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Tuesday, November 03, 2009
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The "Costs" of Medical Care
by Thomas Sowell
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We are incessantly being told that the cost of medical care is "too high"-- either absolutely or as a growing percentage of our incomes. But nothing that is being proposed by the government is likely to lower those costs, and much that is being proposed is almost certain to increase the costs.

Arguing
with Idiots By Glenn Beck

There is a fundamental difference between reducing costs and simply shifting costs around, like a pea in a shell game at a carnival. Costs are not reduced simply because you pay less at a doctor's office and more in taxes-- or more in insurance premiums, or more in higher prices for other goods and services that you buy, because the government has put the costs on businesses that pass those costs on to you.

Costs are not reduced simply because you don't pay them. It would undoubtedly be cheaper for me to do without the medications that keep me alive and more vigorous in my old age than people of a similar age were in generations past.

Letting old people die would undoubtedly be cheaper than keeping them alive-- but that does not mean that the costs have gone down. It just means that we refuse to pay the costs. Instead, we pay the consequences. There is no free lunch.

Providing free lunches to people who go to hospital emergency rooms is one of the reasons for the current high costs of medical care for others. Politicians mandating what insurance companies must cover is another free lunch that leads to higher premiums for medical insurance-- and fewer people who can afford it.

Despite all the demonizing of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies or doctors for what they charge, the fundamental costs of goods and services are the costs of producing them.

If highly paid chief executives of insurance companies or pharmaceutical companies agreed to work free of charge, it would make very little difference in the cost of insurance or medications. If doctors' incomes were cut in half, that would not lower the cost of producing doctors through years of expensive training in medical schools and hospitals, nor the overhead costs of running doctors' offices.

What it would do is reduce the number of very able people who are willing to take on the high costs of a medical education when the return on that investment is greatly reduced and the aggravations of dealing with government bureaucrats are added to the burdens of the work.

Britain has had a government-run medical system for more than half a century and it has to import doctors, including some from Third World countries where the medical training may not be the best. In short, reducing doctors' income is not reducing the cost of medical care, it is refusing to pay those costs. Like other ways of refusing to pay costs, it has consequences.

Any one of us can reduce medical costs by refusing to pay them. In our own lives, we recognize the consequences. But when someone with a gift for rhetoric tells us that the government can reduce the costs without consequences, we are ready to believe in such political miracles.

There are some ways in which the real costs of medical care can be reduced but the people who are leading the charge for a government takeover of medical care are not the least bit interested in actually reducing those costs, as distinguished from shifting the costs around or just refusing to pay them.

The high costs of "defensive medicine"-- expensive tests, medications and procedures required to protect doctors and hospitals from ruinous lawsuits, rather than to help the patients-- could be reduced by not letting lawyers get away with filing frivolous lawsuits.

If a court of law determines that the claims made in such lawsuits are bogus, then those who filed those claims could be forced to reimburse those who have been sued for all their expenses, including their attorneys' fees and the lost time of people who have other things to do. But politicians who get huge campaign contributions from lawyers are not about to pass laws to do this.

Why should they, when it is so much easier just to start a political stampede with fiery rhetoric and glittering promises?

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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to egb1
You think those who are willing to sacrifice to afford health insurance wouldn't like lower costs? The thing is, there are better ways of achieving that then letting the government (who couldn't save money if their lives depended on it) take over.

Like allowing trade across state lines (like congress is supposed to ensure). Putting a cap on malpractice suits. That would lower malpractice insurance costs, which would decrease doctors' and hospitals' overhead allowing them to charge less for routine procedures.

There are worlds of ways to lower health care costs. They just don't include socialism.

egb1 reply 5
People with "insurance" don't have any skin in the game. There is no motivation to seek lower prices.

This statement ignores co-payment and/or policy deductibles. I have a neurological condition that can only be seen by MRI. I have convinced my Neurosurgeon to avoid the last 3 MRI "reshoots", relying on the original shoot. Even with my retiree/disabled "cadillac" plan each of the three deferred shots would have cost me about $1200 apiece.

We need more MRI's not less. Lower the costs of preventative medicine. If MRI's are not in themselves dangerous, shouldn't every doctor's office have one?

I am unaware of any preventative medical applications by MRI. Their very name implies use as diagnostic by design. All MRI clinics have on their staff MDs trained to review and diagnose from the results. I'd rather have a "full time" Neurosurgeon vice a part time MRI reader.

America has too few doctors (2.4/1000). We need more. Build more medical schools, make the cost of medical education cheaper.

True, true, and wait a minute. Until public schools return to teaching real science (instead of apocalyptical fantasies), math, etc. any new schools would be filled with students who lack the vigor and scholastic skills needed to excel at medicine. Further, free schooling will likely have Federal strings attached.

Ideas that have not shown up in any plans I have seen from our elected representatives. These ideas might actually drive costs AND prices down.

What a wonder.

The debate is not about controlling costs, it is a ruthless power grab, nothing less.

The payoff
Hear, hear!

As evidence that you get what you pay for: absent gunshot and car crash fatalities, the US is #1 in lifespan, world-wide, and has been for some time.

regulated competition means none
Why don't you see sales and specials for routine medical services or insurance like in retail, like target and wal-mart? Government already sets the prices. If I decide that I want a bigger share of a given procedure, why doesn't it make sense for me to offer some special rate for a limited time? This would be a great way for a new doc to introduce himself to a community and get a reputation as someone who doesn't worship the dollar the way some of his older and more established colleagues do. This is because medicare sets the prices. If I lower my rates to gain market share or for any other reason,for that matter, medicare sets that rate permanently and won't allow you to raise it again. Also, because there is no real competition between insurance companies b/c they can't freely compete across state lines they have no incentive to respond to such marketing devices and pass any savings along to the consumer. They too will take the cut and make it permanent. That is why the prices keep going up and never down.

Healthcare Cost
Mirrors and Smoke!!! Trademark method of the libs!!!


Steve,
Sarasota, Fl

Delusion of Free Healthcare
If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it's free. The left offers the happy delusion that everything can be free. A free market forces us to face reality, and optimizes the production of services and goods through competition. The Democrats don't seem to understand the meaning of the word competition - they use it to mean the opposite, as in "a public option would provide some competition for private insurance." The only way to stop this abomination is to make it absolutely clear to our representatives that THEY WILL BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE IF THEY SUPPORT IT. There is a website where you can pledge to vote against politicians supporting the bill. Representatives will then be informed of how many votes they are losing. It is called http://www.PledgeOfLiberty.com


That's Entertainment
whole helluvalotta fine posts here! wry wit of the week award goes to Ted: Nov 3, 2009 - 9:05 AM EST (praphrasing)

"...can't turn a profit on hookers and hooch"

priceless.

who said nothin's free?

What's On TV At The WH?


NBC's "The Biggest Loser" is at the White House tonight. This is not a joke.

about 2 hours ago from web
jaketapper
Jake Tapper

A Sign Of The New World Order?
ROME (Reuters) – The European Court of Human Rights ruled on Tuesday that crucifixes should be removed from Italian classrooms, prompting Vatican anger and sparking uproar in Italy, where such icons are embedded in the national psyche.

"The ruling of the European court was received in the Vatican with shock and sadness," said Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi, adding that it was "wrong and myopic" to try to exclude a symbol of charity from education.

The ruling by the court in Strasbourg, which Italy said it would appeal, said crucifixes on school walls -- a common sight that is part of every Italian's life -- could disturb children who were not Christians.

Italy has been in the throes of national debate on how to deal with a growing population of immigrants, mostly Muslims, and the court sentence is likely to become another battle cry for the center-right government's policy to restrict newcomers.

