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Thursday, May 24, 2007
Hugh Hewitt :: Townhall.com Columnist
Drop Dead America
by Hugh Hewitt
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Will Congress pass Obamacare by the end of the year?

The question is: Is there anything that Brian Ross and ABC News wouldn’t run?

If ABC News and Brian Ross learned that the U.S. had a team of agents close to bin Laden and were scheduled to grab him tomorrow, would they run the information?

If ABC News and Brian Ross learned that the U.S. intended to bomb facilities in Iran dedicated to the production of nuclear weaponry on Tuesday next, would they post the story?

If ABC News and Brian Ross learned that the U.S. had been covertly conducting surveillance on a suspected international terrorist in the U.S. as he contacted his network and laid his plans, would they post the story?

Late on Tuesday, ABCNews.com and Brian Ross posted a story that began:

The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert "black" operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.

The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, say President Bush has signed a "nonlethal presidential finding" that puts into motion a CIA plan that reportedly includes a coordinated campaign of propaganda, disinformation and manipulation of Iran's currency and international financial transactions.

Either the story is a pile of garbage or it is the disclosure of a classified and highly sensitive operation, the success of which is fraught with difficulty and peril, the outcome of which could prevent a rogue regime run by religious fanatics from acquiring nukes.

Either way, ABC News and Brian Ross did damage to MSM’s already threadbare reputation. Either they joined Dan Rather and Mary Mapes in the “easily played” category or The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times in the category of self-serving, and clueless or treacherous dangers to the national interest.

We can’t know, and probably never will. But we do know that Brian Ross has become a pipeline willing to carry anything into the MSM. On May 14, The Blotter proclaimed that “[a]s many as five or six U.S. air marshals are now assigned to each U.S.-bound flight from airports in Frankfurt, London and Manchester, England, because of fears terrorists might attempt a coordinated series of mid-air explosions, law enforcement officials tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.” Now, if you were a terrorist planning to blow up a plane, do you suppose you might pick a different flight?

Again, is there anything ABC News and Brian Ross won’t run?

Yesterday Mitt Romney used the platform his presidential campaign gave him to deliver a very useful message, one which every candidate ought to deliver again and again, and not because it is good politics, but because the American media has lost its way and is actively giving aid to the countries enemies via the repeated and indiscriminate publication of national security secrets. The people making these decisions are typically life-time inhabitants of the cloisters called newsrooms. They have zero national security experience –or many experiences of any sort other than MSM culture-- and, truth be told, most of them aren’t particularly bright, and they don’t impress you close up as the sort of people on whose judgment you would rely in a crisis. They have a Pavlovian response to information of any sort, whether a killer’s videotape or the announcement of a super-secret program the disclosure of which helps terrorists elude capture.

The large majority of Americans of all ages disdain the MSMers – and many despise them for their cavalier attitudes about what to brand news and what to push into the public square. The MSM elites are not admired or respected and certainly not trusted. Once they leave their posts they are quickly forgotten and certainly not missed. The contempt in which they are held by the members of the military is almost complete, and the government elites who battle or use them also sneer at their vanity and their easily played reflexes.

They are protected by the First Amendment, and I wouldn’t have it any other way, nor would the vast majority of Americans. But as careless as they are with the safety of America, we ought to at least be clear about our opinions of them and their “craft.”

Here is the text of Romney’s statement:

"First of all, I woke up this morning, and I was shocked to see the ABC News report regarding covert action in Iran. I was not shocked because of the covert action. I was shocked because a news organization with such a renowned reputation as ABC News would deem it appropriate to publish information about a covert action existing, and publish that not only to America but to the entire world. The reporting has the potential of jeopardizing our national security. Stated quite plainly, it has the potential of affecting human life. We may never know.

"As you know, Iran is developing a nuclear bomb. Iran sponsors terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Hamas. Iran's President has denied the Holocaust. Its leadership has incited to genocide. Its leadership has suggested the use of nuclear weapons. In fact, the spread of nuclear terror – nuclear proliferation – is certainly the most threatening of all the prospects on the planet today. And Iran is the most noted perpetrator of this nuclear proliferation. And Iran is supplying weapons and expertise that kill American soldiers in Iraq.

"And with all those things in mind and despite those factors, ABC News published classified information that warns Iran and that has the potential of putting Americans at risk. Now no one wants in a country like ours any form of censorship, but the media has a responsibility to police itself. And in the last little while, we've seen two examples of a failure in this responsibility. One by The New York Times with regards to reporting on the electronic eavesdropping on potential terrorists and the other is this report by ABC News. Responsible policing I just don't think happened on their part. Responsible policy-making happened on their part.?

"And I think it's important to recognize that we have a global war on terror which continues. It's a global war against violent jihad. We've seen six years of this. It's not about to disappear anytime soon. With that in mind, I think it's time for leadership in the media to consider and adopt voluntary rules of responsible reporting with regards to matters of national security. Of course, we have a First Amendment which we cherish and value. It provides for freedom of the press but with this freedom goes the responsibility of the press. I'm not looking, as I said, for government censorship. I'm looking for corporate responsibility."

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About The Author

Hugh Hewitt is host of a nationally syndicated radio talk show. Hugh Hewitt's new book is The War On The West.

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MSM ARE TRAITORS!
Who is/was surprised by this?

This just in!
Great Britain has just broken Germany's secret code. With the ability to intercept and understand all of Nazi Germany's communications, Great Britain is armed with the knowledge of where and when the Nazi's will attack next. With this knowledge, preparations can be taken that will protect British citizens and defenses can be put in place that will inflict maximum casualties on the Nazi enemy. Hopefully, the Nazi's aren't listening to this broadcast because then they will change their code and all of Britain's advantages will be lost. For all of us at ABC, this is Brian Ross.

The MSM are idiots. Those that leaked this information are traitors. Investigations should be launched, and those reporters that do not identify sources should be imprisoned. This is not a trivial matter, this is not some "Valerie Plame" leak; this is the real deal. The leakers need to be prosecuted. I can only hope that this is intentional disinformation aimed at Iran.

"Corporate" responsibility
these days means nothing because it means EVERYTHING. Its definition hijacked daily to be whatever the demand du jour from the Left may be, from "greening" operations, to "giving back" to the "community" to "living wage" for the workers. In ABC's case, it apparently means responsibility to shareholders to gain market share by any means necessary. This would be an unthinkable concession to capitalism if it did not play into the hands of the Left very handsomely.

What we as consumers and as shareholders need to start demanding is corporate PATRIOTISM. That is, you sprang from this fertile ground here and we expect you to revise your corporate policies to a "do no harm" agenda when it comes to America. That means, we do not sell technology to foreign hostile governments. We do not trade with dictatorships who suppress their own people's freedoms. We do not provide aid of any sort, that includes INFORMATION or propaganda, which may be used to undermine American interests, via any interceptible means.

American businessmen used to get this. The Greatest Generation produced not only military heroes, but economic ones as well. But in this age of dog-eat-dog and inherited silver spoons, it appears we have a bunch of lollipop-suckers at the helms of many of our formerly great corporations, and they need a lesson.

I urge anyone with the means to do so to purchase into a company so as to achieve voting rights, gather shareholder support where possible, and demand changes.

Think for a moment.
Just think.

It's the media's job to report news as it comes to them. I'm not saying the media is fantastic, but they're doing their job by reporting news that comes to them.

