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Monday, August 21, 2006
Chuck Colson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Islamic Fascists?
by Chuck Colson
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Shortly after British authorities announced that they had foiled a plot to bomb transcontinental flights, President Bush called it a “stark reminder” that the United States is “at war with Islamic fascists.”

The president’s comments triggered a series of responses. The Saudi government rejected even the possibility of Islamic fascism. A spokesman for King Abdullah said that “what Islam is being charged with today, such as fascism, is primarily the result of Western cultural heritage.”

Closer to home, American liberals, of course, called it politically incorrect to say this. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR, suggested that expressions like “Islamic fascists” might inadvertently “start a religious war against Islam and Muslims.” It complained that the expression “attaches the religion of Islam to tyranny and fascism, rather than isolating the threat to a specific group of individuals...”

If I didn’t know better, I would have thought that CAIR was kidding. The expression “Islamic fascism” is used in order to distinguish between ordinary Muslims and the perpetrators of terrorism. It serves also to make a point that our enemy isn’t Islam itself, but a particular kind of Islam that perpetrates terrorism and tyranny. These are the distinctions that groups like CAIR ought to be supporting.

That still leaves the question: Is it right to call the bin Ladens of the world “Islamic fascists”? The answer is “yes.” The president was right on.

As Stephen Morris of Johns Hopkins recently wrote, fascism’s goal is to “achieve national greatness” through totalitarian control of both political and social life; it seeks to create an empire; and it “aspires to re-create a mythical past.”

Sound familiar? It should. What was true of Germany and Italy in the 1930s and ’40s is also true of groups like Iran, al-Qaeda, and millions of Islamic radicals today.

Countries like Iran and Afghanistan under the Taliban are and were undeniably totalitarian. All aspects of life, not just politics, are subject to strict ideological control.

Nor can radical Islam’s imperial ambitions be denied. Iran, al-Qaeda, and even Hamas talk about an Islamic empire stretching from India to the Iberian peninsula. What Morris says about aspiring to “re-create a mythical past” is evident in bin Laden’s continuing references to the “tragedy of Andalusia” and Hamas’s demands for the return of Seville. The Iranians take it a step further and see themselves as ushering in a messianic age.

The fascist influence on today’s Islamic terrorists is made crystal clear in the book In the Shade of the Koran written by an Egyptian radical named Sayyid Qutb and widely read today by jihadists all over the world. Qutb was profoundly influenced by the same anti-Semitic liberal intellectuals in Europe who shaped Hitler’s demonic vision. Though Qutb was executed, his teachings profoundly influenced Osama bin Laden.

Today’s Islamic fascists share with their Nazi counterparts violence and intimidation as their tactics. And now, as in World War II, free people of all faiths must oppose them. But wisdom begins with a willingness to learn from history and call things by their proper name, which is precisely what the president did.


For further reading and information:

William Shawcross, “Yes, the Problem Is ‘Islamic Fascism’,” Jerusalem Post, 14 August 2006.

Stephen J. Morris, “It Is Islamic Fascism,” The Australian, 14 August 2006.

David Ignatius, “Are We Fighting ‘Islamic Fascists’?” Washington Post, 18 August 2006, A21.

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About The Author
Chuck Colson was the Chief Counsel for Richard Nixon and served time in prison for Watergate-related charges. In 1976, Colson founded Prison Fellowship Ministries, which, in collaboration with churches of all confessions and denominations, has become the world's largest outreach to prisoners, ex-prisoners, crime victims, and their families.
 
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Sayyid Qutb...
...may have been influenced by the anti-Semitic liberal intellectuals in Europe, but he also spent about three years here in the U.S., specifically at what is now the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley, Colorado. He was horrified by what he must have seen as our lax morals and loose women in the late 40's. See my blog, specifically the entry for 7/23 "An Interesting Take on Islam," for more.

"If I didn’t know better, I would have
thought that CAIR was kidding."

CAIR doesn't kid. That would be because they are part and parcel of the Islamic fascists.

Ahem
I do believe that we are not supposed to notice that all of these terrorists have one thing in common. Islam.

Phoenix Lady-An Interesting Take/Islam
I clicked on your name to read your blog dated 7/23 but that wasn't there, how do I find your blogs? Thanks.

One Small Detail
Facism, *technically*, is putting the *state* in charge over the individual.

Islamic fanatics don't really want a "state", they want their *religion* to be in charge. They want all laws to come directly from the Koran.

Of course, in order to enforce these religious laws, they'll need a facist state, so when all is said and done, it really is facism after all.

Islamic Fascists?
There is the misnomer of the criteria. Do we mean the citizens that hold the Muslims or do we mean to attack the Muslim religion en-mass. This is wrong. In every box, we may find few rotten apples. It does not mean a total boycott from the import of that country. We fail to under and our own powers that have gone fragile and we have erred only to blame the other.

It's ironic that
Mr. Colson ended his well meaning column by saying..

"But wisdom begins with a willingness to learn from history and call things by their proper name, which is precisely what the president did."

That is not what President Bush did. He simply labeled a segment of our enemy. And Mr. Closon concurs by saying "It serves also to make a point that our enemy isn’t Islam itself, but a particular kind of Islam that perpetrates terrorism and tyranny." Both are trying to be PC in order not to offend.

Our enemy, and the enemy to the free world, is all people who believe and follow the teachings of Islam. Islam is a barbaric, murderous cult that follow the teachings of the demented pervert Muhammad they call a prophet. Which for them has become a form of religious worship. What we are going to do about it remains to be seen. But labeling a segment is like calling the infantry part of an army the bad guys, while dismissing the rest of the forces.

