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Thursday, August 14, 2008
Victor Davis Hanson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Brave Old World
by Victor Davis Hanson
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Russia invades Georgia. China jails dissidents. China and India pollute at levels previously unimaginable. Gulf monarchies make trillions from jacked-up oil prices. Islamic terrorists keep car bombing. Meanwhile, Europe offers moral lectures, while Japan and South Korea shrug and watch -- all in a globalized world that tunes into the Olympics each night from Beijing.

"Citizens of the world" were supposed to share, in relative harmony, our new "Planet Earth," which was to have followed from an interconnected system of free trade, instantaneous electronic communications, civilized diplomacy and shared consumer capitalism.

But was that ever quite true?

In reality, to the extent globalism worked, it followed from three unspoken assumptions:

First, the U.S. economy would keep importing goods from abroad to drive international economic growth.

Second, the U.S. military would keep the sea-lanes open, and trade and travel protected. After the past destruction of fascism and global communism, the Americans, as global sheriff, would continue to deal with the occasional menace like a Muammar al-Gaddafi, Slobodan Milosevic, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-il or the Taliban.

Third, America would ignore ankle-biting allies and remain engaged with the world -- like a good, nurturing mom who at times must put up with the petulance of dependent teenagers.

But there have been a number of indications recently that globalization may soon lose its American parent, who is tiring, both materially and psychologically.

The United States may be the most free, stable and meritocratic nation in the world, but its resources and patience are not unlimited. Currently, it pays more than a half trillion dollars per year to import $115-a-barrel oil that is often pumped at a cost of about $5.

The Chinese, Japanese and Europeans hold trillions of dollars in U.S. bonds -- the result of massive trade deficits. The American dollar is at historic lows. We are piling up staggering national debt. Over 12 million live here illegally and freely transfer more than $50 billion annually to Mexico and Latin America.

Our military, after deposing Milosevic, the Taliban and Saddam, is tired. And Americans are increasingly becoming more sensitive to the cheap criticism of global moralists.

But as the United States turns ever so slightly inward, the new globalized world will revert to a far poorer -- and more dangerous -- place.

Liberals like presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama speak out against new free trade agreements and want existing accords like NAFTA readjusted. More and more Americans are furious at the costs of illegal immigration -- and are moving to stop it. The foreign remittances that help prop up Mexico and Latin America are threatened by any change in America's immigration attitude.

Meanwhile, the hypocrisy becomes harder to take. After all, it is easy for self-appointed global moralists to complain that terrorists don’t enjoy Miranda rights at Guantanamo, but it would be hard to do much about the Russian military invading Georgia's democracy and bombing its cities.

Al Gore crisscrosses the country, pontificating about Americans’ carbon footprints. But he could do far better to fly to China to convince them not to open 500 new coal-burning power plants.

It has been chic to chant "No blood for oil" about Iraq's petroleum -- petroleum that, in fact, is now administered by a constitutional republic. But such sloganeering would be better directed at China's sweetheart oil deals with Sudan that enable the mass murdering in Darfur.

Due to climbing prices and high government taxes, gasoline consumption is declining in the West, but its use is rising in other places, where it is either untaxed or subsidized.

So, what a richer but more critical world has forgotten is that in large part America was the model, not the villain -- and that postwar globalization was always a form of engaged Americanization that enriched and protected billions.

Yet globalization, in all its manifestations, will run out of steam the moment we tire of fueling it, as the world returns instead to the mindset of the 1930s -- with protectionist tariffs; weak, disarmed democracies; an isolationist America; predatory dictatorships; and a demoralized gloom-and-doom Western elite.

If America adopts the protectionist trade policies of Japan or China, global profits plummet. If our armed forces follow the European lead of demilitarization and inaction, rogue states advance. If we were to treat the environment as do China and India, the world would become quickly a lost cause

If we flee Iraq and call off the war on terror, Islamic jihadists will regroup, not disband. And when the Russians attack the next democracy, they won't listen to the United Nations, the European Union or Michael Moore.

Brace yourself -- we may be on our way back to an old world, where the strong do as they will, and the weak suffer as they must.

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About The Author
Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and a recipient of the 2007 National Humanities Medal.

