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Wednesday, September 06, 2006
Ann Coulter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Joe Wilson: The End of an Error
by Ann Coulter
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As National Public Radio described the story behind Joe Wilson's amusingly titled book, "The Politics of Truth" (available on the $1 table in fine bookstores everywhere), in May 2004:

"Last July Wilson wrote an op-ed piece in the New York Times saying that this particular intelligence regarding Iraq was false. A week later, columnist Robert Novak revealed that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA operative."

This is like saying: "John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan; Reagan later died." Every word of that is true, but what it implies -- that Hinckley killed Reagan -- is false.

In the exact same way, the grand White House conspiracy promoted by Wilson and the mainstream media cites chronological events to prove causation.

The media's conspiracy theory is:

Wilson said Bush's famed "16 words" in his 2003 State of the Union address -- "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa" -- were a lie.

Wilson's wife was then revealed to be an "undercover" spy at the CIA, exposing Wilson and his family to danger.

Therefore, she was "outed" by the White House as retaliation against Wilson for calling Bush a liar.

Point No. 1 of liberals' conspiracy theory has been proved false since Britain's Butler Commission reviewed its government's pre-war intelligence on Iraq and concluded that "the British government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium."

It was again proved false when our own Senate Intelligence Committee also concluded, in July 2004, that Saddam Hussein had sought uranium from Niger.

So there went the White House's motive for muddying up Wilson: Government fact-finding commissions, here and in the United Kingdom, were muddying up Wilson on their own simply by finding facts.

Point No. 2, that Wilson's wife was an undercover agent, has been proved false even to the willfully blind since Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald announced the conclusion to his pointless investigation last year, saying that Plame's employment with the CIA was not undercover, but merely "classified."

Everything is "classified" at the CIA. They have no idea when 19 terrorists are about to hijack commercial aircraft and slaughter 3,000 Americans, but the CIA is very good at play-acting James Bond spy games.

How covert was Valerie Plame at the CIA? Her top-secret code name was "Valerie Plame."

All this should have been enough to end conspiracy theories of White House skullduggery. But the nation's newsrooms simply continued asserting that someone in the Bush White House had "outed" Valerie Plame, despite the fact that revealing her employment with the CIA was not illegal.

Thus, as recently as January of this year, a New York Times editorial said the issue of the "leak" about Wilson's wife, whom the Times called "a covert CIA operative whose identity was leaked" (two strikes already), concerned "whether the White House was using this information in an attempt to silence Mrs. Wilson's husband, a critic of the Iraq invasion."

Wilson was more precise about the White House "leaker," variously naming Karl Rove, Lewis Libby and Dick Cheney as the source. He even described "a meeting in the suite of offices that the vice president occupies, chaired by either the vice president or Mr. Libby," where, Wilson said, the decision was made to destroy him.

(If the secret plan hatched in the vice president's office was to send evil spirits to enter Wilson's body and make him act like a fool, the plan worked brilliantly.)

Now it turns out, even point No. 3 of liberals' conspiracy theory was false: The original "leaker" of Plame's name to columnist Bob Novak -- not a crime -- was not in the White House at all. It was Richard Armitage, a State Department official and opponent of the Iraq war.

The information that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA had nothing to do with harming Wilson. It did not come from the White House. It did not even come from someone who supported the war in Iraq.

The rest of the world found out Armitage was Novak's source last week, something Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald knew from the first week of his investigation. So what was Fitzgerald investigating?

Even people who think the president should not be subject to civil suits in office do not deny that Bill Clinton had an affair with Monica Lewinsky and lied about it in a civil suit brought by Paula Jones. However irritating it is to liberals that lying about sex under oath is a crime, there was a crime that Ken Starr was investigating.

What was Fitzgerald investigating? Not only was there no underlying crime, there was not even -- as the Times put it -- "an attempt to silence Mrs. Wilson's husband" (or an attempt "to respond to people calling you a liar in the New York Times," as normal people put it).

Fitzgerald's entire investigation was nothing but a perjury trap from beginning to end for anyone who misremembered anything about who told whom what about a low-level nobody at the CIA who happened to be married to a Walter Mitty fantasist.

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About The Author
Ann Coulter is a columnist and author of Guilty: Liberal Victims and Their Assault On America.
 
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The end of an error
Now that everybody knows who outed Ms. Plame, what is going to happen to the law suit filed against the administration? Will they try to keep it going to get a settlement from the government or will the judge have the courage to throw it out?

Will the various lead Democrats admit they were wrong or continue to claim it was revenge against Wilson?

Will the NYT print a retraction or just run a few articles about the waste of time and money and hope nobody notices?

Ann - "End of an Error"

Now that the truth is out, the silence is deafening from the msm; who give more people, more reasons each and every day to seek alternatives to their version of the truth.

Thank you Ann, for being one of those alternatives.

End of an Error
The liberal democraps are still trying to get revenge for Clinton's impeachment, Al Bore losing the election, etc.

Tanabear
Tanabear writes: "The CIA decided to send someone to check it out. They picked Joe Wilson. He came back and stated that there was nothing to this claim."

Yes, Wilson did say that. Unfortunately for you, he is a liar. His report did not say that. A Congressional BIPARTISAN committee says his report did not say that. Sorry.

I Should have said
A BIPARTISAN Senate Intelligence committee.

Intentional Error
Hey Tanabear, what's it like to have 20/20 vision and yet, be completely blind to the truth?

This shameful smear campaign was concocted by Joe Wilson, exploited by the Democrats and amplified and perpetuated by the MSM, led by the NYT. It reveals a great deal about the character of those involved, particularly Joe Wilson, Richard Armitage and Patrick Fitzgerald who knew from the beginning this was all a vicious lie.

I'm confident that the devil now holds the rights to the possession of their souls for all eternity. Better pack your Speedos and SPF 80 for judgement day, boys.

The civil suit
They will drop this suit. How can either Wilson testify under oath to what they've claimed without committing perjury? And if they can't testify, what is the basis for this claim?

George Bush did not lie--but why did he retract those words after Wilson's claim? That's my only question.

Anyway, let's now investigate Sandy Berger. I'd like to know what documents he stole and destroyed. There was an act of treason from a Clinton staffer and Kerry campaign advisor.

By the way, I think we should throw the book at Libby. He should get 2 or 3 times the punishment of Clinton for perjury. Don't you agree. That would be 3 slaps on the wrist.

Tanabear
Don't ever change; you provide me with a daily laugh with your fingers in your ears, singing "la-la-la-la-la-la".

