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Wednesday, July 08, 2009
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Tangled Web: Part II
by Thomas Sowell
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Much of the backlog of cases in our over-burdened courts has been created by the courts themselves, with adventurous judicial "interpretations" of laws that leave a large gray area of uncertainty around even the most plainly written legislation. Lawyers of course fish in these troubled waters, creating much needless litigation, but it is judges who have troubled the waters in the first place.

Nowhere is this more true than in civil rights cases. Since the Constitution of the United States and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 both decree equal treatment for all, there should not be nearly as much basis for litigation in civil rights cases as there is-- at least not in cases where the facts are well known and undisputed, as in the recent New Haven firefighters' case that made it all the way up to the Supreme Court.

What was it that required three different levels of federal courts to try to figure out whether what actually happened was or was not racial discrimination-- with a decision finally being reached by the narrowest possible margin of 5 to 4 in the Supreme Court?

At the heart of much of this legal complexity and moral angst is a judge-made theory that a "disparate impact" of any job requirement on different groups is evidence of discrimination.

With two very different theories of what constitutes job discrimination-- either different treatment or different outcomes-- it is no wonder that courts have tied themselves into knots trying to figure out whether a particular case shows racial discrimination, even when the facts are known and plain.

The same notion-- and the same confusion-- applies in many other situations. If a higher proportion of blacks than whites get turned down for mortgage loans, then that too has been taken as evidence of racial discrimination.

It doesn't matter if blacks and whites are different on innumerable factors that go into mortgage loan decisions, as are Hispanics or Asian Americans as well.

All these groups have different credit scores, different incomes and many other differences. Why is it surprising that they have different loan approval rates? While the issue is often posed in terms of whites versus non-whites, whites also get turned down for mortgage loans more often than Asian Americans, who usually have higher credit scores than whites.

Only the underlying dogma that different outcomes for different groups are evidence of discrimination makes this an issue-- and a source of unending controversy and polarization.

It is not that judges are incapable of seeing through the intellectual flaw in the "disparate impact" dogma. But that dogma is too central to efforts at social engineering to be given up for the sake of mere logic or facts.

That is why courts split along ideological fault lines in cases like the New Haven firefighters' case, where the crucial facts are not even in dispute. The only real dispute is over whether a test is automatically biased if different groups pass it at different rates. Apparently the groups themselves cannot possibly be different, according to "disparate impact" theory.

Facts play a very small role in such issues-- including the facts as to whether social engineering-- especially a lowering of standards for blacks-- actually helps blacks on net balance. But empirical studies indicate that black students do better at colleges and universities where their qualifications are similar to those of the other students at those institutions and worse where they are admitted with wide disparities in qualifications.

Where in fact have blacks been most successful? Sports and entertainment come to mind immediately. These are areas where blacks have to meet the same standards as anybody else.

If Derek Jeter swings at three pitches and misses, he is out, just like any white ballplayer. If people stop watching Oprah Winfrey's program, it will get cancelled, just like anybody else's.

The biggest beneficiaries from the "disparate impact" dogma are those who claim to be helping minorities. They benefit by feeling noble, winning votes or attracting money. The actual consequences for blacks-- or for the polarization of American society-- seems to be of little concern.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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weird
In this case I understand one of the persons that passed the test studied non stop all the time and made it his mission to pass. So are we not to took at individuals, some of who might not have even studied and others that did and if the ones who did not study are a minority they get a free pass, second try or the guy who sweated bullet to pass just is not given the prize. Thats pretty weird and you would think not hard to get full agreement on it being so, and very un-American in the most fundamental way. But such is the inanity of this system thats been built up over the years.

"Feeling noble"
Maybe. But in some respects that's a clever ruse. They are cowards. By getting behind all the lies under the cover of some warped & twisted American version of noblesse oblige, they know they can avoid the word 'racist' ever appearing in any reference to themselves, thus protecting, they believe, their prestige & career.
This past 4th, an email circulated telling how the signers of the Declaration of Independence all suffered for standing up for truth. These latter-day 'nobility' are nothing but hypocrites who only look after their own self-interest. They are disgusting.

Actual Racism
Where’s the outrage at New Haven by Jackson, Sharpton, the NAACP, etc? After all, no blacks in New Haven actually tried to sue the city over these results.

The city, on their own, assumed, “Those blacks will never think ‘Damn, guess I need to study harder next year’ like most white folks would do, no they’ll whine, refuse to accept any responsibility for their poor scores, and then they’ll probably sue us”.

Do no blacks see the inherent racism in New Haven’s actions?

David
From what I have seen, conservatives want equal opportunity, liberals want equal outcomes.
Simple as that.

Human Engineering Flaw
Perhaps the greatest flaw in the attempts at human engineering is that not enough attention is paid to what it means to be human. Human beings have free will and that comes down to choice. In the case of the New Haven firefighters it was the choice to prepare for the test. There were African Americans who passed the test, but were not among the top scores that would earn immediate promotion.

If a middle school teacher gives a test and all of the girls pass and most of the boys don't. Is the test gender biased or did the girls study harder?

Chicken Little was RIGHT all along!
The entire nation is most certainly on the inevitable course towards a train wreck of biblical proportions. Those who don't know history are condemned to repeat it! We are duplicating nearly every thing that lead to the fall of Rome (pre-empire through empire.) Courts were corrupt, laws were ignored, fiscal annihilation was fomented by the governments attempts to "manage the economy" the Roman equivalent to "equal opportunity" was to confer Roman citizenship on the disenfranchised and conquered peoples. Commerce was undermined by the governments attempts to control it! The rulers were clever manipulative demigods! Need I go on?

Further, Ayn Rand in her novel "Atlas Shrugged" predicted with near precision the destruction of our nation! The sky IS falling and Chicken Little is right! At the risk of yet another cliche', the hand writing on the wall is clear, unfortunately no one believes those of us that see it, and we are powerless to prevent the train wreck.

More on Chicken Little
For those here who may think I am despondent and negative - here is my answer and motto:

"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

What Context
Judge Ginsberg indicated in her dissent that we need to take the case in it's context. So the law must apply in context to where the case originates? Does the make-up of New Haven relative to the make-up of Dallas mean that the law is different in each city? No! The law is only to be interpreted in the context of the Constitution and laws on the books.

My question on the larger scope is, "why is the Supreme Court even hearing a case that is not federal in nature"? I believe the Constitution says that the states should be deciding their own business. And if the mayor decides to circumvent the law then the state should be responsible. We keep complaining how the federal government screws up everything it touches but we turn to it for everything. Including problems they should not be involved with.

A leper in a tuxedo
It isn't about racism or justice. Social engineering requires governments especially courts to impose their perspectives upon the masses. It is all about their power. So don't look for common sense to prevail. All the better when their decisions cause confusion and strife among the masses, which then inflates their pseudo perception of superiority and power. Elitism is truly ugly no matter how fancy one dresses, like a leper in a tuxedo.

