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Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Galbraith Effect
by Thomas Sowell
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Many years ago, when I was a college student, I took a course from John Kenneth Galbraith. On the first day of class, Professor Galbraith gave a brilliant opening lecture, after which the students gave him a standing ovation.

Galbraith kept on giving brilliant opening lectures the whole semester. But, instead of standing ovations, there were now dwindling numbers of students and some of them got up and walked out in the middle of his lectures.

Galbraith never got beyond the glittering generalities that marked his first lecture. After a while, the students got tired of not getting any real substance.

Senator Barack Obama's campaign this year reminds me very much of that course from Professor Galbraith. Many people were ecstatic during the early primaries, as each state's voters heard his glittering generalities for the first time.

The media loved the novelty of a black candidate with a real chance to become president, and his left-wing vision of the world was largely their vision as well. There was a veritable media honeymoon for Obama.

There was outrage in the mainstream media when ABC anchor man Charles Gibson asked Obama a serious question about the economic effects of a capital gains tax. Who interrupts honeymooners to talk economics?

The fact that Senator Obama did not have a very coherent answer made things worse-- for Charles Gibson. Since Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of many of his supporters, they resented Gibson's having asked him such a question.

The question, incidentally was why Senator Obama was advocating a higher capital gains tax rate, when experience had shown that the government typically collected more revenue from a lower capital gains tax rate than from a higher rate.

Senator Obama acted as if he had never thought about it that way. He probably hadn't. He is a politician, not an economist.

Politically, what matters to the left-wing base that Obama has been playing to for decades is sticking it to "the rich." What effect that has on the tax revenues received by the government is secondary, at best.

What effect a higher capital gains tax rate will have on the economy today and on people's pensions in later years is a question that is not even on Senator Obama's radar screen.

Economists may say that higher capital gains tax rates can translate into lower levels of economic activity and fewer jobs, but Obama will leave that kind of analysis to the economists. He is in politics, and what matters politically is what wins votes right here and right now.

The kind of talk that won the votes-- and the hearts-- of the left-wing base of the Democratic Party during the primaries may not be enough to carry the day with voters in the general election. So Senator Obama has been changing his tune or, as he puts it, "refining" his message.

This was not the kind of "change" that the true believers among Obama's supporters were expecting. So there has been some wavering among the faithful and some ups and downs in the polls.

Despite an impressive political machine and a huge image makeover this year to turn a decades-long, divisive grievance-promoting activist into someone who is supposed to unite us all and lead us into the promised land of "change," little glimpses of the truth keep coming out.

The elitist sneers at people who believe in religion and who own guns, the Americans who don't speak foreign languages and the views of the "typical white person," are all like rays of light that show through the cracks in Obama's carefully crafted image.

The overwhelming votes for Obama in some virtually all-white states show that many Americans are ready to move beyond race. But Obama himself wants to have it both ways, by attributing racist notions to the McCain camp that has never made race an issue.

The problem with clever people is that they don't know when to stop being clever-- and Senator Obama is a very clever man, perhaps "too clever by half" as the British say. But maybe he can't keep getting by with glittering generalities, any more than Galbraith could.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Argg!!!
and more arggg!!

How Obama can help McCain win
Every time the Obama crowd accuses the McCain campaign of racism (for shenanigans that everyone knows are normal politics) they drive another hundred thousand undecideds into the McCain camp.

We all know that what Obama is really doing is accusing US of being racists for listening to what McCain has to say (lame as it is).

Is Obama trying to guilt people into voting for him? It will work in San Francisco and on the upper West Side of Manhattan, but not many other places.

Obama and Infanticide


For those interested in Obama's position on infanticide...see:


http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081101.html

Professor James?
Obviously, it couldn't have made you any dumber! If lowering the capital gains rate was a good thing, why is our stock market 20% lower than it was eight long years ago? Why have over a million Americans per year fallen below the poverty level during this time? Why haven't we seen the economic gains we experienced with the Reagan tax cuts?

I guess sometimes it's best to just ignore reality.

Ken's analysis
Ken,
Your left wing analysis of capital gains rates has made us all dumber.
James Danginger
Professor of Economics

Economics 101
Thomas Sowell must have slept through the same economic classes that George W. Bush did. Look, this is simple: when you cut capital gains tax rates you encourage massive stock compensation and sell-offs. Just ask the Japanese, their stock market is about 50% below its peak of over 15 years ago! Ours is about 20% below where it was over eight years ago - about the same time the Republicans began screwing around with capital gains tax rates. When you cut taxes for the rich as Bush did you shrink the economy. When you cut taxes for the middle class as Reagan did you grow the economy. That's economics 101.

god news from mccain
mccain on tv "russia should realize that in the 21st century one nation does not invade anoter nation" good newa. i was wondering where our army went.

Obama's Hollow Candidacy
Mr. Sowell's characterization of the Senator's
capabilities are straight forward, clear, and accurate--as 99% of anything he writes is.

My comment really is one that could apply to many who resist Obama's candidacy (if only that were a synonym for supporting the Republican candidate John McCain--it is, but only by default) including Mr. Sowell.

There is much written or implied about how this race is "tied". It really is not tied. Any one statistical test on any one poll suggests that, but any statistical test on the all the polls together really imply a margin of error much smaller--(lets not discuss the far more volatile state polls--where Obama is even further head in the Electoral College).

My point is that despite the "wall" Obama has hit he has not bounced back much either. He is ahead; and the only way he will fall behind by November is if John McCain and his supporters can "make the sale".

Personally, as much as JM's positions are not all mine, many are. Few if any of BHO's are mine. When we critique Obama, if we could also support a counter point in McCain's favor (it has to be believed of course---do I really need to say that?) it will help. Otherwise on the night of the election, we will have another "tied" election---but this time going to Obama.

DocTony
You are so right. How can Medicare and Medicaid be operating in the red when they only pay for about 15% of the total medical costs from each bill? Now some folks want to trust the govt. with having a greater role in medical "insurance". Wake up people! This is like trusting your money to a financial advisor who has lost the fortunes of every single client. This will be a "money pit" with no bottom. Having millions of uninsured is a huge problem, but having more govt. involvment is not the way to fix. I guess they are a good choice if you want introduce mindboggling waste and inefficiency.

Medical Care Insanity

Doc Tony so eloquently pointed out earlier the insane shortcomings of the Medicare and Medicaid systems.

This brought to mind a conversation I had with my long time doctor in 2006, when his office call charge was $56. I asked him what it would be if he ONLY took cash, check, or credit card for his services AND his malpractice insurance rates were more like other businesses of similar gross dollar revenues.

He stopped to think for a minute, and then said, "$25 would be just fine!. I could get rid of two office people who shuffle all the paper, get a smaller office, stop writing off 20% to 30% of all my billing that is either never collected or improperly disallowed, and not have to wait up 4 months to get paid by government and private insurers. Oh, and I could stop ordering tests that are not necessary, but needed to CMA regarding malpractice claim potential.

WOW!!! More than 50% of his billing charge was the inequities of the system. Who couldn't afford a $25 doctor visit??? That's about the same as a carton of cigarettes. Think how easy and cheap it would be to fix all this with a few simple reforms.

Taking a swing at someone's dad?
Wow, comparing JKG to Obama. Nice. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Galbraith's son very recently coming out with a book called the Predator State, a book that points out that waiting for the pure libertarian freedom from government that Sowell espouses and yet enacting such anti-legislation legislation (weird huh) that require universal adoption and prevention of other measures but doesn't get it, leads inevitably to virtual oligarchy. But rather than take that on, Sowell just takes a swing at his dad. What a jerk.

Here's one for you, Sowell, since you're having trouble coming up with reasons to see why anyone would vote for Obama since the taxes Obama's plan saves middle class people has been repeatedly shown to be better than McCain's plan and with a lower deficit: Ask yourself why the only response McCain's economic advisor could come up with after getting his hat handed to him by Obama's policy advisor Austin Goolesby in a debate was "Well, taxes aren't everything." That's the like the Pope saying, "Hey, Jesus isn't that important."

Other than that, knock that passive aggressive stuff off. Unless you want us to go after your mom in an article.

Voting tests
YOu know many of the Southern States had voting tests. The creators claimed they to have a minimum standard for voters like reading. In reality they were a gate that let every white person in and every black person out. Conservatives love democracy when they are wining and hate it when they are not. Why don't we just get a benevolent dictator hopefully with good conservative credentials and then things will be fine.

What Credentials?
The Sowell artical is spot on and so is Neal Bortz. More specifically Neal suggests a litmus test to be able to vote. I would guess at least half of registered voters are not truly qualified to vote as they do not understand the reason we have this great nation nor do they undertand the real economy of our freedoms.
Obama has no resume to be our president, however our commercially grown children of voting age do not have the knowledge to know the difference. It is a "What is in it for me, right now" generation who also accepts no liability for their or anyone elses failings as it is always anothers fault!
The Baby Boomers need to step up to the plate, NOW! And Obamaites need to understand why they receive those goverment checks...it is the Democrats keeping them in check - pun intended!