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Note Obama-Chamberlai
And that brings us to a final point: can you imagine the press reaction if a Republican president (or even a candidate) hid from direct questioning from the media for five days during an acute international crisis? The media is still too enamored of The One to mention it, but Obama’s reclusiveness is odd in the extreme and deeply troubling. Isn’t he capable of directly engaging the American people except via a stream of ever-migrating written statements prepared by his gang of 300 advisors? It really is time for Barack Obama to step out from behind the palm trees and start answering tough questions (e.g. Why did you equate victim and victimizer as your first reaction? What precisely would you do now?). It is not becoming of a presidential nominee to go to the movies while war erupts and our international credibility teeters on the brink of utter collapse. It’s certainly not inspiring confidence in his ability to navigate during an international crisis. Voters should take note.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/202 72

Two Points
It is long past time to demand the Europe take responsibility for its own defense. The invasion by Russia into Georgia is just one example of a Europe that is at the mercy of whatever aggressive force decides to have its way in that region.

Secondly, a large portion of the world is now becoming prosperous as a result of the trade and assistance they have received from the United States. We can no longer act as the world's bank account. Those nations that wish to continue to do business with the U.S. need to become our partners. We can no longer tolerate their disproportionate restrictions on trade.

Mr. Hanson is quite correct, we the people are becomming quite weary from holding the hand of the rest of the world as they first bite our ankles but then go for something more vital.

Halt !!

Obama has warned Putin not to invade the rest of the world unless he inflates his tank treads.

Just Wondering.
Let's see, about 16 million Americans served in our military during WWII -- not counting the Merchant Marine, WASPs, and various others. Also not counting the millions of Americans sent around the world, keeping the peace as best they could, since. The largest percentage of these served in Europe.

Does anyone in their right mind think we can find even a million to go rescue the Europeans, again?

If I were a European, I'd be very worried. I'd certainly not have any children.

Well, maybe it's OK. Maybe nuclear weapons can solve the manpower problem, while at the same time nuclear weapons might also solve the mankind problem.

These "maybe" questions will be answered, if we just elect Obama president, while keeping the same type Congress. Do you think?

Or maybe we won't be able to solve the problem, whatever we do.

Folks like Mr. Hanson can see it coming, as indicated by this article: "We 'may be' on our way back to an old world...."

Well, I'm old, I'm leaving here soon. Good luck.

A dire warning from VDH
If O'Vomit and the Democraps policies are implemented we will have another worldwide depression and probably WWIII for real.

Its not 3:00 am, its 6:00 pm and the lights are about to go out.

It never left!
A large number of people around the world have been living a fool's dream ever since the USSR imploded. The old world never left, it just took a breather while the US exhausted itself playing world cop.

Both Russia and China have always been hegemonic powers whenever they could be. Russia is once more punishing any "near abroad" state that acts uppity and China is exerting its economic power all over the globe.

We are living in an era of shifting power as the US retreats from its earlier semi-imperial stance, Islam is resurgent, Europe thinks it has "soft power", and the rest of the world continues with the traditional mini-wars between small states.

"The End of History" has not yet occured.

We are Americans. Not Georgians.
Of course the old world never ceased to exist.

Why should it?

It is rooted in nationalism, a powerful force.

We had our Monroe Doctrine where we told the European powers at that time to keep their noses out of the Americas...our hemisphere, our sphere of influence.

Yet today some neocons are outraged that Russia would object to our sticking our noses into areas in which historically have been their sphere of influence.

We establish military alliances with, and place military installations in, former Soviet states that border Russia itself.

How could we be so arrogant as to think it would not lead to a confrontation at some point...especially with a Saakashvili contriving to bring precisely that about?

We need to make a cold assessment of just what does constitute our security interests(and Georgia most assuredly does not), and avoid this idiotic blather emanating from John McCain that "we are all Georgians now"(which reminds me of the radical Islamists who during the American siege of Falluja declared "we are all Fallujans now."




I see the Left
Spouting moral equivalence applauding the move.

Jerabaub
Yeah, but. But--the Monroe doctrine has been ignored in the proxy wars fought during the Cold War, starting with the Bay of Pigs incident in Cuba with Kennedy.

And before you counter with Korea and Vietnam...well, while I'm not sure, I think South Korea asked us for help. I know the French were getting summarily beaten in their colony in Vietnam, and asked us to step in and help.

We tend to not go where we're not wanted by the people.

