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Tuesday, December 09, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Meaning of Mumbai
by Thomas Sowell
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Will the horrors unleashed by Islamic terrorists in Mumbai cause any second thoughts by those who are so anxious to start weakening the American security systems currently in place, including government interceptions of international phone calls and the holding of terrorists at Guantanamo?

Maybe. But never underestimate partisan blindness in Washington or in the mainstream media where, if the Bush administration did it, then it must be wrong.

Contrary to some of the more mawkish notions of what a government is supposed to be, its top job is the protection of the people. Nobody on 9/11 would have thought that we would see nothing comparable again in this country for seven long years.

Many people seem to have forgotten how, in the wake of 9/11, every great national event-- the World Series, Christmas, New Year's, the Super Bowl-- was under the shadow of a fear that this was when the terrorists would strike again.

They didn't strike again here, even though they have struck in Spain, Indonesia, England and India, among other places. Does anyone imagine that this was because they didn't want to hit America again?

Could this have had anything to do with all the security precautions that liberals have been complaining about so bitterly, from the interception of international phone calls to forcing information out of captured terrorists?

Too many people refuse to acknowledge that benefits have costs, even if that cost means only having no more secrecy when making international phone calls than you have when sending e-mails, in a world where computer hackers abound. There are people who refuse to give up anything, even to save their own lives.

A very shrewd observer of the deterioration of Western societies, British writer Theodore Dalrymple, said: "This mental flabbiness is decadence, and at the same time a manifestation of the arrogant assumption that nothing can destroy us."

There are growing numbers of things that can destroy us. The Roman Empire lasted a lot longer than the United States has lasted, and yet it too was destroyed.

Millions of lives were blighted for centuries thereafter, because the barbarians who destroyed Rome were incapable of replacing it with anything at all comparable. Neither are those who threaten to destroy the United States today.

The destruction of the United States will not require enough nuclear bombs to annihilate cities and towns across America. After all, the nuclear destruction of just two cities was enough to force Japan to surrender-- and the Japanese had far more willingness to fight and die than most Americans have today.

How many Americans are willing to see New York, Chicago and Los Angeles all disappear in nuclear mushroom clouds, rather than surrender to whatever outrageous demands the terrorists make?

Neither Barack Obama nor those with whom he will be surrounded in Washington show any signs of being serious about forestalling such a terrible choice by taking any action with any realistic chance of preventing a nuclear Iran.

Once suicidal fanatics have nuclear bombs, that is the point of no return. We, our children and our grandchildren will live at the mercy of the merciless, who have a track record of sadism.

There are no concessions we can make that will buy off hate-filled terrorists. What they want-- what they must have for their own self-respect, in a world where they suffer the humiliation of being visibly centuries behind the West in so many ways-- is our being brought down in humiliation, including self-humiliation.

Even killing us will not be enough, just as killing Jews was not enough for the Nazis, who first had to subject them to soul-scarring humiliations and dehumanization in their death camps.

This kind of hatred may not be familiar to most Americans but what happened on 9/11 should give us a clue-- and a warning.

The people who flew those planes into the World Trade Center buildings could not have been bought off by any concessions, not even the hundreds of billions of dollars we are spending in bailout money today.

They want our soul-- and if they are willing to die and we are not, they will get it.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Bang on again, Dr Sowell
A couple quibbles. First, the nuclear cat has been out of the bag since the collapse of the USSR. If the jihadis want a nuke, don't tell me oil money wouldn't buy as many as they like. The reason we have not been nuked is because although the troops in the trenches of jihad don't mind dying, the cagy old timers at the helm have no wish to see the middle east turned into a sea of glass. Not that sooner or later a fanatic may not take the helm, in fact Ahmadinejhad may be the one.
Secondly, Japan was a wreck before the atomic bomb. They were an excuse. Sober men knew they had to choose between surrender or annihilation and surrender was a narrow choice.

Just move on, Robert ...
Just move on Robert ... no terrorists here.

Excellent article, Dr. Sowell.

We should just "submit"
How are we going to defeat people who really think they'll be rewarded with 69 virgins if they kill many others while blowing themselves up? Talk about a great motivator.

Maybe Obama will save us. He'll talk to the French and Canadians who seem hellbent--with apologies to Satan worhsipppers--on giving up more freedom to placate the jihadists. The "progressives" have won. We should just "submit." Call me "Dhimmi."

Great article Mr. Sowell
It is true, they(you know who you are) have not came after us because of Pres. Bush policies. I would have voted for him all over again if able to just to keep my black but safe as I pursue the American Dream.

Still there are those who have their heads stuck in the sand, and see no evil, hear no evil and dare not speak any evil except against the U.S.

Keep on informing the 52%, Mr. Sowell while us 48% cover your back. We got you, boo

Dems will do a 180
I predict Barack Obama will not close Gitmo and will be aggressive against terrorism. Why? Because he will now get the same briefings that Pres. Bush receives and they will scare the crap out of him.

I just can't believe Obama will be so arrogant as to not make sure our nation is safe and secure. Campaign rhetoric is one thing, reality is another. One sure way out of office is to have lax security and allow a terrorist attack again.

As for Obama's supporters, he knows they will follow whereever he goes. In fact, Obama could announce a 50% tax cut on those making over $250K and his supporters would think it was a good idea. He leads, they follow - no matter what his policies are.

Just another day at
the mall for Robert. Is that all they can do? Well, I really cannot wish that you will be in such a place during such an event as Mumbai, Mr. Ranger. But if you ever are, be sure to post here again if you live to tell about it.

Really Ranger??
Come back and tell everyone this same thing again after someone guns down some of your friends and family. Then lets see how you feel about this issure.

I see you here on nearly every post and rarely do you ever actually address the subject. I know you hate Bush and honestly I don't really like him either, but do us all a favor tell us some of the liberties he has taken away from you or how it has directly affected you in anyway. We'll be waiting and probably a long time to hear an answer.

Ranger
You are example of the left lunacy in this country. Next you will tell us 9/11 never really happened. Join the morons in Hollywood and watch the the stupid crap they roll out.

Take it easy on Robert,
people. After all, the kid is only 7 years old. That's the only possible explanation for the fact that he doesn't remember 9/11.

Close to war
Dear Mr. Sowell,
I'm sure you saw the news that India was ready to go to war with Pakistan - very close, indeed - and you certainly know what that would mean: the first dual between nuclear armed foes. The danger: Pakistani nationalism combined with Islamic radicalism could mean that cities in both countries end up like burnt embers in a log fireplace, hundreds of thousands of people incinerated, millions of people sick and dying, and a planet whose governments are too broke to help.

What's even more frightening - (if it were possible) - is the spread of the Wahhabis, in Pakistan and elsewhere, who are the most virulent of Islamic sects. Their schools are dominating the world Islamic scene, and their theology is suicidal. Their end game, in fact, is the destruction of everything.

So far, they don't run Pakistan's inner courts, but Pakistan is frightfully close to being a new version of the Ayatollah's Iran - a Shah to be replaced with a sect even more deadly than the Shiites.

Think of the Wahhabis this way: Muslim versions of Jim Jones, funded by oil money, and in hot pursuit of weapons too terrifying to imagine.

One Thing It Did
One thing the Mumbai attack did do was reveal the folly of gun control. It showed what happens when you disarm the populace "for their safety". Now only a liberal intellectual would be so stupid as to continue to advocate gun control for America.

Christ, even a CNN photographer on the scene admitted he wished he had had a gun rather than his Nikon. No doubt he had been an enlightened progressive citizen of the world, some hipster trendoid that impressed all the chicks, (or his same sex domestic life partner), at parties with all his worldliness and his support for Obama. I'll bet he's filling out his membership card for the NRA right now.

There's something about the exposure to serious harm that clarifies the mind, makes it get right with itself. All liberals become right wing extremists when their safety is at risk. It's OK for the rest of us to die, but Oh Boy! it's quite another thing when a liberal's life is threatened. Yessiree.


I wonder
I'm thinking it might be a good idea to take up a collection so Wobbie Wanger and Hal Drunkahue can ride the Walmart helicopters and jeeps all day and not bother us with their idiocy.
Here's my $10 in quarters!

Keep Shining Your Light Dr Sowell

Is Obama insane?

"Islam can be compatible with the modern world. It can be a partner with the Christian & Jewish & Hindu & Buddhist faiths in trying to create a better world." Barak Obama 2008 Democratic Compassion Forum at Messiah College Apr 13, 2008

compatible = capable of existing together in harmony.
Islam is a 700 AD religion and has NO rights for women.

partner = to join as a partner.
Islam and the Jewish religion partners?
================================================
"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Barack Obama from 'Audacity of Hope'

Obama thinks Hamas and Iran can become partners with America and Israel?

“At the “World Without Zionism” conference held in Tehran in October 2005, as the crowd chanted “death to Israel, death to America, death to England,” the Iranian President Ahminajead said...with the help of the Almighty, we shall soon experience a world without America and Zionism, notwithstanding those who doubt.”

Obama is talking about negotiating with the madman from Iran who has stated in no uncertain terms that America and Israel will be destroyed im Ahminajeads lifetime?


Mumbai
reminds me of the DC sniper. Just one guy (he did have a companion) and he killed about a dozen people. Schools were closed, it was chaos and fear for millions of people. The law enforcement agencies looked like the keystone cops. He was eventually ratted out by an associate who believed his boasts and knew his background. A couple hundred like him would be very educational and produce some quite hasty attitude adjustments. JD's Handsome Son notes there would be some new attitudes toward armed honest men. It is noteworthy that small arms on the spot are the most effective response in Israel to such stunts as hijacking, suicide bomber attempts (most are stymied) and similar attacks.

Dr. Sowell
Surely you are not suggesting that we give up essential liberty for some temporary security. Dr. Franklin would not agree with you. I do agree that we must be prudent but not trusting of government.

On the question about NYC, LA and Chicago; can I get back to you on that one?

Townhall management needs to do something about improving the quality of the trolls here.

Is Wobbie the best they can attract?

We, the dedicated right-wing wackos of the Townhall community demand a better quality enemy! LOL!

Hi Gimp!
I hear Jimma the Peanut is headed your way again. You remember him don't you? The guy that brought peace to the Middle East 30 years ago.

How's that working out for ya'?