"This is an abhorrent ruling," said Rocco Buttiglione, a former culture minister who helped write papal encyclicals.

"It must be rejected with firmness. Italy has its culture, its traditions and its history. Those who come among us must understand and accept this culture and this history," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091103/wl_nm/us_italy_court_cr ucifix

Voodoo Medical Economics ie. Obamacare
I am disgusted already with governments interfering in my health care costs. I am sick to think what will happen if this bill is shoved down our throats. My husband and I are retired. When he retired, we started paying the half of our health insurance cost that his employer paid while he was working. That raised our cost to $165.00 a month. It is excellent insurance. Then, when he reached 65 we started getting notices that our medical bills were not being paid because we were not a part of Medicare B. We did not know that we HAD to BUY medicaid B, whether we needed or wanted it. The result was we were actually fined for not signing up for it, we acquired a debt for these bills that our regular insurance couldn't pay because of Fed. regulations AND we now have to pay an additional $200 a month for Medicare B more than doubling our health insurance costs from $165.00 to $365 a month. For what?! We do not need or want this, we do not have medical expenses for the most part that require us paying out even $365.00 a year let alone a month. What a rip off! At least now, we can get whatever care we might need or want. That won't be the case if Obamanation Care is forced on us.

Another cost of Obamacare...
as I've been told by several clerks/cashiers at different retail stores is that several now generic pain relievers; with varying dosage based upon the same active ingredients in Tylenol, or Aleve, or Medipren, etc. will be made presription only, the criteria for this change will be that the specific product is marginally effective as a pain reliever. The price will be increased.

jim#1
Fair enough. That would explain a lot. Thanks for the comeback.

I worked for a non-profit


Bad Albino Bob Location: AZ
Reply # 2
Date: Nov 3, 2009 - 9:17 PM EST
Since the current rate is 15.2% and has been that high for some years, you must have worked very little a long, long time ago.
========

Well for a while (50 - 60 years ago) I worked for a non-profit (RAND Corp), and they could not then collect Soc Sec.

Many years we traveled, while our income was from RE investments, no Soc Sec possible.

I just followed the rules in place.

Two Fundamental Truths
If you want to reduce costs, then increase the supply of whatever it is that is, be it oil, energy, insurance or physicians. Either that, or increase competition. (This is a fundamental truth that should be taught to children in school.)

Obamacare does neither.

It would take a miracle, but perhaps this whole healthcare debacle will bring the rape of productivity brought upon our society by lawyers.


jim#1
"My Sweetie and I paid in nearly $10,000, and while Sweetie has had a new *job these past four years, together we have only collected $250,000." Really? Since the current rate is 15.2% and has been that high for some years, you must have worked very little a long, long time ago. Today, people are paying in who will probably never see a dime. For example, my father paid in heavily for his entire life and we collected $242 when he died. Glad it's working out for you, though.

Lefties Are All About Race Based Thought
Left Angle offers, "on a interview on faux news yesterday rush limbaugh called Prez Obama practically every name except a n**ger which i think he really wanted to say..."

Spoken like a true racist. You probably voted on race. My guess is that you think everyone votes on race, like you.

Sad.

Great Mind
Thomas Sowell is one man who is connected to reality.
What a mind!

Soc Sec is terrible

Soc Sec is terrible

Yes I know that Soc Sec is terrible.

My Sweetie and I paid in nearly $10,000, and while Sweetie has had a new *job these past four years, together we have only collected $250,000.

*Now the Angels have a role model.

William
"Using Federal funds for abortions except as provided by law when funded by Medicaid and for 3 only reasons is against the law. No reform proposal includes a word that contradicts current law." Not so. Since federal funds must be used to supplement private insurance under the law, all taxpayers will be subsidizing insurance programs that may provide abortion on demand. Just the other day you were telling people that they were already paying for abortions and that the bill would require more of the same. So tax dollars will indeed be used for abortion on demand under the proposed system. You are wrong again.

William

You are wrong, again.

Diane of California. Using Federal
funds for abortions except as provided by law when funded by Medicaid and for 3 only reasons is against the law. No reform proposal includes a word that contradicts current law.

Do not give up your integrity so easily, Diane.

USMC_RET

:-)

I am aberrant
In today's political and idealogical divisions, I have no direct affiliations. I claim the label of "centrist libertarian" because that, to me, is the most accurate description.
Many, however have labeled me "liberal" until the discussions get deep - then they realize I support the sort of thinking shown in this article.
We are responsible to ourselves, first and foremost. Without that, we have little to offer family, or community. We are responsible and obligated to recognize and accept the liberties we expect for ourselves, in others - regardless of ideological differences.
We are NOT responsible, nor obligated to fulfill the dictates of others, nor are we obligated to fulfill the desires of others - though we may CHOOSE to do so.
Everything Mr.Sowell states in the article are things I have stated for years (except the specifics of the health issue). I would add - about lawyers - that a great many politicians are/were lawyers and they watch out for their own.

In all things, there is a choice ; but for each choice, a price. Responsible people recognize this.

VIVA
^ 5

LMAO

USMC_RET

William is a modern, scientific miracle. He is a semi-functioning abortion.

45 caliber
lefties don't worry me in the least.

With their aversion to guns and defending themselves who thinks the left represents a physical threat to anyone.

But as we have seen, black parasites have resorted to urban violence in numerous cities over the years, with the net result they end up the losers.

But if the messiah destroys the economy the possibility exists that the parasites will try and take by force what the govt can no longer give them.

Many americans are getting prepared to defend themselves just in case.

There will be many like leftist dangle who will look very funny with a strange look on their face after they have succumbed to a case of terminal lead poisoning

WILLIAM (TH TROLL)
Were you born this stupid or does the stupidity just kick in when you log onto the internet?

Unspoken issue
I tried to go through most of the comments late in the day; read a lot of fine responses, and some sad ones, but never saw any mention of the unspoken issue--ABORTION. The Baucus bill has cleared the House and it provides massive federal subsidies directly to pay for elective abortions. This bill uses 6-billion tax dollars to set up health insurance co-ops and provides absolutely zero limits on how much can be used to pay for abortions. It also allows the government to determine that abortion is a "mandated benefit" as part of a minimum benefit package.

I know the left-liberals are pro-abortion and now, the "green extreme" are talking about solving the carbon emission "problem" through family planning--which by their definition includes abortion. The London School of Economics & Political Science commissioned a study entitled "Fewer Emmitters, Lower Emissions, Less Cost."

Carried to the extreme of zero replacement of the population, there will be no one left to pay taxes, and no government to pay taxes to! So. America could carry out a bloodless coup.

This may elicit some cheers from the left, but a chilling effect should descend on the rest of us.

I appreciate Dr. Sowell's logic and clear thinking and hope that during this dark time more will wake up and learn to not just accept things at face value, but
really search out the facts, it might stimulate their little gray cells in the process.

William and Lefty
William: I've been reading it off and on all day. Basically it is Obamacare with another thousand pages by Pelousy and company adding even more taxes to it. And if it only had half the problems that Obamacare did, it is still more than I'd want in any bill! But you get what you pay for. I'll pay my own insurance, thank you, at least as long as it lasts. Which probably won't be long.

Lefty: "army indoctrination" is brainwashing? Again, a leftist idea that has no meaning. Now I might admit it about the Marines even though I do respect them. But truthfully, I have very little respect for leftists in the first place and none for the left group. You all have a tendency to place imaginary things on what you don't understand and can't take any facts to change your minds. That's called insanity but you wouldn't believe that either.

Got to run, everyone. Have fun.

Left Angle
"on a interview on faux news yesterday rush limbaugh called Prez Obama practically every name except a n**ger which i think he really wanted to say...