WE are at war with MUSLIMS
Islam is THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION with its violent intolerant covenants written out in the Koran and Hadith (words and deeds of Muhammad that are to be emulated).

Its a murderous cult that kills even their own if they try to leave and their own daughters for marrying the man she loves.

It must be shut down in America or it will lead to blood in our streets.

Goshawk is correct
"Moderate" Islam. whatever that is, is analogous to the German people of the mid 1930's. Most average Germans were not Nazi party members, but they cheered on the party's successes and came to believe in and support the core ideology. Poll after poll in the Islamic world has shown overwhelming support for Bin Laden and Al Qeada while ascribing outlandish paranoia and conspiracy theories on Jews... THe "moderates" may not be shooting at us, but they celebrate every time sombody does, for it reminds them of the years when Islam was conquering the West and Christendom reeled from succesive Jihads. Each blow struck by the Islamo-fascists convinces Islam as a whole that compromise and peace are cowardly and evil. They want victory more then peace, and will stop at nothing to achive their goal of a worldwide Islamic Caliphate. The "moderates" are cheering every goose-step along the way.

Islam is evil
The term fascist is not correct when applied to Muslims. The term is Italian and was used to describe a bundle of sticks (like firewood) tied together. We had a picture of this on the back of our old dimes. The bundle of wood had a small hatchet sticking out. This was a picture of a fascia.

The image was supposed to show the benefit of collectivism. Fascism was just one of the many socialist movements in the early part of the 20th century. The left has gone to great lengths in political revisionism to tar conservatives with the label “fascist”. However, historically the battle between fascists and communists was just between two flavors of collectivism.

President Bush in his unending effort to be politically correct and suck up to people who will never like him anyway uses phrases like, “Islam is a religion of peace”. Either he is lying to appease those who would object or he is too stupid to really understand. Neither possibility puts him in a favorable light.

While Muslims may use some tactics familiar to the communists, such as using civilians a shields and getting the local authorities to over react and then blaming the government for violence, they have nothing in common with the political objectives of communists (who can more accurately be called fascists).

Calling Muslims fascists is like calling Genghis Kahn a fascist. Islam is about surrender. It has always been done at the point of a sword. Islam has always been about conquest. It is evil and when we paint it as a “religion of peace” our lies and delusions only serve to make us less able to defend ourselves.

It is unfortunate the Chuck thinks wisdom comes from learning history. Wisdom is not learned, it comes from God. Because we have allowed atheists in colleges free access to our children, each generation has become more atheistic. The further we get from God, the more foolish we become.

Islam is intrinsically evil. Because politicians pander to brain dead soccer moms who just want to feel good, no one wants to say anything that makes anyone feel bad. The solution to the evil of Islam is for America to become a Christian nation again. Once we return to the Jesus of the Bible and not some “higher power” interested in our self-esteem, we might get the wisdom to see the danger that faces us.

Shoulda known ...
Thanks to Charles Colson for revealing the origin of this term. I've always thought it was one of the stupidest misnomers I'd ever heard. Now I know why. It originated with George Bush, the most intellectually stunted president in the nation's history.

Separation of church and state
Has there ever been a better argument for the separation of "church and state" than Islam?

Islam is a faith that commands religious, political, and cultural integration with a belief system that imbues its leaders with tremendous power. Representative democracy is its worst nightmare.

Finally!
All I know is that, suddenly, Mr. Bush went from "a religion of peace" to naming it for what it really is... "islamofacism"! When did he start doing that? He's finally calling the "kettle black"! And that's what we need in our "representative democracy" (and there's another story, really, because it should be called a mercantilism, not democracy)... representatives who are willing to risk their precious hinies to say the truth! That is what makes me believe Mr. Bush even more than the other "representatives" in our "elected" government... his willingness to stand up to them and stand firm for what he believes is what is in the best interest for the American public.

Luis, Anti-Sociliast, Brian R - words...
I am posting this rebuttal here, because I cannot be certain that any of you will return to previous threads.

Every-one - language - words - COUNT.

Dear Luis - thanks for "getting it".

Dear Anti - YES. I use VERY strong language - because it's ALL about language. Semiotics.

"Nice", polite, delicate verbiage ONLY mitigates the reality of the situation on the ground. Diplomatic language is SPECIFICALLY designed to soften, to placate, to diffuse....to smooth over, and pat down.

This destroys our FOCUS. Our URGENCY. Our very REALITY.

We need to be MEAN. We need to HATE. We NEED strong, DEADLY emotions- and we NEED to act on them. We are dealing with a thought system - IS-SLIME - (not "Islam" - because this is a proper noun. The correct name. This betokens respect. I do NOT respect sand n!ggers. I HATE them - and I want them DEAD. ALL of them - as I've stated before - any little sand n!glet blown to bits, today, means some little human child - Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Rastafari, whatever - gets to NOT be blown to bits, tomorrow) - a thought system that is PURE hatred, and annihilation.

It's a fight to the DEATH. THEY fight for death. WE fight for Civilization, Beauty, Free Will, Education, and Advancement of Human Thought and Enlightenment - LIFE, itself.

We MUST win.

We are NOT in a drawing room. Allow yourselves to HATE. To disdain, and LOATHE. To insult, deride, and DE-HUMANIZE. These are cleansing, energizing, and VERY real emotions, and reactions. That are a HEALTHY response to the subhuman demons that are publicly, OPENLY, brazenly dedicated ot our destruction. Why do you CARE about the (alleged) humanity, of the Raggies, when they do NOT extend the same courtesy to YOU? And have NO intentions of doing so? This is YOUR flaw - your false vanity. "You are better than that"...aren't you? Well I'm NOT - and I'm prepared to do ANYTHING to crush THEM. These savages are NOT the beautiful, civilized, gifted Jews of Hitler's Germany. Sand n!ggers are VICIOUS, blood-drenched monsters. DERANGED by the ideology OF their death cult.