Waiting in the wings
Prior to 9/11 events such as the superbowl were just another big party. Post 9/11 any such event is preceded with months of planning on the part of those who are trained in counter terrorism, national security and emergency response. During the 2002 superbowl (XXXVI), my team waited in every little nook and cranny of the New Orleans super dome dressed up to our hips in level A gear. We weren't their to prevent an attack (other agencies were there for that). We were their in case they failed to do so. And so it continues to this day. Our military recently completed shipping the last of 550 mectric tons of yellow cake uranium to Canada from Iraq. Yes, you read that correctly. Everyone from Bush himself to the boots on the ground in Iraq, Afghanistan and here at home sacrifice their lives(the soldier) and their integrity(Bush)to secure the freedom and safety of this country. The next time you are attending an event such as the superbowl, Macy's Thanksgiving or Christmas day parades, take a closer look. You may catch a glimpse of those who made that event safe and possible. We have done our jobs so that the biggest worry for most Americans is who will win American Idol this year. It is up to you however to make sure the "average citizen" understands and hopefully appreciates the cost of their freedom. The best way to do this in my mind is to educate yourselves and your children on our history (non-revisionist), our Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence and hold yourselves and our government accountable to them. Personally, I feel most in congress today couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag and we've put them in charge of the greatest country in the world. Read those documents mentioned above and compare those guidelines to the actions of congress and you'll see my point.

Thomas
"...Could this have had anything to do with all the security precautions that liberals have been complaining about so bitterly, from the interception of international phone calls to forcing information out of captured terrorists?..."

Of course the intercepts may have helped keep us safe. There never was a reasonable demand they stop. There rightly was a huge clamour that Bush the torturer comply with laws. His use of torture and rendition have shamed the use and helped the enemy far more than the US. What the Bush Regime did to keep us safe was to APPEASE Al Q and Osama. They have been allowed to thrive while we disarmed by using up our military. NOW the real threat is not a possible nuclear Iran but a destabilized Pakistan falling increasingly into the hands of religious extremists. You misidentify the threat

Hal, hunny!
Read your post 3 times and it was less coherent each time. You spiking your coffee with Jack Daniels?

I for one, am extremely grateful our stupid justice system wasn't allowed to hear (yet) the cases of the monsters caged at Gitmo. Read the Geneva Convention and show me where it says we have to award our hard earned rights to unlawful combatants, not in uniform, breaking every rule of modern warfare possible. To do so would unravel our constitution, national defense, and courts.

Anyone who calls for such idiocy is an enemy of the USA. You don't know what Bush knows, but you and Wobbie's hatred for him make you reject what you don't know. I really dislike the phony Obama, but I will trust that he also takes his duty to defend and protect seriously.

His socialist, dhimmicratic, fantasy world is getting a dose of reality from WH briefings, I'm certain and not being a stupid man and already seeking re-election, he will try to do what is right for the country.

Who wants to wager
there will be an 'event' on or immediately after Jan. 20th?

I too hope Obama's ears are a-flappin' since he's been on the reveiving end of rather harsh reality in the form of briefings etc. He can't be so arrogant as to think that sipping Turkish coffee with these maniacs and using honeyed words will truly make us safe.

Or can he?

EXCELLENT,EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT

One of the best columns ever at TOWNHALL!
A great American, Dr.Sowell.

Now we come to.................................


THE RANGER: A disgrace to TOWNHALL and a disgrace to this country.

TO HAL: See note to Ranger.


Pakistan
That goverment had better wake up and deny terrorist safe havens.Somalia is the same.

roadmaster
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 7:58 AM EST Hal, hunny!
Read your post 3 times and it was less coherent each time. You spiking your coffee with Jack Daniels?"

Darn spell check, correction "...shamed the use and helped..." should read "...shamed the US and helped...". The ethnic slur was not required

"...I for one, am extremely grateful our stupid justice system wasn't allowed to hear (yet) the cases of the monsters caged at Gitmo..."

Of course you are being a frightened conservative who will sacrifice anything to "feel" safe

"... Read the Geneva Convention and show me where it says we have to award our hard earned rights to unlawful combatants, not in uniform, breaking every rule of modern warfare possible..."

The Taliban actually were NOT unlawful combatants but the military and government of Afghanistan. I do know the Geneva Convention before it was abrogated by Bush the torturer.

"... To do so would unravel our constitution, national defense, and courts..."

This is a simple lie and guess what the courts seem to be agreeing with me


roadmaster 2
"...Anyone who calls for such idiocy is an enemy of the USA. You don't know what Bush knows, but you and Wobbie's hatred for him make you reject what you don't know..."

I do not care what Bush knows because what he knows is irrelevant. Are we a nation of laws governed by a constitution or are we a group of frightened cowards willing to sacrifice anything for perceived safety? That is the question. I am an enemy of anyone who tried to trash our constitution that I pledged to protect. That may make me your enemy but not the country.

"...I really dislike the phony Obama, but I will trust that he also takes his duty to defend and protect seriously..."

Obama is a bright nice guy and has my support but only and as long as he acts under laws and the constitution.

"...His socialist, dhimmicratic, fantasy world is getting a dose of reality from WH briefings, I'm certain and not being a stupid man and already seeking re-election, he will try to do what is right for the country. "

What is right for the country is to act under the constitution and the law.

Submit or die
It is so amusing to read Hal D and the other lib trolls prattle on from the security of their kumbaya coccoons inside the wealthiest nation in human history. I do not possess any personal knowledge on the subject. But I do believe authors like Ayan Hirshi Ali or Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. A HUGE number of Muslims (maybe 10% of 1 billion) would like to see their fanatical and frightening way of life imposed by force on the rest of the world. Their motto is submit to Allah or die. I hope that Obama is smart enough to realize this fact, even if he pays lip service to silly 1970's hippie philosophies.

Excellent
Brilliantly stated, Dr. Sowell. Thanks for a great article.

Rose colored glasses and Iran
If the socialist elect continues his denial then the astute Dr Sowell will be the Nostradmis of the 21st century.

Iran and the other radicals are already flexing their military muscle without reservation and WE THE PEOPLE are the intended targets the attacks that have happened by Russia and in Mumbai are just opening acts for the crackpot in Iran and al-quieda

It's my sincere hope for this country that a tea party with Ahmadinejhad with quiet talks and cookies never comes to pass till he's jailed and sentenced to death along with Osama Bin Laden.

Troll magnet
Thanks for a great column, Dr. Sowell. I've found that the Townhall articles that attract the most trolls contain the ideas that they are most afraid of being disseminated. Naturally, your ideas are prime targets for them.

Cyclist
"I predict Barack Obama will not close Gitmo and will be aggressive against terrorism. Why? Because he will now get the same briefings that Pres. Bush receives and they will scare the crap out of him."

It's nice to know that others think the same as I do.

Face it, Bush lied, but in the opposite way that the Dems think. Things are much worse than he's been letting on. Our biggest problem, however, is the lack of will to keep our society going shown by so many people in our media and schools.

SHOOT TO KILL:
If I were a soldier fighting Taliban in Afghanistan or "insurgents" in Iraq, I would shoot to kill rather than have these terrorists shipped to Gitmo and coddled by the sympathizing ACLU and liberal nutjobs at taxpayer expense.

Why should the U.S. taxpayers pay for capturing, housing, and trials of terrorists?

If terrorists are captured, torture them by any means neccessary, get information, then chop up the terrorists and dump them in Gitmo Bay for the sharks to devour.

Keep America safe.

n2win
Since the election, I still read Town Hall's excellent authors such as Sowell and but rarely join in the discussions because of the inane writings of the loaded liberals. I thought that your post was excellent and believe every word to be true. We have a friend on the east coast who has other friends in the Capitol and while we don't get the details, we do hear of what may be coming down. Whether Americans like it or not, we have been relatively safe these past years because of President Bush. I don't trust Obama worth a tinker's da*n but, hopefully, he'll want to keep his family safe and take heed. My family certainly does not want to follow him into the netherworld by drinking cyanide.

Two things that Americans need to remember: History is prologue and a great empire cannot be conquered from without before first being destroyed from within. Thank you, Dr. Sowell, for an excellent article and thanks to you as well, n2win for a compelling response.

Great Article - Once More
Thank you once more for such a great article. Please keep up the good work, especially now. We need voices like yours now more than ever.

They want our soul-- and if they are wil
You say "they are willing to die"-ok, let us help them. When the muslims danced in the streets of Israel and the West Bank on 9/11 we should have realized there is NO dealing with those people.But the weaklings of the west could not see it. They want us dead or subject to sharia and no amount of Politically Correct prattle will mollify them.

We can take all the security measures we want and they can hit us-a way will be found. We have to hit them, hit them hard and make it too damn costly for mom and dad jihadist to hide junior and his weapons. The old colonialist understood this.

Surrendering our essential liberties is not the way to harden Americans to war. I fear the Patriot Act will cow our people into NOT seeing threats. International phone calls is one thing-we need to and have a right to know what is coming in to our country. But the rest of it (Patriot Act) is even more scary now with a President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder. It was a bad piece of legislation passed in panic.


So Hal...
Where do you stand on gun rights? The so called "fairness doctrine"? Private property rights?
I suspect that like most liberals. the Constitution is something your take out and dust off when it suits YOUR purposes.

Liberty or Death?
The words of patriot Patrick Henry ring loudly today, with a minority of today's "flabby", decadent Americans, that is.

I have little respect for the likes of these kinds of liberals who both dislike Bush and react when confronted with the realities of terrorism and the potential for a kind of World War Three someday (probably over oil). It runs against their grain.

Places like San Francisco, Seattle, or Portland, Oregon are epicenters of such liberal silliness and flabbiness. What these creeps intend to do first (before a nuclear Iran) is disarm the local populace and reduce their freedoms.

So I actually welcome nuclear terrorists who might in the process of destroying America first destroy some of our worst cities, those dominated by so-called secular progressives. I won't be crying if Portland or Seattle get nuked some day. In my view, they already have it coming.

What's more, I won't get in Mustafas way either. "Paybacks are a mother"! Alternatively, what goes around eventually comes around.

Our Leaders
I've got news for a lot of you out there. Washington does not reflect the views of millions upon millions of red blooded PATRIOTS like myself. Our leaders may not be willing to fight and die for America but I'm hear to tell you I could go walk down my street in small town America, knock on 20 doors and produce 50 armed citizens ready to take on any terrorists or tyrannical government. My philosophy is that we (meaning people who care about this country and the constitution and its principles) are "allowing" all of this to happen, as in reality, we run the country, Obamamaniacs can say what they want, "we the people" pay the bills and pay the price of freedom, now, and in the future. We aren't afraid to, as our forefathers weren't. They might be cowardly political idiots, but not everyday America, us. When they start trying to take away our guns, look out.

