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Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Democrats: Pandering to Perverts 101
by Kevin McCullough
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John Edwards, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton said they stood on journalistic principle when they months ago refused to accept the invitation of Brit Hume (America's most credible anchorman) and Fox News Channel (America's most watched news network) when FNC extended an invitation to host what would easily the most watched Democratic Presidential candidate debate to date. Attempting to smear Fox News as a less than credible broker of fair and balanced news coverage Edwards, then Obama, and finally Clinton waived at the invite.

So what kind of journalists do they have at LOGO-TV?

One of the lowest rated cable outlets in existence LOGO serves exclusively the communities of people who identify themselves by the type of perverse sexual activity they engage in. "Man/boy lovers", "butch/girly girl amores", "I like to go both ways," and the "I look like a girl but am I" crowds all make their way to LOGO-TV for some daily affirmations where they are told repeatedly, "do whatever you can imagine, and ignore the prudes who say otherwise."

Sure it doesn't sound on first blush (does anyone actually blush anymore) like it would be the kind of reputable "journalistically credible" type of media outlet that would attract serious presidential candidates. But then again that is oh so very year 2000 of me.

And sure... I'm completely convinced that the head of the Human Rights Campaign and very important cultural icons like Melissa Etheridge can carve up as equally challenging questions as could Brit Hume, Chris Wallace, and Wendell Goler…right.

But the world will never know... but not because Fox didn't try.

We will never be able to compare in the same campaign cycle the journalistic prowess of the type of lightweight questions Democratic candidates will face from the shoddy crew at Fox News Channel. After all who could argue with the intellectual, philosophical, economic, national security, and social conscience expertise of a network that prides itself on the number of different ways a human being can have engage in sexual behavior while at the same time avoiding good old fashioned marital sexual intercourse?

The truth is the HillaryEdwardsObama08 crew was scratching each others eyeballs out trying to be the first candidate to confirm that they would be participating in the August event.

"In the 2008 presidential election, issues of concern to the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender) community have already been at the forefront of the national conversation,” said Joe Solmonese head of the Human Rights Campaign. "From the repeal of “Don’t ask, Don’t Tell” to the recent signing of a civil unions bill in New Hampshire, there is no doubt that voters will demand answers to important questions affecting our community."

Yes, I'm sure voters will. Perhaps not quite as you'd imagine though Mr. Solomonese.

In the attempt by the three leading contenders for the Democratic nomination America will see for the first time (or at least the ten viewers who get LOGO as part of their cable package) how far Democratic candidates are willing to pander to get a vote.

Does it take an entire broadcast hour for each of them to "out gay" the other one? Will Obama and/or Edwards show up in Chiffon? Will Hillary pass love notes to Etheridge?

What will happen is that each of these candidates will have to also later face the same "faith-based" audiences that they have been attempting to woo in recent weeks. Heaven forbid, but Obama might even have to make a follow up appearance in Rick Warren's pulpit to announce the results of his most recent AIDS test. And what will they have to say then?

See here is the unrelenting truth, put as plainly as humanly possible:

Homosexual behavior and Christianity do not mix. From the standpoint of theory, theology, doctrine, and practice the two are totally and completely incompatible; as are adultery, pornography, bestiality, pedophilia, pre-marital sex, incest, cross dressing, multiple partner orgies and the list goes on. So the candidates can not have it both ways.

The truth is Democrats are not now nor have they ever been interested in seriously committed faith based voters. They have no use for true believers be they Jewish, Catholic, or Evangelical.

But they have an insatiable lust for the sexually depraved among us. Former President Clinton's Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders even gave her name and endorsement to a book that actually advocated pedophilia.

The willingness of the leading candidates of the Democratic Party to even acknowledge the invite of the LOGO network is embarrassing enough. To go so far as to give their consent to be queried over the softball questions that they will be thrown is a travesty to the American political process.

This move will ultimately come back to hurt them bad.

I personally will see to it that all 8000 churches in New York City are aware of their willingness to pander to perverts. And mark my words, large numbers of previously assumed "safe" African American votes will be looking for a candidate other than these when push comes to shove.

That's not a threat.

It's a promise!

Dumb moves begat stupid results. Turning down Brit Hume in the election cycle is dumb on steroids. Turning down Brit Hume and saying yes to the rabid homosexual activists in America is closing in on the point of no return.

But what do I know? I watch Fox News Channel

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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To MrsV (more)
To add on to what is above, basically,it doesnt make sense to say that god hates homosexuals, seeing as he created them, and being all knowing, he would know already the turn-out of their lives. To say that he doesn't know because of free will contradicts his "all knowingness", and makes him a hypocrit. Thus the reasons you are complaining about homosexuals are invalid, and makes your god a mean deity, and a hypocrit.



These are reasons i don't understand and left the christian faith.

(continued MrsV)
It's rude to talk about religion in public. Because as i said not everyone believes in the same things. Maybe you should take that into consideration before trying to shove your beliefs down someone else's throat, that is if you and your other fellow brothers and sisters don't want homosexuals shoving their beliefs down others throats, including and not limited to the children.

*SIDE NOTES*

You stated: "-so they can continue their pagan work
of seeking to shut Christians and the Word of God up."

What's wrong with pagans and worshipping mother nature? P.S.-Paganism was around LONG LONG LONNNGGG before christianity came along.



You stated: "To urge us to shut up AND not judge your wrong way of being, living and lifting up evils, like a homosexual's way, is the height of hypocrisy, and the most sincere expression of a soul needing profound relief."

Personally, i consider evil to fall somewhere along the lines of....brain washing millions of people or even just a few to hurt a certain people because it is not what you agree with (Like hitler), murder, rape, incest, pedophelia, animal abuse, violence towards an innocent living being, blowing up buildings and killing hundreds sometimes thousands of innocent people because you're pissed off (OK city bombing, 9/11, etc.) and so on and so on.


I think most people would agree those are pretty EVIL things. SO where the hell does being a homosexual fit into there?

(continued MrsV)
I think some people get so mixed up in their faith and beliefs they forget how to act like civilized people. Etiquette in my eyes is highly important in coming off as a decent person in life, and let's not forget that we are living, we are humans, and there is no reason for anyone to spout off about how this persons going to heaven and this one's going to hell unless you're in church.

And of COURSE we have this statement, in leading to my conclusion:

RxLady writes: Wednesday, July, 11, 2007 9:11 AM
Dear Tacitus...
You have the God-given right to freedom to make your own decisions in life.

Just don't force the rest of us to affirm and accept your lifestyle.

And, DO NOT force it upon our children.

We would appreciate your consideration in this matter.

Thank you.
None of my homosexual friends or relatives or mere acquaintances force their natural preferences upon any children that i know of. I do however see a lot of people of certain religions (which will go unnamed) try their best to force their lifestyles onto children. I'm sure if you have children they go to church. I'm sure you didn't give them a choice to figure out what they actually believe in. You could pose the argument that they are your children and you can do what you want when teaching them, but don't forget that "god-given gift" of free will. (But they're still minors, legally, earth bound, they have no free will.) Are you seeing my point? I'm not accusing you of acting in this way, (but it is possible)but there are parents that do act this way. If so by chance you do have children and you never gave them a choice on what religion they want to follow and forced them to go to church and did not honor your gods own personal rule of free will and then state that they are minors and legally they have to listen to you, that means you are thinking in an earth bound sense as well as a spiritual sense. And here on Earth, there are rules of conduct and etiquette.

(continued MrsV)
So therein lies my question: Why does god create these individuals only to know they are going to fail to obey him? I'm sure you have something to strike back with within all your knowledge of your faith, because let's face it, you've had questions like this asked of you before and I’m SURE you've been vigorously taught on how to strike back at these questions.

And another point: It's great that you have your religion, and you have faith in something. I think everyone needs something to believe in for comfort...let's face it, what are the two inevitable things in life? Birth and death. Birth is easy, death, simply isn't. Believing in something higher gives people strength to deal with death much more easily. But i must remind you, it is your choice to believe in what you do. Not everyone in your town, state, this country or this world believes in the same things you do. Just because YOUR religion teaches you homosexuals are going to burn in hell, as well as murderers, adultery committers, thieves, divorcees, and all the others, does not mean that you telling a person of one of these natures is going to give a rip about what you say to them. They may have a completely different belief system. You fear being condemned to hell for eternity...some people just don't believe in that crap. Just because it's what you believe does not give you the right to tell ANYONE what their eternity is going to consist of. YOU are not god, and god did not speak to you HIMSELF and tell you to tell homosexuals they will burn in hell because it is not the way the bible says is correct. I can guarantee anyone on earth that god didn't tell you that. If you so feel the need to enlighten homosexuals on their eternity, then you really should express that that is your opinion and your opinion only. In this day in age, especially our country America, there is so much diversity it's almost impossible not to offend someone. Have I offended you at all?

(continued MrsV)
I'm sorry I’m rambling. My question to you, and i think it's something that is often asked, but never answered satisfactorily for the non-believer, is if god is all knowing, and all mighty, and everything HE supposedly is, and he created every one of us, then why in hell did he create homosexuals and free will? If he's all knowing he knows these people are going to live their lives as homosexuals. Why did he create them? He should know in the very beginning if someone is going to decide to rebel against them throughout their lives as well stating free will, since he is "all knowing". What would be the point in creating such individuals when he would know the outcomes? Ok, you can state he's testing them, with their free will to see who is going to be led back into the light and back into his arms in the very end when everything is said and done. BUT...he's...."ALL KNOWING". He should already know who's going to do what!

So what, is it some sick little game? Where he allows souls to be created into humans to live their lives by free will when seeing as he is all knowing he already knows what they're going to do just to see them burn in hell at the very end? I'm sure you won't think so, but that seems pretty twisted to me, and really...doesn't make much sense, especially if god is loving. When i DID believe in Christianity, i didn't fear god. I felt i was loved by him. In my eyes if god did exist he isn't some spiteful scary man with a long white beard...if he told his son to teach love, then how could god not be loving? If he should know the outcome of everything, how could he let souls be born into lives of crime and hatred and rebelling against him, only to watch them suffer when he knew they weren't going to choose the path he intended. I think these are a lot of questions that people often ask of the Christian religion, hence the reasoning most "brain washing proof" people step away from that path in life.

A question for MrsV
It's obvious you're a Christian woman. I however, am not of the Christian faith, do not believe in heaven, and definitely do NOT believe in hell. Personally i would rather think something more positive about the after life rather than thinking that our spirits have to suffer for something our human bodies had to learn throughout the process of life. You don't agree with homosexuality, which many Christians don't. I don't agree with many Christians and their life styles, like for instance going to church a few times a week and listening to someone tell me what i NEED to believe in order not to suffer for all eternity. Same thing goes for the bible. I'd rather know i base my beliefs on my own ideas, on my own terms. But that's me!

With everything the Christian faith offers, who that is willing to listen to everything the bible has to say isn't going to stop and think...DAMN i don't want to burn for all eternity! So i can understand you're heavy belief in the Christian religion...personally i think most religions have their ways of brain washing individuals, but perhaps it is a good thing people get brain washed by all of this. There are millions of people that can't think for themselves on a lot of levels, and if it were left up to them to think for themselves maybe we'd all be doomed by now!

