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Saturday, January 12, 2008
Wayne Winegarden :: Townhall.com Columnist
CSR and the Democratic Policies of the 2008 Elections
by Wayne Winegarden
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Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.
-- John Maynard Keynes.

Whoever the Democrats choose as their candidate for president, the rhetoric and policies pursued by the nominee will be remarkably similar: impose “Kyoto Protocol” energy restrictions on the economy; require health care for all; and, further increase the burden on Corporate America which the Democratic nominee will likely continue to vilify throughout the 2008 Presidential campaign. Effectively countering these wrongheaded policies requires a repudiation of these policies in the political arena of course. But, unless the counter-productive aspects of this rhetoric are exposed in their earlier stages of development, these policy prescriptions will not disappear regardless who wins this November.

Back in the mid-1990’s (or in Keynes words “a few years back”) the Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) movement began strong-arming corporations both domestically and around the world. The CSR movement created academic-like scribbling that magnified the voice of liberal activists and provided unwarranted credence to ideas that, if implemented, would weaken the U.S. economy and lower the welfare for all Americans.

CSR’s true agenda is to use corporations in order to thrust a liberal policy agenda on the country. Jarol Manheim documented this strategy in his 2004 book, “Biz-War and the Out-of-Power Elite”. Manheim illustrated that liberal ideologues, under the guise of CSR, waged an “anti-corporate campaign” with the sole purpose of using the corporate infrastructure to thrust the liberal political agenda on the country. The positions of the 2008 Democratic candidates are a testament to how successful this campaign has become.

Take global warming as an example. It is universally held by the Democratic candidates that the U.S. must adopt strict greenhouse gas emission requirements. Strict environmental regulations, which do not offset the adverse economic impacts from the policy, reduce overall economic growth and job creation. The U.S. Energy Information Agency (EIA) during the Clinton Administration estimated that overall economic growth could decline by up to 4.2 percent if a cap-and-trade system to achieve the Kyoto Protocol targets (7% below 1990 emissions by 2008-2012) were implemented.

Clearly then, there is no free lunch when it comes to environmental regulations. From the perspective of the environmentalists who believe that action must be taken regardless of the costs, these facts are inconvenient. The CSR solution to these inconvenient facts: vilify the corporation.

Under mounting populist campaigns against them, corporations have followed the CSR script by accepting the environmentalists’ positions. For instance, USCAP is a “partnership” of environmental groups and a diverse group of leading corporations such as Alcoa, PepsiCo, General Electric, and AIG. USCAP supports “Mandatory approaches to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the major emitting sectors including emissions from large stationary sources, transportation, and energy use in commercial and residential buildings” (www.uscap.org).

With Corporate America now “embracing” the environmental position, mandatory reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, that do not fully offset the negative economic consequences of the policy, have now been approved by the “representatives of the free market”. The CSR advocates strategy for addressing global warming is building momentum, and it is a real possibility that their environmental policies will become the law of the land.

The CSR game plan also calls for vilifying corporations in order to vilify the free market solutions to pressing public policy problems. This is the tactic they have used to advance their agenda with respect to health care reform.

CSR activists have vilified companies such as Wal-Mart for not providing health insurance for their employees. In so doing, the CSR activists blame the health care problems of the country on a lack of health insurance availability – as opposed to real problems such as over-zealous health care litigation and adverse incentives due to the third-party payer system. By blaming the health care problems on Corporate America, the CSR activists help enable the political calls for universal health care and other “solutions” that socialized medicine will allegedly bring.

Both the health care and global warming examples illustrate that the CSR strategy has been successful. As documented in Jarol Manheim’s book, CSR advocates are using Corporate America as a platform for pushing a liberal policy agenda. Countering these policies requires viable political and academic debates; it also requires a fundamental re-examination of the tenets of corporate social responsibility.

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About The Author

Wayne H. Winegarden Ph.D. is a partner in the firm Arduin, Laffer & Moore Econometrics.

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CO2 -- anything like ethnic cleansing?
Remember that "ethnic cleansing" was done by the Nazis in order to produce a more pure race. The concern of the "scientists" of the late 1800's through WWII was the "mongrelization" of the world with a drop in IQ, resulting in the end of our technological civilization. Really, I am NOT joking.

This all died with Hitler's atrocities (at least in Europe, where the THINKERS are). In the 1940's through the 1960's, it was then global COOLING that all the THINKERS were claiming would then cause the end of mankind.

I see only one pattern--some idiot group comes out with a REPENT! THE WORLD IS ENDING! mantra, and the "intelligentsia" of the left suck it up, not caring that they are drinking their own bathwater in huge gulps. Finally, the evidence becomes so overwhelming (like the fact that we have been cooling for 20 years) that the left cannot cover it up any more. So they move on.

Those of us who have learned history without the leftward slant of the liberal arts college watch the fools (like the lady above whose son is on her about shopping at Wal-Mart) and say that this country can't get any dumber. And then the liberal colleges go and prove us wrong.

As you can see above, 80% of the liberals respond by diatribe. The 20% who try to respond with facts either don't make sense or don't understand that the fact they use is either wrong or is able to be interpreted in another manner.

Thank God I am a Conservative.

Anne
I suspect that all those people living close to the lakes are praying that the AGW scam is true. I spent one winter in North Chicago when I was in MM "A" school. Some drunk toad ripped the door to the barracks off of it's hinges and it took a week to get it replaced. The wind was whipping up and down the hall and I nearly froze to death.

LOL, we used to put our beer on the ledge outdide the windows and it would freeze if we left it longer than half an hour.

Aaah see, again robusto doens't know

what he's talking about...

Problem is, sometime he might actually (by mistake of course!) post something that's true, and no one will believe him.. (at least those who bother to read his babble.)







Vic: Pretty much all of NYS gets cold...

But if you go above the east-west portion of the thruway (yes Saratoga) it gets VERY cold.

In fact, Watertown (1st Mt.Division) OFTEN hits record lows. And with the chill factor (wind off Lake Ontario) it get VERY VERY cold.

Snow? Remember Oswego, NY last winter?

In fact, when I was at Syr. U. they closed the school for registration for the first time in the schools history because of snow storm that closed down pretty much all of Upstate NY. Snow removal equip. was snowed in, and Mayor Lindsay (NYC) had to send up snow removal equip.

In fact, that's the joke... Summer is three weeks of poor ice skating.


Don't live there anymore!!! :-)



P.S. But the summers are beautiful.


str8t_talk: YUP! You did! :-)
.


Anne
I didn't thnk it was that cold in upstate NY. But I was over in Saratoga and not close to the lakes.

My big problem with upstate NY was all that white stuff that I had to dig out every day to get to work.

Anne
ROTFL...What is 90% of grammatically correct language without typos is cut and paste. Did I win the Daily Double?

JamieR: You know how to tell what part

of wobbie's posts are "copy & paste" and what part he wrote?




ModMark: Yeah, but when it's 2degrees,

and the wind is howling, the furs keep you toasty warm.

When we lived upstate NY, Mother had two... full length, one mink (and a couple of walking suits with fur collars.)

Very snappy dresser, my mother. :-)

And, believe me, she' have put PETA in its place!!!!! :-)



JamieR
You are wasting your time trying to debate Wobbie the idiot.

The Ozone scam was another one of those things the eco idiots rammed through. If you go to the NASA web site and call up their Ozone Hole trend graph you will see that the size of the hole has not changed significantly over several decades, including since the time that freon-12 was banned.

All we did was create another government requirement that adds expense and wastes energy because F-12 was more efficient than what we are using now.

It would be nice if the government would eliminate requirements when their need was proven to be false, but that will never happen. That is why we must fight this AGW scam tooth and nail.

If all these proposed laws are passed we will still be enforcing them in the middle of the next ice age when the glaciers are rolling over Chicago.

I might add...
When they need healthcare they return to the good ole' USA, but if we get HRC or socialism, they may have to get in line with everyone else. Of course with their money, they can buy the best healthcare, along with the liberal pres.

Anne
MM sounds like the mindset of the celebrities who get behind the microphones because they have the money. Yet they live in other countries OR support other countries' politics...such as: George c Looney, tom crews, angelina jollie, vanessa REDgrave, sheryl crows,(but doesn't wipe) ignore the mistakes, they're intentional.

ModMark: "..gov't supported marinas have
created the best ports for boaters :-)"

So everybody gets a chance to pay for your fun and sport...?

Aren't socialist countries great? No thank you!


But hey, you're free to move to Canada if you think it's so great... :-)



JamieR
Good Morning! I see you are a person of little required sleep as well, I usually only get 5-6 hours. 1. I need time alone once everyone is in bed. 2. My house varies from my college bound stepsons being here, to my Dad who is relocating. 3. A teenager who is full of questions which I gladly answer. 4. A husband who snores the 1st 2 hours of sleep, and 5. I'm a returning college student. Now that I know who you're linked to I know you are most likely a very good person, you have a good group there!

Moderate Mark
"Proper Temperature"
I like your analysis...funny. I have a friend who lives in Madison, Wisconsin which is on a decent size lake itself and they are "next door" to Lake Michigan.

ModMark: Sodus Point? Do any ice boating

And, the last I was upstate NY, I recall the lake level had risen... at least a little.

Who knew???



ModerateMark: Lake Ontario! Ha!!!

Then you know all about lake effects snow, etc.

Spent many of my "growing up" years less than a mile from Lake Ontario... Long about March is when you start looking for some gloBULL warming! Ha Ha




JamieR
Sorry to hear that, do you have perfect eyesight? If you're only 21, you could still enlist, although in this day and age, I'm not sure I would recommend it. My son is a Marine, but he's high security and well protected thank goodness.

I was ROTFL when I saw your "Floral" correction. I usually try to breeze right past anything he says, because it is nonsensical diatribes. I don't know how long you've been here, but most believe he's halD, TR who gets banned all the time, I believe it is treasonous something, I can't keep up, but always TR, and Pilgrim. We also believe he is NOT a pilot or a Naval Captain, otherwise he would have been court-martialed by now.

When you're in the military you cannot directly slander your superiors. He constantly puts down the President, which is court martial material. You can disagree with the administration in general, but you cannot personally insult them by name-calling and slandering them. He argues with everyone, and I tried to explain enriched uranium to him last nite on Burt P's column and he never did understand. So we mostly just ignore him. He's an annoyance, just thought I'd let you know. There are quite a few other intelligent people on this site though.

More gore
Here is the link to gorebull warming hypocrisy:
http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id= 367

Congressional policies
I'm turning into an old lady. Throughout my life, the only time I saw Washington do the sensible thing was during the Reagan administration. The media tore him apart for it at the time. In all the other administrations, Washington seemed to do the exact opposite of what appeared to be the sensible thing to do. That's still true. I could never understand why. I will state my observations plainly. What we used to call "communism" has a new name now, because the old name was well-known and hated. It's now called "environmentalism, liberalism, socialism, global warming, Kyoto Protocol, Department of Education, sex education, abortion, feminism, homosexuality, anti-religion, United Nations, World Bank, Nafta, European Union," and so on. Don't holler "McCarthyism" at me. Every day we see that they don't do the sensible thing. They undermine America, drive business out of the country, impoverish the people by driving down the value of the dollar, own the media, own the universities because of the parrots who teach there, and their one aim as evidenced by the results of all that they do is the destruction of the country. Why don't we start calling them again what they really are?

JamieR
Yep you called it right, I assure you those are F-18s Hornets or Super Hornets. I'm sure they don't gobble, but soar through the sky, we used to have both the Stealth aircrafts close to us, but they moved them to another location. A REAL turkey doesn't fly well. ; ;)

We would see them sometimes, but rarely now, those are awesome. When I went to OshKosh I saw the Concorde, that is one fascinating plane. When I visit my son I get to see the V-22 Osprey Helicopters among others.

johnnyv812
What is the "proper" temperature? Depends on who you're talking to, but seriously, you're right according to the theory of the 70s, we were to be in the middle of an Ice Age at the turn of the century, which would be right now! Al Gore went and spoiled all that with his HOT AIR! Talk about Carbon Emissions, b/w him & the Clintons they could thaw out Siberia...Stop all their respirations and we could stop goreBULL warming. ;)

These scare tactics come along about every 10-15 years and people fall for them every time! In the 60s it was over-population by the year 2000. In the 80s it was Acid Rain. NONE of these "scares" have come true foretold by the gloom & doom-sayers!

elko.mike
I've been all over CA, lived in Corpus Christi TX for 3 years also. Back to California, I like visiting, but the cost of living is outrageous. I've seen almost all of California from N-S E-W. Some very pretty country out there and very diverse, so is TX. Seems we went to Huntington Beach as well, also, my Dad did some work with Lockheed, F-117 Blackbird, wouldn't that be Palmdale, CA? And the F-16 in Fort Worth. He mostly did negotiations. Sounds like you're an engineer? Am I right?