Lolo1
You are right. Libertarians are the most consistent but they cannot get enough support and there is a reason most people want government intrusion. The far left wants the the government to fix inequality and to address all of the social ills. Right wingers want to control culture. Both talk a good game about freedom but in the end they both are about big brother.

Ron Paul did a great job in promoting libertarian ideas, he had passionate followers but he never had a chance of winning.


CK Husler
Germany's system is expensive, but so is our in fact their is third most expensive. Guess who is number one. Inspite of what DOC said Medicare is a very efficient system, the only part that is not really working are these private plans that can't stand on their own and need extra help from the feds (Corporate welfare) If the private plans work so well why can't they compete with the public plan?

I looked at your link it had nothing to do with the quality of the system or customer satisfaction or results. Healthcare is an expensive component of our economic system and theirs and costs continue to rise and the money is not going to the Doctors. They work harder, make less money, and have a lot less time to spend with their patients. There have been advances. Cancer used to be a death sentance and today we have many more survivors. But our system is broken and needs fixing and if the Fed won't do it many states will.

That is provided so called states rights conservatives don't prevent them from doing so under the guise of interstate commerce.

There are some special interests here who like the system just the way it is. They are insurance companies and drug companies. They are major contributors to Congress have lots of money to use to scare people about the dangers of universal care.

So Obama will face some of the same challenges that Hillary did. But I think the country is more ready and whatever we come up with will be more market driven even then Germany's system after all we are America.

If McCain is elected it will take just that much longer to see this change happen. I have to ask the question if thses systems are so awful why conservatives in these countries are in fully support of these system even though many opposed them upon inception?



M. Serderoff & Me
Thank you Mrs. Serderoff, and by reading the rest of the posts it just confirms what I said, and you. There is no way in HEL!, we are ever going to come together on any of these issues. If you liberals think the government can do a better job of running your life than you can, let them, but leave us out of it. Here is an example of liberal thinking. "Republicans are hate mongers, I hate them." Simply astonishing.

Tax Cuts
Tax cuts can and do stimulate demand under certain circumstances. There is less evidence that tax cuts stimulate investment. Therefore if you want to stimulate the economy the logical thing is to give those cuts to people who will most likely spend the money. Middle class tax cuts are therefore more stimulative and more effective. Obama has proposed a middle class tax cut and return the rates of rich to a level that is equal to what they paid under Clinton when everyone was doing better.


Ron Jones
Yea, I get it first its social security and before you know it collective farms and them the KGB, and them Christ is gone. Be afraid be very afraid.

Pistol
You sure are a Pistol. Firstly, there is a life beyond Townhall. Secondly, this is far and away the stupidest frankly offensive question you could ask someone. The only thing that these individuals all have in common besides the fact that they are Democrates is that they are all Black.

Suppose I made up a list of all the stupid and corrupt old white Republicans and there are plenty of them guys like Ted Stevens of Alaska asked the same question about John McCain. I know that I would be jumped on by people like you and you budy VIC and a lot more poster for such a tacky guilt by identification insult to John McCain and you would all be right. So why did your post go unnoticed? Because you can make up any lie and any stupid comprison on this site about Obama and there will be someone who comments what a great post.

I got your message, just another uppity ....



Pistol
Did you notice that your list only contained African American politicians.

Proof positive that a conservatives leaning indvidual can say just about anything on this site without being questioned.

Gideon
You know when you take you arguement to the extreme that do about government. You have to wonder what was the point of the US revolution. If governments are only for the benefits of the rulers, the why replace the king with an equally corrupt elected government. The declaration of independence and the consititution become pretty words written to cover up a corrupt agenda. And the soldiers who fight in wars to protect our government therefore died to protect that corrupt insitition. Finally, it implies that America is really no different than any corrupt dictatorship.

I know that Conservatives think Liberals are just ideolistic fools. But I will take that any day over the view that government is not by the people and for the people.

Thunderthudd
Join the debate. But there is no debate if everyone just agrees. But this is instructive. Make rationale arguements to some conservatives and before you know it they will be calling you names ala Junior High School Style. (Moron, Troll, Commie)

I guess YOU would be more comfortable if townhall were just a mutual admiration society. Kind of like those invitation only townhall meetings GWB held during the 2004 elections where people were rejected for wearing a T shirt that might suggest that they might be critical of the President on an issue.

Name calling demonstrates a kind of rage against people who don't hold their world view. That is why authors like Ann Coulter are popular with Conservatives but Liberal have no equivalent.

Liberals are more open minded.

Rose
Are you aware that it is the Bush administration that has allowed Iraq get away without paying for its own reconstruction even as they sock away 80 billion dollars and it was the Dems in congress who questioned this.

Rose,
Exactly right. Any losses by businesses will be passed onto the consumer. That is such a simple fact that it baffles me why the simpletons on the Left cannot grasp it.

Economics 101
Politicians make themselves look good to the sheep when they shout out that they intend to increase taxes for the rich. It's the rich who provide jobs and own stocks and run major corporations that keep people working. The rich have the capability of passing any increases and expenses and losses onto the consumers by increasing prices for services and goods. It's a vicious cycle that trickles down and creates punishment for the average hard working taxpayers whose wages can't keep up with the escalating cost of living. The high taxes and expenses are passed down to the consumers who aren't told the whole truth about taxing the rich. What they need to do is charge immigrants money who want to take away our jobs and own our land and take over our small businesses. They should charge Iraq for the cost to the American people for saving their country from tyranny since they have excessive oil and should be grateful enough to pay us back for our expenses! What business man or rich CEO would provide all of those services to a foreign country without getting paid for their services, except our U.S. Congress who fails to ask for reimbursement!

National Barack Channel News alert
No offence to sheep, but Obomunists slogan should be “Change ewes can believe in”

Gideon
You are on to some things and off of other things.

Politics is when some people get something for nothing while other people get nothing for something.

If a man pays me ten dollars to clean the stable, we are both ahead. It's a win, win, win situation. I have money to spend, he has a clean stable, and the horse doesn't have to stand around in his own excreta.

I haven't lost my labor, I've exchanged it willingly. He hasn't lost his money, he put it to the use for which it was intended - purchasing a good or service that he desires. The horse, on the other hand....well, I think I've driven that analogy far enough.

all of the people?
I THINK IT WAS PRES. LINCOLN THAT SAID "YOU CAN FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME" COMING FROM THE PARTY THAT PUT CLINTON IN THE WHITE HOUSE 2X, ME THINKS PRES. OBAMA IS A NAME IM GONNA" HAVE TO GET USED TOO.

Obama's Economics 101 deficit
Dr. Sowell makes everything so clear and commonsensical in his dissection of candidate Obama's Economics 101 deficit:

"Senator Obama acted as if he had never thought about it that way. He probably hadn't. He is a politician, not an economist.

"Politically, what matters to the left-wing base that Obama has been playing to for decades is sticking it to "the rich." What effect that has on the tax revenues received by the government is secondary, at best."

And voters are only too happy to oblige, preferring quick fixes and someone to blame, not solutions.

Funny money - Part 4
Errata: the phrase "steal the labor of A and give it to be" in my previous post should have been "A and give it to B". Sorry for any confusion.
My main point is that, while, for self-evident philosophical and economic reasons, the Founders were mostly deists and libertarians, there has NEVER been an open, very public, and scrupulously intellectually honest discussion as to whether it is a better idea, and a better social ethic, to create a collectivism-based system in which 1) the gravitational force is for everybody to try to make a living at the "other guy's" expense by competing for the political power with which to steal money (labor, property) from the "other guy" and put it into our own pockets (aka "socialism"), or 2) whether it is a better idea to create an individualism-based system in which the gravitational force is for every individual to live off HIS OWN labor by learning as much as he can, gaining as many skills as he can, being as ingenius, industrious and productive as he can.
Centralization and "global" "interdependent" helplessness, laziness, greed, and stupidity versus decentralization and self-sufficiency.
There can NO middle ground, only a bunch of false premises and slippery-slope talking points, which is why it must be viewed — by any and all individuals who believe in self-ownership, self-determination and individual freedom — that socialism and socialists MUST be demonized, polarized and defeated if individual freedom is to survive as an economic and societal order.
We've MUST get past the left/right "lesser of two evils" smoke and mirrors to make any meaningful progress in the direction of individual freedom.
That's why I won't be voting for either Change Clown or McDole.

Benton, Re-read
Benton, re-read the article Thomas Sowell just wrote, maybe a couple hundred times or so. Allow it to sink in, past that thick, liberal brain of yours... if you have one.

How In The World

Did that moronic, anti-Liberty, freak JM manage to hijack this board? Hammer and Sickle drivel. Probably a spelling teacher....

Tax rates
The "Laffer" curve never made much sense, at least not the way most people interpreted it and the Reagan administration implemented parts of it.

From the work I've done on taxation and economic growth, it appears that the tax rate is relatively unimportant and that stability of tax rate and law is much more important.

