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Wednesday, September 06, 2006
Tony Blankley :: Townhall.com Columnist
Appeasement -- It won't work this time
by Tony Blankley
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Last week, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that those who don't take the radical Islamist terrorist threat as seriously as the Bush administration does suffer from a "moral and intellectual confusion." He compared them to the British appeasers of Hitler before WWII.

I did a left-wing radio call-in show after the speech in which the callers accused Rumsfeld of calling them pro-Nazi for opposing President Bush on the war. Of course Rumsfeld was suggesting no such thing. But it is worth reviewing the history and meaning of appeasement -- both for those who hurl the charge and for those who are charged.

The use of the term appeasement to describe a nation's foreign policy first emerged in the 1930s in England to describe the Ramsey McDonald/Stanley Baldwin/Neville Chamberlain British governments' policy of avoiding military conflict with Hitler's Germany by yielding to his territorial demands.

But it is important to note that prior to then, the term was typically used as a positive description of individual action, such as in the phrase "appeasements of Divine displeasures," (Ralph Cudworth, the Cambridge Platonist, 1678.)

Just so, the British governments of the 1930s thought they were acting both ethically and in the best interest of their people. While there were a few pro-Nazis and anti-Semites in Britain (mostly in the upper classes), Chamberlain and most of his government were neither.

They did think Germany had been unfairly dealt with in the Versailles Treaty after WWI. And they did think it reasonable, natural and more or less inevitable that the 80 million German-speaking people of Europe would be re-united under one nation. Thus they appeased Hitler's demand for the Rhineland, anschluss (union) with Austria and the invasion of the Sudetenland (German-speaking part of Czechoslovakia.

And if that were all Hitler had wanted, Chamberlain would have gone down in history as the 20th century's greatest statesman and peacemaker. (And Winston Churchill would have been remembered -- if he was remembered at all by the general public -- as an antique, Edwardian warmonger and troublemaker.)

But appeasement -- in and of itself -- is neither inherently unwise nor immoral. It depends on the facts of each case. While the term had not been used before the 1930s, the policy has been a mainstay of both weak and powerful governments throughout history.

In 1862, during our civil war, in the Trent Affair, after a Union ship violated British maritime rights, the British threatened war if Lincoln didn't capitulate on the matter. His cabinet wanted war, but Lincoln "appeased" the British on the theory of "one war at a time." Bravo Abe the appeaser.

In 1555, Holy Roman Emperor Charles V signed the Religious Peace of Augsburg, whereby he gave in to the newly Protestant princes of his most Catholic empire and permitted them and their subjects to practice Lutheranism. He thereby delayed by 63 years the onset of the Thirty Years War -- which eventually killed 30-40 percent of the entire German population in Europe, plus vast numbers of Spanish, Swedes, Danes, French, Dutch, Italian and others.

That act of "appeasement" certainly delayed, and -- but for some foolish diplomacy and bad luck in the early 1600s-- might well have avoided one of history's great calamities. Good Call, Charles V the Appeaser.

Both Charles V and Abe Lincoln were bold, aggressive statesmen. For them, appeasement wasn't a character trait, it was a specific policy judgment.

Giving in to the demands of others sometimes makes good sense. Throughout the 19th century, the British Empire was constantly appeasing minor potentates around the world in order to keep them off the warpath.

The questions today are: What constitutes appeasement of radical Islamists? And is it likely to make us safer?

Some of Bush's critics are quite straightforward appeasers (if not using that phrase). My friend Pat Buchanan and Michael Scheuer (former head of CIA's bin Laden unit and author of "Imperial Hubris") state that the reason bin Laden is attacking us is because of our foreign policy of supporting Israel and authoritarian Muslim governments such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt. They argue we should reverse those policies and thereby take ourselves out of the terrorist line of fire.

All those critics who say we should change our foreign policies because we are causing the Islamists to attack us are -- whether they use the term or not -- arguing to appease aggressors by changing ourselves in conformity with the aggressor's desires.

The politically correct crowd who say we should change the way we talk, think and behave, change our surveillance of Muslims, even here in America, because it offends Islamist sensibilities -- wish to gain safety by appeasing the violent and offended Islamists.

These arguments are not immoral or cowardly. If we could vouchsafe America from the danger of nuclear, biological and other mass slaughters of millions of our citizens, it would be reckless not to carefully consider such appeasements.

This is an issue of threat assessment. The appeasers don't see the threat as so great. Thus they think we are overreacting and even adding to the problem.

But for President Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Tony Blair, Australian Prime Minister Howard and (considerably lower on the food chain) me and millions of others, we are convinced that no amount of appeasement of the terrorists' desires will make us safer.

As I wrote in my book last year ("The West's Last Chance"), just as Hitler's Nazis, the radical Islamists are irreconcilable and unlimited in their goals. And, they are expanding their reach into the broad grass roots of Islam throughout the world (including in Europe and the United States).

A maximum effort to extirpate the malignancy is the only and best defense for our way of life.

I'm not against the appeasers because they are immoral or cowardly. I merely disagree with them because I believe that, like Neville Chamberlain, they underestimate the threat, and are thus dangerously wrong.

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About The Author
Tony Blankley served as press secretary to then Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Newt Gingrich. Tony Blankley is the author of The West's Last Chance: Will We Win the Clash of Civilizations? .
 
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Die/convert - or beat them back to SAge
When they (if ever) wake up to the danger, it will probably be too late.

Appeasement only works with those you respect and they have no respect for us. We SHOULD have NONE for them.

Read...
... my essay "City of Glass" on my blog if you haven't. I deal directly with this topic. If anything, I think Blankley underatates the threat.

Tana: historical comparisons...
... are inevitable, particularly if they fit. Don't forget Santayana's "doomed to repeat" it warning.

However, I think you're right on the fate of Iraq. I think it was you who proposed partitioning, which I happen to think is a great idea.

Aren't We Appeasing Islamic "Moderates"?
Before 9-11, a common rant of so-called Islamic moderates with their clever West-speak was to blame the West for supporting authoritarian governments. So Bush attempts to bring a watered down (with Sharia references, of all things) constitutional representative government to Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, etc. and what happens?