The ACTUAL PROBLEM with this is the person who leaked the information to ABC News. Why are you attacking ABC; you should be going after the idiot who leaked the info to the media. THAT person is the real problem here.

If I had a secret, I most likely would NOT tell the town gossip. If I did, it would be my own fault that the secret got out: not the gossip's fault... I knew she was going to do that when I told her.

YouSoMakeMeLaugh
We speak and write English in this country. You may need to study a bit more before taking your citizenship test.

Betty Ann, Think for a moment.
Just think.

The media, by your "job" description, in an age such as ours, would be so bogged down in information as to be paralyzed. Would that that were the case. Fact is, THEY choose what "news" is "fit to print" (or broadcast, etc.), and they choose the criteria by which they choose.

Yes, their sources are a problem, and ought to be thoroughly investigated. But absolving the broadcaster of any complicity is folly. They have a choice, and they choose to publish that which harms the U.S.

No Patriotism
Despite the fact that ABC, NBC, and CBS are American based corporations, there is no loyalty "to the home team". It is a dog-eat-dog, first-to-tell competition. They don't care who gets hurt or even if the story is completely true. Also because of the content, I am sure ABC felt this news was detrimental to the Bush administration because it would show that "his administration" is meddling in the affairs of a sovereign nation. This fits their agenda.
What needs to happen is a thorough investigation to find the person who leaked it to ABC. This is about the third or fourth intelligence "secret" that has been leaked and there is still no outcry from the Democrats about finding the leaker like there was for the Valerie Plame leaker. Of course that is because these subsequent leaks are things the Democrats want to get out. The bias is so blatant that it defies believable denial.

Irresponsibility
With regard to some of the "opinions" posted on this subject, one, that of "Yousomakemelaugh" is merely the usual nasty verbal filth that he or she constantly spews. (Anyone so filled with hate must be living a miserable life) But with respect to the comments of Betty Ann, ABC has more responsibility here than the traitor who passed them the information.
There is nothing sacred about "news." There should be people in authority at all so-called "news" reporting organisations who understand that actions, such as publishing details of covert military operations to our enemies, can get our troopers killed, provides aid and comfort to our enemies, aids and abets treason committed by the leaker, and is treasonous itself.
Alas, we do not have an equivalent of the Official Secrets Act in this couintry, yet, during WW II, newspaper and radio reporters came into possession of information that, if broadcast would have jeopardised millitary operations and gotten our troops killed, and they did not disseminate that information. They did not think that they, as reporters were completely neutral, or that "news" was more important than helping us to win the war. They were patriots, and proud of it. Today's MSM crowd, almost entirely, would have to improve significantly to rise to the level of pond scum.
Yes, the leaker is a traitor, and should be dealt with accordingly, by which I mean execution. But the people who broadcast this information, knowing full well what the results of so doing could be, are also traitors, and I would have little compunction where their executions were concerned.
I am of the opinion that, were someone to have said to either of the loathsome creatures responsible for airing this information, "look here, if you make this public, it will result in a dozen of our Special Operations soldiers to be captured and killed," the response would have been, "So what? The people's right to know is more important than the lives of a small number of stupid, brutal U S Army thugs," or words to that effect. Remember, in common with the democ rat party, the MSM scum agree with the sentiments of Billary Clinton, they "loath the military."
And, tell me, Betty Ann, were one of the people included in a covert operation aimed at defeating our enemies a close relative of yours, would you still believe that it was permissible for ABC (Abysmal Broadcasting Corporation) to publicise that operation to the world?

Julz & Betty Ann, Think for a moment..
Just think. (I love that opener!)

If the town gossip yells fire in a crowded theatre, she has committed a crime (I forgot both the technical name for it and the specific critera for validating it..doesn't matter..) and should be prosecuted. The general criteria is In so doing have they endangered citizens and/or national security.

You have inspired me to investigate those criteria, precedents for validation and prosecution and defense.

I suspect the legal devices we have are obsolete.

In any case more thought is required. Then I for one will act.

No new argument here
Let's see we can start with something like the printing of the Pentagon Papers during the Nixon administration.

Like it or not, this is part of having a free society.

Unfortunately, if Mr. Hewitt had his way, much of the freedom of the press would be gone.

Didn't hear that much complaining from Mr. Hewitt when Vice-President Cheney was manipulating the press and "leaking" information that was classified so he could then comment on it on the Sunday morning talk shows.

The News Fit to Print
There are certainly Americans who feel that the type of activity described in the ABC story is vile and horrid. They are dead set against it. There are others who feel it is appropriate and a logical step in providing for our national security. The questions EVERY news organization must ask is does the "story" cause harm to the country or its citizens. This is part of the responsibility that goes along with freedom of speech (and a free press).

You can say whatever you want, but you are liable for the consequences of that speech. Be it slander, libel, sedition, etc. there are specific laws about types of speech that are illegal. Disclosure of information merely because you are in possession of that information doesn't make the disclosure appropriate.

I agree that the leaker should be pursued, identified and prosecuted. However, I also believe that ABC news has a responsibility to weigh the publics right to know against the potential damage to the US and its interests. ABC and YMML2 make it clear that the publics right to know top secret plans outweighs any potential harm that might come from its disclosure. Hey, what a novel idea. Why don't we just declassify everything and no longer have security clearances. Nothing should be secret from anyone. YMML2, would you support ABC airing nuclear launch codes if someone leaked them to the network?

Auntie
Makes the BBC look like angels doesn't it?

Free the press.
Oooh come now, Hugh... don't you know that the public's right to know always precedes any and all other considerations. And so what if a few people get hurt. After all, what could be better than being part of a truly well informed and enlightened populace. Then we could all take part the many distinguished pannels and the many outstanding symposiums that our most learned elite labor so hard and so dilligently to create for us. And then we could all join hands in singing kumbaya and watching the sun set over our most glorious world order.

Now, Hugh... don't you feel a whole lot better?
I thought so.

ctjaeger
The government and classified information.

Just as a point of reference for you.

I don't know the percentage, I'm certain no one would, but much of the classified information that is in the government are things that you can read in the newspapers every day.

While I was in the Air Force, my best friend, was an officer for intelligence at Ft. Bragg. He mentioned on numerous occasions how he would read something in Newsweek only to have it come across his desk a week later as a classified piece of information.

come on
hewitt is absolutly right.there are limitations on freedom of press,speech,and religion 4 that matter.Cant threten to kill someone.u cant print a story thats bogus,(or your not supossed to)and u cant sacrifice people as part of practicing your religion.u shouldnt write stories that could get americans killed or give the enemy an atvantage. some people got so book smart they lost their commensence.

Secret Information? Please.
Look at the information that was released.

Now raise your hands.

How many of you never realized that the CIA had an ongoing campaign to disrupt Iran, etc.?

We're sending armadas into the waters around Iran, but we're not doing things secretly there? Puleaze.

hit job
its just another hit job done on bush,the man they hate. make him look bad at every corner and the people will believe it,and it works.

abc
abc bares some responcibilty.the the person who leeked it is a piecec of u know what.he or she should pay a price. but ultimatily abc editors chose to run it.one more story that makes bush look dumb.add it to the hundreds of others they have run.in the process of making him look bad they hurt this country.

tiny egos and a loud voice

The problem is reporting stories based on information from source that can not be verified. Any wackjob can come up with a crazy story and claim it to be true. I suspect the MSM runs these stories, not to (consciencely)undermine Bush, but to elevate their own sense of self worth. Can you imagine how Dan Rather must have felt believing he was going to report a spectacular story? "I'm going to prove just how relevant I am," he would think. That's human nature and we are all guilty of it. That does not mean they are absolved of responsibility. Just that they are human.

