9th Circuit Court Removes Crosses from Korea Memorial

Brad O'Leary

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So I have a suggestion for anyone who is offended by this recent swipe at our religious freedom. Exercise your First Amendment right and send ACLU President Susan Herman a simple email message. Put a “+” symbol in the subject line and send it to sherman@aclu.org. Let her know how you feel about her organization’s hatred for your beliefs and America’s heritage. Send this to your friends and let’s aim to erect thousands of e-memorials in Ms. Herman’s inbox. Also, be sure to copy me in your email to Ms. Herman at bradoleary11@gmail.com and I’ll report back later on how many “crosses” she receives.

Tags: Congress , Government Spending , Supreme Court , California , Christianity , Eric Holder , Military , Veterans , Faith , First Amendment , Prayer , U.S. Military , ACLU , Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals , WHO , Government , D-Day , Unconstitutional , american legion , Endorsement , Email , Success

Brad O'Leary

Brad O'Leary

Brad O’Leary serves as chairman of The PM Group and Publisher of The O’Leary Report. He is a bestselling author of 15 books and has produced numerous television specials and documentaries.

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Harold216 Wrote: Jan 30, 2011 9:14 AM

What better symbol than the Christian cross upon which Jesus sacrificed His life; to memorialize those of our brave service men and women who 'sacrficed their lives' in the defense of freedom. None except atheists can deny that the symbolism thus represented trumps any implication that the government is endorsing Christianity.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 08, 2011 5:07 AM

I wish that the Atheist would stop would stop trying to destroy what others have built. If they don't like it they can go out and build their own places or monuments.

They can't!

Atheism is about tearing down other people and what they built. Tearing down what others believe because they don't believe in anything themselves. They have sad and empty lives void of any meaning.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:20 PM

Obelisks were used to worship the sun god Ra in ancient Egypt. Take down the Washington monument! Where is the ACLU when you need them?

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Hemly Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 5:56 PM

Maybe we could add a horizontal arch to the Washington Memorial to make it a giant cross. The obelisk is weird cause it's Egyptian!

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Kimbery Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 6:22 PM

Something tells me you'd just find something else to whine about.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:09 PM

I have always wondered why they chose an obelisk for a memorial to Washington.

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Brian378 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 3:08 PM

I think we should put crosses on their graves because "it projects a Government endorsement of atheism." :P

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:53 PM

"Christianity is part of the common law"
James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:53 PM

"Christianity is part of the common law"
James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:47 PM

Munck shall we get rid of the Liberty bell? It quotes the Bible, the inscription reads:
“ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” Which is Leviticus 25:10.

Or how about shutting down the Supreme Court?? It displays (among other art) Moses holding the ten commandments - gasp!

Or how about the Washington Monument? Laus Deo must offend atheists right?

Only the insane could possibly be offended by another persons religion. Get over symbolism -- it's everywhere. And never in the history of man has a symbol sprang to life and forced the establishment of a religion.

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:38 PM

Try as you may liberals -- you will not erase history as long as we have TEA minded people.

Lack of religion is why we have the current scum-bags in office. No religion, and no consequences, have caused a slew of moral degenerates calling themselves politicians.

Our founders warned us of this.

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:16 AM

Crosses are traditionally a symbol of respect and honor of fallen USA troops- why must the left make everything political?

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:10 PM

"Crosses are traditionally a symbol of respect and honor of fallen USA troops"

Really? All those crosses you see all over Vatican City are about American troops? Does the Pope know this? In what way does a cross honor a fallen Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist American soldier?

The Soledad cross was NOT about veterans; it was erected and stood for 35 years as a token of Easter, with no mention whatsoever of veterans or wars, until some less-than-truthful christians needed an excuse to get around the First Amendment ban on promotion of a religion by the government.

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:27 PM

Munck since when is the Vatican in the USA?

Stop twisting what I said. My point again:

In the ****USA**** military the cross has been used as a sign of virtue honor and respect - from military graves, to pre-battle prayers to the prestigious award - the Military cross.

America was founded by CHRISTIANS. Save your breath about trying to dispute this anyone who has OBJECTIVELY read the founders own words understand while they were adamantly against federal ESTABLISHED religion they obviously were not against religion display on public or federal lands. Just take a walk around DC to see how wrong you liberals are about that.

Or just go see the SOLEDAD CROSS!