Corruption is endemic. The people elect terrorists. Violence is a way of life. Resentment of the West is rampant.

Those are hardly ingredients for Western-style societies that ensure liberty and create an environment for common prosperity.

Maybe Islam is not a religion of peace. Maybe Islamic "civilization" is not worthy of freedom. Maybe it's time we take off the gloves.

Let's take their oil, liberate their women, and deport those Muslims who advocate violence against America.

appeasement
Brian,
You and Blankley are both on the same page but I am worried that there aren't enough of you.
I am also worried about who will get elected in 2008. I don't see a strong one running at the moment. Where is a Reaganite when we need him?
Appeasement is bad enough but what may kill us is lack of interest and/or belief. This war is going to last longer than Americans have the power to concentrate, especially if we have no strong leader to keep us on the track.

Appeasement
The author is absolutely right. What the radical slamists aim to do is to create a worldwide caliphate. This they will do, piece by piece. They will take a piece of land here, another there, then they will "throw Israel into the ocean", and so forth. They are not reacting. They are acting a clear plan of world conquest by Islam. If we give in to them, this will only reinforce their desire to move on in their avowed plan to bring the world under the sword of Allah, and Mohamed his prophet.

Tea with Terrorists
I strongly recommend reading Tea with Terrorists - and you can do it for FREE (libs- so you can not sully yourself by allowing your money to be spent on capitalistic propaganda) at http://www.teawithterrorists.com.

This book provides excruciatingly documented information about Islam, why it is NOT a "religion of peace" (more like the religion of Satan), who 'ole Mo was, and thoroughly demolishes all of the MSM garbage we've been fed about how terrorists are a "small" percentage of that peaceful religion.

It is a MUST READ for anyone who thinks we can let our government leaders "talk" our way to peace with these people.

Laura Root

Appeasement -- It Won't Work This Time
Well written Mr. Blankley. Your article both illuminates and educates.

Appeasement -- It Won't Work This Time
I now refuse to use such terms as Islamofacists, Islamic terrorists, etc., our struggle is with Islam. If we try to appease Islam the war will ultimately come to us. In the eyes of Islam we are at war with Allah and it is their responsibility to save us.

teawithterrorists
Laura Root when I go to - http://www.teawithterrorists.com I get the following: This IP address cannot be used for browsing. Is there a work-around for this?

Why stop now?
tanabear writes: Please, no more WWII comparisons.


If only the left would quit with the Vietnam comparisons. As an aside I wonder why the left is perpetually reminding the country of their great military misadventure?

TANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNABARE
TANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNABARE is so naive that
he, or she, or she-he needs to come down here and man one of the bags and flashlights at one of my snipehunts. there's always room for
another moonbat . tallyho !

I agree
I agree with Blankley for a change. I think he and the rest of the righties are wildly overestimating the threat from Islam. Our military is at least one hundred times more powerful than anything the Muslim world could possibly cobble together. They are not an extential threat to any western nation. If "they" take over territory in Spain I might be willing to reconsider my position, but I don't think "they" have a prayer of occupying evn one square inch of Western land.

I'm not for appeasement however. I'm for working with the vast majority of moderate Muslims to contain, capture, or kill the extremists. And it's not because I don't have the courage to fight. It's because I think it's our best hope for keeping us safe. The moderates would be infinitely more effective at infiltrating and rooting out the extremists then we could ever be. And despite what you people think, I believe the vast majority of Muslims are opposed to the jihadists.

I also think that we do, indeed, need to rethink our foriegn policy. I think our policies are driving the extremists and actually creating sympathy for their cause from the ranks of the moderates. If we continue our policies we might end up succeeding in driving all of the Muslims into the camp of the extremists. THEN we would have a real war on our hands.

But there are special interests (oil and energy industry, the Israel Lobby) in this country who are the principle drivers of our foriegn policy, and unfortunately, they don't care about the well-being of this country as much as they do their own narrow interests. If things keep going the way they are, the right wing in this country just might get their chance to kill all the Muslims after all.

Phylo out

As for appeasers
The thing with Neville Chamberlain is that he eventually saw the light, was willing to admit past mistakes, and support the effort to stop Hitler. Somehow I don't see the appeasers in America being willing or able to do this. They seem to have invested too much of themselves in hoping that the jihadists will leave us alone if we're nice to them. See my blog post "Land of Make Believe" for a more complete look at this topic.

to flatbush - tea with terrorists
I just opened the site 'teawithterrorists' by opening a new window and typing in the address. Hopefully, should work for you.

Re: I agree
Phylo Se Fizer writes,
"If we continue our policies we might end up succeeding in driving all of the Muslims into the camp of the extremists. THEN we would have a real war on our hands."

In all seriousness, please show me the moderate Muslims. I'm sure they are out there; I'm just not sure they are a majority or that they have a say in this fight.

If they don't have a say, isn't it in our best interest to ensure they do? Isn't that one of our goals in Iraq? Our success or failure in Iraq will go a long way in demonstrating if Muslim moderates exist and whether they want a voice.

Phylo Se Fizer
I get it now. If we 'righties' just give these psycho-paranoia-headbutchering-islamo-fascists change our foreign policiy and give Israel to them, everything will be fine and dandy. Please, put down that kool-aid you're drinking. Israel is just the appetizer. Europe is the first course and the US is the main course.
And please spell 'foreign' correctly next time. Futhermore, moderate muslims don't exist. Have you seen any demostrations by 'moderate' muslims condemming any terrorists attacks these last 30 and more years? Didn't think so.

catattack &flatbush
If you're right, that there are no moderate Muslims, then you have to admit that it was pretty stupid to think that Iraq could ever be turned into a country that is not a threat and is an ally in the war on terror. Right?

Phylo out

Phylo - at long last, a good point
I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day. But to use your own logic, if terrorists are no threat and our superior military force can overwhelm them, then you have to admit that there is no possibility of us losing in Iraq. Right?

Repubs False Accusations on Appeasement
Which Democrats Believe Terrorists Can be Appeased?

By James Joyner

"On yesterday’s FOX News Sunday, host Chris Wallace asked a question of Senator Elizabeth Dole that I asked no one in particular earlier in the week: “Senator Dole, which Democrats, and I’d like you to name them, which Democrats running for the Senate this year believe the terrorists can be appeased?” Her answer was long but DID NOT NAME ANY DEMOCRATS, running for the Senate or otherwise, who believe the terrorists can be appeased."