Beating up Bush? Huh?
DevilsPaintBrush, Citizen and others.

Could you please explain to me how releasing a story on the CIA getting orders from the President to perform a mission in Iran is beating up, or bashing, the President?

I'm sorry but the logic of that argument eludes me.

Beating Up Bush
dogjudge...it's pretty simple really and requires very little logic. The release of the story jeopordizes the Commander in Chief's mission to protect this country and it's inhabitants. That is his #1 responsibility right now and such a leak makes it very difficult for him to do his job effectively.

Irrespective of the President's party affiliation I want him to help keep me and mine alive. Deliberate obstruction of this and endangering the lives of those trying to do it in the name of getting a scoop or partisan politics is utterly despicable and can only stem from some loathing of the man and not the role he is obliged to play.




Learning from History
"Everyone knows the famous line, "He who does not know history is destined to repeat it." This would seem like common sense, but it is entirely misunderstood. It is commonly trotted out in liberal arguments against Iraq, where they point at Vietnam and parrot the quote.

I wish they would actually know their history as we come up on what will likely be the Tet Summer of the Iraq War...where the insurgents and jihadists destroy themselves militarily to achieve a strategic victory in US poll numbers and Congressional votes in the fall."


"Drive By" History and the Tet Summer of Iraq
http://www.townhall.com/MyBlog/CreatePost.aspx?ContentGuid=9c75b618-41cc-48ea-80b6-535708c41b9b

Lerxst
You're kidding. Right?

I totally understand how someone might feel that this type of story might make a CIA mission harder. I disagree with that assessment, but I can understand that argument. Look at my previous posts.

It would be different had ABC talked about a specific mission. Then there might be some valid criticism here.

Did this come as a surprise to you before ABC brought it up? If so, and I am not being intentionally rude here, what world are you living on?

In your post you said NOTHING at all how this is bashing Bush.

Bashing is defined as delivering a criticism. In the context of the above posts, I would say that beating up Bush was intended to mean the same thing.

NOW.

I again ask, phrased differently, how is this article a criticism of Bush?

dogjudge, pay attention
First of all, Hugh did not say one thing that implies any support for the weakening of the first amendment. Your knee is jerking.

As for Cheney, he is in the position to determine what classified material should or should not be publicized. Hugh's talking about secret stuff that puts our armed forces and CIA (etc.) in more danger. Or anything that helps out the murderous fanatics who are so intent on slitting your throat. Your Cheney dodge is just typical "gotcha" crap that is so often a non sequitur.

Don't bother if you can't do any better than that.

drop dead America
The publication of classified data can be a very serious matter. On one hand in can lead to failure of important operations. The other problem that arises is that classification has been used to cover a lot of sins that were not related to protecting national security.

If reporters are not already doing it they should contact the goverment and give them a chance to explain why killing the story is in the best interest to national security. If it is in the best interest of national security the story should not be published. If it is someone trying to shape public opinion by witholding information then consideration should be given to publishing it.

The MSM is looking for ANY way to make
Bush look bad. The strange and twisted intellectual pygmy known as "dogjudge" will likely ask, "How does this make Bush look bad?" Because it effectively thwarts a program that MIGHT result in a success for the administration that might be important to the war on terror. The GOAL of the MSM is achieved any time Bush is deprived of a success.

MSM is no longer mainstream and no longer qualifies as "media" in the traditional sense. RUSH is right; he and Hewitt are now doing the job the MSM USED to do.

Quite sad, actually...

MikeFast
Nice try, but look again.

From Mr. Hewitt, "They are protected by the First Amendment, and I wouldn’t have it any other way, nor would the vast majority of Americans. But as careless as they are with the safety of America, we ought to at least be clear about our opinions of them and their “craft.”"

In my mind, that IS Mr. Hewitt stating that ABC should not have run the article. That IS weakening the first amendment.

Now back to the ABC item, and Mr. Hewitt's comments about careless with the safety of Americans. BS!

Are you trying to assert that until ABC ran this article, you had no idea that the CIA was doing these types of things? Are you trying to tell me that you thought the CIA had nothing going on in Iran? If you are serious about that, you are either naive, or there is nothing I can say that will enlighten you to the real world.

Cheney. First of all, you are making an assumption that he has the authority to declassify information. Please show me where you've come up with that information. The President has the authority. The Vice-President has claimed that he has that authority, but that issue has yet to be decided. You have any information to the contrary?

Hugh is stretching a point here, as is Mr. Romney.

If ABC was talking about a specific mission, specific people, etc. then there would be a valid beef.

Put another way. Do you think the CIA has ongoing covert operations right now in North Korea, or not?

If you tell me no, I want to sell you a bridge.

Chris
Please join us in the real world. We miss you.

Before you start using pejoratives to strengthen your case, you need to learn a few things.

Name calling only works to prove that you cannot defend your argument.

To say that the media bashes Bush by preventing him from succeeding is a tremendous stretch of anyone's logic.

If you truly feel that way, there's nothing to discuss.

All your proving is that your mind is totally closed to anything that disagrees with your biased view of the world.

my 2 cents
Remember that movie 'A Few Good Men' when (totally clueless but good looking with great teeth and in pursuit of the truth no matter how icky it was) Navy Lieutenant Tom Cruise was grilling Marine Colonel Jack Nicholson about the details of the death of a young Marine at Gitmo and how Colonel Jack was sort of patronizing to Lt. Tom (no matter how great his teeth were) and then Lt. Tom clinched his fist and said "I want the TRUTH" and Colonel Jack came back with "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!".

I don't really know why but that scene flashed in my head while reading this piece by Hewitt and the various "comments" about it and for all I know it could have ben an acid flashback.

Just thought I'd share that


Gotta take the dog for a swim




Whats ABC News?
Whats ABC News? Never heard of them/it.

dogjudge
I'm sorry for the use of pejorative and I'm sorry if I offended you. It's obvious that English is not your first language, so I'm going to encourage everyone to cut you a little slack.

As I've mentioned before, I'm confident there is a community college near you. They often have outstanding adult literacy programs; I encourage you to enroll... when you become an adult.

Chris
I thank you very much for your elucidating counterpoint.

You have certainly put me in my place.

I find your command of this subject, and your logic simply quite overwhelming.

Please go back to Fox and Rush to further your education.

We ourselves are also at fault
Unfortunately when it comes to the MSM we the people are very much at fault too.

If it wasn't for us and our delight in empty reporting the trailer trash like Paris Hilton, Rosie O'Donnell and Britney Spears we constantly see on the so-called 'news' wouldn't have name recognition.

See - I know their names. Why? Its nots like I'm a fan or anything. Howcome I've ever heard of these people?

dogjudge, I'll put this in terms you can
understand; I WIN! YOU LOSE! NEENER-NEENER-NEENER!

What an idiot... sad.

ex-CIA bin Laden Unit Chief .....
Michael Scheuer, ex-CIA bin Laden Unit Chief, Explains Why Insurgents Are Willing To Die Fighting Us...Maybe It's Not Our Freedom They Hate...