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 5:21 PM

"In the ****USA**** military the cross has been used as a sign of virtue honor and respect"

It has also been used as a sign of racism, terrorism, and intimidation, for example by the KKK.

"America was founded by CHRISTIANS."

America was founded by SLAVEHOLDERS. Same folks, in fact. Fortunately for them, christianity is fine with people owning other people. We've rejected the founder's belief in slavery; why shouldn't we reject their belief in christianity?

"anyone who has OBJECTIVELY read the founders own words understand while they were adamantly against federal ESTABLISHED religion they obviously were not against religion display on public or federal lands."

That's not what the Supreme Court has said, in a number of rulings. ...

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 08, 2011 4:04 AM

Robert you are so deluded. Show me where in the Constitution that says you can't promote a religion.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 08, 2011 4:06 AM

Placing a Cross on public land is not promoting a religion.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 08, 2011 4:09 AM

Robert G Munck Wrote:
"the prestigious award - the Military cross."

Just for starters, that's a British award. We do have various medals with "cross" in their name -- Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross, etc. but

IT'S NOT THE SAME CROSS.

Go look at a picture. Military crosses have all four arms the same length; the christian cross has the top vertical arm shorter than the two horizontals and the bottom vertical longer than them. It imitates the shape of a person with arms outstretched, for obvious reasons."

Yes it is. The various military awards that are crosses are based on the Christian Cross.

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 09, 2011 10:20 AM

"Show me where in the Constitution that says you can't promote a religion."

The first amendment. This is the long-standing opinion of the United States Supreme Court.

"The various military awards that are crosses are based on the Christian Cross."

Nonsense. A cross with four equal-length arms is called a "Greek cross." It's found in Greek and earlier cultures dating from thousands and even tens of thousands of years before christianity.

Did you have any actual information as the basis of your claim, or is it just an expression of your prejudices?

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Harold216 Wrote: Jan 30, 2011 9:19 AM

I cannot speak to what symbol might be used to identify a fallen Muslim or Buddhist American soldier, probably because there aren't any. Fallen Jewish soldiers on the other hand, are symbolized with the Star of David.

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macthemadman Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:55 AM

ROBED SCUMBAGS. May they get what they deserve.

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megan60 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:53 AM

I don't doubt for a minute that this comment will irritate more than a few folks and lead many others to post a number of vitriol-laden diatribes, but it is the way I feel, so .... in the for what it's worth column, I submit this: There aren't any atheists in a foxhole. As a former Marine, I believe that in my heart.

Regardless of what a servicemember's religion or belief system may be, men and women in combat believe in something. Period. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but I'll stereotype here and say that combat and belief in a higher power tend to meet up when rounds are coming down range. What the belief is, is moot. Ultimately, the cross, in an of itself, should not represent one religion over another in...

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Anonymous10715 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:15 AM

Sorry Donjindra, but you got it wrong. The monument IS about honoring troops. Putting a cross on a memorial proves what? That the fallen were mostly christians? That they were honored according to widespread traditions in the western world?
Judeo-christian heritage is not "bogus" as you call it, the latest +2000 years of history can tell you. I would never say Hindi heritage is bogus, but just as with Judeo-Christian heritage, there are places and countries where it is mainstream or majority, and places where it is not. If you happen to be a minority, you should be happy enough your presence is tolerated and you are not being actively discriminated against (as is the case in many countries of the world).
BTW, I am a member minority...

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:52 AM

No, I've gotten it right. There is no such thing as a "Judeo-christian heritage ." Nobody can define it in any real way. Were wars fought over the differences that separated the supposed "it"? Yes. Is a liberal part of it? Yes. Was Hitler part of it? Yes. Was Marx part of it? Yes. Besides, Christianity was a de facto rejection of Judaism and the Enlightenment was a de facto rejection of Christianity.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 9:03 AM

"Christianity was a de facto rejection of Judaism" ??? You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The Old Testament is the Torah.

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Anonymous10715 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:12 AM

dear dojindra

the fact that the limits are broad and unclear does not mean it does not exist. cherry picking your examples hardly makes a balanced argument. you could as easily point out many elements from other cultures that are clearly NOT judeo-christian, eg hindi, buddhist, muslim, shinto, etc... we could write books about it, but keeping it simple, you can see the differences between cultural heritages in many aspects of life including, but not limited to:
- religious practices and rituals (catholic mass, ramadan, bar mitzvah, pooja)
- arts
- architecture (are there not differences between cathedrals, mosques and buddhist temples?)
- political organization (democracy, caliphate, tribe, etc...)
- societal organization (eg role of...

