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Saturday, July 26, 2008
Tom Borelli :: Townhall.com Columnist
General Electric and Al Gore Scheme to Undermine Domestic Oil Drilling
by Tom Borelli
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The silver lining in the cloud of high energy prices is the growing public support for domestic development of natural resources. Opinion polls, including data from California, show Americans are increasingly inclined to support drilling on the Outer Continental Shelf and in Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

In an effort to increase the domestic supply of oil and also to pressure Congressional Democrats not to extend the offshore ban, which expires September 30, on July 14 President Bush eliminated the executive order preventing offshore drilling.

Not surprisingly, Democratic congressional leaders and their special interest allies oppose adding new areas for development. Responding to the president’s initiative, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) charged, “Once again, the oilman in the White House is echoing the demands of Big Oil.” A representative of the Natural Resources Defense Council asserted that “Americans deserve policies that free us from fossil fuels and give us better choices that will bring down our energy costs, make our air cleaner, and help solve global warming."

Al Gore, sensing the political shift towards fossil fuels, generated national headlines last week when he called for all of the nation’s electricity to be produced by renewable energy sources in 10 years. “The idea that we can drill our way out of this is just so absurd,” Gore told the annual meeting of the yearly gathering of left-wing activists, Netroots Nation.

It’s tragic that key corporate giants are on the wrong side of the energy debate. Rather than recognize that our current economy is dependent on fossil fuels, too many CEOs have been seduced by the notion that corporate responsibility is defined by Al Gore’s view of climate science.

“Green” CEOs naively believed that they could navigate the social and political terrain and benefit financially by advocating for federal control of greenhouse gas emissions. Over 20 corporations participated in the United States Climate Action Partnership (USCAP) – a lobbying coalition of industry and environmental special interest groups that sought cap-and-trade legislation to address global warming. The USCAP lobbying effort produced Lieberman-Warner – a cap-and-trade bill that, had it been adopted, would have increased energy prices, reduced economic growth.

But many of the USCAP members were unhappy with details of the legislation, so by the time Lieberman-Warner approached the Senate floor for a vote, business support for climate legislation had waned. Only six USCAP corporate members ultimately supported the bill. USCAP membership had promised its corporate members a “seat at the table,” that is, a role in the development of climate change policy, but when every climate policy on that table raised energy prices and hurt the bottom line, to many CEOs the seat must suddenly have seemed less appealing.

Some CEOs may have learned their lesson and will steer clear of coalitions like USCAP in the future, but not all will.

General Electric is among the latter. GE stubbornly adheres to climate change alarmism because it has placed a huge financial bet on carbon-free energy sources, such as wind, that are threatened by domestic oil production. Climate change fears and tight oil supplies are the driving force for renewable energy. Increasing the supply of oil will reduce its price, making wind power even less competitive, even with generous government subsidies.

GE CEO Jeff Immelt, already in hot water for poor stock performance, can’t afford to lose his gamble on renewable energy.

Faced with this threat, Immelt is shrewdly using his NBC news empire to promote climate change fears and wind turbines as a sound energy alternative.

Al Gore was the featured guest on NBC’s “Meet the Press” on July 20. For almost the entire program, Gore spoke about climate change, bashed oil exploration and touted his idea to generate the country’s electricity needs from carbon-free sources, including wind turbines. Gore did support the use of coal, but only if it was associated with carbon capture and sequestration – another GE technology.

GE’s cable business channel CNBC has also promoted wind energy in its news programming. T. Boone Pickens was given air time on “Squawk Box,” CNBC’s early morning news program, to present his energy plan. A major thrust of the Pickens plan involves a significant increase in the use of natural gas and wind – two areas in which Pickens has major investments. Indeed, Pickens is building the world’s largest wind farm in Texas, and his company recently ordered about $2 billion worth of GE turbines.

While Pickens has said he is for all forms of domestic energy, including oil exploration, the imagery in his TV ad campaign – burning oil fields contrasting with wind turbines on green fields – clearly denigrates oil. During the commercial, Pickens says “I'm T. Boone Pickens. I've been an oil man my whole life, but this is one emergency we can't drill our way out of. And I have a plan.”

The scheming of Immelt and Gore undermine our national interest. For economic and national security reasons Americans desperately need natural resource development in our own backyard.

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About The Author

Thomas J. Borelli, PhD. is the editor of FreeEnterpriser.com and Director of the Free Enterprise Project at the National Center for Public Policy Research.

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WTF
Does wind, solar, geothermal et al have to do with the gas I want to put in my GD car?!!!

Energy for cars and energy for electricity are two separate and distinct issues.

We can easily transition to alternatives for the generation of electricity, we cannot easily transition away from gas for transportation. And, unless you've been duped by the climate change Chicken Littles there is NO reason to.

GE is also one of the few companies doing business with Iran. They are un-American and traitorous. People should only care what they are doing so they can avoid doing business with them.

GE is part of global facism
General Electric needs Al Gore as their spokesperson in order to consolidate their competition from producing new energy (alternative, etc.) by promoting slogans such as "greenhouse gas emissions". If more competition got in General Electric's way they could not be promoters of the state run government in the United States. Congress (HR & Senate) are aware of this and need to keep the system free and clear of competition and need GE as the only engine to produce energy.

The government and corporations use "Sierra Club (Hippies w/ Sandals)" as a front in Envrionmentalism to fool the sheep public and divert attention towards GE and the United States governement consolidating resources.

This is a dog and pony show by our government and corporate leaders. This was the path that Hitler and Mussolini took, except this is on a global scale.

The corporations, Federal Reserve, etc. will not stop until the public is aware that GE and governments purpose is to consolidate assets into the hands of a selfish few, and leave the US citizens dependent on this modern feudal state.

While the dollar collapses over the next several years, you will see corporations (GE, etc.) support global carbon taxes on the "air you breathe", to support a global digital currency. This funding will go to corporations like General Electric to promote bio-diversity, etc. and to promote a global facist corporate run criminal system.

GE is using Al Gore to help and fund the North American Union to fund a regional government (US, Canada, and Mexico)

You Tube Video - blue print for uniform & common global standards - (global carbon taxes, footprints, & breathing) (All documented and out in the open). This is to fund the North American Union and North American Tribunal. All documented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mMGLOwBMVo&feature=related


in the can
Maybe Gore should be on GE's payroll. He and Imelt could both talk about "good old times". But whatever Imelt is selling its not helping stock performance. (the market has him figured - like the public has Goremeister figured)

GE
GE is largely responsible for the veritable cult in many American businesses to offshore IT jobs to India, regardless of impact on morale or actual results. If executives coming into your company have GE on their resume, you might as well update yours. WaMu was one such bloodbath.
To find that they are conspiring with Al Gore and others in the "big wind" industry to destroy our economy in the short term so that they can produce inadequate solutions at too slow a rate that no one can afford because of their damage to the economy - well that's pretty much par for the course, isn't it?

GE/Obama/Bresinsky-Global Carbon Credits
Americans will be issued Carbon Credits on the air they breathe to fund the new "Global Federal Reserve" through digital currency and transactions.

Plans are being implemented by the new Obama administration in 2009 and "Bresinsky". The World tour by Obama is to condition Americans that the "dollar" will collapse and America's superpower status will be dominated not by United States Bankers, but International Monetary Fund Bankers.

This is your "New World Order" that George H. Bush wanted. They have their global puppet "Messiah" in Barack Obama. Their global plans are in place. Yet the Bushites continue to believe in this "invisble war on terror". Globalism will be much worse than the "WAR ON TERROR". You will see first hand with an Obama administration.

Endgame part 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mMGLOwBMVo&feature=related


give me renewables
i want my own windmill for electricity, they are becoming more affordable, a solar water heater and a plug in car. I can't wave good bye to the gas pump and never have to pay an electric bill again. Let the saudi's go broke. I don't want to send them any more of my money nor do I want to give exxon tax subsidies to drill or buy their oil.



And how soon, Mr. Gore,
will one of your windmills be able to power my car? Will someone please escort this man to a faraway place?

Well said Der Krieger...
I'm with you on this one.

Gore and his NON IDEA
July 26 2008

Gore, Pelosi, Reed and the rest of the left wing loons, have no conception regarding oil drilling. They live in the dark ages of the 1800 and their concept is a “WILDCAT OIL RIG” as shown in the motion picture “The Giant”. Today’s wells are clean efficient and have protection built in to prevent any spills.

Gore actually believe the lies in his non documentary. He has no concept about how power is generated, and distributed. He believes that what comes out of the outlet is the same voltage that is generated. He is also under the misguided belief that energy once generated can be stored. He has no conception that the steam turbines driving the generators take time to produce a given current, and that steam is vented through the stacks, and scrubbers remove most all hydrocarbons.

Gore, Pelosi, and Reed, along with most of the Democrats, think it takes up to ten years to get from drilling a well to pumping crude. When in fact it can be done in three months, The Russians have proven this. If wells were started today oil could be flowing within a year, 6000 barrels a day from ONE well. With slant drilling technology a single rig can produce some 21 slant wells, not including the injector wells. The resulting crude would be close to 126,000 barrels a day just from one rig.

Now the Democrats have to get their heads out of the sand, and LISTEN to the American People and stop playing “fotties” with the environmentalists, that feed their pockets with cash.


Want more information go to

http://www.ilm-efx.5u.com/photo4.html

For the Rest Of The Story!

Once again - The Mix
I posted this in the last two columns but it doesn’t seem to have taken hold. Contrary to the litany that T. Boone Ragpicker says in his commercial the oil issue has NOTHING to do with electrical generation. The electricity industry got off of oil a long time ago. At any rate, this is the breakdown:

Coal - 48.6%
Nukes - 19.4%
Natural gas - 21.5%
Hydropower - 5.8%
Fuel oil - 1.6 %
Geothermal, solar, and wind - 2.5% with other miscellaneous sources providing the balance

GE and other like companies jumped on the AGW bandwagon because they thought they could make a buck. GE because they, like T. Boone, are in the wind generation business. Note that Duke power was initially in that list of companies and when they found that they could not get what they wanted from the CAZP and Swindle Bill they dropped out and started opposing it.

Chick-pea
The difference between people like me and people like you is that while we want you to have your wind mill in the back yard and solar panels on the house, you want windmills and solar panels on our houses.

Do you see the difference? Probably not.

Wind & Solar
I just can't wait to see the first 747 glider jet that will go across the Atlantic from the U.S. to the U.K.. Gore, Pelosi, Reid, Pickens, Immelt, they are all liars, they are using scare tactics to get even richer than what they are now. Wake Up people and smell the damn coffee and live in the real life. Oil is in our future for the next 20 years for sure.