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/01/int05001.html


"Foreign policy is about protecting America," said author Michael Scheuer, who used to head the CIA's bin Laden unit. "Our foreign policy is doing the opposite." -- Michael Scheuer

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2434274320070524?pageNumber=1

The news is all manufactured
All "news" is vetted by editors and producers. The usual daily procedure is to get the NYTimes and simply repeat all day what it says. I'm not joking. This is partly why you get tons of "news" on Don Imus and "nappy..." but you don't hear of a teacher who sued (and won) against a Carolina sch. dis. that made her endure obsceneties and threats from black students because their behavior was "cultural" and not criminal.
It's why you hear months of stories about a gay bashing but do not hear of gays torturing a next-door teenaged boy to death.
They know the "stories." They just pub. the ones they like. Others of maybe recognized importance that they don't like either are not run or end up on the bottom of page 327.
When you consider that the lamebrained media was all upset with FOX when its staff wore little Am. flags on lapels after 911 then you know ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, most newspapers and news magazines do not care about "America," except the socialistic, pacifistic, sexually libertine, drug saturated Leftist vision the "press" shares.
The only good news, and real news it is, about lib. media is fewer and fewer people watch it and fewer and fewer people read it.

On a tear
While I'm at this site, as a journalism teacher for 13 years, I thought I'd give you some false journalistic examples:
When the Path ferries shut down in 1967, tv news people rode the last ferry (7 pm) from downtown NYC, but for some reason did not like the footage. So, at 11 that night, another "last" ferry was run again just for the "news."
In the mid-'80s, a high school's journalism classes (not mine) went into a field and burned three holes in the ground and set a small enough fire to char a little brush. The next day they photographed the "UFO sighting" and made national news. Later, they fessed up and locally the prank was exposed. It was otherwise never covered again, and prob. shows up as a "real" incident in reserch.
After the 1989 Hazelton decision by the Sup. Ct. that said school newspapers were products of a public ed and subject to school rules (horrors!!!), my staff and I were interviewed by three papers on the issue, and the possible "chilling effect," yadda. When the articles ran, all of our quotes were relatively accurate but ALL were attributed to the wrong people. I wrote a letter to one rag and sent them a tape of the interview, but the letter never was acknowledged or published.

Two companies, differing in loyalty.
One, loyal to its stockholders above all else; another with a more noble, more patriotic view.

Two companies, both in the assemble-yourself, plastic model kit-making business. [Think Revel and Testors, as randomly-selected clarifying examples.] Both companies come into possession of alleged plans, descriptions, drawings, etc of the then new and highly classified US stealth fighter now known as the Lockheed F-117 but then known under a variety of names, none of them real.

One set of plans was bogus; the other was the real thing. Each company received one set of plans in the mail, recognized what they thought they had, but only one showed true corporate responsibility and contacted a gov't organization tasked with program security and returned what they had. [Luckily for the US, they were the one's who had the real plans.]

The other company produced the fake model with great public hoopla.

I still stand in awe, ramrod straight, saluting and applauding the action of the socially responsible company. Only a few know of the financial sacrifice they made for our country's security. Thank you, sir.

True story.

Oh, the other company? Well, I imagine you know my feelings for those "Hanoi Janes and Johns". Their "model" is still a laughing stock -- and a trivia collector's goal.

Corporate responsibility is NOT dead in this country...it is just in very short supply within the MSM.

Lynne
Lynne:

The man is the former CHIEF OF THE CIA'S BIN LADIN UNIT. Quite a bit of credibility there, wouldn't you think? It also matches what is in the 9-11 Commission Report.

But, let's take a look at the links you provided, shall we?

Your first link doesn't work.

Your second, well, let's see, shall we...

"Mr. Emerson serves as the Executive Director of The Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT), an organization HE founded in 1995"

So, Mr. Emerson wrote a book, then founded his own organization. Well, isn't that just nice. LOL. Are you saying this makes him an expert??? LOL.

------------
Your third, Brigitte Gabriel, established the organization, American Congress for Truth.....

What's her background and credentials for expertise Lynne? Hmmmm????

---------------
On to Irshad Manji...

"Born in 1968, Irshad is a refugee from Idi Amin’s Uganda. In 1972, she and her family fled to Vancouver, where Irshad grew up attending public schools as well as the Islamic madressa." Besides that she is a writer and is a Senior Fellow with the European Foundation for Democracy.

And her qualifications to intelligently question our foreign policy is....????????????
--------------

And, last, but not least, your final web site.... a link to a movie and an organization, USA Wake Up.

And their credentials are...........??????????

------------

Bottom line. No one has excused what the terrorists did and no one has said that there are not terrorists existing who want to kill us. The discussion is whether our foreign policy is enhancing or detracting from our National Security.

The former Chief of the CIA, Michael Scheuer agrees with Ron Paul that our current foreign policy is creating more terrorists and is endangering our national security.




oops
"The former Chief of the CIA, Michael Scheuer"---> Should have read, The former Chief of the CIA's bin Ladin Unit, Michael Scheuer

The First Amendment
Some of you seem to have missed the point of it. It protects the people and the press from GOVERNMENT restrictions. It provides no protection from the criticism of other members of the press who object to those who traitorously publish classified information. (Did you guys see how I just exercised freedom of speech? It was great.)

Lynne
You are a loose with your facts about me as you are with most of your facts.

The "names" that I've called you. Please. Other than saying that your sources you use could also be used to assert that Martians are landing, I've treated you with utmost respect.

If you go back and look, you'll find that I try not to lower myself to name calling unless it has been used extensively against me or when someone really pushes a hot button. Sort of like when they talk about supporting the troops, but are unwilling to call this administration on the fact that the Iraqi Parliament is STILL planning on taking a two month vacation while our troops keep their country safe.

As for name calling other "conservatives" here. Balderdash.

As I've stated before, and I'll state again, you are extremely willing to question other people's patriotism and commitment to this country.

I'll ask you the same question that you've avoided before. This country has given you quite a bit. You're more than willing to take. I, as a self proclaimed centrist with liberal leanings, paid PART of my obligation back by serving in the Air Force for six years. Two inactive and four active. What have YOU given to this country? Not in the military. Just doing anything other than complaining about liberals.

Your 5:49 post about silence only proves how dangerous you, and folks who think like you, are. I didn't fight for this country so that folks like you could tell America that the best American is one who shuts their mouth and blindly follows a leader.

As I have asked all afternoon. ABC simply said that the CIA had various operations going on. They told those who were willing to listen on Wednesday that they had discussed the story with the administration, and that the administration did NOT express any objections to the story being run.

Did you ever think that MAYBE the administration wanted the story run to send a message to Iran?

Again, note their were no specifics that were given that would have endanger a mission or an individual.

To quote you, " 1) put our troops in danger, and 2) aiding and providing the enemy with military information that helped them."

As usual Lynne a lot of accusations with absolutely NO substantiation.

Fortunately, I've dealt with you long enough to know that you won't respond to the actual issues that I've raised.

Have a great evening!

Paul offers reading list to Giuliani

Do think Rudy will take Ron Paul up on his offer to educate himself on the Middle East?

MSNBC-WASHINGTON - Longshot Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, on Thursday, gave front-runner Rudy Giuliani a list of foreign-policy books to back up his contention that attacks by Islamic militants are fueled by the U.S. presence in the Middle East.