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Cambermeister Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:35 AM

Donjindra, was Barack Obama wrong when he had ministers
pray on government facilities within a governmental proceeding.
Was his inauguration inappropriate?

Was Nancy Pelosi wrong to when she forced government
workers to listen to a prayer on hundreds of mornings?

Today, Harry Reid insisted a prayer to be read before hundreds of government
workers. Is he out of line in doing so on government property?

Wow Hemly, how did you acquire such fantastic intellect? How did your ability to
interpret the law become superior to that of all branches of our government?

The Supreme Court chamber and building has dozens of 'God' references
chiseled into stone on Federal Government property. Do you want these removed?

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Cambermeister Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:40 AM

You've been honest when admitting there's no phrase even similar
to 'separation of church and state' in our governing documents.

Do you feel these practices mentioned above are wrong?
Do you think I'm out of line to ask one such as you, questions about
your position? Is it improper to highlight that folks like you cannot
clarify your position? Is it wrong to ask simple grammar school
questions for the express purpose of proving you cannot answer them?

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Cambermeister Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:40 AM

Donjindra, was Barack Obama wrong when he had ministers
pray on government facilities within a governmental proceeding.
Donjindra, was Barack Obama wrong when he had ministers
pray on government facilities within a governmental proceeding.
Was his inauguration inappropriate?

Was Nancy Pelosi wrong to when she forced government
workers to listen to a prayer on hundreds of mornings?

Today, Harry Reid insisted a prayer to be read before hundreds of government
workers. Is he out of line in doing so on government property?

Wow Hemly, how did you acquire such fantastic intellect? How did your ability to
interpret the law become superior to that of all branches of our government?

The Supreme Court chamber and building has dozens of...

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:20 PM

"The Old Testament is the Torah."

No it isn't. Jeez, don't you people know anything about anything other than your own set of superstitions?

The Torah is just one of the three parts of the Hebrew bible, consisting of the five books of Moses. The various christian cults don't agree on what exactly constitutes their old testament, but it's always different from and more than just the Hebrew bible, let alone just the Torah. Read a book. Take a course.

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:12 PM

It's not the book, it's how it is interpreted.

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:39 PM

"was Barack Obama wrong when he had ministers pray on government facilities within a governmental proceeding."

Yes, I think so, but not legally wrong..Individuals and ministers are allowed to pray. They are allowed to honor their gods, even on government property. They are not allowed to use the powers of the State to force us to honor their gods or evangelize for their gods. There are no criminal penalties for doing so, though. Nor should there be. So the courts can't take up.every single case of public officials who might overstep their bounds of propriety. Nor should they.

"The Supreme Court chamber and building has dozens of 'God' references
chiseled into stone on Federal Government property. Do you want these removed?"

That's...

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 10:48 PM

I've agreed the the words 'separation of church and state' are not in the Constitution but I agree with the Supreme Court that the concept is indeed in the Constitution.

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 11:08 PM

When talking about style and taste, of course there are differences between America and India. Those are superficial differences. I won't deny superficial differences among cultures. But those differences lead nowhere important. Did your so-called "Judeo-christian" heritage necessarily lead to a certain kind of architecture while the Hindu religion necessarily leads a different way? It would be foolish to make such a case. Neither Jesus nor Paul said a word about the best architecture.

So if you limit your "Judeo-christian" heritage to taste in architecture and art, I have no problem saying we have some cultural differences. But I deny these differences had anything to do with religion. In order for you to make that connection you must...

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wmou Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:02 AM

If the memorial was anything but a cross, it would be considered a national monument and anybody who would attempt to move it or deface it in any way would be charged with a federal crime. But since freedom of religion is all but gone in this country, a national monument honoring war veterans is considered offensive.
Instead of religious liberty, today the federal government dictates when, where and how religious expression is permitted. Our founders would rebel.

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Ted456 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:58 AM

Thank you, the other Ted_

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Ted456 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:58 AM

Thak you Jewish War Veterans and thank you ACLU.

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Cambermeister Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:00 AM

Ted, you appear ignorant. You've obviously never visited the memorial on Soledad.
Go there as I do. Learn something. You will never again post as an ignoramous.