Oh and it's ok for white liberals to call black conservatives "Oreo" or "Uncle Tom"? I'll bet if you had the chance (while no conservative is around) you wouldn't hesitate use the N word against prominent black conservatives like Walter Williams or Thomas Sowell. cmon admit it...your nothing but a hypocrit.

Left Angle

I doubt it. I carry. Wanna see? I would love to get the opportunity to pop one of you losers.

Lefty and William
Lefty: You liberals always insist you are the smart ones for NOT joining. Considering how the libs tend to screw up every war, you may be right. But in a fight? Sorry, you lose.

William: I did say parts of the program were going into affect immediately: taxes. I thought you understood that part. Perhaps I didn't use small enough words. Sorry.

William

You are right. Part of ObamaCare would commence immediately: The tax part. Everything else will not begin until 2013 with some parts going operational in 2019. Many Democrats see that Americans are going to be really p1ssed if their taxes go up and their insurance premiums nearly triple, but there is no benefit. Of course, that is assuming there will ever be a benefit. So, the Democrats are trying to find a way to give some cookies out before next year's election, but they can't agree on what to do.

You evidently have not read all 1990 pages. I have.

alphonse jones, Doubtful
alph: From what I've seen over the last 60 years or so, they not only run in groups they are terrified of anyone else with a gun. So I wouldn't be too worried. They only get brave when you are unarmed and outnumbered.

Doubtful: I agree. Palin has my money on her in a down and dirty. In fact, I think she could take on Michelle at the same time.

Left Angle
which party is known as the party of "NO?
Actually both..The Republicans and Democrats

"which party is the one which not a single member in the house voted for the stimulus package

The Republicans of course. BTW hows that working out? Actually the stimulus package was just good for the short term. The only thing it did was was put a bandaid over a bullet wound. It did nothing to stimulate the economy in the long term.

which party only 1 member voted for the healhtcare bill coming out of senate committee?

Well that one person votes on your side more than half the time anyway so that really doesn't count

Ok my turn
Which party ran up a debt more than 3 times the previous admistration and that our grandkids will end up paying for?

Which party wants to control 1/6 of the economy and run it into the ground as they have everything else they've tried to run?

which party wants to tax businesses and individuals to death under the false premise of "climate change"?











45 caliber
brainwashing is a part of basic training. It's called military indoctrination. the smart ones dont go for that bs..they are there because they need a job.

viva:

you'd probably get p**p slapped...

Doubtful:
I'm the first in my family with a college degree; about the sixth with a high school degree. But there aren't any real jobs up there. My wife is a city girl; 612 people in her town when she was growing up. (They also had to count the chickens and the dogs to get the number high enough to put in sidewalks. It took forty years before they finally went over that number.) We have a place about an hour and a half drive from the nearest town and plan to move there when things get really rough. Between gardening and hunting, we can live all right. And if the brownshirts (purple shirts?) show up, all we have to do is step out the back and hide for a few hours. No way those city boys could find anyone.

leftist angle
but we already know the typoical modus operen di of black thugs.

They travel in a posse, more akin to a pack of wild dogs and look for victims who can't defend themselves.

You never hear of typical blacks taking on people of size, but always attack white women or elderly folks.

So remind us leftist angle do you carry your 32 saturday night special when you go trolling for victims.

But I would advise you not to visit ariz. Here it is lawful to carry guns in public and we already know punks like you won't confront anyone carrying a 9mm or a .40 caliber pistol holding multiple rounds

As for the messiah defending himself, he defensive action would be to soil himself and then drop to his knees to either beg for mercy or offer to provide a monica.

And as we know the only place he has shown any propensity to exert himself is playing basketball, or engaging as a homo in the back seat of a limo

45
Actually, if he puts the gulags up there, we would have an 80% chance of the population assisting our escape.
And Alaska is a beautiful place, just takes some grit to live there year round.
Which is why I think Sarah Palin would win that street fight with Obama that LA is trying to set up. Compared to her, he is prissy.

45Cal. in Texas. You are one of a
very few who have not read the bill (or paid much attention to those who have told the truth about it) if you think that parts do not go into effect immediately upon passage.

I believe you could understand the concept of spooling up the numbers of medical professionals over time; of collecting together the representatives of providers and insurers and government offices in order to begin to work out what will serve the people and still provide a profit, etc.

In other words, parts can be done now; other parts take time. Don't roll over so easy.

Lefty:
It is obvious that you don't know much about the military. Why do you think the Democrats aren't willing to make it easier for the soldiers vote while overseas?

Most soldiers are conservative. Call the next Marine or Army soldier "yellow" and see what happens. Most of them don't even care if you have friends with you. They are known as the best soldiers in the world for good reason.

Oh, and also ask yourself why 1 of 8 soldiers are from Texas.

45
Heck, might have known. I'm an Arkansas hillbilly, transplanted, too.
But I can shoot a .45 about as well as anyone (2X Chief's 50 back in the 80's)

its the same thing with rush limbaugh
on a interview on faux news yesterday rush limbaugh called Prez Obama practically every name except a n**ger which i think he really wanted to say...

Once again I think he has a yellow streak like most male repubs/cons..he would NEVER say those things to Prez Obama's face..NEVER..LOL

Left Angle

I am a woman and I would call Obama a phucking piece of merde to his face.

Hey 45
Some lawyers can fight - I can vouch for that. And 1/2 the lawyers (give or take) are good guys, defending the cases brought by the slimy ones. Next time you get sued, get a teacher or a politician to defend you! :)
Next time you get challenged to a street fight, I've got your back.

Doubtful:
It isn't the rationing that worries me; it's the gulags in Alaska. I don't mind living off the land (I am an Arkansa hillbilly and grew up that way) but it is cold up there in the winter. I never learned to snowshoe or ice skate.

No its the color of male repubs/cons

it isnt mostly white it is mostly YELLOW!!!

I doubt they would call any MAN "prissy" to his face..

LMAO

BAB
It is not all that unique an experience. Nationally, the number of black on white assaults is more than 10X the reverse. In New Orleans, where I live, it is even higher. Not sure what Lost Angle thought he was talking about, but the ability to street fight is not unique to any culture. Crime, however, seems to be much more prevalent in some than others.
I bet it's because some cultures have more "victims", who are not responsible for living by the rules of civilized society. Like Chicago.

Lefty:
"if you and prez obama were to ever meet and you called him "prissy" to his face my money is on him to introduce you to a very unique BLACK experience."

Actually, you'd lose your money. In the first place, he's actually small and skinny. In the second place, he's never had to fight for anything. And in the third, from personaly experience, if he is like any others of his people, he wouldn't consider taking on anyone one-to-one. He'd want to have a dozen others attack you while he watched. And finally, he's a lawyer. Lawyers sue, not fight.

And I don't consider that a black experience.

Left Angle

I dare one of your pr1cks to lay a finger on me. The color that he or she will see will not be black. It will be red.

45 Caliber
The link to the WSJ article
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB100014240527487033992 04574505423751140690
Of course, the Journal is biased, supporting as it does such neanderthal things as markets, wealth, reduced taxes, individual liberty, etc.
Interesting quote from medvedev:
President Dmitry Medvedev published a videoblog in which he condemned Joseph Stalin's crimes and called on the nation not to forget about past political repression or its victims. Medvedev called Stalin's repression "one of the greatest tragedies in Russian history" and expressed concern that "even today it can be heard that these mass victims were justified by certain higher goals of the state." He said that "no development of a country, none of its successes or ambitions can be reached at the price of human losses and grief."
I don't understand why you aren't perfectly willing to be rationed to death, if it helps all the indolent get government healthcare?