Honestly, I think we need to remember that. We've brought most of the troops stationed in Europe since WWII home. It may be time to bring home all peacekeeping forces in other areas--like South Korea, et.al.--home, as well.

I have a feeling that we, as a nation, will need the rest and the break before another world-wide shooting war breaks out. Especially since, this time, we can't count on European allies. That takes testicular fortitude that Europe--with the possible exception of the countries that Russia is going to re-annex, and Britain--simply no longer has.

I've been blogging about the Russia/Georgia situation for a few days, now. I'm not sure I see any end in sight, any more than the Georgians do.

http://theantisoma.blogspot.com/

I have never understood
why the countries of the world, especially the Islamics, want to destroy America.

Sure I can understand their envy, but none of them stand a chance at bettering themselves without us.

How will China sell all its cheap goods without a United States? If they can't sell their goods, all their people will be unemployed and rampant poverty will return. If the U.S. goes under, how will OPEC sell their oil? The whole thing makes as much sense as it would if Wal-Mart added anthrax powder to all of their merchandise to try and kill off all their customers. How would Wal-Mart survive without its customers? How will the nations of the world survive without their customers? The U.S. is the world's biggest customer. Even just the little bit that Americans have cut back on their fuel consumption within the past couple of months has caused the price of oil to drop. Imagine if there was no U.S. at all.

Only someone who is certifiably insane sets out to kill off their own customers.

They really are all insane, and in the end they will cut their own throats.

I'm all for it!
Let's close the doors & lock the gates.To hell w/ the rest of the world for a couple of decades,let's see how you fools do on your own for a change.

Calm Down.
This is not crisis. It's a manufactured one that reflects our own naivite. We ignored Russia's sphere of influence to enthusiastically support a small state that we could neither re-inforce nor supply that was directly within Russia's sphere. Common sense prevailed in the Post WWII era right up until the last 16 years, as no other President would have even considered such a policy.

Russia has nuclear weapons, but she doesn't have the forces to invade countries any larger than those such as Chechnya, Georgia or Aghanistan - and she failed in Aghanistan. Her army is mostly conscipts (draftees), her equipment is out of date and no match for ours, and much of her navy has been turned into environmentally hazardous hulks rusting away in places like Vladivostock. She has 150 million people, but her population is declining at the rate of 800,000 per year as men die young and women don't have enough children.

She has warheads so no one will attack her, but she has neither the economy to support nor forces to attack nor occupy countries of 47 million like the Ukraine, let alone Eastern Europe.

Her economy, what of it that she has is based on oil, and would collapse if Eastern Europe and Europe stopped buying her oil.

Georgia will lose the two areas that, in any case, weren't complying with her laws anyhow, Putin will have stuck his finger in Bushes eye, and the world will return to what it was.




Bravo, Mr. Hanson
...for that elegant turn of phrase in the final paragraph. You summed up our situation with clarity and memorable eloquence.

I do not believe it is time to despair. It is time to tell the truth in every forum we can, from the local lunch counter and corner pub, to the lecture halls in academia, the churches, and the public forum.

I believe that leaders will emerge, not pseudo-messiahs like Obama, if we will keep to our task.

We are in for a rough sled for the next decade, no doubt. It will be an opportunity to see which ideas actually are true, and which aren't.

Thanks again.

Redlac, you missed a crucial point
when you wrote: "(Russia's) economy, what of it that she has is based on oil, and would collapse if Eastern Europe and Europe stopped buying her oil."

Much of the action there is to insure that Europe CAN'T stop buying Russian oil.

The Tax Payers are Tired
We are tired of paying for pork projects that reelect politicians who don't deserve to serve.

We are tired of paying both money and lives to save other countries who consider us enemies.

We are tired of accepting the cast-offs of other countries who feel they can come here and live lives of leasure.

We are tired of paying our own citizens to sit at home and revile us for working.

We are tired of gang members getting slaps on their wrists by judges too old and tired to try to punish them.

We are tired of higher taxes at all levels simply so politicians can spend more money.

We are tired of the lies we are being told at all levels of government.

