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Thursday, October 18, 2007
Victor Davis Hanson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Congress' New Role: Undermining U.S. Foreign Policy
by Victor Davis Hanson
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The president establishes American foreign policy and is commander in chief. At least that’s what the Constitution states. Then Congress oversees the president’s policies by either granting or withholding money to carry them out — in addition to approving treaties and authorizing war.

Apparently, the founding fathers were worried about dozens of renegade congressional leaders and committees speaking on behalf of the United States and opportunistically freelancing with foreign leaders.

In our past, self-appointed moralists — from Charles Lindbergh and Joe Kennedy to Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson — have, from time to time, tried to engage in diplomacy directly contrary to the president’s.

But usually Americans agree to let one elected president and his secretary of state speak for the United States abroad. Then if they’re displeased with the results, they can show it at the ballot box every two years in national or midterm elections.

But recently hundreds in Congress have decided that they’re better suited to handle international affairs than the State Department.

The U.S. Senate late last month passed a resolution urging the de facto breakup of wartime Iraq into federal enclaves along sectarian lines — even though this is not the official policy of the Bush administration, much less the wish of a sovereign elected government in Baghdad.

That Senate vote only makes it tougher for 160,000 American soldiers to stabilize a unitary Iraq. And Iraqis I spoke with during my recent trip to Iraq are confused over why the U.S. Congress would preach to them how to split apart their own country.

Then, last week, the House Foreign Affairs Committee passed a resolution condemning Turkey for genocide against the Armenian people, atrocities committed nearly a century ago during the waning years of the Ottoman Empire.

If the entire House approves the resolution, the enraged Ankara government could do everything from invade Iraqi Kurdistan — in hot pursuit of suspected Kurdish guerrillas — to curtail U.S. over-flight privileges and restrict use of American military bases in Turkey.

This new falling-out could interfere with supplying our soldiers in Iraq. And it complicates a myriad of issues, from the NATO alliance to Turkey’s bid to join the European Union.

The speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, earlier this year took another hot-button foreign-policy matter into her own hands when she made a special trip to reach out to Syria’s strongman, Bashar Assad.

That visit to Damascus was played up in the government-run Syrian press as proof that ordinary Americans don’t feel that Syria is a state sponsor of terrorism. Never mind that the Assad dictatorship helps terrorists get into Iraq to kill American soldiers, is suspected of involvement with the assassinations of journalists and democratic leaders in Lebanon, and recently had bombed by the Israelis a facility reported to contain a partially built nuclear reactor.

What are we to make of a Congress that now wants to establish rather than just oversee U.S. foreign policy? Can it act as a foil to the president and so give our diplomats leverage abroad with wayward nations: "We suggest you do x, before our volatile Congress demands we do y?"

Maybe — but any good is vastly outweighed by the bad. Partisan politics often drive these anti-administration foreign policies, aimed at making the president look weak abroad and embarrassed at home.

House representatives too often preach their own district politics, less so the American people’s interest as a whole. What might ensure their re-election or win local campaign funds isn’t necessarily good for the United States and its allies.

And too often we see frustrated senators posture in debate during televised hearings, trying out for the role of chief executive or commander in chief. Most could never get elected president — many have tried — but they seem to enjoy the notion that their own under-appreciated brilliance and insight should supersede the collective efforts of the State Department.

So they travel abroad, pass resolutions and pontificate a lot, but rarely have to clean up the ensuing mess of their own freelancing of American foreign policy.

Congress should stick to its constitutional mandate and quit the publicity gestures. If it is unhappy with the ongoing effort to stabilize a unified Iraq, then it should act seriously and vote to cut off all funds and bring the troops home.

If the House wants to punish Turkey for denying that its Ottoman forefathers engaged in a horrific genocide, then let congressional members likewise deny funds for our military to stay among such a genocide-denying amoral host.

If Speaker Pelosi believes that Syria is not a terrorist entity but a country worth re-engaging diplomatically, then let her in mature fashion introduce legislation that would resume full American financial relations with our new partner Damascus.

Otherwise, it’s all talk — and dangerous talk at that.

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About The Author
Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and a recipient of the 2007 National Humanities Medal.

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The Judicial, Legislative and Executive
Are all CO-EQUAL branches of our Federal government as established by the Constitution of the United States of America and I think it is about time we have a president who is willing to make sure the other two understand this. The first candidate that makes this clear gets my vote in 2008!

why no bipartisan foreign policy?
If Congress (read Democrats) are underming US foreign policy, it is because the neocons have for the last twelve years carried out partisan domestic policies that have mostly benefitted the rich. Now the neocons want bipartisan support to spend billions of the taxpayers money abroad on what is rightly call a quagmire, money that could be used for schools, roads, education at home. As O'reilly would say "ridiculous."

chaka zulu
As all liberals are wont to do, instead of sticking to the subject, you want to change the subject from the logical and morally correct criticism by Mr. Hanson of Congress as a whole and individual congressmen, who are overstepping their constitutional responsibilities and duties by usurping the constitutional rights of the President and State Department, Instead, you illogically bring up all the things that make you mad, such as the "neocons" (who are these neocons?) failure by using all this money to "foolishly" protect the U.S. from terrorism and their failure to do what you want, that the money be used for schools, roads, education at home, etc., all subjects that are important in their own right, but hardly provided for in the Constitution. It's awful trying to follow the Constitution, isn't it? It would be so much nicer if you could just wish all the things you want to be done, so messy having to follow Constitutional principles.