Rome
Some of the reasons the Western Roman Empire died include:

- Opening their borders to a mass immigration of allegedly peaceful aliens (the Goths) coupled with a failure to integrate them fully into Roman society.

- Believing themselves so powerful that their military could be neglected because no one, certainly not those friendly Goths, was going to attack based solely on Rome's reputation.

- Turning the Legions from one of the great military forces in history (including present day) into a rag-tag bunch of individuals of questionable loyalty. Rather than being solely manned by Roman citizens, by the 4th century, anyone within Roman borders, including Goths and other barbarians who were Goths first and Roman Soldiers second. Soldiers loyal to themselves or their "people" or "Community" before the country on their uniforms will never make good soldiers.

- Entertainers (gladiators) became more and more influential, and politicians became more and more corrupt. Further, the politicians made extravagant expendatures in order to improve national morale and private industry, which was suffering because of a bad economy, was unable to make those morale changes themselves, particularly after being taxed dry.

- The enemies of the Romans were even more brutal than the Romans themselves, and cared naught for the destruction of cities, just so long as they got their pillage and plunder.

Those who say that the Empire died because of Christianity should take note that the Christian Eastern (later Byzantine) Empire survived and prospered well into the middle ages (only to be taken over by power-hungry Muslims.)

Craig
Hmm....I beg to differ from you on this.

I will be saddened if Seattle gets nuked, only because the landscape around it is beautiful and is one of my favorite outdoor places. I have been hiking in the Cascades and in the Olympic mountains and it's gorgeous.

As far as the wackos that infest the city of Seattle, good riddance, but please don't harm the landscape.

LOL

Just musing ........
I am a moderate; neither, Republican or Democrat – simply an American! I am made as heck at the current liberal Democrats! Should a terrorist tragedy occur because the liberal Democrats stripped our terrorist security, I suggest we consider our own terrorist attacks on these liberals – literally! Otherwise, it will occur again & again until the USA no longer exists!

Dhimmitude
"What they want-- is our being brought down in humiliation, including self-humiliation."

It's called dhimmitude.

Mumbai is an example of Sowell's earlier quote, "There are countries where [hyping race and ethnicity] has led to slaughters in the streets, but you cannot name a country where it has led to greater harmony.”

America has a short memory
Excellent article Mr. Sowell. Liberal America is in ignorant denial of the WMD threats this country faces with a nuclear Iran. "Short Memory Syndrome" is a liberal only disease. It will take weekly events of burning wreckage and falling bodies with a collapsed economy before liberals stop blaming George Bush for the deep boned and centuries old hatred that radical Islam has for America.

Destruction might be a good thing.

Just like Bankruptcy may be the best thing for the auto industry, Destruction of the United States might be the best thing for us now.

We are not the same nation we were 200 years ago. We no longer share common values. We are no longer a nation of laws but of men.

We spend a great deal of time debating, and arguing over some pretty simple and easy to solve problems. Its inefficent and usually results on some compramise that doesn't really fix the problem.

Liberals want high taxes. Total dependancy on Government. No personal accountability. strick government control of business, industry heatlhcare, education, and social development.
Conservatives do not.

The destruction of the United States may well be something to embrace.

Addendum,
Israel, during the days of Jerimiah and shortly after the days of the crucifiction and ressurection of the Christ (70 AD), was uttertly confident that nothing, Babylon nor Rome could take away God's Temple.

America's freedom is bought and kept at a cost. When it is taken for granted then it is not worth preserving by the ones who've enjoyed it.

God change America's heart.

These liberals
are like the lacey, wigged, powdered, pro-British all night dancers of 1776. While George Washington was frozen, starving and up to his knees in mud fighting for their freedom they were partying with British troops.

Our souls.
"They want our soul-- and if they are willing to die and we are not, they will get it."

I am quite willing for them to die. I don't think we have to volunteer for dying but we do have to be aggressive in the pursuit of their death and destruction.

So Patriotism Means Love of Government?
Methinks Dr. Sowell is reverting to some of the assumptions of the communism of his youth (which he quickly threw overboard, to be sure).

The Constitution limits the power of the federal government, period. The Founders knew that war and fear would always be used as pretexts to undermine our freedoms.

We have suddenly become a socialist state, courtesy of Bush and the Republicans, and their gift to Obama. He can now claim virtually unlimited power. To "protect" and "help" us, of course.

Dr. Sowell, after a little more of this, what will there be left to defend?

Nathan
You got it right. We believe that every family should be able to help to defend our country. And to anyone who puts down the men and women overseas, I have to tell you that I thank our higher power for their very existence.

Happy Jake
Everything you said is true and well noted by this reader. (Your post, however, sure doesn't reflect your name...lol)

American Resolve
“They want our soul-- and if they are willing to die and we are not, they will get it.”

The simple sad fact is that every new generation is treated as though they do not have what it takes to win if we are attacked and every single time we find ourselves embroiled in a war our young soldiers, marines, airmen and sailors prove more than up to the task. Do not underestimate the resolve of the American people or the courage of our fighting men and women.
It seems to take a tragedy such as Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Lusitania or the 9/11 attacks to get us in a fighting mood. We may well be in for a new tragedy in the form of a terrorist attack on the U.S. with a WMD, but we will rise up and carry the fight to the enemy, because that is what Americans do; we fight back.
The best thing for us as a nation to do is heed the Roman adage:

“Si vis pacem, para bellum!” This translates as "If you want peace, prepare for war!"

Open letter to the POTUS elect
On the basis of the Honorable Dr Sowell's letter, I demand you enforce the Consititution and protect all Americans from enemies foreign and domestic. While I have contempt for the money and tactics you used to win, You are now my president and I will hold you accountable. May God bless America.

Be real.....
Americans are way more aware than Sowell predicts. Just look at the way we have united in the past (most recently in the election of Obama) towards a common goal to change things.

Every American who can read--knows that Bin-Laden is snookering about in Pakistan gaining funding and planning attacks and training new Al Qaeda recruits. There are enough remote areas (and lack of military air controlled space) between the Pakistani badlands and regional countries in order to continually provide moral support, collect financial donations from supportive Sheiks and Mullah's in the region.

Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
Great idea...why don't you step to the front of the line?

I have a great deal of faith in Americans that are realistic and not he!! bent on promoting their ideas because they can act. We need to be as vocal as possible with our government to ensure that we are not left out to hang and dry.

Actually, the first to be beheaded and then reorganized should be the Liberal Media.

5 Stars for sure
Why is it so hard for lefties to understand that we have to protect ourselves? I write on an environmental blog about Yellowstone, where I spend a great deal of time. To listen to the liberal enviros whine and cuss President Bush, you would think we had hidden devices in all our houses spying on us. To them getting another species on the ESA is all that matters, and they really do not care about our safety.

Second thoughts?
Sowell writes:

"Will the horrors unleashed by Islamic terrorists in Mumbai cause any second thoughts by those who are so anxious to start weakening the American security systems currently in place...?"

Here's the problem. In order to have a second thought one must first have a 'first thought'. "[T]hose who are so anxious to start weakening the American security systems..." aren't having thoughts at all; first, second, or otherwise. They aren't thinking, period.

They are only feeling. They are still angry that Bush beat Gore in 2000. Their actions are not actions, they are reactions. And they are reacting to their feelings; anger, hate, and fear that any conservative initiative might succeed in a way that will force them to admit it was the right thing to do.

The silver lining in all of this is that Obama will not dare withdraw from Iraq now. The war was won in time to force Obama to finish it successfully. No matter what this liar said on the campaign trail he is not going to allow a military defeat to occur on his own watch in a war that even the left has been grudgingly forced to admit was won under Bush.

In fact, the only way the left can continue to bash Bush on Iraq is to complete the victory and then say it would have happened sooner if Bush hadn't 'mismanaged' it. The fact that this current position of the left is in direct opposition to their claims in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 that Iraq was an unwinnable "quagmire" will be washed down the memory hole, with help from their sycophants in the so-called MSM.

Dr. Sowell, thank you again for
shining the light of wisdom on this tragedy. What is amazing is that the leftists can't or won't see the truth and realize that we are following the path of the Romans to a tee! Happy Jake is correct in his analysis of why the Romans were conquered and it is scary to see the moonbats determined to force the US down the same disgusting path.

The Obamination was elected because they wanted "change". Change from the greatest nation on earth to what? They are worse than "useful idiots" as they are useful only for the destruction of civilization.

Unity?
We can not have unity with these liberals. They hold beliefs that are in total opposition to our own. They have been working for nearly a century to destroy what this country stands for. They hate God, His statutes, Truth and individual liberty. They love collectivism, elitism and worship phony science.

We have been able to live with them and stand against their ways because in the past we have been protected. Our constitution is no longer able to do it's duty because no one in this country cares about anything except their fair share and buying votes. We have become a nation of low-lifes. Why? Because our Federal Supreme Court decided to leave their appointed station and invade our public schools. They made laws usurping the power of the States. Now our children no longer think or read. They are no longer respectful of God nor are they given adequate knowledge. Our Congress could not, so The Supreme Court did. Evil elitists establishing their evil religion across our once great country.

Curtal Friar
You said that if Seattle gets nuked, good riddance to the people, but please don't harm the landscape.

Seems to me that I recall that this was what the neutron bomb is supposed to do: kill people while leaving property intact.

So if we want to see some of our most unredeemably liberal cities depopulated without harming the landscape, maybe we ought to hope that if Islamic terrorists get hold of WMD's, it's neutron bombs as opposed to conventional atomic bombs.

N2win, I agree
The only people in congress we see on the media are the blowhards in both parties. As a group they can not only "not manage themselves out of paper bag" but most of them can't find one. This stimulus package is an example. I am heartened by Pres Elect Obama's selections so far. Not that they are great, but at least he seems to understand we are is a dangerous world with a congress that is only interested in the next election. I wish he would just listen to men Like Dr Sowell. then I would know he is getting the best advice around. After 9-11 I thought they have waken a sleeping giant and we would do WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO GET THEM. We did for a while. Looks likes we are going to sleep again. The media tell a great bedtime story with all of their negativity. I hope we wake up again.

Submit or Die
Spot on again, Dr. Sowell. I've been reading the Koran thinking that somehow I could find a middle ground if I only I knew what the problem is. Well, the problem is that I am not Muslim/Islamic. The only way to apease these terrorists is to convert. And if we don't want to convert? Then we must die. There is no middle ground. Convert or die, it's that simple.

