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Thursday, December 06, 2007
Victor Davis Hanson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Of Teddy Bears and Cartoons
by Victor Davis Hanson
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Here we go again. Thousands of Sudanese Muslims took to the street last week to threaten death to a British schoolteacher in Khartoum.

Her crime? She inadvertently committed the felony of allowing her class to name a teddy bear “Muhammad.”

The teacher, Gillian Gibbons, has been pardoned by Sudan’s president (after initially being sentenced to 15 days in prison) and sent home to England. Yet that happy ending doesn’t erase the reaction in the streets of Khartoum. The tired story behind irrational anger in much of the Muslim world remains the same.

Watch out if Westerners somewhere are judged blasphemous to Islam when they draw a cartoon, write a novel, make a movie or discuss history.

In their furious reaction, thin-skinned Muslims may issue death threats. And they expect apologies. Sometimes the offense — like the reporting of a Koran flushed down the toilet at Guantanamo Bay — turns out to be false but still causes riots and murdering thousands of miles away.

Likewise, the reaction to this madness is now stereotyped. Often apologies — not condemnation — follow from contrite Westerners. To prevent a recurrence, Western writers, filmmakers, teachers and religious figures quietly edit their work and restrict their speech — but only when Islam is involved.

So-called moderate Muslims, often residing in Western countries, will usually say they deplore such extremism on the part of radicals. Then they claim such intolerance is simply not typical of Islam. Or that the embarrassing story has been reported in exaggerated fashion by those prejudiced against Muslims.

Few, though, ever explain why it is that Muslims — not Hindus, Christians, Buddhists or atheists — are in the global news threatening to kill someone over a toy or a cartoon or an opera.

Finally, the uproar dies down — only to break out again in a new place over a new grievance.

There are certain unspoken rules of the game behind all these incidents. The first is the lack of reciprocity. Christ can be mocked in the Middle East without any consequences.

Muslim leaders can venture to the Vatican at Rome, the ancient center of Christianity, to consult with the pope about the necessity of more interfaith understanding. But should a pope or clergyman want to reciprocate by venturing to Mecca, he better convert to Islam first.

New mosques and conversions to Islam are common in the West. But to send missionaries to, or build a new church in, Saudi Arabia, Sudan or Pakistan is to court death.

Condescension is also required. The demonstrator who waves a sword calling for a beheading is often excused. The poor guy must not be educated, rather than just cruel and dangerous. “We’re so sorry for the little mix-up” is the public Western answer to the shout of “Death to you!”

We also know why all this won’t stop, whether in Pakistan or Sudan — or whether over a cartoon or a teddy bear or who knows what next.

A globalized world means communications are instantaneous. What one person in Denmark draws is broadcast immediately to millions in Islamabad and Khartoum. And they are apparently glued to, but very angry at, the modern world that pops up on their television screens.

The Muslim Middle East has much of the world’s oil. So its excesses are put up with by the rest of the world rather than loudly condemned. But after 9/11 and the bombings in Madrid and London, Islamists screaming for a beheading cannot quite be laughed off. Instead they may be the vanguard of something far worse.

Decades of multiculturalism have brainwashed Europeans and Westerners into believing that Islamic furor must be judged in a special cultural context, or is only understood through some real past grievance, usually dating back to the Crusades.

Sometimes apologists dredge up Timothy McVeigh or violence in Northern Ireland as if to prove that supposed Christian-inspired terrorism is just as much a world danger as jihadism. We know it isn’t, but such moral equivalence sounds liberal and might calm down the mob.

Other times we drag Iraq into the conversation and say the armed removal of Saddam radicalized Muslims — as if the fatwa against Salman Rushdie or 9/11 followed the outbreak of that war.

What would stop this unhealthy teddy bear syndrome?

— Weaning ourselves off imported oil and therefore the need to appease those who have it.

— Politely informing Muslims that Westerners believe the norms of free speech and expression are to be uniformly applied. No one religion or region gets a special pass.

— Supporting human rights abroad and offering some constitutional alternative in the Middle East to theocracy and dictatorship that both encourage Islamic radicalism.

— And remaining militarily strong.

Remember that the fanatic waving his age-old sword in the Khartoum street over a teddy bear shows the same dangerous derangement as the nut in Tehran who may one day want his hand on the Bomb.

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About The Author
Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and a recipient of the 2007 National Humanities Medal.

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Svirk, give it up, this taqiyya of yours
SVIRK,

Your incessant taqiyya doesn't work here.

(Now you're supposed to tell me that I spelled taqiyya wrong, and therefore I know nothing about Islam.)

Kathleen, Bytheocean, TheLeftIsEvil: Keep up the good work, it is appreciated.

Svirk, anyone who has eyes can see behind the taqiyya. You outwit no-one.

-Taq

reply to svpallava
The last time I looked, it was the Right that opposed granting full civil liberties to the Jews in France, Germany, and elsewhere in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The Right was certainly the political home for the hatred of Jews that was such a huge part of politics in Western Europe in the late 19th and eaerly 20th centuries. Apart from Marx's comments on the Jews in his 1844 essay "On the Jewish Question" [Here is a URL for it:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-ques tion/], you don't get a big anti-Jewish position on the Left until Stalin, who took advantage of traditional Russian anti-Semitism to get support from the Russian people.

The now-fashionable Leftist anti-Zionism (shared by Buchanan and many TH readers)is very recent, stemming from the intellectual confusion of the "New Left" in the 1960s.


The left
Does everyone on the left think The U.S. is a force of evil? Dog was a nonstop rant about evil America. Are we the cause of all the evil and injustice in the world? Lord Almighty. Where would this world be today if we had just told every one to kiss-off for the last 100 years. Does dog really think we killed MILLIONS of people in The 'Nam? Have we been running around conquering the world for the last 75 years? Did we take posession of Japan or Germany in 1945? Did we take posession of the Middle East during Desert Storm and steal the oil? Have we never given anything of value to the world? No food, no medicine, no aid of any kind? Where would this planet be without America? I see so much good here. How do some folks think as they do? Do they really hate their country so much? My God it is disturbing, and that is for sure and for certain.

The Left
The Left is definitely anti Zionist and anti religion. They view anyone weak as good and anyone powerful as bad therefore Israel and the US are bad and the Palestinians are good.
Unfortunately the Left has the campuses and Jewish students are either intimidated, or guilt ridden and apologetic for existing.

Then you get into the fact that the Naziis were national Socialists. They were leftists but people refer to them as rightists.

You can't blame everything on conservatism. At Townhall I ran into a Croatian American who had all the biases from traditional European Catholicism fed to him with his mother's milk, and of Croatia which sided with the Naziis. In Europe I ran into a man named Adolph from Eastern Germany. The countries left behind in 1945 behind the Iron Curtain are not up to date. It could be 1946. The same is true for the Muslim allies of Hitler.

Conservatism: there is David Duke and furthermore he is getting paid by petrodollars. And yes I agree Pat Buchanan is too.
But on the other side is Jimmy Carter. But now we have Olmert agreeing with Jimmy Carter. Yikes.











For Gestell
Unfortunately, the term "conservative" in US covers a range between "indistinguishable from rightmost liberals" (Rudy Guliani) to "harder-line than Heydrich" (such as Buchanan).

However, it is not correct that "the Right owned Jew-hatred well before some Leftists adopted it"--as Leftists were in the first-place defined by an aversion to organised religion (including practiced Judaism).

Worried about TH Jew-haters?
Whenever a columnist writes about the Middle East, the conservative Jew-haters crawl out from under their rocks. A few TH readers have noticed this, but there is actually a bigger issue here. Conservativs need to understand and examine critically the anti-Jewish sentiments that can be found in conservatism. Traditionally, the political Right has been home to such sentiments for quite a while. Very few American conservatives really want to think about this problem, and generally they succeed in avoiding it. Some TH readers might remember Bill Buckley's lengthy NR article (and later book) on anti-Semitism among conservatives. Buckley just scratched the surface, but he did at least open this issue up. He identified, among others, Pat Buchanan as an anti-Semite, but Buchanan remains in good standing among many conservatives.

Somebody will doubtless bring up the Left's Jew-hatred. Demonstrating "moral equivalence" should not be persuasive for conservatives, who generally rebuke the Left for this strategy. In any case, the Right owned Jew-hatred well before some Leftists adopted it.

So, look within, conservatives, and face up to what you may find there.

Kathleen writes:
> It is the truth from your Lord; therefore let
> him who will believe and let him who will
> disbelieve." [Quran 18:29]
> =========
> You are simply not telling the truth.

You are ignorant of Islam. What you imagine you know is simple minded propaganda you have been fed.

> Every chapter of the Hadith, I found non
> peaceful agendas. The Qur'an is equally
> riddled with such. The fifth surah, verse
> 72. ‘They are surely infidels who say, "God
> is the Christ, son of Mary."’

"They surely are disbelievers...", would be a better translation.

> And in the last post I have shown where Allah
> and Mohummad gave instructions to kill the
> infidel.

That is utter nonsense. There is no command to kill disbelievers just because they are disbelievers. Any fool can cut and paste verses of the Bible or the Quran out of context to make whatever case they want.

> Verse 1294: "If a Muslim discards his
> religion, kill him."

Verse 1294, eh? You are talking about things you have no understanding of and this is not the place to learn. Ask questions of Muslims... don't make foolish pronouncements about another's faith when all you have is training from hate mongers.

> Virk, I can do this all day.

I'm sure you can. The problem is that you are talking nonsense.

> The Qur'an does in fact state that treaties
> with non-mulims are non-binding.

No it does not.

> And it is okay to lie for peace until you
> get stronger to thoroughly destroy.

More lies or ignorance on your part. You are clearly a victim of Islamophobic propaganda.

S Virk



Shells
You thought Boutte was conservative? I thought it was a she and a liberal. I do not know if the handle name refers to Louisianna or to booty, it depends on how you pronounce it. I have met the ugliest conservatives I have ever met at Townhall. It was a disappointment.
Since Kucinich I believe mentioned the possibility of his getting together with Ron Paul, I think it is circular and at a certain point the extreme Left and the extreme right meet.