The biggest planned conflict of interest
Lawyers fill congress and pass laws that are purported to solve the problems caused by the failure of the last law the lawyers passed to solve some problem. Lawyers, (snakes to the skin)then get to benifit from the conflict and confusion the laws they (or their conflicted brethren passed)on both sides of a case, whereupon another lawyer in a robe gets to screw it up even further, passing or altering the original law under the guise of justice. This ultimately finds its way to the Supreme Lawyers who then make the law they think should have straightened the issue out in the first place -thereby screwing it up even more and causing lawyers in congress to pass even more silly legislation to counter their ruling. Net result: all the lawyers have power and get paid well for their incompetence (half lose the case) while America suffers with eminations from penumbra or something like that. Which is lawyer talk for, "I made that up myself."

How LIberals Treat Blacks
Liberals use affirmative action and other patronization of blacks as social capital in their elite social sphere. It allows them a feeling of moral superiority, but their pugnacity on racial issues belies their actual motivations. Liberals actually pity blacks, thinking they're incapable of rising above what they perceive to be society's implicit hurdles to black achievement. In enacting these programs, they actually hurt many competent blacks into intellectual fields they're unqualified for. While a smart black kid could excel at UMIch and get a great job, he attends Princeton and fails out and must find a job without a college degree. Liberals risk the livelihoods of the people they claim to care about.

I blog regularly about destructive liberal ideaology. Here's a sample:

http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/06/complancency-of-america n-liberals.html

Here is the crux of the problem:
Sowell said, "The biggest beneficiaries from the "disparate impact" dogma are those who claim to be helping minorities. They benefit by feeling noble, winning votes or attracting money. The actual consequences for blacks-- or for the polarization of American society-- seems to be of little concern"
This is so true. It doesn't matter what the actual outcome is, so long as they "feel good doing something" that can be advertised as helping, or they can be in charge and control something. Catherine Cryer, former judge and TV news correspondent wrote a book a few years ago called "The Case Against Lawyers". It explains how lawyers have screwed up the entire legal system and adversely affected society as a whole. It is damning to lawyers and she was one.

Scap Iron
You are wrong. Conservatives want equal opportunity, liberals DEMAND equal outcome.

free at last...
Wouldn't it be emancipating to follow Dr. Sowell's example of everyone being treated in society as they are at the plate in baseball, or any sport; you preform and you are in, if you don't, regardless of color, you are out or sit down period...that's nice! Dr. Sowell's common sense, yet so intellectual, should be taken at all levels of our culture...what a guy!!

People are stupid
The case of the firefighters in New Haven was outright discrimination against those who passed the test!! Period!! I am glad they won the supreme court case. It is a shame that our government, whether it is local, state or federal, has to discriminate against anyone. It should NOT matter whether the people are white, black, Asian, Hispanic or whatever they are, the rule of law should apply to them ALL the same. If you want to pass a test for promotion, whether you are white, black or other, STUDY, WORK HARD FOR WHAT YOU WANT, and if you pass, you should not be discriminated against because you aren't the right color. I'm so sick of all these racists we have in our country. I don't care if a person is Black, white or any other race, discrimination is discrimination and that should NOT happen in this country!!
Focus your efforts on going after the illegals, the law breakers, and stop discriminating against people doing the right thing.

Liberalism should be BANNED!
It should be our mission to expose liberals, then ban them from public service! http://www.theblacksphere.net Where liberalism is proven to be a mental illness. FUNNY read!

Forbid lawyers
We could eliminate a lot of problems if lawyers were forbidden to hold any legislative office. Just think how nice it would be to have laws we could actually read and understand!

NOT FAIR
The biggest beneficiaries from the "disparate impact" dogma are those who claim to be helping minorities. They benefit by feeling noble, winning votes or attracting money. The actual consequences for blacks-- or for the polarization of American society-- seems to be of little concern.

Although liberals cannot escape blame. I think "not fair" is being used by minorities as a racist power grab. Churches, like the Black Liberation Theology, whose doctrine contains the belief that one race is evil as opposed to another are heretics and fueling a fire of hatred. We are all equal before God and it is long past time we are no longer catagorized. We are individuals and will stand before Him as individuals one day. We will sing together before Him. He commanded us to show forth His love by loving one another. Defining love does not include equal outcomes for races. An individual should be judged on his own effort, merit and gifts.

Dr Sowell keep shining your light

The only way to stop discrimination, is to stop discriminating.

The first thing to do is ....
The first thing to do is get rid of any judge who does not understand and follow our Constitution & Bill of Rights. Next, we eliminate 75% of our lawyers by making it impossible for them "to make a killing", suing everyone for everything! For example, fine them big time for frivolous law suits, limit their fees for "free" law suits, and throw a number of them in jail for their unwarranted & unacceptable actions. Or alternative, put all lawyers and judges in a large lake of sharks, and let those who survive work! Ha!!

All Legal American Citizens

'Every Legal' American Citizen should enjoy the same 'Rights' and 'Protections' delineated in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights - no more - no less.

Equal rights and protection under the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights is based on 'zero sum' theory.

One of the things I learned in Game Theory was that 'zero sum' is an interaction in which one participant's gains result only from another's equivalent losses.

When Liberals and Democrats (collectivists) institute their solutions like 'Affirmative Action' or 'Special Homosexual Rights', the rights they give to the 'collectivist group' in favor, results in taking rights from others who are in dis-favor.

The rights Americans have, is predicated on the inalienable rights granted by the Creator - God.

NOT predicated upon rights that can be granted and then taken away by whatever political group happens to be in power at a given time.

The Liberals and Democrats believe that "moral equivalence" promotes justice and the well being of the American Citizen and displays the Liberal "moral superiority" over Conservatives.

Freedom in America cannot exist if a 'Collectivist Group' have SPECIAL RIGHTS, or SPECIAL PROTECTIONS.

Someone pointed out yesterday that 'Life is Difficult' and there is NO such thing as a 'Level Playing Field' for everyone.

To ensure the only real 'Hope' the American Citizen has in equal opportunity, is for each of us to refuse any Right or Privilege that everyone else does not have.

Solving Computer Software Problems

I worked the last 15 or so years before retirement as a 'Problem Solver', "Fixing" software issues for my clients.

My contract that I required before working contained a clause that troubled some.

The clause stated that at any time the client could break the contract, by simply informing me that my services were no longer needed and only pay me for the work up until that point.

The contract also stated that I could break the contract at anytime by simply informing the client, I no longer wanted to work for them.

Many clients kept me on retainer for 10 years or longer and many used me numerous times.

I felt if I wasn't producing value for the client, I did NOT want to remain working for them - I felt if they were NOT treating me fairly, I did NOT want to remain working for them.

The work relationship in my mind, should be based on everyone wins.

Inferiority
What is really feared by liberals, and even by many conservatives, is that if high standards in intellectual testing are upheld across all racial lines, blacks will largely, inevitably remain as a permanent underclass, even more than they already are.

This result will give support to the findings of "The Bell Curve"; that blacks are mainly, albeit not exclusively, intellectually inferior in development relative to whites, asians, and so on. We cannot have that(the overall effort of the last few decades has been, after all, to "lift them up")!

Such a situation of widespread acknowledgement and social stratification along racial lines (to an even more dramatic and pronounced degree than already exists now) would point to the reason why white Westerners originally exploited sub-Saharan blacks for slave labor in the first place: Their drastically pronounced lack of civilized development compared to Europeans is what prompted said exploiters to consider them rather less than human, and to deal in them as beasts of burden.

