Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, August 13, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Whose "Special Interests"?
by Thomas Sowell
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


We take it for granted that a vote means a secret ballot but it was not always that way. Moreover, it will not remain that way for workers who vote on whether or not they want a labor union, if legislation sponsored by Congressional Democrats and endorsed by Senator Barack Obama becomes law.

Before there were secret ballots, voters dared not express their true preferences if those who watched them vote could retaliate-- whether by firing them, beating them up or in other ways.

Anyone who is serious about people being free to express themselves with their votes wants a secret ballot.

The problem for labor unions is that workers in the private sector increasingly vote against being represented by unions. The proportion of workers in the private sector who are represented by unions has fallen below 10 percent.

Since unions are losing the game under the current rules, their obvious answer is to change the rules. Specifically, they want to do away with secret ballots when the government conducts elections to determine whether the workers in a particular company or industry want to be represented by a union.

With labor unions being major supporters of the Democratic Party-- spending hundreds of millions of dollars in this year's election campaign-- it is hardly surprising that Congressional Democrats have lined up solidly behind legislation to let union organizers simply collect signed cards from a majority of workers, in order to be certified as the officially recognized union for those workers.

Of course, the union organizers will then know who did and who did not vote for them. And they may have long memories or short fuses, or both. Moreover, the workers themselves know that, so they may find it prudent to sign up for a union, whether they want one or not.

This legislation passed the House of Representatives last year but did not make it through the Senate. "I will make it the law of the land when I'm President of the United States," Barack Obama has said to the AFL-CIO.

Senator Obama has also said many times that he is against "special interests." But, like most politicians who say that, he means that he is against other politicians' special interests. His own special interests are never called special interests.

Neither are the environmental extremists who support the Democrats called special interests. But the green zealots who have for decades blocked the country from using oil within our own borders-- more oil than in Saudi Arabia, by the way-- are also among the special interests with a big voice in the Democratic Party.

They are also a major factor in shutting down the democratic voting process-- in this case, in the House of Representatives, where Speaker Nancy Pelosi refuses to allow a vote on drilling for oil in places where the green zealots don't want drilling.

The Congressional Democrats could of course vote to continue forbidding drilling in those places. But voters paying $4 a gallon for gas are not likely to agree with the green zealots-- and recent polls show that they do not.

Rather than lose votes in the November elections by voting with the green zealots, or lose the money that the green zealots contribute to the Democratic Party coffers, Nancy Pelosi simply shut down the House of Representatives, so that there could be no votes, and turned off the lights so that C-SPAN could not broadcast Republicans' speeches protesting what happened.

After all, what is democracy compared to support from the green zealots?

It is the same story when it comes to the teachers' unions, the biggest special interest of all in the Democratic Party. They not only contribute money, they can contribute people who walk the precincts on election nights, rounding up the faithful to go vote.

Even the Congressional Black Caucus dares not vote for vouchers or any other form of school choice that the teachers' unions oppose. Better to let a whole generation of black children be trapped in failing schools that employ union teachers.

But special interests? Not at all.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Thomas Sowell and Townhall.com's daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
Tyranny
...thy name is Democrat!

Dr. Sowell,
You made a mistake in your final paragraph. It isn't a whole generation that is lost to the failing schools. A school "generation" is at most twelve years. Even six lost years condemns a child, irrevocably, to failure. I think it must be five or six generations that have been failed!

Yes.
But I am not sympathetic to anyone afraid to openly cast a vote for what he believes in. Union hustlers need to look into the face of the opposition & see what they are up against. Threats & intimidation need to be dealt with then & there.

pb
While it is easy to say you are 'not sympathetic' to anyone 'openly afraid' it is quite another to be a widowed mother, trying to support fatherless children, beign forced to stand up and risk personal safety and to endure threats against her family leveled by 'caring' union members by voting against the labor union movement.

A secret ballot should and must be preserved as a founding principle of our freed society. It doesn't matter if you are discussing a political election or a union vote. Anything short of complete protection of the secret ballot invites thuggery and corruption.

For me, certainly, I would have no qualms about standing up to union, political or employer thugs. And if threatened I, like you, would take care of the problem by standing up to it. But there are those who, because of circumstances they cannot control, are and probably should be, afraid of such thugs.

Ballots MUST be Secret
Stand up to thuggery? ARE YOU NUTS?

Don't forget, the unions have entered an unholy alliance with organized crime. They never did find Hoffa's body, did they?

The ballots MUST be secret. There just is no other way.

Yes.
My agreement with Sowell stands: a secret ballot, by all means. But I have to admire the Lech Walesas & Walter Reuthers who stood up to thuggery, openly, and thus left the world a much better place than they found it.

Nuts? Maybe. But I've been in a room full of gutless people. I prefer nuts.

special interrests
Personally I say let's vote Thomas Sowell for president!(if only we could!)


Shouldn't be even considering it
The very thought of elimiminating secrret ballots should be hateful to real Americans. How can we ingore history and take such abominable steps as to propose the elimination of secret ballots where Unions are concerned? Do these people have a conscience at all? Do they have brains? This is wholly unbeleiveable in America. Not acceptable on any level at any time.

Just follow the money....
The big green meanies have the paranoid public in the palms of their hands and at the same time lining their pockets...

Catch Phrase #1..Global Warming,eco-fuels,wind power..check out the names of the major stock holder..ie, NAZI Pelosi

The teachers unions say they're the only ones capable of educating our kids....

Catch phrase #2..No vouchers,no homeschool,no charter schools,

Teacher unions (NEA) think un-credentialed is unqualified...they however are proved wrong by Homeschool test statistics and charter school test stats, time and time again. (neither of which have to be "qualified")
While they (teachers/unions) enjoy tenure, automatic pay raises,medical coverage, and a host of other benefits, as well as the ability to mind numb, indoctrinate, and dumb down our kids.
Check out the NEA's website on their vision of schooling and be prepared for a shock...(I homeschool,village my patootie)

It's easy to buy politicians anymore though there are so many loop-holes that they've (politicians) have it set up, under the guise, of being legal..This year the proof is in the democratic Congress...Just follow the money


I agree..
It is evident how more important the desires of one's campaign contributors becomes over the interests of the public..with the consequences affecting us all.

Don't Forget....
The largest and fastest growing special interest of all, the AARP. You'd think that people who have lived the majority of their years would see the danger in banding together and demanding special favors be voted to them out of the public treasury. But NOooo, we old geezers also send our own lawyers to Washington to demand our piece of the collective pie, our sucks from the teat of mother government.

Anyone who's over 50 has had their mailbox flooded with invitations to join the AARP (How do they find out our age?).

And while I'm on this rant, who decided that a pimply faced teenager at the cas register of a fast food restaurant can glance at me, judge me to be a "senior citizen," (Lord, how I"m beginning to hate those words), and immediately deduct 10% from my tab without even asking me.
The only thing worse is hearing the guy in the next line (who probably has more money in his pocket than all the teenagers behind the counter will make that day) ask for a "senior coffee!"

No, we have the people in Washinton we deserve. We send them there to represent us, to bring back as big a slice of bacon as they possibly can. If the slice isn't big enough, we'll vote them out. The enemy isn't Washington - it's US.

First the Unions
First the Unions then the rest of the country. Make no mistake abut it they would eliminate secret ballots in all elections tomorrow if they could. Hey it worked in the USSR and Cuba I am sure they could make it work here.

Cyearout
I share your disdain for AARP. I do not understand your ire at hearing me ask for a senior coffee. I take advantage of tax deductions without necessarily approving of them, too. There are times to be Quixotic, but turning down discounts is rarely one of them.

Cyearout
Amen again...I am 73, and AARP's agenda is NOT my agenda! I shudder when I see their commercials on TV.

Asking for Senior coffee is not like
asking for precription medicine coverage. The company is doing it, not the government.

Would you feel the same way about 'standing up to thuggery' IF the person collecting (and watching you sign) is packing a gun? AND they make sure you see it first? I HAVE SEEN IT. And now demand secret ballots.

The Problem
There is no opposition party in this country.

Not standing up to the global warming hoax, but nominating a supporter of this power grab,

Not using the one bully pulpit they have left to get the word out to Americans how the left is trying to curtail choice - whether in balloting, gun ownership, use of private property, or a hundred other issues.

