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Wednesday, December 17, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Postponing Reality
by Thomas Sowell
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Some of us were raised to believe that reality is inescapable. But that just shows how far behind the times we are. Today, reality is optional. At the very least, it can be postponed.

Kids in school are not learning? Not a problem. Just promote them on to the next grade anyway. Call it "compassion," so as not to hurt their "self-esteem."

Can't meet college admissions standards after they graduate from high school? Denounce those standards as just arbitrary barriers to favor the privileged, and demand that exceptions be made.

Can't do math or science after they are in college? Denounce those courses for their rigidity and insensitivity, and create softer courses that the students can pass to get their degrees.

Once they are out in the real world, people with diplomas and degrees-- but with no real education-- can hit a wall. But by then the day of reckoning has been postponed for 15 or more years. Of course, the reckoning itself can last the rest of their lives.

The current bailout extravaganza is applying the postponement of reality democratically-- to the rich as well as the poor, to the irresponsible as well as to the responsible, to the inefficient as well as to the efficient. It is a triumph of the non-judgmental philosophy that we have heard so much about in high-toned circles.

We are told that the collapse of the Big Three automakers in Detroit would have repercussions across the country, causing mass layoffs among firms that supply the automobile makers with parts, and shutting down automobile dealerships from coast to coast.

A renowned economist of the past, J.A. Schumpeter, used to refer to progress under capitalism as "creative destruction"-- the replacement of businesses that have outlived their usefulness with businesses that carry technological and organizational creativity forward, raising standards of living in the process. Indeed, this is very much like what happened a hundred years ago, when that new technological wonder, the automobile, wreaked havoc on all the forms of transportation built up around horses.

For thousands of years, horses had been the way to go, whether in buggies or royal coaches, whether pulling trolleys in the cities or plows on the farms. People had bet their futures on something with a track record of reliable success going back many centuries.

Were all these people to be left high and dry? What about all the other people who supplied the things used with horses-- oats, saddles, horse shoes and buggies? Wouldn't they all go falling like dominoes when horses were replaced by cars?

Unfortunately for all the good people who had in good faith gone into all the various lines of work revolving around horses, there was no compassionate government to step in with a bailout or a stimulus package.

They had to face reality, right then and right there, without even a postponement.

Who would have thought that those who displaced them would find themselves in a similar situation a hundred years later?

Actually the automobile industry is not nearly in as bad a situation now as the horse-based industries were then. There is no replacement for the automobile anywhere on the horizon. Nor has the public decided to do without cars indefinitely.

While Detroit's Big Three are laying off thousands of workers, Toyota is hiring thousands of workers right here in America, where a substantial share of all our Toyotas are manufactured.

Will this save Detroit or Michigan? No.

Detroit and Michigan have followed classic liberal policies of treating businesses as prey, rather than as assets. They have helped kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. So have the unions. So have managements that have gone along to get along.

Toyota, Honda and other foreign automakers are not heading for Detroit, even though there are lots of experienced automobile workers there. They are avoiding the rust belts and the policies that have made those places rust belts.

A bailout of Detroit's Big Three would be only the latest in the postponements of reality. As for automobile dealers, they can probably sell Toyotas just as easily as they sold Chevvies. And Toyotas will require just as many tires per car, as well as other parts from automobile parts suppliers.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Postponing Reality
As usual, flawless logic with excellent recommendations. Unfortunately, none of the people who need to read it will ever hear of it.

It's too complicated to expect that our leaders in congress would understand that creative destruction is necessary for progress, just a physical death is necessary to the advancement of mankind. We've become too addicted to making sure no one has to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their own actions. Thus, our children never realize the source of their own misery in later life.

Reality
This is precisely why the free market scares so many people....it makes obvious the glaring mistakes made by indiviudlas and businesses and it holds them responsible. The big 3 find themselves paying more to makea care then people are willing to pay for it. Thats a basic free market tenent they apparently dont understand but they expect us, the taxpayers, to bail them out? Not until they have read Dr. Sowell's book "Basic Economics"

Well Said
Excellent article and logic stream. Thank you. You are right - and it is frustrating for those of us who understand to watch what is going on now.

I agree with Sally - the folks who need to hear this most probably won't.

Well Said
Excellent article and logic stream. Thank you. You are right - and it is frustrating for those of us who understand to watch what is going on now.

I agree with Sally - the folks who need to hear this most probably won't.

As usual Dr. Sowell....Well said
You know, if Barak Obama really wanted "change" he would do well to ask Thomas Sowell to join his cabinet. Of course he won't, because he is determined to carry out the social plans of Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorn, Saul Alinsky, and the Communist Party USA.

We're gonna get change like we've never seen before. My only worry is whether or not the sane people who pick of the pieces of the disaster to come will be able to repair what this monumental socialist plan will destroy.

Don't get me started
I've had it up to HERE with these big government bailouts!! What in God's name is happening in this country. Common sense in the DC is simply GONE.

In the final analysis though, it is We The People who have allowed this debacle to come home to roost on our shores. We have continued to re-elect these stupid politicians over and over and OVER again. We have continued to allow more and more and MORE liberal lunacy to prevail at all levels of government - local and federal. And now we look up in horror to what is happening on Capitol Hill. Look in the mirror, people. It's YOU and ME who keep these idiots in power.

The question is: When will the American people finally say "ENOUGH"?!?

Dr. Sowell, you say it so well ... as usual.

God Save America

Postponing reality
You are amusing in your condemnation of bailouts for the auto makers. Where was your righteous indignation when the financial firms were bailed out to the tune of unreported billions? You said in your column that the financial giants should be saved. How hypocritical. The truth is that your idea of running an economy (quasi laissez faire capitalism) is as clueless about preventing and curing recessions as the worst proposals of Karl Marx and his band of know nothing command economy knuckleheads. Neither of you will admit that you don't know how to temper greed and its destructive consequences. The first step, professor, is to stop worshipping individualism at the expense of the rest of us.

RE: Postponing reality
Nice jeremiad, but I wouldn't panic too much. If a bailout is organized properly we could revamp and retool the big three and start building cars for the 21st century. Quick history lesson, Chrysler was bailed out in the 1980's the government got all of its money back and a profit to boot. Not only that but Chrysler by the time it stupidly sold itself out to Daimler Benz had an enormous rainy day cash reserve and it was selling high quality cars for the highest per car profit in the business. IF we lose the Big Three, we will be at the mercy of the car companies of other nations which will happily send their lesser skill jobs here, but keep the engineering and high level jobs at home. I say rescue the Big Three on the toughest possible terms for the benefit of the US taxpayer and long term interests of our country.

Depends on who you ask
Dr. Sowell states in his article: "There is no replacement for the automobile anywhere on the horizon. Nor has the public decided to do without cars indefinitely."

Not according to one Charles Schumer, (D) NY. He has severely chastised the "Big 3" automakers for their insistence on, gasp, continuing to make internal combustion automobiles. Chuckie knows the car business and what the public wants.

JT
Another quick history lesson regarding Chrysler.

Chrysler was able to pay-back its loan because a tariff was imposed on foreign based automakers. This allowed the big 3 to raise their prices by 35%. Any idiot can turn around a company if he can raise his price 35%.

So what happened? Toyota started making more luxurious cars to sell to America. It made them with features we like and with better quality. They had more power and used less gas. They didn't break-down as often as Big 3 cars. They were just better.

Then the set-up plants to build them here.

Do you see Honda, Nissan, and Toyota in Washington with their hands out?

No, because they used the increase in prices to build better cars right here in America. They don't have the union problems the Big 3 has because they are better places to work. They are more productive because they invest in technology and their people.

Kill the big three, and the outcome will be better utilization of capital and better cars made in America by American's. Keep supporting failure, and the inevitable is just put off a bit longer.

You do not owe a living to some auto maker in Detroit. He has to find another way to make a living that is based on his productivity, not his ability to bludgeon management and consumers.

Cheers,

Bloefeld

Compassion=liberalism=bad
Where to begin? First I would blame emaciated budgets before compassion with regards to social promotions in schools there is not enough dough to keep students at their level.
secondly, Lowering admission standards is less a function of being too nice and more of an indication of a poorly functioning education system.

Third while we are talking about education lets talk about your math skills. Since when does lowering union benefits lower the price point of cars???? How about your logic skills...If you are so infuriated by the union wages why are you so silent on the banking industries wages.
Lastly for extra credit on both math and logic how can you be so angry about 15 billion to the auto makers and not 8 TRILLION to the bankers.