Gay suicide
Is there any wonder why gay suicide rates especially among gay teens is so high. Just read Mr. McCullough's rant. The fact is that we will never know the true rate. Far too many teens who commit suicide, according to a psychiatrist friend, don't leave notes.

Homophobia At Its Worse
So sad to see the ranting of so many, and without the decorum that Townhall is usually the standard for. Mr. McCullough comments are said with such anger and nastiness, it is Jerry Farwell at his worst. Having many gay friends, with columns like those being used by Mr. McCullough, with a word like pervert and linking homosexuality to pedophilia makes me sick to my stomach. Shame on you.

just fixed typos, here
It's late. I fixed a few typos, best I could. I'd like to be understood. I posted it below, again.

"Sorry, don't try to pin your rants on us...you did that all on your own. You tarnished your (good?) name all by yourself...Yet you do the same thing to gay people. Our intentions and motives are always bad, wicked, and untrue according to you. I thought you and I actually had some sort of civil discussion (before your somewhat stalkerish rant against the author, of course) but I suppose in your mind it was all a waste of time since you were unable to "save" me. oh well."

I never tried to 'pin' anything on anyone, except to the few who had not owned up to it, ca. You are free to question good of me. And I contend that that is a measure used by morally corrupted men. At the very least, your becoming insulting through dishonest slandering, kind of makes my argument for me..

I NEVER ever said a thing against other good things that may be inherent in 'gay' people, their lives, or the things they say and do.

My points were to share, what the Bible implicitly states, that men love their sins, and that practicing homosexuals, in particular, may well be given over to this sin, resulting in a reprobate or debased mind. This will darken your understanding. This will make you shun light, and be hard pressed to resist Christ and the Good.

Outside of a work of God's Holy Spirit itself, (because it is only the Holy Spirit which enlightens and speaks Truth to men), you will continue to feel this frustration and disappointment. Because God's Word says your life style is pursuing a lie, (actual words used) and that this is going to deeply effect you.

I have NEVER been anything but kind and respectful to you ca, and, for the most part, everyone here.

I admit my spiritual and social error, airing my disappointment with Mr. McCullough, was an untimely, and, perhaps, unneeded -at least here anyway-thing. To jump to the slanderous, extreme, and untrue, assessments of me, are quite revelatory. As I noted, they are a true illustration of my very points too.

This throwing the baby out with the bath kind of thinking, ca, that you have exhibited towards me,
is a true example of a lack of clarity and balance, and fairness or true insight, that I see in some others who live this 'life' style and their comments here.

I have never said anyone's talks with me here have been a 'waste of time'. And I don't ever recall using the words 'always' when it comes to these things you allude to.

I don't appreciate your misrepresenting me, ca.
While I may have had some recent 'rants' here against this author, that hardly makes me a 'stalker', any more than your practicing a lifestyle abominable to God makes you completely bad, and never, ever good.

Maybe that's not even the best analogy, because, you could be a bad man. But, regardless, my episode of hurt and frustration expressed here, hardly makes ME this creature you have described to others. Because of five minutes in the span of my life, or some words on a screen.

I think you need to be more fair here when accessing others you really don't know about.
You don't know all the story that led up to my comments, ca, and you don't know me. So you really don't know whence you speak.

Although I don't know you personally, I DO know the Word of God, and that gives me a true perspective to speak from when I speak about men's sins, God's will, and how that comes into play with these discussions, and what is the order of the day..

So, while I may not know about you to speak personally, as you have erroneously done to me, I can speak about a lifestyle and what God says about it, and men devoted to worshiping each other and their sin.

You don't know me to speak of me, ca. But I do know God's Word and what He has to say about these things that you do. If you read it, you will see He has an awful lot to say about me and you too.

















MrsV to ca.You Don't Know Me.But God ..
"Sorry, don't try to pin your rants on us...you did that all on your own. You tarnished your (good?) name all by yourself...Yet you do the same thing to gay people. Our intentions and motives are always bad, wicked, and untrue according to you. I thought you and I actually had some sort of civil discussion (before your somewhat stalkerish rant against the author, of course) but I suppose in your mind it was all a waste of time since you were unable to "save" me. oh well."

I never tried to 'pin' anything on anyone, except to the few who had not owned up to it, ca.

You are free to question good of me. And I contend that that is a measure used by morally corrupted men. At the very least, your becoming insulting through dishonest slandering, kind of makes my argument for me..

I NEVER ever said a thing against other good things that may be inherent in 'gay' people, their lives, or the things they say and do.

My points were to share, what the Bible implicitly states, that men love their sins, and that practicing homosexuals, in particular, may well be given over to this sin, resulting in a reprobate or debased mind. This will darken your understanding. This will make you shun light, and be hard pressed to resist Christ and the Good.

Outside of a work of God's Holy Spirit itself, (because it is only the Holy Spirit which enlightens and speaks Truth to men), you will continue to feel this frustration and disappointment. Because God's Word says your life style is pursuing a lie, (actual words used) and that this is going to deeply effect you.

I have NEVER been anything but kind and respectful to you ca, and, for the most part, everyone here.

I admit my spiritual and social error, airing my disappointment with Mr. McCullough, was an untimely, and, perhaps, unneeded -at least here anyway-thing.

To jump to the slanderous, extreme, and untrue, assessments of me, are quite revelatory. As I noted, they are a true illustration of my very points too.

This throwing the baby out with the bath kind of thinking, ca, that you have exhibited towards me,
is a true example of a lack of clarity and balance, and fairness or true insight, that I see in some others who live this 'life' style and their comments here.

I have never said anyone's talks with me here have been a 'waste of time'. And I don't ever recall using the words 'always' when it comes to these things you allude to.

I don't appreciate your misrepresenting me, ca.

While I may have had some recent 'rants' here against this author, that hardly makes me a 'stalker', any more than your practicing a lifestyle abominable to God makes you completely bad, and never, ever good.

Maybe that's not even the best analogy, because, you could be a bad man. But, regardless, my episode of hurt and frustration expressed here, hardly makes you this creature you have described to others. Because of five minutes in he span of my life, or some words on a screen.

I think you need to be more fair here when accessing others you really don't know about.

You don't know all the story that led up to my comments, ca, and you don't know me, so you really don't know whence you speak.

Although I don't know you personally, I DO know the Word of God, and that gives me a true perspective to speak from when I speak about men's sins, God's will, and how that comes into play with these discussions, and what is the order of the day..

So, while I may not know about you to speak personally, as you have erroneously don't to me, I can speak about a lifestyle and what God says about it, and men devoted to worshiping each other and their sin.

You don't know me to speak of me, ca.

But I do know God's Word and what He has to say about these things that you do.

If you read it, you will see He has an awful lot to say about me and you too.

















MrsV to ca.You Don't Know Me.But God ..
"Sorry, don't try to pin your rants on us...you did that all on your own. You tarnished your (good?) name all by yourself...Yet you do the same thing to gay people. Our intentions and motives are always bad, wicked, and untrue according to you. I thought you and I actually had some sort of civil discussion (before your somewhat stalkerish rant against the author, of course) but I suppose in your mind it was all a waste of time since you were unable to "save" me. oh well."

Sorry, don't try to pin your rants on us...you did that all on your own. You tarnished your (good?) name all by yourself.

MrsV
This SAID, my sitting and explaining myself to these unsaved people here was a waste of my good time, and an exercise in futility. Because, in a sense, they weren't just trying to tarnish my good name. They were, also, looking for me to go ON about a closed topic, and did not help, in terms of trying to make me stumble, by going on about my brother's (Mr. McCullough's) sins again.
_________________________________________

Sorry, don't try to pin your rants on us...you did that all on your own. You tarnished your (good?) name all by yourself.

Furthermore:
I NEVER have to be in the position of explaining my OWN heart, mind or intentions to others, unless they are close friends, loved ones, or God.This is because no man here is God, so for them to infer or imply motives about me that are bad, wicked or untrue, suggests that they know my HEART!
__________________________________________

Yet you do the same thing to gay people. Our intentions and motives are always bad, wicked, and untrue according to you. I thought you and I actually had some sort of civil discussion (before your somewhat stalkerish rant against the author, of course) but I suppose in your mind it was all a waste of time since you were unable to "save" me. oh well.

Please Send This Message to KMC, TY
scooter wrote:

"PS Mellor Ignoring the subject seems to be a stalwart talking point of a friend of yours,,,MRS V,,, (she and kathy) Love to give you thier opinion on Religion.... She seems to ignore the fact you may have another religion or none at all.... "

My apologies, if any of my previous posts were confusing, or got lost for a moment on a tangent, or quagmire. But, not mr Mellor here, nor any of those lost in a life of perversion and sin, are friends of mine. Nor are they brothers in Christ, so, you have my assurance, they are not affiliated with me in any way.

The same goes for all the others who have spoken from a liberal ethos on this topic, and board. If my words made readers think less than this, then, my apologies for any lack of clarity, let me be not ashamed. And may my Lord forgive me, if I was too friendly to them, and, in subsequent posts here, making my stance unclear.

You're right, Mellor can't be placed in the same spot as me. He is unredeemed, and loving his life of sin..He-and his liberal & homosexual friends- speaks lies about Christians, conservatives, Mr. McCullough, and me. Spiritually speaking, he is bound by lies, deluded in the spirit of his mind, and speaks for his Father, the Devil..

While I said I had a caring attitude towards some of the unsaved here this past week, that does not mean I am any part of them, or agree with them in any way! I won't stand for letting my good be spoken evil of. I will do better, and make that more good, and more clear! Also, I don't need people like this Mellor here taking me to task for my momentary lapse in good judgment, when posting about Mr. Mc here, and all that confusion.

I NEVER had a motive that was not simply sharing my own story. It was NEVER about hurting Mr. McCullough, embarrassing, him or besmirching his name. (Nor was that to gossip, or talk badly about him..)Coming under the condemning words about that, from Mellor, made me almost question my own motive for a moment..Which made me then get mad, and come back to blame Mr. Mc.

A few days, and prayer, have given me more clarity on these issues..I was really quite sad and upset about all of this..

I NEVER have to be in the position of explaining my OWN heart, mind or intentions to others, unless they are close friends, loved ones, or God.This is because no man here is God, so for them to infer or imply motives about me that are bad, wicked or untrue, suggests that they know my HEART! I came back here to share this, for the sake of myself, and my brethren, and any others, like scooter, here.

This SAID, my sitting and explaining myself to these unsaved people here was a waste of my good time, and an exercise in futility. Because, in a sense, they weren't just trying to tarnish my good name. They were, also, looking for me to go ON about a closed topic, and did not help, in terms of trying to make me stumble, by going on about my brother's (Mr. McCullough's) sins again.

Heaven forbid I should EVER take advice from ANY of the people here, short of my sisters and brothers in Christ! I CAN see how you were confused by my talks here Scooter..Indeed, my being upset, temporarily, allowed emotions to cloud the issue too.