Indeed, private property is sacrosanct, and the basis of our freedom. It's also a political winning issue - I know some liberals but none of them want others dictating the use of their private property. But the not a peep out of the Republiwhigs on this issue - think of how good it would've been to try to get through an amendment overruling Kelo - even if it didn't work it would force the Dems to vote against it.

Think of how good it would be if Republicans had been supporting rational supplies of energy all these years. Maybe there would've been a short term cost, but now we'd be proven correct and would have overwhelming support from people paying $4 a gallon - people who are going to vote for Obama because of the Republiwhigs' kissing up to the greens in the 90's

Someone please form an opposition party.

Obama
This, in and of itself, should disqualify Obama from the Presidential race. Any man who favors the Soviet-style election process for ANYTHING is unqualified to run a democratic country. If he thinks that unions ought to have public ballots, why shouldn't he think that people ought to vote for senator or President on a public ballot?

I favor voter identification when you get to the polls, but I also favor that little curtain they put behind you when you vote.

Amazingly
It is those same special interests that whine, cry, and scream that everyone else is picking on them. They insist the "religious right" if forcing school prayer" despite the fact that kids are not allowed to pray. Then insist ranchers control congress when ranchers have been driven to the wall from being forced to halt production or have their livestock sacrificed to protect all sorts of "endangered" species from mice to wolves hauled in from Canada.

pb
You think looking someone in the eye is enough?

Good on you. I have friends that had their tires flattened (nails in their driveway) shots fired through their windows and caused a permanent family split between two brothers, just because our friend put working and supporting his family above doing the bidding of the union strikers.

Unions are dinosaurs. Obama is a Marxist that believes in strong arm tactics and control over the proletariat.

Secrect Ballots are sacred, IMHO. Since when should someone not have the right to vote their conscience without fear of intimidation or retribution?

Lady Pier
Write-in campaign. I'd do it.

Dems Special aggenda is.................
themselves....
I have heard this many times from friends who vote Democrat repeatedly and my sons in-laws, who are devote Democrats, and though they say they tollerate me, I love to here them bash the unions.
While each works in a field with a strong Union presence and powerful enough to aford them high salaries, they really hate them.
They shop non union stores because they are cheaper, they buy foreign cars which cost less to buy but more to fix. Toyota, Honda and Nissian charge by the part to fix your brakes.
Yes they do up here in NEOhio, each spring, nut, bolt, washer and brake pad, with a labor rate to go with it.
But back to the Dems, while they enjoy the benefits of the union negotiated wage they get, the major out cry is haveing to pay the unions dues to get the job as they put it. No it is to get the wage they wanted.
So by allowing the Unions to see who votes for them and who does not, it returns the country to the Twenties and thirties of the last century and new fights struggles and plant closings.
Do Democrats even think of America as a nation or their personnal property. This new bill will keep technology from getting off the drawing boards and into the market by American Workers. It means more jobs going oversea's, less income to be taxed and more debt for America.

The Unions and Secret Ballots
Out of principle, a democracy is run on secret ballots. The Unions have single handedly ruined American Industries. Why do you think the concept of NAFTA came out. The Unions made such outrageous demands for themselves mostly that they forced companies to look off our shores for markets that could actually make them money and not fleece their bottom lines. Look at the most competitive of markets our car industries and detroit in particular. Their constant demands made other markets like Brazil, and Mexico an ideal place to send our vehicles to be assembled. Assembly lines in the U.S. had to close because of unions. On top of that the ensuing unemployment. Look at India and other job markets who benefitted from our Union Representatives they are thriving...Has anyone ever met an unemployed union rep? Did they, the union leaders loose their jobs? NO the american people did. For all those remaining industries fighting to become unionized...look to empirical evidence. You might be shooting yourselves in the head.

Getting an Education
Great article. I have gotten a first rate education over the years simply reading your articles, Dr. Sowell

Thanks

Unions are Dinosaurs....................
Mrs. Paddy
Location: CA
Reply # 19
Date: Aug 13, 2008 - 8:30 AM EST Subject: pb
You think looking someone in the eye is enough?
............................................
In this post you said unions are dinosaurs and What?
Unions may be old but are a necessity for many skilled trades, but not everyone.
If I need a plumber, I am thankful he is union, I hate the wage he gets but glad my toilet flushes and does not leak. When I buy a house I thank the carpenter union and others that my home is built correctly and is safe to live in.
But is a retail clerk going to save me time, money or discomfort, no! Or A teacher going to teach school any better, NO!
so we do need some unions but not others.

No surprise
Democrats and Obama want to alter voting processes? Why am I not surprised, when:
- The Democratic primary was essentially a slightly lopsided tie that was decided by party big-wigs with more voting power than the average person has.
- The Democratic SoS in Ohio has suddenly changed election laws selectively in urban and college heavy districts to favor the Democratic base and creates a massive voter fraud loophole. Sure, change the law first and solve the loopholes later.
- Pelosi unilaterally decides to ban votes and shut down Congress in defiance of 74% of the American public. Funny how the one Democrat that would have voted against adjournment didn't show up for ONLY that vote that day.
- Democratic organizers trade crack and cash for absentee ballots in Louisiana.
- Obama is trying to drop a roll call vote (in place since 1844) from the convention in favor of nomination by acclamation.
- Delegates that do no favor Obama are replaced by ones that will vote how they are told to instead of how they were chosen to by their electorate.

Didn't you know? Voting has no place in Marxism.

Answer thuggery.
When I was faced with threats for openly opposing the union in my workplace AT THE EMPLOYEES' MEETING, I told the man making the dirty threats to just try something.

These situations need to be handled through counter-organization. We put together an "anti-union union" that numbered roughly twice what the pro-union group numbered. We put our numbers against theirs and challenged them to any type of open contest they cared to engage in, whether it be a productivity contest, an arm-wrestling match, an essay contest, a rumble or a pissing contest. Winner take all, whiner go home.

The union cowards turned us down.

There are more of us who despise you than there are of you, we told them, and guaranteed swift action. One non-union car gets defaced, two union cars get ruined. One non-union window gets a bullet or brick tossed through, a union house burns to the ground.

These thugs only understand brute force. It needs to be handed back to them in prodigious amounts.


Unions and voting
I have a family member that belongs to a union. His union requires that the rank and file register to vote. They check your voter registration card. This is probably not legal but they do. If you are a registered dem or independent you are OK. If you are a registered Rep you do not get put to work. This family member tells me that his local votes to donate money to the democrat party even though 75% of the members do not want to give their money to any party. To oppose these donations is professional suicide.

Unions had their place in the past but it seems now they are just like big businesses that call themselves unions. If the secret ballot is eliminated it will result in unions always getting their way.

Organized labor is involved with organized crime. Some unions more that others. As some of them are using the same tactics as organized crime. That is bribery, theft of union funds, and thugery to get their way. Enforced rules and secret ballot eliminate this problem.

Butcher
You can have qualified tradesmen without unions. Establish a certification system that is open to everyone, not just union members. Let the buyer decide whether to hire a more expensive cerified tradesman, or take their chances with the handyman. Let the market decide how much certification is worth. Bottom line, unions are required to guarantee quality. I built an entire house without union paying labor rates and everything works fine and I saved huge $$$. As proof that the rates for union labor are way inflated, many of the people who worked on my house were union members willing to work a "side job" at much less than union rate.

Brazen!
The Dumbocrats have gotten so brazen! They do not even care what our Constitution and Bill of Rights say, nor in the history of this country. I use to vote for moderate Democrats. None appear to exist anymore. Not that the Republicans have a sterling recent reputation. However, what the Dumbocrats want to do to this country is terrible. I am mad as heck and will not take it anymore and will fight them tooth and nail!

Been there
When I first started teaching, I joined the NEA for the insurance. After I was informed that my homeowner insurance provided what I needed I dropped out of the NEA, but had to go through a lot to drop out and stop them from taking dues from my paycheck. Then I had calls as to why I left. I said I didn't agree with their political agenda. Of course I was told that my dues didn't go to any political party.

Each year the teachers in our district have to fill out an evaluation of our principal. Those are then collected and in this one particular year the principal took those evaluations (supposed to be secret) and changed the ones she didn't like. When we found out from the district office that she had a high approval rating we all began to question how that could be since we knew amongst ourselves how we had rated her. A new evaluation took place and it had entirely different results.

If the unions have control over those ballots, they can make them produce any result they want. Unions had their day. We need "right to work laws" like we have here in Arizona to be the rule of law.