Fine analysis, Mr. Hanson -
McCain was right from the start and stood up. Obama was wrong from the start and hid behind his usual namby-pamby "we musn't get too excited here about the annihilation of innocent people and their country and don't spill my latte" - Obama is, after all, pro "let infants born alive after an attempted abortion die" so what else would we expect from the Oblahma Utopian Meister. Chamberlain looked more manly running from Hilter.
Germany and other members of NATO who denied Georgia membership because of fear of Russia showed themselves to be cowards and so set Georgia up to be diced and sliced by that coward Putin - Either The Western democracies stand up or we all fall. NATO has a yellow stripe down its back.
We are all Georgians and if we forget it, we will all perish. Thank god for McCain.

We are Tired 2
I am tired of being the dumping place for all the trash clothing and toys that places like China wants to send here for high cash.

I am tired of paying countries to be friends - and very few consider us as more than enemies.

I am tired of rebuilding countries like Iraq to be our competitors.

I am tired of listening to illegal aliens insisting that they have rights under our Constitution to live here.

I am tired of criminals being allowed an open-door policy at our jails.

I am tired of politicians telling me that I cannot defend myself and my family because I might harm some poor criminal.

I am tired of other countries and World Courts telling us that our laws and Constitution are wrong when we have done better with it than they have done with their own.

I'm tired of us being required to be the world's policeman - and nanny.

I'm tired of politicians and schools building large edifaces with my money and then telling me they don't have enough to pay decent wages or maintain what they have built.

I'm tired of being told that all the money I've paid in for retirement has been spent on other projects and there isn't enough to give me for retirement.

I'm tired of all the things the goody-two-shoe people tell me I should be happy to pay for.

I'm tired of being told that every problem in the world is my fault and that I have to pay to fix them.

No, the brave new world
Mr. Hanson:
You have absolutely defined the future. I would say this is what a majority of people in this country are saying they want. Perhaps, we are powerless to stop them from getting what they want. Betcha five dollars they won't like it, when they get it.

Mr Hanson
I totally agree with what you printed.

45-caliber- you are absolutly right on the money. If I ever see a mex flag carried on our streets, I don't know what I would do, let alone a American Flag burner. All I can say is only God can help them.

I'm tired of all of it too. Idiots, all of them!

Latebloomer
No, I didn't miss the point at all. Merely pointed out that Russia needs Europe because her economy is dependent upon Europe. Aside from the mediocrity of the Russian military machine, it also points out the fact that you don't kill your customers - hence talk of invasion is little more than hyperbole. In the end, Bush'es enthusiastic support of Georgia, a country clearly within Russia's sphere of influence, ignored 1/2 century of practical foreign policy. And now, he must deal with the consequences - which are, to put in mildly, embarrassing. Putin knew very well that the US had no means to directly support Georgia, anymore than he has the means to support Chavez. Further, he knew very well that no one - even if they'd had immediately available forces - would confront his army, given his warheads. We spent the 45 years of the cold war avoiding such confrontations. He planned this for many months, and picked the time during the Olympics when he could have the maximum exposure for what he had intended to do. So, he made his point. This outcome was entirely predictable, and if was foolish of the US to put itself in this position - something no other administration would have done.

Further Thought
America gave the world 50 years of relative security. In the interim, Europe prospered, Eastern Europe was freed of communist tyranny, Japan prospered, and China propered as well. Along the way, other countries such as South Korea,Thailand, and India have lifted themselves up as well.

What America cannot do, is continue to pay indefinitely for being the world's enforcer. Sphere's of influence exist. We cannot simply order countries like Russia, China, India, nor the Europeon Community to follow our lead. They can and do follow their own lead, and often it is not in our direct interest. Carrots and sticks are fine. But it is not the lack of military will that we must confront, it is the fact that hiding under the guise of alliances, is the naked economic self interest of many countries who will exploit us as a trade off to meaningless alliances.

We have been trying to manage the entire world. Like with any child, there's a point where it has to walk on its own. It won't be comfortable for us, but bankrupting the US while allowing the naked self interest of our so called allies to exploit us, is not something we can tolerate either.

mr Hanson
"soms"

I agre with your last statement, I too am quite old, but I do not want to leave without at least, sounding the alarm to the up and comming young folks.

Enter nobama, I can't, for the life of me, understand what these youger people are thinking when they support nobama.

All they have to do is study his past, his paster, his wife, who is finially proud to be an American, his wallfaling on all subjects and much more.

I'm afraid that our world, as we know it, is going to hell in a handbasket.

