CPAC is for Lovers

Just wanted to say I read through the dialogue between you two idiots this morning, it's not improving my hangover at all (or maybe that's god punishing me for drinking Satan’s drink). This post has turned into a sermon. And just like on Sunday's I'm snoozing through it. Pointless bickering. You're going to keep going back and forth until I finally decide to launch my laptop through the window. You fanatics have turned what should be a personal relationship between you and your spirituality, into a narcissistic devotion to your own over-inflated egos.

Writing about liberal topics such as feminism, abortion, and homosexuality is fun and all, but I wish Ashley started writing about topics that are actually affecting the US. Um let...

(Continued from above)

Now I'm pretty sure that two guys engaging in sex these days are NOT idol worshipers. In fact, 99% of the time, it is a physical act of love; just like any hetero couples.

You keep saying i "haven't proved anything" yet once again you cannot manage to refute a single one of my arguments. Of course you're not wasting your time anymore on this. I've proven you wrong. You clearly indicated and shown your hatred towards homosexuals. When you die, and God doesn't let you into his kingdom, you can sit in an eternity in your "hell" and remember this post.

God gives us the right to choose right from wrong. But the thing is, homosexuality is not a choice. God created homosexuals. Scientific evidence proves that. Logic proves that.

Lol, oh now you want us to find a line where God approves homosexuality? Why, because you can't pull out a line where he condemns it that i can't refute? I've refuted all the lines you pulled out with clear interpretations proving that homosexuality was not the sin involved. And if you really read the Bible from front to back several times, you would understand this.

Lol, and you say "gay, waste of a good word that was once pleasant" Can you show your hatred towards homosexuals in a less obvious way? It's pretty clear you are twisting God's words...

I never said God doesn't love homosexuals. He loves all of His children. Stop putting words in my mouth. But He gives us free will to choose right from wrong.

"Your side", as you call it, has twisted facts and fabricated reasons for far too many things, but I won't be the one to have to answer for them. "Your side" will.

This thread has basically de-volved into a conversation between you and me.

Let me ask you one thing:

You accuse me, and others who believe homosexuality is wrong, of "cherry-picking" verses out of the Bible. Though there are many, many more quotes I could waste my time repeating here - why don't you proudly repeat ANY quote from the Bible that says that God APPROVES of homosexuality, sodomy,...

(Continued from post above)

Your side (the anti-gay side) cherry-picks lines, takes them out of context, and just says it's wrong with no evidence. They even added the word "homosexual," a word that wasn't even used this way till the 1800's. My side actually looks at and relates the historical times, provides plenty of evidence using the Bible itself, looks at the Bible as a whole, relates the context to other lines and passages, interprets them properly, doesn't distort their meaning, translates the Greek words properly and sees how they are used in various locations of the Bible to get a clear definition, and provides sufficient evidence. It's easy to see why the latter wins out.

Your last statements are simply...

Lol, the problem is, i support my facts with actual data, logic, links, and evidence. Your rebuttal is "no you are wrong", but notice how you failed to refute a single one of my links, arguments, or proofs.

As for people being wrong a long time, why would this be surprising for you? People were wrong for a long time about slavery, which was just recently abolished, and even then, it still exists today in some places. Women were treated as 2nd class citizens for majority of humankind, until this last century. Whats your point?

What is ludicrous is when you actually look at those verses you pulled out in context with the rest of the Bible, people like yourself still fail to see the reality, that homosexuality is not a sin....

No matter how many books you bring up supporting the homosexual lifestyle, it just ain't so.

And how someone could stuff your head with the idea that homosexuality in the Bible was only an abomination when it was part of idolatry, well . . . I repeat my case, people are always willing to twist facts to suit their personal agenda.

Isn't it AMAZING that homosexuality is only now being discovered to be a matter of pride, after centuries of hiding those perverted propensities? Guess people were wrong for a long time, huh! But then, we didn't have homosexual activists back through the centuries.

It is ludicrous to refuse to allow any religious arguments against homosexuality, as it is only religion and moral law that...

More books that prove that homosexuality is not a sin.

"In God's Image - Christian Witness to the Need For Gay/Lesbian Equality in the Eyes of the Church" By Robert Warren Cromey, Rector, Trinity Episcopal Church

"In The Courts Of The Lord" by James Ferry

This is the account of a gay priest and the incredible journey his life took.

"Stranger At The Gate" by Mel White

Mel While, one of the most respected evangelical writers coming out of the gay closet. Mel was ghost writer for many of the books and speeches of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham. This book details the authors attempts to hide from his natural homosexuality and his own journey as well as examine the religious rights agenda....