Senator Doles response is rather odd with Republicans frantically trying to rally support on the failed war in Iraq with midterm elections coming.

The twin mantras of"cut and run" and "appeasement of terrorist" are constantly repeated before any microphone by nearly every
Republican while trying to paint Democrats, liberals and the anti Iraq War movement as
"traitorous anti-american cowards aid and abett
so-called islamofacist terrorist intent on destroying America thru jihad".

The conceit of the far right, repubs/cons being that THEY AND ONLY THEY know how to fight a war on terror and protect the U.S. They are also under the warped delusion that Democrats would NOT use Military force to defeat its enemies.

REPUBS GET REAL!! The american public isnt buying your nonsense.
hey are

emmmjay: absolutely right
You are absolutely correct in your assessment, IMO.

Now is when we need a very strong leader, and I don't see one anywhere on the horizon. I don't even hear those cavalry bugles in the distance.

Phylo: There's merit...
... to a couple of the points you raised.

We do have the most powerful military on the planet. And the jihadis couldn't possibly stand up to us and win -- if they did so as an organized military force. That's the point where I think you're missing the bigger picture.

They aren't playing to their weakness, they're playing to ours, and we have to adapt to that circumstance (which I think we're doing in some areas). By that, I mean that they use essentially the same guerilla tactics the Minutemen and American Revolutionaries used against the Brits, who were at the time also the most powerful nation on Earth.

Further, they use infiltration; entering into society and working from within to undermine us through sedition as well as outright actions. In Europe, they've immigrated and bred until they've become potent socio-political entities. I'm not saying this has all been some grand hidden plan that no one got wise to. That would be idiotic conspiracy theory. However, the policies in Europe (and extant in this country) allowed the situation to simply develop over time, and now it's difficult to deal with. Their mosques and schools teach virulent jihadi doctrine with no response by the host countries. That's a prescription for suicide.

The strongest and greatest military force in the world is meaningless if there's no point at which to focus it. It's like trying to pick up liquid mercury with your fingers.

response to John Galt
John Galt said: to use your own logic, if terrorists are no threat and our superior military force can overwhelm them, then you have to admit that there is no possibility of us losing in Iraq. Right?

Phylo: No John. It's one thing to defend ourselves from being wiped out. It's an entirely different thing to invade a country and force them to like us.

See the difference?

Phylo out.

response to Brian R
The Islamic world is decades, if not centuries away from developing into a real threat. Why not give peace a chance until then? Why the rush to "kill'm all" now?

Oh wait, I forgot you people on the right have contempt for words like "peace", "love" and "understanding". Nevermind.

Phylo out.

Well, Phylo, my mistake
You see, the mistake I made was in treating your post as a serious comment, and responding to it on that level.

Please be assured I've learned from my error, and won't make that mistake again.

As to your comment: "The Islamic world is decades, if not centuries away from developing into a real threat" Would you like to try to sell that stupid idrea to the families of the 9/11 victims.

Phylo, you truly are out... of your mind.

Hmmmm?
Iraq was an ongoing war and going in there is different than going into Iran where, until they actually commit a serious, document, aggreed by the UN, action that is a threat to us, diplomacy and the UN will be what we probably use.

It is not us that don't want peace but the radicals trying to break up Iraq's new government, and destroy Israel and bomb the 20 or so nations they have been bombing.

Negotiation, not appeasement must be used. That doesn't mean "negotiate" our saftey but even "unfulfilled negotiation" is better than apeasement since that is "victory" for them and gives them more recruits and funding.

Same with Korea. While they have probably some "violations" of the "agreement" to divide the country, until they actually do what Saddam was doing by regularly firing on our military, attempting to assassinate a President, and harboring terrorists or funding suicide bomber openly, we can't "nuke" them either. But, we can negotiate even if it proves fruitless. Just don't appease.

Regarding the support of Saudi Arabia. That agreement was signed long ago. They sell oil in dollars and we provide support. Unless Congress acts to repeal that agreement, what can you do but abide by it. Either our word in writing is good, or nations won't enter into agreements with us when we "negotiate."

We have Congressionally approved agreements all over the world we are to honor. You don't have to like them, I don't for most, anymore and think they are outdated, but Congress hasn't acted and until they do we should abide by them. What agreements do we have with the new government of Iraq? What obiligations did we approve? Did we approve any?

Also, remember that as Commander in Chief, Bush has basically absolute authority unless impeached or the Supreme Court finally rules one way or the other on his powers as Commander in Chief which are different than President when the military is "called into the actual Service of the United States;" (Article II)

Iraq was keeping Clinton's promise when he bombed them and cease fire violations. Iran is entirely different and we have to play it through the UN and other means first and until probably, they make an agressive act. Even if they parade nuclear missles down the street, it will probably be a UN problem.

The ringer is Israel. We have agreed to protect them and other nations may too, but I don't know of any. If Iran were to attack or make obvious preparations to attack Israel, Congress might authorize a premptive strike. I don't see it happening but, anything is possible. Israel itself, may strike and we support that strike. There are too many "irons in the fire" to know what will happen.

Is it really about appeasement?
Not every one in this country is a patriot. Some Americans believe we're to blame for all the wrongs of the world. Even the terrorists blames their killings on foreign policy. Why would anyone try to appease someone who has attacked this country and kill thousands of Americans. Why would anyone attack the war in Iraq, President Bush on national security, and our troops? We aren't separated by different colored clothing which can identify us as appeasers. How then can appeasing benefit those who sympathize with those who wish to kill us. Appeasement is a tricky word when it is used to prevent us from protecting ourselves from the likes of terrorist. Who uses appeasements. American's who love this country. We're strong, we don't have to appease anyone. They should be appeasing us. If a nation is weak appeasements acts like a form of extortion. Our nation is not weak, so why should any appeasements be offered. Being that our nation is strong appeasements would only act as a form of underminding the war in Iraq and showing the terrorist you have freiends in America who are willing to carry on the fight for you in the form of appeasements.