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Hockey Mom Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:19 AM

Yes he will, it's in his blood so he can't help it.

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annfan6 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:52 AM

"This is certainly much to the chagrin of the anti-Christian ACLU."

You mean the Anti Christian Liberties Union.

It must be miserable to be an atheist - nothing better to do with your pathetic existence except to rail against the God you claim doesn' exist.

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:11 AM

I'll send the ACLU a thank-you for having the guts to defend our civil liberties against the theocrats. It's too bad it's come to this. I'm not personally offended by a cross in a public park honoring our troops as long as any organization of any faith is allowed similar opportunities in that park. But when conservative Christians use any cross anywhere to support a bogus "judeo-christian" heritage, it's time to put a stop to it. This is not about honoring troops. It's about laying a string of "evidence" that future generations of theocrats can point to as "proof" of their version of history. So it's mandatory that we non-Christians fight all of these little battles. We've ignored these petty battles for too long. We let believers...

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:16 AM

I just love the revisionist history that you Leftist are trying to push. Please show me proof that the founding fathers weren't Christians.

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Stephen145 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:18 AM

Does cutting a bible to shreds count?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:22 AM

Sorry, nope.

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Stephen145 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:24 AM

I see.

So xianity without "miracles," "prophecy," and "revelation" is still xianity is it?

So say you all?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:28 AM

Still not proof that our founding fathers weren't Christians.

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Stephen145 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:44 AM

Yet here we have one (Jefferson) who was not a xian.

Unless you are going to claim that someone who rejects "miracles," "prophecy," and "revelation" is still a xian.

Are you?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:46 AM

If Jefferson wasn't a Christian why did he end his personal correspondence "Yours in Christ"?

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Mark in CA Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:27 AM

First off, Stephen you are focussing on only ONE of the founding fathers. Secondly, Jefferson may have been a deist, however, his morality was still founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ. That and the beliefs of most of the other founding fathers highlight the importance of remembering that the Christian worldview is an essential and integral part of our national character. It ought not be legislated out of existence by any branch of government, let alone the judiciary, which branch shouldn't be legislating to begin with.

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Stephen145 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:44 AM

Mark in CA writes: "First off, Stephen you are focussing on only ONE of the founding fathers."

True. But there were others. The statement "Please show me proof that the founding fathers weren't Christians" does not, without further qualification, demand that I show that all the Founders were xians.

"Secondly, Jefferson may have been a deist, however, his morality was still founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Fair enough--on two counts. First, the "teachings" (as passed down in the xian texts, irrespective of their whether the carpenter actually said them), are largely codifications of established "truths," for example, prohibitions against murder. Second, we are all--like it or not--products of our culture and it is the...

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:50 AM

Stephen, I am just applying the Atheist argument by demanding proof. I an not making the claims you are. I an just demanding that you provide proof to back up your claims.

I also noticed you totally ignored my question concerning Jefferson's personal correspondence examples of which are in the national archives.

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Stephen145 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:56 AM

I have provided evidence that Jefferson was not a xian.

I did write a post that said that J was a product of his culture and that he was a politician too--meaning that he would be unlikely to inflame the undereducated.

Sometimes I get two posts for the price of one. Sometimes, it seems, I get none.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 3:03 AM

So you are claiming that he put that salutation in for purely political reasons?

Does that also explain why he quietly founded and funded 2 churches?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 3:18 AM

Stephen, there is more evidence that he was a Christian that there he isn't. That doesn't stop revisionist from using some of his writings as proof that he was a Atheist, and others that he was a Deist. Even if he was a Deist that still means he believed in god and respected religion.

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Stephen145 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 3:36 AM

Nonsense.

He refused, for example, to address the question of whether the carpenter was a god.

You have so far not addressed the question of whether one can be a xian if one rejects miracles, prophecy and revelation.

I remind you that Jefferson did reject this type of lunacy.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:31 AM

Please show me where he rejected them. I have read his writings questioning them.

If he did not accept Jesus then why did he invoke his name in his salutations?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:36 AM

Stephen, you also failed to explain why if Jefferson was against Christianity he founded and funded two churches?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:42 AM

Stephen, If you knew anything about Christianity you would know the Carpenter as you call him is NOT God and is never referred to as God.