Boy, William, are you a FOOL!!!
First, your own insurance is going to go up to include all the additions to it that the new program will include. Then you will be paying the taxes on top of that. And the taxes on the taxes. And the fees. And don't leave out the taxes! If you can't afford to pay for your family, you certainly won't after the taxes are taken out. Particularly since this program isn't scheduled to go into affect until after the next Presidential election. After all, your hero wants to insure that no one really realizes just what a mess this whole thing is until he gets a chance to be reelected. He knows he wouldn't be reelected if everyone did know.

Actually I think he and some of his buddies in Congress (like Nancy) are shafting many of their people in the back. Those people won't be able to be reelected and there is a good chance the Democrats will lose control of Congress and the Presidency for decades. But perhaps they know something the rest of us aren't expecting yet. You never know. After all, Hitler did a good job of retaining control once his brownshirts were on the scene. You don't suppose some of those in Washington would think of doing the same thing, do you? Nah. You and your friends never think that far ahead, do you?


Oooh! Lefties Threatening Violence!
"if you and prez obama were to ever meet and you called him "prissy" to his face my money is on him to introduce you to a very unique BLACK experience." So you admit that Obama is a thin skinned little Chicago thug who responds violently to criticism. Thanks for your information. And by Black experience, you are obviously referring to a Black man attacking a white guy. Way to set race relations back a few years, homie.

responses
sheepdog:

which party is know as the party of NO? which party is the one which not a single member in the house voted for the stimulus package..which party only 1 member voted for the healhtcare bill coming out of senate committee?

beowolfe:

#207 is a classic and a hoot..the lefties are getting a real kick out of it..keep up the good work!!!

retired geek:

what is a kegger?

georgetwin:

if you and prez obama were to ever meet and you called him "prissy" to his face my money is on him to introduce you to a very unique BLACK experience.

Q: How do you know
that the current health "deform" proposals will not be a good deal for most Americans?

A: Because the members of Congress are excluding themselves from the plan.

Please, any liberals out there, please rebut this position.

William
I'm proud of what I have accomplished and I use my professional experience and education to back up what I say. If I don't know about something (which is often), I don't say anything or I ask questions. You call that preening. I call it reality. You, on the other hand, make up superficially clever nonsense out of thin air and never back it up with anything. Many people do exactly the same as I do, and I appreciate someone telling me something on the basis of their expertise, their experience, or their education. This of course threatens you because you have never shown any sign of any of the above. As John Wesley said to a critic, "I accept humbly that God has no need of my learning. I must also say that he has no need of your ignorance."

Why don't we see which is the most convincing and the most based in concrete reality?

Do I look like I'm standing on a pedestal? Then stop standing in the hole you've dug for yourself and stop exhibiting your obvious envy and hatred of me.

RGeek
LA and the Prissy Poltroon are connected through the number 48. 1 has it as his age and 1 has it as his IQ.

William

In 1965, the projected expenditure for Medicare in 1990 was $9 billion. It turned out to be $67 billion. Even the projections for 1965 were wrong. The first year was only supposed to cost $250 million. It actually cost $1 billion.

Ken, the scary part is...
...that our Lord and Savior has already told us how he intends to reduce the cost of health care. Dr. Sowell already brought it up. Obama simply won't pay for health care.

His own advisors have already openly stated that he will simple let certain people die. Here is Obama advisor Robert Reich speaking to Berkeley students (who, incidently are CHEERING) and flat out saying that they're going to just let old people die:

http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2009/10/obama-advisor-to-e lderly-were-going-to.html

William

You have already admitted to being three score and ten plus some change. Your "insurance" is Medicare, which will be cut.

Obama the only thing Left Angle has

Left Angle needed someone to believe in because he knows that he is a failure.

Left Angle chose Barack Obama to represent his hope and trusts that Barack Obama is someone he can live through vicariously.

Anyone who casts any doubts about Barack Obama is casting doubts on the only thing Left Angle has to live for in this life.


Rev
"An absolute majority of responsible citizens believe that a Government Option in Health Care is required."

According to what poll? Please cite.

"WHEN, (not if) the Government Option is signed into Law by the President of the United States of America, Health Care Cost will PLUNG DRASTICALLY."

You personally guarantee it, eh? Can we sue you if you're wrong? Better yet, can we sue President Obama and all the meatheads in Congress who vote for this idiocy?

DSMichael in AZ. What a wonderful
set of questions you have posed. As it happens I am one of about 55 million people who have insurance and will not be affected by HR3200 as amended currently. Or as it may appear after reconciliation in committee with senators.

And if you are one with health insurance, you will not be affected either. But if you can only afford to insure yourself now, you will be able to buy health insurance for the others in your family.

And if you have health insurance now, you are paying a hidden tax in that premium to support hospitals and health providers who provide "free" care for the uninsured.

I believe even a conservative must appreciate the fact that taxation will be more transparent. And by the way all care is voluntary; free choice; no mandate.

Sinister Angle admits being a brownshirt
"btw: I have copied your post and i am sending in on to other lib/dem websites for reveiw..."

I'd post my address here too, but I worry that the families of all the America-hating punks I'd have to defend myself against would attempt to use such a posting in any "wrongful death" civil actions.

As for "losing my mind", why don't you talk to the hundreds of millions of Africans you pukes murdered because of you policies to "help" them. Oh, wait, you can't....because you killed them off.

Along that lines, I just saw something rather amusing, if not sad. There's been a building under construction not far from my house. Well, they just put a sign out front that reads in part:

"COMING SOON! Planned Parenthood! Bigger and better than ever!"

Now I didn't walk up and read the fine print, but I'll bet it reads something to the effect "Now we can slaughter more black children than ever!"

Sorry, but it takes one heck of a SICK person to CELEBRATE a "bigger and better" way to kill children.

BAB. I have mentioned those facts
merely to suggest that you use those facts to bolster your conclusions. "We" are little but "BAB" is big: just look at my credentials.

Hardly any TH posters spend time telling about themselves. But, you, BAB, do. You blab, BAB. You preen, you display. And then cry "stalker". You joke, BAB.

Pre-existing conditions
There is absolutely no reason insurance should begin to cover those already sick any more than you should be allowed to buy fire insurance for your home after it has burned down or life insurance after you die.

If you want to pay the medical bill of someone who suddenly finds themselves seriously injured or ill and hasn't saved or prepared for whatever reason, then do it, but don't pretend it's anything but welfare. Also don't pretend that whatever deep pocket you intend to pilfer didn't "need" the money.

Bob C. 9 times? You are swallowing
hooey, Bob. Google the issue yourself.

William

Marginalized? Me? LMAO! Money gets access and results. OTOH, you are just a poor, old schmuck living in some dump in WA.

Richard in California. Pay
attention to the rules for signing up for Medicare when you are 65.

Left Angle
"The more i read this constant whining, b**tching and moaning from the right wing fringe repubs/cons the more confident I am that dems will maintain control of congress and Prez Obama will be easily re-elected in 2010/2012 respectively.

You remind of those die-hard New England Patriot fans who so confident that the Patriots were going to beat the Giants but instead ended up with egg on their faces.


The posters in this site & the GOP remind me of spoiled childtren stomping their feet and shouting NO!!! when they have their favorite toys (the white house/u.s. congress/power) taken from them.

Actually the exact opposite is true. There have been many documented studies to prove this. One that came out recently was by Dr. Lyle Rossiter in his book ""The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494

No Offense but do you ever get tired of pulling you foot out of your mouth? If its at all possible, try engaging your brain before putting your mouth in gear.

PommelOil. I calculate it to be
supported by 610 million legs. And you will be forever marginalized because you can agree to no party platform.

ps:
beowolfe needs bannin'............


forever.