Inferiority, #2

To allow any factual situation that admits evidence of a marked difference in intrinsic developmental worth, in civilized character, would somewhat legitimize the historic relationship of whites to blacks in terms of master and servant.

Such rational explanations of Western Civilization are anathema to the liberal, and even to the squeamishly politically-correct conservative who takes pains to avoid being labelled as a racist.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with so-called "racism" as long as one advocates equality in basic rights--not outcomes nor even opportunities--because nowhere can I find a legitimate claim that anyone has the basic right not to be discriminated against for any reason whatsoever. The basic right of freedom of association says that I can exclude anyone for any reason, or none, if I simply find them unpleasant to me.

The right of freedom of association must trump anyone's claim of a spurious right not to be discriminated against.

Superiority
There seems to be almost none of the same horrific aversion when we sheepishly admit that, genrally, blacks appear to be SUPERIOR in some areas (Sowell points to athletics and entertainment) than other racial groups...so, it is plain to me that we must accept and admit the general inferiority in other areas--even if it causes discomfort. We must stop trying to "lift them up" in the intellectual realm, because it definitely causes more problems than it solves.

Re: Tarmangani
"My question on the larger scope is, "why is the Supreme Court even hearing a case that is not federal in nature"?"

It became federal in nature when the litigants cited the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as the basis for their suit. Sadly, the federal government has stuck their fingers in many, many issues that they have no business involved in.

Scrap Iron and JamesB
Both believe: "Conservatives want equal opportunity, liberals want (or demand) equal outcome." Try asking a white liberal to resign his/her position and give it to a minority. You'll quickly find out they don't want equal outcomes when they're the ones on the short end of equalization. They only like it when someone else is being "equalized."

Also, I do everything I can to maximize my kids' opportunities, not "equalize" them with some mythic lowest common denominator. I say there should be no barriers, and let everyone stand or fall on their merits, with any and all voluntary help and cooperation welcomed.

America has created the Paper Curtain.
The old Soviet Union resided behind the infamous Iron Curtain. The Chinese were said to reside behind the Bamboo Curtain. Supposedly Cubans lived behind the Sugar Cane Curtain?

But the USA has been evolved by the lawyers into the nation of the Paper (nowadays the virtual words) Curtain. Lawyers are to this country nearly what the Communist parties were, and are, to the communist countries - the elitist group who had the final say (words) in any government decision. Judges are almost 100% all lawyers; federal congress critters are mostly lawyers (certainly they all hire lawyers to "advise" ,i.e. tell them, what is proper); even at the local level, aren't a majority of elected officials, judges, and executives of government lawyers?

And what is a lawyer's product? - It's WORDS! The more words they produce, the more time they spend on a project, the more $$$$$ they can charge. So, of course, it is important for lawyers to live in their virtual "grey area" world where more words are needed to "define" the few words that really mean anything: THE ESSENCE AND TRUTH OF THE LAW. Unless the lawyers can obfuscate the simple truth with billions of words, they would be needless and useless. Most would be out of a job (now that would be nearly a Utopia)!

Dr. Sowell
a light reply to this threat, Thank you! you give us a perspective of racial balance that is truly amazing to analize. I realize it's most unconventional but don't be surprise if someday you see a blond, american latina run towards you and give you a hug of true appreciation for your brilliance. May God keep you safe we need humans like you on this earth.


Don in VA
Do you also believe that whites are inferior to Asians, as Asians generally score higher than whites academically? Or are you just a white supremacist posing as a conservative?

Western civilization reached its zenith due to the influence of Christianity and the good old "Puritan" work ethic. There is only one race, the human race, and any group can achieve if they work hard and maximize their opportunities.

Dr. Sowell
This issue will never go away. There is to much political hay to make of it. As always sir great column, and wisdom.
Kirk

Don and Andrea
While perhaps well-meaning, the problem is that you're both hung up on classifying people in terms of abstract racial groups. We need to look at people as individuals and drop the pseudo-scientific racial nonsense.

Grouping people as "blacks" or "whites" is just an abstract mental categorization. You could categorize them by shoe size if you want. Doing so doesn't change the specific attributes of any individual. Individuals vary far more in their intelligence, honesty, work habits, etc. than "races." For example, while blacks may be on average better basketball players than whites, that tells you nothing about the basketball abilities of any two actual individuals, say Larry Bird and Gary Coleman.

Retired Geek
"I felt if I wasn't producing value for the client, I did NOT want to remain working for them - I felt if they were NOT treating me fairly, I did NOT want to remain working for them."

Your idea of what employment should be is a lesson for our lawyer ridden litigious society. If you're lucky, nobody will sue you for stating it.

Andrea and Tacitus X
Andrea makes the mistake of thinking that I'd shrink from admitting the relative intellectual superiority and work ethic of Northern Asians to whites. I don't--that's the whole point! The point is to acknowledge reality, not, as Dr. Sowell's title implies, to spin a tangled web of politically-correct deceit.

Tacitus X's mistake is to pretend that heuristics based on racial categories is not inevitable in many situations.

Sad but true
The decision in the New Haven case by the Supreme Court illustrates the makeup of the country as a whole. We have roughly half of the court leaning one way and the othr half, give or take one, leaning the other.

It's not in just this case, but in most cases that we see a vote on the court of 5-4, indicating that nearly one half of the court does not understand and/or respect the Constitution.

Equally, we can look at the popular votes in recent elections as an indicator of what the general population feels, and the split is about equal to that of the Supremes; half on one side and half, give or take a few, on the other.

East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet. It's time for secession!
http://www.texasnationalist.com

Promising to improve the lot of the poor
has become the bread and butter of the political left, who wield that claim as a vote=getting battle-axe. But rather than raising the poor, liberalism's approach creates government dependency and continued poverty
In that regard, Michael Steele needs to re-invent conservative communication--get out there with charts and facts and a pointer, ala Ross Perot. One scarcely hears a peep over the fact that Democrats killed the charter school system in Wash DC (at the behest of the teachers union)---a program that was producing near marvelous results at half the cost. That should be a drum-beat talking point for conservative candidates.
And since 80 percent of American's are said to believe in God, why do conservatives quiver, rather than point to liberalism's antagonism toward the morality of our ancestors. THe inner city will remain inner city until the 70 percent out-of-wedlock birthrate is addressed.
One gets the feeling that some of those claiming to be saviors of the poor are profiting by keeping them down==and they know it.

Cuban Pete
There's more to it than what you say. The Feds passed a law requiring the gubmint to pay legal fees for plaintiffs in Civil Rights cases. I may be way off, but the phrase Title 1240 sounds familiar. Maybe one of our resident JDs can amplify/correct me. I do remember one of Rodney King's lawyers billing the court $600/hr for 3 hrs to take King to a friend's birthday party.

Firefighters
The Supreme Court ruling has been well discussed here. But I find another aspect of the job of firefighters intriguing. One of the higher scoring firefighters actually stated he quit his second job so he could study for the exam. And others remarked they were trying for the promotion to increase their pay and pension benefits--no indication the promotion would lead to higher responsibilities.