Well said JT
We have thrown our money away in the bank bailouts and got nothing in return. Hello, as long as the American homeowners stagger and fail the financial crisis will expand regardless of how much is given to the banks.

The big 3 are worth bailing out, if just to keep jobs and technology advances here at home. Government can require whatever is necessary and it will be done.

When Bill Clinton required homes be provided for all they (GSE's) started a snowball that could not be stopped. Restructure and retool, this just may be an opportunity for both for those who have the wisdom to see it.

Postponing reality .....................
Fred - Postponing reality

Careful your lack of logic, reasoning, and facts are showing! But I bet you do not even see this, or perhaps even care! You are in the following syndrome: "Don't confuse me with any facts, I have already made up my mind!"

Hope you Have A Nice Day! :-)

Talking point for trolls?
Ponder the difference between an industry such as autos, furniture, airplanes, boats, seadoos, snow skis, water skis, electrical generation, erotic dancing, cell phones, ipods, websites, well you get the picture, and banking which supports, finances start ups and expansions of all of the above. Well, perhaps not exotic dancing but, it is an industry that generates a lot of cash. And no, this is not a justification for the first bailout, just a fact.

Fred Fred Fred!!!!
Worshipping individualism at the expense of the rest of us? Are you serious? Any economic formula that rest on anything other than the basic principle that individuals have only one thing in mind when it comes to economic activity and that is me, me, me and once again me is sure to fail.

You can plan your economy around from each according to their ability or all economic activity must be geared to helping the environment or our messiah and great leader will lead us all to prosperity but you will be doomed to failure.

The wealth of nations is based on each individual making all of his economic decisions based on what that person preceives as what is best for him. Government's role should be minimal setting only basic ground rules.

The great state of CA is a perfect example of government gone mad! The public employee unions and their dim Dem slaves in Sacramento have run this state into the sewer. Unemployment nearing 10%, state deficit nearing $15 billion, employers fleeing the state, unbelievable tax increases proposed like a 1 1/2 cent increase in state sales tax.

Indeed CA is a perfect example of a government concerned with no one individual but with all the rest of us. Every special interest can never be told no. Public employee unions get large salaries and even larger benefits, those on welfare must have food, clothing, shelter, medical care and all must meet exacting standards, state inmates must have heart transplants if that is standard medical care, illegal aliens must pay only in state fees for college and be sheltered in our sancuary cities etc.

With a rino governor and a large Dem majority CA is indeed showing the nation what can be achieved with the Dems showing the way.

BTW: Bankers, mortgage brokers, lying loan applicants, Fannie and Freddie executives, Barney Frank, Sen Dodd etal should be in jail for the fraud that was the housing/mortgage bubble in this country.

More Proof Sowell's Right...
The one caveat to normal jurdicial rules is when the Government unconstitutionally interferes.

Take the Madoff Scheme, for instance. In 1999, the Clinton Administration was tipped off about the Ponzi scheme.

What did they do? Oh, the dumb Treasury Department investigated them for all of two minutes, before deciding that they should seek advice from the "expert financial analyst" Madoff on HOW TO AVOID PYRAMID SCHEME AND SECURITY FRAUDS!

For that members of both Administrations, the SEC, Congress and all of the Left's much-lauded regulators should be behind bars. They all were warned, but too dumb to stop Ponzi before he lost all of the investors money. So, they just sat at Madoffs' knee and drooled over his wisdom on how to spot security fraud. Evidently, they learned well from their "Master" because no one identified his financial pyramid until he announced that all of it was gone due to the downturn in the economy.

Be very pissed. The government is paying $51 million dollars EVERY HOUR financing the INTEREST ALONE on the national debt.

Excellent Column Mr. Sowell
We must hurry up and postpone "the big threes'" onset of reality before it's too late. Once they have been saddled w/ the burden of trillions in public largess, they can then get on w/ the business of pooring that down a union thug sewer hole until Americans are ready to strike both sides of that moronic, cowardly, greedy coin.

You can keep your socialist domestic automobile America. As for me, I will only buy cars from capitalists like Japan and Sweden.

Thanks again, leftists of America! What's next, maybe a weenie roast over the smoldering remnants of the Bill of Rights ? Oh yeah, you did that already...

Denying and bending reality
have given way to the redefining of it on a grand scale. When individuals do this, it is called mental illness. When American society does it, its called "fairness".

Academia and Government
Where absolute crazies go to try the ideas that have been demonstrated failures for decades.

If you are so crazy that you can't get into one of those "professions" you join a union.

Those who can, do......

The Latter Days
Reality to progressives is like childbirth to the apprehensive unwed mother. Try as you might, they can't be stopped.

There's no solution. Those imbeciles we've put in office think they have solutions, but we see them fumbling around in the dark, with our money. Fools.

It's all coming down. The economy's collapsing with the weight of over 40 years of mismangement and overspending on communist wealth distribution schemes.

And when the day comes, and it will be soon, it's going to be delicious to watch all these hipster trendoids who've been breast fed all their lives - first by the mothers, then by their nanny state - face some ugly realities. Won't it be so much fun to see them confronted with the word, "No".

Let's see who'll they sue and protest against when currency is obsolete and we're on the barter system, when there's no social safety nets and when we're all at each other's throats and killing each other over our place in line waiting for potable water from government trucks like is done in any other Third World bankrupt crotch of the globe country.

Me? I don't care. All my stuff's paid off, including my house and my M4s with high capacity magazines. And my neighborhood's ready too. We've planned for it and are eager to join with the looters when there's no more bailing to do and it's all gone.


Fred
It's Dr. Sowell.Not Dr. Dre

Where did you say you got that degree in economics?

An Honest Question
I am curious about the fact American carmakers are picking up "legacy" costs of retirees. News reports say that the main difference in labor costs for American cars and Japanese cars is these legacy costs. I'm not sure if the Japanese gov't is paying such benefits to their retirees, but if they are, would you think our gov't should do the same to level the playing field?

The new direction of the GOP
The republic party has been derailed. There is no question about it. Regardless of your opinion on George Bush, his eight years in office have sent the republican party into disarray. We do not have an identity, we do not core values, and subsquently, we do not have a future. SO, I pose the question to all of you. What direction should the GOP take. How should the republican party restore itself. Certainely, it should build itself around a core of conservative principles. But how does the party maintain its conservative values without alienating its wave of younger, socially moderate republicans? Can it continue to count on the Christian belt to carry it to victory? Does its ties to religion push more voters away than it brings in? How will it connect and build support amongst the youngest generation of voters, who recently showed overwhelming support for the democratic party? These are the questions we need to answer before we can even begin to think about 2010. So I challenge you all to answer them. Let the discussions begin.

JD's Handsome Son
Just a little fun aside given the horrors that we are facing with the economics and the nightmares of coming Sociaist state...

"Let's see who'll they sue and protest against when currency is obsolete and we're on the barter system."

I have tons of old Mardi Gras doubloons from my days of riding for your barter system. Any particular Krewe? I will be happy to share them with you. Sort of a Conservative-type of "Spreading the Wealth." When we do it, there is no total Social Justice angle. Just kindness.

Big Three needs a reality check
I'm sure before the Big Three got in so much financial trouble there were signs all over the place. Were these signs ignored or covered up like on Wall Street. Thats why it doesn't make sense to bailout the Big Three automakers if they still have the same people who got them in the trouble their in. Bail them out now and next year, they'll be back for more with a better story on how many people will suffer if they aren't given a bigger bailout. It doesn't matter how many concessions they make, the Big Three and UAW will find a way to work around the concessions. Look whats happening now. UAW is treating the concessions like their negotiating a union contract. UAW hasn't come to terms with the reality they face. They act as if they hold the upper hand.

Tip of the Iceberg....
If you love the effects of unions on our auto industry, just wait until Obama and his crew pass the sadistically named, “Employee Free Choice Act”. Unions have been dying for years, but the libs (absolutely owned by unions) plan to resurrect these cancerous beasts through Hoffa-era Teamster tactics.

The ship’s going down and libs are demanding we punch more holes in the side.

http://www.heritage.org/research/Labor/bg2027.cfm

Sad but true
You are exactly right about the UAW. So the next step, it seems to me, is for GM, Chrysler, and Ford to move their manufacturing to locations out of Michigan - out in the boonies - and start manufacturing their "green" electric cars there with NO unions, just free competition with Toyota etc. There are enough greenies that the UAW will be put in its place if it jeopardizes their environmental dreams. Sick Gore on the UAW in the interest of his "global warming" farce. Maybe two wrongs can make a right!

The audacity of change?
Change is not meant to be applied to the dhimmi world, which, in the case of the big three, that's the UAW world.