You got any other biblical passages we can examine? I've clearly proven that homosexuality is a sin. And yes, i take the whole Bible into account, not like yourself who pulls random verses out of context. I suggest you read up more in these links.

http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_prin t.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences .php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/

And check out...

All of the other biblical passages you took out of context, all reference Sodom. As i've proven, the sins of Sodom had nothing to do with two loving consenting adults.

It would help if you knew what the culture was like back then. In those times, male-male intercourse was a result of idol worship. Back then, it was a common practice of cult priests and priestesses to submit to sexual acts with either gender as part of the worship of their deities. Therefore, such acts were considered sinful and debauchery. It would be the same if it were hetero people involved in cultic sex, prostitution or sexual abuse of minors.

Now I'm pretty sure that two guys engaging in sex these days are NOT idol worshipers. In fact, 99% of the...

(Continued from above)

Second word, "arsenokoitai" or "arsenokoites" - it literally means, "males having sex." Early commentaries on I Corinthians related "arsenokoitai" to male temple prostitutes and to men having sex with boys. (Idolatrous prostitution and pedophilia are always wrong for those seeking to honor God.)

Homosexual relationships were known in the Greco-Roman culture of Paul's day. The Greek word commonly used in reference to adult male same sex partners was "arrenokoites." Paul did not use this word. Instead, he created his own, "arsenokoitai." If Paul had intended to condemn all adult male same sex partners, he would have used the common word for it.

Now onto the most laughable interpretation of yours. Corinthians. I'll show you why your interpretation is absurd.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word "homosexual" was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular...

Onto Leviticus now, since you mentioned that. Leviticus never said homosexuality was a sin.

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

Both of these verses refer to heterosexuals who participated in fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks, not homosexuals, there is absolutely no mention of sexual orientation or homosexuality. Also, the word abomination was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or dealing with any type idol...

Now let us examine the next bit you took out of context. Romans.

If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.

Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ's gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade...

Now let's examine the next passage you used. Romans.

If taken out of context, this passage seems to condemn homosexuals. However, when Romans 1:26-27 is considered within the context of Romans 1:16 through Romans 2:16, the Scriptures clearly present a different teaching.

Paul was writing to the church in Rome. The Roman church had become troubled by divisions related to spiritual pride. Paul was addressing the Christians in Rome and teaching about the pagans in Rome. After declaring the power of Christ's gospel to save all, he pointed out that the religious people of Rome had refused to even acknowledge GOD as one of their many gods. They had turned their backs on the one true living God and worshiped handmade idols....

Now let us address all the lines you took out of context from the Bible.

"There shall be no wh*** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

You are assuming that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality. That is false. Let us examine the proper interpretation of Sodom.

Homophobic Viewpoint: "Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality."
Scriptural Viewpoint: Sodom was a lush beautiful region of land whose inhabitants had known the goodness of God. Despite their exposure to, experience with, and witness of the one true loving Creator, the people of Sodom had rejected a relationship with God, and turned to numerous types of idolatry. When God's messengers were sent to the city, the men of Sodom...

I'm going to address your points one by one. You say there are studies to disprove my scientific links. Where are those studies? And no, don't bring out things like NARTH or any religious site, sites that are not credible and dis-credited by the scientific community.

As for your claim that scripture is so important and states timeless laws, you mean the laws that condone slavery? The ones that demonize women and keep them as second class citizens? You mean the ones that say you should stone someone for cursing at their parents?

As with any other topic, there are studies that claim to prove one point of view while others claim to prove the opposite point of view.

Whether homosexuality is biologically-oriented or a lifestyle choice is one such topic.

I've found that no matter what the studies claim to find, they are generally favorable to the position of the person/persons FUNDING the study.

That is one reason scripture is so important. It states timeless laws, written without desire for financial remuneration. Can't say the same thing for some recent politically-correct versions of the Bible, OR for fallable human studies either.

People have been sinning for centuries - and suffering the consequences for it. That is certainly no...

Here's a very important quote from the New Testament. It's from Romans and is NOT taken out of context, no matter what alleged "scholars" say.

Romans 1:24-27
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and...

There is nothing taken out of context in Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy,
Isaiah, Romans, 1 Corinthians, or 1 Timothy, just to name a few.

Try reading a real Bible front to back (not a politically-correct revision).

There is no true way to say that those chapters don't refer to homosexuality specifically, not "out of context".

Here's Just One:

Deuteronomy 23: 17
"There shall be no wh*** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

(continued in next comment)

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. You wrote:

"Homosexuality is not a sin
To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views."
"Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality."

I don't know which "scholars"(sic) you are referring to, but homosexuality IS addresses...

Sodomy is as much a sin as all the rest. In addition, it is also an abomination!

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don't feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren't human.

"I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if "Gays" have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate "(Legal Document)" of our union his...

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a "lifestyle", that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.