I am sorry to see our up and comming generation being led astray by the likes of nobama, pelosie, reid , kennedy, who should have been prosocuted for the death of his girlfriend,clinton, who used the ovel room for a cathouse and many others that have led our country to this end.

Sorry for the ramblin, but I can not stay quiet any longer. Time is growing short for all of us. Read Revelations, it'll scare the hell out of you.

What new world?
That "new world" dreamed of by those who could see only benefits from globalization, but never its costs, never really existed. The gooey optimism of the early 1990s that the entire planet would become a vast free market where everyone gained and no one ever lost was dead right out of the starting gate. The wonderful, environmentally sound, and ideologically leftist version of a new world order didn't happen either.

There was always the world to which Hanson refers. I notice he didn't give the source for his final line, which is a quote from Thucydides' classic, " History of The Pelopponesian War." Ch. XVII The quote is from the Athenian ambassadors to the island of Melos; the Melians are asking the Athenians not to attack them. The Athenians' speech has been cited for 2000 years to explain what international politics is really like. Here's the pertinent clause:

" you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they canand the weak suffer what they must."

The Athenians took the city of Melos, killed all the adult men, and sold the women and children into slavery; then they settled their own colonits on what remained.

I agree with both Hanson and Thucydides that this is simply the way things are. Any ideology of left or right that imagines and thinks it can produce a world that has none of this in it is a dream.

right on
So now Hanson is threatening to have the US stop policing the world and engaging in preemptive wars in places like Iraq. I say, Hanson is right. Lets teach the world a lesson and stop following the kinds of foreign policy that Hanson has supported and the rest of the world opposes anyway.

I just wish Hanson, and those he supports, had hit upon this threat 6 years ago.

wes:
Several years ago, there was court session in Washington state about flag burning.

The judge ruled that it was a freedom of expression - BUT!! he also ruled that it was legal for anyone that objected to it could stop it if desired.

The very next morning someone tried to burn an American flag on the steps of that courthouse. Another saw him, knocked him down the steps, and put out the flag. The person trying to burn the flag stated that he couldn't understand why anyone would take offence but the person who put out the flag walked away scot free due to the judge's ruling.

I don't know what other states would do in this situation, but it was a federal judge who made the ruling. And I know I've not heard of a single flag burning since.

Further, in Chicago, an "artist" had a flag laid on the floor of the art museum and placed the guest register such that all visitors had to walk on the flag to sign the book. Shortly after the museum opened, a man and his son picked up and folded the flag. A guard tried to object, stating it was art. The father walked off with the flag and told the guard that it was illegal to do such a thing. No one objected.

I figure that if I ever do see anyone trying to burn a flag, I can take what measures I feel necessary to stop it.

Tell you what I see…
… I also know, no one cares one bit!

Retail sales drop for first time in 5 months!

Consumer prices rise at double the expected rate!

Russia invades Georgia!

Gulf monarchies make trillions from jacked-up oil prices!

The fact is simply this; we as a nation have learned nothing from history, nothing. History tells of the future, if you change the names and faces and you will see that history repeats itself. America is due a huge downfall and it will come, this I do believe, and when it comes it will be over CAPATOLISM (law of supply and demand) and what “it is only business” has done to this nation. You will finely find out where the point is on the statement “as much as the public will bear” and what the public will do about it.

People will die here just like in Georgia but the all important question is “WHO WILL THEY TAKE WITH THEM?” as I do not see rednecks / patriots going alone.

Because of Gov. EGO’S, Bad Gov., Bad Business Practices and Just Plain Greed At Any Cost a storm is coming and I do think that unless things change in a hurry, it will be coming sooner than later. The people are bound by The Declaration Of Independence dated July 4, 1776 to do so, like it or not! I hope things change and it never happens but with greed involved I do not hold any hope that it will not.

Comforted by a Return to Normal
It is strangely comforting to hear philosophers finally talk of normal history pointing to a normal future, where legitimacy is backed by truth and a healthy respect for power in place of relativism and the miserable utopian promises.

Dan in NV
Two things: Guarantee a price of $80 to $90 a barrel for any and all crude oil (or similar refineable substance) produced in the USA or contiguous countries for the next 30 to 35 years. The price to the refined substances will remain high enough to preclude prolifigate consumption and we will be running a surplus in short order. Enough of one to start supplying
other countries if their current suppliers do not behave themselves.