Phylo
I was pleased with your first posting here, found it to be a very civil display of your views. I am hoping to be able to disagree with you on a couple of points you made in it.

You feel the vast majority of muslims to be moderate and open to reason, albeit with some change in our own policies. Fair enough, in every reconciliation there must be some ground given by each party. Where we differ is that I feel the moderates of islam make up the vast minority, giving us (the West) a very small pool to work with.

You evidently honestly believe that there are special interest groups that dictate the foriegn policy of the US and to a degree you are correct, but they by no means have a free hand. Yes oil, or more appropriately energy concerns do play a major role in foriegn policy, we as a nation would be foolish were it otherwise. Alternatre energy sources should be sought out, and are. Make no mistake Exxon/Mobile, BP, Shell and all the rest are eager to capitalize on the next energy source, but until that time Americas economy (as everyone elses) is tied to energy resources in the middle east. That cannot be ignored.

As to our support of Isreal. What other country in that region has as open a society, is as tolerant and reflects the values of Western civilization? Would you just throw them to the lions so to speak? Possibly that wasn't figurative at all. Your views on how legitimate the actions were that formed the state of Isreal must now take a back seat, what is done is done, we move from here. Isreal as a country is a reality and the work would be to get your moderate muslims to accept that. To reject Isreal as a form of appeasement to the muslims would be a great injustice to Isreal and a moral stain on the US.

Regards.

Tea with Terrorists
I've started reading this. Although it's not exactly Tom Clancy, it's decent (at least through Chapter One) and scary. I'll take this one a piece at a time. I do recommend everyone posting here read it, whether you agree with the premises or not. The authors have first hand experience with the enemy and have simply built their novel around their actual experiences.

Read it and think about it.

You know what gets me???
Listening to Bush's speech yesterday, I would normally be thinking, 'gosh! Good speech!' But when he goes on about how 'we are going to do everything to protect this country' and blahblahblah and he REFUSES to secure our borders...it really disgusts me. I voted twice for this guy (who else was there anyway)..but I am extremely disgusted...it's the best word...with him over the illegal INVASION. His obvious disregard for what damage it's doing to our country makes me not respect any of his comments.

Give peace a chance?
Phylo Se Fizer writes: Wednesday, September, 06, 2006 12:25 PM
"The Islamic world is decades, if not centuries away from developing into a real threat. Why not give peace a chance until then? Why the rush to "kill'm all" now?"

Every action on our part has been a reaction to Islam's attacks. If this statement is not true please give me the facts. And don't give me your opinion that our attack on Iraq was unprovoked. You can argue all day that it was a mistake, but it was not unprovoked.

Ahmadinejad has already made it perfectly clear that a few million dead Muslims downwind of a successful nuclear strike on Israel is a price worth paying.

I'd love to give peace a chance, but the other side has to want peace, too. The price for peace with Islam is submission. I am not now, nor will I ever be, ready to get on my knees and swear allegiance to Allah.

Appeasement Is the Easy Route
We have many in this country and around the world that had rather "appease" than do the difficult and time consuming act of fighting a war. We, the United States, have got to get over the idea that we have to make everyone like us. The islamic terrorist will not stop trying to disrupt and kill us in our free societies throughtout the world. We have tried the appeasement route for over twenty years prior to 9/11. Guess what: It didn't work!!!! The islamic terrorist love our political in-fighting. It gives them more credence and enables them to win a battle at a time. I wish Americans were as determine to fight terrorist as they are determined to fight us. That's only wishful thinking though.

We're winning
Why shift strategy now?

-There hasn't been a terrorist attack on U.S. soil since you-know-when.

-Despite tough talk from Iran and Al-Qaeda Israel is still standing as strong as ever. So are we, for that matter.

-The Taliban is gone, Saddam is gone, and whoever wins Iraq's civil war once we leave is their problem.


1938 versus 2006
There is one major difference between the appeasers in 1938 and 2006.

The national socialists (Nazi's) constantly reassured their future victims that they would never be attacked. Hitler only wanted to reclaim limited territory with historic ties to Germany.

The jihadis constantly reassure their future victims of their coming annihilation. Unlike the Nazi's, the new fascists make no secret of their intention to wipe other nations "off the map". Leaders of this movement have publicly stated that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill Americans at all times and at all places.

Those who advocate "dialogue" and "negotiation" with such people are not merely appeasers, but delusional appeasers at that. Sadly, many Democrats share this delusion.


Muslim attacks
quote:
Moslems have attacked the parliament in India, Christians, Hindus in India, Hindus in Kashmir. Europeans in France, Spain, Italy, England, Norway, Germany, etc., Russians, Ukrainians, Uzbekistan - and all the other "stans." Moslems have attacked the United States.

Moslems have blown up Buddhist shrines, attacked in northern China, non-Moslems in Thailand, non-Moslems in the Philippines, non-Moslems in Indonesia. Moslems have attacked in Sri Lanka and are slaughtering Christians in Africa. What's going on in Africa is a religious war.

Fundamentalist Moslems have attacked other Moslems in: Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey as well as throughout Africa.
=====================================

According to the socialists, as long as they only kill a few hundred or thousand or so in each country they aren't a threat. As long as they only attack Americans visiting other countries, it is ok and even if they only kill 3,000 here, that is Ok because they aren'nt "one group" with one leader.

We should use "police powers" not "war" nor should we think they are a threat. Ok, I want all the Socialist leadership in both parties to get on a plane and fly to each of the places suicide bombers have killed Americans visiting tourist areas, and party down for a day or two with announcements in the papers that they are socialist and want appeasement. See if they can do that without feeling threatened.

Why should an American tourist or businessman have to fear every plane trip, every business trip or visit to a tourist site, every train trip, bus ride, even in England or Spain, because the terrorists aren't a threat to "America." Aren't they still Americans when they are on foreign soil on business or tourism trips?

To say they aren't a threat to America is rediculous. We depend on a world market and our ability to safely do business as Americans for American consumers in nations all over the world. While we can't invade every nation that we don't like, we certainly don't have to "appease" them either. We are doing the right thing with Iran, and we did the right thing with Iraq even if you don't like our attempt to now be an ally to the new government. Saddam had to go. To not do so would have gone back on Clinton's promise to use more force if he didn't stop violating the cease fire agreement.