Mixed Messages
With Nancy Pelosi setting a poor example and leading the pack (2007 Mideast Tour), many in congress seem to be suffering from self-will run riot! How can we expect the rest of the world to take our positions any less serious than they do now if we fail to speak in a unified voice? These antics can only serve to weaken America both home and abroad!

http://klintons.com


Constitution?
What does the Constitution have to do with anything anymore? To Democrats, it is a hindrance in their unrelenting quest for power, and to Republicans, it has less meaning every year. God help us.

Hanson's opinions
Victor David Hanson is one of the most well regarded historians in the USA and has been for many years. He heads up the Hoover Institution and also chairs the WAIC, an organization that's made up of some of the most skilled practitioners in many disciplines, from all sides of the political spectrum, science, government, corporations, lawyers, physicians, educators, it's a group of highly intelligent and thoughtful people.

His well reasoned article speaks to the divisions of our Government, the Powers of the President and the role of Congress. While it is true that we have 3 branches, each has their own place and role. Congress is not empowered to act as President, Secretary of State or General of the Army. Every second and minute that they spend in interference of those entities is another second, minute and hour wasted when they should be doing the jobs that they have sworn to do, legislating.

They are no longer legislating in the interests of our country when wasting valuable time and resources voting for resolutions which have no bearing on improving conditions for our troops, our people and our lands.

Until any of them is actually voted into the President's office, they ought to respect the will of the people who did vote him in, like him and his policies or not.

We cannot have any sense of unity or purpose if the flight attendant is trying to fly the airplane. We have elections in 2008 and that's our system of government. There is no room for organized mayhem under the baton of a woman gone mad with her new found power.

Pelosi is the problem because she has no solutions. The solution is to do what she and her PARTY PROMISED TO DO WHICH THEY HAVE YET TO DO, and that's to legislate.


Here, here...
They talk too much. And "neocons", as far as I can tell, is the new "vast right wing conspiracy" catch phase of the left. I believe this was chosen because "fascist brownshirted bootjacks" was already taken and was too long to ennunciate anyway. Another good one for the neoleft is to just spell out in all caps "BUSH"; this gets them frothing. Economy "bad"? BUSH! Iraq? BUSH! Habeus corpus? BUSH! Leftwing radio host falls over her dog? BUSH!Car broke down on the way to work? BUSH!

The Logan Act
When anyone other than the president or his designated representatives takes one of these little unauthorized foreign policy junkets, they are in violation of the Logan Act and should be tried as the criminals that they are.

I think this law should apply whether it's merely an annoying loon like Dennis Kucinich, or a treasonous punk like Jimmy Carter.

Nothing more to say
The outrageous behavior of Nancy Pelosi and the Dems literally leaves me speechless. It's not enough that Jimmy Carter is a lunatic, the Dems have now moved Congress into the lunatic fringe.

The resolution about Turkey was nothing but stupid, meaningless symbolism with evil intent. It may unsettle the Middle East beyond any hope of repair for the next hundred years. Turkey has been a key ally in the region and one of the most stable and moderate democracies there and the Dems, in a fit of pique against Bush, may have undone it.

Those who voted for that resolution are foreign policy idiots and moral lepers.

Plankton Inhabit Congress
Kudos to Victor Davis Hanson on a fine article; one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

Obviously for Congress, just like getting a driver's license, there is no IQ test for admission or for licensure. That becomes evermore clear every day. We now have grapes sitting in Congress who heard of the U.S. Constitution, but never actually read; it was mentioned in their high school civics class. And for those who may read it, they chose not to follow it. This includes both Democrats and Republicans. There are very few exceptions such as Ron Paul. Politicians need to follow the Constitution or we need to replace them with someone who will, period.

And now for some good news
Granted, only one little piece, but....

RE San Fran Nan's trip to Damascus to kiss Assad Jr.'s ring, one of her companions and enablers, U.S. Representative David Hobson (RINO-OH), has announced that he will not seek re-election. He says that "nine terms is enough".

As one of his constituents, to whom he lied face to face during his first term, I maintain that nine terms was eight too many. For the record, I voted for him-the first time. Since then, I have left that chad on my punch-card unpunched in the general election, after always making a point of voting for whoever ran against him in the primary. I wasn't about to vote for the local Democratic Party's candidate (invariably chosen not by local Democrats, who are mainly moderate, but by the state party committee, who think that the only problem with Hugo Chavez is that he can't run for POTUS), but I had no intention of giving any support to Hobson, either.

The MSM is making a good bit of hay about how many GOP members are not running for re-election this time around, but I think they need to look closer. So far, most of the dropouts have been the ones who voted with the Democrats more often than with their own caucus, no matter how often they claimed to be "conservatives", "moderates", or anything other than "progressives". Like Davey-Baby.

I have a sneaking suspicion that when the primaries are over, and their successors are picked, the MSM will probably be surprised at what kind of Republican candidates replace the now-rapidly-vanishing RINOs.

And they will be alarmed.


cheers

eon

impact
Meaningless ? I've read some responses to their resolution bt a lot of Armenians who would very strongly disagree. Remember how hot the Jews got when some nut said the holocaust was a hoax? Besides almost all the democracies around the world have done the same thing. Also, if we want to be factual, the Iraq war has been proven many times over, is the biggest flop in our war against AQ, remember them, the ones who attacked us?

Pelosi is a pretender
You can't have a representative of the opposition party over there talking to Syria (for example) possibly saying something like "Make these next two years really bad for our President, and we will reward you handsomely when we take over the White House..." This is why the President is given these powers, and not the Congress. Nancy should have been arrested. She is an embarrassment. Although maybe Bush realized that and it is why he has given her such latitude.