“I’m giving Mr. Giuliani a reading assignment,” the nine-term Texas congressman said as he stood behind a stack of books that included the report by the commission that examined the attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001.

Giuliani was mayor of New York when Islamic militants slammed two commercial airliners into the World Trade Center, a role that has vaulted him to the front of the Republican presidential pack despite his liberal social positions.

“I don’t think he’s qualified to be president,” Paul said of Giuliani. “If he was to read the book and report back to me and say, ‘I’ve changed my mind,’ I would reconsider.”

one book on the list was “Imperial Hubris,” whose author appeared at the press conference to offer support for Paul.

“Foreign policy is about protecting America,” said author Michael Scheuer, who used to head the CIA’s bin Laden unit. “Our foreign policy is doing the opposite.”

READ MORE

Liberty
Why are you even talking to Lynne? She would much rather take the word of the AEI and its sister thinktanks over the CIA, 9/11 Commission Hearings/Report, what Wolfowitz said before the party line changed, Bin Laden's fatwas, and every interview Bin Laden ever did with western journalists.

And on the ABC Report, look at my post above from earlier today, this is a two month old story.

John Konop
Rudy dug his own grave, he had six years to study up on the guys who attacked NYC when he was mayor, he isn't going to start reading now, just tow the party line.

My favorite revelation was last week when we found out one of his clients is the Saudi government. This is the same Rudy that gave the Saudi prince 10 million dollars for 9/11 victims back because he made a comment on foreign policy. So 10 million for 9/11 victims isn't as important as good PR, but money in his pocket is fine.

http://spinfilter.blogspot.com/2007/05/rudy-giuliani-americas-mayor-or.html

my 2 cents
Freedom of the press is a right, and it is a responsibility

Thoughts
A number of points, not in any particular order:

1. It is wrong, and against the law, to yell "fire" in a crowded theater when there is not one. It is also wrong, and maybe illegal, to yell, "There's a fire in the lobby, some guy just told me so", when they didn't. FWIW

2. In one way, anyone in the govt. or the press could "yank our chains" if they wanted to, and we would be none the wiser, and maybe they wouldn't be either. How do you know what is "information" and not "disinformation", what is nonsense, and what is deliberately "leaked", truth or fiction, for whatever purpose?

3. I would be surprised if we aren't taking some kind of action to promote freedom in Iran, that said I'm not sure I want newspaper articles about it. How could it be aimed to hurt President Bush? Easy. It feeds into the charge that "Bush is a crazy warmonger planning on getting us into a second war when he can't finish the first one, and he'll probably do it just in time to hand it over to the new Democrat president!"

4. Maybe there are 5-6 US air marshals on every inbound flight from Frankurt, London, and Manchester, ... or maybe there are 4-5 on every inbound flight from Hong Kong, Singapore, and Jakarta... I have no idea, and I bet the person behind that "leak" really doesn't know either.

5. Michael Scheuer? I find it interesting how eager people will believe someone several steps removed from power rather than the person in power, even though the person is getting money and attention for the story. Certainly people in power sometimes may not be trustworthy, but just because someone is not in power doesn't mean they are [trustworthy]. Besides, what is reported about how unwilling the CIA was to give info to the FBI about what was known about some of the eventual 9/11 hijackers, who knows who knew what between the CIA, NSA, FBI, military intelligence, CTU, Jack Bauer, Interpol, Scotland Yard, Thrush, Uncle, and Maxwell Smart.

6. 9/11 report? Much of the important stuff is ignored by the press and hence the public, and anything that needed to be classified "Top Secret" probably still is. I don't think I need to know or want to know everything the National Security Advisor knows.

7. It would be nice if "the media" looked into their wallets and purses to make sure they have their "Get out of Imprisonment Free" card issued by Bin Laden and guaranteed to be honored by all terrorists, drug smugglers, and generally not nice people. Oh, they can't find them? Well then, maybe they should remember this is not a football game where it's illegal to harm the referees.

Let's be honest
"Now, if you were a terrorist planning to blow up a plane, do you suppose you might pick a different flight?"

Isn't this a good thing? I klnow if I was on that flight and a terrorist turned around and left instead of blowing up my flight, I sure would be happy about it.

"I was shocked because a news organization with such a renowned reputation as ABC News would deem it appropriate to publish information about a covert action"

Now I get to be labeled a liberal, but aren't you placing blame everywhere but where it goes? Ummm, Last time I checked, "classified" sorta means you don't divulge that information to anyone without the proper clearance and the need to know. I really don't think ABC news has either, so I think the blame goes to whoever released the information.

but the media has a responsibility to police itself.

I'll agree with this, but they also have the responsibility to make a living. Scoops equal ratings, ratings equal money. Sad but true. Unfortunately, personal and corporate responsibility have left the building in this day and age, I don't think they'll be back anytime soon.

Our Bill of Rights
It would appear to me that regardless of our Bill of Rights, nothing therein should be regarded as absolute. Just as we do not allow someone to yell, "fire" in a crowded room when there is none, people of the press need to be stopped from divulging classified information that might jeopardize our national security.

We especially seem to provide the 1st Amendment a sanctity that it does not deserve. It was not intended to protect pornography, profanity, flag burning, blasphemous works of art or treason. It was intended to allow citizens to redress their government. It is time we realized that and placed Mr. Ross' head in the guillotine along with many others.

Does Bush care?
I doubt it.

There have been NO prosecutions of any leakers of the deluge of highly secret information to the MSM.

So, of course, the tsunami continues and the MSM publishes. After all, in their perverted logic, "America bad".

ALL
Take a moment out to see what life will be like if Hitlary and the Dhimmicrats take control. Measure G just passed in The People's Republik of Bezerkley. And the old saying is: "As goes Kalifornia, so goes the rest of the country."

Click on my handle to read the #1 blog on TH, H*LL, probably in the entire nation! HAHA! Man Brian, you taught me well.


It appears that
Dogjudge is like a lot of the other "useful idiots" who believe that the rulng in the Pentagon Papers Case gave Newspapers the "right" to do anything they wish. It did not. It prevented the government from "prior censorship" and it specifically stated that the Newspaper could be held accountable if the government could show that the country was harmed by what the Newspaper had released.

Even with that I disagree with the ruling and would like to see it revisited now that we have a slightly better court than we had then.

Mr. Hewitt
Dear Mr. Hewitt,your application for the job of "CIA" policy maker and analyst,has been "REJECTED".The ABC coverage does no harm,because no one with half a brain,thinks that destabilizing Iran will change our world circumstance!Iran is like the rock throwers, in a nuclear war.Americans think of war in terms of weaponry,this is not the future of war.Our greatest threat is ECONOMIC WARFARE!We cannot be destroyed from outside,but we can be destroyed from within.Mr. Hewitt,your readers can't be as "STUPID",as you obviously "THINK"!ARE THEY???

Vic
Please do not put words in my mouth, ie. your comments about the Pentagon Papers and MY views. You happen to be wrong.

I have to compliment you, normally you are one of the voices of reason here.

As I posted earlier, I happened to catch part of ABC's news on Wednesday night when they mentioned this entire issue. They said that they had presented the entire story to the administration prior to them broadcasting it. I'm not 100 percent, but I think they said that they had asked the administration TWICE. If I'm wrong, once certainly qualifies as an acceptance.

That being said, what is the issue?