Tom from KY, you wrote....
"Oil is in our future for the next 20 years for sure."

Oil will be in our future for a lot longer than 20 years... more like 120 years. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to gradually transition to renewables. Every time someone tries to start a reasonable conversation on renewables, the flame throwers come sarcastically charging in with 747 gliders and cars with windmills on the roof. I'm all for domestic drilling and coal extraction to get us through the transition. But those who think we can power our personal vehicles for the next 100 years the same way we have done it for the past 100 years are delusional.

Anything the government touches...
...turns to crap.The only reason government is involved in research and development of energy sources is because the sources are so unpromising that they cannot attract private investors.Private investors look for results,not theories or "enviromental" ideology.The business of Washington is politics and it's handmaiden political ideology,and it is nothing else.

Windfarms? NOT IN MY BACK YARD! Will we see windfarms off Cape Cod and Marthas Vinyard?HeII no!How about downtowntown Washington?(Don't make me laugh!)The elite will always be elite and they will always live better than us,because they make the policy.They want US to take public transportation,but not themselves.Their job is too important for that.They have private parking spaces for politico's and their employees on Capital Hill.Why?How many taxpayer limo's and GAS are provided to these elite? Do you have any of these perks? Me neither.We just pay for it.They are called "our betters" because they live and work better than we do at our expense.

Revolution anyone?

GE and AlGore undermine Domestic drillin
GE a company that deals with Iran. What credebility! AlGore, do as I say not what I do.
Don't watch as I run my SUV's and Jet airplanes.
Hey, he buys carbon offsets (from his own company), whoopee dee. Plant those trees, they will do something in 20 years. Boy is that a credeble guy. In this debate the democrat house and senate are the publics worst enemies!
The Pickens plan is a joke. By the time his plan comes to fruition, the U.S Economy and all
American people will be destitute. Dumocrats hate this country and the people. This is evident
by what they do to keep us subjugated to their
insane thinking. Keep in mind they brought you B. HusseiNObama. The man with no solutions just "change" what ever that means! I believe it means he can change his mind all the time and anytime depending on his need at the time.

Michigander...
...Will you please post how many stocks you own in corporations involved in all this new technology?You do want to make money,don't you? If you belived what you are saying,I would think you were heavily invested in this "new technology".

Please keep your hands out of this taxpayers pocket.The answers for the present "energy problem" and the transition to new technology will be discovered by some guy tinkering in his garage,not by politicians in Washington!

We do not have an energy problem...
...we have a political and ideological problem,and that problem exists in Washington,D.C.

I'd rather be governed by the oil companys than the U.S. Congress.

the truth is
we should be drilling all we can, building wind turbines ,devoloping solar power , devolping more clean coal technology ,building nuclear powerplants and doing all we can to be as self sufficient as possible,that we can give the finger to little tinpot dictators like hugo chavez and the islamo nazi oil shieks that currently have us under their collective thumb . but it should not be an either or choice it should be all of the above.

Remember
We have been draining the "crackpot dictators oil for all of our lifetimes" and with the advent of new technologies the Saudi/Venezualian/Iranian etc...will be left holding reserves in a market in surplus. In other words with no power to do anything except sell what they can at a price determined by the free market not by a shortage driven market. The free market can and will do this and sooner rather than later. In 1980 no one thought that oil would sell for $10/barrel in six years, but it did, in six years the power of the oil exporting countries to do anything but shut up and sell enough oil to try to pay for their countries immediate needs to keep their populations quiesent will be obvious. For now high oil prices will stimulate the free market to crack the shortage nexus and drive new technologies to switch the balance toward surplus.

the truth is
we should be drilling all we can, building wind turbines ,devoloping solar power , devolping more clean coal technology ,building nuclear powerplants and doing all we can to be as self sufficient as possible,that we can give the finger to little tinpot dictators like hugo chavez and the islamo nazi oil shieks that currently have us under their collective thumb . but it should not be an either or choice it should be all of the above.

When did America change ...
... from a "can-do" to a "can't-do" nation?

We must have, because we are allowing our Congress to dictate what we can't do to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Since when do we let a small, nutty minority in this country dictate that the majority will have $10 gasoline and $300 power bills because they are worry-warts about unproven "global warming".

It is time to clean out a Congress that listens to these nuts (and their money) and get one that listens to the majority of the people. I'm not voting for incumbents, regardless of party, and any rational American will do the same.

Drill - drill - drill!

RUSSIA ROCKS WHILE AMERICA WILTS
.....RUSSIA is busily working toward cornering the world oil markets, making deals with Libia and Iran and laying claim to the 90 billion oil find in the arctic ...we won the Cold War but we are losing the Energy War ...

.....The Green Commie Eco-nuts and their Democrat flunkies in Congress do not want to drill anywhere, not just Anwar ...they will oppose with frivolous law suits, and Congressional chicanery, any form of energy production except solar and windmills ...they have stated openly that their goal is to wean America off the use of fossil fuels ...

.....So while Russia is setting itself up as a World Power broker, America is signing a suicide pact with the Devil ...the Devil being the Green Goon Eco-nuts and the Democrats in Congress .....COLOSSUS

T-BONE PICKPOCKET & GENERAL ELECTRIC


.....T-Bone made his fortune in oil as a wildcatter when it was still possible to do that .....now that he has been squeezed out of the market by the "big boys" ...he has turned on oil and is promoting his wind farm company which will get generous government subsidies (our tax money) ...

.....Isn't is amazing that all these alternate sources have to be subsidized by the government to compete with what we already have in abundance ...I am afraid T-Bone is planning to pick the pockets of the taxpayers to enrich himself ..... SELL GENERAL ELECTRIC STOCK AND DRILL DRILL DRILL .....COLOSSUS

Nickel, You are exactly right!
"Futures" markets react to percieved future events. Oil prices are high because those who invest in oil futures are forecasting future shortages of oil.

Every time something happens (like Pres. Bush's announcement) that gives the slightest indication that more areas will be opened to drilling, oil futures take a hit.

Pelosi and Reed don't want to allow a vote in congress on off-shore and ANWAR drilling because they know it would pass and if it does, crude prices will begin to crumble even before the first drill is in place.

Congress can force a vote by signing a petition. Call your congressman and senators and tell them you want, and expect them to sign the petition to allow debate! Unless, of course you think Pelosi and Reed should be annointed as dictators.

WORLD ROLE REVERSALS

.....At the end of the Cold War, as Communism collapsed in the Soviet Union, America was riding high as a free enterprise Capitalist Power House ...

.....My how times have changed ...now it is America that is moving toward Socialist/Marxism while Russia has replaced Communism with Fascist/Capitalism ...has implemented a Flat Tax while we still labor under a Marxist Progressive Income Tax and is agressively pursuing a policy of oil exploration while we are picking daisies and singing "We are the World" ...

.....As William Bendix on the old "Life of Reilly" used to say ..."What a disgustin' development this is" .....COLOSSUS

Nam65-66
Firstly, I own zero stocks of any kind.
Secondly, nowhere in my post did I advocate massive government spending for new technology. I hope "some guy tinkering in his garage" does come up with the answer. But I think that's about as likely as some guy tinkering in his garage in the 1960s figuring out how to put a man on the moon.

In any event, my only point was that we can't fuel our cars for another 100 years the same way we've done it for the past hundred years. The only reason the "new technology" isn't already here is that the oil companies and auto companies (and their lobby) have fought it tooth & nail for fifty years.

techwreck, "When did America change...
... from a "can-do" to a "can't-do" nation?"

When America listened to con-men like Algore and voted for Dumbo-crats for Congress.

We have been down this road before, but on a smaller scale, with the "ozone hole" remember?

We now know for sure that chloro-flouro-carbons have absolutely NOTHING to do with the thinning of the ozone over the Antarctic. It is a totally natural event caused by solar ejections.

The greenie-weenies beat the drum and our dear government made a sweetheart deal with Dupont to develop an alternative to the best refrigerants out there and THAT is how we got R-134A, an inferior, costlier refrigerant that cost the public many BILLIONS of dollars to switch to, costs more to build equipment to use it and costs more to run that equipment.

We got SCREWED over a fairy tale and most people don't even know it.

While that scam is very annoying, the global-warming / crude oil scam going on right now will be a catastrophe if its not stopped.

OH...........YES..........WE........CAN!!!

DRILL HERE, DRILL NOW, PAY LESS...AND SAVE AMERICA


A Rebellion In The Works?
This whole energy problem has been initiated on the big lie of Anthropogenic Global Warming. With the amount of evidence disproving AGW, it is obvious that members of Congress and opportunist like T.Boone, Al Gore and G.E. are willing to sell their souls for political power and money. I'm not opposed to business trying to make a dollar but I am opposed to them making that dollar based on lies and deception (AGW). I am also opposed to our elected officials forgetting they are Public Servants! When 74% of of our population wants the Congress to allow for drilling, we should expect the congress to serve our wishes and allow drilling!
There are 60 million vehicles that run on gasoline in this country. What would they have us do? Pay $4.00 per gal until we can save up to buy a $30K car that runs on Ever-Ready. Our Electric power generation is powered by coal. If you take away the AGW Fraud, then why would we want to invest in Windmills? If you take away the AGW Fraud, why should we not be drilling for oil.
Lets face it, a portion of the United States Government has gone over to the dark side of State Socialism. They want to be dictators and they will obviously lie and deceive to make this happen. When they get cap and trade passed, they will have full control of our business. If they control our business, they have full control of us and our economy.
The only way to combat this as individuals is by voting and most importantly, getting everybody you know to understand that Man Made Global Warming is a Fraud. Once people understand and believe this fact they will want to rebel.
Get educated about Anthropogenic Global Warming and then get the word out.


michigander
With respect, this is something I heave heard for years: "The technology exists but the oil companies are so powerful they keep it hidden!". That is an assertion I have heard in one form or another for as long as I can remember. And it is complete nonsense.

Since gas has gone up, what have the car companies done? Most of them have reverted to smaller more fuel efficient cars and even hybrids in order to sell more product.

I assure you, if someone came up with a renovation in energy, there would be no way the "Big Oil CEOs" could keep it from the public. And furthermore, there are pleny of fortune five hundred companies who would fight tooth and nail to hold the patents and have exclusivity. Can you imagine holding the patent to a car that runs on water and is practical? Would you bury that technology, or make billions selling it?

Fosil fuels will die a natural death, just like the steam locomotive or the telegraph. And nothing will stop it.

NWO
Thanks Sam for those youtube links, it's all starting to make sense now. It's time for a revolution before this goes much further, starting in Washington. We need our own secret society ASAP.

michigander, your comment is half right.
..and FAST! well half-fast anyway.