Where the private sector has had a choice, its employees have overwhelmingly REJECTED union organization. They have come to realize that unions supplant its own interests for those of the employees as well as employers.

The solution: rig the elections even further in the union's favor by eliminating the secret ballot - allow the union thugs to pressure and intimidate the dissidents openly.

The exception is government at all levels where unionism has been forced upon its employees and enforces mediocracy. Are you happy with your government services?

The same with the UAW and the big three - it has prevented the auto makers from changing to meet the challenges of the market place. The work rules, the forced payments, the rigid benefit structure, etc. all contribute to an hourly wage that is nearly twice that of the competition.

Now, we, the public, are asked to subsidize incompetence and failure the marketplace won't simply because 'crats carry the union's standards and receive all their support.

Is this fair to the taxpayer - or the consumer?

Grow up and face the change - no more bailout 'fixes'.

On Saving Chrysler
This is what happens when you step in and save something with taxpayer dollars. Chrysler should never have been given a loan years ago. It is immaterial that the loan was paid back. A company that should have gone under was allowed to stay in business and now is costing us even more.

Just as rust never sleeps the pressure of the market will never go away. It's effects can be postponed but not avoided. The longer the postponement the worse the effect.

Leaders? / Dictators
In the past I have written to my congressional representatives to express my opinions. In return I received a form letter thanking me for my opinion and stating that their mind is already made up on the issue. Since the election my emails have gone unanswered. It appears to me that my input and ideas are not welcome at all.

Unfair competition
When all the foreign car manufactures make 100% of their parts in America, then we will have equal competition. 90% of the assembly of cars are subcontactor parts. Wheels, tires, alternators, starters, lamps, power steering units, brake system parts, radiators, fans, air conditioners, seats, steering assembly, radio, antenna's, all of that made by subsuppliers. All of those imported for foreign made cars.
Piston rings made by Hastings or Perfect Circle in Indiana, not Japan. Delco is not from Japan, when I buy a car I want to know all of it was made by Americans. Detroit has tried to make small cars, you wanted SUV's. When it costs Detroit 35% more to make "all" the parts here, that's not competition, that's treason against Americans.

“Employee Free Choice Act”
Does anyone think that this style of voting, i.e., with some one with vested interest looking over your shoulder as you vote, will stop with the unions??? Can't you just see people screaming "voter fraud" and saying we need to make sure all elections are "fair, accurate and transparent" and the private ballot disappearing all together??? Too far fetched you say...?

AND HERE I THOUGHT
postponed reality was a case of 'delayed adolescence'. You know, when teenagers think they know everything and are entitled to whatever their little hearts desire. Our society has allowed, in fact fostered, their determination to stay 'fixed' in this 'feel good' stage of life well into their 20's, 30's or beyond, avoiding (postponing) reality and responsibilities of adulthood.
Whatever happened to teaching by the 'Tough Love' approach? Whatever happened to the old adage 'Sink or Swim'? These two modes of learning actually 'educated' young people and forced them to step up to the 'true' reality of adulthood.
Instead, not only our youth, but the 'supposed' adults in positions of power in our Country have also learned quite well, how to 'manipulate' reality to acquire whatever their 'little' hearts desire. There is no better example of this, than what is happening in our Nation today.
And the end result of the 'reality' of 'postponement', 'manipulation' and 'delayed adolescence' is one 'crisis' after another.
The ONLY way to 'fix' (NOT BAILOUT) what has been being broken for years, would be for our representatives in government to 'grow up' and for parents and educators, to once again use 'Tough Love' and 'Sink or Swim' to teach our youth to 'grow up' as well.
Peter Pan was FICTION.

My Comment on Postponing Reality
My generation (Gen Y) is in for one big RUDE awakening in 10-15 years and I can't wait to see all my classmates faces when they realize their whole life is completely ruined and they wasted their lives on a bunch of BS instead of finding a good job and settling down and having kids.

It's going to be hilarious and since my future career plans is to be a cop, maybe I can arrest some punk I knew who needed to get reality smacked in his face when we were teens.

Also, I wish Thomas Sowell wasn't nearing the final years of his life, I only discovered him a year ago and it seems I missed out on some of his best work. O well at least I read his work now and I can try to educate the all the liberals around me. They don't seem to take to facts that well though....

PresidentDon
All of that is calculated in the cost of the car. Tell me how much the union adds to all those parts and the final assembly to pay for workers that do not work. And I will tell you how much money I'm not going to bail out. This may seem like complicated math but it has to be done and there are plenty of bureaucrats in Detroit and Washington to do it. If foreigners are rigging the system give me a value for that too. This isn't rocket science.

Reality
Thanks Mr. Sowell. You have nailed it.

The reality is there are no patriots
on the hill anymore. Nothing up there but stupid, self-serving fools who are owned by the unions and other special interest groups and who look upon the rest of us [their bosses] as cash cows to be bled until we die to pay for their greed and stupidity.

The feds are responsible for defense and infrastructure, anything else is really none of their business and they shouldn't be up there making "careers" out of gov't service.

Everything they touch, they screw up, then the normal linkage like suppliers to the auto makers kicks in and THAT gets screwed up. They'll never listen to the wisdom of a guy like Tom Sowell because they are CORRUPT.

We are seeing the demolition of our country and it will be exacerbated because the greedy, as Tyler predicted, have elected someone to assist them in gaining even more largesse from the public treasury.

Gov't is the problem, they are clueless...you cannot manage something that big, no-one is smart enough to do it and when the competing interest groups get into the act, it fails.

I hope we can start over after the depression or the revolution, whichever comes first.


President Don
Some years ago I bought an "American Made" GMC pickup. It was manufactured in Canada and at the time it was reported to have parts in it from 52 different countries. BUY AMERICAN

Beautifully Written
Once more Dr. Sowell has written a well thought out article but as several have already observed, no one that can do anything about it will ever read it and if they did, they wouldn't be able to comprehend it. How many of us do you think there are that still believe in self accountability and personal responsibility and hard work? D.C. has become worse than corrupt - ruled by a bunch of weak kneed bed wetting cry babies. America just doesn't live there anymore. We need to do something. I just don't know what it is.

The same goes for......
...all the people who made carriages to include freight wagons pulled by draft animals.

The lumbermen who felled the trees, the wheelwrights who made the wheels, the blacksmiths who provided the rims and hardware, the leathermakers who built harness', and the livestock merchants who raised the animals all provided what was needed to make buggys and wagons. The along comes the car.

There were no marches on Washington D.C., and no demands for government to take care of them and kill the competition.

When the airplane was developed for private, long distance travel, it was "goodbye train". Huge and beautiful train terminals sit empty and decaying around the country, and the millions that worked in that industry found themselves out of a job. But life went on.

Now comes the representatives of "the workin' man(!)" in the form of the UAW. These suits are demanding autoworkers be parented by the government, and of course, a majority of voters and reps will bow to these demands.

So much for the so-called "tough American".

America Has A Thriving Auto Industry
it just isn't located in Detroit, MI! That, thank God, was the reason southern Republicans defeated the union bailout. No one in the MSM has talked about the auto workers in the South, possibly because it doesn't serve their editorial agenda to point out the non-union plant managed efficiently can and does succeed because customers and shareholders interests trump "workers".

Detroit and Michigan have had the same representatives and senators for years. With everything falling down around them for decades, ignorant Michiganders continue to elect failures to both state and federal office. Carl Levin was a senator when I was in diapers. Dingell has represented the 15th congressional district since 1955 (before I was born)! You get what you vote for folks. Apparently Michigan likes failure and has adapted itself to perpetuate failure. As long as the rest of us prop up these failures with our tax dollars, it will continue.

This system ONLY works when voters are willing to get rid of those who seek perpetual power. Maybe it's time for another civil war in which productive states dump failure states like Michigan and California that have become parasites on the rest of the nation, dragging us down with them.

Like many of my friends....
...here in Michigan, if the bailout for the UAW and the "big three" passes, I've officially bought my last GM, Ford or Chrysler product.

Autoworkers...
....I've had to deal with over the years, those who were on probation or facing trial for criminal or addiction-fueled crimes, told of how they "get back" at their employers when their union didn't get its way. They were gratified in sabotaging the products the build.

Heads were not ground down before passing them on during engine assembly. This would later require major engine work at the dealership costing their employer a ton of cash.

Pop bottles (or, "soda", to those outside Michigan), were place behind door panels as were tuna sandwiches during assembly. When the car or truck buyer heard an annoying rattle, the bottles were discovered by the dealership and finally removed. The tuna sandwiches would eventually provide a stench that required replacement of panels and fabrics.