You epitomize free speech.

Notice I didn't say anything about rational thought, however.

The end of an error
This "investigation" must have run into some big money. Instead of innocent taxpayers footing the bill (again) why don't we invite Joe Wilson to do the right thing and pick up the tab.

Who pays the bill?
Now that the truth is out and the guilty parties are more or less exposed and more so later, I would hope-if the Reblicans and/or Conservatives would have the guts to demand an investigation as to the fraud that has happened from the getgo-surely hope that the people wronged are compensated for their lawyer bills, time lost, character assasination and time spent in jail.

This is a lawsuite that should be pursued anyhow. "They" cannot and should not be allowed to get away with this deliberate attack to uproot a President and his staff. The media should have their butts kicked also for being the players responsible for all the false accusations being flung out everyday to try and lower the publics opinion of the people running this country. I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing from the start.

Let's see what the Rebublicans are made of. I should hope they won't stay in a corner sucking their thumbs! Stand up and be counted or get the heck out of D.C.

A review of reviews...
Godless: The Church of Liberalism by Ann Coulter - A Review of Reviews

Ms. Coulter, thank you for having enough confidence in the truth to expose darwinism as vain philosophy and adhered to by those reminiscent of religious fundamentals. For every one of those who oppose you, there are many that will encourage you. We have written this review of reviews of your new book for your encouragement, and we pray for your continued spiritual courage and stamina in the warfare. [Isaiah 41:10-11]

First, we commend you for confronting the official state religion. Your book is like salt and light to a world given to corruption, darkness and foolishness. Not so long ago you would be facing the punishment due to religious heretics. Now you are exposed to the more acceptable forms of persecution like assaults on your character and your religion. This is to be expected from the darwinites. They have abandoned the scientific method to win disciples in favor of intimidation and fraud.

Isaac Newton said that the eye did not originate without knowledge of the science of optics. Similarly, we can say that flying creatures did not originate without knowledge of the science of aerodynamics. It is incredible that intelligent men would think that these things happened without a designer. This tells us something significant about the darwinites. Regardless of what they say, this controversy has more to do with philosophy than with science.

Continued on the blog...

It's also worth mentioning...
...that the basis for prosecuting Scooter Libby is that his testimony contradicted the confused notes of a reporter. Two people remembered the conversation differently.

The scribbles of the reporter were taken as true (without any other verification whatsoever) and the notes of the Bush Administration official were taken to be incorrect, and therefore criminal.

Sanny, you make a good point
Think if the situation was reversed. What would the Democrats demand? Then tone it down from there.

We need calls for an independent prosecutor to investigate Fitzgerald.

"But the nation's newsrooms simply
continued asserting that someone in the Bush White House had "outed" Valerie Plame, despite the fact that revealing her employment with the CIA was not illegal."

Because they were simply echoing Democratic Party leaders; even if it's a lie, it's still news (according to them) if Pelosi (or whoever) says it. That the media was more interested in parroting Dems than in revealing the lie says what most people already know about them.

Who pays the bill?
Shame we can't send Wilson and Fitzgerald the bill. But I certainly hope the ABA takes action against Fitz for knowingly proceeding with a fake investigation, the way they disbarred Bill C. after he perjured himself.

IN THE CLEAR LIGHT OF DAY
the cockroaches all go running for the shadows. This is what we have been seeing for the past week. As I noted in yesterday's column 'Disloyalists' and as CutterBench today notes, the silence is indeed deafening. You know the LLMSM talking heads have taken a kick in the ribs by not only mentioning the outcome of this whole BS tempest in a teapot, they have stepped up in the ad hominem attacks on Bush, Rumsfeld et al regarding the appeasement comparisons. Or, they slip into more familiar behavior. Like on the MSNBC show, 'Mr. Olbermann's Neighborhood' he falls back to what he does best. His real bread and butter. Attacks on Bill O'Reilly and gigglefests with his 'good friend' Michael Musto about Suri Cruise as well as jokes about the Pope's headwear and midgets from Nepal.
Again, as I noted yesterday, this end has been met with comlete silence everywhere except on Fox . And they only mention it in passing. They should apply the old good for goose is good for the gander in this instance. Keep jumping up and down on this. However, as I'm writing this, it comes to mind that they have bigger fish to fry. Like the Los Angeles Times editorial stating that the conservative and Republicans are 'demogouging' the issue of illegal aliens. The liberal left, like the spoiled children they are, keep coming up with one thing after another to kick this great nation of our's down. Not only is this a long term war with a foreign enemy who looks for new ways to destroy us, we are at war with a domestic one that does the same thing.
One reader did point out a very good way to admonish this behavior on the part of 'Clown' Wilson - I wonder if Vanity Fair is going to come calling for another photo op?- is to make him pay where it really hurts. In the wallet.
In what way? As Jack Nicholson pointed out so aptly in the file 'Chinatown'." Sue the s**t out of them."

Cynewulf
You have the dynamic here backwards. The Dems echo the NYT on every issue; the NYT decides what the issue is, how it is to be framed, and what the liberal position on it is and the Dem politicians start parroting what the NYT position is. The Dems follow the NYT around like puppies on a leash, just like the networks do. Think about it, the NYT hits the streets first, then the Dems find their positions. Remember the Feingold decision to call for the impeachment of Bush...after the NYT said that Dems should be calling for impeachment?

The end of an error
It is their sense of moral superiority that compels Dems to employ any means to justify their ends, destroy Bush. How else can one willfully champion liars like Wilson?

The fact that we will never see a full retraction or accountability from the MSM matters so much less than it did. Every such event unmasks their agenda, and with it, their pious superiority. They have compromised their credibility, dishonored their profession. Cute anchorpersons and new formatting will not rescue their plummeting market share.

How many times can you be wrong?
tanabear writes: The whole story has yet to be told. What prompted Joe Wilson's trip to Africa was information that Iraq had procured Uranium from Niger.

Wrong. Wilson's trip was prompted by information that Iraq ATTEMPTED to buy uranium from Niger. A fact that Wilson confirmed to the CIA then denied in the NY Times.

Cynewulf
The msm did that also because their hatred for GWB knows no bounds and they are DESPARATE for ANYthing that will take his popularity ratings down a peg or three. The truth about Ms Plame's employment became known, but there just weren't any new "scandals" for them to latch onto, to replace the "Outing Valerie Plame" story, so they had to keep it going.