Her nickname should be Nine Percent Nancy.

Don't think the Dem's political prospects didn't come up in the Assad meeting, if only fleetingly.

Finally, how would you feel if you learned that Iranian scientists were close to perfecting a strain of AIDS so virulent that it could be transmitted by mosquitos? We have always trusted nations to act with self-preservation in mind, but with the state of scientific knowledge in the world today, this trust can no longer be given willy nilly. An any nation that harbors terrorists cannot be trusted. Iran is the biggest exporter of terror in the world. WE cannot allow dictatorial regimes to harbor terrorists, and therefore we need to be involved in the MidEast, at least for now. Democracy in Iraq makes alot of sense to me.

What goes around
Assuming Hillary C gets into the White House she is gonna have to defend this country. How is she gonna do that having pulled these kind of stunts? What will she do when the terrorist stike on her watch? Words have consequences. There will be a recconing.

Federal Budget
We all should be aware of how much Congress has enhanced its own payroll and associated benefits since the 1960s, but I would like a report on the costs added annually to the national budget for all of these overseas "adventures" of members of Congress, from both parties! The only way to bring down the national debt through budgetary surpluses is to watch the PENNIES of expense wasted (although the costs of all of these Congressional junkets is in the multiple millions...which I guess to Washington IS pennies). There are Executive Departments of our government to gather foreign intelligence and inform Congress, and there needs to be only that expense, OR rewrite the damn Constitution into a parliamentary system, but we can not afford duplication of costs at any level of our government.
In addition, I absolutely agree with a MANDATORY retirement age for our legislative "patrons"; there is a designated minimum age of service, and there should be a maximum one as well!

Are Open Borders Foreign Policy?
Probably not, I guess. Has Jorge Bush said anything about the Pelosi resolution or can he not pronounce "Pelosi?" Any phone calls from Bush to Pelosi? And if he cannot stand up to the illegals, he certainly has no backbone to stand up to the Demos. After hugging Kennedy, he told Ted he was going to call him "Tubby" -- okay?

TeeHall
Rediculous Post!!!

Not one thread of sense in your post!!!

Actually Willie
TeeHall did have ONE thread of sense--mentioning the fact that Bush had tried to get a blanket-amnesty granted last year (and failed).

Immigration issues certainly can be tied to foreign policy; the shamnesty granted in 1986 by Reagan counted as (probably) Gipper's second-worst foreign policy blunder (his worst was in rescuing Arafat from Beirut to Tunis).

Comments
The more important problem, mentioned in passing, is that one does not have to produce a valid ID in order to vote. This is arrant jackassery of the first water. One must produce a valid photo ID in order to cash a cheque, get an airline boarding pass, get a rental car, and in many cases, check into a hotel for which one has a reservation. These are but a few examples. The idea that a valid photo ID is not required to vote, is breathtakinly stupid.

There is no rationale whatsoever to support the idea that the United States should be the only country in the world that does not control its borders. Not only do all other countries so do, but the country to immediately to our south enforces draconian laws to control its borders. Just ask any Guatemalan who has tried to enter Mexico illegally, if he or she be still alive.

A person who has entered this country illegally is no more an "undocumented immigrant," than a person who robs you of your money at gunpoint is an "undocumented tax collector." An illegal alien is a person who has broken the law. A person who breaks the law has committed a crime, and people who commit crimes, are criminals.

It matters not one whit to me whence a person came to this country. Those who come here, and stay here illegally, are criminals, and I want them gone. Amd for those who say that enforcing immigration laws is only the business of the federal government, not state and local agencies, I submit that obeying and enforcing our laws is the duty of every United States citizen.

Taft
No one is saying that the slaughter of the Armenians didn't happen, what we are trying to say is that the Congress is out of bounds in trying to run its own foreign policy. They do not have that power or authority to do so, and their little ego trips are going to prove costly. We cannot send mixed messages to our allies in that region that the White House is supportive on one hand, but that the Congress is at odds with them. Congress should do just as Mr. Hanson says, if they want to impact foreign policy they should use their Constitutional powers to do so, not run around trying to undermine US policy for their own partisan ends.

Monitor YOUR Congress!
Overview
The American Conservative Union is the nation's oldest and largest grassroots conservative lobbying organization. ACU's purpose is to communicate and advance the goals and principles of conservatism through one multi-issue, umbrella organization. ACU's Statement of Principles expresses our commitment to a market economy, the doctrine of original intent of the framers of the Constitution, traditional moral values, and a strong national defense.
http://www.conservative.org/

oops
Meant my comments for a thread about driver's licenses for illegal aliens. As for this particular thread, I seem to remember that it was Mark Twain who called congress "America's only native criminal class."

Hell
"But recently hundreds in Congress have decided that they’re better suited to handle international affairs than the State Department."

I could do a better job than the pathetic pac-led state dept!

Is it hypocrisy?
Just last week the Republicans were saying we will print any damned cartoon we want, and if Moslems don't like, too bad. don't be so sensitive, ect...


grrr
Anytime I say that politicians need refresher courses on American government my brother in law says they get a refresher course every time they have to run an election. But really, lawyers, doctors, teachers all require continuing ed. Send Nancy Pelosi to a remedial course on government. Send Murtha to a remedial course on libel and slander laws.

Instead of rage...
--
...the current Turkish government needs to dismiss the DemaGOP Congress of these United States with derision and contempt.

The DemaGOP majority inside the Beltway's red light district are desperate to make noise. The trick is to stress a 20th Century *filled* with genocide, literally and figuratively, almost all of it at the hands of the same socialists whom the American Leftists idolize.