Tracking arms were purposely left not tightened securely as were one or two lug bolts that held the tires. And the list goes on.


Toyota plant delayed in Mississippi
It's not all roses for Toyota, either. While they may be hiring some employees here and there, they're also putting their Tupelo plant on hold and delaying the hiring of ~1900 employees indefinitely.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/15/toyotas-mi ssissippi-plant-delayed-indefinitely/

Cost to Mississippi in incentives?

"Mississippi's incentive package includes $293.9 million for Toyota...The package also has $30 million from the state for top-tier Toyota suppliers and $60 million from local governments for land acquisition and water supplies."

http://www.dra.gov/media/article_detail.aspx?articleID=851


Big 3
The opposite approach comes from Pat Buchanan. He states that Alabama gave Toyota a big tax break, therefore we should bail out the Big 3. I will give a tax break all day long because that creates jobs and the money comes back in taxes from the ancillary areas where the money is spent. Those of you who want to give a bailout, that money comes directly from yours and my pocket. The tax break money in on paper, not out of my pocket. At least not directly. Wake up!! Detroit Auto Industry needs to "re-tool!!!!"

pro from dover
So you travel around in a jetpack? You know, since autos are a thing of the past.

As for wishing bankruptcy on the industry your state depends upon so heavily, your attitude is a good example of biting off your nose to spite your face.

Alecto calls your state a failure and proposes it be lopped off the rest of the country. The vitriol on this message board isn't just for the auto industry - it's also directed at Michigan.

Propping up obsolete paradigms
Yeah; passenger rail service should be allowed to go the way of the horse and buggy as well. On a related topic, even if it may not seem so, why is our society so obsesssed with trying to impede the natural process of extinction of species which are no longer able to compete and survive on their own? (See the Endangered Species Act, which does not even allow for a weighing of costs v benefits in efforts to preserve even the most insignificant and unimportant, sometimes even harmful, species.)

Seawolf
Right on brother, HooaaaaaaaaH!

Ford has a neat small car
(about the size of a taurus) that gets 50 plus MPG, has been on the road a couple years and was given "car of the year" award last year, BUT they can't/wont bring it to the US. Why, because its a diesel and they know that GM killed the diesel auto market in 1980 with the Oldmobile Abortion. I owned one, 3 years 3 injection pumps, GM said "Tough"..Last GM car I bought. In 1990 GM established Saturn, not in the corporate family, non-union in Spring Hill, damn fine little car for around $13,000 well equiped. Couldn't have that, pulled Saturn back into the corporation, now sell a stripped at about 16,000 and well equiped $22-23,000. Still a piece of junk. Buy American? My Mercury's all came from Canada..well almost american, but to get one with all reasonable safety options (ABS,ESC, side airbags etc) it would cost around $40,000. I drive a Hyundai Azera, fully equipped with more stuff than I use, came out the door at around $25,000, that I can afford and a ten year warrenty to boot. Bankruptcy is good, it lets a reorganization take place. Bailout is bad, in 3 months they will be back for more.

Mitch Albom to Corker,Shelby,McConnell..
Mitch Albom (author of Tuesdays with Morrie and The Five People You Meet in Heaven) lays out the hypocrisy of some in Congress regarding Wall Street vs. Main Street.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081213/COL01/81213055

Excerpt:

"In a world where banks hemorrhaged trillions in a high-priced gamble called credit derivative swaps that YOU failed to regulate, how on earth do WE need to be punished? In a bailout era where you shoveled billions, with no demands, to banks and financial firms, why do WE need to be schooled on how to run a business?

Who is more dysfunctional in business than YOU? Who blows more money? Who wastes more trillions on favors, payback and pork?

At least in the auto industry, if folks don’t like what you make, they don’t have to buy it. In government, even your worst mistakes, we have to live with."

Another example.
I am one of those who disbelieve that carbon, which is a building block of all life on this carbon based earth is an undesireable element. Neveretheless, R & D on newer forms of producing energy will eventually allow us to escape the economic captivity of the mid-east; therefore, I much favor it.

The great danger, in my opinion, is that short term bridges to new energy will be abandoned. The development of readily available off shore oil will allow us to both bridge the gap but allow us to have the economic resources to perform the R & D necessary to bridge the gap.

On e accomplishment of George W. Bush
That no one give him enough credit for is the fact that but for Bush we would of had eight years with Al Gore as President. No matter what your opinion of Bush is any right thinking person will have to agree that Gore is at best a buffoon.

More from Mitch Albom
"Corker, you’ve got Nissan there and Volkswagen coming. Shelby, you’ve got Hyundai, Honda, Mercedes-Benz and — like McConnell — Toyota. Oh, don’t kid yourself. They didn’t come because you earned their business, a subject on which you enjoy lecturing the Detroit Three. No, they came because you threw billions in state tax breaks to lure them.

There ought to be a law — against the hypocrisy our government has demonstrated. The speed with which wheelbarrows of money were dumped on Wall Street versus the slow noose hung on the auto companies’ necks is reprehensible. Some of those same banks we bailed out are now saying they won’t extend credit to auto dealers. Wasn’t that why we gave them the money? To loosen credit?

Where’s your tight grip on those funds, senators? Where’s your micromanaging of the wages in banking? Or do you just enjoy having your hands around blue-collared throats?"


GREEN GOONIE BIRDS WILL BRING BACK HORSE

.....Enviro-whackism that has seized control of our politics, and the Democrat Party in particular, will soon have us all riding in horse drawn wagons again ...

.....We are completing the circle ...from farm to industry to farm ...and fossils fuels will be replaced with wind and sun as we get rid of the nasty oil, gas and coal industries ...Dow Chemical and the Agri-industry will be replaced with good ole horse manure again ...Oh happy days ...time to break out my Grandma's washboard and clothesline .....COLOSSUS

Reganite
I expect my state to face the consequences of its irrepsonsible support for ONE industry, along with the latter's pathologies. It won't however.

The unions have killed the auto industry here in Michigan.

It's time to face the reality music, just like all non-union adults do when life temporarily goes south. Inventory your past mistakes in judgement and bad choices, tighten your belt, downsize, change, and then move on.

But don't worry, misnamed "Reganite". The messiah-elect will take care of all of us. The pathology will continue.

REAGANITE @ 11:04

.....So, you are against Government giving tax breaks to business to create jobs? ...

.....Am I reading you correctly? .....COLOSSUS

??????????
So many of these posts are so indignant about union wages. Why? do you think for a second that lower wages will affect costs? Are American cars made in Mexico any cheeper?

any if it is wrong to bailout the auto industry with $15B without wage adjustments why it OK to bailout the banking for $8 TRILLION with loopholes for executive pay??????

Pro From Dover
I agree with you except that management helped to destroy the auto industry, too. Now, who cares why it happened and who is at fault. Teh best way for those companies to become healthy again is to shed excess weight.

I wrote in another thread that I had witnessed the excesses growing up in Detroit, MI. Waste and inefficiency has dogged the Big 3 for years. I guess as long as things looked great from the outside nothing needed to change. It's the candy apple syndrome all over again. Looks delicious from the outside, but take a bite - it's rotten inside. Washington, D.C. is an even better example of the candy apple syndrome.


Let's Talk About Chrysler
Chrysler is owned by Cerberus - a company that earned $100 billion dollars last year. Let it eat its bad investment decision, not taxpayers. I was and am against the Wall street bailout.

The best phrase I've read about this bailout mentality is the ridiculous position of socializing losses but privatizing gains. It is a fundamentally, intellectually unsupportable position.


HEY Patrick
No American cars made in Mexico are not cheaper. Do you know why? We have to pay to ship them from Mexico to dealerships. Plus the Big 3 still have union costs to contend with on the cars made in America. Also the fact that American cars are made in Mexico should tell you something about the cost of doing business in America.

And for the record the banking industry should not have been bailed out either

As usual,
Sowell's article is stupid and simplistic.
He ignores the tiny fact of the Industrial Revolution, the explosion of the US population, the migration from the country to the cities. You cannot compare the horse & buggy economy with today's industrial economy. Many, many, many more people are threatened by the failure of the Big 3 than were the slow disappearance of the horse and buggy (and by the way, the steam engine had already cut into that form of transport for almost half a century)

I have very mixed feelings about bailing out an industry that has failed so miserably, and that had a lot of warning that the times were a changin', but I will pose a question that is worth considering:

How many Americans bought SUVs over the last decade, and how many Americans were up in arms when the cost of gas was $4 and above, even as we were warned about the coming peak oil problem and global warming? In other words, I think that we as Americans have been complicit in the Big 3's failures to create and provide vehicles for the 21st century.