I believe Gravell had some kind things to say about Iran.
And Biden certainly seems to prefer believing Iran over the president.
Luckily I hear that the majority of Americans do not believe the news put out by someone with an agenda about Iran.






comments


As to the Koran and Hadith - I am not going to spend the time looking up and giving references. It is findable enough if one googles apes and pigs and rats and Koran and Hadith and Jews and Christians, or googles Jews hiding behind stones and and stones crying out.The do on for atheists, then non believers, then apostates... Ok I spent a couple of moments:
"HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "
HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6985] Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

"Smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers
8.12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

"Smite the neck of unbelievers
47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them,"

Then look up the rules on slaves such that a Muslim can take a Jew or a Christian or an unbeliever and take them captive to a slave market and sell them or kill them if a slave market is not close by.

I do not keep a Koran and a Hadith on my desk as a reference.
If one is open to seeing, one will see, if not, one won't.






Svirk:
What is the matter with people when they resort to teaching each other outright lies on the right-wing "Apocolyptic Blogosphere"?

The Quran preaches exactly the opposite of aurorawatcher's claim.

"It is the truth from your Lord; therefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve." [Quran 18:29]
=========
You are simply not telling the truth. Every chapter of the Hadith, I found non peaceful agendas. The Qur'an is equally riddled with such.
The fifth surah, verse 72. ‘They are surely infidels who say, "God is the Christ, son of Mary."’

And in the last post I have shown where Allah and Mohummad gave instructions to kill the infidel.
Verse 1294: "If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him." A family in New Jersey was slaughtered for this.

The Book of Jihad, chapter one, number 1204. "Guide me to a deed that equals Jihad in reward." He replied, "There is no such deed."

Virk, I can do this all day. You should be honest. The Qur'an does in fact state that treaties with non-mulims are non-binding. And it is okay to lie for peace until you get stronger to thoroughly destroy. I can find the verses. But gotta go for now. I'll follow the thread and bring whatever you ask for to the table as far as Islam. Have you actually read the Qur'an or the Hadith?



Saqib Virk
svirk writes: Thursday, December, 06, 2007 10:09 AM
aspacia writes:
> The Qu'ran and Hadiths do indeed assert that
> Jihad is violent struggle against the infidel,
> especially Jews.
That is an ignorant lie.
> Oh, yes, it is condoned to lie to one's wife
> and enemy in Islam, and we are the enemy
> folks."
Again, that is ignorance on your part but since I am a Muslim I guess you will assume I am lying. How convenient for you.
Peace,
Saqib Virk
==========================
No sir, YOU are the one mistaken.

Qur’an 47 Allah says, "When you clash with the [Christian] infidels smite their necks until you overpower them, then hold them in bondage taking a ransom. I could have killed them Myself but I want to test your followers, [Muhammad].

"Woe to those who are skeptical when a surah is revealed mentioning war."

"If you have a treaty with such people, retaliate by breaking it off." "

Hadith of al-Bukhari; From the Book of Faith, chapter 23, number 34. ‘The Prophet said, "Allah assigns to a person who fights in holy battles in His Cause to be rewarded with booty if he survives, or Paradise if he is killed in battle as a martyr."’ The Prophet added, ‘"Had I not found it difficult for my followers,"’ to do without me, is the implication, ‘"I would have fought in army units going for Jihad. I would have loved to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then made alive, and then martyred again in His Cause."




Bytheocean
I was thinking the same thing. There certainly has been a wave of anti-semites on TH when the primaries began and Ron Paul announced he was running.

Coincidence? Who knows? But Boutte is a product of the absolute worst conservative, ever.

I am a conservative, but it truly embarrasses me to see lunatics like this out on the loose. Being one of those evil Jews, just what would Boutte do to me if we met face to face--considering that everything wrong with the world today, yesterday and all our tomorrows will be my fault?

it's too bad
It's too bad that the townhall blog is getting bogged down with anti Semites, neo Naziis, liberal mush for brains, and people pretending to be liberals MFB. I guess the internet is going the way of television, only faster. When the educated and rich had it, the quality was great. As it democratizes, the level goes down and down and down and down an down the tubes...





When are you all going to get it right?
These constant attacks against the peace loving people of the Middle East need to stop! So the crowds got a little heated over this issue. So what? Look at the hysteria over the Salem Witch trials and the attacks on innocent Tories during the the Revolutionary War. The events of 2 centuries ago should be sufficient to justify any actions in the Middle East today.

Don't you all realize that we must pity the Muslim for being what he or she is? They cannot help it. We must look down on them and accept them for what they are.

Besides, they have just cause. Look at the actions of the Europeans during the Crusades. America should be ashamed of itself for what was done during the Middle Ages. Americans must accept the wages of sin. Thomas Jefferson certainly did everything he could to incite and inflame hatred for America by refusing to make simple payments to the Muslims of Barbary, payments that I'm sure went to feed starving orphans and widows.

Let's all get it straight. Every action of a foreign power can be justified by past actions against that foreign power, no matter how distant in the past. America must also accept responsibility for every action taken against a foreign power or religion other than Christianity.

Conversely, America has no right to act against any group or nation. Because of America's violent and evil past, we must take whatever punishment comes our way. We cannot justify any actions. We are not allowed.

As Phylo might say, peace out.

ENOUGH!
If one looked very carefully at the demonstrator's faces you won't see (on the average) twisted faces of rage, nor anger, nor ANY indication of malice. Almost ALL of the newsreels show smiley faces and an almost circus like atmosphere. Did we not also see this in the demonstrations AFTER 9/11 in those same countries?

Lest we forget that date (9/11) we will be groveling to EACH AND EVERY P.C. "mistake" one can make for even naming TEDDY BEARS? When will P.C. end? It WON'T so long as we cow tow to Multi-culturalistic propoganda and all its MARXIST (and they ARE Marxist) ideals.

On the other hand it shows EXACTLY what we are up against when (NOT if) it will soon hit our own shores and we have to BOW DOWN to a RELIGIOUS DICTATORSHIP that would be far from Christian! And would far outweigh the consequences of another Dark Age.

Know what the worst thing is? We are allowing this to happen - just as we allowed a certain DICTATOR a "pass" during the 1930's just so that we do not "offend".

I'm retired military myself and have enough common sense to know (AND desire) that I would rather fight these bastards myself ON THEIR OWN TURF - than to have my SONS fight them trying to acquire THEIR own home, and THEIR own way of life. OR - do we instead bend over and allow the neighborhood bully the "RIGHT" to kick us where we then shine the best?!

WHERE has common sense gone?

America WAKE UP and take back our country .. VOTE and VOTE with a conscious concern - not with the very apathy that is destroying our very moral fiber and heritage.



Chowda Melon
I think you should either go to a neo-Nazi website, or a Ron Paul website, but I repeat myself.

Mountain Rose
She was not eerily calm. She was British.

The nice thing about the teddy bear incident cooked up by the political people and imams of the Sudan is that whatever she named the teddy bear they could get upset.
If she named him Mo, they got upset. Had she not named him Mo they could have gotten upset. Had she forbidden the teddy bear to be named Mo they could get upset. Had she named him Jesus instead of Mo they could have gotten upset. Had she named him Moses they could have gotten upset.


Boutte wrote:
“A rather silly woman makes about the worst cultural faux pas you can commit in a strict Muslim country, and is let off with a couple of days in the pokey.”

Boutte also wrote something that is especially appropriate at Christmas time:

”Some of us wish American Christians were a little tougher on calculated insults to their faith and attempts to suppress its public display, which are often inspired by lawyer members of the race whose interests Hanson serves so faithfully.”

To clarify why this droll little incident received so much media attention, Boutte elaborated:

”How disappointing for Hanson and all the neocons who have been agitating for confrontation with Sudan (an enemy of Israel in the Red Sea) for months.”

”Where's a fighting chickenhawk war-worshiper such as Hanson going to get his jollies now?”

As someone that has spent some time in the area I appreciated the comments about the local boys being rather excitable; I was once almost lynched for wiping my windshield with a rag that had “holy” writing on it.

The fact that I have lived in Denmark brought back: “The "Dane" who organized the Mohammed cartoons was a Jew from the Ukraine called Flemming Rose.”

That little stunt didn’t fool the locals for a second!

In closing, thanks Boutte! And thanks BBC.


Barbarians on Parade..
Great inclusive article by Mr Hanson, here.

Some ordeal for the lady who was just trying to help Muslim children. So glad so made it out, ok. Still, She is a good example of the naivete of many Do-Gooding Westerners about Islam. Apparently, she, Gillian, was inspired to teach Muslim children because she was "fascinated" by the their "religion"... No doubt, she got a big enough dose of it to last her a lifetime.

Those little Medevil Crazies like the Ones who go ballistic over every "MO" cartoon; they are the ones who actually follow the Quran literally, and they must have the real version; not the sanitized version mostly in the West.

One positive about this insident..every time the Islamic Lunatics take to the streets over some irrational nonsense..even many of the clueless people take notice. That is what the PC West is up against.

Problem solved!
I invested in a young breeding boar recently. He's up at my friend's farm and will be meeting some fine young virgins soon.

I've been racking my brain for a name.When the teddy bear story broke, so did an idea.

I think that Mo will be a swine investment, and will save our bacon with the offspring.

FYI outraged Muslims,Mohammed lives in a pig palace twenty miles SW of Jasper,Florida.

Feel free to ask for directions. Our good ole boys will be happy to tell you where to go.

Warning,Mo is remarkably intelligent, and we are having him attack trained.

Frigglesnitz writes:
> HAND ON THE TRIGGER OF THE BIG ONE
> All we need is for a nut job to have his
> fist wrapped around the button for the big
> one. Does Ahmadidajitterbug come to mind?