There's no need to gainsay the severity of the systematic murders of the Armenian population within the Ottoman Empire, but that particular page of the book of butchery has to be viewed in the same bloody context that it was inked.

Here, Dr. Hanson, your professional perspective would be particularly valuable, wouldn't it?

--


What about Bush?
Apparently some buddies of Bush's (Hunt Oil) are trying to make oil deals with the Kurds which is causing a great deal of conflict between the Iraqi government and the Kurds and threatens to derail any possibility of national reconciliation.

But of course, you don't hear any conservatives complaining about that.

So typical.

It's this kind of blind partisanship that is making the GOP irrelevant. People simply don't trust people who can't find it in themselves to criticize one of their own. And for good reason. People who can't be self critical never fix their mistakes. They just keep going on creating one new disaster after another.

Phylo out.

Phylo, I agree that the Republicrats...
--
...are irrelevant.

This kind of crap, however, makes their DemaGOP comparators *more* relevant precisely...how?

--

wasting time
For those of you who believe this resolution is acceptable because you dislike the current State Department leadership, keep in mind that EVERY SINGLE LIVING former Secretary of State wrote to Congress urging against this resolution. Anyone who works in the diplomatic arena knows this is a horrible idea.

As far as Congress goes, did you see the tongue lashing President Bush gave yesterday? He certainly has his own issues, but good for him with this:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071017.ht ml

War and corruption
Once again Federal agents are investigating large American companies, (Sara Lee and ConAgra) that are charging excessive prices for supplies to US troops. Recieving guidance from the Army Center of Excellence the Army had designated specific companies to provide food with companies who hired former military officials to use their clout to win lucrative contracts. Seems a bit unpatriotic but not if they vote Republican....

Phylo and Crumbs
How does pointing out the many failings of corrupt or incompetent RINO's excuse or justify any illegal or unconstitutional actions on the part of a neoliberal, leftist, or Democrat? Quit bringing up the Straw Man Arguments and discuss the matter at hand.

If any member of Congress oversteps his or her office and violates the Constitution, he or she should be punished. We are a nation of laws, not feelings. It may feel good to have Congress pass a resolution condemning actions of the past but if it is not within the Constitutional Powers, it is illegal.

I doubt you would be singing the same tune if President Hillary Clinton decided that China's attitude toward women was unacceptable and declared China anathma causing Republican Speaker of the House Rush Limbaugh meet with China's leaders to discuss ways of circumventing her Foreign Policy.

As it stands, your posts are interpreted as nothing more than partisan attacks, the same thing you claim to hate, since you never criticize anything the left does and constantly rationalize and justify any action of any neoliberal or Democrat.

Congress
The American people polled say that Bushes rating is 24,Not bad for all the bad press he gets.However congresses rating is 11 despite all the favorable press they get. GOD BLESS AMERICA

Deornwulf
"If any member of Congress oversteps his or her office and violates the Constitution, he or she should be punished."

You mean like Scotter Libby? He didn't spend much time in jail.

Also which law did this resolution break?


for Military Lovin' Dogg
Military Lovin' Dogg wrote: "Congress has EVERY right to pass WHATEVER resolutions it sees fit. That one of our "allies" goes into a snit has NOTHING to do with our congress and EVERYTHING to do with the nature of a war that geroge Bush has built on a complete house of cards."

FYI, when Bill Clinton was President, he opposed this same type of Congressional resolution too. Because back then, he needed Turkey's support to help with enforcement of the no-fly zones over Iraq. The same issue came up back then; and he was just as opposed to it as Bush is now.

It is not specifically a question of the Iraq War. It's a question of whether we are going to infuriate a nation that has been an ally of America since the end of World War II, one that Presidents of BOTH parties have tried hard to avoid alienating with resolutions such as these.

Taft???
I sure hope that Deornwulf does not respond to that. It only illustrates your inability to debate the topic....



Also which law did this resolution break?



None,but stupid and superfluous..and only meant to make things hard for Bush. Therefore not in the best interest of this country.


You mean like Scotter Libby? He didn't spend much time in jai...????

I guess I was unaware that Scooter was in congress?

One more thing!
Taft, for the record, Scooter Libby was not an elected official, he was an appointed one. Furthermore, he was convicted of perjury, not of violating the Constitution of the United States. Bill Clinton was guilty of the exact same crime and yet you seem willing to give Bill a free pass.

VDH
‘The president establishes American foreign policy and is commander in chief. At least that’s what the Constitution states.’ That part about foreign policy; really? Where? I cannot find American Foreign Policy anywhere. I cannot find Foreign Policy anywhere. I cannot find Foreign Relations anywhere.
At any rate, as I understand your position, a War on a Foreign Sovereign Nation is not part of the undefined foreign policy? What is it? Congress declares war and provides the money do they not?
Congress is to define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed at sea and Offenses against the laws of other Nations. (That sure sounds Foreign.) Congress makes the rules for the Military Branches and individuals who serve in Foreign Countries. But those are not policies, right?
In fact, as I remember, there is little the acting President can do other than ask permission and forgive lawbreakers. Commander and Chief is little more than title, especially when he knows nothing about battle.
Can he truly be Commander and Chief when he clearly may be prohibited from his wishes by either the Congress, the Supreme Court or both? He can’t make rules can he? When everything else is spelled out, why is the President’s rule making authority not enumerated? Does Commander and Chief allow him power to do what ever he can get away with? Wow.
So, Congress Declared unprovoked War on a Sovereign, Foreign Nation, but that is not Foreign Policy. I certainly have been misunderstanding the Constitution. But then again, it is a ‘living document’ and subject to interpretation as we go along.
I believe granting the President permission to kiss you does not grant him permission to take your pants off nor do other things for which permissions are not granted. Further, you may revoke that permission at anytime as may Congress.