But, I would rather speak well of my brother who has offended me, than to befriend an evildoer, no matter how much I have felt betrayed, hurt or slighted. With this, I would MUCH rather side with my sister or brother, than side with unsaved souls, because, in the end, when they mock my sister or brother in these causes, and the faith, they not only mock my brother, they mock ME! So, for my confusion and doing that here, I am sorry.

But, I can honestly say, that for all the apologies and good well and condescending I meant to dispense, I NEVER meant to give a mis impression about who I am, or where I stand on these issues. And I NEVER meant to give a platform to homosexuals, and liberals against Mr. McCullough, or in any advocacy for them to speak on lie, or news of the day.

For that, and more, including my not-malintended
digression into hurt and disappointment with mr.
KMC, I apologize again. But, this time, I extend my apology to the right people. To the author of this column, and his kin. To our like minded conservative friends..And, most importantly, to all our brothers and sisters in faith.

Now, let us close this little chapter on this forum, and speak rightly and clearly, on all topics. And keep conducting ourselves as in the light of day, as God would have us live.

With this, I hope any offended by these things, either way, will learn God's most important lessons on forgetting and forgiving..Pl

Please Read This Post from MrsV, Apology
scooter wrote:

"PS Mellor Ignoring the subject seems to be a stalwart talking point of a friend of yours,,,MRS V,,, (she and kathy) Love to give you thier opinion on Religion.... She seems to ignore the fact you may have another religion or none at all.... "

My apologies, if any of my previous posts were confusing, or got lost for a moment on a tangent, or quagmire. But, mr Mellor here, nor any of those lost in a life of perversion and sin, are friends of mine. Nor are they brothers in Christ, so, you have my assurance, they are not affiliated with me in any way.

The same goes for all the others who have spoken from a liberal ethos on this topic, and board. If my words made readers think less than this, then, my apologies for any lack of clarity, let me be not ashamed. And may my Lord forgive me, if I was too friendly to them, and, in subsequent posts here, making my stance unclear.

You're right, Mellor can't be placed in the same spot as me. He is unredeemed, and loving his life of sin..He-and his liberal & homosexual friends- speaks lies about Christians, conservatives, Mr. McCullough, and me. Spiritually speaking, he is bound by lies, deluded in the spirit of his mind, and speaks for his Father, the Devil..

While I said I had a caring attitude towards some of the unsaved here this past week, that does not mean I am any part of them, or agree with them in any way! I won't stand for letting my good be spoken evil of. I will do better, and make that more good, and more clear! Also, I don't need people like this Mellor here taking me to task for my momentary lapse in good judgment, when posting about Mr. Mc here, and all that confusion.

I NEVER had a motive that was not simply sharing my own story. It was NEVER about hurting Mr. McCullough, embarrassing, him or besmirching his name. (Nor was that to gossip, or talk badly about him..)Coming under the condemning words about that, from Mellor, made me almost question my own motive for a moment..Which made me then get mad, and come back to blame Mr. Mc.

A few days, and prayer, have given me more clarity on these issues..

I NEVER have to be in the position of explaining my OWN heart, mind or intentions to others, unless they are close friends, loved ones, or God.This is because no man here is God, so for them to infer or imply motives about me that are bad, wicked or untrue, suggests that they know my HEART! I came back here to share this, for the sake of myself, and my brethren, and any others, like scooter, here.

This SAID, my sitting and explaining myself to these unsaved people here was a waste of my good time, and an exercise in futility. Because, in a sense, they weren't just trying to tarnish my good name. They were, also, looking for me to go ON about a closed topic, and did not help, in terms of trying to make me stumble, by going on about my brother's (Mr. McCullough's) sins again.

Heaven forbid I should EVER take advice from ANY of the people here, short of my sisters and brothers in Christ! I CAN see how you were confused by my talks here Scooter..Indeed, my being upset, temporarily, allowed emotions to cloud the issue too.

But, I would rather speak well of my brother who has offended me, than to befriend an evildoer, no matter how much I have felt betrayed, hurt or slighted. With this, I would MUCH rather side with my sister or brother, than side with unsaved souls, because, in the end, when they mock my sister or brother in these causes, and the faith, they not only mock my brother, they mock ME! So, for my confusion and doing that here, I am sorry.

But, I can honestly say, that for all the apologies and good well and condescending I meant to dispense, I NEVER meant to give a mis impression about who I am, or where I stand on these issues. And I NEVER meant to give a platform to homosexuals, and liberals against Mr. McCullough, or in any advocacy for them to speak on lie, or news of the day.

For that, and more, including my not-malintended
digression into hurt and disappointment with mr.
KMC, I apologize again. But, this time, I extend my apology to the right people. To the author of this column, and his kin. To our like minded conservative friends..And, most importantly, to all our brothers and sisters in faith.

Now, let us close this little chapter on this forum, and speak rightly and clearly, on all topics. And keep conducting ourselves as in the light of day, as God would have us live.

With this, I hope any offended by these things, either way, will learn God's most important lessons on forgetting and forgiving..








Mellor
Ignore it again please..

Why are laws changed (by judges) in society SODOMY, MARRIAGE, ADOPTION for the Rights of Gays (being a minority),,
When they cannot for AGE OF CONSENT, SPECIES OF CONSENT for the Rights of Pedophiles and Bestials (also being minorities)??? (to be a minority also takes a judges ruling)

Please don't answer this question as you will have to lie to yourself over and over again...

Just make yourself feel better by saying something like,,,"i discussed this before" or "you repeat yourself" or "constitution protects the rights of minorities" but not all EEHHHHHH

The issue has been discussed....
..and you have made no contribution.

So get lost. G'bye!

PS Mellor
Ignoring the subject seems to be a stalwart talking point of a friend of yours,,,MRS V,,, (she and kathy) Love to give you thier opinion on Religion.... She seems to ignore the fact you may have another religion or none at all....

Yep,, you 2 can humor each other for years and never get to discuss the issue... (sounds like OPRAH,, can I watch)?

Mellor
I should have known....

another LIBERAL in IGNORANCE BLISS..

What was I thinking, you would discuss the process of Gay Rights and not Pedophile or Bestial Rights? NOT,,

Good call on ignoring the issue, if you had you would have had to change your opinion.

You repeat yourself.
I won't.

Mellors , Back to the Beginning
You are right again,,, I agree with you that the constitution
"protects the rights of Minorities"

So The Gay Rights movement is a MINORITY. Well so is the Pedophile and Bestial Rights movements,, GET IT

Just like laws on SODOMY, Marriage, and Adoption are changed to "protect the rights of Minorities" or Gays,,
Why cannot Age of Consent and Species of Consent be changed to "protect the rights of Minorities or Pedophiles and Bestials?
If not please explain how the process for Gays cannot be followed by Pedo's or Bestials? Or other "Minorities" with rights we have not thought of in the future.

I keep telling other Libs,,, "whats good for the goose is good for the gander"

Again,,, I suggest we leave the recognizing of RIGHTS and laws to accomodate them up to the PEOPLE thru CONGRESS and not Judges.

And it just goes on...
MrsV continues with her personal therapy session about something nothing cares about. I especially like "Please stop asking me to go on about things I wish to forget and forgive.." Well, sure! Just shut the hell up! (And she thinks she's not deluded!)

Salade Nicoise tonight, and stir-fry chicken with enoki and matsuzake mushrooms tomorrow. Tuesday night in Barcelona. Tapas.... Mmmmm.


Wow
Mrs.C: um...I don't really know what to say...

der_iron_chef: mm...bratwurst.

on KMC, you folks are funny..Re cold bro
"Zzzzzz MrsV, I realize you're not able to delete comments once you post them. And that must suck....because I think you've behaved kind of badly here! I hate to say it, but....it's true."


You people are funny..

I apologize for getting into a discussion I should not have here. But felt the need to, because I was upset, and tired of the experience. And I shared it on here, but realized going on about it is something I should not have done.

Even though I can take back nothing I said, because an error in social graces that I made, is
NOT the same as making slanderous remarks, saying lies that are detrimental, or cutting down a man.
It is simply a reaction to frustration and futility due to another's sin and error.

Then I realized, hey, why am I demurring, when
this author has, clearly, been persistently unkind to me. I went to lengths to explain this, as a courtesy, I didn't have to..because others here asked me too..(Next time, please, just scroll up..)And the next thing I know someone is making a comment about snoring, and asking me why I am sharing this, again. I acted out of frustration, and simple tiredness, when I spoke here about Mr. McCullough. It does not mean the things I shared are not true...

At this point, it is a natural fact to me, that he does not care about *my* family's offense or opinions. And that's entirely fine. Because this was never about *me*, and we agree with him on issues. He has sufficiently put me off, probably, forever, but we will always agree with him on most issues. Enough said. The problem, for me, was when he made it about me, speaking lies etc., and then talks about being a Christian brother.

I have accepted that not every one we agree with will like us, or think well of us. Some will even
paint us in a very bad light, and always see us as bad or wrong. In this case, from him to us, that definitely includes Mr. Mc.

I don't appreciate, however, people asking me to share my experience, and I take time to do that as a courtesy, just to get more chastening comments, because I made a mistake in going on about it on here. This has effectively turned me off from a lot of people...

Not just Mr. Mc, but most of those who comment here. And most who have to do with him...

I don't enjoy cruel people...or those who think because a thing is said in private, that God can't see hear and deal...

I really don't like snobs, or those who imagine their good fortune makes others envious, when they aren't, or just mediocre people to look down upon, because of different social status, or that they don't agree.

I don't enjoy the dishonest measure of those who walk in more prominent walks in Christ life assuming that hob knobbing with celebs, and mingling with famous pastors, or achieving a certain lifestyle, somehow imbues said party with some sort of EXTRA or SPECIAL moral clarity, or superiority. THAT especially bothers me. Because it's a big fat lie, and nothing could be further from the truth.

Are all these bad things I've said, above, Mr. McCullough? Maybe not all, not likely. But this is surely some of the 'tude that comes forth on people. Including me and you...

I really don't want to talk about this guy anymore though...

My stance is a balance between standing for God's will, and being more defensive about a Christian brother who is prone to think the worst of some, and stuck being a bit of a boastful individual.

I still forgive him, and I hope, for any offenses here, he forgives me.

That doesn't mean things haven't changed...

But I am not an authority on him. And it's silly to think anyone could. Nor is he an authority on me and my family. On the issues, and his insights about others, and their bad behaviors, excluding us in this instance, we are agreed...

That's not hypocritical, nor above reproach. I have made amends where I have been wrong. The vast majority of the time, I have not done or said anything particularly bad worth note, quite frankly.

This man makes hundreds of thousands of dollars by every comment I make for him here...

I lose precious time, and probably the little money we do make, in our day, to go on about his offenses here...

Who wins?!

Enough about this man already...

He is probably off on some plane or ocean front, having tapas and coconut shrimp...somewhere...

While we are saving money for a newly dead car, and a dying air conditioner...

And people want to digress into personal attacks, as he has, and harassments...devoid of insight, fairness, or grace...

I have had enough of all about this person...

It's gotten to be too much, and I am losing interest as a fan...

No more enriching some cold brotha who could give a rat's buns...

Take care

p.s. Oh yes, Mr. McCullough and I have never had
a "relationship". Just him misjudging me. And email incidents. Period.