So, you play guitar? Acoustical, bass, classic, steel? I have a very musical family, both daughters sing, one is making a CD, the other plays piano/keyboard, one son plays acoustical and classic guitar and another son plays trumpet. I used to sing solos, but don't anymore. I can sight read music and pick out tunes by ear.

Global Warming
I need some help in this debate!

What, exactly, is the 'proper' temperature for the planet?

When I was in high-school in the 1970's the press was all agog about global cooling and an impending ice-age. Now a few decades later the globe is now too hot, which will cause a huge sea-level change. What is the deal?

str8t_talk: Most of my career was at
Huntington Beach, CA. I never worked, per se, an aircraft program. I did some sensor processing work in support of (as I recall) the F-16 in St. Louis.

I did spend 2 years at Johnson Space Center in Clear Lake, TX. When I returned I moved over to Seal Beach, CA to work unmanned space things.

I used to pick a little country myself, but didn't make money, spent a lot of time, and so quit.

str8t_talk: I too worked there
and in fact wrote some of the guidance software for the Tomahawk Cruise Missile Fly Off, which was so long ago I can hardly remember it. My boss from that time was the program manager for Tomahawk and holds a number of patents relating to guidance of the thing over terrain.

MD really made its contributions to the military with its aircraft.

By the way, Doofus or Wobbie accused us Conservatives of being backwards earlier in the day. I didn't respond then, but it is worth noting that most of the engineers that worked on these things are among the sharpest people you will ever meet, are hardly backwards, and are a very conservative bunch. That exposes yet another WobbieDoofus fabrication.

As near as I can tell here on TH, the idiots are the Dims and Libs. Their one and only "progressive idea" is to take money from people who've worked hard to get it so that one of their enlightened ones, such as the KFC Queen, can give it to someone they somehow think is entitled.

----------------------------------------------
str8t_talk writes:
Saturday, January, 12, 2008 9:44 PM
My dad worked for
McDonnell Douglass who built the DC8, 9 & 10, the MD-11, 80, 90, 95, 600 & Explorer, the F-4 Phantom, F-15 Eagle, F/A Hornet & Super Hornet, AV-8 Harrier, T-45 Goshawk, C-17 Globemaster as well as the AH-64 Apache Helos, the Harpoon & Tomahawk missiles and the Skylab Space Station.

Nanny
Think what that Amnesty Bill would have done FOR Corporate America and TO our working class.

The Illegals newly made Legal would flood our labor market with millions of cheap laborers and drive wages down.

The former employers of Illegals would simply hire the next batch of Illegals for the cheaper labor.

The influx of Illegals is already glutting our labor market and causing Americans to be replaced.
That is ONE of the reasons for so many forclosures.
(Yes there are other reasons for forclosures too.)

America has some problems.
We need solutions, not tears.

str8t_talk: I too worked there
and in fact wrote some of the guidance software for the Tomahawk Cruise Missile Fly Off, which was so long ago I can hardly remember it. My boss from that time was the program manager for Tomahawk and holds a number of patents relating to guidance of the thing over terrain.

MD really made its contributions to the military with its aircraft.

By the way, Doofus or Wobbie accused us Conservatives of being backwards earlier in the day. I didn't respond then, but it is worth noting that most of the engineers that worked on these things are among the sharpest people you will ever meet, are hardly backwards, and are a very conservative bunch. That exposes yet another WobbieDoofus fabrication.

As near as I can tell here on TH, the idiots are the Dims and Libs. Their one and only "progressive idea" is to take money from people who've worked hard to get it so that one of their enlightened ones, such as the KFC Queen, can give it to someone they somehow think is entitled.

----------------------------------------------
str8t_talk writes:
Saturday, January, 12, 2008 9:44 PM
My dad worked for
McDonnell Douglass who built the DC8, 9 & 10, the MD-11, 80, 90, 95, 600 & Explorer, the F-4 Phantom, F-15 Eagle, F/A Hornet & Super Hornet, AV-8 Harrier, T-45 Goshawk, C-17 Globemaster as well as the AH-64 Apache Helos, the Harpoon & Tomahawk missiles and the Skylab Space Station.

utah the Mormons threw out!
You were so anxious to find fault with one of my posts that you took exception to a true statement;

>Since the beginning of recorded history, mankind has been cursed with charlatans demanding we sacrifice to control the climate, bring rains and cause the four seasons.<

Then you LIED and claimed I said the Ancients drove vehicles and rode in aircraft.

I neither said or implied any such thing.
You are a liar Utah and a very stupid one!

Your tirade about population expansion is not relevant to my post.

You seem to be so anxious to find fault with one of my posts you are frothing at the mouth.

Bellicose buffoons like you are screwup prone.
You are just a "Useful Idiot" who parrots party lies.

Help poor overburdened Corporate America
That would be 100 million-a-year(plus stock options)-poor- corporate-America? To over burden
them? unexcusable!!!As the middle class goes into
extinction and execs earn 100 times the salary of
their employees...my heart is broken for them!How
can we do this to them?Oh,my goodness! Have we lost our collective minds?Farewell middle class
and do forgive those of us in the rank and file
who seem to want to overburden you...forgive us,
we know not what we do!!!But,you poor-little-match-girl-execs-and-companies are safe...soon,
by design...most of us will be poor and the ideal will be achieved...a country of the rich
and those who serve them with no annoying middle
class!!! There IS a light at the end of the tunnel as we fade into poverty...rest easy.

utah the Mormons threw out!
How do I know that Conservatives think Liberals insane?

If you were not so unconscious you would notice that yourself.

YOU are one of the worst examples.

Why did the Mormons throw you out of the Church?
What did you do?

utah the Mormons threw out!
I forgot to commend you for not asking America to sacrifice to prevent Global Warming.

Glad to hear you are against the Koyoto Treaty.
Glad to hear you do not want harsher standards on gas mileage or any restrictions on heating homes, etc.

Butt you are doing YOUR part to prevent AGW aren't you?
http://www.snarkygossip.com/2007/04/23/so-how-does-sheryl-c row-do-a-number-two/

I don't live in Denver
I'm talking Eastern KS, last year we had 40 inches of snow, we usually have anywhere from 2-8 inches annually. This year, we've already had 18 inches and we get some of our biggest snows in January through March. In Colorado, I said southern, namely Crested Butte, where I just returned from, they've had 70 inches in the last week. I'm not sure of the total this season, but I think it's been 135 inches so far. It's the most snow we've ever seen in the fourteen years we've been going there. Those are firsthand reports, which are small towns and not reported by the larger cities! We live in a rural area and we keep track of our snow, because we own a farm, so we have to keep accurate moisture levels, soil temperatures, etc.

How would you know?
>If you could understand this you would know why Conservatives think all Liberals are insane!<

Did you ask a conservative, since you're not coherent enough to be politically inclined?

utah the Mormons threw out!
I do not recall telling you the Ancients drove any vehicle!
You would not be telling a LIE about me would you?
All you seem to be able to do is lie and whine when you get caught!

You Liberals whine about dependence on foreign oil yet block attempts to drill for domestic oil.
You Liberals whine about people in foreign lands not liking Americans.
You Liberals whine about "Global Warming & Carbon Footprints".

Liberal solution? Ethanol.

Now we depend on corn imported from Mexico.
Now the Mexican people are angry because we have taken their food and driven prices up.
Burning ethanol produces just as much carbon per gallon as petroleum but gets much less mileage and therefore more carbon is produced.

If you could understand this you would know why Conservatives think all Liberals are insane!

elko.mike
Which plant did you work at? My Dad worked at Tulsa, St. Louis, and Long Beach, CA. We went to California every year. Small world!

I have a cousin who is a famous singer, his grandfather lived in Chula Vista back then and we would stay with them a few days while we were there. His initials are GB, country singer, if you can figure that out, but I really don't know him that well. Funny thing is in college his favorite past-time was to play with his band in the garage, never knew he would become a multi-millionaire. He's retired now.

My Bad
> ancients made sacrifices to a wide variety of charlatans who claim, just as you do, that sacrifices must be made to control weather.<

Well, I didn't claim any sacrifices needed to be made, but thanks for reminding me that the ancients drove Hummers and that 2,000 daily flights left Mesopotamia Int'l Airport thousands of years ago.

Good analogy.


Source, please
>Yes, and we've had more snow in Kansas the last couple of years than ever before, so has Colorado.<

According to Denver weather summaries:

2005 snowfall minus 21.1 from normal
2006 snowfall minus 7.17 from normal
2007 snowfall minus 1.81 from normal

So, technically, the past two years have had more snowfall than the totally disastrous year 2005, but the snowpack is still considered drought conditions.

http://www.thorntonweather.com/wx20.php#thornton

str8t_talk: I too worked there
and in fact wrote some of the guidance software for the Tomahawk Cruise Missile Fly Off, which was so long ago I can hardly remember it. My boss from that time was the program manager for Tomahawk and holds a number of patents relating to guidance of the thing over terrain.

MD really made its contributions to the military with its aircraft.

By the way, Doofus or Wobbie accused us Conservatives of being backwards earlier in the day. I didn't respond then, but it is worth noting that most of the engineers that worked on these things are among the sharpest people you will ever meet, are hardly backwards, and are a very conservative bunch. That exposes yet another WobbieDoofus fabrication.

As near as I can tell here on TH, the idiots are the Dims and Libs. Their one and only "progressive idea" is to take money from people who've worked hard to get it so that one of their enlightened ones, such as the KFC Queen, can give it to someone they somehow think is entitled.

----------------------------------------------
str8t_talk writes:
Saturday, January, 12, 2008 9:44 PM
My dad worked for
McDonnell Douglass who built the DC8, 9 & 10, the MD-11, 80, 90, 95, 600 & Explorer, the F-4 Phantom, F-15 Eagle, F/A Hornet & Super Hornet, AV-8 Harrier, T-45 Goshawk, C-17 Globemaster as well as the AH-64 Apache Helos, the Harpoon & Tomahawk missiles and the Skylab Space Station.

SteveL: You are talking about things
that are different in kind. For this reason risk analysis for one is different than for the other. See my 12:00 PM post.

utah the Mormons threw out!
You seem ignorant of the fact that ancients made sacrifices to a wide variety of charlatans who claim, just as you do, that sacrifices must be made to control weather.

I do understand you merely parrot the words of other charlatans but they are still scam artists presenting a hard sell for a "Carbon Tax" that is simply a warmed over version of Algore's BTU Tax in a fresh coat of lipstick.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority. SenateReport

Now if you think these scientists are wrong then go get that reward at JunkScience.com

Anne: Not that it matters much, but

... I've actually installed equipment on the vomit comet and turned down a chance to ride on same. It is a NASA plane used to train astronauts and test equipment in a weightless environment. By flying a particular path the plane's occupants become weightless for a time -- some throw up; hence the name vomit comet.

While working on the Space Station -- I was actually one of a select group of engineers who changed the program from Space Station Freedom to the International Space Station back in the 90s -- I designed the Mobile Transporter Element, which is now the Mobile Service Center (MSC). That is a device that transports supplies between the shuttle cargo bay and modules on the space station. Astronauts looking through a glass cupola operate the MSC with a joy-stick hand controller. We installed and tested the hand controller apparatus on the vomit comet back in the 90s.

--------------------------------------

Anne writes:
Saturday, January, 12, 2008 8:47 PM


Heaven knows where he got the DC-9 should be
...the Vomet Comet. Probably made that one up...