Phylo - Didn't realize that!
"It's this kind of blind partisanship that is making the GOP irrelevant. People simply don't trust people who can't find it in themselves to criticize one of their own. And for good reason. People who can't be self critical never fix their mistakes. They just keep going on creating one new disaster after another".

I did not realize the Democrats were leading the way to show how this is done! Can you direct me to some reputable literature on this fact? i.e. self critical introspective review of how Democrats conduct business and how it influences their future policies.

Inquiring minds want to know!

It never ceases to amaze me...
...how you can have an excellent article, written by VDH in this case (who has forgotten more about history, government and foreign affairs than the entire US leftwingnut establishment will ever know), that nails it perfectly where this idiotic "resolution" is concerned, and here come the same old barking moonbats like Phylo de MicroPhallus, Military Hating Snoop Dogg, crumbsforbrains, etc, ad nausean, spouting the same old BDS-derived lies.

And what's worse, not only are they lying, the drivel they spout are not only total Bravo Sierra, but utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Oh well, I have yet to see one of these dingdongs show enough cognitive ability to think their way out of a New Orleans cat house, so I guess it's too much to expect them to stick to the fracking point in question...

Josey Wales
I did not realize the Democrats were leading the way to show how this is done! Can you direct me to some reputable literature on this fact?


Try reading Noam Chomsky's Survival or Hegemony.
That might give you a thing or two to think about.

crumbsrmine writes:
Try reading Noam Chomsky's Survival or Hegemony.
That might give you a thing or two to think about.

Yeah, how stupid Chomsky really is.

Chaka, thanks for reminding us...
...not only how the dems are too petty, immature, and unfit to be anywhere near the Oval Office, but their pathetic excuses for why. Not that I needed reminding myself.


"If Congress (read Democrats) are underming US foreign policy, it is because the neocons have for the last twelve years carried out partisan domestic policies that have mostly benefitted the rich." - chaka zulu

DNC Dimwits
Nancy Pelosi is drunk with power and should be censured. Liberals in Congress HATE AMERICA AND THE MILITARY and should be SHOT! If you ever need a brain transplant, get a TownHall Liberal Poster’s Brain, that way you will be getting a brain that hasn’t been used!

it's not ALL the dems fault!
Pelosi tried, but...

From HumanEvents 03/20/07:
For it was Pelosi who quietly agreed to strip out of the $100 billion funding bill for Iraq a provision that would have required President Bush to seek congressional approval before launching any new war on Iran.
Why did Pelosi capitulate? Answer: She was "under pressure from some conservative members of her caucus, and from lobbyists associated with neoconservative groups that want war with Iran and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC),"
"Last week, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi received a smattering of boos when she bad-mouthed the war effort during a speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and the Democratic leadership, responding to concerns from pro-Israel lawmakers, was forced to strip from a military appropriations measure a provision meant to weaken President Bush's ability to respond to threats from Iran."

Consistency
Once again, my biggest problem with liberals here is consistency. A party governed by adherence to ideology and core values need never be concerned with failing to be consistent.

The Democrats are showing that the acquisition of political power is far more important to them than in sticking to core values.

Case in point, why the sudden need to pass a resolution about Turkish history some nearly 100 years distant? The Armenian stuff happened during the Ottoman Empire, predating Modern, democratic Turkey as we know it now.

[sarcasm]Of course, angering an ally nation that hosts 70% of all airlifted supplies into Iraq probably didn't figure into the Democrat's designs here...[/sarcasm]

But did you catch John Edwards criticising Hillary for voting to identify the CURRENTLY OPERATING (not 100 years ago) Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a terrorist organization? Did you notice that?

So, the priority is to anger an ally nation over something that happened before anybody alive today was born OVER identifying a TERRORIST organization of an rogue nation that kills people in and out of Iran almost on a daily basis.

What is the motivation here? Adherence to core values or political manuevering?

Deornwulf
Deornwulf writes: Thursday, October, 18, 2007 12:07 PM
One more thing!
Taft, for the record, Scooter Libby was not an elected official, he was an appointed one. Furthermore, he was convicted of perjury, not of violating the Constitution of the United States. Bill Clinton was guilty of the exact same crime and yet you seem willing to give Bill a free pass.
+++++++
I understood your point to be that we are a notion of laws and should abide by them. Hence, Libby, and his thumbing his nose at the law.

As far as Bill goes, I don't give him a free pass, and I've pretty much decided I just won't vote at all if it comes down to Hillary and the R. She would probably be better, but thats not saying much.

Also, you should be a little more angry with the R leadership, it seems, than the D. Look at the Hellish Pandora's box they got us into in the first place. Our president yesterday threatened WW III, holy cow!

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS ....
I think this article will broaden the spectrum of Congressional stupidity - and in spades when it comes to "international" ramifications:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071008/EDITORIAL/1 10080005/1013

This is something everybody should become aware of.

re: Lumberjane7392

Yeah, how stupid Chomsky really is



Nothing is more stupid then following another lemming off a cliff, that would be you!

oh please
I got several responses to my earlier post in which I wondered where the outrage is over Bush's buddies(Hunt Oil) damaging our efforts in Iraq by making oil deals with the Kurds.

All of them said, oh come on Phylo, the Dems never criticise themselves either.