No, but a recovering drunk of a cowboy and his drunken partner who shoots old men in the face do come to mind. Perhaps you know the pair I refer too?

As for the Iranian leader, wasn't he recently vindicated (somewhat) when it was discovered the recovering drunk leading the free world was lying and hiding important information in order to justify American terrorism against the Iranian people?

Peace,
S Virk



CT writes:
> svirk,
> Why then haven't moderate Muslims spoken out
> against and doing something about what's going
> on with Islamic violence and intolerance
> around the world? Their silence creates the
> impression which causes distrust among
> Westerners.

There is no silence. It is extremely frustrating for mainstream Muslims to see how much play the fanatics get while the voices of reason are ignored. See the following for one example of mainstream Muslims speaking out.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

> Muslims in this country also defend and make
> excuses for terrorists as well.

Really? I'm a Muslim, born and raised in North America and I have rarely heard anyone defending terrorists. However, I have heard many Americans condemn moderate Muslims as terrorists for not fully supporting American aggression in Iraq. It is true that mainstream Muslims cannot remain silent as our faith is destroyed by extremists from within, and mocked by agenda-driven, habitual Islam-haters from without.

Peace,
S Virk

Verbivore writes:
> The Koran teaches the opposite? Someone forgot
> to tell that to the Muslims of Sudan.

Exactly, and that is the fault of Muslims.

> You say, "Man must have freedom of conscience
> and be free to believe as he wishes."
>
> Does that go for the Teddy Bear lady? She
> believed it was ok to name a teddy bear
> muhhamed. How come some people wanted to
> stomp out her freedom to belief and put her
> in prison?

I believe it was 20 out of 23 children in her class that voted to name the teddy bear "Muhammad". I consider it a sweet gesture on the part of the kids and consider the fanatics attacking the teacher to be ignorant... to say the least.

Peace,
S Virk


Sieg Heil Bou-effete
A rather silly woman makes about the worst cultural faux pas you can commit in a strict Muslim country, and is let off with a couple of days in the pokey,
"Stup, baby, the kids named the bear!)

How disappointing for Hanson and all the neocons who have been agitating for confrontation with Sudan (an enemy of Israel in the Red Sea) for months. The entire "Save Darfur" bogus genocide thing was set up by Jewish organizations.
( So people are not being killed?)
(Neocons? Where do you get your talkng points?)

And just as the news comes in that Iran is nowhere near having nukes too! Where's a fighting chickenhawk war-worshiper such as Hanson going to get his jollies now?
(Is this the same "news" organizations that reported WMDs a few years ago?)
The BBC reported that the demonstrations against Mrs Gibbons were orchestrated and good-humored: there are always lots of lads with too little to do available to go on a protest march, but most Khartoum residents knew nothing about it- the media made little of it. Mrs Gibbons said she was well treated and wished she could go back to the Sudan. As it is, she can make some cash selling her story to Britain's yellow press.
(It was all good humored Daniel Pearl's head was cut off, too, you fool.)
Seems like a pretty good outcome all round. Some of us wish American Christians were a little tougher on calculated insults to their faith and attempts to suppress its public display, which are often inspired by lawyer members of the race whose interests Hanson serves so faithfully.
PS: The "Dane" who organized the Mohammed cartoons was a Jew from the Ukraine called Flemming Rose.(Yea, well..I guess adolf really did have children.)
So many Zionist provocations and still no holy war- sheesh!(No fool! Baksheesh! P.S. if this is L.D. I'll scream)

BEING DEPORTED FROM THE SUDAN
Could anyone possibly imagine being devastated to be deported from that country filled with maniacal ignoramuses?

And by the way, do we still finance part of their well-being? If so, I believe it should stop. Flip 'em a nickel and say sayonara, screwballs.

HAND ON THE TRIGGER OF THE BIG ONE
All we need is for a nut job to have his fist wrapped around the button for the big one. Does Ahmadidajitterbug come to mind?

To Largecaliber's question:
Yes.

NAME THAT TEDDY BEAR!
I was wondering why they didn't name him "Jesus" -- with a Spanish pronunciation. I think that would be endearing.

Was it just me?...
or did the teacher in this story seem eerily calm?

I have been wondering what meds she is on: Prozac?

A "Religion of Peace?" or a Religion of
the Perpetually P.O.ed?!!!

I really don't know who is nuttier, the ranting lunatics who wave torches and pitchforks at the slightest little thing, or the fools who explain their behavior away.

The more I know about their Bizarr-O World, the more I believe that they are the PittBulls of the Genus Homo Sapien.

What to do about PittBulls?

Either put them out of their misery, or get yourself a Rottie or a Mastiff to make mincemeat out of them.

Cluster Bombs
Were cluster bombs made for seething bloodthirsty masses of crazed islamofascist, or were seething bloodthirsty masses of crazed islamofascist made for cluster bombs?

clarity
There is the koran. There is the Hadith. They are available in English. The Hadith has the most hateful stuff. Mohammed said a lot of things, some peaceful, some hateful and warlike. Whatever comes last is the one you are supposed to follow. Sorry people but the warlike hateful stuff came later than the earlier peaceful stuff. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali says everything Osama says is in Islam.
Look up Amazon. Look up AyaanHirsi Ali. Look up the Hadith. Look up Robert Spencer. Look up The Al Qaeda Reader by Raymond Ibrahim.



svirk,
Why then haven't moderate Muslims spoken out against and doing something about what's going on with Islamic violence and intolerance around the world? Their silence creates the impression which causes distrust among Westerners. Polls show support in large numbers of terrorist activities in Arab countries. Muslims in this country also defend and make excuses for terrorists as well. With as many innocent lives that have been taken over the last few decades by Islamic fanantics, moderate Muslims should be leading the way in the fight against terrorism. Then we might believe Islam is peaceful.

One never knows
Which part of the koran a muslim has his thoughts into to obey,like dealing with a caged Lion, he could bite your head off at any time.
Or beat you to death for naming a toy mohammed.
---------
FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...

"HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?"



O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied with fighting for Allah's cause.(Sura 2:273)

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels , they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101).

Muslims are to arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere (Sura 9:5) .

"seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90).

"Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193).

"Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39).

"the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).



svirk writes:

That is exactly the sort of ignorant Islamophobic nonsense too many townhall.com posters are ....blah blah blah Are humans so easy to brain wash and fill with hate?

(Look to yourself for the answer)

The Quran preaches exactly the opposite of aurorawatcher's claim.

"It is the truth from your Lord; therefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve." [Quran 18:29]


Man must have freedom of conscience and be free to believe as he wishes.(unless one is not a muslim)


Saqib Virk

My pet pig
I named my pet pig Mohammad. It's fun to watch the filthy little swine roll in the mud. Mohammad will one day become many juicy hot dogs -- anyone for a Mohammad dog? It's really tasty on Jewish rye.

Free Ramos and Compean
HillaryFascism Awareness Week

svirk
The Koran teaches the opposite? Someone forgot to tell that to the Muslims of Sudan.

You say, "Man must have freedom of conscience and be free to believe as he wishes."

Does that go for the Teddy Bear lady? She believed it was ok to name a teddy bear muhhamed. How come some people wanted to stomp out her freedom of belief and put her in prison?

And just think
"Here we go again. Thousands of Sudanese Muslims took to the street last week to threaten death to a British schoolteacher in Khartoum.

Her crime? She inadvertently committed the felony of allowing her class to name a teddy bear “Muhammad.
----
Last week they were called moderates.

aurorawatcher writes:
> This is the major difference between
> Christianity and Islam. Our holy book does
> not give us permission to kill those who
> have not accepted Christ. The Korah gives
> such permission to Muslims and they naturally
> obey what their holy book says.

That is exactly the sort of ignorant Islamophobic nonsense too many townhall.com posters are nodding their heads up and down to. What is the matter with people when they resort to teaching each other outright lies on the right-wing "Apocolyptic Blogosphere"? Are humans so easy to brain wash and fill with hate?

The Quran preaches exactly the opposite of aurorawatcher's claim.

"It is the truth from your Lord; therefore let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve." [Quran 18:29]

"Surely We have revealed to you the Book with the truth for all mankind; so whoever follows the right way, it is for his own soul and whoever errs, he errs only to its detriment; and you are not a custodian over them." [Quran 39:41]

"And if your Lord had enforced His Will, surely, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Will you then force men to become believers?" [Quran 10:99]

Man must have freedom of conscience and be free to believe as he wishes.

Peace,
Saqib Virk

aurorawatcher
BTW, as an Hispanic born and raised in PR, I can tell you that the name "Jesus" is used in a reverent manner, and is basically the equivalent of "Jesse" here in the States. Many Hispanics use this name to convey honor in His name, not as a sign of disrespect.

I will agree, however, that Christians will not lift up a sword if our kindergarten class named their teddy "Jesus".

TheLeftIsNotUtilitarianEnough....
I am sure in your mind that it is ok to deny Gitmo detainees due process....its in the state's goals. I am sure you support the patriot act....its supports the state's goals. I am sure you support the war against a vague and diverse enemy called Islamofascists...it supports the state's goals.

No, we aren't on the road to serfdom....

And by the way, just for the record, as a conservative with libertarian tendencies, I actually support force to take out bin Laden.

The war in Iraq is a complicated matter, and the numerous things that erode liberty, and enhance state power is what we should worry about in the road to serfdom.

TheLeftIsNotUtilitarianEnough
"Hayek was never very concerned with nationalism"

Bubkis. His argument in the road to serfdom was there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the Nazis and the Commies.

He wrote a chapter in your "bible", called, "Why the worst get on top". He refers to the imposition of wills of one group on another occurs when "the mass", those with "low standards" put their weight behind some ideal...who are gullible and can be easily swayed into accepting some set of beliefs.

He writes: "It seems to be almost a law of human nature that it is easier for people to agree on a negative program....on the hatred of an enemy, on the envy of those better off...than on a positive task. The contrast between "we" and the "they", the common fight against those outside the group, seems to be an essential ingredient in any creed which will solidly knit together a group for a common action."