As long as the majority of Americans think GWB is still the most honest Pres in the last 13 years - and actually LIKE GWB, for heavens' sake! - the msm is in agony.

You forgot General Powell
Fightr4right:

Two points:

+You forgot to mention the culpability of that "secular saint", Colin Powell, then Secetary of State. Mr. Armitage, after realizing that he was the source of the leak, had the moral courage to inform his boss, Gen Powell, & offer a resignation letter. Gen Powell apprently refused said resignation letter and hid the information from the White House. This doesn't speak well for Gen Powell's character.
+Ms. Plame hasn't been an "operative" for over 10 years- she was one of the CIA spys fingered by the Soviet mole Aldridge Aimes. Her cover blown- she wisked out Russia soon thereafter.

Thank you Ann.
The internet, the alternatives and talk radio need to keep harping on this mess up to and after the next election. This is merely one more reason to drive the left OUT of the public square- for good. Let them howl from the fringes forever.

What did we find out?

That Joe Wilson is a moron and an idiot. He can't stand that his paper-pushing wife has a more important job than he does. He is a small man who will never be anything more.

Valerie Plame is nothing but a high paid secretary and a cover-girl wannabe. She is dumb enough to climb into bed with that loser every night which tells the rest of us ALL we need to know about HER.

Livingston is a publicity hound and a biased tool of the left. Since he KNEW who "leaked" this unimportant bit of non-info, HE should be charged and should spend some time in jail for his spurious litigation and waste of copious amounts of tax money.

The rest of us are CRAZY if we let this chance pass us by.

Forget Him
What could be better than throwing Wilson in jail? Knowing that he will soon be forgotten. He is a nobody and the attention he craves will be henceforth denied.

debunking coulter is fun
Coulter claims that Wilson said the president lied in his op-ed.

Actually, what he said is that it was highly unlikely that Saddam could've succeeded in actually getting any uranium from Niger given the tremendous amount of oversight on their uranium mines.

However, this does IMPLY the president lied. After all, it doesn't matter if he tried to get uranium from Niger if he had no chance of actually getting any. If I were the president and I were telling people about Saddams attempt to get uranium, I would've felt duty and honor bound to mention how unlikely it was that he could've gotten any. President Bush on the other hand, only wanted to tell the scary part of the story. Though, to their credit, the White House actually did later agree that he shouldn't have used the sixteen words.

Ann Coulter wrote: Point No. 2, that Wilson's wife was an undercover agent, has been proved false even to the willfully blind since Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald announced the conclusion to his pointless investigation last year, saying that Plame's employment with the CIA was not undercover, but merely "classified."


Phylo: Do you folks know who David Corn is? He's the guy who first revealed publicly that Armitage was the original source for Novak.In his new book, he is the first to publicly reveal what Valerie Wilson actually did at the CIA. Here's the excerpt from the book:

"Though Cheney was already looking toward war, the officers of the agency's Joint Task Force on Iraq--part of the Counterproliferation Division of the agency's clandestine Directorate of Operations--were frantically toiling away in the basement, mounting espionage operations to gather information on the WMD programs Iraq might have. The JTFI was trying to find evidence that would back up the White House's assertion that Iraq was a WMD danger. Its chief of operations was a career undercover officer named Valerie Wilson."

I'll bet you won't hear about that on Salem radio.

Phylo out.




No Shame
This is all simply dirty politics designed to destroy. No one does dirty politics better (worse?) than dirty democrats - it's because they have no recognizable moral conscience. Silly liberals know no shame.

Hockeygoon:

I don’t know if you are old enough, but do you remember the expression from the late 60's? "Just because I'm paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get me." Do you get the sense that nothings really changed and we still have a segment of our society that see a conspiracy; under every bed, in every closet and around every corner? Then there's the opportunists (namely, any pol with a “D” after his name, excluding Joe Lieberman – hence the reason for his expulsion) that know better but nonetheless prey on the people that harbor those fears.

The foregoing noted, Tanabear is perfectly content with the left’s version of the story and short of a “revelation from on high” I don’t suppose anyone will ever convince Tanabear otherwise. When I first reading Ann’s column, I wondered how much (or even if) we would be hearing from the left? Tanabear never disappoints. And if nothing else, make’s for some lighthearted entertainment.


STANDTALL: Good post!

MSM Response to Blamegate truth: ((((((((((CRICKETS CHIRPING)))))))))) (LOL)

phylo
The 16 words are not a lie, unless you believe that the UK told Bush 'we did not learn Saddam was seeking uranium' and then he put it in his speech.

Whether or not it was likely is IRRELEVANT. You lefties still do not understand the word LIE. Clinton didnt either.

Outing a person AS A COVERT OPERATIVE is a crime. Anything less is just saying here name. You do know the CIA employs a lot of people who are neither covert nor operatives? She wasnt covert in over 5 years and no mention of her as a covert operative in the Novak piece. (Probably because she wasn't one)

Keep trying though, I think I saw those windmills move...

Before talk radio and the net
How did Republicans/Conservatives ever get elected? The influence of the MSM was estimated at 15 points by someone. Back when there was no source for contrary info. All the lies were repeated in every MSM source. That is scary.

Unilateral
That's another word liberals don't know the meaning of. Freedom fighters is another. Undercover? Illegal as it applies to immigration ( honestly George Bush and John McCain don't know that one either). Any others?

Why do people bother?
Phylo Se Fizer writes:
Actually, what he said is that it was highly unlikely that Saddam could've succeeded in actually getting any uranium from Niger given the tremendous amount of oversight on their uranium mines.



So why did Wilson say that the President was wrong? Wilson's report confirmed that Iraq attempted to purchase uranium from a country in Africa. The president was emphasizing the growing threat of Iraq and that they where attempting to reconstitute their nuclear program and were searching the world over to acquire the means to do so. No one in this administration ever made the claim that Iraq had purchased nuclear material (although it was made in the Clinton Administration).


Let's talk about an open door.......
If ever the Republicans had a weapon to knock the living life out of the demoncrats (my pet name), they have it handed to them on a golden platter.

Will they take it up and use it? This is so perfect, just before election! Of course it will have to be an air attack because the print medea will not print it or the results of the investigations if they can help it. (Who reads anyway.)

This is solid proof of how high, or should I say, low-handed the demoncrats are and how totally unbelievable the press is. This is a gift from God. But, are they elephants, who never forget, or, are they truly jackasses in an elephant's clothing???