First of all, I'm not talking about politicians. I'm talking about pundits.

And I defy anyone to find a story as big as that one that THE ENTIRE left wing blogosphere has systematically ignored, as the ENTIRE rightwong blogosphere has ignored this story.

Another story that the ENTIRE rightwing blogosphere ignored was the fact that the White House's premature leak of the latest Bin Laden video compromised a private intelligence agency's (SITE) ability to track members of al Queda.

I can gaurantee you that you won't find any reference to either story anywhere on Townhall.com. Nor will you find any reference to these stories by the rightwing radio hosts.

If the NYTimes had leaked that Bin Laden video, does anyone here seriously doubt that it would have been non stop talk about what treasonous traitors they are, and how we ought to hang from the nearest tree?

Please, the right is far more self deluding than the left.

Phylo out.

Deputy Dogg and his ilk...
"You guys have NO credibility..."

And, all of you neoloons do?

PUHLEEESE!

Phylo...
I have the MOST ignored story.

Gaza's Darkness
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/757768.html

Gaza has been reoccupied. The world must know this and Israelis must know it, too. It is in its worst condition, ever. Israel Defense Forces has been rampaging through Gaza killing and demolishing, bombing and shelling, indiscriminately.

In large parts of Gaza nowadays, there is no electricity. Israel bombed the only power station in Gaza, and more than half the electricity supply will be cut off for at least another year. There's hardly any water. Since there is no electricity, supplying homes with water is nearly impossible.

And we still haven't mentioned the death, destruction and horror. In the last two months, Israel killed 224 Palestinians, 62 of them children and 25 of them women. It bombed and assassinated, destroyed and shelled, and no one stopped it. No Qassam cell or smuggling tunnel justifies such wide-scale killing. A day doesn't go by without deaths, most of them innocent civilians.

Hospitals are collapsing with more than 900 people undergoing treatment. At Shifa Hospital, the only such facility in Gaza that might be worthy of being called a hospital, I saw heartrending scenes last week. Children who lost limbs, on respirators, paralyzed, crippled for the rest of their lives.

Families have been killed in their sleep, while riding on donkeys or working in fields. Frightened children, traumatized by what they have seen, huddle in their homes with a horror in their eyes that is difficult to describe in words. A journalist from Spain who spent time in Gaza recently, a veteran of war and disaster zones around the world, said he had never been exposed to scenes as horrific as the ones he saw and documented over the last two months.

crumbsrmine writes:
re: Lumberjane7392

Yeah, how stupid Chomsky really is

Nothing is more stupid then following another lemming off a cliff, that would be you!

I read it. As a commentator on the US and foreign policy, Chomsky should stick to semantics.

ROBZUC
"Neoleft." I like that, but "Neolib." would be much better. Liberals used to be for capitalism, freedom, equality and the USA. Today's liberals champion socialism, government intervention in all aspects of our lives, special interests (to the exclusion of our own citizens) and above all a seething hatred for the United States of America.

Neolibs are irrational, emotional and they never, EVER let facts get in the way of their argument.

Phylo
As usual, you're way off base. Hunt oil is a private business and can seek deals anywhere they want in the world that isn't under sanction. That's capitalism (which I know you hate). Hunt oil isn't making foreign policy by dealing with people that we happen to loath.

There's a difference between the private sector and the government. You don't seem to understand that so I thought I'd clue you in. You seem to be a man devoid of even a rudimentary education.

A Video about the rule of law
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/?campaign=pb shomefeatures_1_frontlinebrcheneyslaw_2007-10-16

"For three decades Vice President Dick Cheney conducted a secretive, behind-closed-doors campaign to give the president virtually unlimited wartime power. Finally, in the aftermath of 9/11, the Justice Department and the White House made a number of controversial legal decisions. Orchestrated by Cheney and his lawyer David Addington, the department interpreted executive power in an expansive and extraordinary way, granting President George W. Bush the power to detain, interrogate, torture, wiretap and spy -- without congressional approval or judicial review."

Constitutionalist?
If Mr. Hansen is so concerned with the Constitution, where's his outrage over the Constitution-altering Patriot Act and illegal wiretapping? I must have missed that editorial.
I am fine with anything that keeps Bush in check. I wish we could put him in a big playpen until his term has ended so as to prevent him from doing more damage to the presidency, the Constitution and the country.

Wayne
Excuse me? "Constitution-altering?" Please explain to me how the Constitution was altered by that act, or in any way even bypassed. Be specific now, Wayne, because I don't accept psychobabble as evidence.

Resolution is nothing new...
The Republican run Congress of 2005 also passed the same Armenian Genocide Resolution in the House Foreign Affairs Committee, by a larger margin. The resolution also came up in 2000, but I'm not sure if it was voted upon.

I'm not sure I understand VDH's beef... is he saying that Congress is not allowed to pass resolutions?

Taft
Taft write: "Orchestrated by Cheney and his lawyer David Addington, the department interpreted executive power in an expansive and extraordinary way, granting President George W. Bush the power to detain, interrogate, torture, wiretap and spy -- without congressional approval or judicial review."

Bob_C comments: You forgot to mention that those powers were for non-citizen combatants. American citizens are not affected in any way. But then you knew that didn't you? Like a good little Neolib, you just conveniently left that out, hoping nobody would notice

grr
this resolution is just at the wrong time, one question about it thou why didnt pelosi do it during the clinton years?

chr3354
If memory serves, I believe an attempt was made to pass it through during the Clinton years, but Willy the Wagger asked that it be withdrawn for some political reason. Congress complied.