Repubs: WHO are the Appeasers?
Which Democrats Believe Terrorists Can be Appeased?

By James Joyner

"On yesterday’s FOX News Sunday, host Chris Wallace asked a question of Senator Elizabeth Dole that I asked no one in particular earlier in the week: “Senator Dole, which Democrats, and I’d like you to name them, which Democrats running for the Senate this year believe the terrorists can be appeased?” Her answer was long but DID NOT NAME ANY DEMOCRATS, running for the Senate or otherwise, who believe the terrorists can be appeased."


Senator Doles response is rather odd with Republicans frantically trying to rally support on the failed war in Iraq with midterm elections coming.

The twin mantras of"cut and run" and "appeasement of terrorist" are constantly repeated before any microphone by nearly every
Republican while trying to paint Democrats, liberals and the anti Iraq War movement as
"traitorous anti-american cowards aid and abett
so-called islamofacist terrorist intent on destroying America thru jihad".

The conceit of the far right, repubs/cons being that THEY AND ONLY THEY know how to fight a war on terror and protect the U.S. They are also under the warped delusion that Democrats would NOT use Military force to defeat its enemies.

REPUBS GET REAL!! The american public isnt buying your nonsense.

Appeasement
The definition of appeasement, as written by the Encarta Dictionary:

"the political strategy of PACIFYING a potentially hostile nation in the hope of avoiding war, often by granting concessions."

Where does anyone get the idea that Islamofacists are going to be PACIFIED by anything short of the destruction of Western civilization?

The point made by Blankley relative to the prior successful applications of "appeasement" is that it actually WORKED. Countries were pacified by concesssions, and war was avoided.

In the case of appeasement and Islam, the word "appeasement" should be substituted with "capitulation", because that's what it really is.

Paulie out.

response to Leroy
Leroy said : You feel the vast majority of muslims to be moderate and open to reason, albeit with some change in our own policies. Fair enough, in every reconciliation there must be some ground given by each party. Where we differ is that I feel the moderates of islam make up the vast minority, giving us (the West) a very small pool to work with.

Phylo: I'm going by what I've heard generally from people like Dennis Prager, a right winger and a hawk, who says that 90% of Muslims are good, kind people. If you have more definitive information, I'd be happy to look at it. Until then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Leroy said: You evidently honestly believe that there are special interest groups that dictate the foriegn policy of the US and to a degree you are correct, but they by no means have a free hand. Yes oil, or more appropriately energy concerns do play a major role in foriegn policy, we as a nation would be foolish were it otherwise. Alternatre energy sources should be sought out, and are. Make no mistake Exxon/Mobile, BP, Shell and all the rest are eager to capitalize on the next energy source, but until that time Americas economy (as everyone elses) is tied to energy resources in the middle east. That cannot be ignored.

Phylo: I don't think it's quite as innocent as you seem to believe. We've been rather ruthless and less than honorable in a lot of our dealings with the Middle East. The CIA sponsered coup in Iran in 1953 on behalf of BP, and the support of Saudi Arabia, the most dictatorial, totalitarian governement in the Middle East, are a few examples. Besides, if we wanted to get serious about being more fuel efficient we could. Heck, we had electric cars like 10 years ago! With current hybrid technology, I don't see any reason why we couldn't be averaging 50MPG by now. But Bush is just paying lip service to the problem. His rhetoric sounds good, but he does nothing. And then that moron Limbaugh is actively encouraging people to buy bigger gas guzzlers!

Leroy said: As to our support of Isreal. What other country in that region has as open a society, is as tolerant and reflects the values of Western civilization? Would you just throw them to the lions so to speak? Possibly that wasn't figurative at all. Your views on how legitimate the actions were that formed the state of Isreal must now take a back seat, what is done is done, we move from here. Israel as a country is a reality and the work would be to get your moderate muslims to accept that. To reject Isreal as a form of appeasement to the muslims would be a great injustice to Isreal and a moral stain on the US.

Phylo: Perhaps it is easy for you to decide who the good guys are, and who the bad guys are in this conflict, but I have a hard time telling which is which. (Boy, am I going to hear it from some on this site.) I used to think I could tell, but the more I learn the less sure I am. I do appreciate Israel's democratic system and it's relative tolerance of the Arabs in their midst. And I am very critical of the totalitarian leadership of many Islamic countries.

That said, the "Palestinians" seem to have some legitimate gripes. Because of this, I don't think we should be taking sides in the conflict. I think we should do whatever we can to contain it, and to be an honest broker between the two sides. The Israel Lobby, however, doesn't want us to be an honest broker. Ironically, their efforts at influencing our foreign policy are probably fueling even more hatred and suspicion in the Arab world. And our acquiessence to the Israel Lobby is probably making us less safe as well.

By the way, I do think that we need to be working to change the culture in the Arab world. But we won't accomplish that with bombs. A more effective method would be to encourage the opening of their societies to alternative worldviews. Helping them translate and distribute new books for example.

I appreciate the tone of your challenges Leroy.

Phylo out.




Phylo writes
That said, the "Palestinians" seem to have some legitimate gripes.
=============================
Like what? The people to some degree but when they elect terrorists to office what gripes are legitimate?

Are you saying that if the people elect the drug cartel members to office here they have legitimate gripes that they are being denied recreational drugs?

Electing people who call for Israel to be wiped off the map are not legitimate. Israel was occupying land given them by the "world" in the agreements that set the bounderies, later changed bounders, and later supported bounderies, etc. What is the legitimate gripe of Palestinians concerning Israel and their right to live on their land within agreed to bounderies. Israel was there long before the Philistines that later became the Palestinians, came to the area. Also, why was Israel required to live up to the agreement but not Palestine?

Default
Dear Left Angle,
I'm old enough to have seen Democrats that would fight... Truman-Korea, JFK/Johnson-Viet Nam, and I've read about Wilson-WWI,FDR-WWII. That party has been hijacked. The new Democratic party is driven by the McGovern ideologists. Those baby boomers have taken over the academy, media and the Democratic party. How do we know? Ask Lieberman.

Kerry was/is sure that he could quell the "hate America" crowd, work with our many European "allies" like France and Germany and put this whole terrorism threat to bed.