Let's wait and see if they just stand back and say "woa is me, why don't they leave us alone, we always share, don't we." (whine, whine, whine) Quit sucking up!!! They hate the ground you walk on, not to mention your guts!!!

Somebody give me a 2X4, quick.

Phylo
I have been pleased for the most part by the tone of your posts lately, do not agree with the total content but am happy that the discussion can be civil.

You state that Mr. Wilson did not say GW lied, but conceeded that the implication was there. That in DC speak is how one man calls another man a liar. Very seldomwill they use direct wording.

That Mr. Cheney was already looking towards war is quite likely because he was tasked with planning in that direction in case that option had to be used. Now whether you feel this planning was done effectively or not can be a matter of future debate, but if we feel we may move in a particular direction someone needs to do some planning for that. That a group of people were specifically gathering information to substatiate the claims of Iraq having these weapons is not suprising. That Mrs. Wilson was overseeing it is amusing, but being referred to as a "career undercover officer" is not suprising, authors know the public sees the CIA to be cladestine and James Bondish. His description is a way of adding mistique and an air of skull duggery to the story.

I have often wondered about the charge that the White House, DC speak for GW Bush, "outted" Plame to silence her husband. How exactly was that supposed to work? Would that be akin to kicking a hornets nest because a couple of them flew around your head? I mean you have just got to know the Sierra Hotel India Tango is going to hit the fan.

Am not sure what Salem radio is but have seen you mention it on more than one occasion, it must give you a fine source of entertainment.


Amazing
That there are libs here actually still debating this. This is like a poker player continuing to bet with the worst hand after all the cards are on the table. It's utter insanity. Of course, the White House retracting the "16 words" from the SOTU address is like folding after seeing the cards, but that's beside the point. Saddam's chances of having succeeded in the transaction are irrelevant, both because that wasn't the White House's claim about what British Intelligence had learned, and because the mere attempt to acquire uranium was relevant to assessing the threat Saddam posed. Not to mention that the Senate committee report showed that the CIA believed that the information Wilson reported actually bolstered the claim that Saddam had attempted to acquire uranium.

End Of an Error
Ann Coulter wrote:

“(If the secret plan hatched in the vice president's office was to send evil spirits to enter Wilson's body and make him act like a fool, the plan worked brilliantly.)”



I have to protest this. It is impolite to accuse Mr. Wilson of acting!

All that considered...
...the whole mess really is Bush's fault -- at least his administration's fault. It turns out that both his Secretary of State and his Attorney General had information that could have short-circuited the whole fiasco. But for some unfathomable reason they chose not to use it and not even tell Bush what they knew. And Bush hired both of them. Bush also appointed the SP when he could have conducted a quick internal investigation and gotten to the bottom of the whole affair.

Despite the damage done by Gonzalez's lack of action, he is still AG. I would have fired him on the spot.

All this makes me think there is still more to all this than we know.

Wisolman
Well, to some extent, yes. But they had to make a political calculation. They knew there was nothing to the charges, so they decided to play along and try to make themselves look like they were cooperating with everything, not trying to cover anything up, and knowing that a result like this would end up happening, with the truth coming out that no crime had been committed, and that Wilson is a liar and a fraud.

Unfortunately, this ended up being an enormous waste of taxpayer dollars, and they should have known that fighting a PR battle with the liberal media is a losing effort going in. There was three years worth of liberal media drumbeating that probably did more harm to the public perception of the administration than any good that will come of the limited attention the story is getting now.

Correction
For those who visited my Blog by clicking my name, I wish to say that the e-mail I got from Senator Mike Enzi wasn't a form letter as he did address every issue I asked about. I only quoted part of his response to Illegal Immigrants. I also sent him a copy of what I posted on my Blog hoping somebody will wake up but I sure won't hold my breath waiting.

Wilsolman
Armitage was a Clinton appointee whom the President retained in the "new spirit of cooperation." Powell was always opposed to taking the War on Terror into Iraq. They have maintained their silence willingly. As such, they have proven to be not just opponents of the President's policies, but also disloyal to the President.

The President was pressed to direct the AGUSA to appoint a SP by the demoncRATS and the MSM, who never would have accepted an internal WH investigation or an investigation by the AG himself (who was Ashcroft, not Gonzales, BTW). Sure, they took Reno's word as gospel when their boy was in the WH, but they would have gone hog wild if an internal investigation or Ashcroft had cleared the air.

And Ashcroft also knew all about Armitage before Fitzgerald was on the case. He could not say anything because of the above.

Robyn
I agree with what you say and mean, but I would caution, particularly in this discussion on Ann's page at Townhall, to use a little different language.

None of us want to be "harpies," do we?

Sorry tanabear, but ...
tanabear wrote: "The whole story has yet to be told. What prompted Joe Wilson's trip to Africa was information that Iraq had procured Uranium from Niger. Cheney requested more information about this. The CIA decided to send someone to check it out. They picked Joe Wilson. He came back and stated that there was nothing to this claim. Barbo Owens Kirkpatrick, the Ambassador to Niger, also said that the claim had been debunked. It had. It later turned out that the the documents that prompted Cheney's questions were forged."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The forged documents that turned up in Italy appeared about a year AFTER Wilson's trip to Niger. It would have been hard for these documents to have prompted Wilson's trip since they didn't even exist at the time.


To President
I usually hear from Sen. Thomas and it is always specific, but when it comes to doing the hard stuff, both are as PC as anyone else in congress. I imagine that is because both are more dependent on PACs for money than what the residents of our state can drum up!
Enzi voted for the internet bill that will cost us more money, Thomas talks a good talk, but does nothing about helping reform the ESA, and getting rid of "that mouse".

tanabear
Your entire post has been debunked so many times, it is becoming quite clear that Dr. Horowizt was 100% right by identifying liberalism as a 'mental disorder'.

"He came back and stated that there was nothing to this claim."

According to the CIA, and their report to the bi-partisan commission to investigate pre-war intelligence, this statement is 100% inaccurate. The CIA claimed that Wilson's report only reenforced the assertion that Iraq tried to acquire uranium, and he did NOT say otherwise.

"It later turned out that the the documents that prompted Cheney's questions were forged. This is the whole basis that Saddam sought Uranium from Niger."

The Butler Commission proved this assertion 100% innaccurate. There was substantial intelligence outside of the forged documents pointing to the Iraq meeting in Niger, and is the reason why, to this very day, the UK stands behind their assertion that Iraq tried to acquire uranium in Niger.

"The entire war, from begining to end, was a massive propaganda campaign by the neo-cons. They are the true masters of terror and propaganda."