In other words, businesses can operate in just about any environment, but what the economy needs is a clear view of future tax rates and policy so it can plan ahead.

The 1950s are a good example of a high-tax/high-growth era. The important thing then was that government policy was static.

It remains to be seen how these ideas will square with B Hussein O and San Fran Nan, what with their mantra of "Change!" Change is all we will be left with.

Barry

Funny money - Part 3
Quoth JMO51: "Democrates [sic] believe that government can work for the people".
Therein lies DEMS' immense collective, productivity-challenged, steal-and-redistribute, wishful-thinking-based stupidity (WILLFUL ignorance): 1) "government" (in reality nothing more or less than a stupid-human pecking order) has never "worked" for the serf, the so-called "people", but ONLY for those in power (the rulers), in other words, only for the dominant members of the stupid human pecking order (aka social hierarchy) who call themselves "government".
As previously noted, labor (productivity) pays ALL taxes, and is taxed 100% AT ITS SOURCE.
When the employer's loss (money) is granted tax deductible status while the employee's loss (labor, physical effort, productivity) is NOT tax deductible, the inescapable gravitational force is to subsidize profit or gain made from the "other guy's" labor, while de facto directly taxing labor (productivity).
The gravitational force, per Bastiat, is for everybody to try to make a living at the "other guy's" expense instead of gravitating toward decentralization and self-sufficiency.
The "left" wants to use the police power of the state to steal the labor of A and give it to be in the name of "welfare." The "right" likes to use the police power of the state to skew the marketplace so that it benefits their corporations (and thereby their personal financial benefit).
It's all quite simple, really. But it sure is fun watching otherwise intelligent people argue themselves to death on a bunch of anti-Nature and anti-individual false premises!
JMO51 sounds a little like AT and "SoCal Patriot". They contribute nothing constructive to the discussion and should be ignored.

Pistol
Why thank you, I appreciate the kind words.

BTW, some of the other posters here seem to think JM051 is a female. Personally, I have no idea.

At any rate I have to go as there is a thunderstorm rolling in. Have a good night.

Barack,The Robot
When Obama is asked a question he has not been programmed to answer,he has problems. He is like a robot which has a list of words,phrases,answers,etc.

He should just say "This does not compute". Instead,he tries to make up an answer and ends up sounding foolish. He has his news media to rephrase it for him,though.

Today one of his rumored VP choices,Tim Keane was asked what Obama said about the conflict in Georgia. He said Obama told them they should cease fire and end it. Keane said, he was glad the Russians listened to him and did so.

The 'audacity' of this puppet to think Putin is listening to him and trying to please him. His ego knows no bounds. His brain is much smaller,indeed..

Vic
Your posts are quite up to your usual high standard. Thank you for the info.
Now that school has started, i'll have more money, but less time. It whouldn't be too difficult for you and the rest of the TH Stalwarts to pick up the slack for my sporadic efforts. BTW, i note JMO51 disappeared after my query as to why he thinks Obama is not another Kwame Kilpatrick, so i repeated the question. Come on JM)51. Or maybe you think its unfair?

Thanks Doc Tony
I sa a doc recently who said she felt like giving a Medicare patient $25 when he left because that is what he cost her. Of course we all pay more to compensate for government health care that doesn't pay its way.

JMO51
I repeat. Why do you think Obama will do a better job in ofice than Marion Barry, Nagin, Kilpatrick,Dinkins and other prime examples of the Peter Principle?

IN PLAIN VIEW
Each of us has reason to support or not to the candidate that they feel represents them the best, never have I felt so misrepresented, either of the candidates and neither party express my values, my concerns or will adhere to consistency.

There is no way a person such as Obama can identify with my thinking, he is a marxist, he is like Putin a closet liar, he is no more than a one trick pony and a butt boy.

McCain is a wobbly RINO, still, he cannot help himself and he is swayed by ineffectual information that is used to induce hysteria, he too cannot sustain loyalty even to a Republican platform.

JM
Your attempt to understand the HealthCare providers dilemma is laughable. You, madame, are clueless. Medicare payments are on average 60-90 days past due. Medicaid is 90-120+ days past due. These systems typically pay pennies on the dollar when compared with other insurance plans. Many physicians have opted out as Medicare providers which automatically opts them out of Medicaid, as if that is some great penalty. The paper work that corresponds to and regulations which must be follwed to participate in government funded healthcare plans as a provider are stagering when compared with private healthcare plans. That's the government system you want running our healthcare? No thanks. You are clueless. Stop trying to seem informed. You haven't the foggiest.

tell monkey boy to kee his hands off
my property.

“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

--Norman Thomas (Socialist Party presidential candidate Norman Thomas, grandfather of Newsweek's Evan Thomas)

What will Obama be?
I have a question about Barack Hus-Change Obama, which question applies to any minority who could potentially be President:

What will Obama be? Will he be a black man who is President? Or will he be a President who happens to be black?

In other words, will he be a black man first, and look after black issues and the black agenda at the expense of the country, or will he look after the country as he is supposed to?

I expect that America is certainly ready to vote for a President who happens to be black. Colin Powell seems to be an example of that. He was never a "black General" or a "Black Secretary of State" in his mind or the mind of the people (Mass media excepted). He was always a general or the SecState first. The same is true of Clarence Thomas. He's a Supreme Court justice who happens to be black.

We don't need a "Black President," or a "Gay President," or a "Latino President," or a "Woman President." When any or all of those groups are finally represented in the White House, we need them to be American first, President second, and whatever group definition they have dead last.

J
You need to think about how theory of health care runs and how it actually will. As you can see the German government is having lots of problems paying for their health care. Imagine how they are able to micromanage since they are much smaller. We are much larger and wouldn't be able to micromanage but would turn to macro managing. This is exactly why the constitution was written. If the federal government paints a broad brush over everyone with this health care plan, it will inevitably be inefficient. They won't be able to manage at a low enough level for it to be otherwise. State governments have the option to implement health care if they choose and that is how our country was set up. Our constitution set up checks and balances so one sect of our government could not take all the power and if we do not follow it we will fall. It was and still is the most failsafe document against government oppression on its people. It was made for a reason.

J
Do you not see the problem though? Look around at all the things the government has helped run. They are all failing and costing us billions. Medicaid, SS and welfare alone are starting to bankrupt this country.

If things actually ran efficiently all the time, the public sector would always win out, but it does not. The public sector starts to run like a monopoly and their inefficiency starts to show. Eventually they go bankrupt without subsidy.

Did you read my article? It still doesn't seem so...pity. Looks like health care costs are really costing the German government.

CK husler
Paris Hilton could be correctly considered to be self-funded in my example not uninsured.

Ck Husler
You are correct about one thing. You cannot have a system were large portions of the population opt out. Foe example 20 somethings rolling the dice because their risk is low. The German Opt out because few take advantage because the system overall provides good value at a reasonable (not cheap) price.

Here is the key point that every one of my critical posters has glossed over. Conservatives in these countries support the system.

The government works in partnership with the private sector. I believe that it is possible to have a system that is even more private sector driven then Germany and still have universal or near univeral healthcare.

PS I an Ok with Paris Hilton opting out as long as we cover the working poor and eliminate once and for all indigency as a result of illiness.

Inidency for Laziness, corrupt practices , bad business decisions and other risks are fine with me. But not because you happen to get cancer or heart disease or any of the other bad things that can happen to otherwise good people. We need to spead that risk around universally.


JM051
So let me get this straight, this is not socialized health care, yet people who cannot pay for it get it paid for by the government? How is that not socialized health care? Did you not even read that site I put up? Perhaps I should cite it again since you don't seem to be taking any of it in.

http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail6659.htm

Ck Husler
Ding Dong.

In Germany the only people who opt out are the very wealthy. They do so because they don't have to pay for the every people's plan and can use their virtually unlimited purchasing power to platimun pay as you go services from Doctors.

Paris Hilton can have a private floor in the hospital and does not have to pay a penny into the national system. No you could say that Paris is therefore uninsured. A moronic answer or you could cirrect

JMO51
So in essence his plan will change nothing. The poor will still not be able to afford it and the rich will opt out in favor of a private plan. Or does his plan bring on a welfare state for the poor? Which is socialized health care.

JMO51
The constitution was written to take away power from the national government. Why would you want a powerful federal government? The state governments are free to create a state health care plan as they please. Why are you so against the constitution? Why don't you move to Germany or Japan?

I also want to see these better results. I have yet to go to the doctor and get the results I wanted, so how are they getting any better results? Could it be that lower standards makes people think they get better health care? I know many in UK think they get great health care yet when looking into it, their health care sucks. So why do they all like it?

CKhuslers
Obams plan has an opt out so it is not universal or socialist.

JMO51
" Germany even has an opt out clause,...but I will stipulate equal results, if you will stipulate that our medical care for the uninsured is much worse then for their citizens who are all covered."

Umm...thats double talk. If they can op out, they aren't covered. So..which is it?