There must be NO mercy, and no quarter. And we WILL LOSE - unless we determine we will annihilate this barbarous vermin - for once - and ALL.

And Brian R - and the rest of you - that assert that "The are not all like that" - prove it. PROVE it. You do NOT know what goes on behind THEIR very closed doors. I'll bet I can provide a lot more examples to prove MY assertions. Even so - so what? SO WHAT? Did we worry about "the good ones" regarding the Germans, in WWII? Or all the Japanese civilians. Our enemies are counting on our decency, and kindness, and fair-mindednees - in order to DESTROY us. These positive traits are a liability - and a luxury. We owe them NOTHING

ajhil
ajhil writes:

"Thanks to Charles Colson for revealing the origin of this term. I've always thought it was one of the stupidest misnomers I'd ever heard. Now I know why. It originated with George Bush, the most intellectually stunted president in the nation's history."

You just keep telling yourself that, Ajhil...

PearlGirl
Re: Your post to Harper.

I only see one post on this thread from Harper... have re-read it fives times... and I sure don't see what you are so exorcised about! Other than a disagreement about "Islam" being a religion, it seems to me you two are roughly on the same page.

Maybe I have missed other posts by Harper on other threads... but I sure don't see anything in THIS post to get be so angry about.

- Primus

Goshawk
I have been saying for a while, Islam is an Army. Islam is a religion that is an army and that army is 1 Billion strong. There is no such thing as 'Moderate' muslims. There are only rear-area troops. These are the supply clerks, the disbursing clerks, the intelligence corps and the spies. The 'Moderates' are the spies. They first move into a country, remain peaceful and unobtrusive. They may spend years in the new country as peaceful 'Moderate' muslims. But they are observing, probing and testing the fabric of the civilization the strength of the government the will of the people. They have no allegiance to the new country. Their allegiance is to Islam, to their Army. When they time comes, they will join the 'Islamofacists' in the streets. They are ALL in Jihad against non-muslims. Worldwide. The 'Islamofacists' are the shock troops, they are the front line, they are the SS corps of Islam. But believe me, we are at war with the largest Army we have ever faced. And it looks like it is getting ready to obtain Nukes...

Goshawk
I have been saying for a while, Islam is an Army. Islam is a religion that is an army and that army is 1 Billion strong. There is no such thing as 'Moderate' muslims. There are only rear-area troops. These are the supply clerks, the disbursing clerks, the intelligence corps and the spies. The 'Moderates' are the spies. They first move into a country, remain peaceful and unobtrusive. They may spend years in the new country as peaceful 'Moderate' muslims. But they are observing, probing and testing the fabric of the civilization the strength of the government the will of the people. They have no allegiance to the new country. Their allegiance is to Islam, to their Army. When the time comes, they will join the 'Islamofacists' in the streets. They are ALL in Jihad against non-muslims. Worldwide. The 'Islamofacists' are the shock troops, they are the front line, they are the SS corps of Islam. But believe me, we are at war with the largest Army we have ever faced. And it looks like it is getting ready to obtain Nukes...

flymulla
If it were true that the average citizen of, say, Iran were not in agreement with the absolute evil that is the "religion" their leaders foist upon them, then why do they themselves participate in that evil? The leaders of Iran would be unable to whip a 16-year-old multiple rape victem if they were unable to find someone to weild said whip. They would be unable to hand a mantally disturbed teenager for having sex with an unmarried man if they could not find someone to tie the noose around her neck and operate the crane she was tortured to death with. They would be unable to stone to death women who commit adultery if they were unable to find people to throw those stones.

No, I believe we can safely say that "Islamofascist" describes most in the Islamic Arab, Islamic Persian, and Islamic Northern African world.

Islamic Fascists? Yes!
Good grief! I am so tired of political correctness and world leaders who ignore what is right in front of their faces. This must be the only war ever fought where the combatants are not allowed to call their enemy by their true name. While the true nature of Islam may be peaceful, there are fascist terrorists who have hijacked that religion, twisted its values and molded them to fit their destructive goals. They fight in the name of Islam, and they insist that their terrorist tactics are the road to destroy their Judeo-Christian enemies and spread Islam throughout the entire world. And we are supposed to scratch our heads and think of a nice name to call them that won't offend the true Islamic community? I will do that when the Islamic community stands up and denounces terrorists and helps us to fight those who are blackening the name and essence of their religion......instead of defending their actions and supporting them in countless ways. For every ONE Islam believer who has spoken out against terrorism, I have seen numerous others carrying signs swearing to bring down the American way of life........and many of them live right here among us. So, the answer to "Islamic Fascists?" is a definite and resounding YES. It's time for America to call a spade a spade!


But...
"Islamic Fascist" is redundant. Just like saying 'Nazi Fascist' or 'Socialist Communist'... or 'silly liberal'.

Sloopy: right on the money
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Of course it is
In the past I have written that Islam is inherently fascistic. Shari'a law is a way for the Ayatollahs, Imams, and other clerics to maintain strict control over their adherents. Punishment for violating shari'a law is swift and painful and often humiliating. To speak out against an injustice would be committing suicide. Power and control are tools utilized to there mazimum extent by Islamic leaders. The less ability a normal man has to make decisions the more he will allow others to decide for him. This is exactly what the "Caliphate" wants. I do not seperate Islamic Fascists from the "average everyday" muslim.