"The only reason the "new technology" isn't already here is that the oil companies and auto companies (and their lobby) have fought it tooth & nail for fifty years."

While it is true that established companies resist change UNLESS they can see a way to profit by it, entrapreneurs LOVE change because innovation is the way that they can break into a market.

Detroit no longer rules the automobile industry and the oil companies have been reduced to buying most of their crude on a world market. Both of those conditions are potent forces for both change and innovation.

BTW, never underestimate the individual inventor. Individual inventors have produced most of the major inventions that have changed the way we live, from the steam engine to television. Getting a man on the moon was not so much invention as it was massive effort; not the same thing at all. There are a great many new inventions that relate to energy coming down the pipe and many of them are because some guy had an idea.

Follow the money
Excellent article Mr. Borelli, and generally excellent posts. Thanks to Vic, Nam65-66, Cimarrone, Nickel, Wally and Sandrob. You folks give me some hope for the Republic - sorely needed following the latest socialist nonsense from Reid & Pelosi. Gore, Pickens & Immelt simply are coming across as fascist, in being businesses completely in bed with bureacrats for tax-funded gains.

Let capitalism rip or it will continue to move abroad. We can handle the environmental and health and safety stuff, and are among the best in the world at that. (Check mining fatalities - US had nine last year and the country was enraged. China has 15 fatalities every day... )

The carbon offset and rest of the goreball warming nonsense is state intervention where there is no justification. As noted earlier by Wally, AGW will be the CFC fiasco writ large, and taxpayers in the US will bear most of the cost.

Trust Al Gore as far as you can throw his SUV. Pickens as far as you can throw a wellhead. And GE as far as you can throw my leaking two-year-old washing machine of theirs.

Thank you! An adult analysis...finally!
This isn't about the tree-hugging hippies and international eco-fascists, it's about certain global corporations who see the world as one big potential market. They are the ones driving the one-world-without-borders agenda where sovereign nations need to be reduced to mere markets. The Constitution is a major hinderance to GE which is trying to reposition itself as the world banker trading in the new currency, carbon credits. Forget about returning to the gold standard, it's all about carbon these days and science is threatening to take down the new Religion of Global Warming. Both presidential candidates are worshiping at that altar. What are we going to do about it? Hold our noses again? Ignore the fear-mongering and race-baiting. Vote 3rd party. No one gets shot and no one goes to jail. Life WILL go on after November 5.

Wise man said
Follow the money!! You'll find the politicians in line.

BTW, Pickens IS right
We cannot drill out way OUT of this problem. We need to drill to buy time and end our dependency on imported energy (not just oil). I listened to at least 2 extensive interviews of Pickens in the past two weeks and I don't have a problem with any part of his position. The solution is "all of the above" including drilling, nuclear, wind, solar, shale oil, coal, and everything else except hydroelectric. It isn't "oil against the world". We are OUT of CHEAP oil and we can't wish it back. Oil has become too important to burn and will soon become too expensive for its many other uses if we don't stop burning. We have about 30 years to work on an intermediate solution and about 50 years to get off of oil entirely. That is not my opinion. The planet is only so big and 90 million barrels per day and growing 2+% annually is BIG BIG BIG. There are no oceans of undiscovered high quality oil gushers out there. We will soon be MINING most of it. What do you think shale oil is? I'll tell you one thing it isn't, cheap. Wind and solar are now fairly cheap and will get much cheaper soon.

Hey techreck
I agree with everything you said, except "unproven global warming".
Anthropogenic Global Warming has been Disproved beyond any reasonable doubt.
Every IPCC Assessment Report has been riddled with fraud. There are a huge Global Warming Industries and International Bureaucracies that have been created as the result of the IPCC Assessments.
For us as American Citizens, to take our country back, we have to first dispel the Fraud and then get rid of every corrupt politician that espoused the fraud.
Every politician that accepts AGW today is either corrupt, unwilling to rock the boat or a completely ignorant fool and has no business holding an elected office.
Think about the trillions of dollars that have been invested, or should I say wasted on a world wide basis. People that have participated in this fraud, i.e. Al Gore and James Hansen just to name a few, should be behind bars.
If you need proof that AGW is a Fraud, let me know, I will post a list of non-political and credible URL links.

Congress is paid off not to Drill
US Congress is paid off by foreign central banks, Exxon, British Petroleum, etc. to not discover resources.

Congress is paid off by foreign central banks to stay clear of the "Executive Branch" and do nothing about drilling. Congress will put up a "dog & pony" show for the American people to buy time until all power is consolidated at the "Executive Branch".

All power in the United States is being consolidated into 1 branch - "Excecutive". This is to allow Barack Obama (2009 President) the path to pass global Carbon Credits, North American Union Toll Roads, North American Tribunals, Federal Emergency Management Camps and to keep the public brainwashed with "global terrorism".

Congress will DO NOTHING. YOU WILL HAVE TO PROVIDE FORCE Cngress through the Congressional Switchboard. If that does not work, there were amendments in our "Bill of Rights" that Americans may have to perform. I think Americans know which amendment this may come down to.



Letter to the Editor

This is from my Letter to the Editor, published 20 years ago.

The old story that high gasoline taxes and a good transportation system will get the cars off the streets, is a myth. Visit Paris (with the best subway system of any city, and $4 per gallon gasoline), or Rome (where gas is about $5 per gallon, but the subway system is not so great) and you will see that driving and parking in any city in the USA is a "Walk in the Park" by comparison.

the ugly “Pickens.”


Have you ever seen those ugly wind mills? I am afraid that most people imagine that the picturesque wind mills shown in all the Holland pictures, are what is being built. No way. The engineers were told to make it ugly.

One ugly oil well will supply more power than a thousand of the ugly “Pickens.” In the Palm Springs area when I lived for years, they admitted they scattered thousands of mills of every style and size, just for the tax shelter aspect.

If someone had proposed to built a nice looking billboard, with a picture of Marilyn Monroe, the envior-tratiors would have screamed to high hell (they don’t believe in Heaven).


Items made from oil
If you need more reasons to drill for oil, type "items made from oil" into your search bar.

You will find a website that lists 129 items - everything from heart valves, to footballs, to lipstick, to artifiaial limbs, to clothing, to tires and ink - ad infinitum.

bob connely, phoenix

Why The Debate?
I don't see why we can't do both? No one is arguing that offshore drilling and ANWAR are the solutions to our energy problems. In fact, by the time these come into production we may not even need them but they may be good insurance.

We need ALL forms of domestic energy --
It shouldn't take the IQ of a genius to realize we need ALL formms of domestic energy, including oil exploration, IMMEDIATELY, with alternative energy sources being the ultimate goal.

Al Gore, Jeff Immelt, and T. Boone Picken promote climate change fears and bash oil exploration for one reason -- their personal financial gain!

Hey michigander
We have what is called a Free Market. It has served our country well for over 200 years. We have the most efficient and productive country in the world. New Technologies will be developed as the Free Market dictates and not until then. Prius was an example of the Free Market. Toyota looked at how many stupid tree huggers were out there that would buy the Prius just to make themselves feel good and went with it. I would venture to say that even with this bump in the road oil problem, they (the tree huggers)will probably loose out in the end. If I am wrong about this, it will only substantiate that the Free Market still works.

Think to yourself "Man-Made Global Warming is a Fraud" and all of this is for naught.

Al Gore,Useful Idiot
Al Gore is so stupid he doesn't realize he is being used by the socialists to gain control of the economy and destroy our way of life in the US.

Or maybe he does know what is going on and agrees with it. He must hate us for not electing him,especially his own state who did not support him.

Some in the press ridiculed him when he ran for president,even though they were for him. He probably has an ax to grind with them,too.

Whatever his reasons,he is a thoroughly reprehensible human being and needs to just go away.


Pasadena, Pickens is at least half right
We certainly do need to be planning for the future. I don't happen to think that his windmills are a very big part of the answer just due to the variability.

I have a LOT more faith in geothermal. For example, there is enough geothermal energy just in the caldera under Yellowstone National Park to give us all the electrical power we would ever need for the foreseeable future. And, oh BTW, harvesting that energy might just possibly prevent a super volcanic eruption that would obliterate half of the Western U.S.

Meanwhile, There are those who maintain that they can extract oil from shale with in-situ processes, not mining, for $50/bbl. Not "cheap" but compared to what we are paying, not bad.

Hey Pasadena Phil
You said wind and solar are cheap. How cheap are they when you take out the government subsidies? I read something about the state of Texas subsidizing T.Boone's windmills for a large chunk (not sure but I think it was $500 mil.). That doesn't include his federal subsidies. If it won't stand on it's own, it is a loosing proposition. Someone else on this post brought up that if the government gets involved it's guaranteed to turn to S##t!
When the government subsidizes something like ethanol, they just take money from away from us in the form of taxes and then give a little of it back in the form of a subsidy. Subsidies will generally garner campaign contributions and get votes but are not good for the average citizen. I think I can spend my money better than our Socialist government can.

CONGRESS PAID OFF TO SHUT DRILLING
ALL DRILLING IS BEING SHUT OFF. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU AMERICAN SHEEP DON'T GET. DON'T YOU REALIZE THIS IS NOT A LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT.

Do you like being run over and being gamed by your government and corporations? Why don't you show some balls. If you are such men on the war on terror, why don't you use that testosterone to pressure congress into drilling.

Why don't you show some testosterone to let your congressmen know that this government is a fraudulent government and that it is being paid off by corporations, foreign central banks to shut all energy production down and to create a modern feudal state.

Are you going to curl in your cave and blame the TREE HUGGERS like Bin Ladin? Show some balls and brains.


Isn't it funny?
Eight years ago, the Democrats tried to put Al Gore in the White House. They even tried to use the courts to get him in the White House after he lost the election. Then they whined about how he was "cheated" out of the presidency.

In the last few years, Gore has been proven himself to be the raving lunatic we conservatives have always said he is. Now the Democrats are trying to pretend that they don't even know him!

CONGRESS ARE TERRORISTS
UNITED STATES CONGRESS ARE ECO-TERRORIST FUNDED BY GE, BP, Exxon, European Cental Banks.

Pelosi, Boehner are pocketing 10-20 million from these banks and companies to shut off all energy. When you look at Pelosi and John Boehner, John McCain, Barack Obama you are looking at "Osama Bin Ladin "legislating energy policy in the United States.




GE's ownershio of NBC
There is a real and present danger when corporate giants like GE are allowed to bias the news via corporate owned news venues in order to promote their own technology and sales efforts. The fact that Fat Albert Gore would assist in that effort is no surprise; his personal value system is based on agrandizment and greed.