And the senate commission found this statement 100% innaccurate as well, not only finding that the pre-war intelligence was NOT doctored or overemphasized, but even going so far as to say that the intelligence withheld from the Senate was "even more alarming" than what the Senate was privy to.

On behalf of Dr. Horowitz, I politely request you take your meds.

Confused
Okay, if the prompting for Mr Wilson to go to Niger and investigate the claims that Iraq attempted to purchase yellowcake were false, does that mean that Mr Wilson only flew to Niger to look at the fake documents and wrote his report solely based on those false documents? Certainly Mr Wilson's entire report was not based on a couple of forged documents, right? If not, what does it matter that the documents were forged? I mean, if I call the fire department and tell them my friends house is on fire - as a practical joke - and when the FD arrives they actually find a fire, does the FD then leave until someone calls them back to report the actual fire?

ctjaeger re: confused
I guess it depends on if you called the DNC fire department, then I would say yes you can expect them to make a return trip.

The other interesting thing or two about this whole sordid affair is Mr. Wilson filing a report with, supposedly, the people he works for saying one thing then changing his story for the press.

Which makes me ask if he was investigating these allegations at the request of the CIA why in the world is he talking to the press about it? I mean does every person working for the gummint need to be told that just because it doesn't have Super-Duper-Top-Secert stamped on it does not mean spill your guts to the first available reporter.

And finally why in the blue blazes do they keep pointing back to this one individual who either misrepresented his report or lied to the press. When other, seperate sources indicated that yes there was a shopping spree going on.

Dan Ratherornot could have summed this up for us all very eloquently:
The documents may be forged but we stand behind the substance.

Then again that shoe only seems to fit the left foot.

The Left
The Left lives on conspiracy theories like the ones being circulated by Mr. Wilson for the following reason: in the Left's view of reality, "the people" (as opposed to the "oppressor class," however one defines it) are inherently good and the exemplars of all things virtuous, noble, honorable, and just. Therefore, members of the "the people" simply cannot be responsible for their own misery and misfortune. Its ALWAYS the fault of "the rich," "the CIA," "the GOP," "big Oil," etc. Uncanny. Canny even!

A Letter
I have just posted a letter that every Republican need to receive. You can see the post by clicking on my name. Feel free to send it to your Leaders.

Conservatives:

Does this thread in the very least indicate how futile arguing with some folks on the left can be? Even the talking heads in the msm know this thing is a Dead Duck. This is, the very same msm that gave us pathological gems like, “Although the documents are forged, the story is true.” If there was anyway they could spin this thing without taking a hit down the smokestack they would. Perhaps, this is an indication, as to how effective policing (by “Bloggers in pajamas”) of the msm has actually become. Nonetheless, there are any number of people on the left that continue to parrot the party line.

BTW -- I am in no way advocating we discontinue our discourse with the left but the posts are very telling. If nothing else, we can help them get through their denial.

tanabear
Presuming the chronology of you comments is correct regarding the events surrounding Wilson's investigation of Iraq's uranium interests - should we dismiss the fact that hundreds to thousands of warheads with nerve gas are not to be considered as WMDs?
Do you have any doubt that Saddam would have gladly facilitate radical jihadists with WMDs of any size or potential?
Are reducing the argument as to whether or not it was prudent to draw the war against radical jihadism into Iraq (and thankfully not again on our shores) to pure semmantics?
I'll put it to you more precisely. Would you believe the jihadists strategies would have changed one iota if we did not invade Iraq? As such, when and where would you prefer to strike against an ununiformed, hate-filled and radical enemy?

The End of An Error
I should remember, but how much did the proceedings against Scooter Libby cost the American taxpayers? Who suggested the Special Prosecutor who, in retrospect, was not only not that special, but had his own agenda, to see if he could catch someone in some lies. Millions of dollars wasted. Maybe Wilson could reimburse the expenses from the royalties on his book or the recovery in his assinine lawsuit Hah! The British have it right. Make the one who starts the lawsuit pay all fees and costs if the suit is groundless. Just think! We could do all sorts of really good things, for the American people at large, if this sort of incredible waste could be nipped in the bud!

Ask and you shall receive
tanabear writes: Thursday, If what I'm stating is wrong, then please tell me when did Saddam seek Uranium from Niger? I want a date, who he sent, and what was discussed


Go to the bottom of page 43 of the bipartisan intelligence report on prewar intelligence assessments on Iraq. In the last paragraph Joe Wilson describes his "interview" with former Prime Minister Mayaki. Mayaki told JOE WILSON that and Iraqi trade delegation met with his subordinates in June 1991 and attempted to purchase uranium. But because of the UN sanctions they declined.

It is also revealed page 43 that in 1998 Iraq had attempted to purchase 400 TONS of yellow cake, but that sale was never completed.


http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf


In confirmatin of the Iraq's nuclear ambitions:

According to the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency, in 1999 an Iraqi named Wissam al Zawahie was sent on a "trade mission" to Niger. Wissam al Zawahie was one of the chief Iraqi advocates for the development of nuclear weapons by that country.

The End of An Error
Heatherradish (great nom de plume)The ABA? What a joke. The American Bar Association has no power and no authority over attorneys. They could "kick him out" of the ABA, and refuse to take his $350 dues a year but, as the great Melvin Belli once said, when they kicked him out: "It's just like getting kicked out of the Book of the Month Club." I would have said that the latter was worse!

Phylo . . .
you made an issue of the fact that Sadam, although he tried, wouldn't have succeeded in getting uranium from Niger.

The point, my friend, is that SADAM WAS TRYING TO GET URANIUM.

What do you think he was going to do with it? Sprinkle it on his salad? He was reconstituting his nuclear program.

Hockey Goon
I admire your determination but, and you may know this better than I do, it won't help one bit in TanaWorld. Next thing you will be asked to supply social security numbers, home addresses with zip codes, PIN numbers, possibly a copy of travel documents where the Purpose of Business is filled out as "Purchase of Uranium", otherwise you will have no "proof". But like I said, I do respect your resolve.

DavidMac is correct
and several former Iraqi Generals have stated that Saddam was waiting for the end of sanctions to begin full scale re-development of his NBC programs. This story ran oh-so-briefly in the New York Times. BTW, David Broder at the Washington Post (not exactly a conservative comrntator) called today for an apology to Karl Rove from Salon, Newsweek and others.