We don't have to name a Democrat that thinks that terrorists can be appeased. We just have to name one left that we believe will continue to dilligently surveil and vigorously use U.S. strength to chase and kill terrorists wherever they are without appeasing the political base that will never elect such a Democrat.

If there is a mantra of "cut and run, and "appeasment of terrorists" by the Republican leadership, the Democrat base, aided and abetted by the major networks and newspapers, are off the chart with the "Bush lied, people died," and "Where is Osama?" Both parties play to sound bites. The difference of sound bites is that the GOP is concerned with terrorists while the Dems are fixated on Bush. Thus the Democratic party now, by default, has become a party of appeasers, driven by the notion that we can reason with the terrorists.

If you don't know
Phylo: Perhaps it is easy for you to decide who the good guys are, and who the bad guys are in this conflict, but I have a hard time telling which is which.


For starters the bad guys are the ones that want you dead. If you still have trouble figuring it out they are the ones shouting "DEATH TO AMERICA".

Appeasement
I commend Mr. Tony Blankley for his well written and incisive article. It is refreshing to see that there are still people out there that can differenciate the historic facts, from obfuscation, and name calling.

Congratulations. Well done.

problog..youre dead wrong..
just as i thought, you couldnt name a single democrat in Congress that thinks terrorist can be appeased, most likely because there are none.

This continued canard that "the democratic party has been hijacked anti-war pacifist leftist" is pure nonsense. these people are against the war because mostly they think it is a waste of time,
U.S. military lives, money and is doing absolutely nothing to make the U.S. safer from terrorist attack. Nor do they think Iraq/Hussien had any connection to the events of 9-11-01 as President Bush and V.P. Cheney continually imply.
They believe that Iraq is a diversion on the
War On Terror, which it is.

Repubs keep pointing to Lieberman as proof which is more nonsense. Conneticut is a small very liberal state. What happened there has little or no bearing on the National Democratic Party. Lieberman was put on the defensive because of his "being Bush's favorite democrat" and inattention to constituent problems.

If you truly think that democrats wont use military force to defeat it's enemies then you are delusional and listening to and brainwashed by RNC rhetoric and talking points.

Democrats arent appeasers, and you cant name a single one that buys into that nonsense.
That is just rnc talking points and a slur on the
patriotism of anyone who dares disagree with President Bush on Iraq.

I guess the over 60%of americans who disagree with and disapprove of how bush is handling Iraq are appeasers?

I think not.

Phylo
My estimation of the moderates of islam being a minority is based solely on observation. I have witnessed little to show otherwise and am not sure how Mr. Prager or others derive their precentages. I am not a scholar of middle east cultures by any stretch, but I did spend a bit of time in the region working in The Yemen and, to a lesser extent in the U.A.E. Given a choice between the two I would recommend the Emirates.

As a side to your "Palestinian" misgivings, the Palestinians were, and still are, a people of the region much in the same manner the Apache is not "from" New Mexico,they are indigenous to an area rather than the boundries on a map. They are also viewed as a lower class if you will by their Arab/muselim contemporaries. I remember having a rather candid conversation with a supervisor one evening in the compound and asked him about the Palestinians, I forget my exact question, something to the effect of why the other Arab states didn't do more to actually help out the Palestinians. He smiled and told me that the Palestinians were the tip of their (Arab) spear that they could use to stab at Isreal with and not get blood on their own hands.

Isreal has her faults, yes as does America but we are both light years in advance of these people. It is commendable to be cautious who you ally yourself with but if you demand perfection before deciding to take sides you will find yourself balancing on a very unstable fence alone.

Phylo,again
Another point I meant to make. You brought up trying to affect change in the Arab culture by encouraging them to open their societies, enlighten them if you will. It is precisely this opening of their society by the west that is so noxious to them. Virtually everything you would look to in our (Western) culture as an example of advancing their culture is seen by them as a blaspheme and the mere mention that they should embrace these values would be met with hostility.

Abortion, try opening an abortion clinic, or as the say "Family Planning Center", in one of these countries.

Gay rights? You bet, get a parade permit in Saudi for a San Fransico style parade I am positive they would love the GLBT type tourism.

How about a womens crisis center, God knows they could use one, but my money says you never open the doors.

How about just womens suffrage at all, saw it in Iraq, maybe you can find it sprinkled around, but it isn't rampant.

Or what about just a change in attitude on women in general? Do you know why the burkah? It has nothing to do with protecting the virtue of the woman, it is to keep you from lusting over the property of another man. That would offend his honor, this is why the daughter is stoned for being raped, that doesn't defend the virtue of the girl it restores the fathers honor.

We could try a little of that seperation of church and state idea on them but you may have noticed one does define the other over there.

Failing the seperation issue we may instead work on the freedom to worship as you please. Yes I know you will let me know that in some Arab/muselim countries, some other religions are tolerated. But that is the word "tolerated" and generally prefaced by the word "just" or "barely".

You should understand that the idea of just living in peace is not enough, they believe you can never be truely "at peace" until peace has been made to allah via muhamed.

It is not enough to live in peace, it must be peace by their understanding and if you are wanting to see a societal change made for that peace you are the one who would have to change. And to my mind that is worse than appeasement, that is surrender.

ApolloSpeaks
speaks the truth. It is too easy to overlook the fact that Americans do not have the choice of appeasing the Muslim savages who want us all dead. Muslims kill each other with the same enthusiasm as they kill infidels. The fact that they are killing others who worship Muhhamed makes no difference to them.


In Iraq there are reports of thirty, forty, fifty or more Muslims slaughtered almost daily. Anyone who thinks that we can negotiate with these monsters is foolish. The problem is that their foolishness encourages the jihadists to continue killing.


The only way to stop them is to kill them. It is the only thing that they understand. I have said before that those who say that the jihadists are not afraid to die, in fact seek death, fail to understand one thing.


If enough of them are killed they will call for time out. The Ayatollah Khomeini threw in the towel after Sadaam Hussein had killed hundreds of thousands of Iranians. Khomeini said that he could not pursue the war any longer.