Bob C
It doesn't bother you at all that Bush's buddy is undermining America's foreign policy for his own selfish desires? Maybe it's legal, but is is right? And wouldn't you expect Bush to try to exert some pressure on Hunt Oil?

In any event, the whole point I was making was that the right wing noise machine systematically ignores any news that reflects poorly on conservatives and the Republican Party. I challenged anyone to find the equivilant happening on the left. I guess you couldn't find anything so you tried to argue against something I never even brought up.

Oh nevermind, I forgot how useless it is to reason with a moron like you.

Phylo out.

Bob_C
Sept. 6, 2007, Judge Marreo (New York) ruled a warrantless tactic for obtaining e-mail and telephone data from private companies was illegal and said the secrecy provisions are "the legislative equivalent of breaking and entering, with an ominous free pass to the hijacking of constitutional values..."
Also, in 2004, U.S. District Judge Audrey Collins said the ban on providing "expert advice or assistance" is impermissibly vague, in violation of the First and Fifth Amendments in his ruling against the Partriot Act.

How's that for "psychobabble?"

Bob
"American citizens are not affected in any way."

The president currently has the power to take a US citizen and hold him, undeniably. Scary no? If you doubt this I am sure of it and can provide the sources. I think this is what the did with padilla.

Phylo Out
Everytime I see "Phylo Out" I'm encouraged. Then, like a bad penny, he shows up again.

One can only hope.

Phylo
Phlo writes: "It doesn't bother you at all that Bush's buddy is undermining America's foreign policy for his own selfish desires? Maybe it's legal, but is is right? And wouldn't you expect Bush to try to exert some pressure on Hunt Oil?"

Bob_C comments: You still haven't explained how Hunt's dealings "undermine" our foreign policy, any more than you pulling into a Citgo station and filling your with Venezuelan gasoline.

When you buy Chinese goods are you setting American foreign policy? No. You can't do anything to undermine American foreign policy because you're a nobody and a citizen. Even when halfwits like Jane Fonda and Sean Penn pulled their jaunts into countries we were at war with, they are private citizens and do not reflect the policies of the US.

Congress, on the other hand, is part of the American government and when airhead Pilosi visited Syria and fell to her knees in front of Assad, she was working in direct opposition to Bush's policies, thereby undermining his foreign policy. You may not like Bush's policies, but he is still POTUS and has every right under the Constitution to conduct American foreign policy unfettered from fools like Pilosi.

Phylo writes: "Oh nevermind, I forgot how useless it is to reason with a moron like you."

Bob_C comments: "Phylo, how can I be a moron? Remember? I don't exist, since you have stated there is no objective reality - I'm just a figment of your imagination. In fact, according to your metaphysical beliefs, every time you post on TH, you're really just arguing with yourself since TH doesn't exist outside of your tiny little brain. Who's the moron?

Phylo writes "Phylo out."

Bob_C comments: For once I agree with you. You're so far out of it you're actually amusing in a sad sort of way.

Taft
Taft writes: "The president currently has the power to take a US citizen and hold him, undeniably. Scary no? If you doubt this I am sure of it and can provide the sources. I think this is what the did with padilla."

Bob_C comments: Padilla was arrested and charged with conspiracy in a terror plot. There is no provision in the Patriot act which allows the government to seize American citizens and hold them without being charged. I defy you to post the section you claim exists allowing the government to do that.

sweet words
Pjal: ''Phylo out'' -- what sweet words, but like all wayward words of leftists, mere lies. I love when he says the right wing ignores news that reflects poorly on it, seems to me that behavior is the definition of liberalism.

Clinton '08? Hill no!

Wayne
I could be wrong, but if memory serves, both of those decisions were overturned.

Tsk tsk Phylo
There you go again with these gratuitous hypocritical statements:

"In any event, the whole point I was making was that the right wing noise machine systematically ignores any news that reflects poorly on conservatives and the Republican Party. I challenged anyone to find the equivilant happening on the left."

*** What about the non-reporting of the transvestites invading and insulting the Catholic church services in San Franfreako last week? Where was your big fat mouth then if you're such a fair-minded socialist? If that had been a Muslim mosque, there'd have also been no reporting, just some heads rolling!

*** You really are a backwards and left-leaning neo-loon aren't you? THAT'S your side's tactic -opening your big mouths over EVERYTHING, regardless of the fact that YOUR side committed even more egregious gum-flapping over nothing. But that's your side's trick isn't it? You commit hypocrisy and then try to duck it by pointing your dirty little fingers at the conservatives.

*** One case in point is the most recent attack on Rush Limbaugh. ANYBODY with half a brain understood that he was referring to lying Jesse MacBeth (who is a muslim by the way) but nope, the leftwing lunatic lugnuts thought they had a way to cover their shame over their treasonous treatment of Gen. Petraeus by trotting out an imposter and using him to blow a smoke screen at Rush! Nice try, but we've got your number and we're getting more and more unlikely to put up with your cr@p much longer!

Taft
said:

"Also, you should be a little more angry with the R leadership, it seems, than the D. Look at the Hellish Pandora's box they got us into in the first place. Our president yesterday threatened WW III, holy cow!"

*** Just another misinterpretation, misunderstanding, wish-it-had-been-meant-that-way, looking-for-a-reason-to-attack, leftwing lugnut idiot who can't think on his own but has to have an "interpretation" made for him by other lunatic leftwing lugnuts, also with no brains! Go back and LISTEN to his comment with BOTH EARS!

GROW UP you idiots. Just who do you think you're fooling anyway with this contrived obvious stupidity?