Please stop asking me to go on about things I wish to forget and forgive..
It’s making me out to be more of a devoted fan than, at this point, I may ever care to be..










Zzzzzz
MrsV, I realize you're not able to delete comments once you post them. And that must suck....because I think you've behaved kind of badly here! I hate to say it, but....it's true.

The truth, as I see it, is that you've just gotten a taste of the nasty that comes from McCullough's mouth on a regular basis. Except, for once, it was directed at you, and not at the filthy homos.

Mellor, how was the meal? I had bratwurst last night and it was fabulous :)

My KMC experience. Last, please..
I am going to try to make a last effort to explain my experience with Kevin, for the clarity of readers here, and to bring fairness to that, and to his cause and name.

I began my daily listening to Kevin McCullough’s radio show in the summer of 2003. When I first started to listen, I agreed with much of what he said, because he spoke as a Christian, from a conservative perspective. At that time, I began searching websites for answers to some of these terrible news items, ‘gay’s wanting to ‘marry’, for instance. So, I looked at different perspectives. But I was not completely informed, so sometimes came across things that had some truth, but were also wrong. I was not/am not involved in politics, so it took some time for me to have more clarity there.

I think Mr. McCullough’s show helped me with that, because he was daily in contact with such people, and spoke from a Christian radio station, which I trust for its message, and mode of operating.

My initial emails back and forth with Mr. McCullough had, amongst them, misunderstandings where my motives were constantly put into question. These misunderstandings were persistent, hurtful, and seemingly, unending. He went so far to say in one reply, that he did not make friendships “with everyone”, which was kind of insulting, since that was never what I was seeking, nor did my words or communiques imply that. But the fact that he would say that certainly made it more than clear where I stood in the midst of those things.

I always felt the need to explain myself. And, for what it’s worth, I always still was a fan, and felt what he had to say about enemies of our nation, the Christian faith, and
moves against the family, and God’s will in society were always, and irrevocably, true.

After awhile and some more misunderstandings and re explanations, some by him, most by me, he and I finally made peace. I felt I earned this, in a sense, because I thought I had finally made it clear me and my family have never been against his show, his people, nor enemies to him or his cause.

I felt good about this peace and made sure to sent notes of prayer, advice and encouragement, as any fan would, when he asked for prayers for him or his loved ones, on occasional sharings on his show. At times, I would still disagree with minor points, but never in a way to hurt him, his reputation, nor his show.

I knew, in a sense, my Christian family would always remain outsiders looking in, when it came to associations with him. But that was fine, because, we just agreed with him and his cause, and were simply, again, just fans of his show.

Recently, I wrote him an email about taxes and money, and shared I was not convinced of some things he shared on his show. Peace seemed to be made there again. He was kind enough to even send me an autographed book. But then peace seemed to deteriorate, when I sent a query, not understanding his reply. He came back with a very rude and terse reply-calling my email reply a “book”..(It was a bit long, hardly a book..My point is, he was back to rude..)

And he said other things which were not very nice, and the entire set of words and tone was disrespectful. When I called him on this, HE wrote back and said I was “insulting and arrogant”. Completely closed his eyes to how rude he was at that moment, and in previous then recent emails, and then said I “attach (ed) emotional sensitivity to anything critical that is mentioned - no matter how kindly it is attempted to be said.” But that’s just not true! I CAN be overly sensitive. But so can this author. I CAN write long postings, but I don’t send books.

So, essentially, this was a discussion between one non-judgmental and pretty fair person, who can occasionally be a bit overly sensitive, ME..
-and a man who generally sees issues in black and white, but sadly, sometimes takes it WAY overboard, misses the nuances, and then false judges and mislabels people who are not enemies to him-Mr. KMC..

That email, and the ones surrounding it, showed a pattern for this author, which was to make things personal, in a negative way, while keeping up this seeming avid interest in impugning my character, and looking to find bad things in me. He wasn’t successful. But his emails were voraciously trying!

This was absolutely sad, since his previous recent email sharings were generous and thoughtful, and honest, and clear about his background as a journalist, and things about his life, that, I guess, for me as a fan, in the context of my questions or queries, he wanted me to know.. He was very giving with his email sharing and I thought it was very thoughtful for him to take the time

I never wrote him back about it. I lost my interest with that, after four years, because of his reverting back to nastiness and being rude.. Because I felt this person, regardless of being a Christian brother, had his communiqués deteriorate to ones that attacked my character personally, constantly moved in a way that were based on a profound mistrust (not to trust strangers, but a true animosity), and just an avid interest in continually to misjudge, and think the worst of me.

After four years, I finally gave up.

Then, in another recent column, where I didn’t agree with one point he made. He replied to me there, in a way looking to chasten me and –I don’t know-possibly embarrass me-in front of all the commenters and others.

At that point I had finally had it and told him where to go. NOT because I disagree with him on issues, but because HE continues to love to think and speak the WORST of me, a woman he does not really even know...And the facts remained, he had seen and heard enough from me to know we are people on his side and the cause of his show.

I am NOT for liberal causes. I don’t agree with anyone but Kevin and the conservatives and conservative Christians here. I will NOT be making it my pastime or career to knock Kevin McCullough, his motives or his show.

I said in another area here, I don’t think he gives a ‘rat’s buns’ about me, because after those emails, and the previous ones, that’s how anyone would feel.

I understand that that may not really matter, because it’s just one person’s personal experience. But we are also long term fans of his show. And my hurt and pain may have been experienced by others. So that’s why I wanted them to know.

I will still stand by this columnist and author when he is correct, and because, mostly, he has been. My personal feelings about him, and hurt and disappointment with him have nothing to do with the merit or truth behind his sharings that I know of.

It is painful to retell this story.

Please don’t ask me to talk on him about this anymore




Honestly, I don't care about...
... your relationship to Kevin McCullough.

As for this, "I don't have any imaginary friend." You don't? What's this: "If you are referring to my God, Christ my Lord, I resent the words and the implication."

And I resent the laws that people attempt to pass based on no more evidence that '[their]imaginary friend said so.' I don't try to stop you eating a big pile of sauerkraut with chopped up wieners and no bun, do I? Hank says it's disgusting, and he'll kick your @ss if you do it. But if you kiss his @ss, he'll give you a million dollars! Just so long as you only eat wieners in buns with no condiments. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ around the 6 minute mark.) How would you feel if I tried to pass laws like this?

Believe me, lots of people (over 4 billion) think your friend is imaginary. They've just been taught an exaggerated respect for religion, so they don't say so.

Defense of KMC & his work, again
der_iron_chef wrote: "Wow And again I say, wow. I think I'll just sit back and let the fundies do my work for me :)"

MellorSJ2 wrote: "And I *still* have no idea...... what Kevin did to MrsV! She has, though, come to the realization that Kevin is "musclehead" in more ways that one. Let's move on to your imaginary friend now, MrsV"

I am not here, by any means, to do the job of a liberal. What I said above about Mr. McCullough must be taken in context. As what I shared only applies to *my* experience with him, not on his columns or radio show.

Generally speaking, my family and I have been in agreement with almost 100% of ALL Kevin McCullough has to say..

That is giving him a very HIGH rank as for his ability to advocate for Truth-God's will God's way, speak to the lies that Democrats, Liberals and related parties do, and expose liberal and Godless acts, behaviors and activities throughout the world, nation, and our local community.

I DON'T see Him as a person who works in lies..
Only that he actively sought to believe lies about an ardent fan, ME.

If anything, Kevin McCullough, from what I see, has based his career on the foundation of Truth.
He is also a Pastor, though he may have to become more kind and loving, that makes the message, motive and content of his words and work NO less loving for his conveying them.

Again, *I* had a bad experience. This is isolated, and by FAR NOT how I have seen KMC deal with truth, others, or how he handles issues.

So, my comments must be taken in context. They cannot and should NOT be applies as a general all-purpose way of describing Mr. McCullough, his behaviors, or actions.

I won't go back and detail what I have already forgiven. It would be wrong to continue to make this a forum about his offense to me, because God's Word says love covers a multitude of sins.
But it also says expose the fruitless works of darkness.

I was not, and am not, looking to 'expose' KMC.
He is imperfect, like all of us, but, by and large, there is no unfruitful work of darkness I need to expose about him.

So, when reading my comment above, please keep in mind, that, by FAR, does not exist as my sharing general rules by which to come to conclusions about Mr. McCullough.

The VAST majority of what he does is just to valuable and good for me to have any interest in going on about how *I* was hurt, because of being misjudged by him.

He HAS been judgmental of me. But I don't think he's been judgmental, or unkind to liberals, Democrats, gays, Hollywood, or all the others.

So, that's where that post was coming from..

NOT because he is judgmental as a rule, from what I've seen, and NOT because he can't hear wrong about himself. As everyday, I am sure he does..

Now, him hurting *me*, well, that's a different story..

I got fed up about that..

That's why I wrote that here..

For Mellor, I don't have any imaginary friend..
If you are referring to my God, Christ my Lord, I resent the words and the implication.

I hope this clears things up..

Bye, take care.









Back to the beginning...
The constitution protects the rights of minorities, as you appeared to accept after my post of Friday at 6:28pm.

What that means is that the government--and the majority--cannot impose their will on a minority.

Of course, your will to rape, pillage, and murder may be limited. The basis for that limitation of your rights is whether it harms the rights of others.

Similarly, we have the right to enter into contracts and associations. Again, that right can be limited to the extent (in this case) that one of the parties can be coerced, as is the case with children.

The concept of Consent can be changed if we change the Constitution.


Mellor,
Please refer to your post on Informed Equal Consent (8:53am).

My comments were ridiculing you for mentioning the law on CONSENT without recognizing, this law is just as open and changable to another groups rights as SODOMY, MARRIAGE, AND ADOPTION are open and changable to GAYS..

Your comments appeared to suggest that CONSENT cannot be changed.. They can now with the process perfected by the Gay Rights LOBBY.

You seem like a smart fellow tell me why Consent cannot ever be unconstitutional or changed when Sodomy, Marriage, and Adoption can?


And I *still* have no idea...
... what Kevin did to MrsV!

She has, though, come to the realization that Kevin is "musclehead" in more ways that one.

Let's move on to your imaginary friend now, MrsV.

Wow
And again I say, wow.

I think I'll just sit back and let the fundies do my work for me :)

O FOO on McCullough..Last On This Here..
O FOO on McCullough..


I had a whole day to think about this..

And why should *I* be the one to blend into this virtual woodwork and whimper away?

I'M not the one who claims Christ as my Saviour as a celebrity, and snaps people's heads off with one cold flick of the keyboard wrist..

I'M not the one who can be SO nasty in a non public forum, it makes relatively defenseless women cry..

I'M not the one who's very ego proceeds them into any location, to such a degree, that the slightest disagreement becomes huge and distorted..and skewed..
ALWAYS in *my* favor..

I'M not the one who seems to make peace with a supportive fan-just to turn on them-eventually..in a ruthless way..
Hoping to think the very WORST of them all along..

Talk about inauthenticity..

I'M not the one using his big famous posture to try to diminish fans in a public forum..
just because I think I can..