Butcher
Smallguy_bigheart is spot on. I was a homebuilder for 15 years before I retired and never once used union workers. The trade schools and other contractors are turning out skilled workers every day. I had no problem paying union wages, but I wouldn't put up with their ridiculous work rules. Residential construction has been pretty much union free for years in my area. And, I mught add, quality has suffered not one bit. In fact I'd say it's better overall that most commercial construction which is still controlled by the unions.

Are there any principled liberals?
What possible justification is there for denying people the privacy and protection of a secret ballot? I’d love to hear the ruse that’s being used to sell this scam.

These are the same people (i.e. the Left) who insist that requiring valid identification to vote in a public election is somehow discriminatory. Is there a person alive who doesn’t know what this ploy is really about?

I’ve noticed that not a single liberal has weighed in so far, which means that they’re finding it hard to argue with Sowell’s column. A principled person, if he agreed with Sowell, would be taking a stand on this issue regardless of political affiliation; yet all we hear is silence. What’s that old saying? Something like: all it takes for tyranny to take over is for good people to do nothing. Are there ANY good people on the Left?

AARP & NEA
Check out who is behind the AARP. I did several years ago when they first started filling my mailbox with solicitations and found out that the AARP was founded by and was controlled by educators. Almost every member of the Board of Directors is or was a teacher or professor with a PhD in education or an E.D. (Doctor of Education). Having been an elected School District Treasurer who had to deal with such people regularly, I want nothing whatsoever to do with the AARP. And by the way, I'd like to have a T-Shirt that says "I'm an old F**t and I Want the D**n Discount"

My two Cents
It all comes down to who you think is doing the intimindating? If you think the companies are union busting then the current law makes sense. If you believe the unions are the ones applying undue pressure then the change to secret ballot would seem reasonable.

Given the unianimous anti union sentiments of posters here it is clear what townhall's audience thinks.

I tend to believe it is management that union busts not the other way around and that is certainly true historically. I would like to know who was behind this legislation and what their history has been before I get sucked into a mom and apple pie arguement about how Obama and the Dems are undemocratic. Things are not always as they appear.

BTW. Sowell would have been more believable if he had provided an historical context, I suspect that was an intention decision on his part because that context might lead the reader to a different conclusion about what is right and wrong..

That is also why I consider Sewell to be a second rate academic.

Dr.Sowell
Your failure to provide a proper "Context" for the "Uninformed" is most puzzling.To give your readers, an update as to where this economy is would be most desired.Unions today serve as a "Countervailing Power" to offset the advantages of the Corporations.If this is true, then one must weigh the advantages that Unions provide against any perceived negatives.If we want "Fairness",then we must be "Fair".

Excellent Article
When you are so very, very smart, and you are so sure that you are right, then there are some very real and obvious things that you know.

1. The people who oppose you are either very stupid, greedy, or evil. It is not possible that other intelligent people could look at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

2. Therefore, anything that you do to oppose these benighted non-believers is warranted.

Mrs. Pelosi has telegraphed what she thinks several times. Remember, she told us that she is "busy saving the world". When you are involved in something that exalted, you must win, or everyone will die! She also has come out strongly for the "Fairness Doctrine" to limit conservative talk radio -- but not the very dominant liberal television, newspaper and magazine outlets. So, it should be no suprise that she wants to stop debate on drilling.

CW
The law that the Republicans are trying to push through is a change from the existing law. I would suggest you read the orginal legislation. My guess is that it was to address intimidation at the ballot box by management goons. You cannot deny that this country had a history of union busting and that union organizers were beaten and even killed. Not that I am suggesting that happens today, but laws are written to address situations.

The SLIME that is unions.
Back in 2001 or 2002, a study of a few hundred branches of teachers unions tax filings were done. You see, since they are unions, their tax filings are a matter of public record, so it is quite easy to find out EXACTLY what all their money is spent on.

This study found some rather stagggering, yet, in my opinion, unsurpising, things.

While the ONE and ONLY purpose for a union is SUPPOSED to be that of collective bargaining, this study found that **less than 5% of union dues** are spent on collective bargaining. In fact, fewere than half of all unions spend **any money at all** on their one and only purpose in life, and of the unions that DO spend money on collective bargaining, none ever spent more than a measely 25% of union dues on collective bargaining expenses.

What is all their money spent on instead? Why, it's spent on the MAMMOTH salaries and DAILY junkets of corrupt fatcat union bosses and money laundering into Democratic coffers.

When Bush Jr. took office, one of his first executive orders was a reinstatement of an executive order his father made, but was immediately repealed when Clinton took office. This executive order merely demanded that a particular law be posted in union offices in plain view so that their members may read it, similar to the way workplaces must post the minimum wage and non-discrimination laws. The law that was demanded be posted was a law passed way back in the 1920s or 1930s stating that a union MUST, upon request by a member, provide said member with a detailed report of how their union dues are spent, and if that member requests, the union MUST refund any money spent on non-collective bargaining expenses.

When this order was reinstated, unions were in an uproar! Now why, EXACTLY, if unions were such the great institutions Democrats want us to believe they are, would they be so against reporting what they spend money on, hmmmm?

Phraseology 101
I will not argue the merits of a “secret ballot” as those merits should be self-evident to the most stupid observer. Instead I will remark on the the phrases so often used by the liberals and the press (same thing).

Those phrases are:

Special interest group – any group not favored by Democraps

Citizen advocacy group – any group favored by the Democraps

Powerful xxx Lobby – Any organization that attempts to influence congress and is NOT favored by the Democraps

Citizen advocacy group – any group trying to influence congress that is favored by the Democraps

To a union member 1
You oppose my Total Tax Reform plan called “One Tax And Done”. Do you really enjoy paying much more for everything than you should have to pay; and do you enjoy seeing many union jobs taxed out of existence? There is something that you haven’t considered:

It is your duty to sell the plan. It is your duty and responsibility to your union, to go to your union meetings and remind the other members that they pay a lot of money to the union as dues, and that a lot of that dues money (how much?) is given by the union bosses to state and federal Democrat-party politicians to keep them in office. Your union bosses don’t give any money to Republican-party politicians.

It is also your duty to remind the membership that these Democrat-party politicians are constantly passing more and higher taxes, some of which are to be used to give an additional 845 billion dollars to the UN. These taxes have forced and continue to force many tens of thousands of employers out of business, out of the state, and out of the country, along with all the many jobs these employers provided. This is called outsourcing, and taxes are one of the main reasons for it. Hershey’s closing of the Luden’s Candy factory is a good example of this. Luden’s is a union shop, and the union jobs are going to Mexico, India, and Red China, thanks to all the destructive taxes the Democrat-party politicians passed and increased.

These same Democrat-party politicians are also trying to get amnesty for the many millions of illegal aliens, so they can take jobs presently held by long-term union members. Ask members of construction unions, who have already lost their jobs to illegal aliens, about this. The politicians you are paying to keep in office are taxing millions of union jobs out of existence, and are trying to get illegal aliens into others.

JMO51 - Do you have any principles?
“The law that the Republicans are trying to push through is a change from the existing law. I would suggest you read the orginal legislation.”

The proposed legislation that Sowell is referring to is being sponsored by Democrats.

“My guess is that it was to address intimidation at the ballot box by management goons.”

All of the union-related violence I’ve ever seen (via the news) in my lifetime has been perpetrated by union members and union leaders. Besides, a secret vote should protect workers from retaliation on EITHER side, so your answer makes no sense.

“You cannot deny that this country had a history of union busting and that union organizers were beaten and even killed. Not that I am suggesting that happens today, but laws are written to address situations.”

Once again I don’t see how forcing workers to vote openly is remotely related to what you just said.


Do you think workers should be allowed to vote secretly or not? If so, why are trying to justify this

To the union member 2
Remember that, in 1990, these Democrat-party federal-level politicians greatly increased these taxes to force tens of thousands of employers to put millions of Americans out of jobs, to anger the people and get President Bush out of office. In 1991, the democrat-controlled state government did the same for no apparent reason other than “they could”. How many union members lost their jobs? Did the politicians ask for union permission to destroy jobs? All union members are paying the politicians to cut union members’ throats!!!

You must get the membership to send the local union boss to the state union boss and to the national union boss. The state and national bosses should go to the state bosses and national bosses of all the other unions. All the union bosses should go to the state and federal politicians to tell them that they will not get any more money, support, and votes until they repeal all these destructive, union-job-destroying taxes and get rid of the illegal aliens who are taking union jobs. If they don’t repeal the taxes and deport the illegal aliens, use the primary election to give your support to another candidate.

