into the hands of the same religious fanatics who have been at war with the non-Islamic world ever since the 7th Century.

Should that happen, the way is clear. The world at large - and each of the nutcase national command entities - should be loudly, openly, explicitly, and repeatedly advised that no matter what else happens, the delivery of a "suitcase from Allah" is not going to adversely affect the United States' military capability to deliver thermonuclear annihilation anywhere on the planet.

We catch a nuke, anytime, anywhere, anyhow, Iran and North Korea both become nuclear wastelands. Tehran and Pyongyang, Wonsan and Hamhung, Mashad, Isfahan, and Tabriz, Kusong and Qom - especially Qom - get enough overkill to ensure that they can be seen from orbit glowing in the dark.

One nuke, one act of utter obliteration, richly "disproportionate" and without restraint. Mullahs and apostates alike, men and women, the elderly and the infants, the dead beyond counting, the dying beyond imagining, the deformed and diseased to remind the world for centuries of the consequences of religious fanatacism.

The terrorists are hot for Paradise, and don't care about the consequences. The people who can supply them with the bombs, however, want to keep on living.

These we can kill, and they must understand that we can and absolutely *will* destroy them, root and branch, without pity or restraint.

It's the only language they have ever known, and we cannot hesitate to speak to them in this tongue, as honestly and directly as we can.

Cyne: maybe, but don't forget
We're conservatives; they're liberals.

Who has the guns in this country?

LOL

"I told you so! Eat lead, sucker!" (sound of a .44Mag capping. BOOOOM!)

BrianR
I opened some Lismore Speyside single malt. Do you want it neat, or with a little soda? You deserve it, brother!

Herbert W. Armstrong was right
I knew this was coming years ago. I also know that it won't be Iran or Islamic terrorists that will destroy us, neither will we destroy them. It will be the EU who destroys Iran, and who will then set their sites on us, Britain and Israel. You can laugh if you want to. All I know is I'm not living in a state of fear because I know that the end result will be the return of our Lord to put an end to this madness before we wipe out all life on earth, and to institute the Kingdom of God on earth.

Read the writings of Herbert W. Armstrong. He foretold all of this based on Bible prophecy decades ago.

Brian,
"I told you so! Eat lead, sucker!" (sound of a .44Mag capping. BOOOOM!)"

Well, that goes without saying.

Global Problem
The threat is compounded by our desire to globalize the market which demands the free trade of ideas, people and goods. Our borders are left open for cheap labor that is hurting our economy and the poorer people of the country so those with money can keep more of it.

So this is just as much an economic problem as it is an ethnic one. It is anti-Semitism riding the back of greed.

The price of our global market is our liberty.

The price of our greed is our freedom. We have become slaves to our own desires at the hands of extremists.

“Dynamic culture.” Tom?
“Dynamic culture.” Tom? If Muhammad’s Islam can be called that, so can Hitler’s Nazi Germany. History’s record is clear, And both are exposed by their own declarations and records of their intents and actions, not those of their victims or “neutral” chroniclers. However, Hitler never married a 6-year-old. Copy and paste any relevant document into editable form and do a “search-and-replace” of “Allah” to Satan,” and see how it reads. That is the cultural dynamic we are dealing with, including those who deny that there is a Satan, or that there are moral absolutes. The rest of your column is fine and valuable reading.

Very curious
I have some questions for those who advocate conquering Iran.

Are you currently serving in the military? Or planning to sign up? Or encouraging your children and grandchildren to sign up?

Have you written to your Senators and Representatives to ask for tax increases to finance the military costs of conquering Iran?

Have you read your Gospels recently where Jesus Christ teaches us how to treat our neighbors and our enemies?

Just wondering.

Point of no return
The Saracens are marching to the gates of Vienna. Beware westerners this is serious business...they took a thousand year vacation from world affairs and conquest but now, with nuclear weapons, jihad, a willing media and weakness in the west the opportunity is ripe...

Iran
I have periodically read that there is unrest in Iran, particulary at the young adult level. Are we doing anything to support this? Is there really any hope of overthrowing the current regime by supporting this unrest?

Another revolution in Iran would be much better than nukes or "boots on the ground."

Damn that Jimmy Carter anyway.