Anne
Yes, and we've had more snow in Kansas the last couple of years than ever before, so has Colorado. Did you hear about the snow in Baghdad yesterday?! Gee, must be all that gorebull warming! Gore and a few of the TH posters are full of bull!

My dad worked for
McDonnell Douglass who built the DC8, 9 & 10, the MD-11, 80, 90, 95, 600 & Explorer, the F-4 Phantom, F-15 Eagle, F/A Hornet & Super Hornet, AV-8 Harrier, T-45 Goshawk, C-17 Globemaster as well as the AH-64 Apache Helos, the Harpoon & Tomahawk missiles and the Skylab Space Station. He worked there for 30 years and retired as a Quality Assurance Manager, he was very good at his job and many times fired people who let parts go through inspection with flaws. Too bad not all managers were as efficient as he was. He could see flaws with the naked eye that many had missed going through a dye test.

Yes, women are really ignorant when it comes to technology, planes and cars. I went to OshKosh and knew more of the planes than the guy I was with and he was an aeronautical engineer. I guess that came from growing up with a Dad in the aircraft industry.

Men with little...egos don't like women who know too much, that's why they lash out at women like Anne & me. I'm so NOT offended! LOL

That is why confident men like Doc and em listen to women, their manhood is not compromised!

Get real
>Since the beginning of recorded history, mankind has been cursed with charlatans demanding we sacrifice to control the climate, bring rains and cause the four seasons.<

Never in recorded history has there been a time of such technological advances which have resulted in such environmental degradation.

A hundred years ago air travel was limited to a few hundred yards. The horse and buggy and the railroad were the standard means of transportation.

The world's population grew 3 and a half times in the 20th century and doubled between 1960 and 2000.

It is ridiculous to use recorded history when there has never been an era of history anything like what we experience today.

That's not to say that man made global warming is anything more than a theory at this juncture, but former models are irrelevant unless they project future population growth and the accompanying use of fossil fuels.

SteveL
If you believe what you are trying to sell us then why don't you go over to JunkScience.com and claim the reward for proving AGW is real?
Last I heard it was up to $120,000.

Since the beginning of recorded history, mankind has been cursed with charlatans demanding we sacrifice to control the climate, bring rains and cause the four seasons.
We don't call them Witches or Shamen, etc., today, we call them Global Warming Alarmists.

Risk reduction
Here's a reminder of conservatives' risk reduction:

In 2003, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq because it was *possible* that Saddam *might* be developing Weapons of Mass Destruction that he might *possibly* give to terrorists. Nothing was 100% certain, but Bush ordered the invasion because he said we couldn't take the risk.

So how come those same conservatives who said we couldn't take the risk of allowing Saddam to remain in power, are now prepared to take the risk of allowing human-caused global warming?

You didn't ask for 100% proof beyond doubt that Saddam was giving WMD to terrorists before you took military action. Why have you raised the threshold of proof so much higher for global warming, when the stakes are at least as high?


str8t_talk: You're right... saw those

articles... Excellent.

But the gloBULL warmies are so entrenched in algore's hoax that they won't or can't even look at the evidence.

Take a look at some of halD's responses above. LOL


As I said, we could be neck deep in a global FREEZING cycle, where summer would be three weeks of poor ice skating, and they'd STILL be looking for evidence (acceptable to them, of course) that unless we change our ways, we'll kill the earth by our carbon footprints.


Of course, I'd love to have a carbon footprint the size of "Big foot!



How about those free market solutions?
Newt Gingrich has just written an entire book, "A Contract With The Earth," detailing how free market approaches can be taken to improve the environment and help prevent global warming.

http://tinyurl.com/3alwkd

But instead of giving Gingrich's ideas a fair hearing, conservatives have now turned on Gingrich as some kind of sellout too.

That proves right there that many conservatives are just not serious about dealing with environmental issues.

At least be honest with the American public. Be honest enough to tell them you just don't care to discuss the issue any further.

MyOpine: the little smarmy worm took off

and went to Barone's column...

What a worm!



Anne
Some items are a little harder to pin down than others.
The Ozonosphere has a lot of PC myth attached to it.

Doc & Anne
Doc: I agree w/your list of POTUS wannabes to look out for.

Anne here is more fuel for the no global warming stance: Humans Not to Blame for Global Warming from staff reports...SUMMARY: He says warming of the earth occurs naturally.

One of the world’s foremost meteorologists, Dr. William Gray, has joined the scientific dissent, calling global warming a theory of “people who don’t understand how the atmosphere works.”

At a packed lecture hall in North Carolina, the 78-year-old Gray, a pioneer in the science of seasonal hurricane forecasts, said humans are not responsible for the warming of the earth. Instead, it occurs naturally through ocean cycles.

Richard John Neuhaus with the Cornwall Alliance, said: “There are many meteorologists, climatologists, people who have been following this for years and years, who are very skeptical about some of the inflated and reckless claims made about global warming."

MyOpine: frobrusto will either ignore

you, or run off and find some article on the internet, OR, call you names, OR accuse you of being "old, very young or immature?" LOL


That's about all he has in his little bag of tricks... :-)









MyOpine: frobrusto may give you an

answer.... but it will be a "copy & paste" right
off the internet...

How can you tell?

The "cut & paste" will be gramatically correct, and the spelling will be right on!

What is frobrusto's will be fraught with grammar and spelling errors..



Heaven knows where he got the DC-9 should be
...the Vomet Comet. Probably made that one up...








Robert Robert, Captain of the Head
Gee;
Every time I question you on a subject you profess to be familiar with you fail to answer my easy question.

You get another F grade Wobbie!

You really don't know what causes ozone or why there are holes in the Ozonosphere?

You need to get back to flying your toy airplane at Wal*Mart.

Robert
"{folks I know tell me that what goes on in Siberia...is in Alaska...and there is LOTS of oil in Siberia."

Perhaps the fringes but that is it. Unless there is some very new discovery. Let me know if you have any data. I am checking out now but we shall meet again here on TH I am sure. Siberia is floating in oil probably much more than Saudi

Folks
Adios and have a great rest of the weekend. Of course check 6 and keep em coming

Cheers
Be well

elko.mike
I just about bet when I get it done, I can go to the James Dean days and win me a trophy or prize of some kind.
It's in Fairmont In. (his birth city) about 60 miles north of here.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

elko.mike
"... -- cities and towns, which are of course the most liberal of places -- are where the grid problems exist."

Those cities and towns are why you folks exist. They are the engines that make everything work. But if you prefer herding please feel free to do so.

"Let's see, Dims regulate the bejesus out of something so that it can't be properly maintained at any price and then we will blame Conservatives because they didn't send enough money to government. "

Oh not at all. There is a need to allow for common good items like highways, sewers, power etc. Cooperation is the only way it will come. That is how and why the railroads were built and canal companies, etc. You folks sound like modern Luddites more and more every day...


Thank you elko.mike and HalD
(now how often has that happened!) for your helpful responses to my citizen-statesmen post of 3:27.

elko.mike writes:
Doc: Is there a picture on the
web? Do you take it to shows?

Me-No, no shows. I will scan a pic and put it on picasa

I think I would go with the Aztec Orange, if it were me.

Me- I dunno yet, I really love FE Red. LOL

All stock - drool on keyboard. How did you swing this? Did you own it forever? Has it been restored? So many questions.

Me-Not restored in any real sense, other than paint. I bought it like this. And if the wife would work some OT, he also has a 58 Chevy Belair in not too bad of shape I would love to have. LOL

Did the 2-barrel go with the stock with 3 on the tree and the straight six?

Me-Not this one, it has a single barrel carb

I'm very jealous, Doc.

Me-You will be when you see the pic. I will get it put up in the AM before I go to see pops, or I will email it to GunnyG and see if he can post it on his blog.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!






Robert Robert, Captain of the Head
Since you mention holes in the Ozonosphere, please explain what they are and what causes them and what generates the Ozonosphere?

You do know don't you?

Or are you just playing useful idiot again to parrot other people's lies?

Jackpine Savage
"Yes, they Utilities are heavily regulated because they are legal monopolies. But that doesn't change the fact that the government has no business maintaining the grid. "

LMAO they are legal monopolies? Well what does that do to your model?

"Regardless of how much money they made you it doesn't alter the fact I stated. My son just happens to be a pipeline inspector. For a Private company. So I'm not exactly ignorant of how things work in the world."

Well if so you are lying.

Actually, frobrusto IS an ozone hole!
.

Doc & EM: Did you guys see frobrusto's

post to moi?

So now I'm afraid of new technology, selfish, and not very well informed. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Geeze, he is SUCH a lunch box!

He has NO IDEA what I do know.... about him... IP address maybe! LOL

The twit is burnt toast..... LOL LOL LOL






Doc: Is there a picture on the
web? Do you take it to shows?

I think I would go with the Aztec Orange, if it were me.

All stock - drool on keyboard. How did you swing this? Did you own it forever? Has it been restored? So many questions.

Did the 2-barrel go with the stock with 3 on the tree and the straight six?

I'm very jealous, Doc.

Doc: frobrusto ought to take up

Tinsldr2 on his offer... but frobrusto is too much of a coward...


IGNORE frobusto...
.

wobbie
Go watch the discovery channel awhile. They just had a special the other night on things developed by NASA, that benefited the public. Better yet, go answer tail2long’s .mil addy
Twit

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

em: Very, very SMART guy! :-)

In fact, the most successful of men all say they listen to their wives...



Anne and elko.mike
Did you see him on the Fox debate the other night? He was GREAT! What a statesman. I did not watch the rest of the dweebs tho. OK OK I admit it, I stuck around a little and watched RP smack around the guys that had the questions, that was funny!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!


elko.mike
Oh yes, VERY CHERRY! 5 window, completely original, 6 cyl, 3 on the tree (still shifts like new) enclosed drive train, no bondo and no rust! Only thing I have done to it is crager ss wheels, and although everyone raves about the green metallic paint, I was thinking of going either Harley Aztec orange or fire engine red. (my favorite). And when I said earlier that I love it more than my wife, I really meant my wife loves it too. No really! LOL

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Anne: Something is happening here
Agreed. Fred seems to be gathering steam, and he wears the conservative mantle well.

I'm all for women's intuition -- my wife told me a couple of weeks ago that Fred was the one. I believe you both.


Doc: 54 Chev Pickup
Wow -- is it cherry like I think? Back in the 60s my cousin had one of about that vintage; it may have been a 56. He painted it black, put really hot chrome baby moon hubcaps, and chrome stack pipes. The black and chrome was a very nice touch It was a 4 speed and he taught me to drive a clutch with that truck.

Fred's a good old boy would understand keeping the truck rather than sending him the cash.


Disgruntled ex Lt Col scribbles:
You Jack are either ignorant or need help. mEnergy companies have made me Lots of cash LOL

LMFAO, another albore, he wants us to give everything, but keep his. If you made so much cash, and you care about the poor so much, why not give it to the IRS, or a Church? They do take donations numbnuts.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

I keep tellin' you guys....

Call it womens' intuition, or a gut feeling, but Fred IS the one!

And NOT that I don't have valid reason... I do!

Fred is a proven Conservative, with no lust for power... What more do we want?

If we can get someone like Fred in OUR White House, we're back on the road to becoming the ol' Conservative Republican Party we used to be!


That's my story, and I'm stickin' by it!!!



Doc: Doofus missed another point
The urban areas -- cities and towns, which are of course the most liberal of places -- are where the grid problems exist. Let's see, Dims regulate the bejesus out of something so that it can't be properly maintained at any price and then we will blame Conservatives because they didn't send enough money to government.

That's Doofus logic for ya.

You didn't actually prove me wrong hal
Yes, they Utilities are heavily regulated because they are legal monopolies. But that doesn't change the fact that the government has no business maintaining the grid.

Regardless of how much money they made you it doesn't alter the fact I stated. My son just happens to be a pipeline inspector. For a Private company. So I'm not exactly ignorant of how things work in the world.

Hal, you woulkd actually get more people to read your drivel if you weren't so condenscending.

But then again you wouldn't be the HalD we all love to hate. :op

Doofus: All I can say is
thank God I don't get all of the government that I pay for, and I pay for a bunch of it. Oh, and I drove perhaps, perhaps 1,200 miles last year. I have my own well and septic system. Does that mean I get a big check back?