At this time, the state and national bosses can give copies of “One Tax And Done” and “How To Get Rid of Illegal Aliens” to each politician. I’ll follow this letter with state and federal versions of it. You probably haven’t thought about it, but if all those taxes had been repealed by 1946, we would have one of the best railroad systems in the world, and you wouldn’t have to worry that Amtrak might go under and your job might not last for ten more years – a concern you’ve expressed to me. The money that these taxes take from Amtrak is needed by Amtrak to stay in business and provide jobs; and the jobs taken by illegal aliens are needed by you and your union brothers.

Your brother

Teacher Unions
Teacher Unions would be uneccesary if communities would require administrators to be fair, demand that school boards write fair contracts, hold children attending school responsible for their actions, and realize that teachers deserve fair compensation for time spent working.

Teaching should be a profession, like any other, and not viewed as a vocation of people who "do it for the children." I have yet to meet a doctor, lawyer or mechanic who "does it for the people." They insist that I pay my bills in cold hard currency.

Pay me and my fellow teachers what we are worth and teacher unions will die.

about unions generally

There is only one area where unions have not waned in influence in recent years-- unions of those working for government, which can force the taxpayer to eat their increased costs. Consider teachers, postal workers, and civil service bureaucrats... are you really impressed with the service you receive from ANY of these "public servants?"

Postal worker clerks make exactly twice what their counterparts do working for private companies offering comparable services... but ask yourself this-- if it is REALLY important to get it there on time, would YOU rely on the U.S. postal service?!

Teachers whine and bray perpetually about being "underpaid professionals." Yet if you look at the average teacher salary, and especially if you factor in the true qualifications, generous benefits, time off, and job security versus other options, teaching starts to look pretty darned attractive!

The NEA resists accountability, yet most of the rest of us can be dismissed with little justification. And what of this tripe about you cannot truly test a teacher with written competency tests... how then can THEY presume to test your child's competency? And WHY should someone who purports to teach students in H.S. not have to pass 8th grade equivalency tests with flying colors?

a recent provocative post...
here on TH by FairnessMan... proffered here as food for thought/discussion:

(slight editing for clarity)
********************************************

Anyone who "works" five hours per day, 36 weeks per year has an EASY job. Remember Mr. & Mrs. taxpayer/sucker, a teacher has more time off by age 30 than you do for your entire work life into your 60's. Also remember, few teachers "work" into their 60's because of those big, fat pensions you provide for them at an early age.

Yes, little English is spoken here in the northern parts of the public "worker's" magic kingdom of N.J. Teachers and thug unions love this. Hundreds of thousands of ILLEGALS who don't speak English means more jobs for more
parasitic teachers because of their mere presence and because they can't speak English. Again, a win-win for the teachers, enemies of
parents/taxpayers and children.

I love the B.S. about teachers paying taxes too. Again, let's do the math. Yes, when a $10K property tax goes up 5% to $10,500 this usually means another nice 4,5,6 or 7% raise for a $80K-$110K teacher here. Hell, if I were a teacher I would want property taxes to go up every week!

Again, teaching is the world's easiest and highest paying part-time job for those at the low end of the academic achievement scale, and "the hardest job in the world"... except for all the others.

A pox on labor unions
Dr. Sowell is right on the money as always. I am always in awe of Dr. Sowell's ability to make his point in such a clear and concise fashion. He is absolutely right that the labor unions and the radical enviromentalists completely control the dems in the congress to the extreme detriment to our country, especially our so-called education system that has completely failed a huge population of our most important resource, our children. And this is done by the teacher's unions in order to grant, among other things, tenure to teachers with 2 years experience making them almost impossible to fire for any reason. And, as indicated, Obama is in complete accord with the unions goals and policies.

Democrat Unions
Is it any wonder the Democrat Party is getting more power while we are losing ours? They learned a long time ago to take what they want and try to destroy the rest.

The union is the same. If you want your job and your job is unionized, you join or lose the job. They won't just terminate you,but they have their ways....

The Democrat Party is made up of factions. Each faction has no power. Each faction is a voting bloc. Together,they form an almost unbeatable bloc.

Republicans are everyone else. 'The everyone else bloc' is shrinking. Too many people today have decided to get on the 'gravy train' bloc and are joining the Democrats. Good riddance.

Oracle1
You are on the money!

also agree w/Dr. Sowell
re:
"It is the same story when it comes to the teachers' unions, the biggest special interest of all in the Democratic Party. They not only contribute money, they can contribute people who walk the precincts on election nights, rounding up the faithful to go vote. "

***********************************************

Unions have declined from a zenith of representing 1/3 of all workers to less than 10% today. In part, this is a recognition of the industries which have diminished or died due to union excess... the average UAW member earns $150k all-in... an employer cannot pay that for the skill level and not get killed. See also airline pilots-- those in unions can earn >$200k for easy jobs where they were trained and often educated with tax $... this is several times what their non-union counterparts can command based on skill set.

Public school teachers number 3 million and are a daunting political force because of their unions. But they already earn as much or more than the average college-educated worker, especially per hour of work... and they are hardly "professionals" based on educational credentials and standards, as the unions bray reflexively.

Public ballots are the choice of Tyrants
After the war for Southern Independence, during reconstruction, one of the first rules passed at the point of a bayonet pertained to the election of senators. State legislatures were ordered to select senators by means of a voice vote.

With the elimination of secret ballots, the process became hopelessly corrupt and led eventually to the 17th Amendment, which has made senators virtually unaccountable; it has enabled the centralization of power within the national government (which also sets the limits of its own power).

Originally, you see, the founders intended that the senators from each state be chosen by the state legislatures. This safeguarded the states' ability to limit the 'national authority's' lust for power, because senators vote the way they are told (fewer votes needed to oust the non-performers). This was done to preserve the states as the ultimate authority on the federal Constitution.

An example of how this kept power with the states can be seen in Andrew Jackson's fight to rid the country of a national bank. After Jackson vetoed the bank, the Senate held a vote to censure him. Most senators were instructed to vote no. However, a few who were comfortable in the foggy bottom hot tub ignored their orders and voted with the banking interests to censure Jackson. Seven recalcitrant senators were immediately recalled (fired) by their state legislatures for merely voting to censure Andrew Jackson.

The moral of the story is a question...Who stands to benefit most? Who loses? Follow the money. Follow the power.

A question for Deornwulf...
“Pay me and my fellow teachers what we are worth and teacher unions will die.”

How do we know what anyone is “worth?”

For most of us the market (i.e. supply and demand) determines what we are “worth.” This is EXACTLY what so many teachers and other union members want to avoid. The whole point of unions is to ARTIFICIALLY inflate salaries by not allowing employers to hire people in a free market. This is what picket lines are all about: scaring away people who would work for market wages so that unions can blackmail companies to pay wages that aren’t supported by the natural market.

Union members want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be able to choose jobs for non-monetary rewards, but then force the rest of us to pay artificially high prices for their career of choice.

Here’s my question for you, Deornwulf: when you hire people to do a service for you – whether it’s mow your lawn, clean your house or pool, work on your car, paint your house, etc. – how do you determine how much they are “worth?” Do you sit around and think about what’s ‘fair’ or do you pay the going (i.e. market) rate? Don’t lie – you pay the market rate for these services just like the rest of us. Doesn’t that seem hypocritical?

Imagine this: you hire someone to mow your lawn for the going rate of $25/week. After 6 months this person decides that $100/week is a ‘fairer’ price. You scoff because you know other lawn services will do it for $25/week, and you say no. Now imagine that he pickets your house with all his friends and intimidates anyone else from mowing your lawn. Wouldn’t you be outraged? Don’t lie – you would be and you should be.

Two wrongs DO make a right

Wrong #1 Pelosi loses the election

Wrong #2 Cindy Sheehan wins the election

The right: No more Pelosi running Congress

Tony Texas
Sen Obama should be defeated on this one stated policy. The secret ballot is a right-is the cornerstone of Democracy. The further this Country falls to pleasing the many in the name of power--the more important the secret ballot becomes. The general public must awake before it is too late. Thank you Dr. Sowell--stay the course.