The Meaning of Mumbai
Fear distorts the thinking process (all strong emotions do). Freedom is the Holy Grail; let's not throw ourselves in jail. Still, prudent measures are needed if there are checks and balances and a "just right" approach is used to counter the threat. For instance, the inelegant mess that is airport security does not make us substantially safer; too many weaknesses to be exploited by the bad guys but it is unmitigated hell for all law abiding citizens. Overall, I'm rather skeptical that government will "save us". Haven't they screwed up everything they've touched? The more effective "layer" we can create is individual vigilance and appropriate response. Citizens need to train for awareness and exercise it. If we don't let government subjugate us like sheep then we are less likely to be led to slaughter. Desperate times require desperate measures but they should be measures we control not inept government even though they have a role too.

One of the biggest deterrents
to a ground attack on the USA is The Second Ammendment.
Even 9/11 could have been derterred if the right-to-carry laws hadn't been so restrictive. Yes, a shoot-out in an aircraft might bring it down, but it more likely would not have reached the intended target.
The 2nd Ammendment is being applied in reverse.
A proactive aproach would be to train people to use firearms starting in grade school with pellet guns and increasing size and power through 12 grade. The Swiss example shows that it reduces accidents by removeing most of the novelty factor.

Fear not
Some time ago I heard that President-Elect Obama will keep in place all the surveillance mechanisms that Bush put in place. This is not because they are necessary or right (and always have been) but because they will give him "flexibility."

As we saw in his election tactics, "flexibility" serves Obama well.

This morning I heard a newsman opine that conservatives have feared all along that Obama would govern from the far Left; now the far Left fears that Obama's is a third Bush term.

I submit that it's a little early to guess, since Obama has not signed one piece of legislation nor directed regulators to increase regulation of one thing.

Ya know, the "Fairness" Doctrine could easily be effectuated by regulators at the FCC with no congressional vote, no presidential signature. Did a congressional vote mandate our low-flow faucets and semi-waterless toilets? I don't recall. (I do believe Congress voted to outlaw incandescent light bulbs; I don't know if they have reconsidered that particular mandate. It probably depends on who will make money on the new, eco-friendly bulbs.)

Yep, keep worrying about government listening in as you chat with your terrorist friends overseas. Then you might not notice what's being done to you at home.

The Meaning of Mim bai
While I agree that we have improved our security somewhat since 9/11, this is not the reason why we did not have any other terrorist attacks on this country.They are smarter then we give them credit for and in order to distract us, they did horrible things elsewhere.As they keep saying, it is not the question if they will attack us again but when.We, as in almost all cases,will react to something unexpected because we never thought of it before the fact.God help us that we are smart enough to get to them before they get to us.

Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
This poser who claims to be a "Jeffersonian Constitutionalist" writes that the destruction of America is something to enbrace?

I wonder what he would replace our great nation with? A country ruled by him where only those who think like him would win elections?

What about a country where the President could send forces to fight Islamics overseas with an authorization for use of force NOT a declaration of war? Cause President Jefferson did just that.

What about a President that establishes a FEDERAL college funded by taxpayers and free to those who go cause Jefferson did that also.

What about a president who spends Billions (in todays inflation adjusted money)he borrowed from FOREIGN BANKS to expand the Nation in an empire building scheme that even he acknowleded might not be constitutional? Because Pres Jefferson did that also.

Now Jefferson was one of the greatest American statesman and Presidents EVER to that I will agree. however before anyone says that MY country should be torn down I want to know what they will replace it with.

And yes even though I HATE the election of Liberals they are part of the cycles that MY country goes through and will survive.
tinsldr2@yahoo.com

Joedoc
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 8:53 AM EST Subject: So Hal...
Where do you stand on gun rights?..."

I have zero problems with guns. They are tools like any other tool.

"...The so called "fairness doctrine"?"

I don't think this matters fundamentalist conservatism is dead and doesn't know it yet and communications diversity is running rampant in our autos now so it isn't an issue like when radio was all that was available. It is a non issue to me

"...Private property rights?"

I have them LOL

"...I suspect that like most liberals. the Constitution is something your take out and dust off when it suits YOUR purposes."

Nope it is something I will defend with my life

NYC, Chicago, and LA?
Add San Francisco & Seattle to the list and our Liberal problems will be taken care of!

Sowell wrote
"Millions of lives were blighted for centuries thereafter, because the barbarians who destroyed Rome were incapable of replacing it with anything at all comparable; neither are those who threaten to destroy the United States today"

Actually, nine of the ten barbarian tribes which sacked Rome learned something from the Empire and actually built nations (which are still around); the descendants of two of these tribes would 1300 years later establish an empire (British) which in some ways SURPASSED the Roman.

By contrast, the Islamists have a mindset only of destruction and oppression--with no desire whatsoever to learn from West, and obfuscation of Islam's historical shortcomings. Indeed, such an idea (refusal to learn from West, obfuscate on historical shortcomings) was behind the Pakistan movement in 1900-1947 British India.

Self defense ...
Could this incident ended with fewer lives lost if the population was armed? Disarm the people ... make them sheep. Chicago is on the same path ... ban guns ... crime is so bad that they had to bring in the state police to support the Chicago police dept. It's time for concealed carry. It's not about macho ... it's about survival.


Hal Donahue????
Colonel Donahue, did you bump your head this morning?

Your repsones to Joedoc were actually quite good. I agree with them.


Mumbai Pirates?!!
Just imagine the 9-11 type horror that could be inflicted by the capture and methodical destruction of one or more luxury liners!

Think about that for a second.

Think about the frustration the world has had simply in trying to stop the inept Somali pirates, let alone a determined, well planned and equipped outfit of terrorists out for blood.

And in this case, it seems to me, the only real defense right now is to catch such plans when they're in the making. You can't arm all the passengers; I doubt the liners would arm themselves; and there wouldn't be enough time to send in the Marines once the ship is taken.

Cutting back on ANY of the Bush Administration's defensive measures would be utter foolishness. We even need MORE.

Excellent Column...
Those who believe that the Terrorists only hated us because of Pres. Bush are in for a rude awakening. It defies logic that these people don't emember all the attacks on US targets prior to 9/11 or the lack of them since.

I for one am grateful for the relative safety of the last seven years and fear what the New Administration's appeasement policies will bring to US.

For Stan @ 11:00
This is probably precisely why the terrorists went after hotels, railway station and Jewish Centre instead of offices of Shiv Sena, MNS or VHP despite of their stated hatred for Hindus--all of those orgs have private goondas (who aren't exactly hidden) to defend them from others' goondas.

Tinsldr2
:Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 10:34 AM EST Subject: Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
...I wonder what he would replace our great nation with? A country ruled by him where only those who think like him would win elections?...And yes even though I HATE the election of Liberals they are part of the cycles that MY country goes through and will survive..."

Well and truly said and we agree on all but that hating election of libs part LOL Seriously, I hope you are well

Excellent as always Dr. Sowell...
I'm so proud of President Bush and all he's done for our great country. Without his efforts, only God know what would have become of us. Thank you Mr. President!

As for all those who choose to call The President these sill names, they're simply aging school yard bullies. They haven't anyone to pick on anymore so they come to message boards and masquarade as patriots with hurt feelings, screaming that their rights have been infringed by The Patriot Act and that awful man in the White House.

The lessons of Mumbai are simple and clear.
Wake up or die.

We must remain vigilant and determined to eradicate terrorism from the earth. Terrorists don't want our money, they don't want our freedom, they don't want our SUVs... They want The World! They want to convert the entire world into an Islamic State. If that means killing you, no problem. For you will have only 3 choices - convert, become dhimmi, or die.

We may have to fight the radical muslims in our streets... We may have to fight each other over which course to take... We may have to fight our Congressmen if they don't 'wise up'... But, it surely looks as if we're going to need to fight somebody - and sooner than later.

I've been wondering what it would feel like to trim the tree of liberty. I'm preparing for that very opportunity.

It's the economy stupid
The economic chaos that grips us right now is going to be the total focus of Obama and his administration. Obama will be so busy, as Rahm Emanuel said, "not letting a crisis go to waste,” that all this foolishness of national security will just have to take a back seat.

And, while Obama is away, the terrorists will play, more plot and plan their next attack on a preoccupied America. Not that such a probability will hold sway with Obama; he will be too busy running our car companies.

BiasedGirl
You said, "Those who believe that the Terrorists only hated us because of Pres. Bush are in for a rude awakening".

The entire Mumbai terrorist attack should convince even the most fervent Bush-hating leftie - if he/she is still capable of seeing reason - of what you wrote.

The fact that the Mumbai terrorists dispatched fully 20% of their force - 2 out of 10 terrorists - to attack an inconsequential Jewish community center and torture whoever they found there speaks of a mentality that even the most hard-core Bush hater would have trouble explaining in the framework of Bush-hatred. Even if we accept the fact that the Mumbai attack was designed by its perpetrators to hurt India economically, how did the attack on the Jewish community center POSSIBLY further THAT objective? There was absolutely NOTHING strategic about THAT facet of the Mumbai operation: this was purely ideological. And the kind of ideology that's quite independent of WHO is occupying the White House at a given moment - unless of course that occupant shares the dream of the Islamist of wiping Jews off the face of the earth.

If the Mumbai attackers wanted to sow fear among India's non-Muslims that their places of worship could be a target if their government pursues certain policies, why didn't they target a Hindu temple - where they surely could have run up the death toll far beyond what it finished at?

No, the targeting of such a small blip on the Indian landscape as a Jewish community center by the Mumbai attackers pretty much eviscerates the rationalizations of Islamist terrorist appeasers in the West as to what we're facing in them and what actually motivates them.

JD's Handsome Son
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 11:03 AM EST Hal Donahue????
Colonel Donahue, did you bump your head this morning?

Your repsones to Joedoc were actually quite good. I agree with them.'

don't go all gushy on me the devil is in the details isn't it?

William
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 11:26 AM EST Subject: HAL Danahue
hi Hal
how are you doing? "

Great and you? I am trying to make suggestions to the Obama folks about DOD and soon VA. What do you think so far of the appointments so far?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/the-department-of-defense_b_149127.html

Thomas Sowell has them pegged.
I'd take it a lot further. I consider them traitors.
I guess it had to happen. The 'Me Generation' mentality is being manipulated successfully by our 'Me First' Gov't.
When does 'Freedom of Speech' become treason? Or suppressing it? While not the best example, I'll use the Media's handling of the General Election.
I get prompt and reasonably accurate info cruising the Web, reading Brit, Aussie, Jap, Chinese, Israeli, Iran, Iraqi news.
I may see it 2 to 3 days later in USA papers unless it's a major crisis. Of course crises get attention.
I've had access to precise prices per barrel of oil for +/-2months now based on Iraq's budget and their info on others' budgets. Now that OPEC is talking about production reduction some Media attention is given to price per barrel.
Etc






Obama's Instant Decline
The far left wants desperately to strip away all of the anti-terrorist protections implemented under the Bush administration. If Obama is stupid enough---time will tell--to cave to their demands and we are attacked under his watch, his legacy overnight will be the POTUS who failed on the basic Constitutional duty to defend and protect the American people. NOTHING he does pre- or post- that attack will salvage him and legions of Bush haters will pine for the days when America was safe under Bush. Let's see if Obama can muster 100 IQ points and jump this intellectual hurdle.