Almack's annual Medical Costs
Physical exam, blood work etc. Couple of other random visits...paid in cash... less than $800.

age...64. no way do i want to sign up for Soc. Sec. before 70.5, 'cuz then i'll be forced into a "government option."
Phyle that!

bewowlfe I rest my case
your post at #207 proves that beyond the shadow of a doubt you have completely lost your mind.

get help soon dude...you are truly in "another void" of you own orbit..lol

btw: I have copied your post and i am sending in on to other lib/dem websites for reveiw...

Would someone please
explain to me why there is absolutely no discussion about tort reform or people being able to buy insurance across state lines. Surely, we can find a reasonable solution to providing insurance coverage to those five million or so who are now uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions. For those who do not care to buy insurance, let them take their chances---life is all about choices.
Perhaps we can take some of that 750 billion TARP monies and purchase insurance for thoes uninsurables.
Personally, I don't think any of this is about health care; that's just the ruse. This is about, not only controlling 1/6th of the economy, it's about changing every aspect of American society because everything reverts back to health and safety etc.

William...
You are not answering any of my questions...come on you have to have a brain however drug addled it is. Are you brave or just a liberal coward?

thoughtadventure
Don't worry.

The best thing any person wanting to be a doctor can do is leave the United States. If ObamaKKKare passes, I know I'm looking for a new place to live, and so are a whole hell of a lot of productive people.

After a decade or so, after millions upon millions of Democrats needlessly die because they placed a de facto ban on health care, perhaps then we can start returning...now that the nation has been cleansed of the America-hating fascist filth that were too stupid to vote AGAINST Little Hitler.

I'm amazed.
Sinister Angle has gotten reworded talking points, but has YET to utter even a SINGLE original syllable.

I figure by this time tomorrow, the very same cut-and-paste blathers by Sinister Angle will appear here yet again.

By the way, Sinister Angle, seeing as how Obama has lost over 5 million jobs since he started "saving and creating" jobs, can you identify even a SINGLE created or saved job?

And talk to me after the 2010 elections, and we'll just see who is "whining".

SFA1973

He does strike me as the box type. Lives in one and drinks out of another.

William

Why don't you tell us how much furniture it takes to support the weight of the SS "Trust Fund"?

How do you know my political philosophy? For all you know, I could be an anarchist. I am certainly not a Liberal or a Conservative.

I worry
I worry that more enormously talented people will decide it is not worth making the hugh sacrifices necessary to become doctors.

I worry that people will decide that old people who are no longer "productive" will not be worth having around.

I hope to became an old person myself someday.

Pomerol:
Wee Washington Willie is a sommelier, he is an expert on the finer wines, MD 20-20, Boone's Farm, and other like brands.

William

I thought that you claimed to be a sommelier.

Reba and PommelOil. While
you watch the judge together, tell yourself how many Senators confirmed him for a position on the authoritarian Bench. And imagine the kind of furniture that it must take to support all that weight.

William
Why do you have this peculiar obsession with the details of my personal life? Why do you care where I live? Why do you care how my father chose to spend his money forty years ago? You're coming across as more than a little nutty and very unhealthy.

Why, exactly, have I been honored by picking up a stalker?

Free health care's a' coming...
So start those taxes rolling, rolling...The check's in the mail...but expect a slight delay...it's post-dated to 2013...don't worry though, the democrats promise not to spend any of it on earmarks...Heh heh!

William:
It may seem strange to you being in the Blue Backwater of WA, that there are actually people, many quite wealthy who actually prefer living in small towns. I know I do.

One Thing Is Certain

William never could have been a contender. Never.

IN ADDITION

to Dr. Sowell's excellent article watch this video of Judge Napolitano's passionate speech on the constitutionality of the Healthcare bill.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY

BAB, really, I know norhing about
you except what you say about yourself. You have spoken of the noble heritage you have been denied by time, of the months' long trip to see the Continent gifted to you by your father, of the beautiful pistol given to you by your father.

Most of the posters here claim to be little folks, powerless but independent souls. But you, BAB, you claim all the gifts that Teddy Roosevelt had. And yet you abide in a dusty little working class town in Arizona where you are a big frog. When you could have been a contender, BAB.

It's all about CONTROL
The 1,990 page bureaucratic/socialist nightmare the Democratic caucus is now presenting to the American people as its 'vision' for 'Health Care' for all Americans has nothing to do with 'health care', but is all about CONTROL of the American people, in ALL areas of their daily lives, shredding of the Constitution, and elimination of personal freedoms. I doubt that even a HANDFUL of the 'apparatchiks' who will unquestioningly toe the party line and vote "YEA' for this socialist 'takeover' monstrosity have even READ IT...

Wall Street Journal
There is an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal about Pelousycare. $1.1 trillion to start with, $2 trillion expected for the first ten years with the costs to go up. Over 600 references to taxes, fees, etc. in the package. Take a look at it. And definately read the bill since it is now out. It is worse than Obamacare.

NO!! is the correct response
Suppose a child had destroyed his teeth from a steady diet of candy and soda. Despite his plight, the child constantly asked his mother for more candy and coke. A liberal parent would feel compassion for the child and give into his short-sighted demands. A loving parent would say NO!!

Once yet get your wish list of government candy such as "free health care", cap and trade, and unions in every workplace, and your grandchildren are paying $200 for a loaf of bread AND holding $100,000 IOU notes payable to the Peoples Republic of China, then they will be cursing you for your inability to say "NO!!".

VA Doctors
I think there are basically two types of VA doctors.

1) Those who are so bad they can't run a private practice. Their patients immediately go to someone else.

2) Military doctors who started out in the military and still mostly follow military doctrine of medicine. For instance, in real life you NEVER put on a tourniquet since it will mean amputation of the limb. In the military you ALWAYS put on one since it means a soldier who might otherwise have to remain with the wounded man will be able to return to battle. By the same token, military doctors are expected to amputate rather than try to save a limb since it will shorten the time spent caring for the soldier, freeing more time to treat other soldiers.

apology
Mea Culpa, that's Dr. Sowell. Those titles are well earned even in this day and age. No insult intended by my previous oversight.

Yes, Anne,
Obama took the oath to defend the Constitution, just as our military soldiers do. Unfortunately, he hasn't done it, has he? If he had, he would realize that health care is a state issue, per the 10th Amendment. He would realize that all religion, including Christianity, is to be left alone. He would have left Fox News alone. He would have left GM and the banks alone.

But even though he is officially an "expert" on the Constitution, he certainly appears as if it is a brand new document that he never saw before, doesn't he?

Left Angle
We are not right wing or fringe. The people I marched with on 9/12 in DC were a wide cross-section of middle America.

At least you admit that power has been taken from the American people, by the WH and Congress. Since FDR, the foundations of this country have been under constant assault by the WH, Congress and the Supreme Court. You don't seem to notice from your vantage point of sucking on the teat of "Mother Government." But this teat will eventually run dry, and then you will probably blame conservatives for "not sharing the wealth" and "not paying their fair share of taxes."

Here is an idea for you: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

But I doubt you will understand these ideas . . .

Left Angle...
There are ideas and many have been proposed in Congress. We are not the party of "No" just the party of "No Access"

real cost
The true cost of government health care is our Liberty. Ask Esau what that bowl of pottage cost him.

We are about to sell our birthright for a promise that cannot be kept. Future generations will curse our name as they seek to rediscover Liberty and the heritage of the West. Our grandchildren will never forgive us nor should they.

BTW, does the hate crime bill, now law, address what Mr. Sowell discusses? Perhaps he is now a racist.