Neither one of these creeps cared about killing people, or seeing their people being killed. It just turned out that Sadaam, for various reasons, American assistance being one, didn't blink. The Ayatollah did. There is a lesson to be learned from the Ayatollah's surrender.


As fanatical and hateful as he is, he had to call for peace. If we kill enough of these monsters, and show no signs of losing the will to kill them, we will win. That means we get to live. It means that there will be a completely new world reality.


Sure, the Muslim survivors will crawl back under their rocks and they will continue to hate us. So what? They already hate us. With a few million less jihadists the world will be a much better place.


Of course the lefties will scream to high heaven, because America will be an even bigger super power. That is not a bad thing.

Much too kind
Tony good sir I must say that you are very diplomatic. Considering that the appeasers, whether they know it or not, will get us killed. Personally, when some ones actions have even the slightest chance of getting me killed I take action and that action is aggressive. Our action against these traitors should be severe and swift. Ignorance is not bliss.

Examples
Sorry Mr. Left Angle, how about this from Pelosi: "Today's Supreme Court decision reaffirms the American ideal that all are entitled to the basic guarantees of our justice system. This is a triumph for the rule of law.
"The rights of due process are among our most cherished liberties, and today's decision is a rebuke of the Bush Administration's detainee policies and a reminder of our responsibility to protect both the American people and our Constitutional rights. We cannot allow the values on which our country was founded to become a casualty in the war on terrorism."

Since when does lumping terrorists into the protected category of American citizens and giving them constitutional rights not appease them? The organization CAIR, a pro muslim group in the U.S. had this to say, "Today's Supreme Court decision is a victory for the rule of law that will help to improve our nation's deteriorating image worldwide," said Corey Saylor, government affairs director for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

Certainly, they sound appeased.
You may hail the decision as a victory of the rule of law, but for the lawless terrorists, they have no claim to the protections afforded by the U.S. constitution or Geneva conventions. You may assert that Pelosi's joy at the ruling has nothing to do with appeasement, however, she is either wrong-headed about terrorists and their "rights" under U.S. law, or she does not perceive the real threat that terrorists pose. I shudder at the former, because the constitution protects U.S. citizens. I suspect the latter. The appeasement party wants to extend rights purchased by American blood to those who have attacked and killed us under Clinton, who did little (default appeasement), and Bush who took action.

Your insistence on just one example of a Democratic appeaser may be based on the faulty assumption that an example must be provided that quotes a Democrat saying "we just must appease the terrorists." If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it must be a duck. The default Democratic position is that our actions in Iraq are making muslims angry and so we should turn to diplomacy. Under Clinton, we were repeatedly attacked and the attackers received little reprisal. The playground bully that is never challenged is being appeased by inaction.

Lastly, I voted for Kennedy, Johnson, McGovern and Carter. After being in the Navy in the Viet Nam war, I later opposed it. After the Democratic party continued their hard left turn, I found myself unable to go that way. I read "Useful Idiots" by Mona Charen and my Viet Nam War misperception was cleared up forever. Being in the Academy, I can assure you that it's basically a Democratic Party institution. Growing up Democrat, I noticed that the South belonged to Democrats. Carter was elected because of the South. The pacifistic Democratic Party has alienated the entire region. If using some cruise missles is military force, then Democratic denial is complete.


Really, Phylo . . .
you can't be as leftist as your post seem to be.

The Palestinians and the PLA had gotten the Gaza Strip free and clear and still committed acts of terrorism. It's not about a Palestinian homeland, it's about killing all the Jews. That's the stated goal of the terrorists and their sugar-daddy, Iran.

And really, Phylo, does it matter who we supported in 1953? That was during the Cold War and international politics were different then.
By your standards, we should still be enemies with the Brits because we fought two wars against them.

I don't think Dennis Prager knows how many Muslims support terrorism, although it appears the moderates tacitly agree with the Islamofascist strategy. They certainly don't denounce it. I agree with you that we should cultivate their help, though.

Phylo, appeasement is impossible
Most Muslims believe in their heart of hearts that no infidel should be allowed. Clearly, this it the belief of the terrorists. Which makes appeasement to the degree necessary to stop the current hostilities impossible. Why?

Well, I for one am not going to convert to Islam. As a Christian, it is my heartfelt belief that I CANNOT do so. My faith is not interchangeable. I am not alone in this belief. There are A LOT of Christians who hold God in that high esteem that we would die rather than convert.

Thus, we won't appease the Muslims because what they want is our conversion and we aren't going to give them that. So, Phylo, which will it be? Will you kill me in order to get them to stop attacking the United States? Because as long as even one Christian lives who will not at least pretend to convert, they won't stop trying to kill us.

That's reality, Phylo, and if you knew any Muslims, you'd know that. Even the ones who are my friends admit that ultimately the infidel must convert or be killed. It's Allah's law and a good Muslim does what Allah wills.

appeasement
Appeasing radical islamists is like appeasing cancer.... ignoring a problem will not make it go away!!!! They are no more moral than the KKK and their goals are just ignorant bigotry and have nothing to do with any policy other than making them self the supreme being..... shame on them for trying to hide behind God!

Moderate Muslims
The War on Terrorism is necessary. Appeasement will not work. Arguments against appeasement are clearly and forcefully argued in many of the foregoing postings.

Negotiations with the Moderate Muslims would be great, but where are they?

Moderate Muslims represent the majority of the Muslim Community throughout the world. The Moderate Muslim preferrs safety and a better life for their children. The Moderate Muslim has been hijacked by the radical leaders and passionate missled male youth in their midst. Without an Internationally recognized central governance of the Muslim religion groups of Muslims, usually young males, are hijacked by charismatic Imams with lust for world domination. The Moderate Muslim dare not speak out for fear of reprisal, probably reprisal more severe than that unleashed against Westerners. Suppression of female leadership in governance, a propensity for the conspiracy theory, and radical propaganda aggravates this situation. Moderate Muslim wives and mothers instruct husbands and sons to "remain silent" regarding their political opinions for fear of reprisal. There is no open dialogue or debate in the Muslim Community.

This is not freedom!!

To win the War on Terror the United States must prevail until the Terrorist are diminished and Moderate Muslims can begin to control the political environment. I see progress but it will take a long time.