William
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 11:26 AM EST Subject: HAL Danahue
hi Hal
how are you doing? "

Great and you? I am trying to make suggestions to the Obama folks about DOD and soon VA. What do you think so far of the appointments so far?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/the-department-of-defense_b_149127.html

The denialists need to watch
The sound of Music, Miracle of the White Stallions,Gettysburg and Red Dawn in that order.

While they're concerned about the feel good aspect of the Terror threat this will be a slow progressive jolt of "wake up stupid" Then it needs to be followed up with the footage from 9-11 and the aftermath.Then live action graphic footage from hotspots in the sandbox...

Then after they throw up ask one simple question...

On their land or ours...

Your pick because this is what Bin Laden, Russia, and the Iranian fruitcake want to bring here.


Hey Hal & William

Standshisground
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 11:30 AM EST Subject: BiasedGirl
You said, "Those who believe that the Terrorists only hated us because of Pres. Bush are in for a rude awakening".

Whoever believes that is a fool and I have heard no one claim that. I have heard and agree with the statement that Bush the torturer actually took actions that aided the recruitment and growth of terrorist organizations

Dr. Sowell! Once again
you have written a very damning article.
I am particularly impressed with the following excerpts:
"Too many people refuse to acknowledge that benefits have costs, even if that cost means only having no more secrecy when making international phone calls than you have when sending e-mails, in a world where computer hackers abound. There are people who refuse to give up anything, even to save their own lives."

"The destruction of the United States will not require enough nuclear bombs to annihilate cities and towns across America. After all, the nuclear destruction of just two cities was enough to force Japan to surrender-- and the Japanese had far more willingness to fight and die than most Americans have today."

Perhaps Harold (Hal D's real name) can convince Barney Frank to leave DOD's budget alone and also use his vast military experience to influence the soon-to-be fearless leader to forget about scraping our missile defense program.

For Standshisground
Actually, there was some method behind the allocation of 2 hellhounds to the Jewish Centre.

In 1971, one of the batallion commanders of Indian Army's Eastern Command (which went into East Pakistan to assist the indigenous--composed of East Pakistani police, paramilitaries, some military personnel and lots of enraged civilians--Mukti Bahini in liberating it from Pakistani rule) was J(ack) F(rederick) R(obert) Jacob, a Kolkata-born Jew (who later--1975 to 1978--actually served as GOC of that Command). Pakistan propaganda in 1972 (and afterwards due to the twisted mindset of much of Pakistan which refuses to learn from its past) actually claimed that India "had humiliated brave Muslim officers by forcing them to surrender to a Jew" (reality: Pakistan's military was revealed to be Naziesque, cowardly and undisciplined; also, photos of 1971/12/16 Ramna Racecourse show Jacob standing in a line of officers--including India's then Air Force and Naval Eastern Commanders as well as some Bangla officers including Col. M.A.G. Osmani and Grp. Capt. Khondakar--witnessing the document signature). So, in their mindset (which, unfortunately, is par-for-course amongst Islamists) killing of Jews constituted revenge for that.

Primus54
"...Why don't you two take a look-see at this TH article:

http://townhall.com/News/NewsArticle2.aspx?UrlTitle=ill_gov _arrested_in_obama_successor_probe&c=us&dt=12/09/2008&page= full&comments=true&submitted=true

Is anybody really shocked about this? "

I am not nor do I think Obama is. He comes out squeaky clean according to the article. Maybe we should elect his candidate.

More for Standshisground
Pakistan has also been known for propaganda that Israel assisted India in clobbering Pakistan in 1971; OBL is particularly known for spewing about "Zionist-Crusader-Hindu conspiracy" (unquestionably learned from Zia and Akhtar Rehman who sheltered him 1981-1988 for the pretence of fighting Soviets in Afghanistan).

The Meaning of Mumbai
Dr. Sowell,
You have your fingers on the pulse of terrorism and terrorists. I would like to see a thumb on the neck of our president-elect administration's policy makers and his far left extremist supporters.
The world is a large playground full of bullies. Asking them to stop is asking them to stop again and asking them to stop again and again and again...
Telling them to stop and with real consequence and real action gets their attention.
President Bush protected us on his watch from a position of strenth. President Obama must do the same on his. Give no quarter.

svpallava
svpallava:

I remember you telling me in a post several days ago what you spoke of in your post of 12:12 pm. And I won't disagree with you that in the minds of the terrorists themselves, there was "method to their madness" in attacking the Jewish community center in Mumbai.

The point I was simply trying to make, in affirming BiasedGirl's comment, was that this facet of the Mumbai terrorist attack presents a real challenge to those who would try to shoehorn the Mumbai atrocity into the rationalization that it represents a reaction to Bush Administration policies. And there are certainly many of the left who believe that Islamist terrorist attacks these days are NECESSARILY born out of purely such a motive.


willibeaux
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 12:02 PM EST ...Perhaps Harold (Hal D's real name) can convince Barney Frank to leave DOD's budget alone and also use his vast military experience to influence the soon-to-be fearless leader to forget about scraping our missile defense program."

You don't like my formal first name???? LOL geesh what can you find next? LMAO

Obama and his administration will do what is best for the nation not what looks good or feels good ala' you folks. Watch. As far as the budget same applies.

Hal Donahue
I presume you're saying that those who believe that terrorists hate us strictly because George Bush are fools. Well, YOU'RE the fool if you believe that there AREN'T many on the left who believe PRECISELY that; hey, there are still plenty on the left who think the Bush Administration itself has been responsible for all the terrorist attacks attributed to Islamist terrorists since 9/11 and probably believe that includes Mumbai as well (such as that adjunct professor Barrett at the University of Wisconsin a few years ago). I should think you've seen enough rantings by left-wing trolls on this site over the last several months to have seen the truth of this.

You also said, "Bush the torturer actually took actions that aided the recruitment and growth of terrorist organizations". Well, I'm sure America's attacks on the cities of Nazi Germany during WW2 created a great deal of anger and negative reaction toward Americans on the part of Germans where it hadn't existed before. Boo hoo hoo. We weren't trying to win the hearts and minds of these people, we were trying to convince them that to continue their war was going to be suicidal for them - as we did. When you fight back against someone who previously was used to bullying you, OF COURSE the bully will have the kind of negative reaction to you he wouldn't have had previously. The issue is, will fighting back force the bully to change his actions or reduce his threat to you. Islamists may hate America much more during the Bush Administration now that we're taking the fight directly to them than they did during the Clinton Administration when we weren't - but I notice they haven't attacked us again on our soil since 9/11. And not for lack of desire to do so, either. Even with all these new terrorist recruits that the Bush Administration has supposedly pushed into the waiting arms of terrorist organizations.

William
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 12:14 PM EST Subject: HAL ...It's easy to call the plays from the comfort of your couch
This is a mess he coming into and I for one do not envy his job
I do trust you had a great Thanksgiving"

But do jump in we are not "dittoheads". Read below my friend, Christine's thoughts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christine-pelosi/obama-never- promised-me-a_b_149593.html

Standshisground
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 12:41 PM EST Hal Donahue
I presume you're saying that those who believe that terrorists hate us strictly because George Bush are fools. Well, YOU'RE the fool if you believe that there AREN'T many on the left who believe PRECISELY that;..."

There maybe be some but certainly no responsible leaders

"... hey, there are still plenty on the left who think the Bush Administration itself has been responsible for all the terrorist attacks attributed to Islamist terrorists since 9/11 and probably believe that includes Mumbai as well (such as that adjunct professor Barrett at the University of Wisconsin a few years ago)..."

Responsible? Like did it? The Bush Regime policies of appeasing terrorists has allowed them to attack else where and spread but responsible is a stretch

"... I should think you've seen enough rantings by left-wing trolls on this site over the last several months to have seen the truth of this..."

Have you seen what some of the rightwing regulars have written LOL

Sorry to deviateNow we have
another "honest" Democrat about to be indicted for corruption. Surprise, surprise that it's the Governor of the soon-to-be fearless leader's home state.

Lets just face facts

Liberals and democrats are gutless cowards and will never stand up for their country. Why do you think 90% of the military consider themselves conservative and/or republican.

The bravest libtards ever get is 'keying' cars with McCain/Palin bumper stickers.

William
My Thanksgiving was superb and the holiday season looks even better. How about you?

Thank you, TS
for another brilliant, and sobering article.

Thanks Dr. Sowell
Thanks for the reality check. It's incredible there are people who can look at Islamists' real time indiscriminate terrorism on their own on television and STILL think there is no threat to us here in the U.S. This willingness to ignore the Islamists' own words, proclaiming their desire for our demise is the ultimate in denial. If ever there was a litmus test for elected officials this should be it. No one having this "denial" mentality should ever hold public office.

Corndog
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 12:59 PM EST Lets just face facts

Liberals and democrats are gutless cowards and will never stand up for their country. Why do you think 90% of the military consider themselves conservative and/or republican."

Hmmm guess what nearly half of both military and veterans voted for Obama. I for one am a proud Democrat and I have most definitely stood up for my country. Have you?


Yo Harold!
(Hal D's real name). You are always bragging that you are not afraid to use your real name on these threads. If Harold is your REAL name, you are not exactly being truthful are you?
Keep posting your inane and mindless drivel Harold. You get funnier every day.
BTW! I wonder if your soon-to-be fearless leader is getting a little edgy since his governor may be in hot water.

Hal Donahue
You asked about what I said about how there are those on the left who believe the Bush Administration is responsible for the terrorist attacks attributed to Islamic terrorists, "Responsible? Like did it?"

YES, I MEAN "LIKE DID IT"!