Then on the military front, as well as civilian, go to space. Spaceborne weapons systems equalize nations like Peacemakers and 73 Winchesters equalized individuals. Yep, I am saying turn the whole solar system into The Old West. America is the Number One beneficiary of having everybody being capable of taking care of themselves. Things won't be any closer to utopian than they are now but miscreants will start finding themselves in
Coffeyville Kansas and wars will be limited to Lincoln County. Good enough for me.

Then we find out what the new problems will be and try to figure out how to deal with them.



The people are not bound
by the Declaration of Independence, nor by the Constitution. When change comes, it will not be over Capitalism, as our system is not a free market system.

Our system is a 'hampered market' system that enriches well-connected corporations at the top, and non-producers at the bottom. All at the expense of the productive middle class.

The first two wars for Independence that were fought in this country were started over taxes and lack of representation.

In light of this view, it's interesting to note that our current/future unfunded tax liabilities amount to 50+ Trillion dollars. This is money that my children have to pay. Currently they are too young to vote, yet they've been obligated to pay it since before they were born. I'd say that's a pretty clear-cut case of 'taxation without representation.'

It's time to demolish the current "strong central government" and decentralize authority. The United States are on the precipice of a great moment in history. When the plunge comes, will we have the courage and the will to regain our natural rights?

Not like the 1930s
In the 1930s no one had WMD and the means to deliver them. A country that had the necessary natural resources, intellectual capacity, and incentives could have pondered isolationism. Not in the 21st century, though.

Unfortunately we have to play the game. Like Jumanji, we can't stop playing because the world's tyrants, be they large countries or small islamic tribes, will someday develop, or aquire, the meams to destroy anything they want. That is why when Bush said at the Olympic games it is necessary to stay engaged with the Chinese, he was spot on.

The only chance of good winning over bad is to live to fight another day. That is what our enemies are doing, and that is what American's must do...that, and be willing to fight.

There is no standing by and watching this game. We must play the game and try to win. If we don't, we forfeit...and die.

Fbrosius
writes, "America is due a huge downfall and it will come, this I do believe, and when it comes it will be over CAPATOLISM (law of supply and demand) and what “it is only business” has done to this nation"

Bizarre statement. Only a die hard marxist could still blame capitalism for anything or call it greed. Greed is what supplies you with your gasoline, electricity, and cell phone. It is the utter height of ignorance to blame the greed of individuals and attempt to blame it on an economic system when the opposite system has failed everywhere it has been attempted including Jamestown, the founding of this country. People starved to death under your benevolent communist system and it was only when capitalism was instituted and greed allowed that they flourished and were able to feed themselves.

I know this is a very difficult pill to swallow for communists but, then communism was never about bettering the lives of people, it was only about pandering to idiots like you to gain political power. It works on lots of folks. We see the evidence here every day.

45caliber
You seem to have heard an old wives tale with that flag burning thing. After the Supreme Court last ruled that flag burning was protected speech, which I believe was the late '80s, Louisiana did pass a law decriminalizing responses to flag burning. It was quickly ruled unconsitutional.

On the plus side, flag burning has always been rare enough that you are unlikely to actually see such a thing in person. But in the unlikely case that you do, and you get the urge to push the person down stairs, you should expect to be charged with battery.

Offensive as it may seem that people in this country don't agree with you, it is still not permissable to do them bodily harm. I know totalitarian governments think otherwise, but that doesn't make it right.

Lon
It may be an old wives tale as you call it but I did see it on the evening national news at the time.

Besides, I wouldn't push the guy down a set of stairs. I'm not that nasty. I would jerk the burning flag from him and he would fall down the stairs on his own.

There Is No World Order
The fact that former President Bush and former President Clinton pushed for a new world order and opened up our borders and the big oil companies and major corporations joined their agenda has created the micro-management of a country that was free but now has to nearly follow the dictates of public servants who tell them that their wages are cut because their efforts to build a great country and make celebrities and public servants who they are and pay their wages is no longer welcomed or appreciated. In fact, immigrants are now dictating to natural born generational citizens whose tears, sweat and blood made us free. And, I don't doubt that these dicatators will monitor when citizens can go to the restroom with perverts since anyone can walk into a women's restroom now or if one complains, they'll probably be fined! Welcome to the New America while the rest of the world who pushed globalization in our faces and who and hate and threaten our country does what it wants without paying back a country who saved them from disasters and set them free osince its inception! Send Iraq - oil rich country - and Israel - oil rich country - a bill for our protection and we can pay back our national debt and owe no foreign country - They have more oil than the world can use while we suffer and our soldiers die. Where's the repayments for our services? Good, grief, wake up America! There can't be a New World Order because the whole world is Out of Order!