PearlGirl
I think you're responding to my post on the other column, but it's the same topic, so I guess we can address it here.

If you'll remember, my disagreement with you was only one of degree, not substance. Also, I did agree in that, as NRA (AKA Gunny) wrote, silence = consent, and the silence of the entire Islamic community is deafening, other than to constantly squawk about profiling.

However, let's be realistic. There's no monolithism in any sizeable grouping. And if the proof is simply negativism, then all it takes is one example to prove the thesis. In that case, I can point to some of my own family members. A few of them are Moslems, and they are firmly against the terrs.

Does that clarify?

ajhil: re our 8/16 discussion
I left you a final post on the column on the Towers, if you haven't seen it yet.

ISLAMIC FACIST (NAZI)
TO NOTE:

THE NAZI'S MADE THEIR HOME AFTER THE DEFEAT OF GERMANY IN TWO MAJOR AREAS, THE SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRY OF ARGENTINA AND THE MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRIES, ARABIA, IRAQ AND IRAN AND THE CAMPAIGN OF HATE HAS NEVER STOPPED. THE AMAZING PART IS THAT THE NAZI'S CONSIDERED ALL OTHER RACES IMPERFECT IF THEY DID NOT HAVE THE VAHALLA FEATURES OF THE NORDIC RACE AND YET THEY TOOK REFUGE IN PLACES WHERE RACES THEY DISPISED WERE THE MAJORITY.

ANY PORT IN A STORM?

LH

Buck
I agree with your analysis completely and have said roughly the same elsewhere. To me it is the only logical interpretation of the problem. The sooner Americans and the rest of the free world understand this. The better the chances of overcoming the onslaught.

It's amazing to me how any sane human being can, in the name of Peace, appease and excuse this murderous, barbaric hoard by saying, basically, it's just a few bad apples in the group! Nothing could be farther from the truth!

If we Americans discovered a subculture that we found raises there children from birth to be human bombs, or sold their existing
children for $25,000 to be used for the same purpose. We would move to destroy them immediately! But it is not a subculture in Islam, it is their way of life! And that's why the Muslims are dead silent. Outfits like CAIR serve only to deflect attention from Islams deadly purpose.

Colson's " definition"
I agree with King Abdullah. the very definition fothe word belies your argument. There is no" nationalism" involved with UBL, or AlQueda ,or that ilk, infact, I would posit, that the USA as it is currently " governed" is far more Fascistic than any Arab Group, be it Al queda , Hamas, Or Hezbollah...the key word iS NATIONLISM!!

Secular fascism
"Totalitarian control of both religious and social life"? Sounds like the ACLU-PFAW-NOW-NEA secular agenda.

Today's evidence: The mayor of Watertown, NY, has publically criticized a pastor-city councilman for "disturbing remarks" in his church affairs. (The pastor won't let a woman teach men.)

The mayor of Watertown, NY, should be under scrutiny for breaching the wall of separation between church and state!

See "Freedom of Religion Under Fire"
www.redletterideas.com

Two Points
Two points are needed here:

1) The term Islamic Fascist or Islamic Fascism is a contradiction. Fascism as an ideology in its heyday (the 1920s to the 1940s) taught what we today call moral relativism, namely, that "right" and "wrong" are purely subjective and mean whatever any one individual says they mean. The object, ironically, was to give maximum freedom to the individual, for example, the Nazi superman was a being intended to be free to live and act "beyond good and evil," unrestrained by law, government, religion, culture, or anything else. Islam most clearly rejects moral relativism and teaches that the individual is subordinate to the will of Allah. The proper term for Islamics is thus "religious fanatics." They are NOT fascists in the true sense of that term.

2)As a long-term strategy, the West may have to think about hermetically sealing off the Islamic nations from the rest of humanity. This containment may be the only realistic answer.

Islam and Terrorists
It is stated in this aricle that CAIR wants us to seek out individuals responsible for terrorist acts but CAIR is ignoring the fact that all of these individuals all of these groups are Islamic. It was good to see Bush change from saying Islam is peaceful and Islam is enobling to the lives of men and women to using the term Islamo Fascist but the American public deserves more than that and has since 9/11. A debate on the connection between the Koran, Islam and terrorism should have taken place immediately in the Media and in Congressional Committees right after 9/11. You cannot fight a war without identifying and then destroying your enemy. If there are Muslims who want to join us in the fight against the Jihadists, the Islamo Fascists, Radical Islam or whatever term is decided on then they are welcome but those who don't speak out against the ones they claim have hijacked their religion must be assumed to be supporting Jihad which is the holy war to impose Sharia law on the entire world. Because that war is not only against us the Infidels but those Muslims who reject Jihad and who are considered Kafirs and also subject to a death sentence also.

Islamic Fascists fight is our fight
The Muslin's from around the world believe all Muslin fights are connected and should be viewed as one fight with one goal. Islamic justice and Islamic rule. It doesn't matter if it's the Islamic Fascists or the Muslin store owner or a second generation Muslin. We are told we can't say what the Islamic Fascists is doing is right or wrong. We don't know what they're going through so killing by the Islamic Fascist shouldn't be looked upon as evil. Even the ordinary Muslin will say labeling them as terrorists, killers, fascists, or even evil is a Western cultural term. Understanding the evil the Islamic Fascist does and dismissing it by Muslins who don't kill says your fight is our fight even it kills innocent civilians. The only way you can dismiss the evil the Islamic Fascists does is to embrace the evil intent of those who love to kill.