Bob
I found this, and if you can prove me wrong, it will make my day, thanks.

This guy is an American Citizen. He has all the same rights you and I have. That means they can do this to you and me.

They can arrest you and hold you indefinitely without charges.

They can torture you.

They can use evidence gained through torture against you.

They can use secret evidence against you.

They can try you without a jury of your peers.

They can execute you, even without trying you.

How did this happen in America? Anyone remember the Military Commissions Act of 2006?

Add that to Operation Falcon and things start getting scary.

Throw in the John Warner Natinoal Defense Authorization Act

OR
I won't engage with troll like behavior, if you grow up I will respond to you.

Gonzales under oath
"Gonzales: There Is No Express Grant of Habeas Corpus In The Constitution", ...

Yes Bob, you are wrong
Bob, wasn't your comment to me, "Be specific now, Wayne, because I don't accept psychobabble as evidence?" And then I responded with specific evidence and you responded with, "I could be wrong, but if memory serves, both of those decisions were overturned." “I could be wrong” and “if memory serves” sound like psychobabble to me.
Be specific now, Bob, because I don't accept psychobabble as evidence.
Bob, as a typical republican, you preach one set of rules and play by another. You're against homosexuals, yet your party is full of them; Mark Foley (who is also fond of little boys), Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, David Dreier, Ed Schrock, George Bush etc… You call marriage sacred yet your current and former leadership is full of divorces; Rush L., Newt G., John McCain, John Kasich, Susan Molinari etc… You impeach Clinton for cheating (and lying about it) yet the Clinton hearings were led by Henry Hyde (who had cheated on his wife for years and lied about it) and Newt Gingrich who was cheating on his wife at the time and lying about it while she was in the hospital. And Sen. Vitter swore he didn’t cheat—till he was caught a second time. Also, didn’t the republicans preach fiscal responsibility then spend more than all other previous administrations combined?
It’s called hypocrisy.

Wayne
Very well said.

The Copperheads are back
And Phylo is the perfect example.


Taft
Speaking of trolls, you're just one of many on here. And as far as your "responding" to my posts, ask me if I give a da--! I don't make a habit of intellectual dueling with the unarmed! My point is pointing out YOUR (neo-loons) HYPOCRISIES!!!!!!!

OR
How do you figure in your mind I'm a troll? Your the one calling names and not giving any added debate but only invective. Please do say something of relevance and stop with the childish name calling: you sound like Ann Coulter and argue about as well.

Taft
"Our president yesterday threatened WW III, holy cow!"

*** I'm pointing out what an absolute loon you are. Typical leftwing lugnut ... interpreting speech that wasn't even stated that way, let alone MEANT that way.

*** Just like you lefties with the Rush Limbaugh debacle. Well, the laugh's on you isn't it? He got 2mil plus for the letter signed by all the leftwing lugnut political pimps WHICH HE WILL MATCH AND DONATE TO THE MARINES LEGAL FUND!

*** You're one of those who likes to think he's lofty and intelligent, but you really are full of bull and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on even if you were capable of any kind of coherent argument.

*** Take a hike and don't bother me with your lame excuses.


a stupid misjudgement
We have a presidential system of three equally powerful and independent branches. It takes the consent of all three branches to take the nation to war much less a needless and wasteful quagmire that can only be won in the long haul (maybe?). The Republican Party lost its advantages in the last elections. Their stupid misjudgement was to assume the electorate would stick with them (right wing neocons) over the long haul. The American electorate is tired of Republican misrule, and will no longer send representatives to Congress to rubber stamp President Bush's war. CZ.

CZ
Gee, how quickly we forget that the DIMWIT PORTION OF CONGRESS ALSO SIGNED ON FOR THE WAR. Quit blaming Bush for everything you can think of that you don't agree with!

And the Demoncraps have lost its "advantages" too since the 2006 election. Their "approval" rating is down to 11% (lower than the President's) AND the Demoncraps have BEEN THE MAJORITY.

I think the American people are finally beginning to wake up to the power hungry political pimps!

What if we've got a bad foreign policy?
Let Speaker Pelosi engage Syria behind the President's back. That way, Syria will be emboldened to do something stupid, and President Hillary will have to lead the country into war. Then what will the Dems say?

Also, I've seen a bloody long history of bad foreign policy in my day. I've seen Carter declare Taiwan a non-country and Zbigniew Brzezinski saluting the end of the fiction of China's government sitting in Taipei by imposing a new fiction of saying that Beijing speaks for the people on Taiwan. I've seen the PLO "recognized" as the sole representative of the Falastin Arabs after the US decided to follow the lead of the Retromingent Third World and Communist majority in the UNGA. I've seen our government casually bandy about the word "fundamentalist" for our Muslim enemies--as if there were a large body of the 'Ulema that wants to revise Islamic theology the way early 20th century Protestant theologians wanted to jettison historic Christianity (the modernists against whom the original fundamentalists reacted); and in so doing lead every Muslim who abstains from pork and tries to pray five times daily to figure that the USA has made all devout people its enemies.

Members of Congress are US citizens, too, and are allowed to protest bad policies.

For the record: I think Bush is doing as good a job as possible under the circumstances. And I am reserving some schadenfreude-laced chuckles for when the next Democratic prez finds that he (Hillary Clinton is really a drag queen)needs to carry on from Bush.

Foreign policy is....
and should be the exclusive perview of the President. GWB needs to start using the Logan act at zero tolerance to get this situation under control. We are in a very dangerous world and all we need is to have someone like Pelosi make a treaty apart from the constitution.
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