Agreed
NRAlifer writes: Bush should have CLEANED HOUSE on them in 2000. Any Klintoon appointees should have be FIRED ON THE SPOT!


From George Tenant to Richard Armitage the Clinton retreads have been nothing but trouble.

Libs not jokers, they are traitors!
ChasVS

If we were to throw every Democommunist that has tried to undermine the Bush Administration into the jail, who would protest in front of Walmart or pay their Mother's $50 bucks a month for renting the basement? The economy might collapse from the missing Mother's casino funds.

The Republicans and every other true American has been trying to save and protect America from terrorists and terrorism. The Democommunists has done everything they can to regain power through their relentless attacks on the Bush Presidency and America's security. These attacks, long ago, quit being just paronoid dissent. They are nothing short of treasonous.

Tanabear needs to get out of his Mother's basement and get a real job.

LIKE A SHAKESPEARIAN GHOST

Joe Wilson will keep popping up through trap doors when the looney liberal conspiracy buffs need more fodder for their lunacies. Just like the internet movie 'Loose Change' this man has been debunked beyond repute.
However, try as one might, you can't argue with a sick mind.
Mr. Goldberg does 'Clown'Wilson a high honor in calling hime a 'former diplomat.'If anything, he was responsible for keeping beer in the 'fridge and making sure the plumbing worked correctly in hot spots in the world such as Burkina Faso. In the maybe two press appearances I have seen him in, he comes off as erractic at best and at worst, just plain stupid.
No, Joe Wilson IV will live on as an icon. Just like Colonel Sanders and the kid you see on a box of Crackerjacks. But don't expect to see him on the talk show circuit any time soon. Not unless he is sitting on his wife's lap and she has her hand in his back pulling the strings

I agree
Fletch writes: tanabear is simply wrong.

Sorry for the edit but I think this covers it.


Tanabear - Your story is Joe Wilson lied when he told the CIA that Iraq attempted to buy yellow cake?

We can agree on part of that - Joe Wilson is a liar.

tanabear
Shells? Warheads? Aren't these semantics? You cannot deny the shells/warheads tested positive for chemical products any more than you can deny Saddam used them against Kurds as he can safely presume he would not have grieved if they were used in the US. How many dots do you need to connect?
In context, the president said we did not find the WMDs we expected - everyone knows that is a an allusion to Nuke capability - possession of chemicals is a 'known.'
As for credibility regarding what was known or not and further whether the president lied - have you reed the Butler report and the 9-11 commission reports. Were you listening when Russia and Germany also stated the expectation that WMDs were in Saddam's possession. What do you suppose the 16 or 17 UN resolutions were intended to achieve?
The schoolyard mantras 'Bush lied' and 'Bush cheated' is only as silly as the Bush is a Bully non-sense. Are we to suppose Kerry who said he would do the same thing only differently was lying?
New tape out regarding Clinton's comments regarding not pursuing bin Laden are "troubling" wouldn't you say?
Seems like the can was kicked down the proverbial street...
Before I join the Dem revolution to impeach Bush and revamp Congress you will have to show me a better plan - the tedious whining isn't going to do it.

Tell me where I'm wrong
Wilson was asked to check on the intel that said that Saddam tried to get uranium from N.

He went there, talked to the US ambasador there. She said she debunked the intel. He then investigated further and also found that it was HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that a TRANSACTION could've taken place, given the enormous controls.

If I were Joe Wilson and had done that work only to hear the president tell the American people, in a menacing tone, Saddam recently sought uranium from Africa, I would've been upset too. It would've sounded to me like he was only telling a half-truth (i.e., a lie). MAYBE someone from Iraq tried to get yellocake from N, but to fail to mention the fact that it was HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that a TRANSACTION could have occurred is highly misleading.

Phylo out.

read your own quote tanabear
'the weapons of mass destruction that we all believed were there'

The last 6 words are a qualifier. THE WEAPONS that we all believed were there, aka Nukes. That doesn't mean we didn't find any WMDS or evidence of materials that could be used(500 tons of uranium).

It still doesn't matter. He had evidence SH had them or was pursuing them. He had some others(Other nations however were not among them) saying Saddam had none. The choice to act or sit and pray was his to make.

Your stance is you would believe the Butcher of Baghdad over GW Bush, our intelligence or over our own allies.

Which is pretty sad.

Get a blog already Fletch!
Your troll killin is legendary around here! You need to get a blog. I always enjoy your posting debunking the liberal trolls. If you get a blog you will not have to worry about the language filter. (Or atleast I don't believe you will.)

Re: Phylo
Did you read Fletch's posts? Go read them again! The issue isn't if Iraq purchased Uranium, the issue is that they were attempting to do so. This is a clear violation of the UN Sanctions against them. It was also not known by either Wilson or Barbo Owens Kirkpatrick that Niger was trying to sell Uranium on the "black market". Where do you believe that Iraq received Uranium for their nuclear plant in the early 80s?

A little bit pregnant
It seems to me that WMD's are a simple true/false condition. If we found WMD's (in whatever form), then we found WMD's. How many, where, how deadly, etc. are all red herrings. Notice how the bar keeps moving to exclude the findings. Either you are pregnant or not. Either he had WMD's or not. Am I missing something here?

response to jander
Are you saying that fletch knows more that Joe Wilson about the situation?

Phylo out.

response to scottie
Scottie wrote: A little bit pregnant. It seems to me that WMD's are a simple true/false condition. If we found WMD's (in whatever form), then we found WMD's. How many, where, how deadly, etc. are all red herrings. Notice how the bar keeps moving to exclude the findings. Either you are pregnant or not. Either he had WMD's or not. Am I missing something here?

Phylo: Not even George Bush is weasely enough to claim that a few hundred degrated, useless, canisters of sarin gas constitue WMDs.

Phylo out.

revised response to jander
Why can't you people understand that, whether or not they wanted to get uranium is irrelevant if they can't get any?

My point is that the president didn't tell us the whole truth. He told us the part of the truth that suited his agenda.

All Joe Wilson did is point this out to the rest of us.

And I find it revealing that you people hate him for it.

Phylo out.

Phylo
Maybe you would like to handle those canisters and tell us how harmless they are. Better have an atropine injector and a MOPP suit...
In any event, whether he had them or not, he was still resisting inspections and had substantially violated the cease-fire agreement DOZENS of times by firing on coalition aircraft. This constiitutes a Causeus Bellum, or cause for war (my apologies if I mangled the Latin). Sorry, but he brought it on himself, kind of like a guy who waves a toy gun at a cop in the dark. He has nobody but himself to blame for getting shot.