Pot and Kettle
While I don't despute your arguement that Islamic-Fascism is a serious threat to this country, couldn't one argue that Bush's policies pose an equally serious threat of imposing fascism here? I refere you to "http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm" for futher details.

jimbo Has It Right
Islamic fascist is redundant.

I'd really like to believe that there are moderate Muslims but I'm still waiting to hear from any.

Instead of objecting to the term, CAIR ought to be applauding its use since "Islamic fascist" at least suggests that there might be Muslims who are not fascists.

camanintx
Am, yes, we've all heard the deeply ignorant and incoherent far left spew mindless drivel about how Bush is Hitler and America is a fascist country...You're on the wrong website. Here, we don't entertain people who are on the same intellectual level as the people who deny the Holocaust...Ah, what's the hell, I just can't resist: If you were living in a fascist country, the secret police would already be at your door for deriding fascism.

camanintx
Am, yes, we've all heard the deeply ignorant and incoherent far left spew mindless drivel about how Bush is Hitler and America is a facist state. You're on the wrong website bud. Here we don't humor people who are on the same intellectual level as the people who deny the Holocaust. Ah what's the hell, I just can't resist: if this was a fascist country, the secret police would already be at your door for deriding fascism.


Thrasybulus
I hope you can reason better than you can read. I implied we could become fascist, not that we were.

Islamic Facism
We can definitely go back further than WWII to document the intertwining of the Islamic faith and facism. A relationship between Hitler and Hajj Amin al-Husseini is well documented. Husseini was the grand mufti of Jerusalem and the leader of Muslim fundamentalists who resided in Berlin as a welcome guest of the Nazis throughout the years of the Holocaust.

Husseini's career as a terrorist began in April of 1920 when he and his followers went on a rampage killing five Jews and wounding 211 others. Sadly, he was handled with kid gloves by the British and managed to get appointed to his prestigous post in 1922.

The thing I remember most about him was that when he visited Auschwitz during the war, he complained to Hitler that the SS was not killing the Jews fast enough

He brought Nazi commandos to Egypt to teach Yasser Arafat how to fight against Israel and Arafat first shed Jewish blood against Israel in 1947.

Portions of Muslim anti-Semitism date back as far as the Middle Ages. In recent decades the dehumanizing images of Jews and Israel have penetrated the body politic to constitute a new warrant for genocide.

Husseini is a hero of the PLO and a founder of the radical Palestine National Movement It would have been interesting to see how well the Nazi's would have tolerated the Muslims had they succeeded in their world conquest.

Are the Islamic nations facist? You bet they are. Just watch who their friend are.

caman
The implication that "we could become fascist" is just as idiotic as the assertion that we already are.

Loving our enemies
Islam is our enemy, yet aren't there good people within Islam who want to follow God? Shouldn't we pray for these people and ask them to read our Bible?

I am uncomfortable with the anger and hate we read in some of these posts. How can we offer Islam something better unless we love them more? Many Christian aid organizations offer help to Islamic countries. That seems the right way. We ought to out-do Hizbollah in Lebanon's rebuilding, all the while teaching tolerance and love.

Primus54 and BrianR

ajhil writes:

"Thanks to Charles Colson for revealing the origin of this term. I've always thought it was one of the stupidest misnomers I'd ever heard. Now I know why. It originated with George Bush, the most intellectually stunted president in the nation's history."

Regarding Ajhil:
Did you guys know that Ajhil is opposed to ad- hominem attacks????

He refuses to speak to people who make such attacks.

It must be very lonely in his head.

This might explaing some things...



Once dishonest, always dishonest . . .
I see where Chucky, one of the most damaging figures in American history, refers to the Saudis in the second paragraph, then no more.

Wouldn't want to belabor the fact that the Saudis are in tight with American oil interests (including the White House), so much that it steers our incompetent foreign policy.

And, of course,
the Saudi regime would stand among the fascists, by our standard.

sloopy: LOL

Can't Take the Heat
Like Chuck Colson, I was happy to hear President Bush use the Term "Islamic Fascists." It's about time our leader called a spade a spade. However, as is par for the course he abandoned the term just a few days later. It is clear that he caved under the pressure of public opinion and political correctness. With the mid-term elections not to far away it's back to politics as usual. Let's just try to keep everybody happy, including the Saudis and CAIR.

PearlGirl Nailed It!
Your post is exactly what we need to do and exactly what the leftists don't want to hear. The reality of this fight we're in is that we (USA, UK, Australia, etc) need to admit to ourselves that it's a good thing to want terrorists dead. Why don't we hear about the number of Islamo-Fascists KIA? We only hear of our allies' (and our own) dead.

Goshawk
Hey man, you're absolutely right. I'm proud of you for saying that, because the next evolution in the West will be towards your perspective, unless of course a giant meteor strikes the middle east and eliminates the problem of Islamic expansionism for us.

The problem is overuse of 'fascist'
The difficulty with describing fascism is that the word has become a throw-away term for discipline. Your parents are fascists if they won't let you wear your thong bikini to church, make long distance calls to rock bands, stay out all night with roving gangs of people you don't know, or give you $5,000 per week allowance. Your teachers are fascists if they make you pay attention, hand in your homework, and turn off your cell phone in class. And the government is fascist if it stops you from doing what you want to do the instant you think of it, and doesn't stand between you and the consequences of your actions.

The difficulty is of course that the news media people were educated in the same Government Hatcheries and they don't know what it is either. They don't know what Hitler stood for or what he aspired to -- they won't read, and a man who won't read is no different from a man who can't read. Hitler was a man who wanted to spoil peoples' fun and make them go to bed at a decent hour, wash that stuff off their faces, change that skirt and put down the duckie. That is what they mean when they say "Bush = Hitler."