We kept demanding big gas guzzlers, and now that that paradigm appears to be at an end, we are screaming that they get what they deserve, when they were providing us what we appeared to want?

How fickle. And in case he missed it, Toyota isn't exactly flourishing here these days, either. Look at today's news.

I pose another question: if the Big 3 go under and all those hundreds and thousands of people lose their jobs, what is to be their lot? what about their health insurance, their pensions? How will they pay their rent, feed themselves? In other words, won't they just end up on the "public teat", which is a favorite theme around here?

Think it through.

postponing reality
A lot of these anti Big Three posts focus on the mistakes of the American automobile manufacturers, of which there are many, but ignore other factors. GM, for which I work, has been through a long agonizing period of restructuring after years of decline. We had gotten our factories more efficient, our cars quality was world class, our labor costs (despite the complete exagerations you see on TV) were within range of the transplants, and most of all we had a raft of new vehicles that were winning awards and kudos for there styling and performance.

The fact that we all felt we were on the cusp of a new day makes it all the more heartbreaking when a financial crisis, that was not any of our faults, snatches defeat from the jaws of victory for us.

Couple this with the misperceptions propagated by the media and many of my fellow conservatives that all the Big Threes' problems is because they are unionized and the fabulous, wonderful, amazing Japanese are not. The reality we have had to deal with is that the Japanese (and to a lesser degree Europeans) have completely insulated domestic markets that they use as a profit well from which they can always dip to finance their operations. American trade policy for three decades has been that manufacturing is something we should be ashamed of and the less we do of it the better. We would all like to see free trade but what about fair trade? You know the old idea of reciprical agreements, you open your market and we'll open ours. Now, when an American insists that others "take their thumb off the scale" they are looked at as if the just farted in church. A little patriotism would go a long way and it doesn't have to mean that you accept inferior products, just that a level playing field should actually be level.


Unions
would have never come to be if not for the abuses of management. In those companies that treated their employees fairly, if not as aquals, there still aren't unions.
When and if those in the transplant auto industry feel financially abused, they too will band together and demand justice.
Unfortunately, most union/management relationships have become less famillial than in those companies where the atmosphere is more famillial.
Just as in the entertainment industry the artists want the biggest cut they can get, most poeple want their reasonable share of the results of their labor.
The complaint is not that someone else is getting rich, it's the disproportion between the top and bottom compensation resulting from said labor.
The issue is the same in any industry. The basic solution is also. Reduce the ratio and the strife is reduced, reinvestment can increase, dividends can increase enticing more investors and the economy is revitalized.
Just as smokers, guns and motorcycles are easy targets because they stand out, unions are merely easy targets, when hittting the harder targets will garner a greater result.
Concider that the incentives to go from hourly to management usually include increased compensation and it isn't hard to see that while a rising tide may lift all boats, a waning tide leaves some high and dry.
It's only because the unions negotiated compensation increases that management increased theirs, but when concessions are made on the one side, bonuses are given to the other. Pretty much like when bailout funds are apporoved and management goes to a high-class spa to celebrate.
Cream does still rise to the top, but it doesn't take long for a layer of scum to appear on top of the cream.

The pro from dover
It has been a while but, back when Brian Bosworth was playing football at OU and we still had a GM assembly plant in OKC, he was quoted in a paper talking about all the fun he had working at the GM plant for the summer. He would hide nuts or bolts in the weirdest possible locations with notes attached that read, "Ha Ha finally found me". He thought it was loads of fun to imagine the end consumer and dealer going around and around about these problems. If he was a long time union employee, I am sure his job would never have been in danger. As it was, he worked under a summer program for college students and never intended to go back anyway.

Both of my ex-in-laws spent many years at that plant and I have heard many stories like yours. A Toyota manufacturing plant has space for three or four cars that need some repair before being shipped. A typical GM plant has acres of parking lots for the same thing.

Well Said Thomas Sowell
An exceptional piece by Thomas Sowell. Hard to draw any alternative conclusions.

I guess those of us that were educated during a period when education mattered are a dying breed.

Iam is simplistic
Dr. Sowell has thought it through. Believe me, I'm sure he does have compassion and concern, like the rest of us, for those who will lose their jobs, pensions and insurance. The short term effects will be devastating, yes. However you have to think long term and that's Dr. Sowell's point. There will continue to be a long term demand for transportation, people will need vehicles.

When the big 3 do fail, this demand will remain. Toyota, Honda, et al, will not be able to meet that demand in the short run and you will see more auto companies emerge, leaner, more innovative, and more efficient than what the big 3 were. The jobs that were lost will be regained eventually; however, maybe not in the same place and maybe not at the same pay. The real beneficiary will be the consumer because they will pay less for the product. The extra income that was saved by purchasing an efficiently produced product will now be spent on other products and that does what? It creates more jobs.

Go read some Milton Friedman and educate yourself.

Newsflash!
The big three and the UAW will now adopt the model of the American-based foreign-owned car plants, and match benefit for benefit to include wage levels. Insurance and retirement benefits will be an employee matched system meaning the employee will contribute funds equal to the company's contribution

As well, the union reps will now be expected to actually work at their jobs, and all non-essential staff will be let go.

Chronic absenteeism, in-shop violence, drug and alcohol abuse, and sloth will no longer be tolerated, for any reason, by both the union and the big three. Any acts of violence or shop sabotage will result in criminal charges and immediate dismissal.

Okay, I'm lying. But it was kind of fun to fantasize for a moment.

"Reality"
What a great word to use. Because people these days don't think realistically. Instead they treat money as if living in America is some kind of game. Don't worry though because if you make the wrong move the government is there to right all the wrong doings. It's like playing with a reset button. You can spend spend spend and when your tired of spending...hit reset.

And as for the thousands of people getting laid off that can't survive not, tough. That is the reality of the situation. Life sucks sometimes but you don't just ask the government for money, you get another job. And if you can't get another job, your probably not looking.

Best column
This is one of the best columns that I have read in a lot time.

Mr Bill
Why should a business worry about what you call the "disproportion between the top and bottom compensation? No one forces another person to take a job at any salary. Unions serve only as thugs to squeeze money out of businesses. If an employee acepts a job at whatever salary what right do they have to demand more especially if they dont produce more? Very few of us have the stomach for TRUE market forces but if any company paid its employees too little money no one would work for them. Or if the conditions are poor no one would work for that business. No employee has a right to demand anything if they enter freely into an agreement with a business owner. That doesnt mean they can not be negotiation but if someone doesnt like the benefits, conditions or salary of whatever job they have, move on. When enough people have abandoned a poorly run business it will either haveto chance to compete or fold to the market forces. Employees walking away is the BEST union of all.

It's been over two days
since the Electoral College started working on the results of the election, and the members haven't announced, "Halleluia, It's the Obamessiah". Do you think they might be looking at answering the questions about Obama's citizenship before starting the vote count?

Iam
What a canard-fest you posted!

Sowell ignores NOTHING. It is absurd to argue that different economic principles apply because of industrialization and population changes. The number and specific individuals are different, but the effect is the same. That more people are "threatened" doesn't make a policy (balouts) that ultimately hurt even more people any less wrong-headed.

"How many Americans bought SUVs over the last decade..."

Who cares? It ws their decision.

"[H]ow many Americans were up in arms when the cost of gas was $4 and above..."

People gripe. That doesn't make unresolved science (gobal warming) or Malthusian fairytales (peak oil) any more relevant. If they were the problem, obviously the price would not have fallen again.

"I think that we as Americans have been complicit..."

Nonsense. Making free choices in the marketplace does not subsidize poor decisions, nor does it prevent the basic duty imposed by the market to anticipate future customer needs.

"Toyota isn't exactly flourishing here these days, either. Look at today's news."

Toyota is scaling back based on demand expectations in the US economy. They are not facing huge financial difficulties.

"[I]f the Big 3 go under and all those hundreds and thousands of people lose their jobs, what is to be their lot?"

They will have to do what everyone else in the marketplace does - find other employment. The alternative (a government bailout) inevitably destroys more jobs than are "saved" and even more people face the prospect of looking for new employment or on the puplic teat. This nonsense that things will be worse without government intervention is economically invalid.

Think it through.

Daniel
"The fact that [GM was] on the cusp of a new day makes it all the more heartbreaking when a financial crisis, that was not any of our faults, snatches defeat from the jaws of victory for us."

Every business faces economic downturns and literally millions of businesses across this coutry do not face closing their doors. Facing the same economic conditions as everyone else does not justify a bailout (any more than it did for the banks).