I've already given you the name of ONE person who believes this (and if there's ONE, there are surely many more): Kevin Barrett, who was until at least a couple of years ago on the faculty of the University of Wisconsin. And since the class he "taught" at UW in which he presented the proposition I alluded to above was a FOR-CREDIT class at the university, then his viewpoint was sanctioned by the university administration. Which goes to show how the "responsible leaders" on the left you alluded to so often act: while they may not themselves OPENLY PROFESS the more outrageous nuttiness of many leftists, they do nothing to discourage them and even often lack the courage to publicly totally disassociate themselves from them. How many "responsible leaders" on the left right now, for example, are condemning the outrages acts of "protest" (such as the vandalization of Mormon churches) of gays furious at the passage of Proposition 8 in California and taking gays to task about this?

William
"Just because they have not hit our soil does not mean that we have contained them in anyway."

I imagine if your car gets blown off the freeway from a terrorist bomb, you will decide there is a HUGE difference between American interests abroad being attacked and being attacked here at home.

William in NJ
You said, " if we are attacked , will blame be warrent5ed on the next administration ? No".

Thank you for revealing the double think with liberals, many of whom put full responsibility on the Bush Administration for not preventing 9/11 (start with Kristin Breitwiser and the rest of her Jersey Girls if you want examples in specific) - and yet who apparently believe that the Obama Administration should not be held accountable for failing to prevent terrorist attacks under ITS watch.

Just more proof to me, and I'm sure to many others who post on this site, that liberals are utterly unserious about national security.

Well, fine, be that way: it figures to be many more of those on YOUR side of the political spectrum who will be filling the body bags from any Islamist terrorist attacks on American soil during the Obama Administration than on MY side.

Hal Donahue

21 years in Naval Air.
In harms way numerous times.
How many days in the Salvation Army did you do?

85% of the officer corps voted McCain/Palin. The only demographic of the military that obambi did take the majority of was black service members. Yeah it wasn't a race thing.

strange
After the first world trade bombing, there were 8 years until the second successful bombing. And since 9/11 it is safe that al qaeda killed more americans than the did between the two world trade center attacks (I put it that way because it is hard to know exactly how many Americans al qaeda linked fighters killed in Iraq but clearly more).

And yet conservatives who blame Clinton for 9/11 think that Bush has done magic in getting similar or worse results. And Sowell describes this as an unwillingness to deal with the facts on the left.

willibeaux
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 1:13 PM EST Yo Harold!
(Hal D's real name). You are always bragging that you are not afraid to use your real name on these threads. If Harold is your REAL name, you are not exactly being truthful are you?"

I have only used Hal my whole life (my father was Harold) Last year when I had surgery the recovery room nurse told my wife I was unresponsive could she try. You got it I responded immediately to Hal the nurse was using Hal. I was being truthful. By the way it doesn't bother me at all

"...I wonder if your soon-to-be fearless leader is getting a little edgy since his governor may be in hot water..."

Why? He is honest

Lon

Riddle me this.

How many American civilians have been killed and buildings been damaged/destroyed on U.S soil by Al Q since 9/11?

Corndog
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 1:25 PM EST Hal Donahue

21 years in Naval Air.
In harms way numerous times.
How many days in the Salvation Army did you do?"

20 years Air Force fighters. Thank you for your service

"...85% of the officer corps voted McCain/Palin..."

That was an unscientific military times poll that they from the beginning said was unscientific. Check how the areas around the military bases went and several poll companies stated the military vote was split near even. I was part of veterans for Obama and I know how much of the military and veteran community received Obama

Whether Liberal or Conservative,
when the time comes, we'd all better be willing and ready to put our differences behind us and stand up for America. United we stand. Divided we fall.

Please keep that in mind as all the mud is flung over the internet. Harsh words are easy to come by. Keeping us all safe and alive is another matter.

Standshisground
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 1:21 PM EST Subject: William in NJ
You said, " if we are attacked , will blame be warrent5ed on the next administration ? No".

Thank you for revealing the double think with liberals, many of whom put full responsibility on the Bush Administration for not preventing 9/11 (start with Kristin Breitwiser and the rest of her Jersey Girls if you want examples in specific) - and yet who apparently believe that the Obama Administration should not be held accountable for failing to prevent terrorist attacks under ITS watch."

First I do not agree 9/11 was all Bush's fault but I do believe he has responsibility to some extent. If an attack happens on 1/20 it is not Obama's fault if it happens 6 month latter his administration will have some culpability etc

"...it figures to be many more of those on YOUR side of the political spectrum who will be filling the body bags from any Islamist terrorist attacks on American soil during the Obama Administration than on MY side. "

Just like the first 911. We are the targets and you folks live in fear. How do you explain that?

Hal "LMAO©" Donahue writes:
"Why? He is honest"
-----

Man... are YOU naive!

He may have NOTHING to worry about on this governor mess, but to believe "Backtrack" Obama is "honest" is the epitome of having blinders on.

Not your finest comment, Hal.

"LMAO©"

Hal The enemy Collaborator.
Then you don't think our Government should take defensive measures to protect citizens from terrorist attacks on American soil?
Is that what you are trying to imply?

ANYONE who thinks a nuke is needed to destroy a city is unaware there is an unconventional explosive nearly as powerful as a nuke.
It lacks stability for military or commercial use but it certainly does not lack power.
Ingredients can be purchased "over the counter for cash".
Does this information make you feel safer?

And we have 12 Hamas cells scattered all over America?

And you don't think we need to keep our guard up?

Think again
It is time to think again about this issue. Mr. Sowell helps us do this with this collum. To bad most americans won't. Makes me wounder how many will die before we do.
Side note to hal donahue, What unit did you serive in, and the poll I saw was not unscientific. History show that the military votes republcan 80% to 85% of the time.
Kirk

Patriot Act
Someone please tell me a legitimate right we have lost from this one security measure. Serious? Name one!

A group of computers monitors international phone calls for key words and phrases (I know this because my pastor used to be an Army counter-intelligence agent and this was one of his projects). No human being listens to your conversations unless the computers flag them as suspect and the level of tolerance for suspicion is pretty high. So, we're talking about 1/2 of 1 percent of international calls are ever reviewed by a human and, according to my pastor who knows people who listen to these calls, about 90 percent of the ones that are listened to NEED OUR ATTENTION. In other words, the computers are doing a great job of flagging terrorists. The other 10 percent are often times novelists/screenwriters and the mentally ill discussing their fantasies. Maybe these are of lesser concern, but you know, the whole point is to protect our country from another terrorist attack and here we are, seven years in. So, what other "rights" (not that I think planning terrorist attacks should be a right) have we lost? Someone give me an actual example from your actual life. If you can't do that, stop complaining!

I've about had it, Hal

I (we) put up with enough from you and your side about many things, but I've had it with your "you folks live in fear" bullscat.

Wanting to do ANYTHING to safeguard citizens' lives and property on HOME SOIL from these Islamic nut-cases is not about "fear".

It is about the prime directive of what we are supposed to be able to expect from the federal government.

It is amazing to me that a veteran of ANY ideology wouldn't know and support this instead of using it as a ploy to score political points in a comment thread.

Disgusting, Hal.

To William
While it is true that America would not be much of a place without LA, NY, SF, etc., it is also true that those cities would not be all that great without the rest of the country either. You see, it goes both ways. Those cities are what they are to a large extent because of what the rest of the nation is; they do not exist in a vacume. These cities have benefitted from the freedom and conservative principles that built this country. They thrive because of free-market capitalism; they are protected by a strong military and they rely on business from everywhere to sustain their infrastructure.

Primus54
"Not your finest comment, Hal."

I agree. Hal's finest comment was when he claimed Abraham Lincoln protested the Black Hawk War and that Teddy Roosevelt protested World War I. He then tried to wiggle his way out of it by saying that Roosevelt actually protested the Punitive Expedition against Pancho Villa and cited a New York Times article as "proof." Unfortunately, the article was dated 1914, and the Punitive Expedition was in 1916.

Just wait. Hal will deny that he ever said these things.

MyOpine
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 1:55 PM EST Subject: Hal The enemy Collaborator.
Then you don't think our Government should take defensive measures to protect citizens from terrorist attacks on American soil?
Is that what you are trying to imply?"

LOL come on you know better than that. What I am saying is Bush the torturer could have done a better job and remained well within the law. He went wandering off the reervation claiming that as Commander in Chief he had the preponderence of power. All he did was let Al Q go and become stronger


Hal The enemy Collaborator.
I understand what you say!
What you say, usually varies greatly from the truth.
There is no reason for you to continue defaming Bush with lies.

Starting with your lies about the NRA and Law Enforcement.
You claim to have worked in Law Enforcement and to have been an NRA member who spoke at NRA Banquets.
You called the NRA a Right Wing Extremist organization that is anti-Law Enforcement.
If you had ever been an NRA member or a member of Law Enforcement you would know the NRA is ONE (1) issue only.
Whether the source is left or right is immaterial, firearms is the only issue. If you had ever been an NRA member you would also know that FDR & JFK were both NRA members
If you had ever been an NRA member or worked in Law Enforcement you would know most Rank & File Law Enforcement are NRA members and closely allied with the NRA.
Other than politicians, it is rare to find Rank & File Law Enforcement that is anti-gun.

Why did you lie and pretend to be an NRA member?
Why did you lie and pretend to have worked in Law Enforcement?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1st version), You said both Israeli & Palestinian soldiers, (plural), broke down and came to you and cried in your arms.
(2nd version), An Israeli soldier, (singular), broke down and cried in your arms.
I don't know what you were trying to say but what you actually did say is that you have never been close enough to sustained combat to be familiar with the symptoms of combat fatigue.

I think your entire life consists of pickling your brain in alcohol.
You are a fat lazy drunk who has to invent a fantasy life because the only real life you have lived was in a bottle.

Kirk
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 1:55 PM EST ,,,Side note to hal donahue, What unit did you serive in, and the poll I saw was not unscientific. History show that the military votes republcan 80% to 85% of the time..."

That is a little high hstorically but it began to change in 2004 and then really improved through the 08 election. The Republicans are now in serious danger of losing the entire constituency

Another "gem" from Hal:
"All he did was let Al Q go and become stronger"
-----

When someone believes this statement, further argument is a waste of time because one is dealing with a totally brainwashed moron.

Hal Donahue
You said, "First I do not agree 9/11 was all Bush's fault but I do believe he has responsibility to some extent. If an attack happens on 1/20 it is not Obama's fault if it happens 6 month latter his administration will have some culpability etc".