The difficulty is due to the growing adolescence of the Western World. Although 8,000 boomers turn 60 every day and the average age in the West is now approaching 40, the Western World is full of people crying because the grownups continue to insist on spoiling their fun. And like adolescents everywhere, they expect those grownups to give them everything they want and at the same time to keep those nonexistent bad guys from actually doing them any harm.

What's the answer? Stand back and let it fall. Let's see what happens when a world full of teenagers meet people whose idea is not to argue with them but to kill them.

DocJ, well said
but don't forget "speaking truth in love" in your list as well.

Islam IS a false and evil religion, and calling it a "religion of peace" helps neither them nor us.


Lydia
Lydia:
Freedom of speech is real EASY when it costs you NOTHING.

Who would know better than ..... you?

Lydia
Lydia:
Freedom of speech is real EASY when it costs you NOTHING.

Who would know better than ..... you?

Movwater
According to Roger Scruton in an editorial for the Wall Street Journal, the term Islamofascism was coined by socialist French writer Maxine Rodinsol(1915-2004) as a description of the Iranian Revoloution in 1979. This and other essays on Islamic radicalism may be found at RealClearPolitics.com

Islamo-Fascism
Idaho writes:

N_Idaho_SOB writes: Monday, August, 21, 2006 8:34 PM
"What I want is.......
One...... just one Muslim Cleric to interpret the Koran in a different way "

Sorry but that just isn't possible. The Koran is what it is - a mandate to subjugate all of humanity under the rule of Islam.

Look around at the Muslim world. There are no economically viable and tolerant Muslim nations, just hideous thugocracies and theocracies that are stuck in the 7th century. Between the culture and the theology, there is little hope that Islam and the rest of the world can ever peacefully co-exist.

Tell your Newspapers
There is no point for any of us to sit here and comment on something everyone of us agrees on. Did you see the survey? Only 2% of people visiting sites like this are democrats. The ignorant do not seek knowledge. Everyone posting these columns must spread the word by writing to more used but less informative newspapers. While Rush Limbaugh and Fox News have become the most listened to radio and tv stations there are many more who do not seek the blogs, we must go to them.

Islamofascists
fascism:
# Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

# Oppressive, dictatorial control.
============================
Those who say it isn't fascism because we are dealing with a religion have a point or would have, had we not seen the "religion" take over the government of nations and then use that government, its leaders, its power, etc. to "rule" like a dictator with, as the definition outlines, "centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

Let's look at it. Dictator? Ahmadinejad who no longer listens to his people but rather, in his own words, "the 12th Imam." Or the Islamic leaders who allow sharia law be applied to all its citizens regardless of faith. Or, like, some leaders of government in the middle east that say "kill all infidels and Jews." Sounds racist to me. Only "Arabs" are fit to live according to some and they go as far as to say only Arabs that support the extreme view of Islam are fit to live. The rest are also worthy of death. What about their censorship. That is also going on in the Islamic nations being led by leaders who answer to Islamic relgious leaders instead of the people.

You can argue the definition but, those who refer to them as "Islamofascists" have many points in favor of their definition as given in the Dictionary. Those who disagree usually are giving it definitions that were more specific to past events rather than the actual written definition which can be applied to many "powers."

Fascism...
Nazism, communism, Islamism - the end results of each are similar. Death to those who don't agree with those in power.

Anti-Partisan_Righty aka Mike-Hihn

To bring everyone up to speed, APR and I were discussing good and bad verses in the Koran from Caroline Glick’s column “An Unmitigated Disaster” 08/13/06 which continued into Michael Medved’s column the next day.

I stated to him:

“You claim that all religions have ‘bad’ verses and ‘good’ verses in their books including Islam.

Muslims state that their book is the perfect word of God; that there are no ‘bad’ verses in it.

Who should I believe, you or the Muslims; and why?

Since you document everything you write so well, please document your answer. I would like to know your authority and standard.”

APR responded: “Huh.”

So I repeat the question: You claim that all religions have ‘bad’ verses and ‘good’ verses (APR’s words) in their books including Islam.

Muslims state that their book is the perfect word of God; that there are no ‘bad’ verses in it. Muslims give Allah as their authority believe that Allah gave the pure and perfect word to Mohammed and that man cannot judge His words.

Who should I believe, you or the Muslims; and why?

Because I am so retarded I need you to document your answers for my benefit in order to verify them. BTW “Huh” is not documentation.

The last time I asked this question you disappeared for days. I know you have work and all so you were probably busy. How long can I expect you to be gone this time?


Birdman, there really is NO
point with this guy. He takes the liberal modus operandi to EXTREMES. He throws out unfounded accusations in the most ARROGANT terms, refuses to back them up, follows that up with more extreme accusations, follows that up with a BLINDING inability to back them up again and then DISAPPEARS. We who love debate have all learned how to work around the liberal modus operandi when possible and live with it to some extent when it's not. But you just can't work with this guy. I dunno, he disappeared after that last spate and maybe that's because he was shamed. I guess it's always possible a leopard can change its spots. This is the first time I've seen him poke his head up after that last fracas, though, and his comment seems...just as strange as ever. Almost a threat. He seems to have some obsession with Lydia. I've looked to see what Lydia said to occasion his remark and can find no correlation on this thread. I dunno. You tell me.

sloopy

Not to worry sloopy. It was peaceful the last few days wasn't it? He disappears or he defends, either way we win.