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Donjindra Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 9:08 AM

I'm not a leftist. More than likely, you are. You're also ignorant if you think all our founding fathers were Christians, or that being a Christian necessarily leads to any specific behavior or meaningful belief.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 9:17 AM

Donjindra, if you had taken the time to read the personal biographies of the founding fathers you would know that an overwhelming majority of them were of one christian faith or another. They were Decans in their churches or Lay Preachers. That the wrote about God in their personal writings.

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annfan6 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:57 AM

Sure, your "civil liberties" were horribly threatened by something you didn't even know or care existed until you got a fax from your buddies at the Huffington Post or something like that.

"Why should we continue being tolerant....."

You ignoramus fool - you have NEVER BEEN TOLERANT. If you had there would have been no suit to begin with.

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Cambermeister Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:04 AM

Those that believe in nothing can't be offended by anything Donjindra.

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Anonymous10715 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 7:52 AM

Sorry, but you got it wrong. The monument IS about honoring troops. Putting a cross on a memorial proves what? That the fallen were mostly christians? That they were honored according to widespread traditions in the western world?
Judeo-christian heritage is not "bogus" as you call it, the latest +2000 years of history can tell you. I would never say Hindi heritage is bogus, but just as with Judeo-Christian heritage, there are places and countries where it is mainstream or majority, and places where it is not. If you happen to be a minority, you should be happy enough your presence is tolerated and you are not being actively discriminated against (as is the case in many countries of the world).
BTW, I am a member minority myself - being...

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 11:21 PM

I notice that Ted and his fellow Atheist concede that when they loose in court they resort to violence. The only thing he has done is denigrate the fact that vandalism is violence.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:45 PM

Ted you are intolerant.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:48 PM

Dorathy you have to remember that Atheist are the same as the KKK. They both want to burn crosses inorder to intimidate groups that they hate. Atheist just try to get the courts to do it for them first.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:53 PM

I always wondered if KKK were atheists. No Christian would hate the cross.

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Anonymous10715 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 8:00 AM

nope, as far as I know the KKK even rejected atheism.

Their symbolism of the burning cross has a different origin. They actually call it the "lighting" of the cross, the primary purpose of the fire is not to destroy the cross but to serve as a signal or beacon to gather their forces.

It comes from an alleged old tradition of scottish clans, they would light a cross to rally their forces to battle. BTW they used a St. Andrews Cross ( X ), the lighting of a latin cross ( + ) was a mistake originated from the film "Birth of a Nation" (1915), and it was later popularized with the Klan's revival in the 30's.

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annfan6 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:20 AM

That's the least of his worries.

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NOTW Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:25 PM

Maybe we should just subvert symbols of regligion into abstraction like this planned memorial? Then it will be acceptable by progressives.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/08/911-flight-93-m.html

You okay with this Monk?

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:59 PM

What's up with that? Who is designing that?

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 12:05 AM

Hey NOTW is this the same liberal Munck - the blast from the past - who is back? Or have I just missed his posts???
( Admittedly I've been to busy saving my business from BHO to be on TH, but do miss it.)

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L from CO Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:23 PM

100,000 crosses, or more maintained by the United States Government

http://www.google.com/images?q=arlington+national+cemetery&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=598&bih=426

Just try and remove them

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Jo312 Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 11:58 PM

Arlington is the first thing I thought of.

This is asinine.

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Ted456 Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:07 AM

Each burial stone in Arlignton represents the religion of the soldier, sailor, or marine buried beneath. There is no church or alter or 40 foot cross in Arlignton.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 1:24 AM

Ted do you even know the history of Arlington?

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:03 PM

L from Colorado is right. Congress can make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

There is no law against being offensive.

There is no law against crosses on public property.

Judges can not make laws. They can only rule on laws. No laws have been made. No laws are allowed to be made concerning the free exercise of religion. I can exercise my religion on public property. And no one can make a law against it.

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Ted_ Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:13 PM

Is this REALLY that hard to understand? This cross was erected and maintained by the government. It has nothing whatsoever to do with free exercise.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:10 PM

How did they maintain it?

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L from CO Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:19 PM

Dorthy
No one pays any attention to this wacko Ted.
You are right, there is no law and none can be made against a cross, prayer or anything to do with religion and speech,not from Congress anyway.

No law against the government itself in maintaining grounds where there are crosses.
Arlington National Cemetery proves that

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:21 PM

The Government did NOT erect or maintain anything.

The Money to build the cross and maintain it was all donated by veterans groups.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:22 PM

Is it really hard to understand that people ought to tell the truth.