Jasmine
What everyone here is dancing around is the need for our country to MOBILIZE RIGHT NOW. Iran, Syria, North Korea all feel that we are a Paper Tiger because our military is completely tied-up in Iraq and we afraid of using the nuclear option to exert our Super Powerness.

If our military force was 4-10 times larger than its current state, I doubt that Iran would seem so bold.

Of course, this mobilization will probably not occur until we suffer a horrible attack and then everyone will will be on the bandwagon.

Our only hope of avoiding this scenario is for everyone who comprehends what we are dealing with becomes vocal about acting NOW, not later.

This thread is a good start.

Responses to Posts:
First of all, to Ark Ashemed of Bill... "Lincoln did not “conserve” the Union. His electoral victory in 1860 destroyed the Union of the Founders and replaced it with a prison of states. There was still a Union, but it wasn’t the one that was established in 1776."

Thank you for speaking in regards to Abraham Lincoln... you hit it right on the nail... he did hijack our Constitution and change the way our founding fathers created our government. That is when all our problems started in this country, and worldwide. If any of the rest of you don't believe it, I suggest you do your homework and due diligence. Read "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas J. DiLorenzo, copyright 2002 by Prima Publishing. Lincoln was a member of the Whig party until it died out, and then he became a member of the Republican party... the start of our problems because the Republican party became the party that supported the elite over the many, etc.

Irish? Your statement "The writer above who said he,d be watching from above must think there is a rapture coming..sorry dude no way all have sinned and are partly responsible for the problems we face which are and will be insurmountable if we don't do something now!" applies to me (and I'm female, thank you very much). And that is exactly my point, dear... yes, all have sinned and are like filthy rags to the Lord God... but accept His Son's sacrifice on the cross for our salvation, and we live with Him eternally. That's where we'll be... not dealing with those who "choose" to reject His Son and His Word.

Responses to Posts Pt. 2
Old Man? AMEN to your post! (Irish, take note! Maybe you'll learn something about what Christ Jesus did for you and me?)

Crotalus spoke from my heart... I've always believed that it wasn't the angel Gabriel who appeared to Muhammad in that cave... it was the angel of light, Lucifer... aka Satan... and that's who Allah really is! If you read the history of Muhammad and the religion of Islam, he created the religion from bits and pieces of Judaism, Christianity, and some of the other religions that he was exposed to while he was growing up... it's a mish-mash... at the time, his interpretation of "New Age" religion. He chose which parts he wanted to believe, and wove them together. Much like most Christians today... they choose which parts of the Bible they want to believe, which is to err against God.

Reponses to Posts Pt 3
mystic7? Honey, have you got your crosses mixed up! Armstrongites have gotten their beliefs so confused, they don't know which end is up and which is down. Please, if you value your eternal life with Christ Jesus, return to the Bible inerrant, and don't trust anything Herbert W. Armstrong wrote. He's been so disproved! Sorry if you take offense at my words, but in love for your eternal soul, I had to speak up!

Bill M? Is that the harlot riding the bull of Revelation that you describe?

Whose deaths?
Golda Meir once said "we will never have peace until they love their children more than they hate us." During the Iran-Iraq war, the Iranians sent children with plastic "keys to heaven" in human-wave attacks. It is not the Hamas or Hezbollah leadership that goes out on human-bomb attacks. If Iran were to nuke Israel, they would kill or maim many more of their Muslim brethren....

Too Feminized For Our Own Survival
This is being allowed to happen in part because we have allowed this country to become so FEMINIZED and "civilized," and have emasculated our men to the point of complete inability to speak the truth never mind to actually defend this country.

We have stood by and allowed the idiocy of "one worldism" to take root and sprout.

If we in the western world don't start taking action, the "one world" be ruled by sharia law?

May God have mercy on us!


Total Drivel
Resentments and frustrations? Hardly. It's Islam, period. Just take a look at the Koran sometime, Dr. Sowell. They do not in any way feel inferior. In fact, just the opposite.

We need action....now.
We need real action and we need it yesterday. The problem is those who are in power are too worried about what everyone thinks. I say screw the humanitarians, the liberals, and the jaundice of public opinon and let's get in there and take care of business.
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