You don't believe 9/11 was all Bush's fault, huh? Then why don't you try convincing a lot of your Kool-Aid-drinking political soul mates of that? And as far as Obama's administration having some culpability for any Muslim terrorist attacks that happen on American soil after he's sworn in? Do you REALLY think Pravda dba The MSM, or ANY office-holding Democrats worth speaking of, or almost EVERY liberal who posts to THIS site, will be doing anything OTHER than putting all the blame for any attack on George Bush - even if an attack happened on the next-to-last day of Obama's second term? Come on.

You also said, "We are the targets and you folks live in fear". Well, Primus54 said it all in saying, "Wanting to do ANYTHING to safeguard citizens' lives and property on HOME SOIL from these Islamic nut-cases is not about "fear"." Any more than it's "living in fear" to expect one's local police force to do a reasonable job of keeping one safe in one's local community from criminals. AND YOU CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN A POLICEMAN AS WELL AS AN AIR FORCE OFFICER! I'd never have guessed it if I was reading your posts for the first time today. And if you've been reading the posts of myself and many other conservatives on this site recently, you'd have noticed that WE'RE not losing sleep about potential terrorist attacks under Obama's stead because many of us don't live in places we figure are high-priority targets of Muslim terrorists - unlike many of your liberal brethren. Look at the last paragraph of my 1:21 pm post.


Primus54
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 2:01 PM EST I've about had it, Hal

I (we) put up with enough from you and your side about many things, but I've had it with your "you folks live in fear" bullscat.

Wanting to do ANYTHING to safeguard citizens' lives and property on HOME SOIL from these Islamic nut-cases is not about "fear"..."

Oh I really think that it very much is when you accept torture and rendition as policy and appear willing to accept a president's apparant breaking of laws

"..It is amazing to me that a veteran of ANY ideology wouldn't know and support this instead of using it as a ploy to score political points in a comment thread..."

The difference is I strongly and not without countterrorism experience believe that almost everything that Bush has done actually helped the terrorists. He may have tried but he was incompetent.

What I find amazing that while we sit on the targets you demand the apparant action. The only speculation I can do says fear must be the answer. If it isn't what is

Disgusting, Hal.

Hal Hal Hal

The nice men in the white jackets say it's time for your meds. You are seriously delusional if you think the military is sliding to the left.

Regarding your veteran status; I hate to burst your fantasy world bubble, but ringing a bell outside of a Walmart does NOT constitute military service. Although in some neighborhoods it might be considered "Hazardous Duty."

MyOpine
Yet, I was a police officer and I was an NRA member. The NRA has become an extremist organization out of touch with America. That is why new organization are beginning

Primus54
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 2:23 PM EST Subject: Another "gem" from Hal:
"All he did was let Al Q go and become stronger"
-----

When someone believes this statement, further argument is a waste of time because one is dealing with a totally brainwashed moron. "

Hmmm yet US Intelligence and DOD state that Al Q is stronger and bigger than on 911. The facts speak for themselves

Just Curious Dr Sowell
Just Curious
Dr Sowell's rant is as usual more of his "fear mongering" and makes little sense. He concludes that what the Bush administration is doing has kept us safe from another attack in the United States. Strangely enough he makes his bold conclusion without knowing what Bush is doing. His article premises is that someone wants to weaken America's Security Systems. Really? And What security systems is he writing about?

He cites two programs: monitoring international calls and Guantanamo where in his words we are holding all those terrorists. First no one is against monitoring some calls so long as there is court involvement. from the snippets of info that has been leaked we know something is amiss with this program since it was used to monitor the conversation of troops in Iraq with their loved ones in the States. What does listening in on phone sex calls between 2 U.S. citizens have to do with making us safe?
I would ask Sowell if Guantanamo houses all those dangerous terrorists why have we released most of them without charges of any kind? Btw what makes them terrorists? Apparently, it's because we say so. Sowell apparently wants them to prove they are not a terrorist without having access to the information that said they are a terrorist. The brilliant Sowell must know circular reasoning when he sees it. Btw people of every political stripe want Guantanamo closed. Secretary Gates said recently let's get on with it, and just close the place. Wow, who knew Sec Def is a liberal.

Meaning of Mumbai
Folks:
Terrorest like to kill. Reason?? Nothing on T-V, Bored, Seems like a good idea etc. They love misery and want to make sure everyone is myserable as well.

Inventor.

Hal The enemy Collaborator. RE: #136
You don't know anything about the NRA and are obviously lying about being a member.
You Don't know the Law Enforcement position on civilian firearms and are lying about being a member of Law Enforcement.

You continually post absurd conjecture about the NRA and Conservatives without posting your source.
Since you frequently tell lies it is logical to assume these are lies too.

When you post a statement that my be contested, you should post a link to your source.
Like if I said Obama helped an Islamist Dictator gain power, I would add;
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 78324

Post links to your sources.
It will lessen your tendency to fabricate.

MyOpine

Brilliant !!!!
I absolutely howled at the "add a link" salvo you leveled at Weird Harold.

I seriously doubt he has ever served in the air force as well. The only wings he's ever worn were on his 'Tinkerbell' costume.....last Halloween.

William the FOOL
You need to add links to your CONJECTURE too!
Now if you, or any other loonie Leftists do not like the links we post here at TH, you have my permission to take your LIES, INNUENDO and FANTASIES back to CodePink where you belong!

Corndog
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 2:35 PM EST Subject: Hal Hal Hal

The nice men in the white jackets say it's time for your meds. You are seriously delusional if you think the military is sliding to the left."

Keep thinking that but I said Democrat not left if I didn't that is what I meant

"...Regarding your veteran status; I hate to burst your fantasy world bubble, but ringing a bell outside of a Walmart does NOT constitute military service. Although in some neighborhoods it might be considered "Hazardous Duty."

google me

William
Bend over and Hal"The Puke" Donahue will sneak up and stick you in the rear. You deserve it.

CharletonHeston
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 3:13 PM EST Subject: Hal Donahue
Coward, Traitor, Militant HOMOSEXUAL. You make me sick you stupid PUKE. I bet you have Sexual fantasies about being with GWB in a dark sweaty room with a jar of Vaseline. Cheers

Just my opinion "

LMAO are you saying you are gay? Are you hitting on me? I mean I know your name sake was an actor and all...

Y'all can soon relax
The Wall Street Journal Online had a column the other day which stated that Bush has kept us safe. This column elicited a large number of comments stating that 9/11 happened during Bush’s first year in office and that 9/11 was Bush’s fault: he was warned that bin Laden wanted to attack us on our soil, therefore he should have stopped the attack. (As I recall, right up to 9/11 Bush himself was under constant attack by Democrats insisting that he was NOT elected and standing in the way of any actions at all that the “selected” president tried to take.)

According to Joe Biden, Obama has been warned that some manufactured crisis will occur, within the first 6 months of his administration, I believe he said.

Now that Obama is aware of the coming crisis, there is no doubt in my mind that he will stop it from happening. We are so lucky to have such an intelligent and beloved leader who WILL make the world love us. Heck, he's so darned good he might even make us love each other!!

CharletonHeston
Notice how William boasts of his many gay friends?
He also uses NAMBLA buzzwords.

This is why they support Obama.
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2008/09/barack_obama_se_1 .php

William
A link is certainly required when you question someone's source.
IF YOU WE NOT A LIAR YOU WOULD PROVIDE A LINK!

Will you watch Obama on a video and still deny the truth?
This is an 8 minute video that takes a while before Obama is brought into it.
Please go to the added trouble.
Frightening!
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5411

And we do understand you here.
All Conservatives are aware of this!
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=7271 8

William
What amazes me is how these "manly men" keeping chatting about gay guys. Does make you wonder I know but hey maybe they are getting ready to come out of closets not that there is anything wrong about that

Are YOU coming out of the closet Hal?
We have long suspected you.
Your mannerisms of speech are often effeminate.

MyOpine
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 3:49 PM EST Are YOU coming out of the closet Hal?
We have long suspected you.
Your mannerisms of speech are often effeminate. "

LMAO, LOL you are a piece of work old timer, a real piece of work. thanks for being you LOL

Opine, concerning Hal
It would seem to be you, not Hal, who is ignorant of today's NRA. They are more about raising money and compromising on gun rights (mostly about the money). I'm still a member but am putting my support into JPFO and GOA.

Repeatedly calling Hal a liar is counterproductive and makes you sound like the troll in this commentary. Hal sounds more conservative than you for all of his being a Democrat. You're more of a neocon.

My own position is Libertarian, now that the "conservatives" have run away to strange parts over the last fifty years. You guys should give up this oppressive neo stuff and come back to the fold.

And 90% of the "Patriot" Act sucks.

Hey Harold! When you
applied for membership in the VFW, did they take your word as an "officer and gentleman" that you were eligible? I bet they made you provide a copy of your DD 214. Is this requirement to join the VFW more critical than becoming President of The United States of America?
Now you say your soon-to-be leader is honest. He can show that he is by providing a copy of his birth certificate. This will clear up once and for all that he is a natural born American. What is he hiding?
Until he does he is an illegitimate impostor.
In the meantime, for your sake, I sincerely hope that he doesn't get caught up in his Governor's transgressions. Have a great day Harold.

Mario
"Hate filled conservatives... Rant, rave, whine, complain, cry... "

And this differs from hate-filled liberals... how?

Brian1
Libertarian?
You agree with them on legalizing sex with children?

Hal considers the NRA to be extremists for the exact same reason you think they are too moderate.
I think they can do more too.

Hal also hates the Boy Scouts because they won't accept NAMBLA for Scout Masters.

As to Hal being a liar?
I have caught him in almost as many lies as Wobbie.
That is why some people confuse him with Wobbie.
Are you going to take up for Robert now too.

Just what are YOU doing that you consider so productive?
Changing coats?

Mario
Which guys are "you guys"??

Brian
You are wasting your patience responding to Mario.
He will soon be accusing you of "slamming Canadians" too.
I think he is some kind of head case.

To everyone in general
I have a confession to make. I'm a guy, too. Can I join the conversation?

Opine
Legalizing sex with children? When did you decide libertarians were in favor of that? When conservatism ended and neo-con police-statism began? It sounds like the typical accusations against libertarians coming from both sides of the aisle.

Is Hal gay and advocating that everyone else try it or are you throwing out ad hominem in an effort to kill the messanger? As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to have to stay with what he has posted on this particular thread and not bring in unlinked and unverified accusations from elsewhere.

But maybe Hal would be willing to verify your nasties. He seems to be truthful in his views here and now, so maybe he'll confirm what you are saying.