Birdman
*SNORT*

True! ;)

Birdman
*SNORT*

True! ;)

Birdman
*SNORT*

True! ;)

Paul
Paul displays his near total ignorance:


paul writes: Monday, August, 21, 2006 8:10 AM
"WE are at war with MUSLIMS
Islam is THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION with its violent intolerant covenants written out in the Koran and Hadith (words and deeds of Muhammad that are to be emulated)."

You need to STOP learning from morons -- who exploit how gullible you are, and how little you know of both the Bible and the Quran.

The Quran, at its worst is no different than the Bible, where God orders: Immmediately stone to death any other profits or their followers, even if it means killing your own sons or daugthers (Deut. 13).


"It must be shut down in America or it will lead to blood in our streets. "


Hopefully, the blood will be yours -- and all the other Islamophobes here, before your lies trigger another 911. (Not saying such an attack would be justified merely under standard.

Here are some parts of the Quran that the moth-breathers have been keeping from you:

----
"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom God doth know. Whatever you shall spend in the cause of God shall be repaid unto you and you shall not be treated unjustly." (8:60)

"But if the enemy incline towards peace do you (also) incline towards peace and trust in God: for He is the one that hears and knows (all things).
Should they intend to deceive you verily God suffices you: He it is that has strengthened you with his aid and with (the company of) the believers." (8:61-62)

--------------------------------
Now the Quranic rules of fighting
---------------------------------

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you but do not agress; for God loves not agressors.
And slay them wherever you catch them and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

But if they cease God is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.

And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.

The prohibited month for the prohibited month and so for all things prohibited there is the law of equality. If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you transgress you likewise against him. But fear God and know that God is with those who restrain themselves. (2:190-194)

-----------------------
(the following verse is directed at polytheists, demanding tolerance of even them -- contrast that with Lydia's endorsement of genocide instead of conversion)

"Say: O you who reject Faith!
I worship not that which you worship
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which you have been wont to worship
Nor will you worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way and to me mine." (109:1-6)

------

(They are even prohibited from being overly harsh in their criticism -- also polytheists)

"Revile not those whom they call upon besides God lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did." (6:108)

------------------

(one final one, regarding other monotheists)

"And dispute not with the People of the Book except with means better (than mere disputation) unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say 'We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).'" (29:46)

------------------------

Reject the Jew-haters AND the Muslim-haters.

I starts right here and now.






Idaho SOB
N_Idaho_SOB writes: Monday, August, 21, 2006 8:34 PM
"What I want is.......
One...... just one Muslim Cleric to interpret the Koran in a different way from what we have all understood it to proclaim and come forward and preach to their flock, death is not the answer."

There are six different translations, much like the several version of the Bible.

But don't worry, your lies will fool at least half the posters here.



Idaho SOB
N_Idaho_SOB writes: Monday, August, 21, 2006 8:34 PM
"What I want is.......
One...... just one Muslim Cleric to interpret the Koran in a different way from what we have all understood it to proclaim and come forward and preach to their flock, death is not the answer."

There are six different translations, much like the several version of the Bible.

I'm not surprised you've never found them.

Boudicca
Wow! I am impressed. Not many people have heard of Boudicca, Queen of the Iceni. My compliments on your sense of history and general good taste. Onwards to Londinium...lol!

merrygoboy writes that . . .
. . . "Islamo-Fascist = NeoCon". Of course, he's just screaming for attention, but it's interesting that the far left of the political spectrum really thinks that fascism is a purely conservative modus operandi.

I see posts like his on other boards. The posters seem to equate Hitler's fascist National Socialism with conservative politics. Actually, the conservative party nominated Paul von Hindenberg, a war hero.

Hitler's National Socialism (Nazi) was from many fathers such as Freidrich Nietzsche (philosophy), Comte de Gobineau & Houston S. Chamberlain (racism), and, of course, Marx & Engels (socialism). Socialism and its evil fraternal twin communism are on the left side of the spectrum, not the right.

How many conservative fascist governments have there been? None.


He's BAAaaaaAAACK!
I suppose being shamed away, by your own words only lasts so long when you need attention. They say negative attention is better than none at all for some people.

Ok. I'll Play. Here is a demonstrative conversation with Anti-Partisan_Righty aka
Mikey Boy. APR is Anti-Partisan_Righty. ABAPR is anyone But APR.

Enjoy!

APR: WHAT?!? You don't LIKE what the militant Islamists are doing? Here's your sign.
ABAPR (anybody BUT APR): No. I'd rather live.
APR: Why, you bigot! Here's your sign.
ABAPR: I seem to detect a pattern. They say they want to kill us. And then they do kill us. And then they say they did it.
APR: PROVE IT!!!!! Here's your sign.
ABAPR then quotes countless Muslims leaders: DEATH TO ISRAEL! DEATH TO AMERICA!
ABAPR then names 20+ terrorists events.
APR: PROVE IT!!!!! Here's your sign.
ABAPR:I don't have to. They did it. They say they'll do it again. I believe them.
APR: Why you! You just show me where the Quran says that they can do that. Here's your sign.
ABAPR: Huh?
APR: Why you! You just show me where the Quran says that they can do that. Here's your sign.
ABAPR: Why?
APR: That PROVES it! You are wrong! WRONG I SAY!
You can't prove the Quran says to go out and Kill the Infidels! Here's your sign.
ABAPR: What are you talking about?... Oh, okay, just to shut you up. ABAPR then quotes a dozen murderous passages in the Quaran.
APR: AHAAAAA! YOU RACIST BIGOT! BIGOT! RACIST! I have proof!!!! You only quoted evil parts of the Quaran!!!!!!! BIGOTED RACIST!!! Here's your sign.
ABAPR: Huh?...but...that's what you asked …
APR: You christians are JUST as BAD. BAD! Here's your sign. APR then posts some similar biblical quotes.
ABAPR: But APR, Christians aren't doing those things en mass..and the few who do are condemned...
APR:RACIST! BIGOT! You only quoted bad parts of the QUARAN!!!!! YOU are EVILLL! Here's your sign.
ABAPR: You only quoted bad parts of the Bible. By that logic YOU are a bigot and evil.
APR: (we here then sound of APR whistling.)
ABAPR:I wonder why APR can't see me or hear me.
APR: (sounds of crickets chirping)
2 days later:
APR: RACIST! BIGOT! YOU only quote the bad parts of the Quaran!!! Here's your sign.
ABAPR: I don't think that you underst..
APR: Here's the PROOF! Here the LINK! (APR links to himself saying ABAPR is a RACIST! BIGOT! Here's your sign.
ABAPR: I think you made a mist..
APR: Look everybody! LOOOOOK! I have PROOOOOOF! See, ABAPR is for GENOCIDE! Here's your sign.