Uinons, Another slice of Freedom Gone
Has anyone looked at the orignal bill of rights recently? Do you really think you still have those rights? The perfect storm has arrived.
A union of people called democrats,liberal,progressives,commies have over the past 100 years perverted the American idea that if you work hard and live right that you will be successful in your pursuit of happeness. The commie view is they are the elite and we the people are not. The commies know they are the smartest thing in universe because they know there is no God. In contrast we the people know there IS A GOD. The commies in the US goverment have arrived at the perfect moment in history to devert we the people from our dreams of freedom and happyness to slavey and dispair! At this critical point in history can real Americans do less than our founding fathers? Stand up, say to the world I will not go quietly, I will defy your tyranny and put my life on the line. Can we the people rise to the stature of Rosa Parks and defy the law and say "I will not sit in the back of the bus"? Fellow freedom loving Americans, it is time for drastic means. Stand up! Just say No to the commie double speak. Get in a commies face, tell them if they want change than go to China, Cuba or Hell, their choice. Get in your representives face, up close, in their space and remind them, that you know where they live! Vote for the American way or go home.
The nurse is coming with my meds now, got to go!
DAR.FL

Obama loves
these handouts. For him, it has been a most positive experience. But, what has it created? He's arrogant, egotistical, selfish and self-serving. How did his wife manage to do all things in favor of allowing two babies to grow to birth and beyond? Or, was that only because they were Barack Husein's offshoots? He would do better to be in the entertainment industry with his buddy Clooney.

history lesson
Great history lesson Ron Jones!

It's appalling that any American with any knowledge of history could want anything other than a secret ballot.

My husband and son used to work at a company that was unionized. My husband tried to move into another position to make more money, and was the best performer during the probation period, but was cut out so that union favorites could have the job instead.

My son was a decent worker but a supervisor (not his) didn't like him so he was fired. Union job protection? Ha! Now he's at a non-union company and they love him. Incidentally, the company that he's at now has better benefits than the unionized company and they treat their employees well. For example, there was a mix-up with his paycheck and his boss covered his rent and bills personally until it was straightened out, you won't find that in a union. And it's a big company, not a small business.

Just say NO! to unions!

cogent posts by...
CW and Ron Jones, who offers a nice review of history.

Little REAL history is taught today in schools-- it has become so PC and revisionist. A case in point-- assessing Lincoln. The REAL Lincoln examined closely was more impressive than the mythical PC Lincoln.

As a son of the South and sedulous student of history, I consider it a particular tragedy that he was not allowed to live... he would have been more just during what came to be called Reconstruction. Indeed, the great leader General Robert E. Lee said that he would not have surrendered but for the goodness of the man in the W.H.

Lee is rumored to have said later that he certainly would not have surrendered at Appomattox had he known what was coming.

Unions and the Mob
There is a reason that unions and mobsters get along so well: they employ the same methods.

They insist that you only hire their people, and use violence and intimidation if you stray. They command a strange code of "omerta" for their members. If you go against the mob you're a "rat", if you go against the union, your a "scab".

I once saw a t-shirt that said "Unions: the people who brought you the weekend". Translation: "we did a favor for you...".

CW
Grequently management would photograph workers wanting to vote. So the union would collect the names of workers in secret on the condition that if they did not have a sufficient number of names then they would not submit them to management. This guaranteed that in the event that the union failed to get enough support management would not have to know that they were pro-union.

Keeping people away from the ballot box gauranteed that the only people who would vote were the anti-unions folks who had pledged to vote no. Could they lie to management sure, but most did not. So the secret ballot was a voter surpression strategy.

Follow the money. Who is behind this news legislation and what is their agenda?


As for secret ballots.


I could cast my ballot on a billboard, I don’t care who knows how I voted.

I do know that Unions, and perhaps many bosses do care, and will take action against a voter, an employee, with whom they disagree.

But let’s do it this way. You vote any way you want, public or secret, then let’s immediately imprison anyone who does anything of value against you for that vote. Of course they can talk, and they can complain, but if they do something physically or financially, they go to jail.

If a neighbor doesn’t like how you voted, so he won’t cut his lawn next to yours, that’s not too serious.

But let's not go to far on a secret vote, I want to know how each and every politican voted on everything.


Theory and reality
While the theory behind unions is that it enables workers to form a "countervailing power" to the large corporations, in practice it does not work that way.

To truly be fair, an employer would have the option of deciding not to use the services of a particular union's workforce, and have access to competing workers. What really happens is that any attempt to hire replacement workers is met by violence and intimidation on the part of the union members. So workers are free to opt for better jobs with other employers, but corporations are forced to stick with the same union.

Unions are just a form of collusion, and the ends do not justify the means.

CW and other rabid any unionists
I sometimes think that Unions are no better than management, but they do function as a counter balancing power. Sometimes the treat of unionization has forced management to change for the better and that is often the best outcome.

That said for every any union horror story you could certainly find an equally horrifying and unfair management story so whats the point.

Michigan
If you want to see what Unions have wrought, take a look at S.E. Michigan. I read a week or so ago about a foreclosure selling in Flint for $5000. I read about one today in Detroit selling for $1.00, that's right a buck. To see what has happened economically to that once thriving area is a shame.

JMO51
Your explanation doesn't make any sense. They photographed people who "wanted to vote"? How do they know who "wanted to vote" and which way they would vote if they did?

How does making a persons vote public make them LESS vulnerable to intimidation?

JMO51
Furthermore, intimidating people from voting at all works AGAINST the company's interest, since those loyal to the company would have voted "no". That means that the majority of votes would be "yes", since those who were in favor of unionizing would be more likely to vote at all.

Card-Check?
If workers could be unionized by mere petition, would it also be possible to de-unionize by petition as well? If not, then whatever happened to "equal treatment under the law?"

On a slight departure from - - - -
- - - the established topic, if I may.......

I may write-in Dr. Sowell's name for president in November. Maybe John Bolton, perhaps...?

What great Americans, both of 'em!!

JMO51: I followed the money
“Follow the money. Who is behind this news legislation and what is their agenda?”

Okay I will follow the money. The money comes from the Unions and it’s being given to democrat politicians who are sponsoring this legislation. Hmmm… what could their agenda be? Think, think, think. Could it be that they want to intimidate workers who might not vote with the union???

Why are you so determined not to see what’s really going on here? If the open ballot favored management then the unions and democrats would hardly be pushing for it. Follow the common sense.

Far Left and Far Right
It is ironic how much the far left and far right have in common. The far left thinks that every corporation is corrupt and evil and abusive to employees and only interested in its profits and enriching its CEO's and Senior management.

The far Right thinks that what is good for wall street is good for America. They elevate CEO's to saintly status and see the wealthy as the engine of progress. (tricke down)

Here is the rub. Depending on your world view you look for example to back it up and you don't need to look far.

The truth lies somewhere in between these two positions but the far left and far right cannot see this.

the trends on union votes
I believe it is true that the trend has been to vote against new unionizing efforts... in any case, the percentage they represent has certainly declined from about 1/3 to less than 10%, and only unions representing govt. employees have NOT waned in influence, but instead actually grown in clout.

Could that be because the taxpayers simply get stuck with the tab for the largess among government union members (teachers, bureaucrats, and postal workers)?

If you do not want to buy the car made by a UAW worker (which includes $1,600 of costs JUST for retired worker benefits), you can buy a Toyota (with half the labor cost), but you are stuck with public school teachers and civil "service" bureaucrats. Anybody notice that the U.S.P.S. started offering to pick up your holiday packages? Wanna' guess why?

And as a matter of principle, why should government employees even be allowed to unionize?

The Real Deal
Here is the deal. Under the current rules you need 30% of workers to sign up to have a vote. So here is what management does. Once Labor comes up with the 30% Management asks for a secret ballot. Then before the vote takes place management fires a number of the workers who signed the cards. This intimidates the rest and prevents labor from winning. The Dems proposal is to allow management to collect 50% or more of signatures from workers and then have the union certified.

Who wants the secret ballot and who asks for it? Only management.

CW
So you really don't believe that management union busts. That they just want to give every worker a free and fair democratic choice.


Real Deal
To let labor collect 50% and have the union certified.

Bucket List
To paraphrase Jack Nicholson (in the above movie): "I've learned three things as I have gotten older: never confuse religion with Christianity; never confuse schooling with education; and, never confuse unionization with job security.

JMO51 is delusional
""Keeping people away from the ballot box gauranteed that the only people who would vote were the anti-unions folks who had pledged to vote no. Could they lie to management sure, but most did not. So the secret ballot was a voter surpression strategy.