SS "Trust Fund"

Take a look at that secure Social Security fund here:

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/social-security-stunner- bankruptcy-nation-moved-several-years/15944

Build your own Social Security trust fund with this supply list:

One printed example of an IOU from the Fed. govt.
A car with gasoline
$300
10 reams of letter-sized paper
Several three-ring binders
3 ring hole punch
One file cabinet

Directions:

Get in your car and drive to Staples. Give your one copy of a Fed. govt. IOU to clerk. Ask clerk to copy your IOU on 5000 pieces of letter-sized paper. After receiving copies, purchase enough three-ring binders to hold "documents". Pick up a 3 ring hole punch and a file cabinet. Pay for your purchases. Get back into your car and drive home. Punch holes in all 5000 sheets of paper and place them into binder. Put all binders in file cabinet. Stand back and behold your own Social Security "Trust Fund".

Tad
"What Mr. Sowell forgets in his usual conservative diatribe is that we have a perfectly good government-run health care model in the U.S. now--it's called the Veteran's Administration and it covers millions of people."

Spoken like someone who has never set foot in a VA hospital! I've visited such hospitals, and I saw over-crowded wards, poorly-maintained facilities, a very unfriendly and impersonal staff, and a ton of bureaucracy. Is this what the Democrats want from the rest of America?

Keep talking, Tad. You're making the case against national health care better than any of us conservatives ever could.


Brilliant as always
Thomas Sowell is one of the most brilliant and eloquent men of our time. He breaks down the complex to the simplest and most understandable terms. I wish there were more people like him in politics...

Sowell for Pres in 2012.

Sour Grapes From Sore Losers...
The more i read this constant whining, b**tching and moaning from the right wing fringe repubs/cons the more confident I am that dems will maintain control of congress and Prez Obama will be easily re-elected in 2010/2012 respectively.

The posters in this site & the GOP remind me of spoiled childtren stomping their feet and shouting NO!!! when they have their favorite toys (the white house/u.s. congress/power) taken from them.

the gop/cons have nothing in terms of ideas to offer as solutions to the nations most serious problems in contrast and opposition to the dems ideas/solutions...

William
"BAB in Arizona. You are the only
poster on the TH roster that can legitimately claim to have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth." I was born the son of an immigrant who was an unemployed Merchant Marine officer. He came here with nothing and every member of his family died a millionaire. We made the spoon, and in the end, it was a golden one. I went to college and three graduate schools on full tuition academic scholarships because I am intelligent and work very hard, the second being the most important as I had to earn my own living expenses as a morgue attendant, deputy sheriff, or working professional. Virtually everything you say about me shows a basic lack of comprehension skills in reading and a weird tendency to behave like a stalker. Your fascination with what you imagine to be the details of my life is a sick obsession. I am simply not that fascinating even to myself. Get therapy.

William...
How is this house bill working for you? Obama wanted to bring down health care costs for the consumer...right? How is taxing all aspects of health care providing going to accomplish this? The costs will be passed down from corporations to the consumer. How is this bring affordable health care?

%#*@ No "We won't buy!"
If this health care bill passes, suppose everyone refuses to cooperate and not buy the gov't insurance?

I've never recommended civil disobendience, but I think it's time.

BAB in Arizona. You are the only
poster on the TH roster that can legitimately claim to have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth. And yet you have aspired to little more than a place in the sun.

You coulda been a contender, BAB. And with Sowell a better man.

You remember the founder of Countrywide, don't you? A man with a red face. Asked if he was the risk manager for the company, as a component of his CEO place in the company and as a justification for his salary and percs, he said "yes, he was".

And, wonderfully illustrative of his value to a corporation, with respect to the collapse of his empire, he said "who coulda known?"


The VA - Friend of the Veteran
The VA treated a lot of Post-traumatic stress syndrome. Oddly enough, after twenty five years they noticed that nobody was getting any better and many were getting worse.

Out in the real world, other psychiatrists and psychologists had discovered that the standard methodology used in all VA hospitals were actually producing this result, and doing nearly the opposite worked well. Despite this knowledge, the VA CONTINUED to use the destructive therapy for years because there was no easy mechanism to do an about face and use a more effective treatment.

Government medical care is wonderful. Just ask the survivors of it.

Rev
This articles about American healthcare, what the hell country are you talking about.

I've now heard the CBO estimates that this whopper of a bill is gonna insure all of 2% of those who need it. At costs around a trillion bucks. So why not, cmon folks thats a great deal.

As usual...great article Dr. Sowell

Lilly reply 97
Lilly: "So the conservative argument defeats itself. Conservatives want doctors working in a private practice model in which they get paid according to the number of visits and procedures, and yet they distrust those same doctors, believing that they insist on unnecessary visits and procedures just so they can make more money."

I distrust doctors in the current system because the current system, where the government option is to control competition by not allowing a free market across state lines, allows doctors to make a lot of money off the insurance companies.

In a free market where the 1600+ insurance companies in the nation could compete, they would not work with doctors that did not control cost, thus eliminating all the excessive charges.

The single biggest problem we have with the current health insurance/care system is government interference.

So the solution is more government interference?

(Lilly...please....don't reply. It will just prove you don't have the intellectual capacity to comprehend the concept of a free market.)

Obama Change = ObamaSpeak

ObamaSpeak 2009, 'Necessity' now means wanting some one elses money.

ObamaSpeak 2009, 'Greed' now means wanting to keep your own money.

ObamaSpeak 2009, 'Compassion' now means Barack Obama stealing your money and giving it to someone who won't work.

ObamaSpeak 2009, 'Hate' now means disagreeing with a Liberal on any subject.

ObamaSpeak 2009, 'Racist' now means not doing exactly what Barack Obama wants, when he wants.

Tom in Texas. How does
"state line crossing" work in Texas? And Texas is a model for conservatives, no? And has more without health insurance than any liberal State in the US, eh.

jim#1
Buying government bonds with social security dollars is the government borrowing from itself.

It takes those taxed dollars, coerced through payroll taxes, and spends them on other government boondoggles.

I don't know your age, but there will be nothing left for you on Social Security.

Right now, it takes three workers for every retiree. With the baby boomers getting ready to retire, how long do you think this can go on?

It is already unsustainable and ready to go broke.

I am starting to hate them
Obama, Reid, Pelosi and their pals. I used to think they were misguided, but I have now concluded that they are corrupt and stupid. What a dangerous combination. There is ABSOLUTELY no way that a 1,990 page bill can make anything better. By definition, it will add substantial complexity and huge costs to our current health care system. Conservatives weep, but liberals cheer. This is exactly what they want-more government and more taxes.


many people have sacrificed

their lives and their fortunes so that we americans might enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

since when has citizens being dictated to, under the threat of violence, by the federal government as to how to care for themselves become interpreted as the enjoyment of either liberty or the pursuit of happiness?

should we abandon the freedoms that our forefathers suffered and died to provide to us?

I might have more
faith in the VA if Murtha, Kerry, Hal, the Lying REREMF Doofasss, and Secretary Shinseki used the system's medical facilities. Then again after the "treatment," both medical and bureaucratic, I received in the system I doubt it.

Barack Obama the Scoundrel

“There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel.”
Vladimir Lenin

jim#1 - II
"No Blue this or That, just take a sum from the pay check account, and place it in an accunt and each medical providor must write a check each day, for the work done."

Americans do not have individual accounts with their names on them that are held for them by the Federal government. Your FICA taxes have been going into the general fund for many, many decades.

"In Soc Sec, the money is taken out of your check, put in an account, and paid to those who qualify. Not much chance for fraud. I have never had a phone call or a letter asking what I did with the check I got this month."