What oil shortage?
For the past 40+ years the left have been taking over this country. Like the frog in the pan, turning up the heat a little at a time!

They started in the collages and have now succeeded in taking complete control of the entire education system in this country, turning out thousands of good little socialists every year from Gov. Schools. They found the environment as a method to accomplish most of it. They now have complete control of the media and even the Library systems in this country and are working on the economy.

They cant do it in the open, but just like the poor stupid frog in the pan, a little bit at a time and no one notices. Its been over 20 years since they were able stop the oil drilling in the Arctic. They have managed to stop most domestic drilling on Federal lands since. We don’t have a shortage in oil, we have a shortage in common sense in Washington. Just ask yourself, “why would anyone be against drilling?” The only answer I have ever heard comes from people that are recently educated by Gov. Schools and are afraid that we will destroy the planet. What arrogance! We cant even predict the weather a week in advance, yet they have convinced people that we will destroy the planet by drilling/using the one product that has been the reason of all of our prosperity.

Why is "profit" a crime?
Read all the comments here incriminating Pickens because he is an investor. I have said this many times but I don't see the new Republican party is any different from Democrats when it comes to preferring government solutions to private industry, open market solutions. Why does it matter that Pickens will be profiting from the right solution? That is the way the capitalism system works! Are we capitalists or aren't we?

So how about solar power satellites?
--
If you want to go into an area where:

(a) the solution is pollution-free,

(b) everything pays to American technological strengths,

(c) the potential for high-tech jobs creation is *MASSIVE*, and

(d) the blue-state NIMBY butt-holes can't give you flak


...then the solution is in solar power satellites and power reception rectennae entirely based in red states.

Hell, considering that Nevada could make a helluva lot of money on this, even that Democrat schmuck (Senator Reid) would get behind this notion.

See http://tinyurl.com/686th8 for a discussion of the subject.

I'm big-time in favor of light water nuclear fission powerplants, but the more you look at it - whether they're placed in low earth orbit (LEO) or the much more efficient geosynchronous earth orbit (GEO, or Clarke orbit), solar power satellites offer the only really viable form of "solar power" that can or will ever exist.

If we can't get fusion powerplants on line here on earth, why not suck a few billion trillion ergs off the one that's flaming a mere 93,000,000 miles away?

--

Pasadena Phil
It's not that TBone will profit from wind farms, it's that he will profit with my tax dollars. He wants the subsity that goes with the wind farms. He wants wind power to be mandated and substidise (sorry about the spelling).

Its almost exaactly the same pattern that the Ethanol industry is using. Get the gov to back a product that can not compete without taxpayer money, then get the gov to mandate a certain amount that must be used.

Our pal Al
I wonder if Al Gore knows the meaning of the word hypocrite? Out pal Al is on a personal crusade to clean up our environment and destroy the oil companies in the process. But is he really? It is a fact that Al Gore has been a major mover in Occidental Oil stocks for quite sometime. At the same time he invests in "alternative" energy sources with his pal Geroge Soros so that when/if he succeeds in destroying the oil companies he'll have already be invested in new/"renewable" energy sources. What about his long held investments in zinc mines in Tennessee? Al Gore with his Michael Moore approach to energy/climate issues creates a FARCE crockumentary blaming CO2 and fossil fuels for supposed global warming. What our pal Al didn't tell us is that the poor polar bears shown weren't filmed at the time but some 15 years earler. Then you have his socialist buddies at the UN called the IPCC. This is a group of politicians telling world leaders that global warming is real and a scientific "consensus". Funny thing is that last time they had their conference over 400 REAL climate scientists sent them an open letter stating that 1) Global warming is NOT a consensus, 2) NO warming has occured in over a decade, 3) there is no proof that CO2 is a "greenhouse gas", and 4) they advise world leaders to use resources to better prepare their respective countries for "possible consequences" of warming which they admit is still only a theory supported by faulty models which require CONSTANT changes to explain they're POOR track record of predicting climate change. Not surprising this open letter was COMPLETLY IGNORED by the IPCC because it did not support their mantra about consensus OR PROOF of climate change already being touted by them. Then you have the world's leading expert on polar bears who reported just last year that of the 11 families of Polar bears, 9 are thriving and the other two holding their own.

WE NO LONGER HAVE A FREE MARKET

.....SANDROB ....

.....We had a free market from 1865 to 1900 ...during those years America went from a wilderness to an industrial power ...then Teddy began to attack the "Robber Barons" who built this empire ...

.....Next came the Karl Marx progressive income tax (wealth re-distribution) and FDR's witholding taxes and socialist Ponzi schemes ...and finally LBJ's "Great Society" to put the cherry on top ...

.....What we have now is government regulation and virtual control of business with big business forced into a quasi-partnership with government just to survive ...ala General Electric ...

.....Our markets are no longer free and if present trends continue ...soon we will no longer be free either .....COLOSSUS

The Dems have another agenda
No one wants a stop the development of alternative fuels, new autos, or distribution.
We want affordable gasoline now.
The horse and buggy were not outlawed because sometime in the future automobiles would be the means of transportation.
Common Sense says we should be drilling for our own oil. We have more oil in the US than in all of the Middle East combined. Our gasoline profits could be partly used for development of new alternatives. Some could even be used to pay for all those entitlement programs the Dems want instead of raping the citizens thru more taxation.
Why aren't they doing this? Two reasons. 1. They are in bed with the environmental wackos and 2. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future.
(Change, change, change = Barack Obama)

That is a quote from Sal Alinsky, the communist. If anyone thinks the citizens aren't going to feel this way when gas gets to be $12/gal as Obama suggested, you're sorely mistaken.

The Democrats wish to make us the United Socialist States of America. Make no mistake about it. If you continue to vote these communists and socialists into office, we will all be living like Detroit. Wake the heck up!
DRILL HERE. DRILL NOW.

ModMark
I know plenty about oil but I am hardly an expert. As to what we should be drilling for, natural gas is a by-product of oil. Normally, oil fields are capped by a rock formation called a dome that traps natural gas. The super giant oil fields were under so much natural pressure that they don't have natural gas domes and the natural gas had to be "flamed out" or separated to be pumped back into the well to maintain the pressure. My understanding is that domestic natural gas reserves are not that substantial but we should be using whatever we have.

Natural gas is much more problematic (dangerous) than oil and so is not a good fuel to import. That is why there are only four (3?) LNG facilities. Great terrorist targets.

What we need from the government is a policy that establishes what the rules are as we work our way forward. It is more of a capital allocation problem than it is a scientific problem. We don't want to be caught over-investing in one technology were a superior technology to break through. Very hard to predict. The ultimate solution is at least 50 years away and I haven't read anything that thinks otherwise. The science just isn't there and even if it were, we would have to convert the world to a different infrastructure. Quality of life is more perception than reality and it takes a couple of generations for people to embrace a radical new model for free societies. We need to feel the pain if we are ever going to abandon a rapidly failing model.

Battery powered cars and subsidies
Battery powered cars. They will be on the market in 2010. You recharge the cars with electricity. Haven't you been watching the news about the Chevy Volt that will run on Lithium batteries. The Japanese ware also working on their version. Soon NO GAS will be needed.

copied from the Washington Post.
" House of Representatives brushed aside threats of a White House veto yesterday and voted 236 to 182 in favor of an $18 billion tax rescinding tax breaks for the five biggest oil companies and use the revenue to boost incentives for wind and solar energy and energy efficiency."
18 billion in tax breaks to the 5 big oil companies is a pretty darned big tax subsidy.
So why not subsidize wind and solar. You don't have to drill for it, you don't have to build polluting refineries. And the supply won't ever run out!. T Boone's has got it right. Keep all those dollars at home.



bob from PA, you wrote...
"Can you imagine holding the patent to a car that runs on water and is practical? Would you bury that technology, or make billions selling it?"

Uh, well, if I was an oil comany I'd probably try to bury it. But your point is well taken. Hey, I'm getting a bad rap on here. I'm a drill, drill, drill guy. My first post simply suggested we keep our minds open to new, innovative ways to power our cars. Somehow that got interpreted that I own stock in a friggin windmill farm.

Techreck
"they are worry-warts about unproven "global warming".

Unproven global warming eh? Take a look at what is happening in Australia due to climate change. They are loosing their Murray River, the largest river on the continent. It would be like the US loosing he Mississippi
http://news.smh.com.au/national/govts-planning-to-save-drin king-water-20080720-3i0w.html

Remember the warnings from the climate scientists. Climate change will first be expressed with more severe droughts, and floods. Warming will bring more severe storms including tornados and hurricanes, more forest fires as forests dry out and are damaged from insects as they thrive in warmer temperatures.

Have you watched what is happening in the mid west. 8 -12 inch down pours in 24 hours. Prime bottom land along the Mississippi flooded, Iowa's corn crop damaged by downpour after downpour.

Have you noticed the 350 forest fires going in California at one time.
The smoke blew into my state Oregon (and I live in central oregon) making our skies green and reducing visibility.

Canadian forests dying because of insect damage then lightning strikes and forest fires result. http://foretscanada.rncan.gc.ca/articletopic/36

There may be 400 doubting scientists but there were 2000 scientists alone that contributed to the IPCC report. And that is not counting the 10's of thousands that are quietly at work on their research in universities adding to our knowledge of climate change. There will always be doubters, don't forget the flat earth society, but the facts are becoming very apparent that climate change is real.

Hey Mr. Pickens!
Q: Where does natural gas come from?

A: Out of the ground!

If we drill for more oil, there is also coal and natural gas down there!

Figure it out!

chicaree you're a moron
Yes, unproven global warming. the fires in Cali are from our enviro friends not allowing any logging (and consequently) clearing the dead brush out. What arrogance you greenies have! You puff yourselves up with the idea that man can somehow affect this planet. We've been cooling for the last 10 years, not warming. Every repub running for office this term should issue the American people this challenge... put us in office an we drill Jan. 21. Put the dems back in power and pay $6/gal, and drive your sardine cans at 55mph.

Hurricane Dolly
When she was close to the coast of Texas the news reported that many were happy because her path had changed and she was going to miss several thousand off shore drilling rigs. Who owns those? If others can drill off our shores and potentially pollute our shoreline, why can't we? What's the difference?

The liberals attack big oil because big oil is freedom. If libs can compromise energy then they have full control over our lives. Stupid government mandates. They're trying to stunt the growth of America.

THAT DOES IT

.....CHICAREE supports T-Bone ...