All we have to do is make the enemy Islamofascists, the the nationalists aspiring to the greatness of the US...neocons.


"He definitely shared NONE of today's libertarian beliefs in isolationism and pacifism."

Libertarians don't necessarily believe in isolationism....they believe in non-interventionism....meddling in other's foreign affairs. They believe this could lead to blowback. They don't necessarily believe in pacifism, either.....


As Thomas DiLorenzo writes:
It is not surprising that the self-described "godfather" of neoconservatism," Irving Kristol, has mocked and ridiculed what he called "the Hayekian notion that we are on the road to serfdom . . . . Neoconservatives do not feel that kind of alarm of anxiety about the growth of the state."

A Hispanic friend of mine named her son
Jesus -- after his grandfather. Does that bother me? No! Do I consider it taking Jesus' name in vain? Well, kind of. I understand why she named her child that, but I would not have. Just like when my non-Christian friends take Jesus' name in vain as swear word, I let it go.

Why don't I pull out a large sword and cut their heads off for defaming the name of my God?

Jesus tells me not to. Ultimately, when a non-believer dies without Christ, that's a tragedy to Jesus and to His followers. That person has chosen to spend eternity outside of heaven, which is hell. That is reason for mourning. So, a Christian who would kill a non-believer because they use God's name in vain would be working against God's will and that is something we should strive never to do.

This is the major difference between Christianity and Islam. Our holy book does not give us permission to kill those who have not accepted Christ. The Korah gives such permission to Muslims and they naturally obey what their holy book says. The worst a Biblically-based Christian will do to a non-believer is tell them the Gospel. Maybe that annoys some people, but they'll walk away completely intact unless they voluntarily choose to accept Christ -- in which case they'll be changed, but more alive than before.


A practical suggestion
VDH says: "What would stop this unhealthy teddy bear syndrome? Weaning ourselves off imported oil and therefore the need to appease those who have it."

I have a practical suggestion:

Let's post photographs of this teddy bear teacher, Gillian Gibbons, near every filling station and gas station in America, with a caption reading "BLOOD MONEY".

American motorists who are blissfully filling the big gasoline tanks of their SUVs should be reminded that they are paying so that Westerners like them can be threatened with death and/or flogging by those who have the oil.

UncleB
He named his dog muhammed? How insulting!

Poor dog. That borders on cruelty to animals.

Crumbs - Islamic history
Centuries of jihad under the caliphate from the 7th Century through the 10th. Go to Encarta and type in Islam, you'll learn a thing or two.

1978 Tehran, Islamic extremists overran the US embassy and held hostages for months. Jimmy Carter was president and George W Bush was either still in college or just getting started in business.

Beirut Barracks, Lebenon, 1980s, bombed by Islamic extremists. Ronald Reagan was president and I think George Bush owned a small oil company. But his father was the V.P. then. Don't know how much say GWB had in the administration.

World Trade Center bombing in 1993 (?), which was the presidency of Bill Clinton, by one of the main groups that would become Al Queda.

East African embassies bombed during the presidency of Bill Clinton, 2000(?), by Al Queda.

So, you see, there were numerous Islamic jihad-inspired attacks upon US citizens for a long time before GWB became president.

Maybe you need to read something besides Madd Magazine from time to time.

God Demands Revenge
When God's prophet is slandered there can be only one punishment. That the Muslims have latched on to a God that so often demands this type of action says a lot about the type of people they are. When your belief is that God will love you if you go into the midst of women and children wearing a C-4 overcoat trimmed with nails and blow yourself and others to smithereens then your religion is really,really deranged.

You can argue this is not the religion of most Muslims but the problem is that it is the religion of an appallingly high percentage of Muslims. Many muslims will say that the radicals have hijacked their religion. That is the best thing to say when you find yourself in a position of weakness. Were the Muslims to find themselves in a position of power would the story be the same? Look at the crowds in the Sudan waving swords and calling for death and tell me what you think.

extremism
Extreme religious zealots is not necessarily limited to muslims. That is why we should definitely be watchful to keep US government and religion separate. Religion and government should NEVER be mixed.

Remember the turmoil and upheaval in the US in the 60's. That was the era when the baby boomers reached teens and early 20ths. Our social fabric was stretched and tattered in that era. Many of the muslim states have populations where up to half of the population is under the age of 25. And their oil money is not being invested in their populace but sapped off by elites. Upheaval is to be expected. In their case extremeism in religious beliefs are becoming common place. This plus the tampering of the US in political land scape in that part of the world can only increase the unrest.

extremeism
Extreme religious zealots is not necessarily limited to muslims. That is why we should definitely be watchful to keep US government and religion separate. Religion and government should NEVER be mixed.

Remember the turmoil and upheaval in the US in the 60's. That was the era when the baby boomers reached teens and early 20ths. Our social fabric was stretched and tattered in that era. Many of the muslim states have populations where up to half of the population is under the age of 25. And their oil money is not being invested in their populace but sapped off by elites. Upheaval is to be expected. In their case extremeism in religious beliefs are becoming common place. This plus the tampering of the US in political land scape in that part of the world can only increase the unrest.

MLD and others
Just have a death wish or something. Most of these people are dangerous, and the more we give over to them, the more they demand!!
In Briton now, the nurses in the hospitals now have to take time out 5 times a day to move the beds of Muslims so that they face Mecca, and must furnish them with water to wash before and after prayers.
Children's books have changed the names of characters to appease them. Here in the States, they keep demanding special things done for them, and we keep meekly giving in. With each victory they push on to some other demand. It is revolting, and I for one am getting sick and tired of Islamists, and those who suck up to them!!

Not a sane apology
MLD writes what I have to think is the core of the leftist reaction to Islamic violence:

"...you lump ALL attacks by ANY Muslim as attributed to RADICAL ISLAM - conviently ignoring, for instance, that many of these attacks have been ON MUSLIM SOIL - against a US Military providing support for MUSLIM monarchs (Kuwait), Muslim Governments (Sudan), and Muslim thugs (Saudi Arabia). In your facile idiocy, you view the Palestinian liberation movement in the same light as Hezbollah or the Iranian Guard."

Ok, do an exercise for us, will you?

Head on over to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com, scroll down to the place where you see the text string, "List of Islamic Terror Attacks," and go through that list, identifying which of the attacks listed there are probably due entirely to Western interference.

By the way, while addressing the question of whether we're involved in the matter, this analysis will not explain why Muslims find it necessary to commit murders, whereas most other religions manage to find non-violent ways to resolve their differences (aside from Marxism, and yes, Marxism can be considered a religion).

(Unrelated to this thread, please read my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

Grace and Forgiveness are
so uniquely Christian values without which is hopelessness. The entire world will someday recognize these two pillars of life.

Not today though

heresyarch
"Yeah, TheLeftIsNotUtilitarianEnough has been a mystery to me. I think its a she.

She worships the ground Hayek stands on, even stating in one post if she were elected president, she would not place her hand on a bible, but on one of Hayek's texts ("Road to Serfdom", perhaps?)

Anyway, Hayek warned about the road we travel...nationalism unchecked. It amazes me, that she is not more Hayekian....er, libertarian.

But that will have to be clarified by her some day."

I did state in the post you refer to that the book would be "The Road to Serfdom." Its warnings against statism and appreciation of Western freedoms would make it, IMHO, the most appropriate book for any American office-holder to use it during a swearing-in ceremony.

Hayek was never very concerned with nationalism, either in the European sense (blood and land) or the American sense (common ideals the nation is based on). He was EXTREMELY concerned about the tendency he perceived in the 1930s and 1940s toward statism, which is not at all the same thing as nationalism.

Statism is the belief that only government is competent and wise enough to run our lives--politically (as in commanding what we should say and believe, PC anyone?--economically (as in government control over every economic decision being made)--culturally--as in controlling the subject matter of all the arts and entertainment, education, history, science, etc.)

He was not a libertarian. He specifically said in his essay, "Why I am not a Conservative," that he wasn't. He called himself "an unreconstructed Whig."

He definitely shared NONE of today's libertarian beliefs in isolationism and pacifism. He appreciated the fact that the world's most truly free society was also the world's most powerful society and was very deeply involved in world affairs.

Military
"Your posts are wasted."

That summarizes it. I'm just surprised you admitted it.

Islamofascist attacks on Americans have been deliberate, systematic, and truly evil.

What is it about terrorism or Islamofascism or anti-Americanism you don't understand?

Apparently everything.

Military Lovin Dogg writes....
"As to TheLeftIsEvil - he's a moron - why would I bother with HIS tripe?"

Yeah, TheLeftIsNotUtilitarianEnough has been a mystery to me. I think its a she.

She worships the ground Hayek stands on, even stating in one post if she were elected president, she would not place her hand on a bible, but on one of Hayek's texts ("Road to Serfdom", perhaps?)

Anyway, Hayek warned about the road we travel...nationalism unchecked. It amazes me, that she is not more Hayekian....er, libertarian.

But that will have to be clarified by her some day.

Massively Loopy Dip writes:
IOW - anyone who disagress with you...

No, just those like you and the others who have a much less than firm grip on reality.

"Moderate" Muslims
Ever meet someone who says they're Catholic, but never goes to church, or prays? Ever meet a "Christian" who can't even recite 2 of the 10 Commandments? Or a Jew who eats pork?

Therein lies the moral equivalent to a "moderate" Muslim. A moderate muslim is just someone who's a muslim in name only, but doesn't practice his religion. The ones who do, are the ones doing all the killing.

Names
What about people naming themselves or children Mohammed. If the man named mohammed doesn't become a super scientist or doctor or general at what point in that mans life should the muslim populace become self rightously angered.
I don't remember his name but there is an artist that drew a picture of a dog with mohammeds head on the dog. I saw not long ago that he got himself a dog. He named it mohammed. I find it very funny. And, I don't give a da*n what anybody thinks about that.