"Couple this with the misperceptions propagated by the media and many of my fellow conservatives that all the Big Threes' problems is because they are unionized and the fabulous, wonderful, amazing Japanese are not."

Still, union labor comes at a preium (unearned) above the market rate and a refusal on the part of the unions to give onthat point was the key factor in the demise of the first bailout proposal.

"The reality we have had to deal with is that the Japanese (and to a lesser degree Europeans) have completely insulated domestic markets that they use as a profit well from which they can always dip to finance their operations."

If the Japanese and Europeans wsh to damage their ow economies materially in order that we can get cheaper cars, the "solution" is to say thankyou and make something else, not damage our own economy in kind.

"American trade policy for three decades has been that manufacturing is something we should be ashamed of..."

American manufacturing has consistently grown year after year, Manufacturing EMPLOYMENT has fallen ... in every major economy on the globe.

"You know the old idea of reciprical agreements..."

Still economically harmful. All they accomplish is to raise prrices for consumers.

Mr. Sluggo
Unions came into being out of self-interest - not management abuses. That they did not appear where employees were well-treated is historically inaccuate. Moreover, unions primarily agitated for things already provided by the private sector in order to attract the best workers - just at a faster pace than could be provided (sometimes to their own detriment). Today, the primary function of unions is to command higher than market wages, not to "demand justice".

"Just as in the entertainment industry the artists want the biggest cut they can get."

Stop there. That's correct.

"The complaint is not that someone else is getting rich, it's the disproportion between the top and bottom compensation resulting from said labor."

It is not resulting from "said labor"; it results from distinctly different labor. It isn't a matter of "strife"; it's a matter of the market rewarding demanded labor. All else is envy.

Unions are materially different from cigs or guns which can be freely obtained or freely ignored. A smoke doesn't impose monopolistic conditions on you (often with the help of the state) in order to benefit itself.

"[I]ncentives to go from hourly to management usually include increased compensation..." for greater responsibility.

"It's only because the unions negotiated compensation increases that management increased theirs..."

No. Management salaries are subject to the market (even CEO pay - that it is Board determined does not alter that fact).

"[W]hen concessions are made on the one side..."

That did not happen and AIG shouldn't have been bailed out either.

Someone...
... should forward this article to Pat Buchanan.

Excellent again--
Reality will hit many in our population much sooner than many expect because as I see it, nothing has been learned by our so called leaders. The sheep as usual will be led to the famine line with possibly no one to bail them out. Just a thought.

Yo Iam
As usual, the simplicity of the point Dr. Sowell makes is missed by those unfamiliar with fundamental freedoms and the sometimes "unfair" aspects of capitalism. Suggested reading: "Basic Economics" by Dr. Sowell. It teaches what my college Econ classes, and I suspect most college classes, left out.

The governments that have tried to impose "fairness" neglect to consider the long term consequences of their actions. They become like the "caring" health care workers who artificially keep alive a terminally patient, who without heroic effort would die. Just like most government bailouts, the effort is prohibitively expensive and doesn't work. They only assuage consciences. We and our grandchildren can't afford "feel good" fiscal policies.

We've seen the effects of this kind of government interference in the countries of the old Soviet Union. The citizens of those countries who wanted opportunity to succeed, left those countries to go to a country with a government that exercises less intrusion and restrictions on its businesses. Unfortunately for us here in the U.S., we have no place to go.

As far as unions go, they have outlived their usefulness. Their negatives now outweigh their value. As a former union activist for over 30 years, I have seen the need for unions in the past, but over the years, through the efforts of unions, legislative protections for workers are now in place that prevents much of the abuse imposed on workers in the past. Like the horse and buggy, unions have "worked" themselves out of a job.

Except for one thing:

THEN WHY DO FORIEGN TRANSPLANTS NEED ALL OUR DOUGH? (money - incentives)

If one is to level the plaing field, then why give it to them?

Just asking, maybe Sowell can address that one.

They don't
"THEN WHY DO FORIEGN TRANSPLANTS NEED ALL OUR DOUGH? (money - incentives)"

Obviously, they don't. Of course, if someone is foolish enough to offer it, they're not about to turn it down (any more than the Big Three would).

The issues are separate on two fronts: (a) those dollars are gone; we are arguing against repeating the foolishness and (b) that was state level dough at a small level; this is federal level dough at a much greater level - that doesn't make either justified; it's just that the bailout is here, now and huge.

Agree with you!

If these manufacturers had not consistently designed their cars to have certain mechanical things go out at a specific time. They would be better off. Heard a few days ago a modest GM car
is now built so that if one needs a new transmission (all a component part) it would cost around $4000.) That is craziness!
Those kind of things is another reason they are in trouble.
Still say they are looking around for moving money. They will be compiling all of their vehicles in Mexico!
Americans are not savvy enough to build industry but want to burden it. Why?
I do love luxury cars. I will walk before I drive a German or Japanese car! Never have never will. I remember my history. I remember how much they care for our troops in WWII.

Ron - Post #73
It's been two days! Please tell me more. Was under impression they had til the 20th!

While you are at it can you or anyone else tell me if it is customary for a President elect to dominate the media? With daily news conferences? Am I being to too sensitive?
Seems he has held one everyday day since I recovered enough to view the News again. After the so called election.

Mr Bill
You would have to make a serious effort to be MORE wrong.

An employer pays an employee to do a job. The employee must perform MORE than his wage in value to the employer, or he isn't hired (zero profit in break-even). No matter how well a person pushes a broom, there is a ceiling of value to the employer. This equation is broken by unions--staff are paid based on longevity, not value to the employer. Regardless of how everyone thinks they are under-paid, reality is very different.

It is quite apparent that the largest costs of the Big 3 are employee-related (pay, benefits, pension, efficiency, etc.). As long as this is the case, it goes under the microscope when the Big 3 are in economic crisis. When you are in competition with non-union shops, the difference is too hard to disguise.

Also, unions foster an 'us against them' attitude in the workplace that is 100% destructive. Hear the whining when executives get increases in good times ("Hey, we make the cars, that should go to us.")

As to executive pay: it is up to the Board of Directors to assign pay value to executives. Their ultimate success/failure scorecard is the stock price of the company. Think in terms of pro athletes--there are only a few people qualified (or successful) to run multi-billion dollar companies. Remember, the company has to show a profit for its shareholders to continue to buy, not sell, stock.

If the employees think they are too valuable, try pooling their assets together, risk that capital, and start a new company. The class warfare nonsense of the gap between white and blue collar pay is just that--nonsense.

The GM World
I worked in the auto industry for about ten years, for a major manufacturer with the initials "GM". While there, I experienced an extremely inefficient organziation from top to bottom. Many long-term employees get up to two months paid time off every year (no joke). Benefits are generous. In terms of the actual work, I've witnessed factory workers blatantly abusing company-owned equipment and machinery, for no other purpose than their own amusement. Drinking during working hours is commonplace in the factories, especially at lunch. And, yes, GM pays certain employees to not work at all. On the white collar side, it is just as bad. Goals and objectives are always changing and never really attained. Communication up and down the command chain was poor. Meetings were held for no real purpose, other than to talk about what to talk about at other meetings. Good ideas were quickly shot down and group-think was rampant. Most high achievers turned to just managing their careers as opposed to doing what is right for the company. On top of this, top management gave in to ridiculous union demands far too often. All GM employees get every November election day (every two years) off with pay. Nobody in management ever wanted to kill the golden goose, while things were good, so idiotic union contracts were signed. Whenever we tried to make operational changes, UAW approval was needed. And, of course, there was always some give away that had to be made in exchange for this agreement.

More GM Reality
Years ago, GM was researching a manufacturing technique which would have made small cars more efficient to build, and more profitable to sell. This would have helped with CAFE standards and would have given consumers a viable high-mileage option while not hurting the company profits as much as current small cars do (because they are just not very profitable). The UAW killed the deal because it involved outsourcing too much of the process; they insisted the company drop the idea forever or they would not come to the bargaining table. The company acquiesced. This is yet another example of the GM world of make-believe.

Mr. Bill
I agree that unions once had a distinct purpose and, indeed, they have won some well-appreciated benefits to all workers. Still, they have overstepped their bounds. When management needs to obtain union approval for virtually every decision it makes, something is wrong. When that approval comes only at a cost of more give-aways, something is wrong. When union employees are paid to sit on their butts, something is wrong. And your assumption that moving to management represents a pay increase is also incorrect. Many white collar managers at GM make no more than a long-term union laborer earns, and that laborer cannot readily be fired while the white collar manager can be let go at any time. The post from U.S. Constitution is correct. Employees should be paid based upon their value to the organization--supply and demand. If one is only qualified to screw a bolt on to a car as it moves by, I hazard to guess that person can be easily replaced and is not adding all that much value.