The war in Iraq may not be a perfect situation, but it is necessary. I find it strange that many obvious strategic advantages of the US presence in Iraq, Qatar and Afghanistan are not more fully discussed in the MSM.

IVES

Re: problog..youre dead wrong..
Left_angle writes:
"just as i thought, you couldnt name a single democrat in Congress that thinks terrorist can be appeased, most likely because there are none.
This continued canard that "the democratic party has been hijacked anti-war pacifist leftist" is pure nonsense. these people are against the war because mostly they think it is a waste of time,
U.S. military lives, money and is doing absolutely nothing to make the U.S. safer from terrorist attack. Nor do they think Iraq/Hussien had any connection to the events of 9-11-01 as President Bush and V.P. Cheney continually imply.
They believe that Iraq is a diversion on the
War On Terror, which it is."

What's the difference of being against appeasement, but believing the WOT is a waste of time? "A rose by any other name still smells as sweet" (or bad in this case). The end result is the same - appeasement or surrender will appear the same in Muslim eyes.

For the sake of argument, let's say the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. Mistakes will always occur during wars, always have, always will, regardless of who's in charge. What do we do now? If we pull out we will be abandoning a stanch ally, the Kurds, and central and southern Iraq will be up-for-grabs. A long, bloody civil war will be carved in stone, years of chaos will evolve into a lawless hot bed for terrorists. And America will be hated and despised more that ever in the Arab world.

If Democrats have a different vision, let's hear it.

arab sentiment
I thought some of you would interested in this piece.


By JOHN ZOGBY
In the five years since the 9/11 attacks, Americans have been told that terrorists and their sympathizers in the Arab and Muslim world are enemies of freedom whose intense hatred of America must be answered with force.
My extensive polling shows something quite different: The vast majority of the Muslim world was fond of us prior to the war in Iraq. But since then, goodwill has eroded precipitously. Through its policy decisions, the American government is turning off people who should be on our side.

Within a few months of the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001, my firm undertook a poll of 5,345 Muslims in five Arab countries (Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait) and three non-Arab countries (Pakistan, Iran and Indonesia).

The results, for the most part, were heartening: 81% held a favorable view of American science and technology; 64% had a favorable impression of American movies and television, and 68% had a favorable view of American-made products.

Adults under 30 years of age - a huge element of each country's total population - were particularly favorable toward the United States, an encouraging sign.

By May 2004, American prestige had plummeted. In a poll conducted in six Arab nations, 61% said they held a favorable view of American technology, and 44% said they had a favorable view of American television and movies - 20-point drops in both categories from the earlier poll. Just 10% of those surveyed said that, overall, they had a favorable opinion of the U.S. Further, 80% said their sentiment was driven by U.S. policy, not by its culture, and 68% said their opinion of the U.S. was less favorable than it was five years earlier.

Our polling in the region in late 2005 produced similar results.

What had changed minds? Three words: war in Iraq. Very few Muslims bought the U.S. need to go to war and most believed the war would lead to less, not more, democracy in Iraq and the region.

I had the privilege of serving on the congressionally-created Advisory Commission on Public Diplomacy with several distinguished colleagues in 2003. The commission did an admirable job - but our mandate did not include any discussion of U.S. policy in the region. And that is an unfortunate blind spot - because it is America's policy that remains the core problem.

To repair the damage, the U.S. should reengage as honest mediators between Israel and the Palestinians - long the most important issue in the Arab world until the Iraq war, and one in which Arabs look to the U.S. for leadership. Here at home, a constituency must be built among Muslims around the world by increasing the numbers of student and worker visas. My polling shows that, by an almost 2-to-1 margin, there are substantially better feelings toward the U.S. and American characteristics among those who have been here, have a relative here or would like to know more about us.

And most of all, America must look honestly, not defensively, at its policies throughout the region.

The U.S. has lost a lot of ground in the past five years - and it will be a long, hard road back. But it is a journey worth taking to ensure better standing in the Muslim world and, ultimately, a safer world.

Zogby, a Lebanese-American, is president and CEO of Zogby International, a New York-based public opinion research firm that polls worldwide.

Still think the war in Iraq has made us safer?

Phylo out

Measured War
Appeasement is not the answer.

Surrender is not the answer.

The US does not control the political evoloution underway in Iraq. The US must maintain a measured presence in Iraq until a political norm can be achieved. This means a measured war of attrition until the radicals wear themselvs out and begin to "negotiate" with established political leaders

How many years and wars did it take to establish the US democracy? To win a war against slavery and then actually implement and enforce the laws required to exit the slavery mentality. It will take time.

Our biggest risk is the impatience of US citizens and the distorted picture of the truth constantly presented by the MSM.

IVES

Iraq 3 states?
I see in the paper this morning that the three groups, Kurds, Sunni and Shiite are working on a plan to create basially autonomous areas for each under a central government similar to our system of states under central government for defense and other limited powers.

However, it also said the Sunni are resisting because they are afraid the oil in the north and south will all end up in Kurdish and Shiite regions.

Also, I think that the Zogby poll is correct for many reasons. The Iraq corruption was good for powers in some of the surrounding nations and the "fear" that we would do to them what we did to Iraq started waves of propaganda from Syria, Iran, and other more radical groups of "power brokers." Fortunately, we did what we had to though since Saddam was obviously not going to stop firing on our planes or funding the suicide bombers and we now know he was continuing with his nuclear plasma enrichment research which we had intelligence he was doing something "nuclear" but may have been off on exactly what. Now we know.

Much of the "hate" is because they are doing things they shouldn't be doing and are now afraid we would come after them. Iran is a good example of the non-stop "hate" toward Israel and the U.S. but, the UN is the lead organization calling for them to stop their nuclear program. And, they are snubbing their nose at the UN too.

Since the state controls the media, and we just saw the moves Ahmadinejad made in Iran to change "education" and put under the control of the religious leaders you can easily understand why we are "hated." There is a major, major propaganda war going on in the middle east just as there is one here by both parties. But, there it is mostly one sided.

Re: arab sentiment
Phylo Se Fizer, since when do we care about whether an enemy likes us. I know I don't care.

"Oderint Dum Metuant: Let them hate, so long as they fear."
- Seneca
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