Shells writes:
Lumberjack
I'm still shaking my head. I just don't get how people like him exist without bumping into walls everyday, because their depth of perception is completely flawed.

I'm not sure who's worse in that respect Masively Loopy Dip or truly ridiculous (t-r). Neither one seems to have a firm grip on reality, but then again neither does Hal Doofus, or Rockhead J. Squirrel (Robert).

Lumberjack
I'm still shaking my head. I just don't get how people like him exist without bumping into walls everyday, because their depth of perception is completely flawed.

Loving Dogg
You are a walking breathing apologist.

You said: "If I said you judgement on Muslims is guided by your extreme racism, you'd call me an idiot - so stop being an idiot."

So, since you can't nail me, you do the one trigger reaction every frothing liberal does when their arguments hold no water, "RACIST!"

Youch! No MLD, I am no racist. I just simply hate "EXTREMIST JIHADIST" who wishes death and has enacted violence and murder to the western world which is made up of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Gays, Straights, and everyone who does not subsribe to their methods or ideals.

I will never apologize my dislike or contempt for the terorrists. And I will not backpeddle my thoughts being told I am a racist for having pride in my country, pride in my religion, and wishing to defend them both.

That does not make me a racist. That just makes me not an apologetic self hating coward.

And the blatant fact you can't even read what TheLeftIsEvil wrote completely proves what a stereotypical liberal you are.

Massively Loopy Dip writes:
to sum it all up - you're an idiot who only sees what he wants to see... which is a perfect description of yourself.

Shells writes:
Do me a favor, read the LeftisEvil many posts here and every example he spent time to site the extremists ruthlessness and bloodlust. Go ahead. Or will you dismiss it and claim because in the western history of Time Life Books a cowboy shot a man just for snoring, that we deserve what's happening to us now and we are no better than them at present day?

You are making a major assumption about Massively Loopy Dip, and that is that he can read words of more than one syllable, understand what the polysyllabic words mean, and can effectively read for meaning.

Wharf rat
I think you should tell your neighbors that when news hits the stands like when Somali taxi drivers in Minnesota insisting on "their right" in the US to not transport people with dogs, nor people with seeing eye dogs, nor people carrying liquor, nor people under the influence of liquor, nor homosexual couples, that they should march in the streets to express their disagreement with this kind of sharia law coming to the US. Similarly when CAIR sues individual Americans who were intimidated on a plane and notified the airline of their concerns, they should march in the street in protest. Silence in American law means agreement and consent.


Military Dogg
First you quote me: "So, that being said, let me understand you. Your argument is that what is happening in the world of today has absolutely no bearing because in history, we did some naughty things too? And because we had isolated incidents of violence by idiots, that excuses what the extremists are trying to do to us today? Is that it?!"

Then you say: "No Shells, what I'm saying is that before we call a Billion strong religion insane for a couple hundred protesting a woman over a teddy bear, let's look inward to a country that hung black men for looking at a white woman the wrong way."

Isn't that what I just said?! I mean, didn't I convey that point?! You just told me No Shells and you just confirmed my point.

Look, with all due respect, you're being a nudnik. Your judgement is so clouded by your liberal propaganda and hatred of this country that you yourself can't see how irrationally you defend the absolute irrational.

You say: "But I guess - as far as YOU'RE concerned, screaming in the street is FAR worse than dropping bombs on sleepy villages."

Are you for real? Who got to you when you were young thinking of the world around you and ruined your head?

Do me a favor, read the LeftisEvil many posts here and every example he spent time to site the extremists ruthlessness and bloodlust. Go ahead. Or will you dismiss it and claim because in the western history of Time Life Books a cowboy shot a man just for snoring, that we deserve what's happening to us now and we are no better than them at present day?

Man Loving Degenerate
That's not my Mama. Your girlfriend sprung a leak!

They're not going to change
Hanson's a smart, well-educated guy, but he still doesn't really understand Islam very well. Most Muslims are not, repeat, not, going to change to become like us. In particular, they are not going to become nice tolerant Western-style liberals. Hanson shows the limits of his understanding of Islam in the following quote from his column:

"Politely informing Muslims that Westerners believe the norms of free speech and expression are to be uniformly applied. No one religion or region gets a special pass."

Those "norms" he mentions have little or no resonance for many, perhaps most, Muslims. Conservatives used to know that the Western belief in such norms took many centuries to develop, that it is the result of a very specific historical path followed by the West, and not by Islam. Because Muslims know with absolute certainty that their religion is the only true religion, they believe that their religion should indeed get a "special pass." They are not about to imagine themselves making judgments from "our" point of view. The "norms" of tolerance are Western norms, and we must be prepared to defend the way of life which makes them possible.

I'll repeat my suggestion here, as I do whenever I write on Islam. Read British conservative philosopher Roger Scruton's book "The West and the Rest" (ISI 2002). It will make the crucial issues clear to any reader.

Evil Leftists hate America
Gilbert and Sullivan had Evil Leftists on the Lord High Executioner's "Little List" in "The Mikado:

"Then the idiot who praises,
with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this,
and every country but his own"

VDH has his own way of expressing disdain for this sentiment:

"Decades of multiculturalism have brainwashed Europeans and Westerners into believing that Islamic furor must be judged in a special cultural context, or is only understood through some real past grievance, usually dating back to the Crusades.

Sometimes apologists dredge up Timothy McVeigh or violence in Northern Ireland as if to prove that supposed Christian-inspired terrorism is just as much a world danger as jihadism. We know it isn’t, but such moral equivalence sounds liberal and might calm down the mob.

Other times we drag Iraq into the conversation and say the armed removal of Saddam radicalized Muslims — as if the fatwa against Salman Rushdie or 9/11 followed the outbreak of that war."

Military--the beauty of the Internet...
... is that you and your Evil Leftist buddies can't send the history of Islamofascist terrorist atrocities down the Evil Leftist memory hole.

All details on Islamic anti-American atrocities on the last four posts were taken from:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm

Lesson: Do not challenge TheLeftIsEvil's searching skills. I'll win. Every time.

The west gets its morals from the Bible
The Bible is not a political book. The Koran is a political book.
If some one wants to come to my culture and break social and legal norms I am going to ask for legal action. They have the same opinion. It is just that value death of infedels as much as I value legal retribution.
ANY ONE includeing my self that goes to a Islamic country deserves what they get. If you stick you heand in a hornets nest you WILL get stung.

More anti-American terrorist attacks 5
Kidnappings in Kyrgyzstan, August 12, 2000: In the Kara-Su Valley, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan took four U.S. citizens hostage. The Americans escaped on August 12.

Church Bombing in Tajikistan, October 1, 2000: Unidentified militants detonated two bombs in a Christian church in Dushanbe, killing seven persons and injuring 70 others. The church was founded by a Korean-born U.S. citizen, and most of those killed and wounded were Korean. No one claimed responsibility.

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected.

Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000: A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the U.S. Embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front was likely responsible.

Philippines Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001: Muslim Abu Sayyaf guerrillas seized 13 tourists and 3 staff members at a resort on Palawan Island and took their captives to Basilan Island. The captives included three U.S. citizens: Guellermo Sobero and missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham. Philippine troops fought a series of battles with the guerrillas between June 1 and June 3 during which 9 hostages escaped and two were found dead. The guerrillas took additional hostages when they seized the hospital in the town of Lamitan. On June 12, Abu Sayyaf spokesman Abu Sabaya claimed that Sobero had been killed and beheaded; his body was found in October. The Burnhams remained in captivity until June 2002.

More anti-American terrorist attacks 4
Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible.

More anti-American terrorist attacks 3
Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997: Three suicide bombers of HAMAS detonated bombs in the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing eight persons, including the bombers, and wounding nearly 200 others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among the dead, and 7 U.S. citizens were wounded.

More anti-American terrorist attacks 2
Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995: Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995: HAMAS claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.

HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996: In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew up a bus, killing 26 persons, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring some 80 persons, including three other US citizens.

Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996: HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

More anti-American terrorist attacks 1
Bombing of UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989: A bomb explosion destroyed UTA Flight 772 over the Sahara Desert in southern Niger during a flight from Brazzaville to Paris. All 170 persons aboard were killed. Six Libyans were later found guilty in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment.

Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia?s home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.

World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.


MLD
I admire your courage for standing up against the imperialistic american pig dogs. If only you had been around in the 1940's. Under your vision, we could have avoided being involved in foreign entanglements and allowed Hitler to end the Zionist threat to the world. As for Japan, it was only a few soldiers on soil that wasn't even American! We should have just cut our losses and allowed the Japanese their playground in Manchuria.

What a better world your vision and isolationism would have brought us! Nazi Germany would have eliminated both the Zionists and the Muslims while the Japanese would have kept the Communists down. The loss of Australia, the Phillipines, France, the United Kingdom, et al would have been a small price to pay to preserve American lives and keep our military at home where they belong.

Military Islamic attacks on America 4
On Oct. 7, 1985, off the coast of Egypt, four gunmen hijacked the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro and demanded the release of Palestinian prisoners in Egypt, Italy, and elsewhere. When the demands weren't met, they killed Leon Klinghoffer, a 69-year-old disabled American tourist. Investigators blamed the Palestine Liberation Front, which some believed to be allied with Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization. Later, U.S. officials were able to link Libya to the PLF and the hijacking.

In 1986, an American soldier was killed when a bomb was detonated at La Belle, a discotheque in West Berlin known to be popular with off-duty U.S. servicemen. A Turkish woman was killed, and nearly 200 others were wounded. U.S. intelligence sources identified Libya as being responsible for the attack.

Pan Am Flight 103 from London to New York exploded over the small town of Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people on board were killed, along with 11 on the ground. According to the State Department's "Patterns of Global Terrorism, 1991," released in April 1992, the bombing of Pan Am 103 "was an action authorized by the Libyan Government."