Fletch
Kinda, I'm not going to bother with that A or B.

"that doesn't make either justified;"

Well thank you.

In either case, people pay for it. When those same states look for handouts from Uncle Sam, they should be told the same thing: i.e. Take off those abatements that are strapping you down, tying up resources, and fairly charge the corporations for the liberty to use American soil -- as we all are -- before we contribute.

I’ll even offer another scenario. It is not just foreign companies. There are major abatement deals, such as IBM, negotiated/renogotiated under threat that they will pull out of the area if they don’t get their goodies."Gimme". All I'm saying is it starts an endless chain. Some call it corporate welfare, some call it pay to play. Whatever the title it’s awash in the same principles.

Here’s another kicker for you. That same corporation can renegotiate their abatements and then turn around and hemorrhage jobs there anyway. Its all too common. Don’t like it? We’ll call up another county or Sate to “make us a deal”.

riding the bus again
When I was single, I rented a small apartment and rode the bus to work. The rent was reasonable and the bus was quick, cheap and reliable. I was happy to be debt free. Then, something happened. The TV that dominated my leisure hours, convinced me that true freedom and respect could only be obtained by having a nice ride. I learned also that a beautiful mate could be found only in the passenger seat of an expensive convertible, where her long blond tresses could flow behind in the gentle breezes. So, I bought a high dollar car...on monthly payments. There was also gasoline, insurance, license, maintenance and parking fees to be budgeted for. But, I found myself a more respected man by the gas station guy, the insurance company, the bank, the garage mechanic and various others devoted to making my life better. Good man!
The car eventually led to payments on a house with it's own driveway. The gas guzzler sure looked swell in the front yard.
Soon, my car and house helped attract a lady. She didn't have the long golden tresses but she did have another gas guzzling monster to keep mine company. In short order the house and car payments were joined by credit card payments and a dozen more for things that wore out before they were payed for.
Then life dropped the hammer. My work hours were reduced. Payments didn't get made. I stopped answering the phone. My live-in left my Ford for the garage mechanic's Mercedes. The house and it's effects went on the block and I found myself living alone in a one room flat with a Black and white TV and a bunch of unpaid bills.
I don't trust that stupid TV anymore. Is there a lesson here?
Gotta go. Here comes the bus. Funny, I see my ex is driving. Guess the Merc didn't work out.



Hang On To Your Kids!
Thomas always writes excellent articles and although we are concerned about losing our jobs, there is an agenda in the works that promotes that children 8 - 18 years be allowed to have same sex and abortions without parental consent under a U.N. Children's Rights law that could become a reality if the American people don't wake up and watch what the socialist agendas are for same sex and children and abortions - It's a very dangerous road to allow them to tread upon -

Postponing Reality
I agree with TS. I can't help wondering why anyone thinks we Americans want our money committed to saving a product the average man doesn't seem to be buying here in the USA. However, I don't see why the auto manufacturering company employees don't just buy out the business and eliminate the unions. That way they would have the union elite's payroll to pay for excellent managerial and design staff. It would behove the employees to produce the best product they can in order to SELL them so that their earnings would be up. At their current pay scale, they should be able to qualify for a loan as a corporation or whatever they would be.

I see an earlier post of mine.....
.....was removed. I'll try again.

Regarding the Mitch Albom statement that state governments gave foreign car based American auto plants tax reductions to locate in their states, and that it's hypocritical to reject a bailout, Mr. Albom has misused analogy and didn't do all his homework.

In Pontiac, MI., an area I'm familiar with, buggys were manufactured before autos. Cars had been built in that town for over 80 years but no more.

Almost every year, Pontiac's local government and their state reps gave GM tax rebates or incentives to keep on producing and employing. Then came the new, hypenated Americans who took over city government, and did they ever love GM's deep pockets!

Gone were the tax incentives, and up went GM's taxes. Someone had to pay for the now nearly non-existent city services and political pay raises.

GM said that they couldn't afford to stay if the city kept up. The city wouldn't budge so GM split. Cars and trucks are no longer built in Pontiac.

American automaker have been given tax breaks for years, but union and now local demands destroyed that concept. They're now paying the price.

Actually
The easiest way to put an end to the tax abatement gieaways is to end corporae taxation. Corporations do not pay taxes that are assessed evenly upon an industry - they are passed along as regressive taxaton to consumers. We need to get Congress out of the playing favorites game, which means getting them out of the money redistribution game (an all but impossible task but the best thing that can happen). End subsidies/tariffs, welfare, abatements, giveaways, bailouts, etc. (people pay for all of them - and more than they think) and give those morons on the Potomac only what they need to carry out the enumerated powers. That solves a whole host of problems.

Postponing Reality
"They are avoiding the rust belts and the policies that have made those places rust belts." So true and so right! Also, let's not forget that Toyota has higher reliability ratings and customer satisfaction than the "Big, Fat, Sloppy Three".

Merry Christmas
What an excellent common sense point. An explanation so fundamental, it boggles the mind. Liberals always push doom and gloom. the industrial revolution had the same effect, and we survived. The big 3 will ultimately fail, and we will survive.

Merry Christmas - John
John - I agree 100%. My question is, how do you survive with the workforce our education system is turning out?

Postponed Reality Bites
The reality is that a major correction in the living standard of the average American. The mass of people that won't make the grade can't be absorbed by private industry or government positions much longer.

Idle former employees will discover that there is no work that matches their skill sets. Modern Americans will not stoically accept the hardship of a depression in the manner of their grandparents. They may react violently as their ability to meet the expectations for which they have been programmed by a consumer culture diminishes. Bailouts will only delay the inevitable correction for a few more months until the currency is debauched.

Problem = UAW. End of Story.
GM and Toyota make and sell about the same number of cars each year. They both make good products that people want to buy. They both operate under the same burden of government regulations. Toyota makes millions in profit, while GM loses millions. The only notable difference bewteen these two companies is that GM is strangled by the UAW whereas Toyota has a union-free workforce.

The big three need to go bankrupt for no other reason than to shed the endless unreasonable contracts they have mistakenly agreed to with the UAW over the years. Then maybe they can rise from the ashes under new management who have the balls to tell unions to get the hell out of the way.

An auto industry bailout is really a UAW bailout in disguise. The UAW needs to crash and burn for its major role in choking Americas auto industry to the point of unprofitability.

Bailout is not part ofthe American dream
The USA was founded on individual enterprise. Those who made the right decisions became wealthy, those who did not, worked for them. That is the future no matter which Socialist is calling the shots.

But we have a problem. Personal integrity. There are too many people who do not have the guts to take a person aside and tell them to their face that what they are doing is dishonest, or will not work because it failed before.

We have another problem. Functionally illiterate workers who know only violence to get their way.

Turn your back on governments who do not make it easier to do business. Vote with your own sweat for a better future by creating products that other people will buy because it will aid their own survival. No more TV sets or big screen TVs. Build food gardens, or make durable working clothes, or something that others can use. Like decent electric cars

Most important is to visit your next door neighbor to educate them on the above basics. Make yourself known in your neighborhood and plan for a natural disaster with no outside aid available. This may save your life if it gets nasty. But it will also help your neighbors understand what is happening and calm them down.

If I have to make a go of it myself, then I would expect my own company to do so and thus any corporation similarly. Its a pain to be laid off or fail, but learn the lesson and move on! Build it smarter next time! That is the American dream, to be able to strive for success and be able to keep the wealth.

Since when...
I have to wonder...

Since when has the government (ever) taken a large stake in anything: and improved the product/service, or reduced the cost?

Medicaid?
Public Schools?
College Education?
and now bailouts for the Automakers?

Dr. Sowell is absolutely correct. We, with our money, are just postponing a crisis, born of government, social policy, and political greed.

Do you think I could get a bailout loan to go buy my island now?

All is Lost
Common sense is dead. How did we ever elect all the dum-dums to Congress? They must have been educated in the government schools and universities by the 60's hippies!
When I look for examples of incompetence I think of Pelosi, Reid and Ginsberg! But there are many others and they come in all colors and genders and parties.
All is Lost!

Atlas Shrugged
Reminds of Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged and how quickly we are going down that path.

Exactly right
Dr. Thomas "Hammer" Sowell hits another nail on the head. Similarly, environmentalists keep us from harvesting natural resources and the open space crowd increases housing costs (Dr. Sowell has written about this extensively). Ultimately, deficit spending postpones all of our excesses to the next generations. Just lunches, there is a price to pay for a kinder, gentler, fairer world.