So Kimberly...

Do you personally have anything to add to the ongoing discussion?

Unfortunately not the end
Ann's comment is great, but unfortunately, not true. The truth has never made much of an impact on Democrats.

The eighties are still the decade of greed. Carter thinks he was a successful president. Clinton is the victum of the "vast right-wing conspiracy" despite the blue dress.

If you repeat a lie enough times, some people will it. Democrats are very repetitive.

Unfortunately not the end
Ann's comment is great, but unfortunately, not true. The truth has never made much of an impact on Democrats.

The eighties are still the decade of greed. Carter thinks he was a successful president. Clinton is the victum of the "vast right-wing conspiracy" despite the blue dress.

If you repeat a lie enough times, some people will it. Democrats are very repetitive.

Kimberly
So do you think Bush caused/planned 9/11 ?

If you do believe this you are a grade A nut-job, no matter what happened to your husband.
If you do not what is it the commission did not discover that it should have? Political dirt on Bush?

PS: It takes longer than 8 months to plan an attack like 9/11. This means it started BEFORE Bush took office.

"But I will leave you with this: We live in America, the world's oldest democracy."

Actually we live in a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. I learned this in middle school social studies. In a republic we elect leaders who make the decisions.

You can rant and rave all you want, but the decisions are still up to the President. Your voice should NOT count louder than anyone elses. No amount of tragedy allows you any amount of authority which is not given to you.

"We still have the right to speak our minds to effect change (within the parameters of the law, of course). So don't try to silence the voices of victims or anyone else, merely because you disagree with them or feel threatened by their political choices. "

Ann has simply voiced her opinion. I don't hear her calling for you to be silenced, quite the contrary: it is helping her sell books. Its quite easy for you to 'stand up to Ann' since she has no power over you at all. Standing up to the bandwagon media trashing Bush at every turn takes a bit more guts.

"In my opinion, your method of using intimidation and insults to "win" a debate is truly unpatriotic."

And I believe it is childish to go after the President when some Islamic thugs kill your husband along with 3000 other people. Bush has a tough job, one that I am quite certain you couldn't do. At least he is clear on who the enemy is.


DavidM - re: Kimberly

It appears as though Kimberly posted a previously published (June 2006) open letter from Kristen Breitweiser to Ann Coulter.

That is why I questioned her as to whether she "personally [had] anything to add to the ongoing discussion?"

Nonetheless, your points are well taken, esp. concerning our "Constitutional Republic." There is, after all, a huge difference between a Democracy and a Constitutional Republic. I think Kristen's use of the word (democracy) was intentional and very telling.

Agenda?
What was President Bush's agenda in going to war in Iraq? I don't quite remember. Can someone refresh my memory? Phylo? I just have to know why he was so eager to go to war. So much so that he just had to tell half-truths (i.e. "lies") about Iraq seeking uranium from Niger. I'm so confused. Where are some "clear-vision" liberals when I need them. I guess I just feel that if you know Bush lied to suit his agenda, then you must know what Bush's agenda was. What was it? Why was he so desparate to go to war?

Which President has the most GRAVITAS???
Terrorism and terrorist attacks against America and its citizens have been persistent and increasing over the last three decades, reaching critical mass within the last 15 years. Be you on the right or the left you can’t deny that America has a major problem to confront and resolve.


The presidencies of William J. Clinton and George H.W. Bush have been at the forefront of 21st century terrorism and both administrations have been embroiled in controversy, legal issues, sensationalism, vilification, demonizing and bitter partisanship. Clinton was impeached and Bush stands accused of many crimes with many members in Congress who want to impeach him as well.


What are the nature of the accusations, indictments and controversies that have and do surround Presidents Clinton and G.H.W. Bush?????????


Bush’s laundry list of political problems:
Bush ignored Bin Laden and Al Qaeda threat until after 9/11
Bush invaded Iraq to get oil
Bush invaded Iraq to make Halliburton rich
Bush lied about WMD in Iraq
Bush lied about Al Qaeda being in Iraq prior to 2003
Bush lied about Iraq seeking uranium
Bush lied when he announced “Mission Accomplished”
Bush has violated human rights of suspected terrorists at Abu Grahab
Bush has/is violating human rights of suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay
Bush is operating illegal, clandestine CIA prisons housing suspected terrorists.
Bush illegally revealed the identity of an undercover CIA agent
Bush illegally wire-tapped the phone calls of suspected terrorists
Bush has tortured terrorists in order to extract information and intelligence.


Clinton’s laundry list of political problems:
Clinton was involved in Whitewater Banking Fraud scheme
Clinton illegally fired White House Travel Staff and replaced with friends
Clinton illegally obtained FBI files of political opponents
Clinton had political opponents illegally audited by IRS
Clinton had to amend prior tax returns and pay additional taxes
Clinton sold pardons
Clinton traded pardons for votes for Hillary
Clinton illegally took White House property when vacating the WH in 2001.
Clinton solicited and accepted illegal campaign contributions
Clinton had an affair with JENNIFER FLOWERS
Clinton had affair and/or sexually assaulted ELIZABETH WARD GRACEN
Clinton had affair and/or used drugs with SHARLENE WILSON
Clinton had affair and/or used drugs with SALLY PERDUE
Clinton had affair with DOLLY KYLE BROWNING
Clinton sexually harassed PAULA JONES
Clinton sexually assaulted KATHLEEN WILLEY
Clinton sexually (and brutally) assaulted JUANITA BROADDRICK
Clinton smeared/destroyed LINDA TRIPP
Clinton groped CHRISTY ZERCHER
Clinton groped SANDRA ALLEN JAMES
Clinton sexually assaulted EILEEN WELLSTONE
Clinton sexually assaulted unnamed Oxford Student
Clinton sexually assaulted unnamed Yale Student
Clinton groped unnamed U. of Arkansas Student
Clinton had sexual relations with that woman, MONICA LEWINSKY


Seems that Bush’s problems center on whether or not he is correctly and legally executing the War on Terrorism (violating the rights of our sworn enemies.)


Seems that Clinton’s problems center on marital fidelity, inappropriate sexual relations, fraud, bribery, extortion and racketeering (violating the rights of our mothers, wives, sisters, daughters and other American citizens.)


AT THE END OF THE DAY WHICH SET OF PROBLEMS IS MORE “PRESIDENTIAL?”

To Jersey Girl
It took you three months to finish and respond to Ann's book?