I'm not overly concerned with the fairness of the tests, I'm concerned with the taxes I'm forced to pay to support the firemen. The firemen's unions rule the communities that hire them. Firefighters have a Part-time job (3 days on--four days off)with much of the time spent sleeping, eating, and playing games (have you ever been to a fire station and observed the pool tables, the gourmet kitchen, the video games, etc.) They are paid exceptionally well--in my community salaries and benefits exceed $100,000 for most, and the majority of their runs are to sit around and block traffic at minor traffic accidents or go to the nursing homes to transport the aged to a hospital. If a building is buring, by the time the blaze is extinguished the water damage has ruined the structure. Do these duties require the payment of six figure salaries?

I believe the old time notion of volunteer firemen would serve most communities well, supplemented by a few professionals. But few people are willing to express this sentiment for fear of union retaliation.

This argument can be extended to the teacher's unions as well. The bloated staffing, annual raises based simply on longevity, and retirment at age 52 with full benefits need to be addressed. Like the excessive stimulus spending, these excesses will catch up with us and unless tackled will continue to undermine our standard of living.

vamtns41
You've obviously not heard the lawyer joke re: sharks or you would realize that your solution, "put all lawyers and judges in a large lake of sharks, and let those who survive work!" would NOT work.

If the joke is based on reality, the wrong lawyers would survive the sharks. Why? Professional courtesy.

Mortgages
Before the government started mucking around in this business, the approval rates were different, but the default rates were the same. The underwriters were doing their jobs well - they are not given the race of the borrower.

‘Affirmative Action’ Fraud
“As the remedy rationale for racial preferences has become more obviously untenable, its proponents have increasingly relied on the argument that it provides a needed ‘diversity.’ Selection by race, however, provides ‘diversity’ in nothing but race. The many arguments once offered for racially preferential admission to institutions of higher education – biased tests, remedy, diversity, role models, etc. – have more recently come down to a single one: ‘WE CAN’T HAVE’ (i.e., it is NOT POLITICALLY FEASIBLE to have) ‘AN ALL WHITE INSTITUTION.’”

“The ‘Affirmative Action’ Fraud” – Graglia, Lino A., Professor of Constitutional Law, University of Texas School of Law


"affirmative action" as "quota"
I find it ironic that when it comes to sports, ability is the only requirement. Sports are GAMES. In the whole scheme of things, they're little more than entertainment. Society's structure and success do not depend on the quality of these GAMES.

When it comes to education, business, medicine, etc., however, "diversity" is all that matters, with the proper representation of all races (quotas). So insane and counterproductive that only Congress could develop these rules.

The downside (in addition to Dr. Sowell's point that those who compete on a level playing field in college are more likely to succeed than those who are, for whatever reason, intellectually inferior to others at that college) is that it is impossible NOT to look at a successful black person and assume he's most likely "successful" because of affirmative action. Therefore, I (and, as I understand it, many blacks) would be reluctant to choose a black doctor, lawyer, or even accountant if a white were available. If all outcomes were based on merit, not quotas, one could assume equal competence of those who have succeeded in their chosen profession.

So far, Congress has not found a way to force each citizen to make their choices based on diversity. I'm sure they're working on that.

Excelling in performance
I note that athletics and entertainment are areas that reward talent and hard work. Many blacks have shown they are willing to work hard enough to overcome adversity and attain proficiency, while most whites will not.

Jackson and Sharpton have attained their fame and proficiency at money grubbing by exploiting both whites and blacks, and most of us hold them in contempt, while we admire Oprah and the blacks in whatever area who excel through honest effort. Dr. Sowell, Dr. Bill Cosby, and Dr. Walter Williams come to mind.

Those who do not excel have shown they are not willing to create the circumstances in which they can succeed. Those circumstances do not just happen, for anyone. Highly privileged whites fail frequently, for the same reasons. They just don't get the publicity.


Don's "heuristics"
Don says "Tacitus X's mistake is to pretend that heuristics based on racial categories is not inevitable in many situations."

There's nothing inevitable about it. To the contrary, your proposed "heuristics" are futile because individuals vary far more than races do, so categorizing people by perceived race is essentially an exercise is self-deception. Purely as a matter of logic, a Fallacy of Accident is committed when a general rule is applied to a particular case whose circumstances make the rule inapplicable. It is the fallacy made when one goes from the general to the specific.

Further, there is no such thing as a pure race - we are all mixed. 75% of Whites and 60% of Asians have a Negroid chromosome [Alu].

Lawyer and Judge Bashing
If I should criticize the views of pro-business economists such as Dr. Sowell, all of you would rightly deride my lack of qualifications. All of you cheer, however, as Dr. Sowell, who has no clue about what actually happens in our courts, repeatedly bashes lawyers and judges, blaming us for various societal ills.

The problem with you knee-jerk reactionaries is that all you want is support for your fixed and unchangeable opinions. Right-wing pundits like Dr. Sowell encourage you to hate empathetic lawyers and judges who might try to level the playing field where you ordinary folks compete with his real friends, the rich and powerful.

Prejudice Exists in The Courts
It would be wonderful to wake up and believe that all judges and lawyers aren't prejudice or even police officers, but that's not true. Statistics prove otherwise. The truth is that every time a person of a different race or appearance or ethnicity enters into the arena of a higher power then the focus becomes their race or their ethnicity and until that changes and American focus on their qualifications and talk about their successes if running for office or the truth or innocence or guilt in a courtroom then nothing will change. People of other races or ethnicities even though American citizens will always be treated as if they've been given a special award as an act of kindness to make the rest feel good. Americans shouldn't allow the government and media to divide the races and ethnicities of Americans because they are then dividing a country and putting specific people into specific boxes with specific labels. Why should anyone be called in America "a person of color" as if they had a paint brush stroked across their bodies -

Counting
Perhaps the court should consider that counting the numbers of blacks, whites, Asians, etc., is itself discriminatory since it's aim is to give someon preference.

Hey Mike from TX
Are you a lawyer? An economist? A conservative? What right do you have adressing people you don't even understand? Go back into your troll hole.

Tacitus X supports my argument...
(even though he doesn't mean to!)...that there is no real right not to be discriminated against, seeing as he denies that racial categories exist...so if I decline to hire a black person because of their race, Tacitus would assume that what the left would claim is an economic injury never even occurred.

The "playing field" delusion
Where and when has this imaginary "level playing field" EVER existed?

Or, perhaps a better question is, if everything is in fact done to assure such a concept, yet outcomes remain lopsided in certain areas, will liberals ever simply admit that any given "player" or "team" has simply been outmatched, or fairly beaten, trounced, based on performance?

Taking the liberals logic to task...
Has anyone done a "disparate impact" study of professional sport teams??? NFL team rosters are 65% black and NBA Rosters are 70% black. According to liberal ideology, that is an OUTRAGE !!!!!!!
We should not be taking away the opportunties of whites/asians/hispanics, from being millionaires. I suggest that each team reorder its roster to properly reflect the racial makeup of the united states.