.....I was leery about T-Bone using the government to grant himself emminent domain rights and tax subsidies that benefit his financial interests but now that Chicaree is on his team, he has moved up to right behind Al Gore on my sh*t list .....COLOSSUS

.....Chickadee ...buy an electric car, put solar panels on your roof and a windmill in your backyard and then shut up about what the rest of us ought to do ...personally I like to drive my Hummer and dune buggy on weekends and hunt endangered species ...

Hi modmark
who mentioned conspiracy?

My argument isn't with who's drilling. I don't care who drills off our shores as long as we are allowed to be there too.

The hypocrisy is with the libs. If they really cared about the environment and global warming and no drilling for oil in or around America, they wouldn't have allowed those leases to be sold.

They only care that the US isn't allowed to have the oil it needs to be prosperous, which has nothing to do with the environment. The environment is just their excuse.


modmark
Sign L.O.S.T.?

You must be kidding. It's a huge giveaway of national sovereignty.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58 721

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55 729

"... [S]overeignty over the territorial sea is exercised subject to this Convention and to other rules of international law."

Not only would this treaty give the U.N. jurisdiction over the open seas – 70 percent of the Earth's surface – it would require that U.S. sovereignty over U.S. territorial seas be exercised "... subject to this Convention and other rules of international law." Outrageous! And this is one of the least offensive provisions.

The treaty also creates an International Seabed Authority with the power to levy a $250,000 tax (application fee) on anyone who wishes to explore the seabed. It would also tax (royalties) everything that might be excavated from the seabed. It requires technology transfer from the nations that have technology to the nations that don't – under the supervision of the U.N., of course. A more thorough analysis of the treaty is available online.




Who cares!

What GE, Al Gore and the Dems have to say. What the freaking, bloody hell are the Republicans doing? And the fool running for potus?



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=644 82

"Cap McCain's hot air"

The most compelling reason to reject McCain's cap-and-trade proposal is the enormous expansion of power it would bestow upon the executive branch of government: THE ABSOLUTE POWER TO CONTROL THE MOST IMPORTAND SOURCE OF PRODUCTION - ENERGY.


But then, that is exactly the point isn't it? And the point of the global warming scam.


How about we talk about the collapsing dollar (bad monetary policy) and how that affects how much we pay for oil.


GAWD!!!






The answer

WOW, I have the answer. Just put a wind mill on each car, and you will get all the power you need. You don’t believe that? As you drive on the highway at 70 miles per hour, just hold your hand out the window and see how powerful that air really is.




Bury it, or steal it

bob Location: PA
Reply # 29
Date: Jul 26, 2008 - 11:03 AM EST
Can you imagine holding the patent to a car that runs on water and is practical? Would you bury that technology, or make billions selling it?
=========

What a wonderful idea, I never heard of that until 70 years ago when a neighbor drove to Pittsburgh and back on a gallon of gasoline. Some gasoline company broke into his garage and stole the carburetor.

Power is needed somewhere

ModMark Location: NY
Reply # 68
Date: Jul 26, 2008 - 6:08 PM EST
Subject: chicaree
"Chevy Volt that will run on Lithium batteries. The Japanese ware also working on their version. Soon NO GAS will be needed. "

===========

That is, no gasoline needed right in the car, but somewhere that electricity must be generated, using some kind of power. Now they complain about the smog near the Grand Canyon, from the electric plants, put there so the smog didn’t bother any people.

Fifty years ago a nuclear scientist said electricity would be free by 2000. How about that, no cost to charge the battery.

But the envior-traitors killed that idea.

ModMark
I will try to read the articles.

My point isn't really about rights. What bothers me is the libs are trying to prevent us from drilling anywhere, or building new refineries, or building new nuclear plants. Their objective is to protect the environment, but they have no complaint with the rest of the world drilling off our shores.

If it was really an issue of protecting the environment wouldn't we hear the libs complain about anybody wanting to drill off our shores?

Detroit
Konniebay in Wis. stated that the democrats want to make this country the "United Socialist States" and if we continue to vote them in, we will all be living like Detroit. WOW! Trust me. This is one scary thought. I live in the Detroit area, and IT IS NOT A PRETTY SIGHT!!! Corruption from top to bottom (heard about the mayor Kilpatrick under indictment?) crime, foreclosures through the roof,highest unemployment rate in the US, You name it, we lead in it. And just yesterday Mrs. Pelosi came to town to help Mr. Kilpatrick's mother be reelected to her state office. What an indorsement! Please don't let the US become like Detroit.This is one threat the citizens should take seriously.

Electricity
A greater percentage of our electricity will soon be generated by Wind and solar. There are so many applications for leases in the Southwest for solar plants BLM can't handle them all. For now the electricity for the Volt, will come from the grid at night when power demand is at its lowest. The power companies are already gearing up for the plug in cars. They say they will handle it just as they did when the power hungry plasma TV's came on the scene. One more thing the Volt will have a small gas engine to recharge the batteries on long trips. So it will take some gas initially but look how quickly technology can change. Computers is just one example.

As for the power plants and their pollution...There have been successful prototypes built for.coal fired plants that capture C02 from the smoke stacks. Once it is captured it can be sequestered in abandoned oil wells or better use is to bubble it through tanks of algae as fertilizer. Algae is right now is being processed into biodiesel. There are lots of energy sources that are near commercial use and will arrive long before the years it will take to explore and drill off shore or in ANWR. Drilling in those places is not simply sticking a pipe into the ground and pulling out oil. It is going to take a lot more sophisticated equipment and the work is in challenging environments. ANWR has the most harsh climate on the planet. Another block to ANWR drilling is the tundra is now melting in the summer. There now is scattered with lakes bubbling out methane from the melting ground. Bacterial action on the vegetation in the ground produces the methane, a potent greenhouse gas. Oil companies won't be able to work in ANWR except for a few months each year. Winter, too cold at 60 below, Summer too mushy from the melt to get their equipment to the sites. Then imagine the difficulty getting the pipelines built.

Hey Sam
I respect a lot of what you say and have agreed with a lot of your post, but just not this one.
I also posted this at Barone's article.
I watched the YouTube video and I found both articles in the YouTube video and read them in full.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6607757.stm
http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=108&subsecID =127&contentID=252629

I just don't see it. It looks like another Conspiracy Theory to me. A lot of claims like the Spanish company hired to construct the NAFTA Trade highway. I ask you this, what if the company was Canadian? Would it look like an NAU conspiracy? I have a relative whose company was hired to build in a bridge in Europe. NAFTA included Mexico and Canada. The highway from Mexico to Canada seems reasonable to me.
In the beginning of the video GW makes a comment regarding Global Warming that I didn't like but he more than made up for it at the G8 meeting when he smiled and jabbed his fist in the air and said "goodbye from the world biggest polluter". Bush has been fighting AGW. Just not hard enough. I think if you want to look for conspiracies, look not further than the UN's IPCC and our Socialist in Congress.

Who is John Galt?

help
Ding Dong; Honey who's that at the door? Ity's that Al Gore guy wanting money. Well... the back yard does need to be mowed... send him around to the back. Hi Al, hows the global warming business? Slow... well I can throw a few dollars your way, just run the mower around the yard. DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? Al Gore, inventor of the internet,discovered global warming, won the Nobel prize, won the academy award. Yes... well you don't have to get so upitty, I was just offering you a work-for-donation.

Paradigm Shifts
Gore understands that we are in the early stages of a paradigm shift from the fossil fuel age to the age of sustainable energy. Pickens grasps at least a part of that, and is acting constructively. Borelli obviously doesn't "get it," and as a result all he can do is rail against what he doesn't understand. That's a frequent malady for conservatives.

what a brilliant notion
To fix the gas crunch we just need to *all go buy new cars*.

This is the kind of idiocy I couldn't dream up if I had to.

Wind generation not reliable
Electricity runs critical needs such as hospital equipment.

Wind generation is subject to unexpected loss of said wind.

Our nation's electric grid has years of experience with this - the net result is the conventional electric sources MUST run at 90% capacity in case of loss of wind brown-out.

That means: coal-fired; natural gas fired; nuclear.

Therefore we will need to build even more conventional electric generation to back-up the wind-farm stuff.

Only conventional works; only conventional can pay its own way; both now and into the distanct future.

Valiant - Why do mundanes tend...?
--
...so reliably to be technologically illiterate?

Right or left, conservative or "Liberal," mundanes (by which is meant people who don't read SF or think like science fiction fen) bring to the discussion of every subject a crippling incapacity.

They don't really think.

They're not used to abstract reasoning, and they don't have any real affinity for finding solutions to problems through the exercise of scientific method and fairly straightforward engineering.

Nothing personal, but what the hell is it with mundanes and the "energy crisis," anyway? It's raining soup, and mundanes insist that everybody has to stand out there with forks in their hands.

So no wonder people are starving to death.

Look, I've already mentioned solar power satellites once on this thread, and its as if I'd dropped a brick down the deepest well on the planet. Not even so much as the echo of a splash.

All you people are talking about is "coal-fired; natural gas fired; nuclear," and I'm pretty sure that nobody thus far commenting on this thread has any idea of the difference between a light water moderated fission powerplant and a Chernobyl-type graphite-moderated installation.

Nor (for yet another example) the fact that coal-burning powerplants of output capacity equal to that of a typical "old technology" light water nuclear facility (the ones we've been allowed to keep running in these United States) puts *MORE* carcinogenic ionizing radiation into the environment - along with chemical carcinogens galore - than does a light-water nuke.

There's quite a bit of thorium in coal, and those radioactive isotopes do *not* just disappear by magic when the coal is burned.

Mundanes don't seem to know very much about stuff like this.

And they're not really interested in learning, are they?

--

Whata' surprise!!!!
Al Gore using someone's words as his own(We can't drill our way out of this) and pushing Gorebal warming. The next thing you know he'll be up for another Pulitzer prize. The last one was from a cracker jacks box I hear.


Drill here, drill now, drill often. And the same three words for building new refineries.

My Take
Michigander: right on.

ValiantforTruth: true, but only for the moment. The geeks and engineers are working on practical and economic ways to store wind energy, and release it as needed and smoothly.

Coal is ugly stuff. Many lives are lost in coal mining, and not just in foreign lands. Coal has serious amounts of mercury and sulfur. The ash left over has toxics. Does anyone remember the deadly mine disaster in Utah a few months ago?

Natural gas is the way to go. The world is chock-full of it.

And, to the poster above who said gas is a byproduct of oil, true but not always so. Many wells are natural gas only.

And electricity has everything to do with oil, notwithstanding the contrary postings. In past decades that may have been true. But modern, enlightened people understand that windmills generate power, solar power plants generate power 24/7 by storing hot oil, and cars now run on electricity. More will do so, and soon.

Power companies believe they will, and as posted earlier, are gearing up just like they did for millions of plasma tvs.