Probably not.

Disgruntled ex Lt Col scribbles:
You have not and even gone so far as to hamper care for the poor and needy

Yup folks, he's a socialist from anus.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Disgruntled ex Lt Col scribbles:
Oh now there you go again all I ask is that you pay for all you use. That actually is what a real patriot would do...

Umm I thought you socialist wanted us to pay for the deadbeats too? You know, like you, TR. lilly and last and least wobbie! And a few other quackers here on TH.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Jackpine Savage
"Umm, I hate to burst your bubble hal, but the "Grid" just happens to be Privately owned."

Oh it is but heavily regulated and monitored well if we had a competent government...

"It's not the nanny government's job to maintain the grid, it's already being done by the companies that own their part of it. I know linemen, and not one of them is a government employee. If a company doesn't keep up it's part, it will lose money and go under eventually, to be replaced by a company that will keep it up. That's what's known as "Market Forces", I'm aware that this is an alien concept to a dedicated socialist."

LMAO as a businees man who has dealt with small and big companies you are so full of it. Did you ever hear of utilities? Heavily regulated and controlled as they probably should be

"Oh in case you weren't aware, the oil and gas pipelines are Privately owned too."

You Jack are either ignorant or need help. mEnergy companies have made me Lots of cash LOL

elko.mike
"Oh, Doofus thinks we are under-taxed and need to send even more to government. Of course that's the Doofus Dims idea for anything -- send more money to government."

Oh now there you go again all I ask is that you pay for all you use. That actually is what a real patriot would do...
You have not and even gone so far as to hamper care for the poor and needy

You're a Legend Hal
In your own mind.

Hal scribbles:""LMAO and the reason that the grid is failing like so much other infrastructure is you deadbeat conservatives used it and did not maintain, repair or expand it. That is the essence of fundamentalist conservatism - use up everything, replace nothing,,,, Well girls - the bill is coming due.""

Umm, I hate to burst your bubble hal, but the "Grid" just happens to be Privately owned.

It's not the nanny government's job to maintain the grid, it's already being done by the companies that own their part of it. I know linemen, and not one of them is a government employee. If a company doesn't keep up it's part, it will lose money and go under eventually, to be replaced by a company that will keep it up. That's what's known as "Market Forces", I'm aware that this is an alien concept to a dedicated socialist.

Oh in case you weren't aware, the oil and gas pipelines are Privately owned too.

You're so smart hal.


Jason
Did you use to have a teacher named lilly?


http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!


Disgruntled ex Lt Col scribbles:
LMAO and the reason that the grid is failing like so much other infrastructure is you deadbeat conservatives used it and did not maintain, repair or expand it.

Ok, I reckon we should have tied a wire to hillary when she found out about Monica. Never mind, ain't that big a battery in the world! Bill was in there 8 yrs right? Does he get any of the credit at all doofus? Sometimes I think you are a Martian, other times, I know you are from Uranus.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

CSR and Chiquita
Chiquita, the banana distributor, used to be called the United Fruit Company. In Central American, this company had a long and sordid history of enslaving Latin American peasants to work on its plantations for low wages, long hours, and under harsh conditions. It, along with the CIA and the US Military, has actively attempted to influence politics in the region to prevent radical change. To any company who wants to enslave peasants, pollute the enviroment, destroy the rain forest, I say go ahead. But I will not buy your products, and I will encourage others not buy your products because you lack corporate social responsibility. My money will go to your competitors who exercise CSR. That is the bottom line to worry about. Jay.

Jackpine Savage writes:
Y/W Jack

same thing doofus: hill, shill, Heck it even rhymes!

elko.mike: I was thinking about selling the 54 chevy pickup and sending the money, but I love that thing more than my wife. Does that make me stingy? Naw, I'll send him some cash too...
LOL
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

There is no "CSR Movement".
And if there is a "CSR" movement it needs to be stopped by your representatives in government. The (P)resident is not empowered by the United States Constitution to enact tax and spend government programs of any kind; not even the military. All such business is the province of the Congress and most especially the House of Representatives. Anyone who believes that the health care sector of the United States economy does not need to be overhauled is simply deluding themselves. At present all the honest people ar paying the tab for all the free riding dishonest people. All will receive health care in the current system. That care is paid for by those who pay for health insistence. The providers do not work for free. They simply charge the paying customers enough to cover the free care dispensed to those who cannot or will not pay. As far as forcing businesses to provide health insurance to employees, it would be better to make it illegal for companies to do so. That would force all working persons into the same pool and the costs would go way, way down. The insurance providers would then need to compete directly without the intervening layer of corporate dingbats and the corporate dingbats would not have that hook in the butt of the employees. One great big GROUP of employed people getting discounts for not smoking. But this wouldn't work either in that this would be huge monopoly fleecing the public. The Republicans would would probably be sure to outlaw the Microsoft or health care from negotiating prices with drug companies. What amazes me about Republicans is that huge monopolies are fine with then so long as they don't have "government" wrote on em. The real solution to the problems can be found at GreaterVoice.org/extend. We all need more control over our government.

Doofus Logic: Go to Church and
watch a bridge fall down. But I put money in the collection plate.

But wait, isn't that government's function? Oh yeah, that's right. Aren't we pouring more money that ever before into government? Well, yes.

Oh, Doofus thinks we are under-taxed and need to send even more to government. Of course that's the Doofus Dims idea for anything -- send more money to government.

Before we do that, perhaps Doofus would care to explain why bridges are falling down in say, Minneapolis, which as I recall is a pretty liberal place. Why would that be Doofus? How exactly have Christians effected that? Did they pray for it? How, Hal, how? References and logic please.

Doc: Good News for Fred
Thanks for the link. Yesterday I sent Fred a contribution to keep the red pickup going. His campaign appears to be picking up.

elko.mike/Jack
"The real underlying problem is that the power grids are no longer able to provision for peak demand. Hence there is a need to do something that is more rational than what we do now. Doing it as big brother doesn't feel right. "

LMAO and the reason that the grid is failing like so much other infrastructure is you deadbeat conservatives used it and did not maintain, repair or expand it. That is the essence of fundamentalist conservatism - use up everything, replace nothing,,,, Well girls - the bill is coming due.

Jackpine Savage: Other issues
The grid itself is decaying and running out of carrying capacity in the urban areas. So even if more power is generated it is going to be extremely expensive to deliver it. As a country we just haven't kept up with infrastructure as we should have.

There's no question we need to produce more power, and nuclear is one of the best options we have. Didn't one of the green groups actually come out in support of nuclear recently?

USMC Lt.
" writes: Saturday, January, 12, 2008 4:18
Wobbie is a HELLary shill"

I support Hillary but I am far from a shill.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This shill (shil) Pronunciation Key
n. One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

That would be you with Rush so be careful


"Thompson is the only conservative in this race and the only candidate that I can vote for with enthusiasm."

True and that is why no one really supports him. The party is over folks you are proven totally incompetent

"NONE of the things he's ever said would pass the lips of a real Reagan Conservative.
Almost everything I've ever read, or been told, about RWR is in direct conflict with what Wobbie says. "

Really use an example please. I knew Ronnie and you ectremists would have run him out as a RINO. I am not nor have I ever been a Reagan Conservative even though I did vote for him once.

"NO REAL "REAGAN CONSERVATIVE" WOULD EVER say that more government regulation is the answer to a problem. Reagan knew that the government was the problem, not the solution."

Oh Reagan used regulations all right and grew government. I guess History is only taught overseas any more?

"It's simple economics 101."

Did you take and pass econ 101? If so where?


Jackpine, Doc, Anne: Received an
interesting response to a note I sent Mike Duncan, chair of the GOP.

My note was, in essence, that the GOP needs a plan to tackle real problems in a GOP way. I told him this needed to be similar in many respects to Newt's Contract with America and provide a laundry list of things we will do the GOP way.

The interesting response was that they would take it up at their staff meeting this week. In summary form the list is

1. Be specific and measurable
2. Smaller government -- say, 12-15% of GDP.
3. Honesty in budgeting.
4. Eliminate earmarks.
5. Put real equity in the SS trust fund.
6. Impeach a judge now and again.
7. Secure the border
8. Evaluate laws and treaties in the context of the threat of terror.
9. Top-to-bottom government agency review to adjust balance between federal, state and local governments.
10. I'm too lazy to think of this one

elko.mike
There is a really simple answer, but the lefties will howl. Build nuke plants to power the stupid grid.

Of course they'll never go for it. heck we have environmental wackos trying to shut down hydro plants to save the Snail Darter.

Because as everyone knows, Animals are worth saving while humans are evil. (Or at least the darwinist version of evil (George bush?))

Wow Doc
That was pretty eye opening.

I was already planning to vote for fred tuesday,
but this will help convince a few fence-sitting friends.

Thanks for the info. :o)

Jackpine Savage: But wait, there is more
I happen to know that the power companies are working to allow appliances to monitor themselves and report back. For instance, that old air conditioner isn't working too well; let's tell the power company and they can have a word with you or even raise the rates.

Want to use the air conditioner in the middle of the day when it is the hottest? Well premium pricing will follow. Using more electricity to cool than is warranted -- well you have shabby insulation and someone will notice. Etc.

The justification for a lot of it is to stop brown outs. It is better to tweak an appliance here, a thermostat there, than it is to brown out a neighborhood.

There are aspects that aren't conservative in this and there are some common sense aspects also. Hence I am a bit conflicted about it all.

The real underlying problem is that the power grids are no longer able to provision for peak demand. Hence there is a need to do something that is more rational than what we do now. Doing it as big brother doesn't feel right.

Jackpine Savage; I know... I keep

forgetting that we can't take care of ourselves....


hmmm Fred?
Why Fred has a good chance, look at all the numbers on this GOP survey.
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/january/0111_survey_result s1.shtml

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Anne
"Big Brother to control thermostats in homes?
Proposed mandate would grant utility companies unlimited remote access to regulate temperatures."


But don't you know they only have our best interests in mind? Our great democratic leaders are only protecting us from ourselves. We are incapable of deciding certain things on our own, we need the benificent leaders to take care of us for our own sake.

We shouldn't have to choose whether we want to save the world and buy compact flourescents, or keep being evil republicans who use incandescant light bulbs.

We don't need to be able to control the temperature in our home, a bureaucrat 100 miles away knows the optimum temperature for my home.

What America needs is a mommy, and Hillary is that mommy. (Ask HalD he'll tell ya)



*Spam Alert!*

Go five rounds with the 08 presidential candidates!
Play Political Punchout 08!
On my blog.

*End Spam Alert *

Doc: That link doesn't work...
.


Anne
http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=2043
Did you read any of the other links there? I found this one. Good article about the GW BS.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

CSR movement: Does this include.....

"Big Brother to control thermostats in homes?
Proposed mandate would grant utility companies unlimited remote access to regulate temperatures."

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59639

Add thermostats to the list of private property the government would like to regulate as the state of California looks to require that residents install remotely monitored temperature controls in their homes next year.

"The government is seeking to limit rolling blackouts and free up electric and natural gas resources by mandating that every new heating and cooling system include a "non-removable" FM receiver. The thermostat is also capable of controlling other appliances in the house, such as electric water heaters, refrigerators, pool pumps, computers and lights in response to signals from utility companies. If contractors and residents refuse to comply with the mandate, their building permits will be denied. "











GloBSwarming =
You can fool some of the people all of the time,
But if I can fool any of the people at any time,
I will sell them carbon offsets!
Bigmacass 2001

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

USMC LT

.....Robert stopped to think once and he forgot to start again .....COLOSSUS

halD: I cannot believe that even you

are fool enough to go there...

"In other words, silence the skeptics; silence anyone that might have any credibility with the people. And James Spann definitely has credibility with his audience."

Not when Cullum and her algore gloBULL warmies advocated for stripping the credentials of anyone who disagreed with thier gloBULL warming theory...

And that's not even taking into consideration those who lost their jobs because they wouldn't buy into the bogus gloBULL warming hoax.

And lets not talk about those who received DEATH THREATS because they didn't buy into the algore warming hoax........


GIVE ME A BREAK!