Big Fan
So happy to find you. Discovered you when you were with Forbes Mag. Big fan of your. Love your articles !!!!

Auto Industry Loans
$4 a gallon gas gas caused car sales to plummet. The Wall Street credit crunch caused car loans to dry up and with it, car sales. The Big 3 did not cause this situation, our illustrious, lowest approval rating ever US Congress did. News Flash: the Japanese and Germans aren't selling cars either. They are sitting on cash reserves because their governments support their industry.

Auto Loans
Can anyone tell me what happened to companies like Duryea, Overland, Packard, Studebaker, Hudson, Tucker, Cord, Auburn, Dusenberg, AMC; oh yeah, thats right went out of business or were absorbed by someone and guess what, we survived. There will be no change in Detroit they will continue the same path they're on when times get tough they'll just hold out their hand. As for me, its now foreign cars til the end. Sorry had my heart set on a Jeep but I'll be buying Toyota. Will never support the union thugs.

Unions are BS
At one time, there was a need for the union movement, but speaking as a former state officer of a union, unions are merely a microcosm of corrupt government. If unions were worth anything, labor would have long since owned their own banks, mortgage companies, credit unions, hospitals and universities. But they haven't, they don't, and they aren't going to.
Speaking as a former union member, union members as a whole are totally ignorant of entrepreneurship and Economics 101. They tend to believe all of life's problems can be solved if raises are big enough and regular enough.
All of that BS union-type thinking instantly goes out the window when the business you're working for declares bankruptcy and shuts down, causing you to lose your pension and benefits.
Nature itself is per se a free market, and the UAW has simply priced themselves out of a state of market competitiveness. The rest of us are stupid to let government force us to share their pain.
Humans as a whole tend to be slow learners. Freedom, entrepreneurship, competition, decentralization and free markets are the only LOGICAL way to go! Decentralization and individualism rule, collectivism and centralization drool!

us auto bankruptcy
Tom's call for the simple bankruptcy process to fix the Big 3 is pure academic fantasy. Sorry to all of those who think this way, but you are delusional. If you just don't care about those who will be hurt, that's one thing. But don;t believe for a second that you have the answer and the companies are too stupid to see it. This article sums it up pretty well. http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/1 2/orderly_bankrup.html

Those of you who think you know how to run a car company because you know what kind of car you prefer are foolish. I suppose since you buy gas you'll be telling us next about the oil companies.

Climate change reality
The article by Dr. Sowell also explains the man made climate change crowd. They believe we can make everything better.

One simple question to the left: What exactly is the ideal average temperature for Earth?


liberals aducated beyond their intell
Another dose of facts some idiots still cannot comprehend

To Jim from MI
OK we'll take your point. But then tell us how many years do we continue to finance these companies through the federal government. What if they never regain market share and just continue to spiral into debt at what point do we cut them off or do you propose we just keep buying them off. When was the last time they made an honest profit or even came close (without manipulating their tax liabilities). The truth is its time to take the pain and let them go, no I don't envy those that will loose their jobs but I got something to tell them I've been there and done that. They act like no one else has ever lost a job, but lots of people have lost jobs and I don't see the UAW offering help to those people, why then should we offer extra help to them. Industries have always gone away and the country survives.

Jobs - Textiles
Where was the feds when the textile industry needed help . Raising taxes so it was cheaper
to go to china than to stay in America . Let
the auto co's. file for bankruptcy . I'll bet their are a lot of companies that can make replacement parts . Men with the ability to think always fill jobs , or find a way to make jobs.

Cars and Clothes
Where was the feds when the textile industry needed help . Raising taxes so it was cheaper
to go to china than to stay in America . Let
the auto co's. file for bankruptcy . I'll bet their are a lot of companies that can make replacement parts . Men with the ability to think always fill jobs , or find a way to make jobs.

Hey Mcsame !
If you want to gossip, go to another site. You are still free to choose (for now).

Matthew from Va
GM last made a profit in 2004. That's not like it was the 1970's or something. The fact that the USA has allowed so many industries to collapse while our Congress greases the rails for the forgieners to take over is one of the great shames of our time. The fact that our government sold out the electronics, textile, steel and numerous other industries is not something we should point to as justification for doing it again. I think that in more normal economic times there wouldn't be any auto companies askig for $$. What's happening here (right now)is that no one is buying cars right now. Lots of reasons why, not many to do with auto management in this instant. Look at the sales figures for honda, toyota and the others. Japan will not let Toyota even post a yearly loss without manipulating their currency to try and correct things in their favor. I think by 2010 things will have sorted themselves out and no one will be asking for more $$.
Someone says it will cost $240B to let the big 3 fail http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081217 /AUTO01/812170372/&imw=Y.

decide for yourself which is the better option

President Don
GM sold 9.3 million cars and lost $17 billion.
Toyota sold 9 million cars and profitted $17 billion. What does that tell you?

Responsibility does not rest w/the taxpa
"Someone says it will cost $240B to let the big 3 fail." - The big question is who will it cost? for that matter, who's the "someone", Jim?? The market can decide who goes and who stays. Government has never been a good business manager - the failing Social Security Program being a perfect example. If governement estimates 7B to bail out the auto industry, it will cost 3-4 times that, you can count on it. Maybe that's where your "someone" got the 240B amount from - the true cost of this bialout for the taxpayer.Remove obstacles, like the UAW and taxes, tariffs, gov. regulations and let Big 3 succeed or fail. Dems place restrictions on American free market enterprise, meddle in private business, restrict energy development in this country and then wonder why "capitalism" doesn't work. Small wonder.

Level the playing field
We live in the greatest country in the world. Surely there is a way for government (and the UAW) to step out of the way and let good ole American ingenuity take over and work its affect. Reduce (or eliminate) government interference and this country can rebound.

F1etch, Seawolf, Alecto and Pro fr Dover
An excellent thread headed up by the titled authors and many others as well. Their contributions are shared by many,many Americans that helped to build a great country.

Personally, I was the first of 10 in the family that owned a Ford dealership to buy a Honda. It was a hard, but good choice and now only one of us is still w/ Ford. It was not easy, but we are consumers and we know value. The last one standing, my brother, will not buy another due to this bailout of the UAW. I know that anectdotal evidence means nothing, but we are all fiercly patriotic Americans that resisted a better deal for years and years- to our own detriment. for now, Ford will be fine but one or both of the others needs to go. Just like AMC with their Pacer, Hornet, Gremlin and Matador. We never missed them, did we?

My favorite line so far:


This system ONLY works when voters are willing to get rid of those who seek perpetual power. Maybe it's time for another civil war in which productive states dump failure states like Michigan and California that have become parasites on the rest of the nation, dragging us down with them. --Alecto--

No Equality In America
White, young, men are the most unequal citizens in the United States. Sooner or later these men will rebel.

Years of manhood hate by Liberal women has destroyed the future of American men.

NC chick
I posted the link so you could read it for yourself. I can't make you do it. If you want to ignore it, I can't stop you. If you choose to believe that all the nation's troubles come from folks with a (D) next to their name, that's your choice as well. I'm no Democrat, but pointing there in this instance is kind of silly. All sides have been complicit in the systematic dismantling of the American industrial base.

I'm OK, You're Not So Hot
Ooh, Dr. Sowell! Now you're being rational. We can't have that!

Your analysis is, as usual, right on the money.

I think our current predicament is a direct result of '60's hippy cultural nonsense, as propagated by those very hippies who now populate our media, academia, and Hollywood institutions. There was a very popular book back then entitled, "I'm OK - You're OK". A glib phrase pregnant with falsehood. It was swallowed hook, line, and sinker by an entire generation and we are suffering the consequences of it today and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, under it's culminating phenomenon, Barak Obama.

An example of this philosophy at work was offered last year by a professor who opined that we unwashed masses simply did not "understand" the culture that condoned "honor" killing. This infantile stupidity is the inevitable end product of "I'm OK - You're OK", multiculturalist thinking. Let's see; a man's brother rapes his 13 yr old daughter; the man then orders his 19 yr old son to kill that innocent child and the community pats him on the back for it. To suggest that there is something about that scenario that I don't "understand" is evidence of a near complete absence of imagination and humility.

I understand it completely. It's evil. It is indicative of a very, very, sick culture. A culture which, by the way, makes no bones about its convictions of its supremacy over western culture. The economic collapse Obama is engineering will only make us a more tempting target. After our economic suicide, they will simply walk right in.
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