Details on the atrocities posted here and above were pulled from:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cr on.html


Military Islamic attacks on America 3
In 1984 in Aukar, northeast of Beirut, a truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. Embassy annex killing 24 people, two of whom were U.S. military personnel. According to the U.S. State Department's 1999 report on terrorist organizations, elements of Hezbollah are "known or suspected to have been involved" in the bombing.

Also in 1984, Kuwait Airways Flight 221, on its way from Kuwait to Pakistan, was hijacked and diverted to Tehran. The hijackers demanded the release of the Kuwait 17. When the demand wasn't met, the hijackers killed two American officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development. On the sixth day of the drama, Iranian security forces stormed the plane and released the remaining hostages.

In 1985, TWA Flight 847 was hijacked en route from Athens to Rome and forced to land in Beirut, Lebanon, where the hijackers held the plane for 17 days. They demanded the release of the Kuwait 17 as well as the release of 700 fellow Shiite Muslim prisoners held in Israeli prisons and in prisons in southern Lebanon run by the Israeli-backed South Lebanon Army. When these demands weren't met, hostage Robert Dean Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, was shot and his body dumped on the airport tarmac. U.S. sources implicated Hezbollah.

Military Islamic attacks on America 2
Kidnappings of Americans by Islamic terrorists:
William Buckley was the fourth person to be kidnapped by militant Islamic extremists in Lebanon. The first American hostage, American University of Beirut President David Dodge, had been kidnapped in July 1982. Eventually, 30 Westerners would be kidnapped during the 10-year-long Lebanese hostage-taking crisis (1982-1992).

Americans who were kidnapped included journalist Terry Anderson, American University of Beirut librarian Peter Kilburn, and Benjamin Weir, a Presbyterian minister. While some of the prisoners lived through captivity -- Anderson spent the longest time as a hostage, 2,454 days -- some, including Buckley, died in captivity or were killed by their kidnappers.

U.S. officials believed that the Iranian-backed Hezbollah was behind most of the kidnappings.

Military Islamic attacks on America 1
"Do tell, Mr Historian, since Jefferson and before 9/11, exactly how has MILITANT Islam harmed America?"

Let me count the ways:

1. Fifty-two American citizens were taken hostage in Tehran in 1979. My how time flies and we forget.

2. Muammar el-Qaddafi had plans to assassinate American diplomats in Rome and Paris in 1981. Reagan busted his chops before he could act.

3. In 1983, suicide bomber in a pickup truck loaded with explosives rammed into the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. Sixty-three people were killed, including 17 Americans. Clearly, there's a pattern forming here.

4. Also in 1983, a suicide bomber detonated a truck full of explosives at a U.S. Marine barracks located at Beirut International Airport; 241 U.S. Marines were killed and more than 100 others wounded.

5. And again in 1983, the American embassy in Kuwait was bombed in a series of attacks whose targets also included the French embassy, the control tower at the airport, the country's main oil refinery, and a residential area for employees of the American corporation Raytheon.

Dogg crap
Whew! Thank God that it was only millions of innocent Indochinese slaughtered for the mirage of a Communist utopia. What ever were we thinking trying to prevent such atrocities? After all, you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs, eh comrade? As always, your superior liberal wisdom and compassion leave me humbled.

Man Loving Degenerate
Well, if it isn’t The White Trash, America Hating, Alcoholic!

Crumbs4Brains
What about The USS Cole?
What about The Marine Barracks in Beirut?
What about The US Embassy Bombings?
Were you born stupid, or were you taught to be in The Public Schools?

Some loopy folks
Ok, to start with Boutte:

Almost right. But if you had the documents from the last meeting of the Jews For World Domination, you would realize we didn't start the agitation for Darfur, we just started committing genocide there, then waited for the left to whine about it. Silly Boutte, we Joooos are much more clever than you think!

Crumb: Right! Leon Klinghoffer and Pan Am 103 both happened after we invaded Iraq. As did 9/11 and the Lebanon barracks bombing. And all those wars against Israel. And the conquest of Spain and north Africa and the Balkans. Until Bush invaded Iraq all of Islam was just a bunch of happy people who never raised a fist in anger.

Mellor: Yes, Jihad just means "happy fun time". And Islam has no interest in a convert or die strategy. That is why I can go to Mecca tomorrow. And why they happily allow all those missionaries into Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Islamic nations. They are just poor misunderstood waifs! When we say "I will kill you", it means just that, but when they say "I will kill you" it just means "give me a hug, big fella!" Right!

Who forgot to give the wingnuts their meds today? The loonies are out in full force.

Military
To equate American conservatism to Islamic conservatism is to equate day to night.

"Conservative" means you want to conserve something. And in human history, those were many things:

American conservatives wish to conserve America as a politically and economically free society.

Islamic conservatives wish to conserve Sharia law.

Communist conservatives wish to conserve Communism.

European conservatives wish to conserve aristocracy and monarchy.

Traditional tribal people wish to conserve their traditions.

Do you get it now?

Rock Strongo writes:
> svirk
> "This far from the truth. Mocking Jesus is
> likely to get one in almost as much trouble
> as mocking Muhammad in those parts of world
> that take such mockery seriously. Muslims
> love and respect Jesus."
>
> As the numerous examples of Christians around
> the world beheading those who mock Jesus so
> vividly illustrate.

Perhaps you misunderstood. I was trying to say that those sorts of Muslims who get riled up enough to commit violence when Muhammad is insulted are almost as likely to get riled up if Jesus were insulted in a similar fashion. I was taking issue with the ignorant implication of the author that Jesus is, or could be, mocked by Muslims.

Once upon a time Christians did treat blasphemy as a punishable offense and even as a capital crime. I guess Christianity was a vile and evil religion that deserved to be wiped out back in those days? Or is it that the religion has not changed but the Christians of today understand and practice it better? Would I be permitted to argue the same for Islam... that many of the fanatical Muslims of today had their "witch" burning Christian counterparts in the past and that neither group can be used to denounce the actual teachings of either religion?

To this the learned scholars of Islam on townhall.com will proclaim, "ya, but Islamic scriptures distinctly preach such and such." To which I will reply, do you know the Bible clearly states that those who commit blasphemy deserve the death penalty while the Quran contains no such directive. I might also add that if you believe Jesus and God are one and the same then it was Jesus who once ordered death to blasphemers.

Peace
S Virk





svirk
I crossed the Saudi border in a truck- admittedly a long time ago- and was told that any Playboy magazines or Bibles (didnt have either) would be confiscated and that either would earn a prison term in the Kingdom. I found people in the Arab world were generally accepting of the fact that people raised in a Christian society were Christians, what horrified them were people who casually admitted that they had NO religious beliefs. Anyone who has spent any time in the Middle East has seen a side of Islam that is very admirable. However, as the modern world intrudes more and more and the extremists on both sides take over the argument the more ugly aspects of both societies are becoming apparent. The bottom line is that the Islamic criticism of our empty, Godless consumerism is as valid as our criticism of their rage and misogyny.

crumbs
Another cultural relativist liberal who hates America and doesn't understand cause/effect relationships.

Militant Islam predates the existence of America by over a thousand years. Militant Islam is the cause. America BEE EYE ITCH slapping militant Islam is the effect.

Be wise and learn.

"We wouldn't be in this mess if it wasn't for the war mongering, christian/jew, republican, neocons who over-reacted its mission by starting a holy war across the globe."

No more cultural relativity
Cultures are NOT equal. It's time we face the fact of American cultural superiority over theocratic states. Let's follow VDH's excellent advice:

"What would stop this unhealthy teddy bear syndrome?

— Weaning ourselves off imported oil and therefore the need to appease those who have it.

— Politely informing Muslims that Westerners believe the norms of free speech and expression are to be uniformly applied. No one religion or region gets a special pass.

— Supporting human rights abroad and offering some constitutional alternative in the Middle East to theocracy and dictatorship that both encourage Islamic radicalism.

— And remaining militarily strong."

svirk
"This far from the truth. Mocking Jesus is likely to get one in almost as much trouble as mocking Muhammad in those parts of world that take such mockery seriously. Muslims love and respect Jesus."

As the numerous examples of Christians around the world beheading those who mock Jesus so vividly illustrate.

Rock Strongo
Best to ignore ignorant hate mongers such as Dogg Crapp. Too bad that he isn't stuck in one of Stalin's Siberian gulags, which may for a change bring some education to his diseased brain.

sovereignjim writes:
> Internment Camps
> When do we get the guts to repeat what we did
> with Japanese living in the US during WW II?

Did you mean to ask when you can begin to act like the hate filled paranoid Sudanese fanatics mentioned in the article? It seems you have much in common with them already but let's pray the majority of Americans don't adopt your insane thinking.
Peace,
S Virk





The only long term answer
Hansen writes:

"What would stop this unhealthy teddy bear syndrome?

— Weaning ourselves off imported oil and therefore the need to appease those who have it.

— Politely informing Muslims that Westerners believe the norms of free speech and expression are to be uniformly applied. No one religion or region gets a special pass.

— Supporting human rights abroad and offering some constitutional alternative in the Middle East to theocracy and dictatorship that both encourage Islamic radicalism.

— And remaining militarily strong. "


How about simply destroying this parasitic succubus of a religion? Islam is an abberation, a scourge on mankind ever since its inception in violence by a mentally unstable maniac. It has made absolutely no contribution to mankind's store of knowledge of either the spiritual or physical worlds. All it has done for 1500+ years is to war with everyone, even itself. Islam is a bankrupt philosophy/religion (words which in themselves are a grotesque application to the truth for what this movement is and has been throughout history) that has no place in the modern, spacefaring world of the future. It WILL eventually get its well deserved place on history's defunct crap pile.

soverignjim
Yes, the solution to irrationality is to round up and arrest hundreds of thousands of innocent people and put them in concentration camps. I guess I owe Sadik Virk an apology of some sort. There's not enough pent up anger in THIS society to drive people completely crazy but another mass-death terrorist incident might do the trick.