You talk a big game, but you don't provide any specifics.

I also notice that you didn't answer my question regarding Germany not being privatized.

http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail6659.htm

Care to elaborate?

Liberalism Incompatible With Freedom
It's time to start taking the information provided by these brilliant Townhall authors such as Dr. Sowell and using it to reinstate our Founders' conservative philosophy. The only reason Americans have become foolish enough to consider running a man like Obama for President is because Americans have forgotten what political parties are: different forms of philosophy.

As it stands, there is only one form of philosophy that is compatible with the universal law that "All men are created equal", which is Christian Conservatism.

All other philosophies are incompatible with "All men are created equal", and therefore are proven false. This includes Liberalism, Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Feminism and all other philosophies that enable man to rule over man. This means that it is AGAINST THE LAW to subscribe to Liberalism or any other false philosophy. We as Americans ARE NOT FREE to choose any political party we wish, we are ONLY FREE TO CHOOSE THE CORRECT political party. We are not "free" to subscribe to false philosophy because doing so comes with a price, and that price is Liberty.

Christian Conservatives need to begin attacking the false philosophy of Liberalism like our lives depend on it. If we do not, the we can kiss this little old American experiment goodbye.

More
I don't like Canada's or the UK's system. Too socialist for even my moderate tastes. Doctors should not be forced to be employees of the government

In Germany, France, Japan, Switzerland, and Hong Kong the doctors don't work for the government. Germany even has an opt out clause, but only the wealthy opt out. Their wait times are just as long as our and according to the data they get better results, but I will stipulate equal results, if you will stipulate that our medical care for the uninsured is much worse then for their citizens who are all covered.

The Japanese system provides much greater incentives for preventative medicine which was suppose to be the purpose of HMO's. And get this no one goes broke because of crushing mediacl bills. No one- These systems are not free and why should they be. Everything cost money, but overall their costs are lower and doctors don't have to practice as much defensive medicine.

Finally, there is a spill over effect. If my neighbor is sick and cannot get care or treatment for an infectios or contagious desease and we share a bus seat or a cart at the supermarket he puts me at risk. Economists call this a spill over effect. There is not spillover for hairy back removal people or wht ever you call them.

I recognize this is just too much information for most conservatives with their high IQs to absorb. Just call it socialist and we can dispense with the whole thing. Better yet say the consitution as originally written for the founders does not provide for it.


Doctony
Why don't you dispense with the preamble and the lecture comment and get to the facts. Our Healthcare system is broken. It is not working for the doctors or the patients.

Lets start with your first question. The US has some of the best health care in the country and we are leaders and innovators. This is especially true for new and innovative treatments. Much of this is as you know funded by the government. We also have some the best physicians. But we also have some real problems. One of which is the high administrative costs. Insurance companies of armies of employees whose only job is to reject the forms that you submit for some silly clerical error and every company has a different procedure for each of its different plans. The purpose of this is to keep Doc from getting any of your hard earned money any sooner then they have to. Miss a premium payment and an insurance company will drop you in an instant, but they intentionally delay payments all the time for BS reasons. To combat this problem Physicians require armies of clerks whose only job is to follow up on payments, referrals, etc. Add the clerks they hire and the clerks you hire and all the office space and computers and you are talking about a lot of money. It also makes it very difficult for doctors to go out on their own. The costs are too great. Small practices are being replaced by big practices and kudos to those innovators. The one in my area that I use is terriffic and the doctors are great, but I think many are overworked and have less control over how they practice medicine then a generation before. OK that's lecture but where is the disagreement so far?

JMO51's straw man
"These other systems are not perfect, but on the whole they solve a lot of the problems in our system. So why reject them out of hand. [sic]"

Straw man alert! After posting numerous criticisms of the socialized systems, how could I be rejecting them "out of hand"?

Others have posted similar things. You really are in denial.

Pelousy/Reid
Instead of "Drill Here Drill Now", Obama and the Democrats only chant Tax Here Tax Now. Talk about working for the little people. Wonder how long those enviro-mental giants will last if the American people get hungry and cold...


DocTony
I would have thought that Fidel coming to America for health care would have woken them up to the fact that universal and socialized health care do not work. Mac Moore had everyone thinking Cuba had better health care than the US, but when their leader goes down, he comes here for help.

Im just waiting for European countries to start excluding people from their government health care based on health conditions. Ive heard rumors, but I haven't researched the subject.

Modesty? Well, in that singular instance. I will admit in the overall scheme of things, I am not modest. When talking to liberals on here I am especially insulting at times. I guess after reading them for over a year on here, you kind of treat them like kids from time to time.

I believe our health care system needs some fixing, but government moving in is the opposite of what is needed. I think finding ways to protect doctors from frivolous lawsuits should be priority one. Doctors should be held accountable for life changing errors, but in no way should they be afraid to operate for fear of something going wrong and a lawsuit following. Prices for insurance would begin to lower on that fix alone.

There are other problems, but I do not know enough about the system to go into them indepth.

Surveys
Anyone who puts any stock at all in these so-called ratings of Healthcare and it’s first cousin the ratings of Standard of Living is insane. These ratings are put forth by the more socialist agencies of the U.N. and they look for socialist attributes as part of the rating process. What you wind upwith is the more left leaning a country’s process is the higher it will be rated because, lo and behold if you look for leftism you’ll find leftism.

What is remarkable and bad is that the U.S. is not ranked LOWER on these surveys. We would actually be better off ranked dead last.

CK vs. JM
CKHustler: You demonstrate your intellectual superiority over JMO51 in countless ways on countless threads. Your modesty is refreshing.

As a Trauma/General Surgeon, I assure you that there are ramifications of the type of universal health care that Obama and JM051 are calling for beyond which their naive brains can comprehend. Citing problems in other counties is just the tip of the iceberg.

JM051: Lady, ask yourself one question and try to answer it honestly and then you can bore us all with your lectures. If, and when, you or one of your children is diagnosed with a life threatening illness, where will you seek out your medical care? That questions has been asnwered by countless foreigners. I have seen and treated many of them. Spare us your lectures. You are nothing more than a Marxist trying to redistribute my wealth. Since when did the value of my intellectual/physical labor become something YOU and your cronies get to decide? How would you feel if I decided that your job shaving hairy backs was a a 'right of the people' and determined how you should be compensated? Have you never heard of a market based economy? Please go away.

U.K. Health Care
I talked to a man fresh from England about their system. "Best in the world," he noted proudly.

But ...
1. It takes three days AFTER an appointment to see the doctor because he overbooks. (He is paid by the booking, not the disease.)
2. The system is blocked by those on Welfare since they use this as a form of entertainment. (Oooh! Wonder what he has?)
3. There is NO medical research done. (The ONLY country now doing medical research is the U.S.)
4. Medical equipment, such as EKGs are scarce. (Canada has one per province. The Hospitals have to share it.)
5. Hospitals are paid lump sum by the government at the first of the year. They have to pay all expenses for all injuries and illnesses from that. (Most hospitals have cut back 50% on nurses, staff, and beds.)
6. Waiting for a hospital bed for things like heart surgery can take six months. (Here you get in immediately.)
7. To get in to see a doctor out of appointment sequence due to an emergency requires paying a doctor a retainer. (100 pounds a month - about $1800 a year.)
8. If you get in out of sequence due to an emergency, you must pay 100% of the cost of treatment. (Which means that you can either die waiting for your appointment or you have no insurance at all.)

Does this sound like a great system to you?

JMO51
Yea, Germans have great "private" healthcare. I think you need to look a bit further into that.


http://www.globalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail6659.htm

"Healthcare Spending Matches Germany's Entire Federal Budget as Costs Soar 25% in 10 Years"


Yea, seems privatized to me there JMO

Blatant Socialist Push!
Dear Mr. Sowell,
You wrecklessly missed the most important element of Obama's response to the question of taxes and revenue! Obama subtly threw in, "this is a matter of fairness."
Socialism doesn't work for results, sir, it works for egalitarianism! Regardless! This should have been the focus of your criticism and the focus of the Republican party.
If you analyze this campaign, Obama's speeches, the Democrat's words on whole, Mr. Sowell, THIS campaign is in fact the main front to end the American experiment of freedom and free market capitalism and instill in it's place a socialist regime!!! It is no longer a simple conservative paranoia!
As stewards of this ship that is America, given to us by our four-fathers, we are failing miserably to protect it!
Sincerely,
Rick

JMO51
" Germany even has an opt out clause."

Sorry, thats not universal then bud. That is just regular healthcare.

Rich D.
Thats just a little too easy an out to say there are other factors. So lets stipulate the outcomes many be the same as these other countries. You still have the cost problem and people without coverage or under coverage. Waiting periods, fear that the loss of a job will mean loss of health converage.

These other systems are not perfect, but on the whole they solve a lot of the problems in our system. So why reject them out of hand. Only arrogance or ignorance and a lot of money from the Insurance Lobby will get you there.