National Debt and the End of the U.S.
I see only a few ways to get rid of our national debt.

1. Pay it off. RIGHT! I can just see Congress doing that.

2. Declare bankruptcy or refuse to pay it. We already did bankruptcy once. I don't see it happening again, particularly since some judge would turn every national park and forest in the U.S. over to foreign countries as "payment".

3. Have a civil war. Possible but unlikely. It would be done primarily to replace the existing politicians with someone with a little common sense. If it occurs it would be the West against the East, with California helping the East. But I really don't see it happening.

4. Break up the country ... like Russia did. The U.S.S.R. had a massive debt to things like the World Bank. When it dissolved, the debt did too since the U.S.S.R. didn't exist anymore. This could be done here too - and it would provide the politicians with even more places to be President. Big fish in little ponds. The only trouble is that most "countries" would be unviable. It requires a large population, a miltary presence, a good infrastructure, and raw materials to be a strong country. How many places in the U.S. have all of them?

Rose - World Order
Just about the only place in the world in favor of some sort of World Order managed by the U.N. is the United States. I've never figured out why. We have our own soviernty so why should we want to give it all up to some vote by people like the ruler of Lybia or Iran? Major companies like it because it would reduce tariffs they might have to pay.

Two points
Alarmists bemoan the national debt and/or future liabilities. But a loan officer would look at a balance sheet especially the net worth. The federal government is like grandma's attic and it has been accumulating assets in it. I saw a reasoned proposal by a Libertarian that laid out how we could get out from under the whole thing by selling these assets back to the people where they belong. Sell a railroad, millions of acres of land, the gold in F Knox and make the lawyers go back to wearing cloth coats.
We are a lot more prosperous that we were in the 70's. I cawn see that in how mu children live. That added p;rosperity came from making people abroad our customers.

Service for Suffrage
The United States needs to take some steps to brace the character of its citizens without infringing upon their civil liberties. I recommend three measures: (1) term limits for all political offices, (2) victim compensation for criminal sentences instead of prison time, and (3) restriction of voting privileges to: (a)people who are not receiving any compensation from the government for which they are voting, and (b)people who have served one or two years in basic training for reserve defense or defense support roles for this nation. The training could be refreshed two weeks out of every year. An all-volunteer professional military would conduct this training, and would hold the positions of commissioned and non-commissioned officers. Without a draft, we would thus have a large segment of the population that could be mobilized in times of need, and all the people who were eligible to vote would be civilians with experience in service to the United States. Thus, they would be more likely to care about the welfare of the nation over their own short-term interests.

reply to Rose
Politicians have imagined a New World Order for millenia; each ancient conqueror nurtured the vain hope that his conquests would bring such an order into existence. To be sure, some ancient figures (Cyrus the Great, Alexander, the more ambitious Roman Emperors, a few others) managed, for brief periods of time, to achieve order in the lands they ruled. But as for world order, no way.

The colonial empires of the modern period (Span, Portugal, the Netherlands, England, Germany, France) could all maintain order in some of their possessions, but, again, never the world as a whole.

Whenever our politicians start talking about a new world order, I just remind myself that, in the final analysis, all they produce are some cool-looking ruins and lots of bodies.

I urge people to think about world politics sub specie aeternitatis. Grass grows where empires once stood.

THE STRONG HAVE ALWAYS DONE

.....WHAT THEY WANTED ....FDR kissed up to Stalin out of fear ...Truman allowed China to fall to Communism and Russia to aquire the bomb out of fear ...our State Dept. has been tiptoeing around Russia for Decades ...only Reagan had the cahones to call Russia an evil empire ...