GE is one of the good guys. Their windmills and hybrid train systems are selling as fast as they can make them. And not just in the U.S.A.

-- Roger E. Sowell, SOB. Society of Oil Boilers

Shale Gas
ModMark: have a look at Barnett Shale in north Texas. Might be the same type of stuff as your Marcellus.

http://www.thebarnettshale.com/

-- Roger E. Sowell, SOB. Society of Oil Boilers

Oil & Gas Shales, answer for US energy
As a petroleum geologist with 25+ years of experience, I would like to weigh in on this debate.

The following are oil & gas shale exploration areas that have really just started to heat up and WILL HELP to eleviate our future energy woes.

1. the Bakken Oil shale of Dakotas & Montana
estimated to have 80-400 Billon barrels of oil

2. the Barnett & Woodford Shales of Texas & Oklahoma with 30-300 TRILLION cu ft of gas

3. the Lewis & Mancos of New Mexico & Colorado
estimated to have another 90 TRILLION cu ft gas

4. the New Albany of the Illinois & Ohio basin
estimated 80-160 TRILLION cu ft of gas reservves

5. the Antrim formation of northern Michigan
estimated to have 35-75 TRILLION cu ft reserves

6. the Devonian/Ohio of the western appliachian states is estimated to be 225-250 trillion cu ft

Other areas that are just now starting to see new drilling and are of yet unkown but possibly even greater potentials are the Haynesville Shale formation of north west Louisiana & north east Texas, and the Tuscaloosa Marine Shale of south Mississippi, & south east Louisiana which has been estimated to have as much as 10-50 BILLION recoverable barrels potiential.

The biggest and most prolific is the Green River Shale of Utah, Colorado & Wyoming which although is currently 80%+ restricted by the government (Congress), from exploration may contain 800 BILLION-1.2 TRILLION recoverable barrels of oil, 3-4 times Saudi Arabias reserves, equalling 120 years of reserves by itself.

Currently 3/4 of offshore lease block areas are BANNED by Congress from exploration with potential of 20-??? BILLION barrels of oil.

Of 19 Million acres of ANWR, only 2500-4500 acres will be needed to drill there which is 0.02% of the land there leaving 99.98% UNTOUCHED. ANWR would be the quickest & easiest to produce geologically.

Drilling=state's lease/royalty & revenue
Drilling= state's lease/royalty & revenue $

The state of Alabama receives $500 million dollars each year in lease & royalty revenues from petroleum exploration/production activities annually...

With many states seeing tighter budgets, drilling could be a big part of the answer to helping them out with budgetary short falls...

Imagine just how much increase in state revenues, that the states COULD & SHOULD be getting, if the federal government (Congress) as well as state legislatures and governments would only adopt environmentally safe pro-drilling & exploration policies...

Alabama has a very small coast and is ranked only 9th in the nation when it comes to oil & gas exploration...

The state of Alabama through the excellent direction & oversight of the Alabama State Oil & Gas Board has probably the best governmental environmentally safe pro-drilling aproach & policies of any state or federal agency that I know of, and should be a model of how government can be a positive factor in promoting and establishing environmentally safe pro-drilling/petroleum production policies & procedures in my humble opinion as a petroleum exploration geologist...

(info from above can be found @ the Alabama State Oil & Gas Board web site & publications...)

http://www.ogb.state.al.us/gsa/petro_sys.html

For the Bozo-Brains out there
I am so tired of hearing the libs screeching that we need to be working on the development of alternative energy sources, as if we aren’t already doing just that. Here’s a basic economic lesson for these screechers: The market will reward anyone who develops viable, profitable energy alternatives – period.

Horse and buggy salesman were not able to stop automobiles; telegraph companies could not stop the telephone; radio could not stop TV; railroads could not stop planes; etc., etc., etc. There is no stopping good innovation and silly theories about oil companies being able to stand in the way of marketable energy alternatives are just that – silly!

Wind and solar are not new concepts. People have been trying for many decades to capitalize on them as energy alternatives but haven’t been able to successfully market them. Why? Because they are grossly inefficient! Wind power has an efficiency quotient of something like 11%. Does it really take a genius to figure out why? Can’t you liberals walk out your back door and observe the wind and sun patterns around your home and see that they are not exactly consistent from day to day or even from minute to minute?

How obnoxious is it that liberals stamp their feet and demand that we come up with alternative energies within some arbitrary time frame (as in Al Gore’s 10-year demand), even while they have no viable ideas of their own?

CW
Liberals can't think, they parrot. It's a known congenital defect. See Michael Savage's book Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder.

Does anyone think Al Gore thought up all that disinformation in his crock-u-mentary movie? He was fed the info as Truth, saw an opportunity to be a Hero, and parroted it from his bully pulpit.

Inefficiency is not the primary reason wind and solar have not achieved great acceptance. Economies of scale had more to do with it. Clouds still block the sun, and it still gets dark, and wind stops at times, but larger generation systems are much more economic.

There are also alternative non-fossil and non-nuclear technologies that generate power 24/7: geothermal, solar CSP with storage, tidal power with storage, and wave-power. Wind-power with storage is nearly here.

see

http://www.eere.doe.gov for background on all of these.

Geeks and Engineers. Saviors of Society (TM)

-- Roger E. Sowell, SOB. Society of Oil Boilers

drilling offshore...
Alright, I have said this before, that ANWR would be the quickest & most economical oil formations to go after first, BUT, given that right now there seems to be less political will to go after ANWR, then the next best and politicallly most likely would be the OFFSHORE leases, which may hold far more than anyone knows since so much of it has been totally unexplored...

But currently at this time Congress still continues to BAN offshore exploration in 75+5 of all offshore lease blocks...

Thirdly with the greatest potential of 3-4 times Saudi Arabia's estimated oil reserves is the Green River Shale of Colorado, Wyoming, & Utah, which is currently 80+% resticted from drilling by Congrss...

The Green River does cost more however than conventional fields to produce due to more costly recovery methods needed to produce it...

As far as the Destin dome goes, it sits right in the middle of the vital training mission areas of Eglin Air Force Base & Naval Air Station Pensacola as well as Hurlburt Field USAF base, and Tyndal Field USAF base as well...

This area is now where the bombing and missle test ranges & training mission lost in Puerto Rico went to over 10 years ago, and would cost billions of dollars to relocate again...

However there can be compromise worked out with the military on encroachment issues...

Also there is the potiential of 5-13 billion barrels of oil off the Florida Keys that China/Cuba are partnering to go after right now while we sit idle...

I live in the Florida panhandle and encroachment of the military training areas is a HUGE political issue there locally not to mention strategically to the military and support industry there too...

drilling offshore...
Drilling offshore...
Alright, I have said this before, that ANWR would be the quickest & most economical oil formations to go after first, BUT, given that right now there seems to be less political will to go after ANWR, then the next best and politicallly most likely would be the OFFSHORE leases, which may hold far more than anyone knows since so much of it has been totally unexplored...

But currently at this time Congress still continues to BAN offshore exploration in 75+% of all offshore lease blocks...

Thirdly with the greatest potential of 3-4 times Saudi Arabia's estimated oil reserves is the Green River Shale of Colorado, Wyoming, & Utah, which is currently 80+% resticted from drilling by Congrss...

The Green River does cost more however than conventional fields to produce due to more costly recovery methods needed to produce it...

As far as the Destin dome goes, it sits right in the middle of the vital training mission areas of Eglin Air Force Base & Naval Air Station Pensacola as well as Hurlburt Field USAF base, and Tyndal Field USAF base as well...

This area is now where the bombing and missle test ranges & training mission lost in Puerto Rico went to over 10 years ago, and would cost billions of dollars to relocate again...

However there can be compromise worked out with the military on encroachment issues...

Also there is the potiential of 5-13 billion barrels of oil off the Florida Keys that China/Cuba are partnering to go after right now while we sit idle...

I live in the Florida panhandle and encroachment of the military training areas is a HUGE political issue there locally not to mention strategically to the military and support industry there too...

Sam T
Just curious. As a hydrocarbon exploration geologist, how do all these recent shale oil and gas discoveries fit into the fossil fuel theory vs. Thomas Gold's theory? Is there any debate on this subject within the community? What about the recent Arctic discovery?

"Fidel Castro announced China to help"
QUOTE:
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/08/Worldandnation/Cuba_seeks _oil_near_K.shtml

Cuba seeks oil near Keys

Few Americans paid much attention last year when Cuban President Fidel Castro announced China would help explore potentially large oil reserves off Cuba's northwest coast - not far from the Florida Keys.

But now - with gas prices climbing above $3 a gallon - the prospect of China drilling near the United States has become a hot political issue as two of the world's largest economies vie for new sources of energy.

Some members of Congress warn that China and other countries could lock up oil supplies at a time when U.S. companies are barred from doing business with Cuba because of a 43-year-old trade embargo.

"We sit here watching China exploit a valuable energy resource within eyesight of the U.S. coast,'' said. Sen. Larry Craig, an Idaho Republican.

"I think the American public would be shocked - as this country is trying to reduce dependence on Middle East oil - that countries like China are realizing this energy resource.''

German Welfare

redmanrt Location: FL
Reply # 4
Date: Jul 27, 2008 - 6:22 AM EST
Follow the money.
They have been practically exempt from providing for their own defense for the last 50 years, allowing them to pump more and more money into their infrastructure
=============

In addition, the thousands of GIs stationed in Germany for the past 60 years have pumped many more billions into the German economy. The military lists 118 facilities with our military.

The Marshall Plan ended up at over $13 billion between 1948 and 1952, a sum equivalent to more than $65 billion today, but that is chicken feed compared to the money spent in the German economy by the Soldiers, the civilian personnel, the families who have joined their soldiers, and the millions of visitors who have visited with them.

We have spent a good deal of time in Germany, visiting my Sweetie’s relatives, and they consider it almost welfare.


Money & government
All we have to do is follow the money. The libs are controlled by liberal media, Sierra Club, Maldev, La Raza and all the liberal groups that supply them with money. Yet, they say that they are not tied to any "interest groups". Some of the people believe them out of ignorance, others follow them out of a chance to change the USA into a soviet type government. Any way, these is millions and millions of dollars going to the libs cannot be ignored, but, you know what, it's legal. Who made it legal? Why the libs in congress of course.

ModMark & Robert
“If liberals are to blame, why did the Bush's ban drilling off Florida?”

Nice try. Are you really going to try and make the case that conservatives are equally to blame for the restrictive drilling policies in this country because Bush Sr. bowed to pressure from the Left to ban offshore drilling? Do you think we’ve all been living in caves for the past 20 years, oblivious to who is behind the anti-oil agenda? Sorry, only liberals can be fooled in this manner.