No...*I* don't do ANY of those things..

Unlike big foo Mr. McCullough..

Let him keep making the big mistakes he does..

And keep putting his big mean foot in it..

Who cares who is a fan of his anyway?

When there are bills to pay, books to sell..

And fellow sisters in Christ to slander, accuse and misjudge?


(You know, real enemies of the cause..)


Maybe, if he's wise..and God's merciful..

(Despite the mercy Mc's withheld from quite a few..)

KMC will get just what he deserves..

And have a good long time to sit on his judgmental hiney..

For all the many MIS judgments he has made..
in God's name..of, likely MANY good and decent people..

I won't come back and apologize for this..

He can kiss my foot as far as I'm concerned..

A man can still be often right about others, and their motives, and misdeeds of evil..

But when this fellow & crons jumps on folks like me, who have rarely done him anything but good,
he sinks deep in the mire of lies and self delusion..

The confusion there, the likes of which, would probably scare off Satan himself..

Yes pray for Mr. McCullough, perhaps he'll get a stroke of Divine conscience, in an unlikely place..

Like his heart, maybe..


We'll probably all be in the afterlife waiting for THAT apology..anyway..

NOW I am ready to end this topic, and walk away..










What the?
I have NO idea where you these ideas that you bizarrely attribute to me, scooter.

Please try again. With evidence.

Fox?
The most laughable part of this silly little tirade is that KMC actually considers Fox to be news!

Here's some news for you, KMC: Fox is nothing but a 24/7/365 propoganda machine for the failed Bush Presidency.

Nice try!!!!

Mellor also
Also to those who are HOMOPHOBES please follow Mellors example of not recognizing Judges ability to change law for communities RIGHTS.

If you say that Judges cannot bring Gays out of the Closet because SODOMY is the Law of the land and Judges cannot mess with this sacred cow.. MARRIAGE (1man 1woman) is the law of the land and Judges cannot mess with this sacred cow.. Please make sure you ignore, revolt, and act in all manner of rebellion to protect your sacred cows.

Hey MELLOR what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander,,

Mellor
Thanks for clearing that up, I sure do feel better knowing YOU can decide for judges what is and is not CONSENT.

Judges can just as easily change laws regarding Consent (probably easier) for communities Rights as they can for Sodomy, Marriage, Adoption etc..
Wait, Wait,, ,, of course they can't, you said they cannot do that...

I also can make myself feel better by claiming CONSENT is a sacred cow they cannot change... (or any other law in the future for future RIGHTS)

Here's a thought for you MELLOR,, Why is the Law on CONSENT any more or less sacred than the LAW on Marriage, Sodomy, or Adoption?

HMMMM sounds similar to 30 years ago when Gays were looking for people just to accept them for who they are, it's not like they were looking to change MARRIAGE or anything.

If only YOU were the one to make these decisions MELLOR, you could insure that your community (gays) has rights but those sick and twisted others (pedo's and Bestials) they need to stay in the closet (or worse).
"because you said so"

I am relieved to know that your opinion on what the Judiciary will rule on these laws will be final,,, forever more.. Thank you MELLOR

re KMC etc. So so embarassing..
MellorSJ2 wrote:

"Thanks for kind words, MrsV. As for my opinion of you, well, you're whiny, long-winded, and confused by your imaginary friend, but altogether not a bad sort. Except for your mail to Kevin McC, you've show less than the usual xian hatred and bigotry."


I wanted to come back and say I am sorry to this group, for my asides about Mr. Mc. In a recent column, I won't detail, he was seeming to give a chiding reply to one of my comments. This was not so long after a set of contentious recent email, which I shared. I took this person to task then and there.

But then I felt bad, because I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's reputation. Let alone hurt it so publically. (Not that I'd do that in private either, but I was making a point, but still..)

And, so, I made a positive comment at the beginning of this column's comments area, to try to balance that, and be fair. Mainly, because, as I shared, the columnist's message is more important to me than anything having to do with contentions, regardless of disappointing experience with the messenger.

I AM sorry for my digressing, and going into those long asides of disappointment with this column's author here. I thought about this last night, and realized, it may have seemed unlike what it actually was, when I was going on about it here. Maybe revenge, sour grapes..No, not really..

I never meant for this to forum to be *my* chance for some kind of gossip or retaliation at anyone, or a pity party or anything. I know some may not buy that, but coming off of the heels of another recent column, where I felt I was, again, being harassed, it almost seemed natural to voice that frustration here. That, and at the time, I felt I was doing others a service, in case they were stuck in a situation as I'd been with those things.

I suppose when you feel a contention has run its course, and had a bad and unjust end, we say these things, not thinking anyone's going to care either way.

I never thought of Mr. McCullough as my friend, real or imagined, either. Nor was I looking for ever, in any context, nor by sharing here. Not an enemy..either..

I saw a lot of people suggesting he was bad, and they were voicing complaints about him. I suppose I thought telling a bit about my bad scene would help them see that, sometimes, the message is more important than the personality.

But, maybe, I could have said that without sharing that all, I don't know..

Anyway, I really don't plan on talking about that anymore. There is no sense going on in public forums about people, when we generally meant the best..

Sometimes, we get tired, busy..
We say things here..
No edit button..
No delete..

I think I was ranting..
More like, maybe, thinking aloud..

Sorry people..it really wasn't done in
malice..

Didn't mean to get so personal..

And no, I am not "confused"..


But, anyway..

(Give me a poem for a graceful escape)


O well..embarrassing..

lol


So so

embarrassing..



*lifts imaginary curtain, walks away..*







In other news.....
...it's so hot here today. Maybe God is preparing me for hell.

Clarify?
Scooter writes: "Now explain how the Minority Gay community should be protected (Sodomy, Marriage, Adoption etc). But not the Minority Pedophile community (age of consent, Species of consent, Marriage (them too), etc..."

Informed equal consent. A child cannot agree, as an equal, to have sex with an adult.



All conservative xians think about...
...is sex.

Der_iron_chef and I are having a side convo about food, and MrsV thinks we're about to get a room. Amazing.

Thanks for kind words, MrsV. As for my opinion of you, well, you're whiny, long-winded, and confused by your imaginary friend, but altogether not a bad sort. Except for your mail to Kevin McC, you've show less than the usual xian hatred and bigotry.

But you have made your bed with the likes of Kathy. Now you'll have to lie in it.

MrsV
Well then, perhaps we'll just agree to disagree.

I really don't want to rent a room with Mellor, though I'm sure he's a fine individual. I have a long-term partner of my own. I will never, however, refuse a free meal :)

Blogging sublimation
I thought I’d check back and see where this thread had gone. I’m glad to read that you all are as intense, committed, and certain as ever. You realize, of course all this righteous indignation is simply a substitute for sex. Whatever gets you off I suppose.

iron chef @ mellor..rent a room, and..
"Oh no. My mother's soul would burst from her body and speed up to Heaven is she read this! How on earth is it okay to be mean, just because your heart is in it, or because the message is valiant and true? It's so unbiblical!! It's unreal! It's shooting yourself in the foot! It's a self-defeating and hypocritical method that is SO obvious to me. You know, it's like saying, "Don't steal!" while you have your hand in someone else's purse. Seriously, I'm so stumped."


And it's fine to live in a homosexual "life" style, because you are-otherwise
"great and nice and law abiding people"..or whatever someone said..?

I never said Kevin was right to be mean..

Honestly, you folks said my words are "hateful", and I felt nothing of the sort.

I shared, as a person a long time in the arts, AND an artist, I have made the acquaintance of a lot of gay males.
Most of them were in college, right before I became a Christian.

I lost touch with them, college students going separate ways. But I remember what their lives were like, the bars, drinking, loneliness, a lot of this was hid..

My cousin was my friend all my adult life. He was 11 years older than me. He died at 39. He lived in a famously homosexual area of Greenwich Village.

I shared about him because of my loss, and so that readers would understand there is dimension to people here, and not just you..

No one has to lecture me that there are gifted, sensitive, talented, and "otherwise good" people who are practicing gays.

Honestly, this cardboard stereotype you have of so many of us is deeply offensive. And, on that, you're preaching to the choir.

My nature is to be kind. I don't like to be a people pleaser.

I understand Kevin can be cruel..

I shared I had been the unwitting victim of his snappishness
(a word? :^) ) and harsh attitude via emails, for like, almost ages.

I strongly sense that, despite the fact that we are also Christians, and long term fans of his radio station and show, that I am not on his list of people he thinks well of. And surely not a friend. Though we wish them well, and are of his cause..

This is not to say I am an enemy. For on most of his points, we are 100% agreed. basically, I am just a fan, and kind of a stranger..I think that he does have a gift of seeing others' motives. Though not always kindly, mercifully, or accurately, sadly, for me..I think he also may have some prophetic gifts.

For what it's worth, I shared what I said, because, despite how the man has continued to think the very worst of me-again, just a long term fan, but, basically, just another Christian stranger-his points about Right and Wrong, and society's ills, and the lack of moral clarity today have been absolutely true!

As a Christian, I am going to gravitate to Truth. Obviously, ideally, we want expressions done as speaking and sharing the Truth in love. If your folks are missionaries, you understand what I am trying to say.

As for Mellor here-I am simply disconnecting and detaching myself from him.

Iron chef, I don't mind you..I have answers to your sharings for another time. It's late here..But I respect your honesty, and appreciate your candor and sharing. Same with "Lucifer", though I really don't like his name..

I said "rent a room", because Townhall is not a place for dating, to my understanding, or a personals place for 'gay' men to get together..Though do what you will behind your own scenes..

(Maybe not your intention, but was not understanding the personal digression there..)

In any case, as long as it's kind and respectful, I will be glad to talk with you and answer any questions, Iron Chef.

Not Mellor though..

Ironically, talking about rude..I find him pretty nasty and offensive..I can't get with that sort of spirit..

In closing, I'll say, the mean spirit of KMC is hardly a draw for those of us who are more on the sensitive side, and occasionally, maybe, overly.

I remember, in particular, one email he sent as a reply about two years ago, that was so scathing, it actually brought me to tears.

Of course, I was pregnant at the time, and in about a week's time, I was about to lose our first baby. So, being pretty emotional/hormonal may have had a thing to do with it. But, the reply was pretty darned nasty, still..

That's all bad I have to say on him..
I really am NOT here to go on about his wrongs..I can't explain why I've been a fan..Other than all I've said..

I am not a fan of the cruel, nor synthetic..
I tend to react to that like ice..

I don't like unfairness towards ANYONE..straight 'gay' or indifferent..

But there is only good in the content of this columnists messages..

I cannot speak to the kindness, or gentleness in the delivery...


God bless, take care










Please Clarify Mellor
Thanks for discussing..

The constitution protects Minorities from the will of the Majority>>>

Very true,, very true,,,
Now explain how the Minority Gay community should be protected (Sodomy, Marriage, Adoption etc)
But not the Minority Pedophile community (age of consent, Species of consent, Marriage (them too), etc...

What makes one group a minority but not the other? (yours and my opinion i'm guessing)
Again the answer is to let the people decide what is and is not a RIGHT...