Jim-- we have a legal tradition that people are only imprisoned after their convicted of a crime. FDR violated that tradition to our shame and disgrace.

sedonaman
Yeah, I was going to mention the Barbary coast war, but crummymind blames big bad Dubya for that too.

Have you noticed...
Has anyone noticed that the Muslim reaction to insults is very similar to black reactions to any perceived insult by whites?

Saqib Virk Is Right
That raging mob in Khartoum was just celebrating giving their six year old daughters clitorectomies with unsterilized Exacto Knives and the murder of their older daughter's unacceptable boyfriend. Exposure to modern media and the incredible political and economic oppression that are standard features of most Islamic societies create the need for an outlet, in the form of officially sanctioned hatred and rioting directed against foreigners. The regime in Sudan, engaged in genocide in Darfor, is one of the worst human rights violators in the world. Women have the same rights as livestock and are sexualy mutilated as young girls to prevent them from enjoying sex. We should all be very understanding of these ancient traditions, of course.

Internment Camps
When do we get the guts to repeat what we did with Japanese living in the US during WW II? Today Muslims living here are ten orders of magnitude more dangerous than the WW II internees. Also if it was against the law for communists to advocate the overthrow of our government why is same logic not applied to those who preach the same thing vis-vie Islam?

aspacia writes:
> The Qu'ran and Hadiths do indeed assert that
> Jihad is violent struggle against the infidel,
> especially Jews.

That is an ignorant lie.

> Oh, yes, it is condoned to lie to one's wife
> and enemy in Islam, and we are the enemy
> folks."

Again, that is ignorance on your part but since I am a Muslim I guess you will assume I am lying. How convenient for you.

Peace,
Saqib Virk



Dogg crap
"We're also the county - might I remind you, so scared of the communist threat 40 years ago, that we invaded a peasant society and killed hundreds of thousands (and some say millions) with our bombs, our napalm, our artilary and our defoliant."

Oh yeah, that imaginary "Communist threat."

You mean the one that slaughtered more people in the first two years of the Communist "peace" than died on all sides in a decade of war?

I suspect that the thousands of vietnamese who died at sea trying to flee the new benevolent communist regime, as well as the millions of Cambodians slaughtered by the Khmer Rouge might have a difference of opinion as to just how much of a threat the Communists posed.

authors error
The author writes, "There are certain unspoken rules of the game behind all these incidents. The first is the lack of reciprocity. Christ can be mocked in the Middle East without any consequences."

This far from the truth. Mocking Jesus is likely to get one in almost as much trouble as mocking Muhammad in those parts of world that take such mockery seriously. Muslims love and respect Jesus.

Also, the Quran teaches Muslims how to react to mockery of religion or blasphemy.

"And HE has already revealed to you in the Book that when you hear the Signs of God being denied and mocked at, sit not with those who indulge in such talk until they engage in some other talk; for in that case you would be like them. Surely God will assemble the hypocrite and the disbelievers in Hell, all together." [Quran 4:140]

You will note that it does not state, "when you hear the Signs of God being denied and mocked at, attack or kill those people". Those Muslims that attempt to persecute alleged blasphemers are acting contrary to the teachings of Islam... not to mention basic common sense and human decency.

Peace,
Saqib Virk




Boutte
Seriously, do you check under the bed for knife wielding jews before you go to sleep?

You are a typical representation of the irrational/borderline schitzo, Jew hater.

You see the jews behind everything. A woman names a Teddy Bear Mohamed, and gets tossed in jail. Your response? Blame the Jews! You have a sickness my friend. And I am beginning to fear that there is no cure.

Military
Your inability to draw clear and sensible distinctions is frightening to me.

Do you really think American Christians are no different than Sudanese Muslims. Do you think we would want to murder a teacher for naming a Teddy Bear Jesus?

I know, in your world, all religion is equally insidious and dangerous. That is a good part of your problem.

Tens of thousands of comfortable Christians, willingly shrug off that comfort to travel to the third world and help the masses, by feeding them and teaching them to read, for starters. These are places where just being Christian can get them killed.

You want to continue comparing the two religions? Fine, but understand that you do so our of your profound ignorance. In this modern age, Christianity and Islam are nothing alike.

crumbsmine
Radical islam fundementalists are what they are and their interpretation of their religion is what it is going back centuries. Blaming their reactions on President Bush and republicans is beyond rediculous.
Islamic scholars such as Bernard Lewis have ventured the opinion the more recent extreme reaction is a direct result of their awareness of how far behind they are from all the advances of modern western culture and the humiliation that brings. Many think going back to the fundementalism of the 13th century when they were a great power is the answer.

The frog is in the pot
.....and the frog will boil slowly.

The jihad in the West is insidious.

Our "good friends" the Saudis have financed the majority of Mosques in AmeriKa to spread their brand of Islam. These so-called "moderate, peaceful" Mooslims in the U.S. are all part of the plan. Once the operatives and the numbers are in place, the winds of change will blow.

Wake up people. Mooslims have no intention of co-existing with Jews and Christians, et al.

And where's the voice in America of "peaceful" Mooslims' outrage against the radicals? Crickets.....Crickets....

crumbsrmine:
"Prior to GW the only time I heard the name Mohammed was when I watched boxing. ... GW is the born again christian who decided to engage all muslims in a holy war."

You aren't going to learn much history by watching boxing.

When Thomas Jefferson and John Adams inquired of Tripoli’s ambassador to London what the US had done to justify their hostilities (enslaving both crews and passengers of American shipping), they were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their (Moslems’) authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Moslem should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

Last time I checked, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams came long before George Bush.


Sven's Geography
Sven, VDH uses the three countries as examples, not as a limiting set. The article is about Muslim reaction to Christian missionaries to the Muslim world. Lebanon is, last I looked, in the Muslim world. Nice try, thanks for playing.

MLD
Indeed, you yourself serve as an example of what I was talking about.

First you claim that American conservatism is analogous to Middle Eastern "conservatism" in it's intolerant, hateful guise.

I countered that American conservatives have more in common with Middle Eastern liberals than YOU do.

And look what happened!

Instead of condemning the un-liberal behavior of the Sudanese, you rush to their defense with the old canard of bringing up stuff from America's history.

See?

According to your "logic", we conservatives should be supporting the Sudanese "conservatives".

Yet it is YOU who are doing that. Some liberal.

Going to work...

Shells: Re The Dogg Pile!

That's just about all we can expect from the Dogg Pile. In fact, that's as good is it gets.

LOL

MLD
"Please - do we REALLY have anything over those Sudanese "savages" or do you prefer to pretend that America NEVER experienced it's own savage violence?"

Hmm, America as a country has been around since 1776.

People have inhabited the region of Sudan oh, since before recorded history.

And this is the 21st Century.

What's their excuse?

Koolhand
Geez, Koolhand, just where is Beirut? I can't seem to find it in Saudia Arabia, Sudan or Pakistan. Is yours a very special geography taught in the government schools?

Military Dogg
Come now, my self hating friend.

You can show me google links of our atrocities 100's of years ago and I can show you more. But why stop with us, let's just include every country for that matter, right? If you want to discuss Tit for Tat of the past, and see who wins The Most Evil Award, I think we'd come in 5th or 6th.

Now, if you wish to discuss todays fresh events, I sure would happen to say, as most cognitive people do, that our winner happens to be the extremists.

So, that being said, let me understand you. Your argument is that what is happening in the world of today has absolutely no bearing because in history, we did some naughty things too? And because we had isolated incidents of violence by idiots, that excuses what the extremists are trying to do to us today? Is that it?!

Go to the Sudan then, give them a nice basket of pears from Harry and David, tell them you're sorry for you being an American and a Jew, and see how well they embrace you.

For Wharf Rat
There is some difference of temperament amongst the 1300 millions Muslims:
(1) those Muslims whose ancestors were FORCED converts (which includes the vast majority of Muslims in an area bordered by the Nile, Gandak, Tapti and Oxus rivers) tend NOT to be peaceful
(2) ones whose ancestors were VOLUNTARY converts (southern India, Bengal, Southeast Asia) tend to be more peaceful and tolerant of neighbours; indeed, it is oft that their CULTURE will trump their religion

Even these two philosophies DO NOT mix--as was shown during "Operation Searchlight" in 1971!

Thanks, another homerun, true. One Q...
Another Great article by VDH. But the last sentence..was that a typo or purposefully to get the reader pondering its significance?

Clearly the leader of Iran has been 'wanting' the bomb for some time now. We do not need to wonder when that might happen.

Or was it suppose to say the nut in Iran 'waving' (like the teddy bear protesters' swords) his hand over the button to Launch the Bomb? You are so correct on the western wimpy accomodation syndrone in speech and unfair fairness. Thanks again.


MLD
Your tortured use of the words "liberal" and "conservative" in the Middle Eastern context do not translate to their Western connotations.

Middle Eastern "liberals", the ones who are more secular, tolerant, capitalistic, "hip", and democratic have far more bonds formed with American "neocons" and the like than with American and western left wing radicals who often seem to make common cause with the most un-liberal people in the Middle East.

For example, conservatives generally side with Israel. Israel is a modern, "liberal" western style country, replete with gay pride parades and rock and roll concerts.

Liberals, American ones, generally take common cause with those who oppose Israel. Religiously intolerant, backwards head choppers and suicide belt wearers.


Koolhand
Beirut, Lebanon used to be a fairly liberalized place. You will recall that David Dodge, the president of the university, was kidnapped in 1982.

The 9th president of the university, Malcolm Kerr, was assassinated in 1984.

In 1991 the university's main administration building was completely demolished by a bomb.

In Saudi Arabia, a foreigner found in possession of a Bible faces, at best, immediate deportation.

A Saudi national found in possession of a Bible will automatically be assumed to have converted to Christianity, and the penalty for that is beheading.

VDH's assertions are spot on. Christians and Westerners working the Middle East place themselves in mortal danger by chosing to work there. Middle Easterners working in the West need fear little more than traffic accidents.