Follow the money. Who is behind this news legislation and what is their agenda?""


It's painfully obvious that JMO51 has Never actually been in the workforce. Everything he/she has said about unions comes basically from union handbooks.

I worked in construction for 24 years, always non-union. I tried working as a union carpenter and quit after a couple days because I just couldn't force myself to be that Lazy.

I've seen what unions and democratic tax policies have done to the state of Michigan.
Over the years I've seen a once great state become a 3rd world country inside America.
You want a recession? Michigan has been in one for 5 years!

You want us to follow the money JMO?

OK, let's see, unions are losing members nationwide, less than 10% of our workforce is now unionized. The money trail is pretty easy to follow, the fatcats are losing money and power and want it back. By removing secret ballots, when a union member votes it would be legal for a union thug to stand behind you and "remind" you of which box is the right one to check.

If you don't think this is 100% Anti-American, you're just a hopeless leftist shill. And I feel sorry for you.



Jim
Very simple. You sign the card. Management finds out because the names have to be submitted. Then they fire you. They don't say they fired you for that reason, they say you made a mistake a few months ago or they don't need you anymore. Since you are not in the union you have no rights. When others learn that you are fired they back away figuring it is not worth it. Management wins.

to JMO51 and other union apologists:
While the improved work conditions that are achieved by unionization might seem to justify the blackmail and thuggery that’s involved, there is a better way to achieve the same thing through natural market forces.

The reason that certain occupations aren’t conducive to individual bargaining power is a simple matter of supply and demand. If the country needs 10,000 new teachers a year, for instance, but 20,000 enter the market each year, this results in an oversupply that keeps wages low and negotiating power minimal. The correct and natural reaction would be for people to choose different occupations where the demand is outweighed by supply. This would naturally result in fewer teachers and the decreased supply would force schools to naturally increase salaries. This benefits all of society because it directs people into occupations where the supplies are needed most.

There is an endless supply of people with minimal skills and education. Consequently the types of jobs they fill don’t command good wages and give them no negotiating power. In a free market theses people only have two choices: they can make the effort to become more skilled and educated to move into jobs that pay more, or they can continue working for low pay. What unions do, however, is give them a 3rd option. They can skip training and education and demand artificially high wages by blackmailing companies and intimidating other workers who would be willing to take free-market wages.

You tell me which way is best.

CW
THe weakening our worker pension systems and medical benefits are directly attributable to the declining influence of big labor.

I know you won't believe this its just not in your nature to see this labor management thing as a counter balancing influence rather than the battle between good and evil. But it is true and I don't think this legislation had is passed would have brought about a reverse in the trend.

And now I must depart.

CW
Bottom line is that unions have less power because of globalization and competition. When Unions overreach they find that management will simply pack its bags and go overseas or will be unable to compete and fold. That said Unions can and do provide some protections to workers on the basis of seniority. The days of the unskilled worker making gobbs of money in a Union job are over.

It is un-American to suggest anything
other than secret balloting. It is the cornerstone of American freedom.

Abuses are always possible, of course, but they can be watched for and dealt with. If the current 30 % sign-up then vote method causes problems, then let's deal with them. The problem is knowing who the 30 % are rather than having the secret ballot.

This new proposal come with permanent, built-in abuse potential, no privacy and no freedom. The worker gets screwed worse than ever.

past their usefulness
Unions are like lots of other organizations (PETA, MADD, etc) that served a useful purpose when they were first created, but once the main problems were solved that brought about their existance, they had to find a new purpose, or were taken over by the more radical elements of the group and their purpose morphed into something else. Unions now exist for the sake of the union and not the workers. Their financial clout with government representatives are the only reason they are still around. Peloci and her ilk don't give a rat's patoot about the effect of their legislation as long as it makes the people that provide them with re-election funding happy (READ UNIONS). Vote them all out.
Private ballots are a must and must not be allowed to be banned. All you Obama worshipping idiots need to wake up and smell the incense. He is a FAR LEFT whacko Marxist who will sell his soul to Unions, eviro-terrorists, anti-war no-matter-what goofballs and socialists.

Good Question Oracle1
""And as a matter of principle, why should government employees even be allowed to unionize? ""


That's a great question!

Our "friends" on the left are constantly telling us how the government is going to take care of our every need, because the government Loves us. If this is the case, how come Government employees need the protection of a union?

If Unions are here to protect the innocent workers from the greedy companies, how come they need unions to protect them from the "loving" government??

If anyone needs a union to protect them from the government it's small business people like Me.

Maggots.
The party called 'DEMOCRATS' in our country that sets (Or God Help Us Should Set)the standard for DEMOCRACY.

Eliminate secret ballots?

JMO51
“THe weakening our worker pension systems and medical benefits are directly attributable to the declining influence of big labor.”

Pension and other benefits are components of total compensation. Compensation is determined by the market (or at least it should be). If these are actually declining it means that the market is adjusting itself based upon changes in supply and demand. Sorry, but this is how it should be.

I do understand the counterbalance argument and it might be justified if (1) the free markets didn’t provide the same counterbalance naturally, and (2) unions could be trusted not to abuse their power and take ‘counterbalance’ to ridiculous extremes. We know from history that this is what always happens.
Do you know that people selling VHS players don’t make as much money as they used to? Seems they couldn’t keep demanding the same compensation once DVDs became popular. Should we rally around the VHS salesmen and demand that their compensation remain the same regardless of market changes?

Isn't that special?
"he means that he is against other politicians' special interests."
One pol's "special interests" are another's constituents & stakeholders. It's sort of like one pol's "ideology" is another's principles. "Special Interest" & "ideology" have been tagged w/ perjorative associations.

There is no conceivable justification for opposing or abolishing secret ballots for unionization. Secret balloting protects both sides equally. Unions & their pals want to put the thumb on the scales.

Lying BS
JM051 is engaged in pure lying BS. Most workers would just love to be fired for engaging in union activity. You see JM, it is against federal law to fire someone for union activity. Any such case would be actionable and the worker and his lawyer would collect enough money to never have to work again.

http://www.nlrb.gov/workplace_rights/i_am_new_to_this_websi te/what_are_protected_concerted_activities.aspx


They Speak For You, & Say "More Govmt!"
Other than unions, many of the organizations named, & many others, actually exist to push socialism & totalitarianism in the name of whatever group they claim to represent. They always present socialism &/or big government in some form as the salvation of whatever group they claim to represent. Furthermore, the pop media have anointed them as the official voice of that group, the ones to go to for comment on any issue that bears on that group.

The NAACP is one of the oldest, most respected (for good reasons as well as poor ones), & most nearly legit in the sense of actually having some claim to represent a group. Yet it came out during one phase of the "boycott of SC" over the Confederate flag, that the NAACP is actually run by an insular elite, & chapters are answerable not to the elected visible president but a behind-the-scenes officer called (IIRC) the "field operations director" who can revoke local chapters' charters if they don't toe his line.

The AARP has to be 1 of the worst; they get members on a list by offering these discounts, then their elite claim to speak for them. An AARP rep once spoke to my civic club to defend Socialist Insecurity w/ slogans like "Lifts people out of poverty!" When asked how they get membership's input on political policy, she described a process that sounds like a marketing survey or a focus group exercise, not a legit election.

"Global warming" legislation was cited. The Left, however, knowing Congresspersons aren't going to set off this bomb, are trying to do energy rationing thru unelected bureaucrats & judges based on the CAA & ESA instead.

To the established Left, votes are not about rank&file making choices on policy or electing leaders from multi candidates, but about ratifying & legitimizing the decisions the anointed elite made for them. Votes for the "wrong" choices are to be nullified or discouraged.

Union thuggery is only a part of....
...their disease. Having been around UAW workers, among other trade union members, they collectively view any criminal or irresponsible behavior in their ranks as legitmate while in pursuit of their demands.

At any Dodge plant you can be absent from the job for WEEKS at a time, and then show up to work your shift. It's near impossible to get fired from any UAW job which enables laziness, no-shows, and unending benefits to any worker who feels the need to bleed the companies they contract with.

At the GM plant in Lake Orion, MI., a friend who works there says that they have common (black) criminals that start physical fights or threaten fellow workers for sport, and the union protects them from consequences.

The primary function of a union today, I've learned over the years, is to protect those who should be fired. That's it. These unions know that this vile population will attack anyone for them at the drop of a hat.