Well, I'm not far away...
..as I'm living in the UK now, looking after the parents. (Anyone for "family values"? Huh?!?) And in Spain next week, too. Anyway, let's eat!

As for Japan, I'm going there to speak at a conference, then a press interview. Then I have a ticket left over from a trip last year from Europe to Japan to Australia, which was cheaper if I flew further....so I added some miles in Japan.

(I priced a trip today... BOS-JAX-LHR: $1200. BOS-JAX-LHR-SFO: $900. WTF?)

I grooved on the wrong thing...
IronChef writes: "And I think we are winning. We're winning because we haven't chosen to be this way....and because there ARE so many of us that are good, honest, moral people."

Damn right.

But, hey! We're gay. So we must be evil!

On another thread, I suggested that Kathy's grandchildren _could_ be gay, and asked how she would feel about that. I added a full paragraph that said I hoped they were not because, even in 2007 (+10 years while they grow up), it is still a chore to be gay.

The hate messages I got! Why would I wish being gay on anyone? Well, duh, I DIDN'T, you morons. And even if I did, we're only talking the denial of over 1000 rights given to married folk, the inability to direct the life decisions of our sick partner when opposed by his parents, and the hatred of the likes of Kathy and MrsV.

A mere pecadillo!

Sure, I want everyone to endure that. Not! (Just in case some twit decides to quote me out of context as they do Will.)

Mellor/Scooter
Mellor...wow. Can I come over for dinner (strictly for dinner, see. I wouldn't want anyone thinking we're up to anything perverse. Though it's probably not even worth clarifying, since we're so controlled by our lusts and would be unable to behave decently).

And...what takes you to Japan? I'm jealous!

Scooter...I don't necessarily disagree with you. I personally don't care how people get their rights/equality...just that they get it :)

Clarify?
Ever heard of the Constitution?

The Constitution protects minorities from the will of the majority.

:)
Der_iron_chef writes: "Why the name Der_Iron_Chef? Well, I lived in Germany, hence the "der"! I love the show "The Iron Chef", and I'm an avid cook/baker/eater :)"

Wakarimasu. (Verstehen.)

One of the best shows on TV. Unfortunately, in the US market where I most often see the show, they've replaced subtitles with dubbing. You miss soooo much of the Japanese sensibility. Pity!

Tomorrow, I think, chicken, enoki and matsuzake mushrooms cooked in ginger and chili, with a side of peppers.

Then again, it's only a week till I go to Tokyo, then south to Shikoku... Oiishidesu ne! Jawohl!

Clarify,,,
To those supporting Gay Rights,,,
This in no way means there should not be Gay Rights,,, It means that all Rights for all Communities should be accountable to the people thru the Legislative or Voting methods and not Judges,,,,

This way when groups get Rights we don't agree with welll,,, the people have spoken and ya gotta live with that.

Insulting?
I wish that were all!

Let's recall MrsV's line: "There is nothing I have done, or said, here that exhibits 'bigotry'"

Yeah, right.

Holy cow,,, Mrs v, Kathy
Mrs V,, What difference does your religion make to others who don't feel the same way about it as you?

Does telling someone else (not living Gods law) they are going to hell or they are a LIAR make you feel better?

Why bring your religion into a discussion where others clearly don't share it? Does this further your goal whatever it is?

I know deep down you are trying to save these souls, but your methods are useless and baseless.
Try being a little (lot) more tactfull and forgiving ehhhh.

Meller,,, I see your comment on slippery slope,,, the legal precidence still stands... I've made a point how others WILL get these RIGHTS in the Future but COULD get them right now...
Please tell me how Pedo's or Bestials cannot (or should) and how we should change the system of recognizing RIGHTS. (remember the slippery slope argument was used by those for Gay rights 30 years ago to let them out of the closet,, now it's on to marriage and adoptions)
MUST BE SOME SLOPE,,EHHHH

Der Iron Chef,, I'm not bringing religion, the bible, etc ,,, Just BAD LAW,, The process of Gay Rights is Bad Law and will lead to other Rights you might not agree with. Please straiten me out or just agree...

I'll help with the Kathy bits....
"Secure those rights to Go to Tacitus-
Yes you will secrue your right to go to your true destination. Does it ring a bell??? There's a place for one's whom practice devaincy. Can you guess what it might be. It called guess, _ell, I let you fill in the blank."

Super awesome and Christ-like. Or Pharisee-like. I haven't decided.

"What does a man have to show for life What does a man have to show for life??? If he does not produce life??? What does he show his God, what does he show his parents, and what does he show children???? Only that devaincy is more important than life itself. For they are liars and biggots and haters of the creation of life. They lie to children and give a show of barren and unfruitful associates. They struggle with confusion over the most basic sexual idenity. A man, whom is the giver of life, the creator, as God has made him in His image."

This is just ignorant. AND it's unbiblical. It's actually a secular idea. Platonic (as in, Plato). If Kathy and her husband ever used a condom, then clearly, they're also guilty of complete sexual immorality.

"Married for over twenty years Ayana-Run with you devaint tricks…"

Also awesome. And Christ-like. Or Ann Coulter-like.

"A Child's Innocence A child is innocent, until he, or she is infected by the filth that their parent and others teach, indoctrinate them into. People say kid's are so cruel, not true unti you take that sponge and fill it with your crap. Yes I know, I have two daughter, they don't sware, smoke nor drink. They are both married and take awesome care of their family. Care is what is suppose to happen in a family, I know because I am a mother. I would not talk filthy and would not display sexual practices to my children. I guess that's why they have always cared about others, they have always done very nice things for people, young and old. Children that are taught respect, discipline, moral and values, are the luckiest children of all, for they have true character, true respect and find true love. I see the beast they call people today, they go out into public and display horrible acts of immoral behaviors, they drag children into this very distasteful acts. They are clueless about what children need and are intitled too. Yes soceity is really getting quite ill. I can only pray that God will interviene, that he will bring light into a hurting world, at least for the precious children, God's Children. Amen!!! Praise Jesus!!!"

This just makes me want to scream. The picture she paints of someone like me is an insidious, pedophilic, and evil monster out to corrupt and destroy your family and children. It's outrageous. And it's insane, because I'm gay, but I'm also kind, courteous, respectful, giving, loving, self-sacrificing, honorable, just, and just plain lovable. It's so insulting that, simply because someone is gay, they automatically have some evil agenda, and have NO morality by which they live their lives.


Mellor
Thanks. Yeah, truly, it's a sucky choice to have to make. People just don't understand it. It's so frustrating. It's like insisting that someone not be black or asian. *sigh*

And I think we are winning. We're winning because we haven't chosen to be this way....and because there ARE so many of us that are good, honest, moral people.

P.S. Why the name Der_Iron_Chef? Well, I lived in Germany, hence the "der"! I love the show "The Iron Chef", and I'm an avid cook/baker/eater :)

Without getting _too_personal...
Thanks for sharing that with us, ironchef. I know it's not easy. I'm sorry.

For myself (see subject), I decided to put career--and the appearances required--ahead of my sexual life. I don't regret it, but I resent very VERY strongly the need to make a choice.

We shouldn't have to. And we don't have to. And, best of all, we don't need to anymore (by and large). Yet these disgusting creatures think they're moral!

I vomit on their sickening religion.

Never fear. We're winning. We've won, in fact. Hence the ever-increasing craziness here and from the likes of Phelps and his whelps. (You know who you are, Kathy.)

Pity it's too late for us. And--in all seriousness--for them too, the poor deluded fools.

PS Why der_?

Get a grip II
Try reading all of Kathy's posts. She's, (IM(unqulaified)O, schizophrenic, and, like you, delusional.

Sometimes she can write sentences; sometimes even poetry. Most of the time, it's incoherent ranting that's not even in English, unadulterated hate of gay people, or that "Praise Jesus! Amen!" bs.

Every so often, the true Kathy comes out: A screaming, hating, beeatch. I thought I'd kept her best post, but I was remiss.

The woman needs help, not protection from pointing out that she's needs it.

I shall be more careful to keep the posts in the future...

As a side note....
I am gay, but I was raised in the Christian faith. It has been a life long struggle for me. Decades of self-loathing, fear, and FRUITLESS prayer.

I am at a point in my life now where I'm really, genuinely searching for truth. I have been rejected by Christians and church bodies. I have been rejected by friends and family. All this while still a virgin! Damn...I mean, I hadn't even acted on any homosexual desire before Christians were casting me away.

So you can imagine how it galls to read comments by people who, by and large, have never had to endure the likes of what I have. Maybe you can get over your own arrogance and try to reach out PAST what others are saying, and be a witness to your faith.

And for the record, I know that Kathy never said "God hates fags". I was quoting Shirley Phelps. HOWEVER. As representatives of Christ on earth, so many of the Christians I have encountered have done a pretty good job of demonstrating that God does, in fact, hate fags.

Wow.
That was so hateful. I actually thought I asked some pretty pertinent questions.

Ghandi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Amen, brother. And I'm so sad that my parents have to share the label "Christian" with people like you.

Der Iron,Mellers n scoot, quit your lyin
scooter wrote:

"Der Iron, and Mellers I can see you 2 and probably many others are frustrated at MRS V, Kathy etc.. when they give you thier religious opinion,,,, Take it for what its a worth a religious opinion..."

And I'll take you for what you are worth. A LIAR.
Don't sit around lazily basking in some feigned self righteous attitude (I mean a liberal self righteousnesses is THE worst, there's NOthing of God's will in it. Hence NO clarity, honesty, or fairness..)

Get off Kathy's back. SO cowardly of you. She has done NOTHING to speak against anyone here, except for God's will in some poems.

You are a liar when you say what I have said is my "opinion", because, except for my views on Mr. KMC and his show, what I have shared is virtually ALL God's views from the BIBLE and NOT *my* opinion..

So get real..

As for der iron chef and Mellers, advocating 'gays' and lies, he/she is no better..

Slandering poor Kathy here, who never said:
"God hates fags"..

You people ARE shameful..

Except for slacker, who has ACTUALLY used his intelligence to ask HONEST questions, that ARE respectful, I have lost some respect for almost every last one of you..who have cut down, Kevin, me, others and slandered us, and Kathy here..

You DON"T speak for us..So STOP TRYING..

And when you quit, make sure you eliminate LIES AND SLANDERS from your communiques and verbal diet..

I understand that will, virtually, shut most of you up..

But, yes, we have fantasies..

Someone mentioned fantasies here..

As for Jim's comments..I am assuming he is a Christian..

When Christ came He came to break the Mosaic pattern of leaning into legalism, religion, ritualism and the law.

Christ HAD to come for the Jews and Gentiles as a sacrifice Lamb. Hence the Blood sacrifice..

It was to fulfill prophecy..

If Jim shared all this good stuff about the Lord..

I give him thanks, and full credit..

The BEST we can do to help fight lies like those spoken here and misconceptions and slanders and such evil..is to stick together as Christians, or at least think well enough of each other to forgive and think the best and pray for each other..

I am now praying for ca, Lucifer, Slacker and a few others..I don't think they came here to lie..I think they came with sincere questions and sharings and contributions, despite how we may not agree. So, I think they have been genuine, amongst those who have no professing faith.