Yes ignore
Yes, ignore the state's appropriation of all private property without compensation (a taking) for the purposes of promoting a racial employment political agenda under penalty of financial ruin and death if you resist and instead debate what is or isn't discrimination, just completely forget about private property rights and the Constitution.

Discrimination with your own property (including your business) used to come with property "ownership", choosing the use of your property including whom you employ was a right, if somebody (including the state) wanted to dictate whom you hired they had to buy your business-at free market prices & take the risks with their dime.

As far as the state acting to prevent discrimination in state owned businesses, they have that right but they also have a fiduciary obligation to buy the best employees for the least money on behalf of the taxpayer something they've sought to avoid since this act was passed.

In fact they'd done everything in their power to thrwart competition in public employment and appropriated all public entities to promote their racist political agenda.

THE PROBLEM IS SIMPLE
Those who wrote the constitution did not anticipate a country with 100's of millions of people and thousands of courts. Also, the life expectancy was in the mid forties. If a man lived past 55 he had a reasonable chance to make it to 68 or 70. Living into high eighties or low nineties was VERY VERY uncommon and if people did live that long poor health both mental and physical kept them from doing much. All this combined to the idea of serving for life and how we remove federal judges -- exactly the same procedure as for removing a president. Both need to changed and changed quickly. a twenty year term for judges is PLENTY to keep them from political pressure and longer than they were expected to serve with a "life" appointment in 1790.

Greg - Who am I?
I'm a 42-year lawyer, not an economist, and a moderate conservative. I have the same right to criticize reactionaries that I know only from their posts that they have to tell me to go back to my "troll hole."

And I know working class Republicans very well, because I meet at least one per week who desperately needs my help after being thrown out of work like a worn-out part by one of Dr. Sowell's corporate buddies.
Let me know when that happens to you, and I will post a link to empathetic lawyers in your area.

tarmangani and pbj
The federal government and thus SCOTUS involve themselves in state matters under a twisted misconstruction of the unconstitutionally ratified 14th amendment. Without going into the poor legal reasoning by Lincoln that saw the union as legally binding on states and not allowing for secession, the US constitution guarantees to every state a republican(representative) form of government. This was denied to the states that would not ratify the 14th, and they were forced to have representatives that were imposed upon them from other states/the north. On this basis alone the 14th has no legal standing.
Anyway, even allowing that the 14th does hold, the way that it is taught is that congress may legislate for the states. However, the language only allows for passing legislation in specific instances of A STATE passing discriminatory laws. The language to give Congress such power was actually debated and rejected(see February 26th, 1866 in the congressional debates for an example of the language being considered). Not only that, the 39th Congress in light of the Taney court did not trust SCOTUS at that time, thus section 5 granting CONGRESS the remedying power.
To conclude, merely more usurpation by those ENTRUSTED, not owning, the power to govern in this country.

mike from TX and fixed and unchangeable
Well, Mike as there truths that are fixed and unchangeable, the wise and knowing will have "opinions" that are fixed and unchangeable. If you have trouble understanding this, God help you.

Lenard, good hearing from you again!
Always a pleasure to be challenged by a thoughtful critic. Some non-political things are fixed and unchangeable, and I pray everyday for God's help to recognize them.

Don answered
Don claims there is no right not to be discriminated against because real racial categories don't exist...so if Don declines to hire a black person because of their perceived race, no economic injury occurred.

The economic injury would occur regardless of the truth or falsity of your racial perceptions. Think about it: would anyone be similarly excused from murder on the grounds it was motivated by a false racist belief?

A Loss of Common Sense
Liberals and other brain dead leftist never acknowledge the fact that the reason many blacks fail to do substantially better on these "standardized" tests is the fact that during their years of public education these blacks have steadfastly refused to "buckle down" and study to the same degree of Caucasians and especially Asians. Too many blacks and those of a spanish heritage choose "hanging out" on street corners or indulging in other non-productive activities. Being seen as academically inclined or willing to to open the books and apply themselves is cause for ridicule, isolation and even intimidation in these neighborhoods. It is a sad commentary on this nation that choosing to apply one's self to academic pursuits is justification for such treatment. But, the actions and efforts of liberals and other leftists give those who practice such discrimination reason to continue on.

Tacitus X
Nice liberal argument. Typical false logic. In order for there to have been economic injury, something would have to be taken that the person had. As the person did not have the job, there is no injury.Even then the job is always at the pleasure of the employer, and never at any time is there property being taken away if the person was fired.
In truth and in fact, to force a person to hire someone is to take from that one, both his liberty(to decide for oneself how to live as long as "no pocket is picked, or leg is broken") and his property(no longer is the person the owner, but the government and applicant through de facto seizure).

Wondering again--
After reading the post #51 by Balanced-Mind, many friends and I have wondered also why some athletes (BB Players) of the caucasian persuasion haven't sued to have some affirmative action group place them on an NBA team as to have an equal racial mix.
Well, we all know that in sports the tryouts occur and the coaches select the very best players they can put on the floor or field at any one time. So it comes down to the old addage that "you can signify, but can you qualify".
I think we all want those with the best qualified abilities to represent all areas of professions. No to quota factors.

More On The US Ponzi Scheme
I detested Bush's bailouts and TARP I. I was vehemently against Obama's Stimulus I, TARP II his bailouts, and his takeovers. Now, they are talking about Stimulus II.

Unemployment was not supposed to go over 8%, but it is currently 9.5% and rising.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."


When the Socialist, Sen. Bernie Sanders, and Republican, Sen. Jim DeMint tried to introduce the Senate version of Ron Paul's failed bill in the House to audit the Federal Reserve, they were both denied even the right to speak. The bill was voted down on in a procedural vote.

Got that? A Socialist and a Republican.

What does the Obama Administration not want us to see?

We know more about the CIA, which is Federal Agency, than we do about the Federal Reserve, which is a private corporation.

Mike, TX - Who Am I?

I have two degrees from Harvard (Economics & Finance), a Juris Doctorate from Georgetown, and a Masters in Economics from the London School of Economics.

I speak 5 languages.

I have lived in the UK and in France, but visited many, many more countries, including Russia and China.

I am a fiscally-conservative, Constitutionalist without party affiliation.

I have sat as an ad hoc judge.

I detest the Federal Government, but will cede the ennumerated powers in the Constitution, including the Military.

I want to pay State taxes and have the individual States pay a small percentage to DC.

I do not want Federal money and expect the Feds to obey the Posse Comitatus Act.

Abolish the Federal Reserve, repeal both the 16th and 17th Amendments, and never, ever repeal the 22nd Amendment - We do not need a King in the US.

Thomal Sowell / Gerald Celente 2012.

Now, that's a biracial duo with Trends that I could love.

Mike/TX and Tacitus X
Mike says he is a "moderate conservative" and a lawyer, but somehow he can't understand that corporations must lay people off when recession hits! I guess he thinks employees should just be kept on the payroll regardless of whether there's actual sales revenue to pay them, as with the UAW "job banks" that helped bust the automakers...

Tacitus is the one who claims racial categories don't really exist, not me. I merely made a point about his beliefs that he apparently is unable to comprehend, and I won't belabor it nor cast pearls before swine.