The UK and Canada
The UK and Canada are the most socialist of the systems. How about Germany, France, Japan, Switzerland or Hong Kong? Germany even has an opt out clause. And there are plenty of horror stories here as well.

By the way there is one question you can ask. In any of these systems but our own is someone forced into backruptcy and lose their homes. The answer is only one country the good old US of A.

By the way conservatives in those countries support their systems although many opposed them on inception.

So much for JM051's stats...ibid
"Yet even as Stockholm and Saskatoon are percolating with the ideas of Adam Smith, a growing number of prominent Americans are arguing that socialized health care still provides better results for less money. “Americans tend to believe that we have the best health care system in the world,” writes Krugman in the New York Times. “But it isn’t true. We spend far more per person on health care . . . yet rank near the bottom among industrial countries in indicators from life expectancy to infant mortality.”

One often hears variations on Krugman’s argument—that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use, and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health. Americans live 75.3 years on average, fewer than Canadians (77.3) or the French (76.6) or the citizens of any Western European nation save Portugal. Health care influences life expectancy, of course. But a life can end because of a murder, a fall, or a car accident. Such factors aren’t academic—homicide rates in the United States are much higher than in other countries (eight times higher than in France, for instance). In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don’t die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country."

(Correction - a previous post had typo LM051 for JM051)

DocTony
Well, thank you! haha, though I will never claim to have the best grammar. Math and problem solving are much more my strengths, which helps for those IQ tests.

His argument is not very solid though. The idea of universal healthcare means the people are required to have it. If people are required to have something that they either don't want or need, then it no longer falls under the private sector. People have the choice of whether to get healthcare and it affects how they, and they alone, will get healthcare. Something like car insurance is a bit different because if you do not have it, then you affect other people by your decision.

So to say that they have universal healthcare but it isn't socialized, is like splitting hairs. Most every time liberals try to prove a point they must try to split hairs though as the facts are always backing the conservative viewpoint. Liberal ideology is a feel good vote and thought process. It doesn't actually help anyone.

European healthcare [sic?] ibid.
"Nor were the problems I identified unique to Canada—they characterized all government-run health-care systems. Consider the recent British controversy over a cancer patient who tried to get an appointment with a specialist, only to have it canceled—48 times. More than 1 million Britons must wait for some type of care, with 200,000 in line for longer than six months. A while back, I toured a public hospital in Washington, D.C., with Tim Evans, a senior fellow at the Centre for the New Europe. The hospital was dark and dingy, but Evans observed that it was cleaner than anything in his native England. In France, the supply of doctors is so limited that during an August 2003 heat wave—when many doctors were on vacation and hospitals were stretched beyond capacity—15,000 elderly citizens died. Across Europe, state-of-the-art drugs aren’t available. And so on."

More on Canada, ibid.
My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.


Hey JM0

I would respond to that, but as the late, great Alfred E. Newman always said, "He who stoops to conquer, conquers only stoops."

ROTFLMAO! - 2
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.h tml

"Canadian newspapers are now filled with stories of people frustrated by long delays for care:

vow broken on cancer wait times: most hospitals across canada fail to meet ottawa’s four-week guideline for radiation
patients wait as p.e.t. scans used in animal experiments
back patients waiting years for treatment: study
the doctor is . . . out
As if a taboo had lifted, government statistics on the health-care system’s problems are suddenly available. In fact, government researchers have provided the best data on the doctor shortage, noting, for example, that more than 1.5 million Ontarians (or 12 percent of that province’s population) can’t find family physicians. Health officials in one Nova Scotia community actually resorted to a lottery to determine who’d get a doctor’s appointment."

Why does anybody bother to respond to this ostrich-like liberal LM051? Yeah, I'm asking myself that, too.


JMO51
"Conservatives are all about controlling how you live. Only libertarians are true and consistent. They oppose government intervention in your economic life and your private life."

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

So is that why they just cannot get it together ever to gain a majority? Consistent? That explains the liberal and conservative factions within the Libertarian Party that are constantly at war.

What Libertarians want is no rules at all!

ROTFLMAO!
[My comments in square brackets...]


JMO51
Location: NY

Reply # 85
Date: Aug 12, 2008 - 1:33 PM EST Subject: Ckhusler
I will match my IQ against your [yours] anyday [two words]. Germany and [comma, not 'and'] Hong Kong and Switzerland and [extra 'and'] have univeral [spelling] healthcare that is privately run. I [I'll] bet you did not know that? [not a question] Canada and Great Britain have more socialized systems. And guess what [punctuation lacking] in every one of those countries [punctuation] their public rates their system better than citizens in our country do ours. Also [punctuation] they have better statistics [not statistics, outcomes] on mortality and other success measures and it cost [verb tense] less.


But I bet your big IQ did not get you interest [verv tense] enough to learn those facts and they are facts [punctuation, clause structure] . In fact [punctution] even conservatives in those countries support their systems though some high IQ [hyphen missing] conservative [plural req'd.] opposed it originally.

But don't worry if you listen to Rush or Watch Fox News [punctuation], [comma splice] they will come up with some light weight [hyphen missing, or one word] expect who will contradict the data. and [caps] of course you will believe this one lone moran [spelling] because he after all [one word] confirms what you already believe before you even looked into the matter. [construction]

That's what your high IQ will get you.

[Indeed!]

http://www.westcoaster.ca/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=4 456

http://www.simcoe.com/article/105641

The Judge
Based upon the sentence structure, grammatical context and logical construction of the arguments offered by CKHustler and JM051, I, hereby, name CKHustler in possession of an exceedingly higher IQ than JM051. I also award JM051 a one way ticket to any of the countries he listed in his poorly spelled, grammatically incorrect and logically incoherent rant. By the way, we'll take your US passport on the way out.

JMO51
So...in universal...do people have a choice? Or are they required to have healthcare?


You seem to know me pretty good. I don't listen to Rush, I hardly watch any news channels. Though you assume you know much. You know what happens when you assume. So...in Obamas plan, how is he planning on implementing privatized universal healthcare? Seems to me that he wants the government to take over all the people that don't have healthcare. I guess common sense is pretty rare among you liberals though.

And as for IQ...I doubt you have even 3/4 of what I have. haha! Unless of course your in the top 15% of the population, but which by your responses, doesn't seem the case.

JM Hmmm
Perpensity? Yer funny!!

You really know how to show off that GED of yours.

Doctorates aren't handed out like the government give-aways you intend to shove down our throats. You might want to research the man you disparage. His CV is what it is.

Given that you find conservative publications so offensive and substandard, what does it say about you that you are here reading and posting at TH? Follow your own advice and return to HuffPo.

By leaving TH and going to HuffPo, you will raise the collective IQ's of both sites.

JM051
You are the one who posted the diatribe against SS. I guess that it just shows that you are the typical liberal troll who only posts to raise an argument.

Vic
A majority of Americans love social security which must make the communists and this a communist country.

Even GWB claimed to be trying to save SS why would try to claim to save something you think is evil unless you think it is OK to lie to the Public for their own good. By the way the public did not buy it and the proposals to kill SS dropped like a brick.


Maybe, Just Maybe
Some of these smarty-pants can lern to spel.


ThunderThudd
Minding other people's business.

Terri Shiavo
New FCC indecency Rules
Telling Gay adults that they cannot marry.

Conservatives are all about controlling how you live. Only libertarians are true and consistent. They oppose government intervention in your economic life and your private life.


Typical liberal diatribe...
JMO51... You obviously live with your head in the sand if you truly believe the NY Times is going to give you the "truth"...lol.. sure they will... the truth you WANT to hear.. I haven't seen such gullibility in I don't know how long.

Liberals were so arrogant thinking their boy had already won the election. Now it looks more and more like he wheels are starting to come off. We're all starting to see through Obama's facadet and see what he truly is... a big government tax and spender out to screw everyone... nothing more than a typical populist power grubbing politician... So much for being SO different and "above it all"... LMAO...what a joke!

Liberal Fascists (Liberals)

Are experts at minding other people's business.

They want to ban foie gras, SUVs, "hate speech," competition, discomfort, fur coats, all automobiles, poverty, cowboys, free markets, non-liberals, Christianity, corporate income higher than thirty five cents. Have I left anything out?

Ckhusler
I will match my IQ against your anyday. Germany and Hong Kong and Switzerland and have univeral healthcare that is privately run. I bet you did not know that? Canada and Great Britain have more socialized systems. And guess what in every one of those countries their public rates their system better than citizens in our country do ours. Also they have better statistics on mortality and other success measures and it cost less.


But I bet your big IQ did not get you interest enough to learn those facts and they are facts. In fact even conservatives in those countries support their systems though some high IQ conservative opposed it originally.

But don't worry if you listen to Rush or Watch Fox News they will come up with some light weight expect who will contradict the data. and of course you will believe this one lone moran because he after all confirms what you already believe before you even looked into the matter.

That's what your high IQ will get you.


Sowell is second rate
Sowell is a second rate academic and like most conservatives writers skillfully cherry picks the data to serve his world view.