Again, as I posted before. PERHAPS the administration WANTED this information released as a tactic against Iran.

To dogjudge
You said: "Let's see we can start with something like the printing of the Pentagon Papers during the Nixon administration."

To me this looks like you meant to support the ruling in the Pentagon Papers and that this episode of ABC publishing clasified information was the same thing and that it was OK for papers and news to publish this type of material.

If this was not your intent, then I apologize.

Vic
Thanks for the note.

I accept.

My intention regarding the Pentagon Papers was to cite something that was much more egregious, as it related to the Freedom of the Press issue as a precedent for this issue. It was something that I hoped most people would know about.

You mention that you would like to see the courts revisit the issue.

Was that directed toward the Pentagon Papers specifically, or toward the larger issue of freedom of the press?

Beyond putting fighting forces in danger, etc. what types of issues do you feel would be sufficient to trump the concept of freedom of the press?

For me putting troops in danger could probably be circumvented in such a way that you could still write an article, but leave enough information out that it wouldn't be an issue.


To dogjudge
I do believe in freedom of the press, but with that freedom comes responsibility. The press should not be allowed to publish classified information and then be held accountable after the fact, as was ruled by the PP case. The government is caught in a double bind for that. If they prosecute, as the SC ruled, they confirm the story and do further harm to national security.

I do not believe the press has the freedom to harm national security for their own purposes. Just as an individual can not yell fire in a crowded theater and cause harm to people, the press should no publish classified information and harm people. And BTW, publishing the PPs did in fact cause harm to the national security because it revealed agents, sources, and methods. The case was improperly decided by a left wing political court and it should be revisited.

The thing that the liberals yelled about was improperly classified stuff. They maintained that it was classified soley for the purpose of preventing embarrassment to the administration. I don't believe that the press is the one who should make that decision. In any event, the PPs did not cause embarrassment to the Nixon admin. If anything, the embarrassment was for the Democrats in the Johnson Admin.

dogjudge
Let me cite a more pertinent case regarding freedom of the Press.

Ever heard of Congressman Andrew May (D-PA)?

He attended a classified brief, at a TS level, in Pearl Harbor in 1943. Here are the results of the Freedom of the Press.

Citations:
1. "Senseless Secrets" - LtCol (ret) Michael Lee Lanning. Pg 82 "That intelligence failure involved U.S. Congressman Andrew May, who as a member of the House Military Affairs Committee visited the Pacific theater, where he received many intelligence and operational briefings. On his return, May held a press conference and stated that American submarines had a high survivability because Japanese depth charges were fused to explode at too shallow a depth. Soon enemy depth charges were rearmed to explode at a more effective depth of 250 feet. Vice Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, commander of the U.S. submarine fleet in the Pacific, later estimated that May's revelation cost the navy as many as ten submarines and 800 crewmen."

2. "Silent Victory" - Clay Blair. Vol.1 pg 397

"A serious breach of security may have helped the Japanese anti-submarine forces. In June 1943, Congressman Andrew May, a sixty-eight-year-old member of the House Military Affairs Committee returning from a war zone junket, gave a press interview during which he said, in effect, Don't worry about our submariners; the Japanese are setting their depth charges too shallow. Incredibly, the press associations sent this story over their wires, and many newspapers, including one in Honolulu, thoughtlessly published it.

"Lockwood and his staff were appalled--and furious--at this stupid revelation. Lockwood wrote Admiral Edwards in acid words, "I hear ... Congressman May ... said the Jap depth charges ... are not set deep enough. ... He would be pleased to know the Japs set'em deeper now." And after the war, Lockwood wrote, 'I consider that indiscretion cost us ten submarines and 800 officers and men.'"

Freedom of the Press nearly killed my father since HE was out there making war patrols at the time.

BTW, Congcritter may was tried, convicted, and imprisoned for fraud and war profiteering, and Truman pardoned him seven months later. It's cool though, I visited May's grave a few years back and watered the grass thereon.

Vic
My friend, you have Vietnam ALL WRONG! Everyone knows that it's ALL Nixon's fault despite the fact that JFK sent 15,000 troops to SVN in Oct 1963 and LBJ, like a kid playing with a new toy, sent millions! And who can forget the stunning failures of Nixon, Operation Linebacker I and II, that nearly snatched victory from the jaws of defeat before the liberal congress was able to cut off funding...

GunnyG
Yeah, it was all Nixon's fault. I can't understand why the liberals hated Nixon so much. He was one of theirs.

Vic
Thanks for the clarification.

I think we're in total agreement about the issue of releasing information that could be harmful to the country or its people.

I think the issue of material being classified to avoid embarrassment to a political group is a very big issue. Not only for its initial classification, but even after the political group has left office.

The courts don't always side for freedom of the press and other issues along this way.

For me a HUGE issue is the issue of torture. There have already been cases that have reached the courts where torture has been an issue that has to be resolved. So far the administration has successfully argued that the cases cannot come before the courts because of national security. Ah, but I digress.

Gulf of Tonkin is something that should have been brought to the public's attention. The wiretapping issue is something that should be brought to the public's attention. Although some would argue about the security of the US, we're talking about an issue that potentially violates the Constitution. How do you resolve Constitutional issues such as this, if the acts cannot be brought into the open?

GunnyG
I had no idea who May was. Thanks for the information.

If you'll look, I have stated that I have no problem withholding information that would put the troops in danger, or jeopardize a mission, etc.

If the information you have given is correct, both May should have been prosecuted and any news organization that printed the information.

Now, what about this scenario?

This is something that is extremely sensitive to H.W. Bush.

What about someone who would release the specific name of secret agents? Even a couple of years after they are no longer part of the government.

To dogjudge
ALL of the things you are talking about have come before the courts. In fact, the so-called wire tapping is done under court supervision. All of these issues aqre red hearings. The US does not torture. Water-boarding is not torture. Our biggest "torture" at Gitmo is overfeeding the captives so that they are getting fat. They are also probably getting a lot of cholesterol so that when they have a heart attack they would wish to sue us for overfeeding them.

The Gulf of Tonkin info could have been released without releasing the entire report.

Vic
You raise a variety of specific issues that you have feelings about. Like abortion, torture is one of those issues that I feel it is not an issue that you can sway people's opinion. You absolutely have the right to feel the way you do, and I have the right to feel the way that I do. We disagree.

As I said early on, I respect you for being reasonable.

I would disagree a bit on the various issues have been resolved.

As far as I know, the entire issue has never reached the Supreme Court, or been ruled on. Do you know anything different.

Similarly, the issue of torture has not been resolved. Do you know anything different? I know of a couple of cases where the issue was brought up, but the administration got the cases thrown out because of national security claims. The issues were never decided.

The real story behind the "leak" to ABC
So Bush is in trouble with the "base" for Condi's overtures to Iran and Syria. Some on the right are taking his hide off for showing "weakness" by actually resorting to diplomacy. At the same time, he's trying to persuade recalcitrant Democrats to vote for the war funding bill. His problem is how to placate the right while herding enough Democratic stray cats into voting for the appropriations bill without withdrawal timetables.

Suddenly a story appears about covert destabilization operations against Iran. Disinformation and propaganda. Currency manipulations and playing with international financial transactions. You think this is a secret from Iran? Comes as a shock to them? Give me a break.

And both the CIA and White House, as reported by ABC, know this story is coming for six days before it's aired and say nothing. Not a peep about it being damaging to U.S. interests, endangering operations or lives.