And just who is "being nasty, screaming and howling...........
posting smears..........
Mirror, please!

Re Kristen Breitweister's letter
While it is outrageous (yes, outrageous!) nearly 3000 persons, including Ms Breitweister's husband, were murdered in the WTC it is sickening to see those murders used for political grandstanding.
I expect Ann Coulter and the rest of us would not be so revolted were Ms Breitweister and her cohorts also demanding an explanation from the previous administration which essentially kicked the terrorist can down the road to the Bush administration.
Sadly, Kristen seems to have joined the ranks of Cindy Sheehan in this shameless ploy. I doubt either have gotten over the 2000 and 2004 elections and are just using the death of loved ones to promote their political aims.

More important things
Those of you who think that our president should stand and scream back at these Lib-o-nuts have to think better of it.
He has his plate full right now( not like the previous nutjob Pres) who said he had so much fun in the oval office.
This Commander and Chief is being just that and it sure is no fun for him.
He is busy trying to protect even the Lib-o-nuts butts. God only knows why.

Bush is a good man
I don't understand why he has been so kind to those who have smacked him about like an unloved step-child.
Kennedy got all mushy with the education bill and then weeks later called the president incompetent and a liar in the well of the Senate.
Reid promised to work with the president and now says he is 'incompetent and a liar'. Kerry, et al voted for before they were against the war on terror.
Anyone with half, no make that a quarter, of a brain knows full well the Dems had no intention of unipartisanship - sadly, Bush, like all good Texans, took them at their word and is now paying a costly price.
Were I him, I would consider resigning and letting Cheney kick the insolent a**es.

"That's SO Nancy!"
"That's SO Nancy!" Pelosi and "Think of a thumb" Clinton define the liberals' vulnerability in up-coming elections.

Time to Wake up
We have wholesale treason going on in Washington, D.C.

Selling off our infrastructure

Passing one after another non-free trade agreements, such as GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, OMAN and are trying for the FTAA, that are providing special rules for a select group of international companies and resulting in much of our industry and jobs to be shipped overseas.

Our country is being invaded by Mexico, yet the government is doing little to stop it. All they seem interested in doing is passing an amnesty bill. We have people here that outwardly advocate the overthrow of a part of our country for "Aztlan" or La Reconquista. Yet, our government sits idly by.

Our country is currently being merged with Canada and Mexico into a North American Union. If this is completed, our Constitution will be gone. Ms. Schlafly has the best repository of articles on this topic that I've seen on her site.
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/index.html

Our ports are not being protected. Everyone was all upset about the Dubai ports deal and thought it was handled, but it was not. The ports still are in their control and with the passage of the OMAN non-free trade agreement, there will likely be more owned by Middle Easterners.

Our government (the peanut farmer) gave away a the Panama Canal which was vital to our national security. The Communist Chinese are all the canal, including the Chinese military.

We have allowed Cosco, which is owned by the Communist Chinese government to be in a large number of our ports. They plan to soon be operating ports in Texas.

Have we lost our cotton pickin' minds? Our government is turning our country into a surveillance grid for supposed National Security, while our borders and ports remain wide open. This makes NO sense whatsoever.

We are being lied to folks. It's time for us to WAKE UP!!!!

Video
Watch the documentary, TERROR STORM on google video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terror+storm&hl=en

It will answer a lot of questions about what is going on today.

Lisa - textbook (comic book) liberal
The fact that all the liberals have to buttress their immoral, deceptive, lame and un-American arguments are a hand-full of “drama mamas” proves the point for Bush and his pro-American ideology. What are the Jersey Girls, three or four 9/11 widows out of hundreds of 9/11 widows???? There are literally hundreds of 9/11 survivors, widows, widowers, parents, siblings etc on TV, in magazines, in books etc that support the President and America. All the left can do is grandstand three dim-witted malcontents.

Same for Cindy Sheehan. Of the thousands of Gold-Star parents and surviving spouses all the left can come up with is some lunatic broad who has been denounced by the rest of her family.

Regarding you Lisa, you stated “You are a pig … A souless pig with long hair and a long face … we can't accuse you of that because you have no husband. Keep it that way and make some man very happy … Do the world a favor & get lost”

Thank you for so ably demonstrating what a liberal is.

PS – 99.9% of the American male population (that is straight) thinks Ann is smoking hot beautiful. Think about this: which lady stands the greatest chance of making “some man happy?” A gorgeous, well educated, extremely successful blonde – or – some liberal troll who can do nothing but make personal attacks on a bog.

Lisa - textbook (comic book) liberal
Lisa stated "P.S. Who are you crucifying in this column? I have not nor will I ever bother to find out."

Thanks again for ably demonstrating what a liberal is. What kind of sane, reasonable person makes posts on a blog and then admits that she hasn't read the article in question? And to top it off you admit you won't even read the article/thoughts of the person you attack! Lisa's liberalism = an emotional, uninformed, immoral position.

Well at least you keep you post under 900 words wish is better than most of the Ann Coulter hating Moon Bats.

Neocon rebuttals
Reaganite, I hate to tell you, but at least 1/2 of the 9-11 families do not believe the story being dished out by this administration and the 9-11 Commission.

As far as Ann Coulter is concerned, I don't know as if I would have put it like Lisa did, but I do not think Ann is a good figurehead for anything that portends to be conservative. By the way, conservative ideals used to include:

- Fiscal responsibility for government
- Personal responsibility
- Limited Constitutional government, with the majority of powers left to the states and the people.

How do you think this administration has done on these things?

By the way, before you go off... when I was just a small child, I was handing out literature for Goldwater's campaign. My first vote as an adult was for President Reagan.

What's the frequency Liberty?
What is meant by your statement “… at least ½ of the 9-11 families do not believe the story being dished out by this administration and 9-11 commission?”

First what is the “story?” Are you referring to intelligence failures, conspiracy theories, opposition to the War on Terror etc?

Secondly what is the source for your information? Are you referring to a poll, survey, interviews, focus groups, report etc?

How many people are represented in your “… at least ½ of the 9-11 families” group? What is the head count of this group? I assume you are talking about the relatives of approximately 1500 (1/2 of 3000) of victims who perished on 9-11.

Here is an interview for you
You can listen to this, Reaganite, and decide for yourself. It is an interview with Bill Doyle, who reportedly heads up the largest 9-11 family organization. His son was one of those killed on 9-11.

http://www.bestsharing.com/files/ms00193476/Doyle911.mp3.html
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