Must go..Too much time spent here!

:O)





Respectfully, to MrsV
"Could he be more kind and more Christlike in his communique, if NOT for the content of his words? Surely. And so could Ann Coulter too. I think, in one sense, they almost make up for these sins and weaknesses, BECAUSE they have so truly spoken for Right vs Wrong, and because they have often so valiantly, even to perhaps their own peril, advocated loudly and proudly for genuine faith, and the cause of good and right, and Truth."

Oh no. My mother's soul would burst from her body and speed up to Heaven is she read this! How on earth is it okay to be mean, just because your heart is in it, or because the message is valiant and true? It's so unbiblical!! It's unreal! It's shooting yourself in the foot! It's a self-defeating and hypocritical method that is SO obvious to me. You know, it's like saying, "Don't steal!" while you have your hand in someone else's purse.

Seriously, I'm so stumped.

Scooter
I see your point, and I've been asked this before. Biblically speaking, beastiality was punishable by death (Exodus 22:19). Pedophilia isn't mentioned in the Bible, to my knowledge.

So here's what I'm getting:

1) Homosexuality is wrong.
2) Beastiality is punishable by death.
3) Pedophilia isn't mentioned...so...uhh...

What I mean to say is, if you're judging by the Bible's standards, then fine. You can believe I'm a horrible pervert. You can, in clean conscience, kill someone who engages in beastiality. However, the pedophiles are good to go.

I just don't get how the Bible is a moral compass for sexuality. Didn't Lot have sex with his two daughters? Didn't the Kings of Israel have hundreds of wives and hundreds more concubines (aka-ho's on the side). Wasn't incest RAMPANT? I don't get it.

Two words, scooter
"Slippery slope."

Argue the point, not the point that might be argued in the future.

On KMC, the baby & the bath. Sorry, long
"Kathy...hmm. Is your real name, by any chance, Shirley Phelps? You bring that same maniacal tone to everything you say! God hates fags! So seriously, I want to ask all the bonafide Christians here: do you really think McCullough is doing you all a favor?! Do you really think this sort of dialogue is representing your Christ? Why on EARTH would I want to be a Christian after reading this?! It's insane! It's the worst delivery of the Great Commission that I HAVE. EVER. SEEN!"


'Tone' is a HIGHLY subjective word toe be used of another. Since it so highly subjective, I think its use should be stricken from the replies here. As the use of it is never actually factual, and almost always used, as you have, in some form of slander, or a false accusation.

As for Mr. McCullough's column. I have shared myself, with some commenters here, that my own personal experience with directly communicating with Mr. McCullough has been one that had been, at times, hurtful, confusing, and sometimes kind of limiting.

I say hurtful, because, on a number of occasions, over the course of me sending my views and opinions to his show, over four years, I found myself caught in replies from this author where I was perpetually misunderstood, often lambasted, and many times my character was impugned.

Needless to say, the false accusations on his part were extremely painful, and sort of confusing, because, basically, they just didn't end. They were limiting, because the slew of misjudgments about me placed me in a box of another's making, that were bound by perceptions, and not Truth. So, this was, essentially, making a one dimension character of me. And NOT kindly, I've got to say.

Since I won't be emailing him about this, suffice to say, this was about a few years, on and off, of being misunderstood, with a period of making a peace. And then, most recently, my character being impugned by him again.

It wouldn't have been so bad, except I was a fan who was listening to and supporting him and his show, almost daily. Many times I shared we were praying for him and his kin. And, generally speaking, except for a few constructive critiques, which he requested, our comments to him were ones of good will.

We are not Liberals, or even Moderates, by any means. So there really wasn't a lot of leg to stand on for all the nasty Hell I caught. But you folks keep knocking the guy, so enough said.

I understand that this brother is not exactly the
most kind person, when it comes to his expressions, and sometimes how he comes across in what he has to say. I've said that I forgive his offenses, so I don't plan on airing them past this day's column again.

This is not to say that sinful ways don't have consequences, because all this has made me much more reluctant to read his columns as much-and I hadn't been, write him at all, or call his show with a comment for a long time, if, maybe ever again.

I WILL say this for him though.

The reason I keep coming back to, occasionally, read this column and hear what is said, is because, despite this harsh and sometimes unfair way of speaking in blacks and whites that has hurt others-I KNOW..it has hurt ME..I still feel Mr. McCullough's heart is in it..and that by and large what he is sharing is based on 100% Biblical fact, and as stated, lines up 100% with God's Will for Christians and men, and Biblical truth.

Can he be harsh with it? Is he at times condescending, misjudging of others, and excluding? Absolutely! I often felt in my communications to him that more than one person was sitting there misjudging me..And I am not a masochist, nor a martyr.

It's just that, for the life of me, I have not heard one other Conservative or Christian broadcaster, outside of Pastors preaching and sharing God's views, who has had a local show and column, which addresses these concerns daily, for the people in the tri state area, as Mr. McCullough has with his show, column and news.

Nationally? Of course, there are others. Some speakers and authors who are greatly gifted, more kind, perhaps, and very good. Michael Medved, Albert Mohler, and Dennie Praeger, to name a few.
But they don't live in our backyard.

And there really is no one else in our tri state area that has been brave or honest enough to stare down these issues with any kind of moral clarity, conviction, or Biblical truth as a consistent standard. At least, I mean, not on tv or the radio. Not in a large public forum, or an accessible way on the air..

I understand he's not perfect. Nor is anyone else
here. I probably should not have aired my hurt about him. I probably should have just given to the Lord and not said anything. I am not out for revenge. I just understand a little bit of the perspective of some of you.

I think, more than anything, Mr. McCullough is doing his work AS an act of loved. And I believe his heart is in it. No one else I have seen or heard has so accurately analyzed and dissected the motives of Democrats, Liberals, and most news makers, or public figures with such clear-thinking and such, apparent, ease.

Could he be more kind and more Christlike in his communique, if NOT for the content of his words? Surely. And so could Ann Coulter too. I think, in one sense, they almost make up for these sins and weaknesses, BECAUSE they have so truly spoken for Right vs Wrong, and because they have often so valiantly, even to perhaps their own peril, advocated loudly and proudly for genuine faith, and the cause of good and right, and Truth.

I was hard for me to put this all in a word that made sense and was clear for all of you. I can only speak for my family, and myself. The message is just so much more important to me though, than whether *I* am misjudged, maligned or disliked. Loved, or hated..

The message is such an important thing! The message is the baby, and KMC is the conduit.
Maybe?:^) Why throw out the baby..when what's said is SUCH an important thing?

Sorry so long..Yeesh, I must work on this..

I've GOT to get to saying these things in fewer words :^(










:)
BRILLIANT!

Der Iron, and Mellers
I can see you 2 and probably many others are frustrated at MRS V, Kathy etc.. when they give you thier religious opinion,,,, Take it for what its a worth a religious opinion...

I have other questions for you that are not of the personal opinion however..

As Judges have ruled Gay Rights are considered Human rights and laws are changed in this country (sodomy, marriage, adoption etc) to give this community equal protection..

Why cannot Judges rule Pedo or Bestial Rights are also Human rights and laws are to be changed (age of consent, species of consent etc..) to also give this community equal protection..??

Hopefully,, you will come to the conclusion that the process whereby the Gay community is gaining their RIGHTS (thru the Judicial and not the Legislative) is "morally perverse".
Or is it up to our Judges to decide who has RIGHTS, what they are, and you and I must live with them even if we don't agree. (pedo's and bestials)

Don't know, maybe you think Pedo's and Bestials are discriminated against too?

Good luck with that, slacker...
They are impervious.

But if you REALLY want to believe a fairy tale, try this at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ

Blessed be Hank!

Jim, nice recitation of the fantasy
That is a nice fairy tale. I assume you went to the trouble to post it because you believe it is actually true, however, and not a fairy tale.

I'll assume you believe its true on the basis of the standard circular reasoning most people who take the bible literally use: without physical evidence you believe it because its based on the bible. You believe the bible is literally true because the bible is the word of "god". You believe the bible is the word of "god" because the bible says it is the word of "god".

Anyway, regardless of how you come to believe the story you wrote in your post I am curious as to how you answer some obvious questions that need to be answered before anyone could accept this story. Note that I put words like "god" and "perfect" in these questions in quotes, not to be insulting but to signal that they are words for which we may not completely agree on the definition.

Here are some questions from an admittedly simple agnostic:

Why would a perfect "god" demand that people slaughter innocent animals for salvation before Jesus was sacrificed? Did he have something against the animals? What purpose did it serve "god" to have some innocent animal die or be punished for a person who committed a sin?

Wouldn't a perfect "god" think that demanding a person slaughter innocent animals over and over to "atone" for their sins was just committing another one: animal cruelty

If the old paradigm of torturing and killing animals to atone for sins was working for "god" for thousands of years why did "god" decide to ask his own "son" to get born as Jesus to be tortured death as the "last sacrifice?" What changed all of a sudden? We certainly weren't running out of animals at the time. Did it suddenly occur to the perfect "god" that torturing and killing innocent animals was a sin too?

Regardless of what moved "god" to decide to have his "son" incarnate as a human and to be tortured to death did the fact he changed his mind about the mechanism of salvation mean he, the "perfect" being had made a mistake, or had created an imperfect salvation mechanism, and was now correcting it?

If "god" really is "perfect" why would he create imperfect beings in the first place? Is it unintentional? That would mean he makes mistakes and is not really perfect. Or did he create imperfect beings on purpose knowing that he cannot let into his "perfect heaven" without requiring innocent animals to get slaughtered or his own "son" to be tortured to death? That doesn't seem like a very good plan. To me that means either his intentions were not "perfect" or his execution of them was flawed.

If you think that men and women were actually perfect at some point in time - such as the garden of Eden - but lost this perfection by eating "forbidden fruit" how could this happen? Why would a perfect woman "Eve", listen to the devil instead of god? Why would a perfect man, "Adam" listen to his corrupted wife instead of obeying the orders he knew "god" had given him?

Obviously "Adam" and "Eve" were never perfect. But if they weren't "perfect" then "god" would know this. If he knew this, then why would he put the "forbidden fruit" in the garden, give them "fee will" to choose to eat it or not, then allow the devil (with all his vast power) in to tempt poor imperfect Eve in the first place. Doesn't seem very smart for a "perfect" god. Even I could foresee that's not a very good plan unless "god" wanted the inevitable "fall" of man to happen. But if "god" can't even make and execute a simple plan how can he be "perfect"?


jim..what are you?
jim wrote:

"And "flash" for the religious nutz, while the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong (yes it does so spare us the lengthy replies vis-a-vis the topic), Jesus was quite clear on the fact that we are to love Him first and our neighbor as ourselves. What does that mean? That we are to treat everyone with respect. That we are to treat ourselves with respect."

So you are calling those here who claim Christ as their Saviour as "religious nutz".

And you want to go on and on about Jesus Christ?!

Here's a newsflash for YOU mr Jim.

When Jesus urged us to love one another, telling others God's TRUTH was never mutually exclusive with expressing that love.

I could not sit to read all you wrote..
Because I found the 'nutz' comment pretty off putting, and kind of confusing.