But, I do like how you shoot yourself in the foot so often. Gives me a chuckle! LOL



baseballdoc writes: "RESIST THE NEXT

ICE AGE"


".....SUPPORT GLOBAL WARMING ..."


And, I'm sure you've noticed that when anyone brings up the "globull cooling.. ice age is coming" in the '70's the warmies won't even acknowledge it!

Wonder why that is? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...




Jackpne Saves: Make that Indian Head
sorry for the clutter. Arrowhead? Man the old brain just burps all the time anymore.

Jackpne Saves: I lived in the Arrowhead
Country of WI for a time and we used to say "I sure hope summer comes on a weekend this year so I can enjoy it." One develops interesting coping mechanisms to live through winters in the North Country. Every year we played a big slow pitch softball tournament on a frozen lake. It was right outside the tavern, which doubled as the dugout. Staying at bat was ... well you can fill in the blanks. Most of all I DO NOT miss the bugs -- gads they had mosquitoes and flies of one sort or another that took flesh. OUCH!

Sinking iron in the Pacific; that sounds pretty good. I hate to mention this (my tongue is firmly in my cheek) but instead of provoking Iranians in the Straights of Hormuz, why don't we bring the ships to California and sink 'em off the coast? After we drain them of all noxious fluids of course. There is an idea Dims could embrace and you heard it right here from a right winger.




onegoodguy: Try the book "Restoration"
by George Will. In it he makes the case for term limits and in the early chapters he discusses the history of citizen legislators. One thing to support your idea is that many of the Founding Fathers advocated property ownership as a voting qualification. You might research it from that angle.

Years ago I was able to spend one week with Dr. Deming at one of his seminars. He was a man of extraordinary accomplishment and that was one very interesting week.

Another interesting area for investigation is the "Armey Curve", which characterizes growth of the economy as a function of tax burden. In this thread's discussion, regulations are also a burden that hinders economic growth. With such initiatives we are trading future wealth (not ours, not ours but our progeny's) for a near term goal that may, or may not, be of benefit to future generations. It seems to me that this part of the policy debate is too often ignored.

elko.mike
""first we should do no harm""

That pretty much says it all.

I read recently about a group of wackos in california that want to dump Iron into the pacific ocean to increase algea growth, in hopes that the algea will soak up excess CO2.

How stupid is this?
It ranks right up there with the idiots that anted to dump soot on the polar ice caps to stop Global cooling in the 70s.

Every few years, the alarmist pop up with some new Crisis that we have to pay for. When was the last time you heard about the "Holein the Ozone Layer"? That one played out and was shown to be pure hype.

Of course silly things like facts mean nothing to the "true Believers" In the 80s the true believers walked around in winter parkas ans ski masks to protect themselves for the ozone hole, and chided anyone who didn't toe the line.

Sound familiar?

Anne your line about "a couple months of bad ice skating was hilarious. Here in northern Michigan we have a saying that goes "We have two seasons, winter, and 3 months of bad snowmobiling".

The past couple winters here have been like the ones I remember back in the day.
We had a white thanksgiving, and we'll probably have a white easter too.

I wouldn't mind a little global warming about now. :op

onegoodguy
Try the Norman Rockwell Museum in MA especially the back up for I think it was townhall. The one with the worker standing up in the meeting. Also, the Federalist papers

Political Quality
elko.mike
Interesting to see the Deming reference. "Couldn't agree more with your thesis. Wouldn't it be interesting to apply continuous quality improvement to politicians. Is "Political Quality" an oxymoron?? "Politician Quality"?

Still trying to find refences/backup for the following arguement and would appreciate help from some of you learned ladies and gentlemen.

I am under the impression that our forefathers anticipated that for the large part our legislators would likely be drawn from citizens who had achieved success, earned the respect of their peers/neighbors, probably acquired considerable property along the way and "then" went in to politics out of a sense of patriotism/civic responsibitity and in order to "give back" to the their country and the system that allowed said success. (Generalization and oversimplification but you get the drift) Is there backup for this impression in the record? Where might I be likely to lay my hands on it. A quick google search doesn't point to much.

Got a nice lead from Expound Truth. Thank You.

Robert
Every bit of data I had unless there is new data shows two years supply at most. I have seen a bit of hyperbole lately but no "facts". This from yet another life - oil expert

Robert
"IN politics you do accept things and people that you dont like even when those people have ruined their honor...because in the end "your" honor is about pursuing what "you" want to accomplish."

True to some extent but that is the logic that supported the Nazi in power sadly. At some point you must say that I have been wrong and an honorable man cannot continue to do this. For the Republican Party I think that point was reached during Katrina


"It is kind of why a lot of people in the officer corps are serving in Iraq (ie volunteering for extreme tours ie back to backs)...it would be easy to say "this is screwed up and we never should have done it and I dont have any part in it...or the minimal part in it" but then it is "your" honor that is not performing not the other guys."

To a point that point was reached when all the flags and lots of 0-5/6 s, rightly in my mind, walked during the "stay the course" years rather than lead troops to disaster. I wager that played a large part along with the 06 elections

Anne: They Can Send Globull Warming
my way for sure.

Systems theory tells us that messing with a system we don't understand isn't a good idea and in fact will make matters worse. For example, Al Bore's worry about climate extremes being a consequence of global warming -- well guess what, much around when you don't know what you are doing will make the extremes worse. Certainly Al Bore, Noel Laureate, can't be for that. So a reasonable person (not that we are dealing with such in this debate), would take the position that first we should do no harm. There is much that scientists don't understand about this entire topic and to start mucking around with it in the face of all this uncertainty is to probably do harm.

But I doubt, as do you, that this is the real objective. Rather, agreeing with the article's thesis regarding CSR, there is a gaggle of morons who, in the name of what they view as holy, want to take away liberty.

Jackpine Savage writes:
But what do I know? I'm just an evil conservative small businessman.

Well, evidently, you know enough to keep your business nose out of the realm of “CSR”
This is nothing but a new and worse form of the PC crowd. All the kids started at wal mart while in school and they liked working there. As you stated, none of them felt “chained” there!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Nasa like performance
The "race" to the moon was a national initiative that ushered in several technologies that raised our standard of living to levels never seen. It provided great national pride and had a can-do spirit that reflected on all people. It was clearly in the nations best interest. An energy initiative along the same lines would also be in the nations best interest. It works best when you use the "carrot and stick" model versus the "whip" model however.

Disgruntled ex Lt Col
Just because I say the moon is made of green cheese does not mean my idea should carry the same weight and get the same coverage as one that is accompanied by lots of repeatable, testable data

You mean like alBore and his carbon offset company, or alBore and his 30k a year utility bills or both working together to make a cooler planet? Of course he might have to give up Pvt. Jet's and SUV’s, as neither contributes too much to cooling the planet. Yes sir re BoB, I sure can get behind bicmacass and support his message.
NOT!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!


http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

As for the actual article....
To try to drag the conversation back the the actual article, I want to say somethng about CSR.

First of corporations dont have any actual responsibility ecxept to it's shareholders.

CSR is a waste of corporate resources and time, and do absolutely nothing to alter toe "Corporate image". Ask Wal-Mart.

They've been on a huge CSR project for the past couple years, ever since Unon sponsored lefties started their "kill wal-mart" campaigns.

They've made their store more "Green", they've given millions to local environmental causes.
They've built homes with Habitat for Humanity, and on and on, ad nauseum.

Has itslowed down the protests, and the "Hate sites" devoted to wal-mart? Nope.

If you look closely you will see the whole thing is abot unions. The union want into wal-mart, so they can build up sagging dues from an ever decreasing vict. er I mean "member" base.

Funny thing is, every time the wal-mart employees vote on a union, the unions Lose!

Not once have I ever been to a wal-mart store and saw an employee chained to a cash register.
I have yet to see a wal-mart employee with shackles to keep them fromleaving.

In fact every time I've interacted with a wal-mart employee, they've been happy with their job and had no complaints.

And I'm not some "rich guy" living in an ivory tower, in fact my wife works for the competition,
she's a cashier at Kmart! (Who like wal-mart even offers Part-Time employees reduced rates on insurance)

The only thing a CSR campaign does is makes the CEO more popular at liberal coktail parties, while costing their companies millions.

But what do I know? I'm just an evil conservative small businessman.


RESIST THE NEXT ICE AGE

.....SUPPORT GLOBAL WARMING ...

.....COLOSSUS

Moderate Mark
Here's a link to a series of articles about "Global Warming Deniers", You know, all those gus supposed to be in the pocket of Exxon?

Maybe these may help you understand why som any on the right refuse to drink Gore's kool-aid.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=c6a32614-f906-459 7-993d-f181196a6d71&k=0

Every person who "believes" in AGW needs to read this series.

And just so you know they're not written by some rabid right winger, in fact it's from the Canadian National Post.

race vs. gender vs. CSR
Hillary was wondering if Obama has done enough "spadework", they will eat their own if it furthers their own agenda, what say you robert and hal?

Race vs. gender
Hillary was wondering if Obama had done enough "spadework", what do robert and hal think about that? Is that a race card or a gender card? The silence from sharpton/jackson is deafening!

As far as energy policy goes
the best one would be none.

That is; eliminate the Department of Energy and eliminate ALL federal government interference in the energy markets. Let the market determine when and how to replace oil.

Stop this madness!
I want to personally thank Mr. Winegarden for finally exposing the true liberal policy agenda.

This stuff is really scary, especially when you think of the long-term implications of these wrong-headed policies. Implementation of this whole global warming policy would actually result in a cleaner environment. What are they thinking? Can these lunatics not be stopped?

And then this whole health care thing. They actually have many corporations now buying into this craziness, thinking that they might become more competitive with businesses in other industrialized nations if they do not have to underwrite employee health care costs.

Sure, we spend more than any other industrialized nation on health care and have the highest percentage of people not covered by the system. At least we don't have to speak French, my fellow Americans.

And what about health care outcomes? The Commonwealth Fund does a study every five years comparing the number of preventable deaths per 1,000 people in each country as a result of lack of access to timely intervention by the health care system. America ranked 15th of the 19 countries in their study five years ago, a pretty disappointing performance. Their latest study released earlier this month, though, showed we had moved to the top of the 19 industrialized nations with more preventable deaths per 1,000 than any of the rest. In fact, we have almost 70% more preventable deaths than France. We're No. 1 again!

But by far the most insidious of these items on the liberal agenda is this whole CSR movement. I say bring back unfettered pollution, repeal these silly child labor laws, get rid of minimum wages, outlaw workplace safety regulation and the whole lot of this government intervention. If we want to compete with China, we're going to need to get serious about it. These liberals don't like it, they can go back to France.

Hard choices on energy
The days of "cheap" oil are long gone. A new age of alternative fuels is a reality that is just beginning. We, the people have the power to influence that change by our choices. It will require sacrifice initially. Upset about your home energy bills? Install solar power on your roof or lower your thermostat or turn off a light that doesn't need to be on, you don't have to be a tool of the energy companies. I would like to see a President with "vision" to do for energy, what JFK did for rocket science. Imagine 75 million houses with solar panels. How many barrels of oil or train cars of coal would not be needed?

Both parties are bad
Both parties respond to an elite. Neither party is meeting the needs of the average American.

We are facing long recession or depression because of entitlements, illegal immigrants, social spending, bad foreign policy, consumer debt out of control, state and city debt, corporate debt and Federal debt all being funded by foreign nations.

For those who want social spending, fine, do it at the state level where our founders intended it and get it out of the most incompetent, corrupt, wasteful, out of control level of government we have, the federal level.

All the spending liberals and conservatives are calling from from the Federal government, have to realize we are borrowing from our competitors to fund it. All taxes on business are paid by consumers. Those in Congress who say they will tax the wealthy are lying. They are wealthy themselves and they know they have trusts, foundations and tax free securities they can use to protect that wealth.

There is no way to avoid the coming crisis the GAO has warned Congress about for three years in a row and that crisis, triggered probably, if no now, by the boomer retirement will result in a depression and then all the social spending programs including Medicare and Social Security will have to cut benefits or buying power by pumping money into the system because tax revenues will drop like a rock from all sources.

elko.mike: But that's their ASSUMPTION

"If we wait too long, the effects of global warming may have catastrophic effect on the earth."