“call themselves "ditto heads"...they are just listening going "ditto ditto ditto" in other words "tell me what to think"

No, “ditto” means “I agree.” It bothers the libs a great deal to know that so many people agree with Limbaugh. That’s too bad for them.

I'm a coventionalist...
Since shales are made from lithofied clays with other associated minerals like silicas carbornates & traces of micas, from a conventional geologic view, they were formed from clays that settled out in various depositional basins, then burried & lithofied over time by overburden pressures...

Many of these basins would of been located in nearshore shallow marine or tidal enviroments rich with algaes, plaktons, and other micro-paleontological sea life..

That is the conventional wisdom...

There are some, but very few petroleum geologist who do subscribe to Mr. Gold's theory...

I tend to be conventionalist...

Although Volcanoe's vent mrthane regularly which is the smallest and lightest member of the hydrocarbon chain which does give Gold's theory some plausibility...

Subject: I'm a coventionalist...
I'm a coventionalist...
Since shales are made from lithofied clays with other associated minerals like silicas carbornates & traces of micas, from a conventional geologic view, they were formed from clays that settled out in various depositional basins, then burried & lithofied over time by overburden pressures...

Many of these basins would of been located in nearshore shallow marine or tidal enviroments rich with algaes, plaktons, and other micro-paleontological sea life..

That is the conventional wisdom...

There are some, but very few petroleum geologist who do subscribe to Mr. Gold's theory...

I tend to be conventionalist...

Although Volcano's vent methane,CH4 regularly which is the smallest and lightest member/molecule of the hydrocarbon chain which does give Gold's theory some plausibility...

To ModMark
ModMark these Cuban Leases borde next to US Leases and Cuba with foreign assistance with it be China or another modern foreign nation with the technical knowledge and ability to drill drirectionally & horizontally could park their oofshore rigs on their side of the lease block line while tapping into some of OUR reserves there...

Why should can't we environmentally & safely drill our own resources there instead of allowing Cuba with foreign assistants to possibly take/steal them out from under us ? ? ?

THAT is why it is important to drill & produce our own there...

Thanks for the reply
An interesting subject, I think. I am not a scientist by training but, as an observer, I find Gold's idea more plausible especially considering the finds on some of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn. The idea that there would be enough biological material left that becomes compressed under sediment is mind boggling. I believe it simply becomes the sediment. Dust to dust. There has to be another explanation for petroleum and natural gas. Gold's theory is the best one I have heard.

To ModMark & CW
ModMark... No offense taken...
Agree that "Debate" is good & healthy...

Personally I do agree about Destin Dome since it IS in my back yard just 40+ miles away...

However, it will need to be aproached in such away that does NOT comprimise the militaery training missions in the area, since live missles & ordinance are used in that area all the time, being a danger to rigs, platforms & mostly personel not to mention the environment due to an explosive mishap...

That being said, I think a workable compromise can be had and, as we speak, being looked at by the military & local officials there...

CW, as far as how GOD placed or formed our oil & natural gas, has been a subject of debate, but none the less, God has blessed & given our great nation an abundance of natural resources and the ever growing knowledge to drill & produces & use them in wiser safer ways while being environmentally cautious & good stewards of the planet as well as to our fellow man as he has instructed us to be...

"Where God may close a door, he'll open a window..."

That is why I think with the vastness of 75+% off all offshore blocks being unexplored and the recent revilations that the Green River Shale may hold 3-4 times the oil of Saudi Arabia-120+ years worth, as wellas other areas like ANWR & the Bakken Oil shale, we as a nation with SMART conservation, newer non-food bio-fuels, along with solar/wind & nuclear CAN & should be energy independent & a major net energy exporter with in the next 10-15 years...

All of that will & can mean 200,000-400,000+ high paying American jobs & economic prosperity if only those blocking it for some political gain will step aside and allow it to happen...

Destin Dome should be drilled...
ModMark...

Destin Dome should be drilled...

It is an extention of the Mobile Bay area fields that are some of the largest of natural gas fields in the Gulf of Mexico...

And as environmentally safe as modern drilling has become, with natural gas wells there is an even lesser chance of any oil spill due to drilling because it is a natural gas well, not an oil well...

You are right to support drilling of Destin dome in my opinion as well as a lot of other people, I only brought up the fact that we can and have to be careful to be SMART about when, where and how we drill...

Like I said, the kinks of drilling in and around the Destin Doom area is being adressed and we a very fortunate to have a local Congressman in Jeff Miller of the 1st Congressional District of Florida who has and is working on both sides of the compromise with much local support to try and open up as much of the area in and around the Destin Dome area that is not in close proximity to the "live-fire" areas...

There is, however, a large minority of "NIMBYs", (Not in my back yard...) in the panhandle who are very vocal against any offshore drilling although they are still a minority of about 2 to 1 according to polls by local news organizations...

ModMark
writes, "It just too bad that the Islamic God blessed those in the ME with those massive oil fields."

If memory serves, that area was supposed to be the home of God's chosen people. Of course, he knew that the best laid plans can be mucked up by men and would have had a plan B, C, and probably even D. It is appearing to me that the natural resources of the planet are more evenly distributed than our current discoveries would lead us to believe. Green River shale?


Get government out of the way and cease and desist interfering in the decision making process and we will have plenty of low cost energy and alternatives would appear like magic whenever the cost of the current fuel increased enough. Oops, that would mean the planet would warm too much causing calamity, death, and destruction based on computer climate models with zero track record of accuracy. Oh well, it was a good thought.

Modmark - the silliness continues
ModMark: “So what you are saying, Bush Sr. is a wimp.”

I could care less what you call Bush Sr. or anyone else. It’s completely irrelevant. Do you think that by getting me to call Bush a wimp you can divert attention from the fact that the Left in this country have done everything in their power to increase our dependence on foreign sources for oil? We can argue all day but it will be easy to see where each side stands on this issue IF and when the democrat-controlled congress ever allows the issue of drilling to come to a vote.

“It is the Age of Energy. Instead, he started a war in Iraq.”

Nice as it is that a liberal like yourself has suddenly decided to take an interest in the energy needs of the country (congratulations on this baby step toward maturity), this comment reveals that you still have a long, long way to go. Are you saying that Bush should have ignored the possible threat posed by Saddam Hussein for the sake of oil? That’s pretty interesting. FYI, Bush has been focused on energy policy ever since he came to office but has hit a brick wall in the form of the Democratic Party at every turn. He said early on we need more refineries – democrats won’t allow it. We need more oil exploration – democrats won’t allow it. We need to expand nuclear energy programs – democrats won’t allow it. That’s libs in a nutshell for you: for years they stand in the way of developing good energy policy but when it becomes a ‘crisis’ what do they do? Blame Bush and republicans (sound familiar Mark?) because they have no conscience.

I’ll at least say this much for Bush: no matter how unpopular the war in Irag has become at least he never tried to put the blame on democrats. For better or for worse he took responsibility for his decisions. That’s something you rarely see a democrat do.

CW
Take it easy on wobbie there son. He does think on his own once and awhile to make predictions. Course their usually WRONG! Like Scamnesty. WRONG!! And like MS. President. WRONG AGAIN!! You see the direction his predictions take? It's pretty easy to see.( Are you kidding? A blind man could see it!!)

Modmark
I,for once have to agree with you. You are right,Clinton is pretty irrelevant.

This just in ...
... GE manipulates news coverage to fit its corporate agenda!

I can’t believe that so many people are still sucked in by the ancient myth that big government is the enemy of big business, and vice versa. The fact is, for well over 100 years the two have worked hand in glove.

It didn’t take long for the first titans of industry to figure out that they could use the iron fist of government to manipulate markets and cripple upstart competitors, all the while pretending to be put upon by regulators. Clearly, it’s a strategy that still works today.

Of course GE has a vested interest in crushing the oil industry – they’re not in it! More to the point, they’re in direct competition with it. If the maniac Algore could have his vision fulfilled, GE’s profits would go through the roof. Meanwhile, we average people, bearing the devastating costs of a carbonless energy supply, would be hanging out by the side of the road, waiting for one of those cr@ppy little electric cars to run over a raccoon, so we could have something for supper.

Oh yes – don’t forget that Mr. T. Boone Pickens has his own little selfish interest in maintaining this charade.

ge
Well, what do you expect? Their name isn't
General Natural Gas or General Petroleum.

GE and Fossil Fuels
GE is not independent of fossil fuels.

See their Gas Turbines -- where the feed is natural gas.

See their Steam Turbines -- running on steam generated by any source, including coal, natural gas, oil, geothermal, solar, and nuclear fission.

See their Gas Engines (up to 24 cylinders) -- running on natural gas and other fuels.

See their diesel-electric locomotives -- running on diesel fuel. They have a hybrid for these, too.

http://www.gepower.com/home/index.htm

They also build wind-powered generators.

-- Roger E. Sowell, SOB. Society of Oil Boilers


GE
As far as GE goes they are far more interested in corporate greed then in the welfare of the American people as evidenced by their continued business with Iran.

Al Gore is mainly interestined in beating his own drum. Both I suspect only want MONEY and POWER to use for self interests

GE Jet Engines
These run on jet fuel. A rather large part of GE's business. Highly dependent on petroleum.

GE's Infrastructure division is their largest revenue source at $58 billion in 2007. These products and services are almost entirely built around fossil fuels.

http://www.ge.com/ar2007/pdf/ge_ar2007_financials.pdf

-- Roger E. Sowell, SOB. Society of Oil Boilers


When the last CEO, Jack Welch, left
GE, with massive payments and perks, it was clear that GE was going to be a very bad investment. He took record payments in the hundreds of millions. The next one, Immelt will probably take billions. Which is one million times more than the avg employee at GE makes.

Since then, the stock has languished.

I sold all of my GE Stock.


Airline fuels will
be protected for the military and the politicians.

GE is betting on wind mills with GE drives, Nuke built by GE, etc, etc.

Alternative Energy Availability is Low
A recent article in the Wall St. Journal indicated that the availability of wind and solar power is less than 20%. These things just don't work very reliably yet. It means that, relative to fossil fuels, 4 to 5 times the MW capacity has to be constructed. To me, this is pie in the sky.