Milton Friedman is a better counter balance to Keynesians like John Kenneth Gailbraith. I don't alway agree with him, but al least he was always consistent. Sowell has demonstrated a perpensity to ignore the behavior of conservatives even when they stray far away from the farm. On the other hand he is hyper critical of what Democrates do. He is a partisan not a serious academic and a bitter and angry one at that. This is true especially lately when conservative governance has been so discredited by the general public.

NPR and the New York Times are not perfect but I would match them anyday with any conservative paper or magazine for at least telling his the truth.



oldsocialworker
Liberals = Welfare
Conservatives = Corporate Welfare

Moderates = No welfare.

Fact is that government is just as big under Republicans as it is under Democrates. Reagan talked a big game but he did not reduce the size of government.

Democrates believe that government can work for the people, Conservative Republicans see government as an institutions to pillage and plunder.

Moderate Democrats like Clinton, Truman and Kennedy are the most effective as are moderate Republicans Eisenhower, Nixon, and George Bush Senior.


New Parody
my blog.
Raise your Hand for the Man with a Plan

Ron
The income tax in ANY incarnation is a horrible idea. No matter how you structure it, it gives the government the POWER to insert itself into the very essence of every person's being. The ultimate intrusion...

Indeed, during the birth of the modern "progressive/liberal" era, liberals squatted down and spawned some of the worst ideas ever conceived in the history of mankind: The 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th amendments to the constitution of the United States. Especially the 19th Amendment, since the men were already doing a marvelous job of mucking things up. By giving the vote to women, all we did was double our trouble.

boone
You hit it on the head there! All democrats are just "feel good" politicians. Whenever issues are voted on, the conservative side of the coin wins out. Even California had to use the courts for gay marriage, yet somehow democrats hold their own during campaigns. People are too easily swayed by rhetoric and empty words here in America.

I've Come To A Realization

After reading some of the posts here.

Ignorance, like truth shall bear witness to itself.

You don't get it
The point of liberal laws in not to help people or raise taxes or protect the country or any of that crap. The purpose is to make those that vote for them feel good about themselves. By raising the tax RATE on rich ( LIE: high unshielded current income ) people you prove you are a good person. Whether the actual amount of taxes increases is besides the point. Similarly if giving money to women if they say they don't know the father of their children, but not if they do -- sure it destroys families and childrens' lives, BUT it shows that you have a big, big heart and really CARE about kids.

S. S. solution
One Tax and Done can become law by writing a single bill:
Effective December 31, 2008, all existing federal taxes, fees, and charges are repealed, and are null and void.
Effective January 1, 2009, all federal tax revenue shall be collected using a single full-income tax levied on living persons. there shall be no exemptions or deductions. There shall be no spending in excess of tax revenue except to fund the national defense during time of declared war.
A three-fifth (3/5) majority vote by the Senate and the House of Representatives is required to increase tax rates.
Sixteen percent (16%) of all tax revenue shall be placed in a separate account not accessible to congress, to fund Social Security and Medicare.
The official definition of income is this: Income shall include, but not be limited to, wages, salary, tips, royalties, stock options, inheritances (not including primary family residences bequeathed to spouses; or family farms or small family businesses bequeathed to family members), all interest including that from municipal bonds, dividends, capital gains (not including increase in assessed value of family home), pension payments, welfare payments, food subsidies, clothing subsidies, housing subsidies, all benefits and perquisites of public office, profits received by owners of small businesses, and proceeds from all criminal actions.

Stick it to the rich
is a shell game. Dems have never defined rich. They use taxation and give away programs to drive inflation. Eventually most people are pushed into ahigher tax bracket but actually have less expendable income. Its theft plain and simple. Obama is another talking head just what we need to complete the destruction of our country,

Obama's mojo depletion
I agree with Dr. Sowell's analysis. Obama is undergoing some serious mojo depletion as voters see beyond the vacuous rhetoric. This was evident during the last several primaries, where Hillary stomped Obama among middle- and working-class white voters. The dynamic changed following Obama's sneering reference to "bitter" middle-Americans "clinging to their guns and religion." His recent Self-Worship Tour in the Middle East and Europe only added to the sense of Obama's presumptuousness.

Of course, Obama has the brain-dead vote locked in. But moderate swing voters were reminded that the world is not Mister Rogers' neighborhood with Russia's invasion of Georgia. The job of President is too important to entrust to some race-hustling community organizer.

Anyone who thinks
that a rich politician is going to stick it to the rich should have their voter registration card burned in front of them. Of course for the Dems, that wouldn't stop them from voting.

Any politician that has to continually refine his message should be laughed off the stage. Obama is refining his message because he never knew what he was talking about in the first place. It is one thing to change or adapt as circumstances dictate but it quite another to be clueless.

Payroll Taxes Steal Real Security
Federal payroll taxes take, including the employer's share (which is really money that could be the employee's), 15.3% of the gross income of even the lowest wage earner.

Using a conservative long term appreciation rate of 7% (vs. market historical returns of 9% or 10%) would yield a $32 return for each $1 invested at age 18 and not withdrawn until age 68. So, even a minimum wage earner ($6.55/hr) would have $66,703 waiting for them for each year they invested their current federal payroll taxes. Even adjusted for inflation (3%/yr), the resulting number in constant dollars would be nearly $17,000, or 20% more than they were making at minimum wage!

And this, unrealistically, assumes they would NEVER increase their income beyond minimum wage. AND if historical returns of 10% are used for the above calculations, the person would have $68,000 waiting instead of $17,0000 for each year they contributed to their OWN retirement account.

A mandated "savings" program like this would yield much better results than current SS benefits, AND when the person died any money left over would pass to his heirs to start businesses, fund education, etc.

Payroll taxes are among THE most worst ideas ever foisted on us by liberals.

However,
Red state whites WILL vote for a black GOP candidate with the appropriate Conservative credentials.

Compliment for Wise Commentary

I must offer my sincere appreciation to the myriad of conservative commentators on this message board who have so eloquently and decisively derided and destroyed the drivel of the leftists who, like jackals in the night, haunt TH message boards.

And now for some comments of my own.

NPR stands for National Proletariat Radio

PBS stands for Proletariat Broadcasting System
(with SOME notable exceptions like the incredible story of Winston Churchhill's life as told by his granddaughter - where are such men TODAY????)

There is no other explanation for the existence of liberal thought except it being a genetic or psychological defect. Perhaps science will find a cure.

Tom: re: O'Vomit Law response
Did you read the posts?

LOL, this is a joke e-mail that is going around the country.

'As a Non-abled person, I can't be expected to keep up with people who have something going for them,' said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as a lug-nut twister at the GM plant in Flint, Michigan, due to her inability to remember 'rightey tightey, lefty loosey.' 'This new law should be real good for people like me,' Gertz added. With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other untalented citizens will finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.

False
"The overwhelming votes for Obama in some virtually all-white states show that many Americans are ready to move beyond race."

Actually what this shows is that these white voters have little to no experience with black Liberal politics, black crime, black sub-culture in their schools and communities, etc. from which to develop fully formed opinions of Obama. In states with high numbers of blacks, the whites tend to vote for the GOP. In states with low numbers of blacks, they tend to vote Dem. Just look at the populations of the red and blue states.

Obama's problem is he is a man without
any principles. He stands for nothing except the usual Democrat Liberal b.s., and he always has. Now, in the limelight of a real campaign, he is finding out that a candidate must be able to explain what he believes.

Because he has no principles, he flops around like a fish out of water, trying to come up with reasons he supports the liberal nonsense he has always accepted. As reality stares him in the face, he begrudingly acknowledges some conservative ideas, then tries to modify them with a dose of liberalism. In the end, he comes off sounding foolish, loses his ultra-left base, and gains no ground in the middle.

His only hope for victory is to go back to the far left, mouthing the same old stuff. Eventually, his base will put him in office, take over the reins of power, and leave him a figurehead of no import.

The answer for our nation is to reject the same old story promoted by the DEM/GOP/MSM propaganda machines. It is the oldest of ploys, to tell a lie over and over until it becomes accepted as true. The lie: We have no other choice, we have nowhere else to go, we must vote the lesser of two evils every election.

It is this scam that allows the elites to keep power to themselves and generates the partisanship that has replaced leadership. It is this myth that has allowed the problems to grow in our country while the elites fight for power, fame, and wealth. This pursuit of power for the party is the main cause of our national decline and it will not be reversed until "we the people" re-assert our authority to govern ourselves according to the principles of the Declaration & the Constitution!

If you wish to see how the elites have perpetrated this scam, visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. Why not? The elites have stolen our inheritance. We should get about the task of reclaiming it. Thanks, Joe

Galbraith's Economics
I remember watching many talk shows with Mr.Galbraith as a guest. He had a good reputation and was interesting to listen to,however most of his talks sounded liberal to me,even then.

It has taken many years to get to the place we are now.Social Security seemed like a good idea at the time. Income taxes did,too. Taxes were meant to be temporary.