Your style and attitude remind me very much of a particular rabid liberal who posts on a forum I sometimes visit. The resemblance is startling! 8^D

A Seven Year Olds Wisdom
My seven year old son asked me a great question a few days ago about California's gun laws, making ownership of an AR-15 illegal. When my precocious son asked me if the police were allowed to own an AR, I told him yes, his next question was "if the Police can why can't Danny (a good friend), I know Danny and he isn't bad, but I don't know the Police.

I told him, "good point"..... why trust others with what they don't trust us to have!


Opine & Judith
"wasting your patience responding to Mario"

I have some free time right now and he is funny.

"I have a confession to make. I'm a guy, too. Can I join the conversation?"

You are welcome to horn right in, fella. :~)

Judith
"{Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 4:42 PM EST To everyone in general
I have a confession to make. I'm a guy, too. Can I join the conversation? "

well my head is spinning around. That is TH strong point most people can. LOL

Brian 1
Lol...I just couldn't resist.

Brian1
Here is who I am. No to sex with children or whatever else my pal Myopine has to say

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue

What you see is what you get

Thanks Dr. Sowell
A powerful message for the wise. Unfortunately all too few exist in Washington, which is near the top of their murderous, hate-filled list by the way. These murderous terrorists just love to kill and torment humanity. It helps them maintain their 1,000 year disadvantage in civilization.

May our leaders be far better than Sen. Christopher Dodd and Rep. Barney Frank when it comes to this.

Excellent Article, Dr. Sowell
Hopefully, as Obama continues to slowly repair his dough-headed comments toward the Bush Administration, he will, also, do as well. So far, its starting to look a lot like Bush II on the security front. Good for him. Good for us.

Judith
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 4:53 PM EST Subject: Brian 1
Lol...I just couldn't resist. "

LMAO thanks I needed that LOL

Brian
I heard Libertarians want to repeal Age Of Consent Laws.
I did not save a link.
If I run into it again I will save it for you.

As to Hal's credibility?
If you are gullible enough to believe him, you have that right.
Please do not be so arrogant as to presume you can tell me to believe him.
AND;
If Hal starts an insult contest with me and you side with him then;

One thing we do agree on;
I could not vote for either candidate for President!

Judith
Lol right back. Have you ever posted as Mary Rosh or John Lott?

William
You can be a sissy here if you want to but when addressing me, please do not use the term "We" unless you are pregnant.

Opine
The Libertarian Part (capital 'L'):
http://www.lp.org/

There are a lot of variants in libertarianism (small 'l'). Many of them are opportunistic philosophies that avoid personal responsibilities in a search for anarchistic 'freedom'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism


Hey My Opine! Have
you noticed that the ex LTC USAF (ret almost RIFFED)desk jockey has a bunch of new friends? If you scroll down, you'll see that he is trying to impress them by bragging that he was a fighter pilot for 20 years. Is there something about Harold that is new? I wonder. Maybe we are not showing him the respect that he thinks he deserves.

William
I don't give a rodent's rectum what you do or do not believe.

If you expect me to give your conjecture credibility then post links to your sources.

You evidently are too apathetic to investigate your own candidate.
If you don't think Obama is a Communist, look for yourself
Make this search;

Saul Alinsky + Barack Obama

willibeaux
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 5:30 PM EST Hey My Opine! Have
you noticed that the ex LTC USAF (ret almost RIFFED)desk jockey has a bunch of new friends?...Is there something about Harold that is new? I wonder. "

Yes there is a bit actually I finally came out of the closet and told gunnyg et al that they were full of it. That seat you keep talking about buffing was an ejection seat. I have wings with star WSO, primary AFSC 1555C. Also, I was promoted early not almost riffed. Now that the election is over I can "be me" LOL

William
You keep posting unverified spew as though you can invent your own facts.
If it is true then you can surely post verification.
If you fail to post verification then I will assume you are posting fiction!
I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO LIKE MY LINKS!
I do not post them to please you!

As to your mirth?
Small things amuse small minds like yours.

Hal
Huffington Post - eewww!! Too rarified and liberal for my blood - even though my ancestors are from PA. LOL

I'll stay mostly with my small-town stuff like Drudge and http://webx6.ableminds.com/go/

Hey Harold! By all
means now that the election is over be "you". Is that why you were "passed over" for the "elusive bird" because you were promoted early?
BTW Harold! I never called you a seat buffer.

William
We are well aware you have been trained to attack the messenger with lies when you can't dispute the facts.
SEE?
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=7271 8

Sowell is correct - unfortunately.
I say "unfortunately" since it is only a matter of time before the terrorists do strike again here. Will they hit a football game? Will they blow up Washington? (I'm not sure that would be a big loss.) Will they blow up several major cities?

What will you do to stop it? What would you have your children do? Or will you do what Oliver Stone said was the only option: Give up?

Hemingway commented one time, "There are worse things in the world than dying while defending freedom ... and if you don't defend freedom you will find out what every one of those things are."

He is right too.

William
HEY STUPID!
LIST YOUR SOURCES!
You are just making up FICTION!

You attack my sources with LIES but you are too cowardly to list your own sources.
Do you get that crap from DialyKos?

Is it as reliable as the usual leftist lies?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/palin_smear_of_ the_year_baby_n.html

Dr. Sowell
Don't you know that Pearl Harbor was the result of Hiroshima and Nagasaki per Rev. Wright? America is the bad guy. We only stopped having slaves and genocide against the Indians a few years ago. We should open our doors and let the Zarqawi wanna-bes come in and cut our heads off to relieve our guilt. That mean ol Bush is the only reason that hasn't happened. The world hates us and now he's caused us to go broke. Thank God, Barack has come to save the day.

Brian1
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 5:44 PM EST Hal
Huffington Post - eewww!! Too rarified and liberal for my blood - even though my ancestors are from PA. LOL"

LOL I am not certain but think I am their resident moderate. Honestly? I really like the folks

"I'll stay mostly with my small-town stuff like Drudge and http://webx6.ableminds.com/go/"

Don't know able minds but hey where you land is where you land LOL

willibeaux
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 5:48 PM EST Hey Harold! By all
means now that the election is over be "you". Is that why you were "passed over" for the "elusive bird" because you were promoted early?
BTW Harold! I never called you a seat buffer. "

Matters not, enough of your friends did LOL. How do I break this to you: well I guess straight up: I left long before I was even eligible for that bird.

Hey Harold! Thanks
for being "straight up". Have you had a "Damascus Road" experience? What made you decide that "honesty" is the best policy?
BTW! Which Scranton watering hole are you posting from?

India vs. Pakistan
I was actually hoping that India and Pakistan went to war... and brought out the nuclear weapons as well. That would just be the first step towards peace on earth... and we all know what that means right? No Middle East... no Islam. Period. I do not embrace a religion that does nothing but bring terror and death to that of Christians. The entire Middle East is thankful John Mccain isn't our Pres, because he would have the balls to drop A-bombs on those people anytime, anyplace. God willing.

Hal
You gotta be very moderate! I'd never give so much money to either a Democrat or a Republican.

I'm not too familiar with Specter. Is he a moderate too?

But Kerry? You must have been really desperate to get rid of Bush (not that I blame you). Still, I'll probably always believe that Kerry is basically a gutless wonder.

We don't seem to have any good choices any more.

willibeaux
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 6:07 PM EST Subject: Hey Harold! Thanks
for being "straight up". Have you had a "Damascus Road" experience? What made you decide that "honesty" is the best policy?"

During the campaign it was about Obama and hit away at me. Obama won so now it matters not. It should not be about Hal but I won't be low profile"

"BTW! Which Scranton watering hole are you posting from? "

Sigh none. I am at home working on something for Obama

The terrorists? Boom!
The new administration is not serious? Boom!' Just hope that you're not too close.
In Israel there have been lots of 'booms.' and lots of bleeding. Has Israel stopped making more Jews? Can a bunch of 7th century fashion mavens do what Hitler could not?
In the states millions of people have been maimed and killed because of cars. Every single American family has some terrible story. So what is our govt. doing? They are giving Detroit billions. Our leaders, facilitating terrorism? One man's terrorist hybrid another's freedom fighting SUV!
Uncle Sam does not want you to walk to your coming indentured servitude.
In many of our major cities and states, their government's say, "You are all crazy, untrustworthy savages." The result? Mostly only vocational rapists and thugs have the tools to defend themselves with at work.
Terrorism. 'Boom!'
In Mexico, just this year, 4 to 5 thousand people have been killed in the drug wars. Wars between people who valiantly fight to be first to supply your kids and mine with high quality feel good products. 'Boom!'
Terrorism? It's been here for years and we have mostly ignored it. Unless we are black, or red, or yellow, or ugh...Gay.
Organized religion came up with it first.
Three cavemen, a bear and a rock altar. Soon "Fuzzy Wuzzy" was shunned and had to go! Later the Christians took over but just lately a lot have wimped out. I'll bet many are sorry now.
It's us. All of us. It's us trying to make sense of lives that have a built in sell-by-date and always end tragically. It's us taking the bad with the good. Sinning and being sinned against. Trying to put off check-out for as long as we can and hoping we get a chance before we go to flip everybody off...just before we whisper a fervent, "I'm sorry!" Ya know, just in case?
Terrorism? If it scares you, change channels.
'Boom!'

William
Like a true student of Alinsky, you attack the messenger because you can't dispute the message!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 78324

This is an 8 minute video that takes a while before Obama is brought into it.
Please go to the added trouble.
Frightening!
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5411

You have said NOTHING to dispute the FACTS in these links.

As to you trying to prove you are an Academic nothing?
I know you are a vacuous nothing Academic.
You don't need to demonstrate your irrelevance.
POST LINKS OR RETRACT YOUR LIES!

Matt
"Date: Dec 9, 2008 - 6:12 PM EST Subject: India vs. Pakistan
I was actually hoping that India and Pakistan went to war... and brought out the nuclear weapons as well. That would just be the first step towards peace on earth... and we all know what that means right? No Middle East... no Islam."

And you call yourself christian???? Know anything about nukes? Ever been in the military?

"...Period. I do not embrace a religion that does nothing but bring terror and death to that of Christians. The entire Middle East is thankful John Mccain isn't our Pres, because he would have the balls to drop A-bombs on those people anytime, anyplace. God willing."

You are a true fundamentalist conservative????

Hey Harold! When you
applied for membership in the VFW, did they take your word as an "officer and gentleman" that you were eligible? I bet they made you provide a copy of your DD 214. Is this requirement to join the VFW more critical than becoming President of The United States of America?
Now you say your soon-to-be leader is honest. He can show that he is by providing a copy of his birth certificate. This will clear up once and for all that he is a natural born American. What is he hiding?
Until he does he