.....GW's policy has been to speak loudly and carry a small stick ...Russia does not fear us ...China has called us a paper tiger ...and this time they may be right ...our foreign policy has allowed them both to aquire great wealth ...Russia invited oil companies in to develop their fields, then Nationalized them and kicked the oil companies out ...oil is the source of Russia's new found wealth while the Democrats and the eco-terrorists in our own country keep us from getting our own oil ...no wonder the World no longer respects us .....COLOSSUS

Hey, Vic, choir boy speaking . . .
Not to take a way from your right on point, but it's like telling your kid to stay away from hot stoves or he'll get burned when the kid already "knows" how much his parents want to make him look stupid and ignorant (which he is, but kids know everything anyway, don't they?). I'll hand it to you, you're prophetic but that pot of boiling water is already sliding off the burner heading toward that young hopeful child who holds his hand out to receive the all-protective obamabrella which will change him from being stupid and ignorant to wishing he hadn't been so stupid and ignorant.

Hitchhiker that is not what I said…
… “CAPATOLISM”, “law of supply and demand”, it is not personal “it is only business”, you can charge “as much as the public will bear” this is the capitalism I speak of and not the one you are implying. The one we now have in this country is all about money! Who can collect the most. In short Greed! Do you really believe that the rest of middleclass America and below cannot see this? What I am telling you is that the rumbling on the street is getting louder because of: Gulf monarchies make trillions from jacked-up oil prices!, Retail sales drop for first time in 5 months!, and Consumer prices rise at double the expected rate! People are losing their homes; there are no meaningful jobs for middleclass America. America is looking for someone to blame. At this point America is in the same position as Germany was in the 30’s and you think nothing is going to happen? Come on you cannot be that naive or is it just wishful thinking. This will come about from Big Business and Bad Government and this combination does not make good bed partners! You may try and laugh this away however this is no joke!

Thrasymachus
Dear Thrasymachus-minded folks:

As our great President said on July 4th (roughly), 2003: BRING EM ON!

No, even Dr. Michael Scheuer notes near the end of his provocative "Marching Toward Hell"...this great America First Writer and pundit...Dr. Scheuer says what is well known or will be well-known: When the "sleeping giant" America finally wakes up, look out.

At least, this Texan hopes and prays that our next president uses wisdom when he makes his decisions. And Wisdom has zero to do with rigid, reflex-action partisanship. Wisdom surprises. Wisdom challenges "the way things have always been done." Wisdom can nudge gently, or it can strike ruthlessly. Wisdom can charm; it can stun into silence. Wisdom can sit still and do "nothing." Wisdom can decide, and in doing so--enlist Goood Nature itself, not to mention the Almighty, in its Spirit-ispired action. In our time, Wisdom is Prudence in Aristotle's sense...plus Prudence in Saint Thomas Aquinas' sense. It is grounded, therefore, in Courage, Justice, Temperance and Fortitude. It comines the very best mores from Athens, Sparta, Jerusalem and Mecca.

Flies in the ointment
1. We need China. We are hooked on cheap goods.

2. China doesn't need us. We built a great economy without a WalMart to export to.

3. China could double all of their prices tomorrow, and we would still have to pay them.

4. We will be importing foreign oil until it is all gone -- or we are all gone.

great news from mccain
mccain on tv yesterday "russia should realize that in the 21st century one nation does not invade another nation" great news. i was wondering where our army went.

45caliber


45caliber
Location: TX

Reply # 15
Date: Aug 14, 2008 - 9:39 AM EST Subject: The Tax Payers are Tired
We are tired of paying for pork projects that reelect politicians who don't deserve to serve.


~~~~~~~~~

45caliber
Location: TX

Reply # 17
Date: Aug 14, 2008 - 9:48 AM EST Subject: We are Tired 2
I am tired of being the dumping place for all the trash clothing and toys that places like China wants to send here for high cash.


~~~

I can't copy all your posts into one, But I agree with you wholeheartedly !

I believe we are doomed, and have believed this for many years.

OBTW 45 caliber is one of my favorites also., as is .223. 22-250, .308...

and basically anything that goes "BANG".

We are in for HARD TIMES! I grow much of my own food, I harvest meat from the area, and I can live for a while as a savage, if I have to. Like it? No. But I can do it. I suggest that everyone start learning the necessary skills.


The Independent Rat

Hitchhiker: I am glad you…
… Know of what you speak and can pass on your wisdom to the rest of us, as we seem to not know anything as compared to you;

“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the "RIGHT" of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their "RIGHT", it is their "DUTY", to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..... And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our "Lives", our "Fortunes" and our sacred "Honor".” July 4, 1776

Ya! I’m a Communist and you are wrong about that also!
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