There is no "account". Again, it goes into the general fund, which is used to pay for whatever the Federal government desires.




jim#1 - I
"They made you buy Soc Sec, they can make you buy anything."

You are not "buying" SS. You are paying taxes. You do not have to accept SS money. Paying the taxes is mandatory. Accepting the dollars is voluntary.

In 1993, the CBO and government lawyers advised the WH and Congress that the Federal government has NEVER forced citizens to purchase goods and services as a condition of good citizenship. They were told that such a mandate would be "unprecedented" and, likely, unconstitutional.

"Health care should be done the same way as Sco Sec, including put any excess in Gov bonds until needed."

There is no excess. Seniors drawing SS take three times as much money as they paid into the program. Last year's estimate as to when SS would become insolvent was 2017. Now, it is projected to become insolvent next year. SS, as well as Medicare and Medicaid, make up nearly 60% of the national budget. $0.43 of every $1 spent in DC is wasted. $0.40 of every $1 spent in DC is borrowed. In 10 years, the number of seniors will double. There are fewer workers paying into a program that has more people making demands upon it.

Understand this, the US is broke. At the end of last year, the Treasury had $800bn in cash on hand. Now, it is $1.7tn in the red. We are borrowing money to pay for the insane spending.


excess money invested in

Hard Thought Location: KS
Reply # 2
Date: Nov 3, 2009 - 1:07 PM EST
jim#1
Are you serious? Are you SERIOUS????
=====

Yes I am.

Have you ever heard of google? look up soc Sec Fund.

The excess money is not spent by congress, Gov Bonds are bought with the excess money, each money.

Of course if stupid Congress does not increase the collection of money, it will run out. Not the fault of Soc Sec, the fault of congress.

What would you like the monthly excess money invested in, other than Gov Bonds?


Re: Stuck on Stupid!
"What Mr. Sowell forgets in his usual conservative diatribe is that we have a perfectly good government-run health care model in the U.S. now--it's called the Veteran's Administration and it covers millions of people."

What you seem to forget is that Veteran's Medical Care System is less that 10th of 1 percent of the total medical care in this nation. The best example of government medical care services are MediCare and Medicaide, to bankrupt systems riddle with fraud that can't aford to pay doctors and hospitals what they need to survive, and the Medical Care given to American Indians living on the Reservation. Even the Veteran's Medical Care System which is sub-par would bankrupt America if it extended to everyone as some sort of birth right.

BTW, most of so-called "uninsured" are either illegal aliens, young and don't want insurance, or qualify for other existing programs, so your "bleeding heart" sob story is an illogical conclussion based on insufficient data.

Georgetwin
"You are smashing your head against a cement wall trying to teach LA anything

Well your right but if I'm going to bang my head against something, i'd perfer to bang it against something softer like a paper wall.

Excellent--
Another clear and concise column by the MAN himself. Plus some excellent posts by the fine
conservative bloggers on this thread.

Didn't Lenin and the boys present
their plan of egalitarianism, as representing "compassion" for the poor working man? There have been a lot of attempts to "make all men equal" but that is a futile venture, since everyone (including the poor) fare best when each man or woman is allowed to "be all that they can be."

Aristotle warns that most democracies will morph into oligarchies as the vote of the masses is purchased via largesse. That process has occurred (or is occurring) in Zimbabwe, Argentina, Cuba, and Venezuela. And it seems to be occurring here.

jim#1
Are you serious? Are you SERIOUS????

Social Security funds were put into a slush fund to be paid when a person became eligible. There are NO individual accounts. The number is merely for identification purposes.

Lyndon Baines Johnson presided over removing the social security funds and adding them to the General Fund so he could act like he was being frugal when, in fact, he was spending the money ahead of time.

There is NO social security general fund. It has almost all been spent.

Why would there be anything different in health insurance reform????

I have to believe that people that
support this don't see what is coming.

Even overlooking the fact that in 5 years we all lose private insurance under the house bill any public option will finish off private insurance for all but a seect few (Congress, government workers, some union workers).

My company a Fortune 100 and a top-rated company for employee benefits etc. just sent the following with our open enrollment information. A note saying that they will be watching the health reform actions closely and of course will make their decisions on our 2011 benefits based on what happens and keeping our services competitive: basically even this company (one of the least likely to dump employee benefits) is hinting that we could be dumped onto a cheaper public option.

Tad
You may think the VA is good care but the docs who serve there are not as kind. My first husband is a VA doc and he says that he has 10 minute for an exam and 15 minute to write it up. This is good care?

And please stop with the horse manure that those of us on the right don't care about people in general. That's the oldest and smelliest piece of crud you can try to dish out. The fact is that the left seems to have more people that think the USA owes them for just existing. It's called "the never growing up" syndrome.

The VA Works Because It Owns You!
Tad offers, "What Mr. Sowell forgets in his usual conservative diatribe is that we have a perfectly good government-run health care model in the U.S. now--it's called the Veteran's Administration and it covers millions of people."

Let me get this right, you think a that owns its Consumers is just fine with you?

Soldiers are, by definition, property of the State. The VA has the authority to dictate their Consumer's behavior. A soldier that does not follow the dictates of the military (doctors, officers, code-of-conduct ... etc) can lose its benefits.

Are you crazy???

So, maybe to you, such a system where the povider has dictatorial powers over the Consumer is a perfectly fine system for civilians. I understand. You are a Liberal and you think freedom is over-rated. But, unlike you, most Americans do not want the Gov't dictating our behaviors.

On the other hand, Obama loves you.

Tad...
You are talking apples and oranges...lets assume for a minute that VA is great, perfect even. This is not what Pelosi and crew are foisting upon us. It is not "economical", it will cost 1.2 trillion, even at CBO's historically wrong grading. It will not lower costs for health care because of the taxes that are to be levied on every aspect of health care. Those taxes are going to make it more expensive than it is now. It is all good to have these warm fuzy feelings but unfortunatly the real world get in the way.

The High Cost of Liberal Ignorance

Ignorance is the Mothers Milk of Liberalism.

The lack of knowledge of the total failure of the vast majority of bureaucratic operations in comparison to the free market is abundantly available yet people constantly look to the governmental bureaucracy to solve their problems.

The amazing thing about this type of ignorance is that everyone has been exposed to how poorly government and large government protected companies operate, yet they fail to make the direct correlation to the bureaucratic system as the root of the problem.

This turning of a blind eye to what in reality is highly detrimental to any individual in this case “the nanny state” makes it easy to understand how snake oil salesmen make a good living.

Liberal Ignorance and inability to comprehend that Government bureaucracy as compared to the 'Free Market' is extremely costly.

Every citizen in America has been exposed at some point in their lives to Government inefficiency, whether at the drivers license bureau, dealing with the IRS or trying to make sense of property or school taxes.

Liberals believe this same Government bureaucracy can 'Save and Protect' American industry.

Liberals believe this same Government bureaucracy can efficiently run the Health Care industry, even though their 'Pied Piper', Barack Obama has 'Clearly Stated' that the Government Agency (Medicare) that he is CEO and COO of, has fraudulent waste built into the Medicare System to the 'Tune' of 60 to 80 billion dollars per year.

Liberal logic always determines that 'Investing in Failure', whether it is a business or a citizen (or illegal immigrant) always trumps investing in success.

NOTE to LIBERALS: 'CEO' means Chief Executive Officer, 'COO' means Chief Operating Officer.

Sheepdog
You are smashing your head against a cement wall trying to teach LA anything. For proof, ask him about liquor stores.