When you work for a union, you have 2 bosses, and one of them will physically beat you senseless if you don't abide by the rules. Guess which one?

Hey CW
I'm still trying to unload my BetaMax.

Dr. Sowell,
You've done it again!!This rates a 6.8234 on the 1 to 5 scale. Several respondents have mentioned their desire to vote for Dr. Sowell for President...I concur wholeheartedly.
Are we ready for a black president? Absolutely!
Are we ready for Obummer? Absolutely not.

Not always secret

thoughtfulman Location: PA
Reply # 80
Date: Aug 13, 2008 - 2:06 PM EST
Subject: It is un-American to suggest anything
other than secret balloting. It is the cornerstone of American freedom.
---
But not in the legislature and in Congress. Secret ballot, NEVER.

The Need for Unions
When unions were established in the early 1900's there was a definate need for them. Owners and managers of businesses had taken the attitude that production was everything. They paid their employees almost nothing and the only thing they did if a worker was injured was fire them.

About 1960, the managers realized that the workers were their most valuable item. It took awhile to train a worker. Without good workers they lost production. Unions became somewhat useless since the managers and safety laws were now working to protect and reward the workers.

With the new managers now coming along, the workers are again considered to be throw-away although the safety laws are still in affect. The managers expect hard work and loyalty to the company from their workers but don't return it or feel that they need to. If they can cut worker pay that is excellent since it increases profits. It is becoming evident that unions may be needed again in the future.

However, I don't particularly like some of the actions that unions do. I am against forcing anyone to join a union and pay to work as many unions want. I was offered a union job once when I desperately needed a job - if I paid a $150 bribe to the union stewart. That is wrong. Also, I know of at least two cases where a man was shot and killed during strikes by union people - and the final agreement with the union specified that no one or no authority would attempt to find out who the murderer was. Again, wrong.

Free and Balanced
I remember when my Dad talked about the unions and the folks trying to start one. There were men beaten in the process. Today we have a society that is coarse, more violent than back then, liberal colleges that use speech code to intimidate and stop open dialogue on things they don't want to hear. These same people are running for office and want to allow open voting on the union issue. More attempts to force the people to their way of thinking. Bad idea. Don't get me wrong, it is better for the worker if there is a balance between management and the union. But unions today seem to be more about politics (like the politicians busy staying elected) and one could argue are bring down business organizations with their demands. Without a secret vote, the workers are in trouble, not better served. If the unions are doing their job, a secret vote would not be an issue. Today's dems are more like yesterday's communists.

thoughtfulman
"I'm still trying to unload my BetaMax."

Maybe JMO51 will buy it from you :)

Union goons exist

JMO51 Location: NY
Reply # 76
Date: Aug 13, 2008 - 1:45 PM EST
Subject: Jim
Very simple. You sign the card. Management finds out because the names have to be submitted. Then they fire you. Management wins.
------------

You missed the point. Change Management to Union, and change fired to beaten, and that tells why Unions sometimes win. they have goons galore.

And I can tell you that from experience about 60 years ago, when I worked at International Harvester, and had to ignore the auto union. They threatened me, I ignored them, and I was praised by union members who gave in to the union, and paid them all that money.

I was soon called back into the Army for the Korean War, and I felt safer in the Army, than near the Union.

My favorite Union Story:

Henry Ford (owner of the company) and Walter Ruther (head of auto workers union) were walking through a new auto plant, with a lot of automated machines. Henry said, “Walter, I’d like to see you collect union dues from those machines. “ Walter replied, “Henry, I’d like to see you sell a car to one of those machines.”

So you see, it depends on which side of the fence you are on.



Marxism lives a new .
Fore any Political leader in any Party that will not bring or allow a Bill before Congress that has her own political agenda in mind and not this country overwhelming needs should be impeached .

Any man or women who can not vote in private is no longer considered Free or Living in a Democracy.

We use to think these issues were totally inconceivable only a few years ago . Nor a party I could support that had moved toward Marxist like behaviors .

That is exactly what Russia did with other voices of disagreement who distrusted their Unions .

Now these American "Racial Unions and Socialist activist want a Fairness Doctrine to muffle the Voice of conservatives is not fair at all as is voting before a Union boss in Public.

This is not what America's brave Fore Fathers put their lives on the line to achieve for this new Democracy . Under King George that were no Voices of disagreement either John Adams said often while they were preparing our Constitution .

4th generation union!!!
AS A 4TH GENERATION UNION MEMBER THIS KIND OF TYRANNY IS UNACCEPTABLE. TO HECK WITH THE KIDS. I ME MINE IS ALL THAT COUNTS.THE EXPERIMENT CALLED DOMOCRACY MAY BE SEEING IT"S WATERLOO!!!!

re: Don't tread on me
Speaking of AARP. Did you know they won't hire anybody over the age of 40? Nothing like strong support for an aging population.

Butcher
I watched Union bricklayers over the last year built condos across from my office on W 18th St. in Manhattan.

I can't count the gaps in the mortar, there are so many. The facade won't last three NY winters before bricks start falling.

I'll make sure to walk down the other side of the street.

special interests
What a dumb concept to constantly hear about. Young people, babies, the boy scouts, city people, farmers, working stiffs, investors, church goers, whores, dog owners, diabetics, the list goes on and on and on. We are all members of 3 or 4 dozen special interests. Unless we can go to Washington to talk to congressmen ourselves we might want to ask someone, say a lawyer or some guy/gal who know their way around to talk about our problem. That makes them a "lobbyist". So the boy scout camp you went to ask a kid is soon to be downstream from a power plant. There's a lot of federal land all over the area and some could get designated to replace your old campsite without really hurting anybody. So, you call this friend in Wash..... STOP!!!! That's a "special interest" using a "Washington Lobbyist" to influence legislation and get "the taxpayer's money" to "fund your pet project". You evil b*st*rd. http://www.moronpolitics.com

Folks, PLEASE just ignore JMO
and the other trolls. You're just encouraging them, and my blood pressure won't stand it.

Lets not forget
That a HUGE portion of American corporations donate funding toward democtrat officials. Why would any rational business owner support the party of never-ending regulations and law-suits?

It is protection money. NO different than paying the local mafia. If a corporation doesn't play ball and contribute, they are on the democrat watch list. One step out of line and Chuck Schumer is tidying up the torture chamber for the CEO who dared transgress against his empire.

I would really like to see a system that included privacy for all political contributions also. Lets take the shakedowns and intimidation out of the business of doing business. Then lets see how many corporations would continue to donate to the party that doesn't want them to make money and wants to tax them out of existence.

Democrat party.??. elections in Timbuktu
.
When will we ever learn I once upon a time made the self same error.

It is the "Democrat" party.

It is not the "Democratic" party

Further more,. there is very little democratic about that party today or recently, and very much undemocratic about them.

The subject at hand is exemplary. How to hold an election in Timbuktu and do it with open balloting. What kind of mindless beasts does it take to OK that.??

Well, you have your answer. Beasts. Bestias of the worst kind. And you still love your country while she runs around cheating on you.??.
.
.

That is really sad to read...
...and I hope that every American stands up for their right to retain a secret ballot.

If legislation is ever passed that takes away that right, then I'm hoping Americans are smart enough to simply NOT VOTE for the candidate that they are bullied toward.

WHY do we need to revoke the secret ballot?

Those who advocate such a position need to clearly define WHY... and partisan politics should not count as a reason.

onceamarine
I never refer to them as anything but the Democrat Party. They are not democratic. If they ever begin to be democratic,I will change with them.

What we need to work on
Is finding a way to keep Dr. Sowell alive forever.

Fuzzy

There must be more to it than that. I work for a large corporation (non union at our plant)and just today we had to watch a film filled with loony lib talking points.

The one that made me almost loose my lunch was the "I am a citizen of the world" claptrap at the end of the brainwashing session. I wasn't aware there was even a global government to be a citizen of. Silly me!

It was also interesting when they went through the discrimination part about race, creed, sex, and sexual orientation, religion was conveniently left out.

I can't see how this is in any way helping with their protection. I tend to think it has more to do with the thorough brainwashing management folks get in our modern institutions of "higher learning".

I suppose it helps global Marxist if they can have a captive audience. Who knows, they may have made a few converts of the woefully uninformed.