I cannot believe Hugh Hewitt is actually this naive. I would say with about 95% certainty that this is an "authorized" leak. It helps Bush cover his tail on the right while telling the Iranians nothing they don't already know. And it precisely fits the pattern of a White House that has been more aggressive than most about selectively declassifying intelligence to fit its political purposes. They have all done it, but this one has elevated the tactic to an art form.

If you want to see a good example, check back to Bush's speech earlier this week using newly declassified intel about Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. OK, it was two years old but there was a big vote coming up in Congress and Bush wanted the focus on al Qaeda, not the sectarian civil war. The run-up to the Iraq invasion also used a little bit of this selectively declassified intelligence, if I remember correctly.

The only thing that surprises me more about this naivete by Hewitt, who is usually more analytical, is that Romney is equally naive. At least Hugh Hewitt isn't running for president.

To dogjudge
Just because a case does not make it to the SC does not mean that it hasn't been adjudicated. The SC does not take a case unless they wish to make a statement or reverse a previous finding. And for the admin to get a case thrown out of court they have to produce EVIDENCE for the judge to consider.

As far as I am conderned there is no evidence that we use torture. As I said before, water-boarding is not torture. If a Dem was in office right now it would not be considered torture either. All of the cr*p we have been hearing from the left has been almost totaly BDS. Where were all of the disclosures of confidential info when Klinton was president? How about a release of the notes from the meeting where Klinton decided to cut and run from Somalia? How about confidential reports from the Generals who were opposed to the increase in the mission parameters without an increase in troop strength? Where were you then?

Vic
Where was I with Clinton, not that it makes any difference to what we are discussing, but I was right here.

I think that you're missing the point about the cases being thrown out of court. I thought that I had explained the issue fairly well. Apparently not.

Waterboarding. You keep stating emphatically that this isn't torture. Would you mind telling me how you've come to that conclusion? Have you experienced it? Someone you know who has experienced it? I would assume that you're basing your decision on some authority. Would you mind telling me who that authority, or professional is?

Waterboarding
Although it certainly cuts against my grain, I'm beginning to hope that Vic is right about waterboarding not being torture. It's beginning to look like its the only way Congress stands a chance to get the truth out of Alberto Gonzales about the U.S. Attorneys.

Wouldn't that be a delicious irony? And Congress could produce Gonzales' own memo saying that it was OK.

To dogjudge
I am basing that on published accounts of what it is and the fact that we do it to our own troops as part of training. I am basing it on COMMON SENSE. I am basing it on bipartison investigations of interorgations at Gitmo that said we did not torture.

And no I am not missing the point, your point is WRONG. Things are just "thrown out of court" on a whim. There has to be actual GROUNDS for that action.

Vic
Apparently I've hit a hot button.

That happens.

As for the rest of your post, and your comments about torture. I disagree.

Oh well we'll talk about other things in the future.

Waterboarding
Vic,

You mention that we do it to our troops as part of their training. I can't seem to find anything supporting that statement. Do you have anything.

I've found some things about the CIA trying it on their own personnel, but again nothing that it is a normal training technique.

COMMON SENSE? You mind telling me how common sense says that torturing people is acceptable. And please don't give me the ticking bomb scenario.

Torture under ANY circumstances is unacceptable.

It is one of the PRIME reasons that I wouldn't vote for ANY of the current crop of GOP presidential candidates, with the exception of John McCain. They would say ANYTHING if they thought it would get them elected.

Please tell me that you've discussed the matter with your preacher/pastor, whatever, and he has told you how Jesus feels that torture is acceptable. Oh, he didn't? What a surprise there.

To dogjudge
I thought that you had decided this arguement was useless. You are talking in circles and saying the same thing over and over. No I do not support torture. I do support water boarding of high value terrorists. I do not consider water boarding torture. And if you haven't found what I was talking about, you haven't looked because it has been widely reported.

I don't see any need to continue this. All you have is the Democrap talking points, and you never did answer my question about Klinton.

The question is: Is there anything...
...Brian Ross and ABC News wouldn’t run?

Answer: NO, not if it will hurt our country.

Call the plumbers
This is so transparently an administration leak that even Ray Charles can see it, and he's been dead a long time now. So is Bush hurting our country for leaking this for political purposes?

Disinformation
I think the movie is called "The Good Shepherd" where disinformation plays the key protagonist role.

Anyone who knows a wit about intelligence knows that disinformation is just as important as intelligence.

Given the fact that Bush has been silent on this issue one could reasonably assume that we are looking at something like that.

It is an accepted part of War to lie to the media and dupe them with disinformation to throw off your enemy.

I do not know if there are shenanigans at work here or not. I do know that the press plays an important role in spreading disinformation in a time of war.

So, Hugh, consider your words in the context of the necessity for disinformation. If Bush came to you with a piece of false information to help with the war, would you publish it? Knowingly?

I also think there is more than a little hypocrisy here.

Bob Novak spilled the beans on Valerie Plame. I didn't see anybody on the right calling for his prosecution.

In fact, Novak is a perfect example of how this government plays the media. The Bush administration has also paid journalists for pieces that were reported on as news.

Seems you all want your cake and it too. You want to be able to abuse the press at your leisure but on the other hand do not want to take any of the abuse.

Were I come from that's being called "hypocritical".

Lerxt
"it's pretty simple really and requires very little logic. The release of the story jeopordizes the Commander in Chief's mission to protect this country and it's inhabitants. That is his #1 responsibility right now and such a leak makes it very difficult for him to do his job effectively.

Irrespective of the President's party affiliation I want him to help keep me and mine alive. Deliberate obstruction of this and endangering the lives of those trying to do it in the name of getting a scoop or partisan politics is utterly despicable and can only stem from some loathing of the man and not the role he is obliged to play."
----------------

He's not protecting our country. If we wanted to protect our country, he would have protected our ports and borders over 5 1/2 years ago. Yet, they still remain open. If he wanted to protect us, he would have continued to go after bin Laden and Al Qaeda, instead of letting them escape to Pakistan, while he diverted our effort to Iraq.

Meanwhile, in our OWN country, our ports and borders remain wide open. Illegal aliens are allowed to flood our country and drain our treasury by giving them free healthcare, free education and now, social security. We're not interested in securing the borders, yet, we are told it is necessary for us to have national id cards, complete with biometrics and a centralized database; it is necessary to strip habeas corpus from Americans; it is necessary to install Homeland Security cameras on every corner and even in forests to track litterers (yeah, right). Sneak and peak, illegal searches and seizures, warrantless wiretaps.... the list goes on and on. All in the name of "keeping us safe".

Do you not see what is going on? We are losing this country and it is happening right in front of our faces!

We are losing our liberty... WARNING
The following are excerpts from Congressman Paul's latest speech before Congress.

"The erosion of our personal liberties started long before 9/11, but 9/11 accelerated the process. There are many things that motivate those who pursue this course—both well-intentioned and malevolent. But it would not happen if the people remained vigilant, understood the importance of individual rights, and were unpersuaded that a need for security justifies the sacrifice of liberty—even if it’s just now and then.

The true patriot challenges the state when the state embarks on enhancing its power at the expense of the individual. Without a better understanding and a greater determination to reign in the state, the rights of Americans that resulted from the revolutionary break from the British and the writing of the Constitution, will disappear.