Moderate Muslims
I know some cool Muslims, but what happens is that the ones that don't buy into the rhetoric drop out of the community, or hunker down and stay out of the crossfire. There are some who speak up, but they risk severe flak from the true believers.
Yes, there are contradictions in the Koran, but the principle is that late revelation supercedes early revelation, and the early verses are from the period that Muslims were small minority trying to survive in a hostile environment, and the later verses are from the period that they had power. You can tell the difference! Another consideration is that the theological powers that be agreed to freeze interpretation in the 10th century, so there is no tradition of reinterpretation in light of changing conditions. And the verses quoted above about Islamic warfare basically say that you stop trying to kill the infidel if he submits to Islam. In practice, monotheist "People of the Book" are tolerated as second-class citizens, and polytheists are not tolerated if they do not convert.
One answer to this situation would be a mass defection to Christianity, or even Judaism, but apostacy is a death-penalty offense. There are some converts, but they risk their lives. Even when they read the Bible, they do it through the lens of the Koran, and are taught that where the two books differ we are wrong. Even speaking to a Muslim about another religion is illegal; Christians have been deported from Egypt, for example, for Christian TV programs broadcast from other countries that are accessible to Egyptians.

sloopy

Boy! I'm glad he is not on our side!

I never knew the Bible
was so anti-capitalism.

But now, thanks to Anti-Partisan Righty, I know this. We could never hope to reach such intellectual heights! How lucky we are to have such a fount of wisdom here in our midst!

Anti-Paritsan Righty: "You need to STOP learning from morons -- who exploit how gullible you are, and how little you know of both the Bible and the Quran. The Quran, at its worst is no different than the Bible, where God orders: Immmediately stone to death any other profits or their followers, even if it means killing your own sons or daugthers (Deut. 13)."

Apparently, if 'we people' stopped 'learning from morons', we'd know that we need to stone to death the 'profits'. If only we were not so 'gullible', so easily 'exploited'!

I'm not sure how you stone a 'profit'. I'm sure we'll be enlightened. Perhaps you just grab the little dividend by the balls, string it up next to all of your nickels and dimes and start throwing pebbles at them.

But our lesson is not over! Read on, and be enlightened!

Anti-Partisan Righty: "Here are some parts of the Quran that the moth-breathers have been keeping from you.."

Please save us from the 'moth breathers, Anti-Partisan Righty! Those evil secret keepers! Wait a minute...I'll bet they aren't too much of a problem anyway. I've heard that the 'moth breathers' are fatally attracted to the fire breathers, a situation that leads to their inevitable doom.

Now, for some further wisdom:

Anti-Partisan Righty: "Paul displays his near total ignorance"

Are you SURE that's not a typo, little fella? Maybe a spelling error? (Shhhh..I won't tell anyone here, but I think you may have a few problems in that whole english language grammar spelling thingie.) Here, let me help: When you are trying to spell Anti-Partisan Righty, it's not P A U L. It goes more like this: M I K E

Call them "Feral Arabs and kamelkazes"
Here’re two suggestions for a consistent perception of all things Islamic:
1) Try substituting the word “Satan” for the word “Allah,” however it is used, and see how that makes you feel.
2) In every reference or consideration, disconnect the kamelkazes (The etymological progression from “kamikaze/divine wind,” to “kamelkaze/camel fart,” is wonderfully appropriate!) from their declared “moral/religious” foundation by referring to them as “feral Arabs.”

You don’t have to have a Judeo-Christian value system or religious commitment to understand Rule 1. The greatest sin is to teach children to do evil in God’s name.

Regarding Rule 2: For sure, there are a few Muslim kamelkazes who are not Arabs, but most of those Persians, Pakistanis, Africans, etc., deeply dislike or hate Arabs, and will be doubly offended with this categorization. It’s not enough to decry calling these devolved individuals and groups “insurgents” and “militia-men.” They need to be referred to with unequivocal contempt and ridicule. Most Arabs are NOT feral, but there are feral members of any identifiable domesticated species, or political party.
History's record is grim, India's in particular, though the policy of "negationism" prevents most Indians from learning that. The cycle is underway here in the US. Do not equivicate!

Back Shooting Cutthroats...
Fascist's, Jahadi's, Islamo Lunatic's... Call em what you like... All I know is that they are all a bunch of Drygulching Bushwackers that would cut thier own mothers throat

Sloopy's comments
about a conversation with APR is hilarious (and accurate)! LOL
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