Especially considering we are exhorted by Jesus to not just love our fellow human beings-with part of that expression to share with them the Truth in love-we are ALSO to extend that love in a sincere and particularly caring way when it comes to the body of Christ.

In short, true Christians know they are not doing God's will, nor His best, by name calling other Christians, or making a mockery of them, or the family of faith.

I am sorry, for whatever you said, I cannot sit and read with any genuine interest a person who insults other Christians as he tries to talk about God..

It's rude..unfair..not Biblical..and just plain weird..

Madness...
MrsV writes: "There is nothing I have done, or said, here that exhibits 'bigotry', unless it is perceived as such by the minds and hearts who shun God."

Shun who?

All this rant shows is (a) your capacity for self-deception, and (b) the frightening depth of that deception.

What exactly do you call this?

"I think it bears repeating, because homosexuality is a state that has its name based on immorality and perversion..whereas heterosexuality is not in itself perverted at all..and only is corrupted when its expression is out of God's plan. But on its own it does not represent any diversion from the norm. This is a very important point, as it clearly shows that homosexuality cannot be compared or paralleled to heterosexuality, because one is a disgrace and one is a natural state of being. They are simply not equal, not even close."

Shocking.

Hah!
So, my first reaction was anger. To the article, to the comments, to the fact that my apartment is SO hot today.

But seriously, this is some funny sh*t. God, hell and hairy asses, all in one column!

Kathy...hmm. Is your real name, by any chance, Shirley Phelps? You bring that same maniacal tone to everything you say! God hates fags!

So seriously, I want to ask all the bonafide Christians here: do you really think McCullough is doing you all a favor?! Do you really think this sort of dialogue is representing your Christ? Why on EARTH would I want to be a Christian after reading this?! It's insane! It's the worst delivery of the Great Commission that I HAVE. EVER. SEEN!

And my parents are missionaries. So I've seen it.

Seriously...put all these previous arguments aside and consider that. It's a fine line between speaking truth and discrediting yourself. Christ himself spoke most harshly to the believers of his day, and showed love and compassion to the "lost".

I dare some of you to consider this honestly and answer my questions.

huh?
Democrats pandering to whomever can get them elected without regard for their actual belief system(s) or world view? I didn't know that was news. Didn't everyone know that already??

And "flash" for the religious nutz, while the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong (yes it does so spare us the lengthy replies vis-a-vis the topic), Jesus was quite clear on the fact that we are to love Him first and our neighbor as ourselves.

What does that mean? That we are to treat everyone with respect. That we are to treat ourselves with respect.

The unfortunate part is that in their haste to re-orient society, the liberals forget that God may be loving but He is also just.

This means that if one wishes to lay claim to the gift of God (ie, eternal life), one must be prepared to follow the rules God laid out.

Please don't bother hauling out the Old Testament. For the ignorant amongst us, the Old Testament is a HISTORY book to show the Jews and Arabs where they came from. Unfortunately these two races didn't accept the New Testament so they still shed blood and waste resources on a regular basis.

Those who have embraced the New Testament realize that Jesus merely summarized the 10 commandments in the two commandments He postulated above. If you can follow the two, you automatically obey the ten. As is obvious, no mere human can.

Remember that God is just? That means that NO ONE is good enough to enter into eternal life with Him. He is perfect and can abide no imperfection in His home. So how does that work!?!

There is a method by which the unworthy can enter in to heaven: atonement for sin*. In the Old Testament it was via periodic slaughter of an innocent animal coupled to the confession of sin to a priest. Imagine having that system today!

Jesus, being the Son of God, agreed to be the last sacrificial lamb, if you will.

We fail before Satan because he knows our sin; the little white lie we told grandma, the pencil we stole from the teacher in 3rd grade, etc., etc.. He causes us to fail at opportune moments by reminding us just how pitiful we are.

Jesus, being perfect, had the power to defeat Satan because there was nothing Satan could do to Jesus or remind him of which would cause Jesus to doubt himself. He knew. He knew who he was. He knew who had the power. He knew who was going to win that little skirmish and He knows who is going to win in the end.

So Jesus took on the burden of all our sins. Sure it was rigged. He knew he would win. So did Satan. So why would Satan even take Him on?

Easy. Us. Humans. We are the ultimate prize. Ever wonder why you're here? Because God created you. [evolutionists please don't bother] Why would the most powerful being before the universe even existed want to do that?

Not so easy. What is the most basic need for humans (past eating and sleeping perhaps)? To be needed. To be loved. Where do you think we got that? In whose image are we made?

God was surrounded by angels. He could make armies of them in a blink. What is wrong with angels? They're autonomous. They neither love nor hate. They just deliver messages and provide choral background, right? Well, no one really knows although there are lots of texts on the subject. But this we know, they can be jealous and they can hate. Because this is how Satan came to be: jealousy of God, followed by banishment from perfection (ie, Heaven), culminating in total and absolute hatred of God.

Now, if you hated God, what would do to get His goat? How about stealing the most precious thing he loves? Oh yeah. That would do it. How about if you could steal billions of them? Oh yeah. Now we're talking.

We're talking about humans. As we said, we are the Prize. We were created so that we could CHOOSE to love God. We are UNIQUE in all of creation in that we KNOW of God and we can CHOOSE to love Him. No other creation can do that. Not the angels. None.

So God must really love us and want us to come to live with Him. Which still requires perfection which, unfortunately we don't possess in general.

Enter stage right, Jesus who offers to act as the bridge between us and His Father by taking on our sin (a deal with Dad so to speak) and then dying to defeat Satan (a deal with Dad again) and finally returning to tell us, the humans, about a new deal: the price of perfection is paid but we can only cash in the ticket if we believe that Jesus has paid for it (a deal with humans).

We choose. We can accept Jesus' gift and plan on spending eternity with He and His Father. Or we can choose to reject the gift Jesus offers in the hope that this life is all there is and we just become fertilizer in the end. [How hopeless is that!]

Given the message from the liberal left these past 4 decades, no wonder our youth today are so despondent; they see no future and have no hope. So sad. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw once: If you are living like there is no God ... you had better be right!

It is that simple.

It is so simple that a child comprehends it almost instantly while the adults are confounded by it.

And so adults wander off and try to fix that inner turmoil themselves; with things or drugs or faster cars or even new religions. Anything to calm that still small voice and fill that void they know needs filling.

Good luck, my fellow humans. Nothing has been easy since the Garden of Eden. No one says it will any easier now. But at least with Christ, you're not in it alone any more.
_ _ _ _ _ _

*sin - this is one point of divergence if I have been correctly informed. The non-Islamic religious world believes that we are all born sinful as a result of the original sin (Eve vs. the Serpent) and therefore are in need of salvation. Indeed, any decent psychologist will admit that everyone has an internal need for some higher power; they just don't all agree on what form that higher power takes. However. Mohammad recognized that it would be very useful to growing his new religion if one of the basic tenants included something that every man wants to hear: that we're perfect. We're born perfect and we remain perfect as long as we are not defiled or confused by others who do not believe as we do (ie, they have to believe or go away). Pretty smart for a 20-something.

Please Read This..
MellorSJ2 wrote:

"I don't know which is worse...The blind illiterate rantings of Kathy or the semi-reasoned xian bigotry (in English!) of MrsV.
Look what your god has done to you..."

There is nothing I have done, or said, here that exhibits 'bigotry', unless it is perceived as such by the minds and hearts who shun God. Those who label my sharing with you of God's Truth about these issues as 'bigotry', do not call on Christ as a Divine and redeeming being, and are bound to falling into prejudiced type liberal rhetoric, when speaking about other people.

Even some here, who do not have faith or call Christ Lord, are learning the higher route, which is God's way, of disagreeing and supporting their
own points, without the dishonest measures of libel, slander and name calling. When you post on here again, you really should take a tip..

I disagree with the sin of expressions of homosexuality. For me, and my Lord, they are a road to death, and an abomination. Your words for that is to call me a 'bigot'. But how bigoted is it to slander me, and my Christian sisters and brothers who don't agree with you, in response to what we have to say?

I wish I could as easily express my poems and free verse as my Christian sister Kathy has done here. I wish I could speak even more bravely and boldly as my brother in Christ, Kevin McCullough!

You can slander us and call us names all you like..'Bigot', 'hate-r', 'judgmental', 'fanatic', 'extremist'..You have a right to call us every untrue slander and lie in the New York Times dictionary and play book.

And, while there is still free speech for Christians and Conservatives on the Internet, and
in this nation, I still have the blessed ability to write you back and say your words are slanderous lies too.


LOOK what my God has done for me.

Will you?

HE has delivered me out of a life of worldly lies and confusion.

Where man was the sum of all things, and never a faithful man was to be found.

HE redeemed my mind to a sane place, where peace, and righteousness and decency was the order of the day.

He delivered me from the dominant oppression of my sins!

HE revived my will for the good. HE gave me much more of a conscience.

He knocked down my hard will and softened my prideful hard heart.

HE brought me back from lying mindsets of worldly men, and potentially deadly ways of living, and lusts.

HE picked me up, had mercy on MY soul, and sought me when I lost all strength, and could do not one good thing for anyone, not even myself.

HE gave me back a calm in my thoughts and spirit.

HE taught me, once more, about the Golden Rule and Right and Wrong.

HE cleansed me and guided me.

HE protected and provided me with amazing loved ones. And all other good gifts..

HE has been kind enough to keep us on the right path.

He has helped us strive for what's right, and want
to be good, do right.

HE has loved me, though I shunned Him.

HE has been a faithful and merciful devoted friend.

HE has never left me or forsaken me.

He has given me countless healings, and more.

I will love Jesus Christ and my Father til the end.


Yes MellorSJ2..

Just LOOK what my God has done for me!

Just LOOK at what HE has done for all of us..

And even, you..

If you only knew..











I don't know which is worse...
The blind illiterate rantings of Kathy or the semi-reasoned xian bigotry (in English!) of MrsV.

Look what your god has done to you....

Thanks, Mrs. V
I think your last post was addressed to me and I understand what you say and appreciate it.

I will admit I have strayed myself over the boundary of satire, which I sometimes use in my posts in an attempt to keep them interesting, into name calling. Especially in my earlier days on TH. You fairly pointed that out in the past. In credit to you and a couple of others who have pointed this out to me, I think my more recent posts on this and other topics are more "to the point" and less purely inflammatory, though I sometimes stray.

You and I deeply disagree on this and other topics, irreconcilably I believe, I understand your beliefs are sincere and respect them. For what its worth, if that were not the case - or I did not think you were a spokeswoman for your point of view - I would never have made the effort to argue with you. Discussion with people who don't agree with me is my attempt to make my point of view available and thought about by others.

Honest and rigorous debate is the best way we "mere" humans have devised in all the hundreds of thousands of years we have walked this planet to understand each other's perceptions of reality and resolve our differences peacefully. Much of the time, since life is not always a zero sum game both parties in the debate gain more than they lose. Even, or perhaps especially, when they practice the fine art of compromise on issues about which they have very strong feelings and opinions. When that happens you could say ey are "blessed."

In any case, thank you again for your post, and best wishes.

Peace.