Which, of course, is a dubious assumption, at best! No proof!

But that's exactly where the warmies start with their "argument."

Ugh! So frustrating. And they wonder why we get so annoyed with thim....


And, of course, I knew you were thinking about gloBULL warming when you were plowing all that snow last week... (Sorry, had to throw that in!)





halD: No! You're wrong AGAIN!
..... but you should be used to that by now.....




jimmyjames
all those things you want already exist in Nigeria. Why not just go there now instead of fighting a losing battle here?

MM: But it may not
ModerateMark writes:
Saturday, January, 12, 2008 12:36 PM


MM: "1. If we wait too long, the effects of global warming may have catastrophic effect on the earth."
But it may not and messing with it may cause problems. Better is to know what we are doing in this regards before taking action. Work the science and then work the policy.

MM: "2. Using Global Warming as a "seed", we can start rebuilding of energy infrastructure to become re-reliant (sp) ie: no oil, in 20-50 years before it become too short in supply"
Shouldn't the country rebuild its energy infrastructure because that is good policy? There would be a couple of questions: a. Should the government guide it through tax or regulation for some higher social purpose? I would say no. b. What should the regulator environment look like? For instance, nuclear is off the table and I think that's a mistake. A wise policy needs to look at the costs and benefits of each and, in my view, keep the government out to the maximum extent.

MM: "3. In 20-50 years we can finally end the Iraq War by raising our middle finger high in the air..."
The Iraq war is about more than energy, but that is a factor to be considered while revamping energy policy.


Global Warming
So all the "evidence" is in? We still don't understand the role solar cosmic rays and the effect it has on our climate. The effect of co2 is also just a theory with many conclusions, no empirical certainty. Al Gore is no more than a snake-oil salesman. Real change happens, not the kind your beloved social-commies have envisioned with their do-all, end-all schemes.
"I just don't want to see us fall backwards"-HRC,
What? Don't believe the "hype", my votes going to the person who believes in reduced government, who believes in lowering taxes, who believes in promoting free enterprise, not tearing it down, who believes we can defeat terrorism, not enable it, who believes we are a Republic, not a "Democracy"(we vote democratically for local, state, and federal representatives, Presidents are elected electorally to check and balance the will of the majority against the minority interest), someone who believes in a Supreme court that is true to the Constitution and what it stands for, not as a tool to "make laws"! How about you?

Robert
ANWR contains at MOST two years supply of oil. Why should we use that up now? We always looked at that and shale as two long term oil supplies in case of a national emergency or war. Why not use up the Arab oil which is easy to get and keep our stuff available. The problem is we use nearly 25% of the worlds oil and we only have 5% of the world's people. All this cheap oil has caused us to consume far more than we can afford. Creating a HUGE security liability. We should be developing alternatives and conserving as a national defense issue. The oil out of Alaska in my opinion should only be for emergencies

I'm stunned... I actually agree with

(awe geeze, this is killing me....) I agree with fabrusto and MM that we should start DRILLING IN ANWAR, and NOW!

(Excuse me while I go slam by head in the door!)

But, so typical of halD, no amount of EVIDENCE will ever be enough, and no expert will satisfy his expectations...

As though, of course, all the warmie's evidence and experts are the standard of proof.. Ha! What a joke is that!




Robert
"McCain and I Have had our diferences. I was in NH and SC in 00 and what I saw of Mr. Bush I did not like. But I have heard McNasty's answer to it and it is satisfactory to me. "

I never heard an explaination LOL

"To bad we cant gget together and chat some politics over some Jack and Coke...It might end up being as swell a session as I am told that Ronaldus the Great and Tip use to have. To POLS knockin down and having a good time"

Anytime in Europe, East coast or South America with planning

Robert

ModerateMark
I'm ritflmao. The whole political spectrum has shifted so far to the left that FDR would be considered far right by today's Lamocrats.

Anne
"You and your gloBULL warmies will refuse to acknowledge the evidence even when summer amounts to about three weeks of poor ice skating and the snowboarding and skiing slopes are open year around!"

This is not my issue. Scientists will get it right but unless someone can come up with the "proof" and lots of irrefutable data I stand with them. As with your silly intelligent design nonsense just prove it with repeatable, testable data. Just because I say the moon is made of green cheese does not mean my idea should carry the same weight and get the same coverage as one that is accompanied by lots of repeatable, testable data

MM: I need to pick a side
for what reason?

My point was exactly that there are any number of variable impacting the climate and we don't understand them all. Pumping CO2 into the environment is a fact, but it doesn't explain the variability in weather patterns. Unless and until we understand the variability, anything we do will make matters worse. What is the justification for taking a course of action that will make matters worse?

Are you on the side of making matters worse or leaving things along until we know what we are doing?

Prevent Socialized Medicine

Rather than create another Federal Bureaucracy with a host of employees and endless new departments and rules and regulations, it should be left in the private sector where they are already equipped to handle new insureds. Current health insurers have the employees, facilities, computers and complex infrastructure to handle the influx of the uninsured. Therefore, it would be more efficient to leave to each geographic area, like the Northeast, their share of uninsureds to absorb into the various insurance companies servicing their area.

Why would the private sector take on this burden? Answer= Significant Tax Incentives. For example, if a company could write off $2.00 for every $1.00 it expends in insuring the uninsured, then it would be motivated to take on the uninsured and provide a policy. Obviously, it depends on a business model and the ultimate tax burden of each company, which would have to be calculated. The beauty of the plan would be to prevent a new bureaucracy and to lessen the amount of money going to the Federal government, which is ultimately wasted for pork projects and/or inefficiently used. The more of our money the Federal Government has the more power it has, and the greater potential for abuse of power.

Even if the insurance companies are not motivated by the tax incentive, a similar plan could be offered to all companies and individuals to lessen their tax burden if they send their money to a non-profit set up to collect the funds and to distribute to pay for insurance policies. It would act more like a private donation to charity than a government program.


Robert
"First big mistake in my view by Obama and that is playing the race card with the Clintons. Are they doint this on purpose or have they just fallen into it?"

Fallen into it because thinking SC voters are mainly african americans and females

"Both of which are this...I have a feeling that MOST african americans WHO VOTE are not these days voting race. I think that is accurate about Hispanic Americans...the reason I say that is that even though "Barak" has gotten the endorsement of the union leadership out in LV those unions which I assure you are heavily hispanic...seem to be receptive to The Misses message."

The only group the "race" card seems to play to any longer are 40+ undereducated, white males. What I am seeing is a LOT of let's rebuild the country and Hillary is best for that to my mind.

"most african americans who vote I think recognize that the Clinton policies were good "domestically"."

heck yes as do most others

"Second...it doesnt in my view help them in the rest of America"

very true. I am told by friends who were up in NH for Kucinch that the Obama crowd was young and fired up but Hated Hillary and didn't hesitate to say so. They think that was another on the street factor helping Hillary

"First misstep I think his campaign has done. BTW the Misses is turning out to maybe have taken control of her campaign. What I see of her in these settings is more as she is "in country"

If I could only tell tales of that night. She is back and has regained her footing

"(PS I am still voting for McCain.lol)"

Your call. He lost all my considerable respect when he bowed and kissed Bush's ring after all the racist nastiness against him and his family in SC

halD: Pardon me... while I LOL...

You and your gloBULL warmies will refuse to acknowledge the evidence even when summer amounts to about three weeks of poor ice skating and the snowboarding and skiing slopes are open year around!








ModerateMark
I wouldn't expect any true conservative to get votes in what amounts to a suburb of MA.

Isn’t moderate just another name for liberal anyway?

Anne
"In other words, silence the skeptics; silence anyone that might have any credibility with the people. And James Spann definitely has credibility with his audience."

LMAO that is how it is supposed to work. It isn't based on opinion it is based on piling fact upon fact, data upon data. I saw the plate techtonics "debate" that is when I realised science was as much a blood sport as any other endeavor LOL. My prof was one of the proponents and got beaten up and ridiculed almost daily. Then WOW just like global warming the perponderence of evidence clearly said continents move. That is about the point that the global warming is now. What I don't understand is why does the right have this vested interest in it? Maybe just another diversion to fire up its base? God, guns, gays, immigration and global warming

What to do about variability?
Dr. W Edwards Deming reminds us that it is normal for systems to fluctuate; this would include weather and economic systems. Tampering is the word Dr. Deming used for changing a system without understanding its variability. Tampering always increases variability and makes systems less stable. Why do we wish to tamper with the environment and the economy? A better policy is to leave them alone -- that's especially true for the government.

Mr. Winegarden
Although I sympathize with your column and agree with most of it you do have one thing wrong. Currently the Lamocrat’s solution for AGW is a massive tax increase and restrictions on autos and appliances. That is their solution for every problem, taxes and loss of freedom.

The Republicans solution is cap and trade, otherwise known as winners and losers. Almost all of the politicians have signed onto this scam. You just don’t hear the Republicans talking about it too often. Thompson is the ONLY candidate who has spoke out and said that AGW is a scam.

And that is the bottom line. More and more scientists have came out and attacked the scam for what it is, a fraudulent scheme to enrich a select few players and provide pabulum for the anarcho-eco-idiots. This scam has been exposed enough now that anyone advocating it should be arrested and prosecuted as a bunco artist.

Mortgage crisis
Low interest rates fueled a buying frenzy in the housing sector that most people thought would never end. Most of the same people choose to ignore economics 101, especially Wall St. While my heart goes out to those facing foreclosure, it isn't the governments(really, taxpayers) role to bail you out, you made the poor choice, you must suffer the consequences. Life is a learning experience right? Educating yourself before making life-changing decisions is part of learning isn't it? What part of adjustable-rate didn't make sense? What part of 3-5 years wasn't clear? Did you really think that you could afford a $600,000 home on less than $150,000 a year? Things will get back to "normal" quicker if Economics 101 is allowed to play out, rather than the Government "fixing it" as they have proposed.

Capital Formation
The capital formed during the latter part of the 19th century and early 20th century was the capital that made the 20th century, the "American Century", and gave the American people the highest living standard in the world

Now, that capital has been squandered by the Marxism of the Democrat party, and replaced by debt.

MediocreMark: Sorry! I know you HATE

when this happens... but try to get someone who can understand this and read it to you.

(MM is now hopefully thinking... "Ummm, why haven't I thought of that before...????")



USMC Lt.
"Chicago Barry Is No Innocent Waif
Still more proof that Obama is no angel. Read the entire transcript, or, if you're a Rush 24/7 member like me, listen to it at the link below."

LMAO that explains a lot LMAO. 24/7 from the guy who compared a wounded soldier to a suicide bomber. Don't forget the calling of Iraq veterans and serving soldiers "phony soldiers". Now I am beginning to wonder if you indeed are: "USMC Lt." most officers and certainly most marine officers always put the troops first

New Evidence: Part 3
“The coolings dropped average temperatures in the North Atlantic region within 200 years or less. They stayed cold for several hundred years, then warmed again as quickly as they cooled, he said. The most recent of these cooling cycles might prove to be the Little Ice Age, which began sometime around 1100 A.D. and peaked a few hundred years later.

“During the Little Ice Age, glaciers in the Alps, Alaska, New Zealand and Sweden advanced well beyond their present limits, according to Ice Ages, a book by John and Katherine Imbrie. Snow blanketed Ethiopia's high mountains, where it is now unknown. Global climate was generally 2oF cooler than now. Europe suffered severe winters, as did North American colonists. The legendary winter Washington camped at Valley Forge was mild compared to others around the same time. To the north, New York harbor was frozen solid and people could walk from Staten Island to Manhattan.”

“Bond's research was supported by the National Science Foundation and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.”

New Evidence: Part 2

"’If this is indeed a regular climate rhythm, it is still going on today,’ Bond said. ‘By understanding what causes these sudden climate change cycles, we could more reliably predict how the earth's climate system could shift in the near future. Because we now think that climate flips can occur on an earth relatively free of ice, the odds of a future climate jolt could be higher than we thought.’

"The evidence is growing that climate in the post-ice age world is not as stable and is more variable than once thought," Bond said at an AGU session highlighting abrupt climate change during the Holocene era--the past 10,500 years after the last ice age ended and human civilization began to flourish.