2 America's
I truly foresee a day when conservatives say enough is enough and demand a split. Why in G-d's name would we stand for the destruction of everything we hold dear, namely freedom of choice. Liberals seem he!! bent on becoming some sort of Cuba or some such. I've mentioned this on every chat room I can find. We have "irreconcilable differences" and the forced co-habitation is just plain dumb. There need not be a war. But G-d almighty Conservatives and Liberals simply and truly HATE each other, what's the freaklin point to all of this.

TODAY'S DEMOCRAT'S V/S JOHN KENNEDY
TODAY'S DEMOCRAT'S ACTUALLY SOCIALIST V/S JOHN KENNEDY
Are about like Night vs Day .
J. KENNEDY was about a very strong Military ..... Today's SOCIALIST Democrats are not .
J. KENNEDY SPOKE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY GREATNESS .
OBOMA AND SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS SPEAK 24/7 ABOUT HOW BAD AMERICA IS AND ACTUALLY WANTS OUR MILITARY ALOT SMALLER LIKE LOCAL POLICE .
J.KENNEDY WOULD HAVE VETOED UNION NO PRIVATE VOTES .
OBOMA AND SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS ARE FOR UNION PUBLIC VOTES .
J. KENNEDY LOWERED THE TAXES ... TODAYS SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS WANT TO RAISE TAXES .
JOHN KENNEDY SAID ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY .TODAYS SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS AS WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN GIVE YOU FOR FREE .
J.KENNEDY RESPECTED OUR MILITARY AND SEVERED HONORABLY .
JOHN KERRY DID 99 DAYS AND TALKED BAD ABOUT OUR MILITARY AND COUNTY .
I WAS A DEMOCRAT BEFORE I JOINED THE USMC ........... I AM A CONSERVATIVE NOW . BECAUSE OF ALL THE ABOVE MENTIONED REASONS AND ABOUT 100 MORE REASON AS WELL .

Saltydog
I don't disagree at all. I am saying that I doubt many companies advertising how anti AGW they are, do it to look acceptable to democrats in gov't. They automatically go to work buying the anti-discrimination movies for their employees because they don't want big D scowling down on them from on high.

Larry
I know we are getting off track but I'm with you. There is no "coming together" with socialists and conservatives. Not now. Not ever.

The lie that people say about Obama can only be brainwashed into people's heads. There is no other explanation for anyone saying Obama will unite the people. The congressman further to the left than all others can only be a great divider. No rational person could say he is a uniter unless they are talking about democrats and other nations. Which really means, democrats want us to shut up & go away.

No one party wants it
"Anyone who is serious about people being free to express themselves..."

Mr.Sowell,

I'm sorry to say that neither party wants individuals to be free to express themselves, live their lives with the precept of choice at no cost to others. Both political parties behave consistently and constantly as if they think they know something by which everyone else ought to live by.

If just the ideas of personal freedom and personal choice were enough; if each party just lived by this foundation by which independence is fostered; if "your life at no cost to others without their consent" were lived and exampled everyday by EITHER party, our nation would be much more cohesive.

Alas, they don't BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY KNOW SOMETHING that no one else does.

Dem/Rep (some of each) alternatives
The liberal left (Dems mostly) want the "card check" provisions of the mis-named Employee Protection Act now before the Senate which would eliminate the secret vote. Hence the lack of the democratic right to privacy in voting to accept/reject the union being voted upon.

Conversely, some Reps (and a few Dems) are pushing a Right to Work Amendment which makes it possible to take any job without joining (or at least paying payola to) a/the union.

The USSC ruled in the Beck decision some years ago that union members can "opt out" of paying the portion of their dues which are used for political purposes. But the unions are doing their best to get around that without incurring the wrath of the National Labor Relations Board.

SOLUTION: Make it necessary to vote on either joining or rejecting a/the union every two years on a totally secret vote. Nah, too simple, I guess!!!

Last Ray of hope.....

Unions are outdated
Speaking as a former member of the executive board of a state-wide union, although I believe unions once had a place and purpose, they are outdated in this information age.
"Government" = corrupt B.S.
"Unions" are a microcosm of corrupt government.
If that were not true, labor could have owned its own banks, hospitals, mortgage companies, and universities, ad infinitum, by now.

Teachers unions are worst
Not only are unions in general corrupt and outdated, but the teachers unions are the worst. By not doing their jobs, they make serfs out of the children.
"Compulsory education" is an oxymoron because you can only learn what you WANT TO learn. Compulsory education was specifically designed to control large masses of population for the benefit of socialistic governmental control.
THE MATRIX priority education should be to teach the child how to become financially independent. In other words, for the economic playing field to be level, and society to be decentralized, self-sufficient, and sustainable, in addition to agriculture and mathematics, every kid should know what hedge fund managers such as Warren Buffet know. That way they could keep wannabe-clever neo-feudalists from using "government", "law" and "money" to steal their labor.
Public school union teachers can't teach kids how to become financially independent because they don't know how to become financially independent themselves. If they did, most of them would quit their modest-paying teacher jobs and start making more money in the marketplace.
Compulsory education and the teachers' unions are dedicated to turning out a compliant and complacent labor force, not to train and cultivate the entrepreneurial spirit.
No other union does so much harm to children under the pretense, and in the name of, doing good.
Meanwhile, our revisionist-history, Bill-of-Rights-hating, neo-feudalistic, "globalist" money masters are smiling.

Government Bureaucracy==Empire
That's how we got to this point now. FDR started Social Security. Then, Liberals in government found out ways to expand the Social Security Bureaucracy by enlisting others to Entitlements from Social Security. Social Security, like all other Government Conceived Agencies to Deal with a Perceived Social Problem, became it's own Empire, and like all Empires, they Want Power and Growth, so They have To Add New Victims. New "victims" who never worked a day in their lives began to get Welfare Checks from Social Security. Social Security was to meant to be a Retirement Program that Workers Paid into so that they would Have A Retirement, even if they worked for companies who did not provide a retirement plan. Now, Social Security monies that is being paid in by workers is going out to deadbeats and even to Illegal Aliens under the new Rules Enacted By These Scumbag Liberal Democrats in Congress of the U.S.

Then, look at LBJ's War on Poverty and The Bureaucratic Empire that has become. That is the problem with Bureaucracies, they Become Empires, and like all Empires, Exist just To Exist, and have to grow in Size and Power, and so therefore, have to Enlist New Victims, and the Band Plays on and on and on and on ad infinitum.

Bottomline, Obama and All the Rest of These Liberal Democrats Promise even More Government Bureaucracy and are Creating New Victims as We Speak. Enough is Enough.

Reply to Gideon
Right on Gideon. Teacher Unions are not about promoting Education. They are about power and they got this power when they persuaded that misguided Jimmy Carter, another know nothing Liberal Democrat, to start the U.S. Department of Education. This was Carter's payback for one of his Special Interests, The National Association of Educators, who backed him with money and persuaded teachers, as a block to vote for this dummy. He promised them if elected, that the U.S. Dept. of Education would be founded and that is how we got into the mess we are in now, educationally.

More time is spent in classrooms indoctrinating kids with Cultural Diversity, Acceptance of Alternative Life Styles as Normal and Natural, Politically Correct Speech, How To Don Condoms, complete with Cucumber Demonstrations, Doing Surveys on the Sexual Behavior of 10 to 12 year olds, after having already made the assumption that kids this age are engaging in sexual activities, either Heterosexual or Homosexual, as it is taught that both are Normal and Natural and acceptable Behaviors.

Meantime, these same kids cannot Read and Comprehend what they read, Cannot Write Sentences, and are lost if asked, what is a paragraph? And, of course, you know that kids with these Scool Imposed Limitations, cannot even begin to understand an Abstract Concept such as Math, that requires Reasoning.

And now, these NAE types, want to teach Mult-Lingualism, when they cannot even teach Basic Literacy in our own language.

What a System!!!!!!Obama promises to get the Brainwashing and Dumbing down started at age 2. Don't want to Leave Even One Child Un-Indoctrinated and Dumbed Down.

To pb...
Walter Reuther left the world a better place than he found it? Really. I wonder if you have spent any time in Detroit lately.

Green Zealots and Oil
The huge pool of domestic oil bigger than the Saudis' referred to by Sowell is in shale oil, which requires a somewhat costly extraction process. The fluctuations in the market price that are advanced by OPEC and other interests (oil cos., Canada and free traders, primarily) prevent the necessary investment. We need a floor under the price of oil, best achieved by a hefty oil import fee, before this huge resource can be meaningfully tapped so as to bring down the present and future spells of lofty oil price ceilings.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.