A quote from the NRDC?
The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) is the group that used a non-peer reviewed, very faulty 'scientific' study to declare that Alar, a chemical used to keep apples from prematurely falling off trees, to be dangerous to humans. This particular study administered Alar to mice at rates nearing the LD-50 dose. The LD-50 (Lethal Dose 50) is the dose that 50% of the mice are expected to die. In other words the study basically poisoned the mice and claimed that 'proved' danger to humans. The Natural Resources Defense Council put together a media campaign that featured, among other things, Meryl Streep wailing "What are we doing to our children?" This campaign scared enough Americans away from apples long enough to put several family apple farmers out of business. Full disclosure: Neither I nor anyone in my family have ever had any connection with the apple industry, except as consumers. The NRDC is a truly despicable organization that deserves nothing but scorn and condemnation.

What do we really know about Anwar?
Exploration for oil is both an art and a science. No one knows how much oil is really in a place such as Anwar. As far as it is reported no exploratory drilling has taken place. It is therefore speculation that oil in significant quantities are there in Anwar. On the other hand there are existing wells that are capped where there are known reserves but which for whatever reason are not being exploited by oil companies. Why have these wells not been developed? The answer is simple, to maximize corporate profits. Why is there are there no complaints from the conservative commentators on Townhall with regard to this issue?

There is no reason to believe that providing more domestic oil leases will result in lower gasoline prices for the consumer. Exxon Mobil solely owns over half of the oil it refines. Do you think it could lower the price of gas in the US if it wanted to? Of course it could. It doesn't make financial sense to do so. After all this company is not a charity.

I suggest that the development of more solar, wind and other alternative energy sources will be more likely to lower energy costs than drilling for oil in Anwar, especially in the short term. For those who believe that these new technologies are pie in the sky, I suggest you need to do a bit more homework. For example, take a look at the projects from Abengoa at http://www.abengoasolar.es/sites/solar/en/nproyectos_soluc ar.jsp

Or look at the sizable wind farms owned by GE wind and others. These wind farms have been operating from the early 1980s (see history of Zond Systems).

Don't be fooled by the "non-think" tanks and sock puppet commentators all tied to a conservative agenda, drilling and drilling. Follow the money and come to your own conclusions.

Larry
Low availability depends on location. The wind farm to be located offshore Corpus Christi has a very stable wind.

Solar power using CSP and hot oil storage provides power 24/7.

Wave power is the rising star. Wave energy is much more reliable than wind. The entire Pacific coast from central CA north is a good candidate. Serious waves out there.

see http://www.eere.doe.gov for details.

-- Roger E. Sowell, SOB. Society of Oil Boilers.

The roaring 20's....screech - crash!!!!
READ MY SIPS!!!!!! WE DO NOT NEED TO DRILL MORE!!!!! There are alternate fuel options in place already, i.e. LPG, gas, hydrogen fuel cell, electric motors and lithium batteries, etc. The technology and conversion to any of these alternatives for power to vehicles are here and being sold either here in this country to municipality vehicle fleets or in Canada which has been using alternate fuels for years. Our governing bodies have blocked use for the masses by refusing to pass laws that would allow the same equipment available to be used on everyone’s cars and trucks, i.e. LPG or natural gas. The only conversion that law will allow is for the conversion hardware to be installed on an identical vehicle, even if you would use the same identical equipment. The present laws say that a different vehicle has to have a certification even if it uses the same apparatus. Most companies are not willing to pay the expense for this without having some return. This is an easier swifter fix for the masses beyond DRILLING!!!!! To tell you the truth, I’ve been drilled enough with these high oil prices!!! If the government wants to boost the economy and support private businesses, them give me my High Definition TV allowance with a working tax break and I’ll take care of at least one American citizen in a way that will benefit the masses rather than all those who continue to have. Or better yet, let me at least purchase one of those air cars from India, Germany or France. We won’t need another GM (Great Money), or Chrysler (Crys less) or Ford (For ‘De or me). These are just my thoughts. Feel free to comment or email me.


Hello, Roger Sowell
My statement concerning availability was meant to address not only resource availability (wind, sun, waves), but total availability, including reliability. The technology (especially structural integrity) surrounding these new technologies is much less proven than traditional power generation technologies. This issue will be even more significant for relatively unproven wave energy systems.

Laurence F. Wagner, PhD, PE

to Calvin T...

You say DON'T DRILL...

It aint just about gas, & fuel here Calvin...

WELL, if we do NOT drill,
That will mean the following...

1. higher skyrocketing prices on plastics,
(it comes from Petroleum & petro-chemicals)

2. dwindling crps & higher prices on FOOD,
(since most agrigo-chemicals & herbicides are petroleum & petrochemically based)

3. More dease, death, famine,
(since most pesticides & insecticides come frpm petroleum & petrochemicals)

4. even more death,
(since a large amount of todays pharmicuedicals, surgicals & medicines are petroleum based or have petroleum & petro-chemicals used in the production of them)

5.then there are lubricants, paints, solvents, vynils, polyesters, synthetic rubbers, polymers, resins, styrenes, not to mention most modern petrochemically based substances would either not exist or be extremely expensive IF we think we are NOT going to drill...

WE MUST DRILL...

Or the world WILL suffer as a result if we DON'T...

To Calvin T...
You say DON'T DRILL...

It aint just about gas, & fuel here Calvin...

WELL, if we do NOT drill,
That will mean the following...

1. higher skyrocketing prices on plastics,
(it comes from Petroleum & petro-chemicals)

2. dwindling crops & higher prices on FOOD,
(since most agrigo-chemicals & herbicides are petroleum & petrochemically based)

3. More dease, death, famine,
(since most pesticides & insecticides come from petroleum & petrochemicals)

4. even more death,
(since a large amount of todays pharmicuedicals, surgicals & medicines are petroleum based or have petroleum & petro-chemicals used in the production of them)

5.then there are lubricants, paints, solvents, vynils, polyesters, synthetic rubbers, polymers, resins, styrenes, not to mention most modern petrochemically based substances that would either not exist or be extremely expensive IF we think we are NOT going to drill...

WE MUST DRILL...

Or the world WILL suffer much more human sickness, starvation & death as a result if we DON'T...

SamT-The roaring 20's..screech-crash!!
Sam, If we drill in the presence of other alternatives, the oil market will not dictate the cost of living. If Congress passed laws for the masses for alternative fuels competition would drive down the cost of all. Oil has spurred a good bit of our economy and could probably be supported by what we produce now within. The oil we use for fuel comes mostly from the Middle East. The amount we recover here will not even come close to replacing our gluttonous appetites for mobility. We need to go on a diet as well as drill some more. But, drilling is not the whole-listic answer to our problems. We're being dooped, conned and controlled into thinking that our oil producers are the only ones who can keep us independent. Remember words like buoycott. Germany was able to do without oil during WWII. It takes ingenuity, creativity and just plain perserverance. We need other solutions to be made available and possible for the American peoples' use. Then let them choose. But don't fill them with deceptions and hopelessness without at least providing them other means of hope...which may I add are realities today. http://www.evporsche.com/
http://www.biofuelbasics.com/
http://www.hlineconversion.com/index.php
http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=36

It's time to wake up and stop smelling the gas fumes!!!!


Subject: Nuclear is OK, BUT WE MUST DRIL
Subject: Nuclear is OK, BUT WE MUST DRILL
We need to do nuclear...
We can also do Solar/Wind
We should do non-food bio-fuels..
We can do & should also expand clean-coal as well...

DO THEM ALL BUT DON'T BLOCK DRILLING IF WE ARE TO HAVE A COMPLETE "WHOLELISTIC" ENERGY APROACH.

All of these will take time to make us energy independent but so will drilling too

WE NEED TO EXPAND IN ALL OF THESE AREAS OF ENERGY...

BUT NOT TO DRILL IS NOT AN ANSWER EITHER...


To those that say DON'T DRILL...

It aint just about gas, & fuel here you know...

WELL NOW, if we do NOT drill,
That will mean the following...

1. higher skyrocketing prices on plastics,
(it comes from Petroleum & petro-chemicals)....

2. dwindling crops & higher prices on FOOD,
(since most agrico-chemicals & herbicides are petroleum & petrochemically based)....

3. More dease, death, famine,
(since most pesticides & insecticides come from petroleum & petrochemicals)....

4. even more death,
(since a large amount of todays pharmicuedicals, surgicals & medicines are petroleum based or have petroleum & petro-chemicals used in the production of them)....

5.then there are lubricants, paints, solvents, vynils, polyesters, synthetic rubbers, polymers, resins, styrenes, not to mention most modern petrochemically based substances that would either not exist or be extremely expensive IF we think we are NOT going to drill...

WE MUST DRILL...

Or the whole world, (not just the USA), WILL suffer severe ill economicresults along with much more human sickness, starvation & death as a result if we DON'T...

THINK ABOUT IT...

To Calvin T...
CALVIN...

The following are oil/gas shale exploration areas that have really started to heat up and HELP to elevate future energy woes.

1. the Bakken Oil Shale of Dakotas & Montana estimated 80-400 Billion barrels of oil

2. Barnett & Woodford Shales of Texas & Oklahoma with 30-300 TRILLION cu ft of gas

3. Lewis & Mancos of New Mexico & Colorado estimated 90 TRILLION cu ft gas reserves

4. New Albany of the Illinois & Ohio basin estimated 80-160 TRILLION cu ft gas reserves

5. Antrim formation of northern Michigan estimated 35-75 TRILLION cu ft reserves

6. Devonian/Ohio of western Appalachian states is estimated 225-250 trillion cu ft gas Other areas now starting to see new drilling and are of yet unknown but possibly even greater potentials are the Haynesville Shale formation of north west Louisiana & north east Texas, & the Tuscaloosa Marine Shale of south Mississippi, & south east Louisiana which has been estimated to have 10-50 BILLION recoverable barrels potential.

The biggest & most prolific is the Green River Shale of Utah, Colorado & Wyoming which although is currently 80%+ restricted by government (Congress), from exploration may contain 800 BILLION-1.2 TRILLION recoverable barrels oil, 3-4 times Saudi Arabia’s reserves, equaling 120 yrs of reserves by itself. Currently 3/4 of offshore lease block areas BANNED by Congress from exploration with potentially 20-??? BILLION barrels oil. Of 19 Million acres of ANWR, currently BANNED by Congress, only 2500-4500 acres needed to drill there which is 0.02% of land there leaving 99.98% UNTOUCHED. ANWR would be quickest easiest short term to produce geologically & economically.

To Sam T
I'm with you. I just want other alternatives to be available and not stonewalled (which is what is happening today) because of greed, and the desire for power and control. Business here want to so control the flow of capitalism that it restricts free commerce and directs those without power and resources as to what they should be doing. I will never have a jet, or a Maserati or anything that burns a lot of petro. But if I have something economical to drive to work each day, I may be able to enjoy my lifestyle. Those that want more extravagent lifestyles and should choose petro power are fine to do that. Others should be allowed to choose as well.
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