Victor's Middle East History
VDH says "But to send missionaries to, or build a new church in, Saudi Arabia, Sudan or Pakistan is to court death."
An historian like VDH knows that there have been US missionaries to the Middle East since we've been a nation. See "Power, Faith and Fantasy" by Michael Oren. Oren describes the US attitudes toward the ME since 1776 have been little changed, the comments thus far could have been made in the 1800s and often were.
If missionaries court death to go to the ME, whence American University in Beirut? Victor has a tendency to ignore facts that don't fit his premise. Perhaps he forgot?

Then they wonder why
many think they are nothing but a bunch of fanatic nut cases, no common sense, kinda like crumbsrmine!!!

And then the was Boutte
Another weak minded individual who will now blame it all on the Jews and excuse and water down the Muslim reaction to the Teddy Bear.

"A rather silly woman makes about the worst cultural faux pas you can commit in a strict Muslim country, and is let off with a couple of days in the pokey, End of."

If it was the ultimate worst in cultural faux paus, why did the kids name it Mohammed? Don't you think they would know better as well? Or could this just be a case of a western woman being the target of an insane culture and this was a good excuse as any to give her 40 lashes, prison time and death? Don't you think the children would've gotten the same treatment? Why weren't they punished for the oh so terrible cultural faux paux in that strict Muslim country?

So, you think this Teddy Bear incident was instigated by the Jews agitating Sudan? OMG are you far reaching.

Just face facts, my little Paul-Lite who happens to be losing in this race, you are a bigot and are the stereotypical fan of Ronnie that we all laugh at.

"The BBC reported that the demonstrations against Mrs Gibbons were orchestrated and good-humored: there are always lots of lads with too little to do available to go on a protest march, but most Khartoum residents knew nothing about it- the media made little of it."

Oh I see. So her being in prison for 15 days due to the classroom of Muslim students naming a Teddy Bear was simply good humored? If no one had intervened, her 40 lashes would've been a belly buster, right? So those fun loving humorous Muslims chanting in the street for her head on a platter was simply orchestrated by un-employed persons with nothing better to do that day and decided to have a neighborhood block party of roll playing?

You're deeply sick. You excuse this behavior and yet you find a way to point it all back to the Jews. No wonder you excuse them, they want the Jews to die just as much as you.



Peaceful Muslims
I finally have to drop in on one of these articles purporting to disclose liberals' pro-Islamic-radical bias.

No self-respecting human being is particularly fond of thousands of Sudanese Muslims calling for the execution of the Teddy Bear Blasphemer. "Several thousand" is hardly a ringing endorsement of capital punishment for defaming Mohammed. In contradistinction to the rabid media coverage of the small number of idiots in Sudan wanting to behead an innocently erring grammar school teacher, when literally millions marched in the streets around the world before Dubya's invasion of Iraq, they were simply written off as fringe radicals who hate America and didn't represent any real constituency. If Sudanese came out in a couple of millions, I'd be far more impressed with this article and its critique of militant Islam.

Anecdotaly, I'd also like to point out that I live in an ethnically, economically, and religiously diverse neighborhood in Queens in NYC. I have some Muslim friends and acquaintances from several different countries. All of them--who I've found to be honest with me in expressing their views on many issues-- are embarrassed by the actions of the religious nuts in Sudan. The decent, honest, hardworking people of the Muslim faith--whom I trust implicitly not to be covert agents of Bin Laden-- have no voice in the media and are tarred by the extreme actions of the few Muslims who go over the top with extreme religion-centered beliefs.

Crumbcake
Open a history book, oh wait...You probably read the edited history books that children like you are fed. Nevermind.

Watch the news if you can pull yourself away from what MTV tells you. Islamic extremism has been with us long before your Blame It On Bush tripe was injected into your veins.

Those exremists are insane and have always been. Yes, our cultures differ and we must all celebrate and applaud our differences, right?

So, let's give three cheers to the Prime Time Be-Headings!

Let's give three cheers to the disembowlment of citizens with minor offenses!

Let's give three cheers to the laws that promote gang raping a woman anytime as punishment against a family member!

I could go on, but what would it matter? You're lost. You think the insanity was birthed from the moment Bush was put into office. These people have always murdered in the name of Allah all over this world and still are.

You never heard of a Mohammed until Ali? Shows what an ignoramous you are. Just shush and let the adults talk now. Get a cookie and sit down.


The left is right
Just because Muslim men, for the sake of honor, stone to death their own mothers, daughters, and sisters if they are raped, we can't jump to rash conclusions about Islam. Yes, Muslim rape of women in Europe is exploding, but it's all understandable, isn't it?

Sure, since 9-11 Muslims have murdered innocent civilians in Russia, Netherlands, Thailand, Egypt, France, Iraq, Indonesia, Pakistan, Spain, the US, Jordan, France, England, Israel, and Sudan (to name only a few of the countries). But surely most Muslims want only peace and understanding through tolerance and compassion.

Yes, Islam conquered and occupied Byzantium, Spain, Greece and herded millions of Europeans into slavery and concubinage, but let's not draw conclusions from ancient history either.

Let's just submit.

crumbs

If the first time you heard Mohammad was when you watched boxing, you must be very sheltered or you did not keep up with news.

Ever hear of Black Muslims?

I have to agree with Phil, your history knowledge is limited, based on your comment.

Mellor SJ2
Your source, Ally, is misleading you. The Qu'ran and Hadiths do indeed assert that Jihad is violent struggle against the infidel, especially Jews.

The USC.edu website has three translations of both for further insight. If you read them, you will discover that many Muslims are simply lying to you regarding their book. Oh, yes, it is condoned to lie to one's wife and enemy in Islam, and we are the enemy folks.

crumbsrmine writes...
"Prior to GW the only time I heard the name Mohammed was when I watched boxing."

I have no doubt that's true. Unfortunately, you remain just as uninformed and uneducated. Too much tv??

To crumbsrmine
You must be a young kid with no knowlege of history but with a bad case of Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Willy Victor 32
"Can you enlighten us poor readers who haven't gotten to the library as yet -- two sentences explaining Walid's viewpoint?"

Aly's viewpoint is that we interpret what we see and hear in terms of our own cultureand this has deleterious consequences.

He illustrates this by (among many examples) discussing the meaning of 'jihad' which means 'struggle', and particularly internal struggle to find god and do right. We tend to translate this as 'holy war' and then--and this is crucial--apply our own background of the Crusades to give the term meaning.

Another example he offers is that there is no centralized church hierarchy as there is in xianity. This means that any imam can declare what *he believes* to be the revealed truth under the assumption that word of god is fundamentally inscrutable--we can only try our best to interpret it.

Such a pronouncement is called a 'fatwa.' Again, we interpret this in terms of our culture--a centralized church--and see such as the religion, rather than the opinion of one person.

Aly points out that fatwas can be trivial. Can I, a muslim man living in the west, wear an earring, for example? The answer (over the internet, BTW) was revealing. No, because *they* do it, and we must not behave like them--the same kind of defiant victimhood professed by some in the ghettos.

The author makes the point that muslims and xians are "People Like Us" and it is our arrogance in assuming our own cultural framework that inhibits communication. It goes both ways.

http://www.panmacmillan.com.au/picador/display_title.asp?IS BN=9780330423809&Author=Aly,%20Waleed

The excerpt on that page is good, but doesn't quite reach the point (it's from the first chapter).

2 more cents
My apologies for being so verbose on the previous post. I could have better expressed myself by quoting the first sentence of the piece:

"Here we go again."

Mellor SJ2
Can you enlighten us poor readers who haven't gotten to the library as yet -- two sentences explaining Walid's viewpoint?

my 2 cents
Islam is a religion of peace

In the belief that each would be met at the gates of paradise by 72 virgins, 19 followers of Islam commandeered 4 airplanes full of nonbelievers and killed themselves along with the infidels.

islam is a religion of peace

Thousands of Sudanese Muslims took to the street last week to threaten death to a British schoolteacher in Khartoum.

islam is a religion of peace

I would say that the headlines around the world over the last 15 years don't really support such a statement.

islam is a religion of peace

Excuse me?

re: Duh Basics
"The jihad has been going on since Mohammed, and was started by same."


Prior to GW the only time I heard the name Mohammed was when I watched boxing.
GW is the born again christian who decided to engage all muslims in a holy war.

crumbs
You can't be serious! The jihad has been going on since Mohammed, and was started by same.

re: Paula Jo
Listen up

We wouldn't be in this mess if it wasn't for the war mongering, christian/jew, republican, neocons who over-reacted its mission by starting a holy war across the globe.

if
If saving face is so important to them, perhaps telling them that they come across as savages and barbarians and "less" might help. The media always reports to America on "the street" of Khartoum". It doesn't seem to report to Khartoum "the street" of America.
Prager has said that some societies are concerned with right and wrong and other societies are concerned with "shame" and saving the society/family from shame is what allows men to kill daughters they suspect of talking to a man. It is a values question. I like our values better.Inviting people to live here when they have a high birth rate and when they don't share our values might be as successful as inviting a piranha into a goldfish tank.





good article
listen up liberals

Well done, VDH
I would note that "jihadism" is not a word. It's "jihad." Using the former term is itself an appeasement of the tyranny of Allah.

"Islamic radicalism" is Islam. We know this because Mohammed -- called by Allah a "beautiful pattern of conduct" -- commanded his people:

"the Messenger of Allah . . . would say: 'Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war. . . . When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. . . . Invite them to (accept) Islam . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya . . . If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them . . .'" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4294).

The only thing most of these
radicals understand is violence. The USE our tolerance AGAINST us. The LOVE when some IDIOT apologizes for our 'misunderstanding.'

They have issued their warning already.

If we don't convert - we die.

WHAT is so hard to understand about that? They EXPECT us to convert or KNOW we will die.

Be prepared for more of the same.

Talking past each other
The author needs to read "People Like Us" by Waleed Aly. Much is explained there.
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