Restoration of the Cross
Restoration of the cross.

In December 2008, a local San Diego painting contractor, Bay Cal Painting[28], donated time and material to restore the cross. "Workers used a 60-foot boom to power-wash the monument and re-weld parts of the steel interior. They used 25 gallons of paint on the cross and applied another four to eight gallons to the fence and green base around the cross. [Jim] Codde, [co-owner of Bay Cal painting], said the project, done by his company and several others, could have cost 40,000 dollars at market prices. That's excluding the maintenance the company has said it will handle for the next 20 years."[29]

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:24 PM

Good job Colorado L

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:33 PM

Since so many crosses are under assault it is easy to make a mistake.

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:35 PM

"The Money to build the cross and maintain it was all donated by veterans groups."

No, it was built in 1954 by local christian groups and called the "Mt. Soledad Easter Cross". No mention was made of veterans or it being a war memorial until 35 years later. The whole "veterans memorial" story is a lie, told by people who are supposedly christians and not supposed to lie.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:38 PM

My bad, wrong cross.

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Dale437 Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:38 PM

And??

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Dale437 Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:40 PM

And??

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:54 PM

Amen

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 9:51 PM

Why don't atheists spend a few dollars and build a memorial of lasting beauty?

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 9:56 PM

Instead of hating the art and philosophy of others. Why don't they do something positive for once?

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:01 PM

"Why don't atheists spend a few dollars and build a memorial of lasting beauty?"

Here's one of our best:

http://www.spacetelescope.org/static/archives/images/screen/heic0602a.jpg

A memorial to the 14-billion-year-old universe, created entirely by the laws of physics.

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:05 PM

Atheist did create that.

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Cambermeister Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:11 PM

Robert, are you one of those that thinks DNA was created by lightning hitting a puddle?

When Mary Shelly was writing her great novel, she too needed something to bring the
Monster to life. Gene Wilder delivered the classic Victor Von Frankenstein line the best:

"LIFE! DO YOU HEAR ME? GIVE MY CREATION... LIFE!"

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:22 PM

"are you one of those that thinks DNA was created by lightning hitting a puddle?"

No, I think it's more likely that Earth DNA originated in a garbage heap or latrine left by space-traveling beings who visited our planet about four billion years ago. Why do you ask?

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SpiritInterface Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:24 PM

Correction: Atheist didn't create that.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:26 PM

The Laws of physics were created by God. Merely discovered by man. The Laws of physics have nothing to do with atheism and I doubt if atheists paid for the memorial. Atheists should show us the beauty of meaninglessness.

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L from CO Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:27 PM

14 billion year old universe, hardy ha ha
Prove it

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:27 PM

Munck you really are without excuse. Romans 1. Now that we have telescopes that can show us such wonders we can see even more clearly the power of God. Creator of the Universe.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:34 PM

Love that movie. Frau Broogher. Neigh.

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:35 PM

That is a good picture of evil. Not accurate but good. And where did good come from?

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Robert G Munck Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:39 PM

"The Laws of physics were created by God. Merely discovered by man."

Who says? The christian bible doesn't say anything like that, nothing whatsoever. You'd think that would have been an important fact to record. The trouble is, of course, that the primitive tribesmen living in the desert who made up the bible had never heard of any "laws of physics."

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Dale437 Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:44 PM

No it wasn't.
If you're referring to the scientists and various and numerous people involved in the technologies that produced not only the ability to either launch a satellite or observe from a ground based planetarium and are implying that they are atheists, you're full of crap. If you don't know this..try to educate yourself.

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Dale437 Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 10:46 PM

Difficult time dealing with direct questions and feeling the need to deflect?
No one is surprised.

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afterthegoldrush Wrote: Jan 07, 2011 2:43 AM

There's a non-answer.

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Lon17 Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 11:43 PM

Are you offering up public land for the purpose? I'll bet you could get plenty of atheistic takers if you did? Or are you suggesting that atheists should get by without the government support that Christianity should get?

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Dorthy Wrote: Jan 06, 2011 9:48 PM

Christians are offended by atheism. How can offense possibly mean anything in a free society. I can not expect people not to offend me. They can not expect me to live without offending them. It is called tolerance. Only the intolerant would take down that cross. The government is not establishing a religion by allowing crosses on memorials. The government is establishing the religion of atheists by prohibiting crosses.

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