Little did we know,it would not end and would lead to socialism-lite. Social Security,for all it's good,has caused people to not save,thinking they can live on SS.

The Government now owns us. From the cradle to the grave we are beholden to the government. It is powerful enough to give you everything and is powerful enough to take it away.

Funny money - Part 2
Wages-for-labor is a zero sum exchange. The employer loses x amount of money. The employee loses x dollar-value amount of labor. The values are equal and the losses are equal, otherwise the voluntary exchange would not have taken place.
Yet, the employer's loss is tax deductible, while in stark contrast, the employee's loss is calculated to have no monetary value (which is a lie or the voluntary labor-for-wages exchange would not have taken place).
Thus labor is taxed 100% AT ITS SOURCE, via plain ordinary legislative expropriation, (aka thievery), in a self-evident and sheer absence of any and all equal protection of law. The remainder of the illusion is merely a wannabe-clever numbers game, long ago exposed by Founder Roger Sherman in his essay, "A Caveat Against Injustice, or, An Inquiry into the Evils of a Fluctuating Medium of Exchange".
At no time has the wisdom of this inherently evil anti-Golden-Rule tyranny-friendly scheme, along with its economics-based ramifications been openly and honestly discussed by "our" neo-feudalist "globalist" elected public "servants".
The reason this is relevant to the topic of discussion is because it clarifies the EXTREME need for polarizing, and subsequently defeating, socialism root and branch, not "reaching across the aisle and working with it so we can get something done."
With all due respect, and very careful consideration, I must disagree with those who have fallen for the "lesser of two evils" political fraud.
The Change Clown is a socialist, so no thinking person could possibly vote for him except as an attempt to weaken the arguments of the race hustlers.
But a vote for McDole is a vote for "reaching across the aisle" and "playing nice" with socialism instead of polarizing it and defeating it.
Accordingly, I will be voting 3rd party on behalf of individual freedom.

JM
You sound like someone still under the illusion that the Clinton economy was so great. First of all, please provide ONE policy that Clinton signed that helped the markets. Secondly, even a cursory glance at the markets of 2000 exposes the FACT that a recession had begun in April of that year. I know it is the penchant of you reality denying liberals to blame Bush for this but the election wasn't held until 7 months later. Someone mentioned the phoney dot.com boom earlier and they are correct. The businesses that provided the catalyst for the Clinton boom were PC manufactures, chip makers, software publishers, and companies that did business solely on the net with no real assets. Clinton had NOTHING to do with ANY of these companies forming NOR did was he a factor in the development of the WWW. Of course we had Algore telling he invented the internet but anyone with 5 seconds of time and a BRAIN knew better.
One last thing. Your view of conservatives and the Republican party is straight from the mouth of your liberal propagandists. All these hateful attributes and phobias you assign to Conservatives and your idiotic belief that only "moderates" are true Republicans is so far off the mark it's LAUGHABLE. Ann Coulter wrote a book called "If Democrats had a brain they would be Republicans!" but I think it's more accurate to say that "When Democrats learn to THINK they BECOME Republicans". You obviously allow someone else to do that for you and your remarks are PROOF.

For voteright
Good job posting the IRS numbers for 2006.

I believe it was 2004, just two years earlier, that the mean income (income separating the top 50% from the bottom 50%) was $27,000.

So the mean income in this country grew by 18.5% in just two years. During those two years unemployment was reduced to 5.5% and held firm there. But all we heard from the left was that the jobs that were being added to the economy were low-paying jobs.

Once again the liberal propaganda has nothing to do with the facts.

Questions for Obama
Two questions that should be put to B. Obama:

1) Do you believe the US economy needs to be stimulated?

2) How does taking money out of the economy in the form of higher corporate and individual taxes stimulate the economy?

Funny money creates own "facts"
The discussion over who pays what percentage of "income" tax is fatally flawed.
A fluctuating medium of exchange is designed solely so the clever can steal the labor of the ignorant.
First, labor (productivity) creates everything of value to humans, so therefore, by definition, whether directly or indirectly, labor (productivity) pays ALL taxes.
Second, no successful business pays any REAL (de facto) taxes, because taxes are calculated as an item of overhead and factored into the price of the item being sold. Only unsuccessful businesses, who have lost their grandmother's life savings and been foreclosed on, pay real taxes.
Third, the word "income" is an intellectual and economic fraud specifically designed to obfuscate the difference between being compensated for your own labor, and making a profit or gain from the "other guy's" labor. For that reason, the word "income" is deliberately not defined with any logical specificity anywhere in Title 26, the Internal Revenue Code.

The O'Vomit Law
Correct me if I"m wrong but this REEKS of Socialism. Haven't these clueless "leaders" LEARNED anything by the collapse of the Soviet Union? The achilles heel of Socialism is that it discourages the entreprenuerial spirit and creates substandard goods and services due to it's forcing businesses to use workers who cannot/will not produce. Goods made in the old USSR were SO bad there existed a massive black market for goods produced outside the Soviet Bloc. Couple this very poor industrial approach with the Socialist penchant for collectivism and it isn't hard to see WHY the system failed so miserably. Thanks for bringing this "proposal" up Vic. Yet another reason to oppose this man's getting elected. One of MANY.

Lon
Does it go against fact? I think you need to research that item a bit more if you are coming to that conclusion.

Summing it up
Here it is in one sound bite.

"Politically, what matters to the left-wing base that Obama has been playing to for decades is sticking it to "the rich.""

That one statement sums up Democrat economic policy for the last 45 years.

The last Democrat to have a policy that was not manifested in resentment of those who are most successful in business was JFK, who was the first to lower the top marginal tax rates (from 90% to 70%).

Everywhere you look (or listen) today we have liberals carrying out their childish holy war against "the rich". Their childish, peevish jealousy and anger blinds them to the reality that without the entrepreneurial spirit and activity that makes "the rich" rich the poor would be even more destitute and the middle class would be poor.

Every time and place that the strategy of punishing the rich for their financial success has been tried the standard of living for everyone has been lowered.

Keep it up morons. Keep refusing to learn from history. You have nothing to lose but your prosperity.

actually
The real objection to the Gibson question is that it took a claim rejected by most economists and presented it as if it was fact. I suspect that Sowell's description of the Galbraith class should be taken to be about as accurate a description as his account of the Gibson question. (Gibson is also the one who asked a question in two debates which started with the premise that an average married pair of college professors made 200,000 a year which required waiting for the laughing to die down to answer).

But to understand Sowells article it helps to replace "economists may say" with "the minority of economists I happen to agree with" it doesn't hurt to instead substitue "the economists who claimed that Clinton's tax bill of the '90's would be a job killer claim"

Rose Ellen
Well, when he is posed with a difficult question, he has to decipher what the questionnaire wants to hear. Depending on who asks the question, you could get totally different responses from him. Does make for very unexpected interviews. haha

Obama's labored responses
Obama is a great teleprompter reader. He is usually articulate. However, he doesn't seem to be as talented in responding to challenging questions. Perhaps it is a lot more difficult for him to come up with a smooth response contrary to his real beliefs.

JMO, crawl back to what?
Liberal ideology requires incessant pillaging of the productive and witless perpetuation of the gov't dependent. There is just so long this can be sustained before we are all working for very little return, and ultimately lose motivation to produce.

You ought to come to work with me for about a week. When I compare the current mentality and amount of dependents to 25 years ago when I first began in my field, its glaringly obvious that great society liberalism is a system by which the quality of life for all detriorates. Most seasoned social workers agree, but see no wy out but to submit to national gov't dependence for all.

So when your nice community (and I can easily guess you live in on) and the rest of the US over time looks more and more like downtown Newark, crawling may become an Olympic sport for most of us.

The Simple Truth
It is absolutely no business of my neighbor to know what is in my pocket. I would extend that to the government as well. It is equally no business of mine to know what is in your pocket.

Can you imagine if your neighbor came to you after doing some unsolicited 'job' and then demanded you pay him for it? How is this any different from the countless schemes BO is espousing? You would rightly tell your neighbor to go scratch. That's exactly what we all should tell the 'Do-Gooders' in our government.

I am the most uniquely qualified to care for myself and my family. I accept that responsibility entirely. Now get your grubby hands out of my pocket and get the heck out of my way so I can do it.

to overcome poverty
Remember the odd (for him) speech that Obama gave that the road to avoid poverty was to get a high school diploma, stay married, and keep a job (instead of blaming white people all your life) that Obama sounded like he had just read a book by Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams. Then he turns around a few days later and says learn a foreign language is a big item. It sounds like there is no basic core economic belief that this guy has so that he could understand that the problems to overcome poverty are first addressed by the basics that must be taken care of. Learn English before you think about learning a foreign language.

Income inequality
Success, with its resulting income inequality, used to be the American Dream. Once we destroy that dream, the only problem we will have solved is that of illegal immigration.

JM051
Do yourself a favor. Rather than read the NYT or listen to NPR read something scholarly that was researched, factually documented and penned by a real expert in the field.