On Inferiority 1

Don Location: VA
Reply # 40
Date: Jul 8, 2009 - 9:34 AM EST
Inferiority
What is really feared by liberals, and even by many conservatives, is that if high standards in intellectual testing are upheld across all racial lines, blacks will largely, inevitably remain as a permanent underclass, even more than they already are.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

In fact, the truth of the matter is that it is exactly the opposite.

What is feared by liberals is that if high standards in intellectual testing are upheld across all racial lines, blacks will learn to adapt as they always have (and continue to do) as they learn the real meaning of what, in Obama’s case was empty rhetoric: “Yes we can.”

Liberals are the ones who need for blacks to remain a permanent underclass in order to validate their policies of “social engineering.” Socialism’s raison de etré is based in the notion of “underclassness.”

It is the covert racism of condescending liberal left that maintains the false notion that the failure of us as black citizens to rise above our self-fulfilling prophecy of low academic achievement , low morality, and base community standards, is the result of some inequity in the treatment of black people. Even where that social inequity has been sufficiently corrected by social policy, the liberal or statist will always take refuge in the myth of racial inferiority.

Mike - Tx standard Liberal bag of tricks
where you ordinary folks compete with his real friends, the rich and powerful.
Way to go Mike - When a standard argument will not do, divide and conquer. Not all of us have been trained to hate another person, because of the amount of income that person currently produces. Nice try, though!

On Inferiority 2

What is troubling to me is how pervasively embedded is the notion, which is constantly being drilled into the collective psyche of American society, that black Americans are somehow handicapped, or worse, incapable of achieving success in various areas of society; this insistence that we, as black people, are somehow incapable of achieving academic success in the classroom; that reading is too hard, speaking proper English is too hard, and standardized tests are absolutely too hard for us to learn to do well on.

These myths have become endemic in our community. This argument, it seems, over the past thirty-five plus years has metastasized into a permanent plank in the Democrat Party's presidential election campaign platform.

The notion that we remain such a racist society and that black people are so intellectually challenged (and therefore, racially inferior) that our black children can't even learn their ABCs like other folk's kids is an insult and does more to support and cement racist attitudes against blacks than it ever will do to engender anything close to "affirming" us a social equals.

Democrats, liberals, the "politically correct", and "enlightened" media pundits have been race-baiting ever since I can remember, and that they are still able to be effective at it, even as we begin the twenty-first century, is a cause of great consternation for me.

Ever willing to offer an excuse for the failure of black children to achieve at the same academic levels as other groups of students, they continue to promise government intervention and assistance in exchange for the African-American vote.

On Inferiority 3

Democrat candidates and legislators are all too eager to assume the mantle of being regarded as the voice of the "down-trodden".

Countless liberal Democrats, with the blessings of many in the African-American community, persist in helping to perpetuate the notion that blacks are somehow at a disadvantage to compete and that we remain in need of perpetual assistance in the way of lowering test requirements, etc.

The wholesale acceptance of this notion in American society, especially when it is so enthusiastically embraced by activists in the black community and by well-intentioned, if condescending, liberals, is in itself, largely responsible for our ongoing failure to assimilate into mainstream society.

If we, as members of this society, want to see true "affirmative action", it is time for us to take the action of affirming ourselves and our ability to succeed; rejecting this self-fulfilling notion of disability based on race, and yes, racism.

A major proponent of the dumbing-down of college entrance exams is an organization based in Cambridge, Massachusetts: Fair Test: The National Center for Fair & Open Testing. In answering its own question: "How Is The ACT Biased?" It uses as one example:

"Biased language: Idiomatic terms such as "ball and chain" (to indicate a married partner) and "straight out of the horse's mouth" may not be familiar to many test takers, particularly those whose first language isn't English, causing them to choose wrong answers."

To quote a phrase recently coined by Hillary Clinton, while insinuating that America's top Army general in Iraq was a liar: "It would take a willing suspension of disbelief" to accept this as the reason for poor African-American performance on college entrance exams.

On Inferiority 4

According to 2006 statistics posted on the website: http://www.insidehighered.com , African-American students, as a group, scored significantly lower in every category, on both the ACT and SAT, than did students of every other racial or ethnic group, including: Whites, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, and American Indians.

Even though our first and only language is English, African-American students scored lower than Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, other Hispanics and American Indians on both tests in Critical Reading and Writing on the SAT, and, English and Reading on the ACT.

African-American students, as a group, came in dead last in every category of testing on both tests.

Perhaps our students would fare better if these tests were prepared using "Ebonics" or "Gangsta' Rap" idioms.

Every problem, including black unemployment, education, rampant drug and alcohol abuse, crime, poverty, and an epidemic of syphilis and AIDS seems to have one answer, according to our so-called leaders and their Democrat heroes; more government entitlements, more government intervention, and more government spending on welfare programs.

In this mindset, it must be assumed that black lives cannot be improved by our asserting our individual freedom and taking on personal responsibility.

Ascribing to the neo-slavery that is a product of the entitlement, and victim, mentality, we have unwittingly embraced a destructive and racially inferior stereotypical image of ourselves for these past several decades.

Rather than continue in the ethical and legitimate use of Affirmative action, which put forth the ideal that I can do the work if given a chance, we have adopted a bastardized version which says: "I can't do it, so lower the standards."

On Inferiority 5

Our liberal arts colleges and universities, aided by such individuals as William Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn and others of their ilk, have been indoctrinating our sons and daughters into policies which constantly bombard them with the notion of the failure to attain success in a capitalist society, such as ours, as to have nothing to do with the individual's poor choices and failure to avail his or herself of the opportunities that freedom and free-market capitalism only makes possible; but that the free-market competitive system of governance, itself, is structured in such a way as to cheat them of the lifestyle to which they are entitled.

This entitlement mentality has been carefully nurtured and tested, first with the black community over the past 40+ years, and has proven to be effective in coercing an entire segment of the population [black people] to accept this notion of themselves as victims of a structural barrier to their ever having a chance to become unghettoized under their own volition and without the largess of the Democrat Party system of a social welfare state.

As a result of their allowing themselves to “religiously” support the notion that the Democrat Party view that black Americans are restricted in their achievement of the “American Dream” by a slavery-induced pathological retardation of their ability to succeed, Democrats have themselves become slaves of their own ideology that perpetuates and necessitates the continuing enslavement of blacks to a reliance on victimhood and the welfare state to further the cause of Party power.

On Inferiority 6

Anyone who ascribes to this ridiculous vain and vapid posturing which holds forth the notion that one race of people is inherent and biologically superior to another is a racist and is motivated by and ascribes to some source contrary to anything that biological science would ever support.

Ignorant, poor, and angry blacks (whipped into a constant frenzy of moralistic outrage by the likes of Wright, Sharpton, and Jackson, et al.) supplies the socialists with their most loyal voting bloc. They recognize the benefit of blacks as “angry, mostly self-marginalized societal outliers.

Building upon the success of this experiment in population control and political power, the Democrats took it to the next level in 2007-2008 by elevating what they knew was a community organizer schooled in the Marxist social philosophy of Conflict Theory, to unleash their goal of the destruction of capitalism in the U.S. and to insure the ascension of a Democrat-run socialist-collectivist government-as-god type of new world order.