Tort reform essential
Frivolous law suits, filed by mercenary lawyers(a redundant phrase) seeking the multi-million dollar 'jackpot' on behalf of their 'injured' clients is, as Dr. Sowell noted, a key component of the stratospheric climb in health care costs. What is jacking up the costs are fearful doctors, afraid of being hit for the 'grand slam' malpractice suit, ordering test after expensive and unnecessary test for their patients, not because sound medical practice requires it, but because the doctors are, legally, 'covering their butts' from avaricious lawyers (another redundant phrase). Meaningful tort reform, which a key aspect of reforming the health care system, and driving costs down, is NOT likely to happen anytime soon because the Democratic caucus is IN BED with the Trial Lawyers association. Corruption in health care cannot be dealt with UNTIL corruption in Congress is...

Don't be afraid, give me an answer.

Health care should be done the same way as Sco Sec, including put any excess in Gov bonds until needed.

No Blue this or That, just take a sum from the pay check account, and place it in an accunt and each medical providor must write a check each day, for the work done.

If the check includes even 1¢ of fraud, the signer goes to jail for a minute, a day, whatever.

In Soc Sec, the money is taken out of your check, put in an account, and paid to those who qualify. Not much chance for fraud. I have never had a phone call or a letter asking what I did with the check I got this month.

Under my medical care plan, no one asks the dr what he did, it is just between you and your dr., just like we did 80 years ago.

Don't be afraid, give me an answer.

Liberals question for you?

When you elected a 'Clown' for President in 2008, did you not realize there would be a Circus?

SFA1973
He has obviously never been to the VA. I swore a solemn oath that I would never set foot in the place again and rely on my own private insurance and my own money. They are inefficient, incompetent in some cases, and hire the bottom of the barrel.

Anyone who would make a statement like that idiot made has never been within a mile of a VA hospital for anything more serious than bonesetting, which a competent veterinarian can do better.

DSMike

I wouldn't wait on William to say anything of brilliance. His stupidity knows no bounds.

Left Angle
"while you right wingers gripe primariy about anything the dems do.

Why shouldn't we? Everything the government tries to run, turns into an unmitigating diaster. Having a government run health care system in your opinion may be good but theres always this thing called "unintended consequeses" that rears it's ugly head.
A good example would be when the government mandated ethanol in gasoline.
One does not have to look far to see that anything the government tries to run i.e. Post Office, Amtrak etc. runs deficets year in and year out and ends up being subsidized by "WE" the taxpayers. You may think that it is all well and good, but those of us that do work can make better use of the money we make than to see it go down the drain.


About that VA
Hate to break it to you, but millions of people eligible for the VA also have insurance through their job and they DON'T USE THE VA. My father in law was such a case. Yes, when he was in his 70's and his diabetes got really bad and they started taking pieces off he feet etc he started using it. Even then, he preferred going to other doctors, but my wife couldn't take time off 6,7,8 times a months to take him around town. The VA could schedule things all on one day. As the money ran out after the third divorce he HAD to use the VA. Still, he fought in WWII, so for more than FIFTY years he used private doctors. That is one reason it works so well. If everybody that could use the VA did use it they would be overwhelmed.
Another little story. After he started using the "free" benefits, this man who had started half a dozen businesses and paid his own way his whole life got to where he didn't want my wife to go buy a 3 dollar bottle of aspirin. "put in on the list. I don't have to pay for that stuff" I told him he had turned into a welfare queen because he had.

Healt care is not expensive
And as P.J. O'Rourke said, "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free."

Businesses Work For Their Benefactors
Patti offers, "...She had to go to a critical care place which, because of their icky profit motive, were always able to see her almost immediately."

Well said!

Everyone works for their benfactor. In profit based companies, the Consumer is the benefactor and all innovation and services are geared to win over the Consumer's good will (read: money). In the Profit scenario, the Consumer is king and trumps all else.

By the same token, in a Gov't Option, the Gov't is the benefactor and all innovation and services are geared to win over the Gov't's good will. In a non-profit scenario, the benefactor (Gov't or Donar) is king and trumps all else, including the Consumer.

You show me a business that does not profit from your good will and I will show you a business that does not care about you. Obamacare will be a perfect example.

Ted:
Obviously, you have NEVER received treatment at a VA facility. If you had, you'd never make such an inane, insane, idiotic, illogical statement like, "The V.A. has had its problems in the past, but it has worked to solve them. The doctors, nurses, and staff are employed by the government, but I never hear any conservative point to their dificiencies, like they do Britain's and Canada's systems. You can always find negative examples in any system, but I'd guess that most Americans are satisfied with their care through the V.A."

Scott G
These people are INCAPABLE of reading "Chicken Little" or "The Little Engine that could", let alone the BRILLIANCE of Dr. Sowell.

Sowell's Soul
What Mr. Sowell forgets in his usual conservative diatribe is that we have a perfectly good government-run health care model in the U.S. now--it's called the Veteran's Administration and it covers millions of people.

The V.A. has had its problems in the past, but it has worked to solve them. The doctors, nurses, and staff are employed by the government, but I never hear any conservative point to their dificiencies, like they do Britain's and Canada's systems. You can always find negative examples in any system, but I'd guess that most Americans are satisfied with their care through the V.A.

If he, and other conservatives, had a little more compassion for their fellow Americans without health insurance, and their consequent limitations on health care--instead of discounting its benefits--we'd be able to solve this thing in an economical fashion. But then, he's be out of a job.

A focused calculation...
If, as reported, health insurance companies net 2-4% profit, their premiums are not excessive.
MD take home salaries, after they pay their facilities, staff, insurance, etc., are not by and large excessive.
So where's the problem, or could it be that good healthcare with good technology is expensive? By the way, doing much testing is the path toward precise diagnosis, not implicitly "defensive medicine" to be deplored.
Reimbursing all these at less than cost plus profit is criminally not the answer. Let's look elsewhere.

Incentive
I watch libs try to rationalize all there policies and how we need to be fair and people should not go broke for health care and it all sounds so nice, until you realize they have no understanding of how human beings are driven by incentive. The left always wants to remove the incentive thinking that will take the evil profit motive away and we can all live in heaven on earth. Funny there is not one such place on this earth after all the attempts to create an incentive free society. Millions have been killed in the attempts but no victories yet.

Government created a false "demand"
by strong-arming banks into making non-sustainable sub-prime housing loans. That house of cards fell, creating a psunami of related financial problems.

The gov't then attempted to shore up "supply,"
loaning GM 16 billion to produce cars for which there was inadequate demand--the inevitable result of bankruptcy occurred anyway.

Gov't now suggests that it will make health care cheap via "price controls."

Obviously, these people never read Dr Sowell's
book "Basic Economics."

Left Angle...
Name one thing Rush has said about Obama that is a lie. Just one.

William...
Common sense time:

What happens when you tax everything within the health care system?

1. Companies can eat the tax increase.

2. They will pass along the extra charges.

Because we are a captitalist nation number two will happen. So in seeing this fact exactly how are health care costs going to go down?

Awaiting your brilliant response.

William
In a post full of silliness and outright lies, you said one true thing: "Drug costs are high because development costs are high," That is absolutely true. Development costs are a magnitude of greatness higher than all the other minor things you mention put together. And CEOs are not figureheads. That is simply irrational. Do you suppose that a board of directors sits down and says, "Let's pay some bozo who looks good in an Armani suit to be our figurehead and pay him $30 million a year,"? You are totally irrational in your beliefs. By the way, when I lived in Maine my neighbor was the CEO of Merck. I guarantee you that he was no figurehead.

willie_WAWA: One would think that

Dr. Sowell doesn't have to "claim" that he's read the bill.

UNLIKE the libs, most Conservatives, including Dr Sowell, actually DO their homework, and therefore it's a safe presumption that Dr. Sowell actually DID read the bill.

YOU, on the other hand......