The record since September 11, 2001, is dismal. Respect for liberty has rapidly deteriorated.

Many of the new laws passed after 9/11 had in fact been proposed long before that attack. The political atmosphere after that attack simply made it more possible to pass such legislation. The fear generated by 9/11 became an opportunity for those seeking to promote the power of the state domestically, just as it served to falsely justify the long planned-for invasion of Iraq .

The war mentality was generated by the Iraq war in combination with the constant drum beat of fear at home. Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, who is now likely residing in Pakistan , our supposed ally, are ignored, as our troops fight and die in Iraq and are made easier targets for the terrorists in their backyard. While our leaders constantly use the mess we created to further justify the erosion of our constitutional rights here at home, we forget about our own borders and support the inexorable move toward global government—hardly a good plan for America.

The accelerated attacks on liberty started quickly after 9/11. Within weeks the Patriot Act was overwhelmingly passed by Congress. Though the final version was unavailable up to a few hours before the vote—no Member had sufficient time to read or understand it—political fear of “not doing something,” even something harmful, drove Members of Congress to not question the contents and just vote for it. A little less freedom for a little more perceived safety was considered a fair tradeoff—and the majority of Americans applauded.

The Patriot Act, though, severely eroded the system of checks and balances by giving the government the power to spy on law abiding citizens without judicial supervision. The several provisions that undermine the liberties of all Americans include: sneak and peak searches; a broadened and more vague definition of domestic terrorism; allowing the FBI access to libraries and bookstore records without search warrants or probable cause; easier FBI initiation of wiretaps and searches, as well as roving wiretaps; easier access to information on American citizens’ use of the internet; and easier access to e-mail and financial records of all American citizens.

The attack on privacy has not relented over the past six years. The Military Commissions Act is a particularly egregious piece of legislation and, if not repealed, will change America for the worse as the powers unconstitutionally granted to the Executive Branch are used and abused.

This act grants excessive authority to use secretive military commissions outside of places where active hostilities are going on. The Military Commissions Act permits torture, arbitrary detention of American citizens as unlawful enemy combatants at the full discretion of the president and without the right of Habeas Corpus, and warrantless searches by the NSA (National Security Agency). It also gives to the president the power to imprison individuals based on secret testimony.

Since 9/11, Presidential signing statements designating portions of legislation that the President does not intend to follow, though not legal under the Constitution, have enormously multiplied. Unconstitutional Executive Orders are numerous and mischievous and need to be curtailed.

Extraordinary rendition to secret prisons around the world has been widely engaged in, though obviously extra-legal.

A growing concern in the post 9/11 environment is the federal government’s lists of potential terrorists based on secret evidence. Mistakes are made and sometimes it is virtually impossible to get one’s name removed, even though the accused is totally innocent of any wrongdoing.

A national ID card is now in the process of being implemented. It’s called the Real ID card and it’s tied to our Social Security numbers and our state driver’s license. If Real ID is not stopped it will become a national driver’s license/ID for all America .

Some of the least noticed and least discussed changes in the law were the changes made to the Insurrection Act of 1807 and to Posse Comitatus by the Defense Authorization Act of 2007.

These changes pose a threat to the survival of our republic by giving the president the power to declare martial law for as little reason as to restore “public order.” The 1807 Act severely restricted the president in his use of the military within the United States borders, and the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 strengthened these restrictions with strict oversight by Congress. The new law allows the president to circumvent the restrictions of both laws. The Insurrection Act has now become the “Enforcement of the Laws to Restore Public Order Act”. This is hardly a title that suggests that the authors cared about or understood the nature of a constitutional republic.

Now, martial law can be declared not just for “insurrection” but also for “natural disasters, public health reasons, terrorist attacks or incidents” or for the vague reason called “other conditions.” The President can call up the National Guard without Congressional approval or the governors’ approval and even send these state guard troops into other states. The American republic is in remnant status. The stage is set for our country eventually devolving into a military dictatorship and few seem to care.

These precedent setting changes in the law are extremely dangerous and will change American jurisprudence forever if not reversed. The beneficial results of our revolt against the king’s abuses are about to be eliminated and few Members of Congress and few Americans are aware of the seriousness of the situation. Complacency and fear drive our legislation without any serious objection by our elected leaders.

Sadly, those few who do object to this self evident trend away from personal liberty and empire building overseas are portrayed as unpatriotic and uncaring.

Though welfare and socialism always fails, opponents of them are said to lack compassion. Though opposition to totally unnecessary war should be the only moral position, the rhetoric is twisted to claim that patriots who oppose the war are not “supporting the troops”. The cliché “support the troops” is incessantly used as a substitute for the unacceptable notion of “supporting the policy” no matter how flawed it may be. Unsound policy can never help the troops. Keeping the troops out of harm’s way and out of wars unrelated to our national security is the only real way of protecting the troops. With this understanding, just who can claim the title of “patriot”?

Before the war in the Middle East spreads and becomes a world conflict, for which we’ll be held responsible, or the liberties of all Americans become so suppressed we can no longer resist, much has to be done. Time is short but our course of action should be clear. Resistance to illegal and unconstitutional usurpation of our rights is required. Each of us must choose which course of action we should take—education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience, to bring about the necessary changes.

But let it not be said that we did nothing.

Let not those who love the power of the welfare/warfare state label the dissenters of authoritarianism as unpatriotic or uncaring. Patriotism is more closely linked to dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security. Understanding the magnificent rewards of a free society makes us unbashful in its promotion, fully realizing that maximum wealth is created and the greatest chance for peace comes from a society respectful of individual liberty." -- Congressman Ron Paul, May 22, 2007

Watch the entire speech here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLn0tMdXd_Q

or read it here:
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2007/cr0522107.htm


Ummmm....
I would think that just because someone with a classified clearance divulges classified info to someone else without a classified clearance (the media?) doesn't necessarily "unclassify" the info, does it? I'm sure there is a penalty for divulging classified info and the leaker should suffer - ergo ABC/Brian Ross should suffer the same consequences whatever they may be (formal execution after trial and conviction by jury perhaps?)

Liberty, God love you... I really don't know why but you are truly a staunch supporter of Dr. Paul but you've got to give it a rest. A 2 foot diatribe and follow-on posts with links to more info is a bit much. First, he doesn't stand a snowballs chance in heII in getting the nomination - maybe (and that's a real big maybe) he can move the dialogue a bit but me thinks he has really gone off the reservation and now nobody (of substance) is paying any attention to him. He's marginalized himself and is viewed as nothing more than a nuisance.

Dogjudge and Vic, unfortunately, torture is a necessary evil to evoke information. I believe if it will save American lives, do whatever is necessary. And by the way, Navy SEALS SERE training is every bit about torture - it preps our guys for the worst that they could face this side of death (which, by the way, would probably be preferred over what the terrorists do to our guys if they are captured - apparently one was found floating in the river with a few bullet holes in his head - God rest his soul).

Disinformation is just another way in which governments covertly "negotiate" with other governments. Could this story be disinformation? Of course. Would you have to live under a rock to think that we're NOT covertly trying to subvert the government of Iran? You betcha - a really BIG rock. Imagine Amajinidad (sp?) looking over his shoulder all the time; not trusting his closest advisers perchance they are a US spy; wondering what is true and what is false about what he sees and hears on US media. THAT's the usefulness of disinformation.

Stix
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