Anyone that takes the time to look around him and to observe the academic achievements made by the many black students who avail themselves of the educational opportunities at their disposal will see that many black students do not suffer from any deficiency of the intellect necessary to excel at any subject, without the aid of some lowering the standards required of any other race of student.

What are people like Martin Luther King, Jr., Condoleeza Rice, Thomas Sowell, Rev. Harry Jackson, or Star Parker?

Freaks of nature?

On Inferiority 7

Has anyone noticed that the more we see intelligent black children and adults gain the respect of all Americans for their intellectual achievements, the more stridently the race hustlers continued to drag out the idea that nothing has been achieved and that blacks are inherently unable to pass the same academic tests as other races or ethnicities?

How can anyone continue to hold onto such a racist attitude and belief when all facts point to just the opposite conclusion?

No reasonable or intelligent person could be so blind.

No. Liberals don’t have a fear that if high standards in intellectual testing are upheld across all racial lines, blacks will largely, inevitably remain as a permanent underclass—quite the contrary.

What liberals fear is that blacks AND whites will wake up to the truth and realize that too many Condoleeza Rices, Thomas Sowells, and Walter E. Williams’ exist to support this asinine and racist argument. And their biggest fear is that blacks will be required to wake up, straighten up, and find it within their own personal interests and responsibilities to get with the program, and leave the plantation once and for all! No more supported excuses of disability based on race.

Once that happens, they will lose one of the permanent aces in their deck of political manipulation: black victimhood and the myth of racial intellectual inferiority.

As history has already shown us (and is proving to be the case daily), blacks can (and will) make the grade—when they have found that it is to their advantage to do so.

There is no reason for blacks to be a permanent underclass because of some “supposed” racial inability or intellectual disability. If blacks are to remain a permanent underclass it will be because it serves the purposes of those who insist upon their remaining so.

Quote from Dr Sowell several years ago

"One of the schools I researched years ago that impressed me the most -- in fact, moved me to the verge of tears -- was a ghetto school in a run-down building, located in a neighborhood that caused a friend to say that I was "brave" -- he probably meant foolhardy -- to park a car on the street there.

The children in that school scored above the national average on tests. In their classrooms, they spoke the King's English, behaved like little ladies and gentlemen, and made thoughtful answers to the questions they were asked. Yet these kids came from poor homes, often broken homes, and many were on welfare.

You can't buy that quality of education for any amount of money.

It has to be created by people who have their priorities straight. Don't tell me it can't be done when I have seen it done with my own eyes."

Dr Thomas Sowell

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell092503.asp

A Tangled Web in the Sewer
The SC is no longer a friend or the upholder of the Constitution. These coddled loafers are bereft of all intestinal fortitude, cherry pick the easy cases, and even get those rulings wrong more often than not. When more demented liberal justices (WHAT JUSTICE?!?) are appointed it will get worse, much worse. Welcome to hell.

Justice, rights in general, and almost all proven and true conservative principles and values are being up-ended with really convoluted, bizarre rationale, much in direct violation of Nature's basic, immutable laws and longstanding common sense. This is typical of a civilization in decline as copiously documented in history.

Sotomayor on the Ricci case: And on her statements about the inherent differences between groups, and the superior wisdom she believes her Latina physiology, culture and background grant her over a white male judge. They perfectly reflect the Democrats' enthrallment with identity politics, which assigns free citizens to ethnic and racial groups possessing a hierarchy of wisdom and entitled to a hierarchy of claims upon society. Charles Krauthammer

On Inferiority 8

Ascribing to the neo-slavery that is a product of the entitlement, and victim, mentality, we have unwittingly embraced a destructive and racially inferior stereotypical image of ourselves for these past several decades.

I’m black. And blacker than most blacks. I'll put my intellectual abilities on a par that will enable me to compete academically on an equal level with anyone. I don't care what your color or your economic background is.

There ain't a white man (or any other race of man or woman) that God has blessed with an intellect superior to the one he blessed my black @$$ with.

That doesn't mean that every person has the same level of smarts; but it does mean that smarts don't come because of skin color.

I have no doubt that were I to put the hard work necessary to achieve it I could be a rocket scientist were that my choice, and I don’t need some kind of “black man” oriented examinations to “level” the playing field.

Rather than continue in the ethical and legitimate use of Affirmative action, which put forth the ideal that I can do the work if given a chance, we have adopted a bastardized version which says: "I can't do it, so lower the standards."

To quote from Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas' recently published autobiographical book, My Grandfather's Son, a statement he recalled his grandfather saying to him when he was a young black student, and one we would be better served in repeating to our own children: "I can't is dead; I know 'cause I helped bury him."

Born equal,
but unequal from that moment on. We offer a free public education from K-12 in hopes that individuals willing to apply themselves will work to improve their station in life. Teachers do NOT prevent people from learning, although I admit some teachers are better than others. Not all lawyers, generals or doctors were at the head of their class either. Any kid who turns off his iPod and cell phone long enough to pay attention should know the score. Some people will always out achieve others, that's the way it is. Equal protection does NOT mean favor one group over another no matter the percieved or real injustices suffered bny the previous generations. Turn off the damn TV folks, read a book, work at a menial job until something better comes along, advance, be excellent and stop worrying about political correctness. A smart business man is interested in profit. If green martians prove to be more productive workers than you, that's who will get hired. Listen to Dr. Sowell, he is talking to YOU.

To tacitus X
Thank you, I think. Look, I know I;m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm pretty sure you gave me (and JamesB?) a compliment.

Look at life like bowling. You get to make each shot the way you want to. You have certain rules to follow (stay behind the foul line), but each shot is like a new decision. Hook, straight, weight of ball, etc make your best shot. even the best shot doesn't result in a strike. Sometimes a bad shot gives a strike. But everyone at the alley has the same opportunity to throw a 300. Even if your best shot goes in the gutter, you get another chance, but with the same rules.
Does that make sense? It sure does to me.
Scrap Iron (Houston, TX)

One thing is Certain about Races

Every race has its share of Genius, those below normal and the rest is somewhere in between.

Everyone knows a lot about some things, nothing about some things and a little about everything else.

Few people have a lot of commonsense, a large group has no commonsense, the rest have commonsense from time to time.

Many people can be conned, a few are so honest they cannot be conned, the rest are conned by anyone who tells them what they want to hear.

The Bell Curve
Oncealwaysmarine: Many blacks excel, and are intellectually superior, to most whites or most of any other group--Dr. Sowell is an example, along with the others you mentioned.

That fact doesn't make them "freaks;" it just makes them the highest percentile of their group, the right edge of the lip of their bell curve, and to the right of the main part of the bell of the white group, etc.

If blacks in general truly are equal in intellect notwithstanding what you claim is the cause--Democrat sponsored self-fulfilling defeatism via enabling, and so on--then why oh why is there no example anywhere on Earth of an advanced society of consisting chiefly of blacks?

It's like you're saying that asians would just develop into NBA-level basketball players and jazz musicians if only the societal expectations and so forth were removed...