"’The abrupt coolings in the Holocene are not as great as those that occurred during the ice ages, but still might be significant enough to cause severe winters, agricultural disruptions, and other adverse impacts on people.’

‘The abrupt coolings occurred within 200 years, based on the layers of rock fragments that had been transported by glacial icebergs and sea ice to the North Atlantic, deposited on the seafloor and buried by subsequent sediments. At times of coolings, the amounts of rock fragments doubled or tripled in the ocean sediments. Also, different types of fragments suddenly appeared, indicating an increase in ice from several sources, including Iceland and perhaps Greenland, northern Canada and Svalbard, an island in the “Arctic Ocean. The regularly spaced layers of ice-delivered debris showed that the amount of floating ice increased suddenly every 1,000 to 3,000 years. Bond dated the peaks of ice-delivered debris at about 12,300; 10,800; 8,000; 5,700; 3,900; 2,750 and 800 years ago.


New Evidence: Part 1

Earth's Natural Cooling Cycle

Supported by the National Science Foundation and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

“New evidence from deep-sea cores shows that the earth's climate cools significantly and abruptly in a naturally occurring 1,000- to 3,000-year cycle, a scientist at Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory reported recently.

“The evidence shows that abrupt coolings occurred not only during the ice ages, but also during the current warmer period--long after most ice sheets disappeared and conditions on earth more closely resembled today's. Regularly spaced layers of rocky fragments in ocean sediments revealed the rapid cooling cycle, the most recent yet discovered. The findings were reported at the American Geophysical Union's fall meeting in San Francisco by Gerard Bond, a paleoclimatologist at Lamont-Doherty, Columbia's earth sciences research institute in Palisades, N.Y.

The discovery of warming and cooling cycles in the modern era adds a new factor in predicting future global climate change. And it throws new light on historical events, such as the Little Ice Age, a cold spell that gripped the world several hundred years ago. It may even have some bearing on the Neolithic hunter called the Ice Man, whose 5,200-year-old frozen remains were discovered recently in the Alps.

Wayne
"CSR activists have vilified companies such as Wal-Mart for not providing health insurance for their employees."

This is really not true at all. The problem with Wal-Mart and so many of the other examples you use is that those companies are actually shifting the cost of healthcare to the state so that the taxpayer must pay the cost thru increased medicaid and other social payments. Looking at this on its face would indicate that companies such as Wal-Mart would welcome a national healthcare program of some type. Or if they did oppose healthcare, it would be because it makes them comparable to say Target or CostCo which are responsible employeers

" In so doing, the CSR activists blame the health care problems of the country on a lack of health insurance availability – as opposed to real problems such as over-zealous health care litigation and adverse incentives due to the third-party payer system."

Not true yet again. The cost is in increased administration costs creating new "businesses" that benefit no one but increase costs -- very inefficient.


"By blaming the health care problems on Corporate America, the CSR activists help enable the political calls for universal health care and other “solutions” that socialized medicine will allegedly bring. "

Business is a victim and you know it. This is a complete red herring. Not "allegedly", we have too many examples that some form of universal healthcare works and provides better care at much lower cost.

Carbon Politics
Carbon politics (environmentalism), properly so-called, is merely the organized power of rich Democrats, like Al Gore, Ted Turner, John Edwards, the Sierra Club class, to oppress and lower the living standard of the common people.

good vs. evil
How can anyone deny that there is a connection between the little ice age 13,000 years ago and what is happening today? How is that not relevant. Is there not a chance that the earth goes through change? An "inconvienent truth" is that there is a connection to our climate change and solar cosmic energy, always has been always will be, it's only the "eco-elites" that deny this connection. Social engineering, i.e. good vs. evil, is the mantra of the group of "social elites" who think they know best how to take care of you. Who pays for all of the entitlements that this group wants to force upon us all? Corporations? The wealthy? The poor? It is a zero-sum game. On Jan. 1, 2008 the minimum wage in California is $8@hour, it's just a matter of time before this wage increase begins to trickle down into the economy, higher food prices, higher un-employment, businesses closing, lower tax-revenues. Who suffers the most? Typically, the poorest, in terms of buying power and employment, but, the minimum was raised to help them, what's going on here? How can this possibly be? Oh, did I mention, Democrats control California Politics! Wake-up people, or is it sheeple?

Global warming and CSR
Republicans have had the White House and the Congress until 2006, but the conservatives have not been in charge, so blaming "conservative" Republicans in not fair. The Republicans in Congress spent like drunken Democrats (sailors spend only their own money-the Congress spent our money, not their money). If the Democrats keep the Congress and gain the White House, you haven't seen anything on spending so far.
What Socialist state has solved the problems of unemployment, health care or any other social or economic problem.
Some seem to believe that actions have no consequences, and believe that taxes and regulations will not effect behavior. They believe in a static system and not a dynamic one. For example, they think doubling taxes will double receipts, but it never has and never will. The increased taxes will cause changes in behavior so that the receipts will be less than anticipated.
Global warming is probably real and human activity probably has something to do it. But does anyone believe that all 6.5 billion people on the planet will go along with any scheme at all, much less one that interferes with their economic development? We haven't agreed on anything else. And what about the costs of such efforts? Could they possibly really work?
Einstein suggested that insanity consisted of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Donald W. Bales

Experts Disagree with Global Warming

By Gary Palmer
http://www.freedom.org/news/200701/30/palmer.phtml

"James Spann, chief meteorologist at ABC 33/40 in Birmingham, has taken strong exception to the fear-mongering being done by those who believe human activity is the primary cause of global warming. He is particularly upset with Heidi Cullen, the Weather Channel's resident expert on global warming......

"In other words, silence the skeptics; silence anyone that might have any credibility with the people. And James Spann definitely has credibility with his audience."

AND, the experts are now agreeing that we're about to start a cycle of "global COOLING."

Uh oh! Now I'll be able to wear my fur more often!!!! Can hardly wait! :-)


Now what will algore do? Well, he'll just have to come up with another money making scam!



Folks
Does it mean anything that Gore won his Nobel prize for contributing to Peace and not for Science?

BTW....
I would be careful using Wikipedia as a source. Anybody can write in anything on that site. Furthermore, according to CNN (that should make you happy), in terms of who actually put pen to paper, it was some Clinton-appointed ambassador who physically signed the thing. But he was signing it in Clinton's stead, so there's not much difference.

And once again, the Senate voted it Dead On Arrival by 98-0 before he could even send it over, because they knew it was a pig from the getgo.

Again, deal with it.

Cave Bear: Mediocre Mark is OFTEN

mistaken about what he posts...

Actually, he's usually flat out wrong!

We just kind of ignore him... :-)



Excuse me?
Um, Mark, you missed something. I didn't mention Gore at all in that previous post. In fact, here is the COMPLETE quote of what I wrote, with the part you conveniently omitted put back in:

"Also, another "inconvenient truth" you AGW "troothers" don't want to hear about is that your boy Clinton DID sign the Kyoto treaty. Only problem was that the Senate, before the Slickster ever had a chance to send it over for ratification, sent him a "sense of the Senate" resolution that stated Kyoto would be DOA if submitted to them. And the vote was 98-0."

You see Gore's name here anywhere? Clinton, yes. Gore, no. Don't try clumsy straw men with me, boy. You WILL lose. Consider yourself Bear Slapped(tm).

So, Clinton DID sign Kyoto. The Senate told him "not happening", and this was a Senate with a lot of the same lefties that are in it now. What does that tell you?

"moderatemark"
OK, try this on for size (not that it will do any good), vis a vis the Sun. It started a few years ago when a couple of Danish scientists noted a direct correlation between solar energy output and the mean temperature of the Earth.

Then NASA discovers that the other planets in the Solar System, even far-off now-a-non-planet Pluto are warmer than they should be.

And never mind the fact that the science is by no means settled on AGW, despite Al Gore's claims to the contrary. There is still a majority of those who are entitled to an opinion on the matter (the scientists) who say it's either an outright crock, or that at the least there is more going on here than just increased CO2 levels.

I also found it interesting that Kyoto, which was actually written in Madrid, was produced after "six weeks of yelling and screaming" (CBS News' words, not mine). Yelling and screaming? Real scientists, no matter how much they may disagree with each other, do not "yell and scream" at each other. On the other hand, that is the average lefty moonbat's biggest stock in trade.

Deal with it.

Continued
Clearly they knew something poor Lilly did not. Most likely it was that Kyoto, which had been specifically crafted to hand-grenade the western economies, would indeed trash ours and all who voted for it would find themselves looking for work in short order. Since the most important thing to any pol is getting re-elected, none of the Senators were willing to cut their own throats in such a way, "global warming" be damned.

And Lilly, we haven't had "laissez-faire" capitalism in this country for a hundred years. Government regulations permiate every aspect of business in this country. Ask anyone who runs one if you doubt this. But whether it's business, civil "rights" or any other leftist hot-button arena, no matter what is done, it's never enough for you people.

LILLY

.....Lead by example ...sell all your possessions and move into a cave ...

...Q ...What is the first thing a newly elected gay President would do after being sworn in? ...

...A ...Change the drapes in the Oval Office ...

.....COLOSSUS

Lilly = idiot
Using "Newsweak" as a source is rather like citing Jack Kevorkian as an authority on long-term medical care.

If you really want to know what's going on vis a vis "global warming", check out climateaudit.org. It's extremely technical, and a lot of time is spent arguing about minutiae, but the gist of it all is that while there is something going on, it's a lot more about politics than science.

Also, another "inconvenient truth" you AGW "troothers" don't want to hear about is that your boy Clinton DID sign the Kyoto treaty. Only problem was that the Senate, before the Slickster ever had a chance to send it over for ratification, sent him a "sense of the Senate" resolution that stated Kyoto would be DOA if submitted to them. And the vote was 98-0.

Where were you
when Iraq was shooting at our military planes patrolling the no-fly zone after the first Iraq War--Desert Storm? If that wasn't a declaration of war on the United States, I don't know what a country has to do. It's too bad we had to wait for Hussein to deny access to his supposedly nonexistent weapons of mass destruction in order to invade!

The problem is people are jealous of those with more. It's an age-old condition that leftists have every intention of exploiting for their own purpose. Why is it that every country that uses socialism as a basis for providing services ends up having to cut back on those services? Why is it that medical services were not so expensive nor impersonal in the days before the need for medical malpractice insurance? The same human instincts that whine "it's not fair" or "I deserve that too" are the ones that make so many people victims of their own greed by falling for scams. The oft-cited CEO who receives an obscene amount of money to leave a corporation is a fine example of greed, but so is the politician that claims government can fix everything and that people don't have to work for it.

The REAL LIST
to look out for is as follows:
HRC-BILLARY
OMO-BAMA
JE-HAIR MAN
RUDARY
MITTARY
HUCKARY
Last but not least McQuack!
All of these people will be picking all of our pockets and not just for cooling the earth, or CSR!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!





JMO51 writes:
The 90's were pretty good. We had a moderate President (Bill Clinton)

Sorry, but this prez was too busy handing out oval rug burns to know what was going on. When he came up for air and found out people were looking at him, he just started wagging the dog. So I don't think moderate is the right word.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!



CSR
Teehall. it is CSR: Corporate Social Responsibility. You are confused.

JMO51
Let's see if I understand you correctly -

"poison in our pet food, lead in our children's toys, a mortgage crisis due to poor regulation of the industry, Katrina, etc.

... as a whole they demonstrate clearly what you get when you put Conservative Republicans in charge."

Please give the readers here the exact bill, regulation, law, treaty, etc. that was crafted by the Republicans post Clinton that caused the above listed problems.

Throughout your post you decry the lack of regulation - while most of us would agree that the absence of regulation and red tape is preferred, and that the growth of our economy is dependant upon less government intrusion as is possible (it's called Conservatism).

By the way, you might want to revisit your first paragraph ... you have a great deal of B.S. there that you cannot defend to anyone other than the totally uneducated!













CO2 emissions don't show the earth
is warming. Actually, the surface is warming faster than the atmospehre, which is why cosmologists and astronomers see the sun as the cause of global and solar system warming.

That Venus or any planet suffers from "greenhouse gasses" warming is actually a theory not proven anywhere.