Why do so many sub-Saharan Africans remain in primitive and even almost prehistoric conditions, if intellectually they have the intrinsic abilities(or at least potential), as you say, to equal those of advanced white/asian societies? Wouldn't they have developed by now??

The Bell Curve #2
BTW, Oncealwaysamarine, I do hope I'm wrong. And that you are right--that blacks do have the real potential to develop.

O M G
I think I just figured out why our government can't get a program designed to "help the poor, downtrodden" people.

If the war on poverty was set up to succeed, then it would be abolished once there was no more poverty. Do you REALLY think a government program (agency and employees) would close? It won't close of the program is SET UP TO FAIL. Our "elected elite" will continue to fund a failure, but never fund something that works.
Wow! Now I'm mad as H$LL again. C'est la vie.

In Re: The Bell Curve 1

Don Location: VA
Reply # 79

The Bell Curve
"...Many blacks excel, and are intellectually superior, to most whites or most of any other group--Dr. Sowell is an example, along with the others you mentioned.

That fact doesn't make them "freaks;" it just makes them the highest percentile of their group, the right edge of the lip of their bell curve, and to the right of the main part of the bell of the white group, etc.

If blacks in general truly are equal in intellect notwithstanding what you claim is the cause...then why oh why is there no example anywhere on Earth of an advanced society of consisting chiefly of blacks?

Why do so many sub-Saharan Africans remain in primitive and even almost prehistoric conditions, if intellectually they have the intrinsic abilities(or at least potential), as you say, to equal those of advanced white/asian societies? Wouldn't they have developed by now??"
_____________________________________________

Good questions. I’m not a cultural anthropologist. Therefore, it is outside my realm of education to answer your question definitively.

However, I would question what to make of the results of the Bell Curve in terms of what they can tell us about "intrinsic" intellectual abilities:

Can the successful development of advanced societies be attributed to a collective "intrinsic" intelligence of all its members?

In other words, are all Germans as intelligent as Bach or Einstein, and therefore, should share equal credit with these individuals for the advancement and uplifting of German society over time?

Or are these geniuses outliers who by the effects of their genius, pulled the rest of their societies up with them, making it possible for the finer bell curve by which the collective intelligence is judged over time?

It would seem to me the case to be more of the latter dynamic rather than can be attributed to the former.

The Bell Curve 2

I think, in the case of black societies particularly those in Africa, that it is more of a social/cultural phenomenon more than one of “intrinsic abilities” that determine whether a society advances. That is my opinion. Even so, there are black professionals (doctors, engineers, architects, and others) that exist in even these societies. Everybody in Africa doesn’t live in a mud hut and wear a loin cloth.
Vietnamese people were considered “primitive” until they started immigrating to America and dancing academic rings around the heads of “superior” white students in Science, Engineering, and Math. Many of them are second generation children of parents who were content, themselves, to live in mud huts and to scratch a living out of working in rice paddies. Forty years ago they were considered by many of the “high bell curve” societies to be nothing more than savages and slope-heads.

What evidence one can extrapolate from “The Bell Curve,” may or may not be scientific proof of “intrinsic ability.” To me, such being used to validate racial superiority is akin to the past use of Eugenics to support slavery on the basis that black people were a biological sub-species of human; as were defined Asians and others.

Whatever the reasons for one group of human beings being more inclined to one type of construction than another—I'll leave this idea of “intrinsic abilities” to those who claim to have more knowledge of what is “intrinsic” in the superiority of one group over another; and what can be attributable to choice or some other opportunity or need.

racism
Amen, amen and AMEN! Tell me would you rather go to a black Doctor who was let into med school with a lower score or a black doctor who earned his place in class from his test scores? Hmmmmm. Honestly if we got rid of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and their ilk maybe people would forget about racism and judges could make better use of their time.

Clear Thinker
Thomas Stowell is a clear-thinker, no spin, and a continual source of education. I wish I had professors like him, but sadly not the case. He is an inspiration. He does not consider color of skin but like MLK, espouses color-blind rights for all.
Thank you for your contribution to our society, our country and all of mankind.

free at last
Indeed, 'what a guy'.............

MLK a Republican
WHAT would MLK think about the liberals of race baiting, genocide, infantcide, abortions, gay marriage, drug abusers, pedophiles, alcoholics of today modern society? Would he have applauded the Supreme Court decision in the Vicci case based on the CRA 1964? Does this mean his dream have came true?

Spud is destroying America
Face it. Hypnotized by the oldest method known --chanting-- mindless idiots have elected someone as PRESIDENT who despises to his very core each and every principle of this country. Before he even took office he tried to sell out our allies through a secret letter to Putin. Had Putin not released it America would never have known. Of course, with the help of 98 percent of the Media hardly anybody knows NOW. This evil traitor must be isolated like a cancer and removed as soon as possible. This isn't just a political difference as in the past. This is someone who intends to destroy us.

Lenin said it, I agree.
"Hanging does not deter the desparate criminal, he accepts the likelihood of this fate. However, with judges it works most astonishingly well."


Misplaced moral priorities
Those who are good to the bad will be bad to the good.

http://robbymoeller.blogspot.com/2009/07/misplaced-moral-pr iorities.html

An impartial observer of US legislative,
judicial and educational institutions might conclude that those Americans of significant black African descent are inherently inferior beings in need of institutional protection from impossibly high educational, employment and social conduct standards.
One would hope this impartial observer would look beyond the surface scum of race-huckstering political manipulation and see that black Americans' dismal statistical scores are largely a result of the killing hand of "kindness" born of unfounded guilt. Collective-minded do-gooders are punishing us all with their insulting affirmative-action, bar-lowering mindset.

Malcom Gladwell
I don't know why it irritates me so when somebody wears their 'most recent books read' list on their proverbial sleeve. Oncealwaysamarine, in your reply #10, 'geniuses' are outliers by definition. Reply #21, 'outcasts' would have been more apt a term than 'outliers'. Geez, maybe I'm just fed up with the term 'outliers' everywhere I look. Sort of like 'paradigm' ten or so years ago. Stop the inane trendiness. Malcom Gladwell isn't so outstanding or original. He is not so 'outlying', except in book sales, perhaps.

Blacks and whites...
...mamacat, you obviously DO care, otherwise, you would not have CAPITALIZED the word "blacks", while not doing the same for "whites". Does that make you a racist? (of course not, I'm kidding).
Ron Reale
realetybytes@yahoo.com
realetybytes.townhall.com

Missed the big issue
without the use of "disparate impact" how do you prove discrimination? Only the very smug or extremely arrogant would have papers saying don't hire or promote based on race. is the Fire protection better in New Haven than in Bridgeport which has managed to have representation of minorities in the ranks and executive positions comparable with city population as a hold.

The real tragedy is that as a nation we provide for no penalty to the parties responsible for discrimination. Example Boston school system guilty of discrimination and offering poorer education to minorities. No person in charge was held liable. No damages were awarded the victims. The only solution the courts could or do impose is to make the guilty change policy.
When we are serious about discrimination this case would have been about officials who couldn't find a qualified minority fire fighters after more than a decade of trying. Instead the city still can't find a qualified minority and they get keep on discriminating without a peanility.
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