Pluto's warming and Saturn's warming are surely not do to car exhaust or coal-fired power plants.

And since all the planets and moons are warming, I think there is a pattern that explains why the earth is warming.

And, really, who cares? The earth has been warmer. The ancient Greek and Roman fertility rites were conducted in Feb., their spring. The earth has been so warm that it had no polar ice caps at all. In the Cretaceas period, there were no ice caps, no ozone layers, most of the N. Am. continent was a desert surrounded an inland sea in our current SW, yet the dinosaurs thrived.

I live near a barrier island that is 18" above sea level and no on there can detect any ocean-level rising. And although it is relatively warm here in NJ, ski resorts have had the best and deepest snows in years. IT'S CALLED WEATHER.

May I
Suggest no one read Newsweek and suck on a bong at the same time.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!



Wayne, It is CFR, Not CSR
Wayne identifies the "movement" as CSR but doesn't name names, because .........? He also uses CSR in a manner that implies an entity. The CFR, Council on Foreign Relations, is a real thing that but few of us are aware of what it is doing. Do you think invading Iraq was a thought process devised by the great Jorge Bush? How better to keep the engine of commerce going by insuring that it continued to get greased by oil? Or was it his compassionate conservative idea to save the chillrun of Iraq from the evil empire leader? Nearly all of our politicians help to drive, assist, participate, accept money from, or push the credit and housing market schemes. No, who or what makes the rules that govern lending practices? I don't. There is an older than dirt rule of thumb that goes -- don't get into a house debt greater than 1/4 of your income.

They had fireworks at JFK's
inaugarul. I don't think fireworks are a Rep. interest group.

Dems. are offering:
a serious woman candidate whose experience is mostly vicarious, through her husband, only the second pres. ever to be impeached. She spent years in the White House avoiding Cong. aubpoenas, altho' a lawyer and officer of the court. She has a lot of money for campaigning and most of the standard Dem. pols. behind her, from many IOUs she has accumulated donating her PAC money to and giving speeches for. Her big ideas are still 19th C. socialist ideas of gov't assumption of the means of production and 19th C. ideas of Keynsian gov't spending. Nothing new here, and her campaign would likely be a referendum on her husband's administrations.

Obama is a 2-term IL legislator who mostly voted "present" during his tenure. He has a murky Muslim education background as a child in Indonesia and has an unfinished Sen. term where he has sponsored nothing notable. Now, because of campaigning, he can't even show up in the Senate to vote present. His ec. and foreign policies vary very little from Clinton's, which are all 19th C. socialist ideas.

Edwards is a one-term Senator who made a fortune suing drs. and hospitals under the claim that infant delivery causes cerebral palsy, a lie. His biggest idea is to give every union whatever it wants from taxpayers, who are nearly 90% non-union.

I cannot imagine what any of them would offer the Am. electorat if pres. except higher taxes, more gov't spending, lower employment, military humiliation in the Middle East, more enviro. influence to keep us energy deprived domestically, control of all healthcare, the entire left wing agenda from homosexuals to unions, and the inability to address Soc. Sec. and Medicare which are train wrecks waiting to ruin the US ec. (Bush at least tried to attack SS, but neither party wanted to go there.)

To Sgt Relic
If social responsibility is not the job of business, and social responsibility is not the job of government, and individuals are in many instances unequipped for social responsibility, who protects the people? Bleating the same old cliches about the Nanny State and "individual responsibility" won't answer that question.

When business finds expedience in dumping toxic waste into the earth and that toxic waste is used as the site of a housing development where, in a few years, the incidence of childhood leukemia skyrockets, is that just tough luck for those children? Do you expect the individual homeowner to run soil tests? They can't do that.

When business finds expedience in selling or importing seafood full of toxins or toys full of lead and people are sickened or killed, is that just tough luck for those people? Do you expect the individual consumer to have a lab in his home so he can check contamination levels? The "individual responsibility" argument becomes ridiculous: individuals can't possibly protect themselves against business.

You people want laissez-f******-faire for business, no government regulation, party time for the CEOs, and the people can go to hell. And, yes, a free market may eventually correct some imbalance, but only after PEOPLE have been hurt.


The Greed Factor (Part II)
So here we have yet another townhall article complaining about "the liberal agenda" which is an agenda to protect the interests of the people of this country. Republican interests (which are those of business and not of the people) have been in the ascendancy now since 1980---I remember fireworks in the sky over Washington DC in celebration of Reagan's inaugural---and since then the protections of the middle class have steadily evaporated.

Workers who have worked for thirty years with the promise of a retirement annuity have been called in and told that there will be no annuity. Workers still on the job have been told not to take sick or vacation days if they expect their job to be there when they get back. Jobs have been outsourced. Unions are on life-support. The "Ownership Society" initiative to create more homeowners has backfired hideously with the home loan fiasco. Health care, run by business, is a national disgrace. Business is allowed to regulate itself and to spew filth into our air, earth, and water. And, routinely, we are told that taking measures in the interest of PEOPLE is a Socialist or Communist plot. Meanwhile our prosperity becomes more concentrated among the already-wealthy, and it becomes clear that the GOP's intention is not to serve the middle class.

So I pray that we will not have another Republican administration because I doubt that our nation can survive much more of such treatment. Conservatives describe business as the engine that drives us, but in other ways it is like a cancer that eats us from within.

90's were pretty good
The 90's were pretty good. We had a moderate President (Bill Clinton) and had terrific growth, high employment, free trade and a much better standing in the world. Now we are a debtor nation, the US dollar is worth less than the canadian dollar, Gas is at an all time high.

The divide between the haves and the have nots is wider than it has ever been since the 1920's. We also have poison in our pet food, lead in our children's toys, a mortage crisis due to poor regulation of the industry, Katrina,etc.

Sure some of these things can be partially attributed to world events but taken as a whole they demonstrate clearly what you get when you put Conservative Republicans in charge.

It sure is not what we were promised when we were told asked as a nation to embrace far right principles.

As to corporations, they need the govenment to keep them out of trouble like a small child needs a parent to set limits. Everytime we have an absence of regulation we end up with a crisis.

Remember the S & L crisis and then it is conservatives who have no problem providing corporate welfare to save corporations from themselves. Conservatives still haven't learned the lessons from the 1920's. American needs its free market system and the free market system needs regulation. It is this partnership that make America great. By the way many responsible CEO's welcome the idea of a single payer universal health care system because they believe it is to their advantage.



I hadn't been aware
Of the Keynes quote, but it is highly apropos.

The "CSR" movement is simply another manifestation of the alacrity with which "progressives", who claim to be "reality-based", have rejected rationalism from the end of the First World War on. Instead, they embraced a potpourri of Eastern mysticism, "feel-good" pop psychology, and (by the 1960s) heavily drug-induced "revolutionary theology", culminating in their present mindset; Everything In The World is Wrong, And It's All Western Democratic Civilization's Fault!

The Persian king Xerxes I, and Plato, would be so proud of them. Since both men rejected the entire concept of democracy, and of the progress of civilization, as contrary to the "natural order" of rule by an "enlightened elite'", which drew its "enlightenment" for the most part from mystical sources. I am not so sure that Leonidas of Sparta, or Aristotle, who taught those two worthies separate but complementary lessons that they failed to absorb, would be so impressed with the present lot.

In "Atlas Shrugged", Ayn Rand defined the two present sorts of mystically-inclined types as the "mystics of spirit" and the "mystics of muscle". Xerxes represents the latter, Plato the former. Both types are unfortunately well represented in the "progressive movement" today, with the CSR crowd falling into the "muscle" category. ("Do it our way or else!")

What all of these mystics lack is one single, solitary piece of incontrovertible (and non-fabricated) evidence that they are factually correct. Not that that worries them.

After all, they have The Revealed Truth. And the Truth will give them the power that, up to now, logic (on the part of others) has denied them.

So, who needs logic, anyway?

It just gets in the way.


cheers

eon

The Greed Factor (Part I)
I have at hand the August 13 issue of Newsweek with its cover feature "Global Warming Is a Hoax---Or So Claim Well-funded Naysayers Who Still Reject the Overwhelming Evidence of Climate Change---Inside the Denial Machine". Articles give specific information about Corporate America's choreographed program to create ridicule and doubt around global warming. Scientists were offered large sums to write articles that would confuse citizens and persuade them that global warming was not to be taken seriously. Some accepted the offer.

As evidence has mounted that GW is to be taken seriously, and as the elections loom and Democratic candidates have not disappeared, recently we have begun to hear the matter stated more clearly: Corporate America's problem isn't that global warming is a joke, but rather that addressing it will cut into profits. So now the scare tactics are being rolled out. It's not that CA might not be able to pay its CEO $500 million and provide Skyboxes to all executives---it's that the middle class will lose jobs and stock returns.

Except that the guys with the Skyboxes have already sent the jobs to Asia and stocks are rapidly moving into the toilet.

THE FOX IS WRONG: Global Warming
I got this on the tip line. Interesting video.

WATCH VIDEO

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/the-fox-is-wrong-g lobal-warming

Target v. Walmart

Walmart hires minorites, Target doesn't.
Walmart provides employee uniforms, Target
forces employees to purchase their own red shirts.
Walmart makes a pretense to purchase American-made, Target doesn't.

Why, exactly, is Target any better than Walmart?

Why, exactly?

Don't forget Romney-Care Mandate.....

Anyone who doesn't include Mitt Romney amongst the Democrats needs to see the Mass State Income Tax booklet that just came out.

In the People's Republic of Massachusetts, if you don't purchase health insurance (including $20 abortions) then you get fined. Forget Health Savings Accounts, forget cost containment, forget it all -- and the bare-boned $100/month policy is now over $300 -- still bare-boned (except quite liberal on abortion coverage)....

Hillary has a better idea than Mitt on this one.
And this, alone, is enough to cost him the Presidency....

In Denial
Everytime my son comes over from across the state where he works to visit and my husband and I have to go shop, my husband always teases him by saying we're going to go to the Walmart up the street. Of course, my son goes ballistic over just the mention of Walmart. When he was at the university taking classes in his major, marketing, the professors almost always brought up Walmart as the worst of the worst corporaitons for their lack of social responsibility to their employees and the community, it's total lack of business ethics.I heard about Walmart first in his junior year, and then even more so in his senior year, and by the time he graduated, I had shame written on my forehead anytime he saw me and I had been to a Walmart since the last time he saw me.

I know (from my son) how bad they are and I don't want to support them, so I am doing my best to move over to Target, but they ARE more expensive, but, well, it's the right thing to do for the right cause, and maybe if enough people move on over to Target, then maybe Walmart will hear our united statement. Well, have a super Saturday, Denial.

Jason loves the Kool-Aid
Those on the right live in the real world, and that is indeed a very different world than Lefty-land:

In the real world, we have been in a global cooling trend since 1998. In the real world, global warming has been observed on other planets. In the real world, climate change is the result of fluctuations in the sun's solar energy and variations in the Earth's orbit. In the real world, increased atmospheric CO2 aids plant growth, which benefits animals and humans alike. In the real world, bureaucratic regulations impose massive costs on the health system that consumers ultimately pay. Calling the current wildly over-regulated health system a "free market" is like calling the turkey roasting in your oven "free".

In the real world, people have more knowledge of their own situation and can make better decisions about their own lives than a self-interested bureaucrat in Washington D.C. In the real world, free markets offer people vast choices which they are free to pick and choose from to maximize their well-being. In the real world, coerced "solutions" from power-hungry politicians serve the politicians' interest. In the real world, average people were better off in West Germany than East Germany, South Korea over North Korea, and Bermuda over Cuba.

In Denial
Those on the right must live on another world. They will deny we have a global warming problem or a health care crises. Or they will advocate free market solutions to such pressing social problems. Then they scare us into believing that any mandatory solutions to such pressing problems will have negative consequences for economic growth and job creation. In the meantime the rich get richer, the corporations make even higher profits they are reluctant to share with workers, or move their businesses to India or China. The CSR Movement makes corporations aware of the negative consequences they are having on jobs, the environment, and health care. This way they become part of the solution not part of the problem. You would think that after 12 years of governance, the right-wingers would realize their free market solutions are not working. The American electorate will ultimately decide who is right. Jay.
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