Allow me to suggest Dr. Sowell's (Doctorate in Economics) Economic Facts and Fallacies.

As DrPete succinctly summarized, there is an entire chapter on the fallacy you espouse as 'truth.'

Maybe you'll sound a bit smarter if you're not quoting 'All Things Considered' or a paper with such infamous 'authors' (aka plagarists) as Jason Blair. Don't you ever grow tired of embarrassing yourself? Let me guess. NO!

JMO51
"Certainly, it is not Obama who has never advocated Socialized Medicine he is in favor of a plan to bring us closers to univeral healthcar"

Does anyone see how ignorant this feller is? Its almost funny, and then you remember his vote actually counts! We need an IQ test or something for voting!

pt 2

Mandatory non-performance-based raises and promotions will be given so as to guarantee upward mobility for even the most unremarkable employees. The legislation provides substantial tax breaks to corporations that promote a significant number of Persons of Inability into middle-management positions, and gives a tax credit to small and medium-sized businesses that agree to hire one clueless worker for every two talented hires.


Finally, the AWNAA contains tough new measures to make it more difficult to discriminate against the Non-abled, banning, for example, discriminatory interview questions such as, 'Do you have any skills or experience that relate to this job?'


'As a Non-abled person, I can't be expected to keep up with people who have something going for them,' said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as a lug-nut twister at the GM plant in Flint, Michigan, due to her inability to remember 'rightey tightey, lefty loosey.' 'This new law should be real good for people like me,' Gertz added. With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other untalented citizens will finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.


Said Senator Bambi (D-IL): 'As a Senator with no abilities, I believe the same privileges that elected officials enjoy ought to be extended to every American with no abilities. It is our duty as lawmakers to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her inadequacy, with some sort of space to take up in this great nation and a good salary for doing so.'


new O'Vomit law
Americans with No Abilities Act (AWNAA)

OBama is considering sweeping legislation that will provide new benefits for many Americans. The Americans with No Abilities Act (AWNAA) is being hailed as a major legislative goal by advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition.

'Roughly 50 percent of Americans do not possess the competence and drive necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society,' said California Senator Barbara Boxer. 'We can no longer stand by and allow People of Inability to be ridiculed and passed over. With this legislation, employers will no longer be able to grant special favors to a small group of workers, simply because they have some idea of what they are doing.'

In a Capitol Hill press conference, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pointed to the success of the U.S. Postal Service, which has a long-standing policy of providing opportunity without regard to performance. Approximately 74 percent of postal employees lack any job skills, making this agency the single largest U.S employer of Persons of Inability.

Private-sector industries with good records of non-discrimination against the Inept include retail sales (72%), the airline industry (68%), and home improvement 'warehouse' stores (65%). At the state government level, the Department of Motor Vehicles also has an excellent record of hiring Persons of Inability (63%).

Under The Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million 'middle man' positions will be created, with important-sounding titles but little real responsibility, thus providing an illusory sense of purpose and performance.

cont..

Obama and the Rich
When will it occur to us that without the "rich" there would be no jobs, no corporations who hire multitudes of people, the oil companies who provide us with fuel for our ecomony, no businesses to give us the materials we need to survive? To envy the rich for their ability to work and accomplish something that helps us all, is a futile stance to guide our ecomony. Let us help those who CANNOT help themselves, but require those who are just lazy and want a handout to get a job and realize that every "chair must stand on it's own bottom." This is the answer for success in any endeavor.

Dilemma
What to do? What to do? Should we punish the "evil" rich by raising tax rates or increase tax revenue by lowering tax rates so we can fund more programs for "social justice" ?

Reject both the Democrat and the Democrat Lite.
Sowell for President

JM051 (2nd post)
What a consistent Communist you are. FICA and SS were established by that great communist of your party, FDR. All of the other socialist schemes that are part of SS were established by your party. Why are you not writing your party officials and screaming to get rid of it?

As for that old common lie about the rich getting richer during the evil Bush admin why not go ahead and admit it. The rich get richer during economic recovery, the poor get richer during economic recovery but at a slower rate than the rich. In fact, if you look at the numbers the rich got richer and deviated more from the poor during the Clinton years than they did during the Bush years.

ALL

Pardon me if this shows up twice.

McCain v Obama
They both remind me of a saying we had around the farming Community I grew up in, before comming to America as a legal, yes, and I reapeat,as a legal immigrant 52+ year ago, and it went like this: The same "bowel movement" (for not using the right word) but only a little different in color and smell".

America is locked in on a Titanic journey called: Imperialism! Yes, Mr. Sowell is now wasting his precious time, so typical by the so callled conservatives, trying to paint Obama worse than he is and McCain to look better than he really does.

Yes, Ron Paul spoke truth, but treated like the small vessels sending warnings, while the Titanic full steam ahead ended up hitting the iceberg real well!

On
The money again Thomas, 5 stars.
And let me add that if an old grunt like my self has seen through this masquerade from the start, I don't know why people who claim to be so enlighten (libs) are so dim.
Wobbie, when it happens, you have to live in Hollywood even tho you are not that good an actor at playing the part of a conservative.

LMAO (not used with seatbuffers permission)

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Tax rate and revenue
I literally stood up in my living room and cheered when Charles Gibson asked BO why he wanted to raise tax rates when history has shown higher tax rates to DECREASE revenues to the treasury, and lower tax rates to INCREASE revenue. I couldn't believe the MSM actually called him on it! BO didn't know what to say, other than he didn't know if it would raise or lower revenue, but he wanted rates to be "fair", proving his desire to stick it to the rich over actually decreasing the federal debt.

I'm glad that someone else remembered the interchange. McCain ought to run it as a campaign commercial.

To JM 51
Sorry, but payroll taxes are not the same as income taxes. It is folly to mix Social Security tax with Federal and State income taxes. SS tax is designed as a retirment safety net, which would serve the "little guy" more than the "rich person". We are, in essence, deferring our income for retirment (albeit at a horrible rate of return). Theoretically, we get back what we put into the system, so "the poor" are not being cheated here. President Bush tried to reform the system, to allow us to keep and invest more of our own money, and the Democrats shot it down (your Democrats). So don't go there.

In terms of the economy under Bill Clinton. It was not any better than it has been for most of the 2000's. It just received more favorable press. All keey economic stats during the 90's were actually worse than thay have been in Bush's term. Additionally, Cliniton had the phony dot-com boom to buoy the economy, and we all know what happened when that bubble burst. Much of the growth of the past 20 years can be directly attributed to the favorable tax policies enacted by President Reagan (horrors!), which encouraged investment in start-up businesses that ruled in the 90's.

The Galbraith Effect
Excellent analogy. Thanks

Ducks and Substance
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and poops everywhere like a duck, then it must be a duck! The same applies to leadership substance. If a politician talks, writes, and walks in glowing generalities, then they have no leadership substance! Obama has clearly shown no substance and we should see this and walk out on his classroom immediately!

Holographic Obama
I see Barack Obama as a type of holograph that has been programmed to speak only that which is in keeping with PC liberal ideology- which falls flat in the non-protected larger world. His recent comments regarding the Georgia/Russia situation were yet another revealing moment of his lack of understanding and ability to lead anything other than a group of adoring fans. However, if my high school (where I work) ever needs a new peer mediation coach- he's the go to guy.

Carter and Watergate
Carter is simple to explain. We had Watergate, and he ran as a Washington outsider who was going to change the way we did business inside the "beltway". Remember Obama hasn't been nominated yet and the election season is still about one month away. People want specifics and he can't give us specifics because he doesn't know any. He's was created by the media, no substance.

Sowell Article
Thomas Sowell is absolutely brilliant. Why doesn't HE run for President? There are so many intelligent and more qualified black candidates who should be in the Presidential race instead of the likes of Obama who knows zilch about the economy, the military and more. He is inexperienced and green (no pun intended). I have to cast my vote for McCain.

Great wake up
How very apropriate to read this column as the sun is just beginning to lighten the east One can only hope a little of the common sense will shine thru to the libs. Everythime I hear Obama try to answer an unexpected question, and stutter and stammer, I keep getting the feeling that he is a programed robot.

drpete
drpete great post...of course jmo51 and his ilk will continue to ignore hard facts.. vjf

JMO51
Good morning. At last, an Obama supporter who could be issues oriented. As a typical white person etc, etc, i have reservations about Obama. I don't want McCain to get elected because i don' think he will do much better than Obama, with the added downside that conservative principles will continue in the current lose/lose situation of being blamed for disaster while not being practiced. If Obama is in 2 things seem likely, which may well result in new attitudes towards govt solutions. Obama will increase the cost and size and power of govt. He says he will and i believe him. Also, since he is a big city black activist politician, he will continue the traditions blazed by Fred Dinkins, Marion Barry, Ray Nagin, Alcee Hastings and Kwame Kilpatrick. The performance of these men does not seem to bother their supporters, many are still serving in elected posts. On a national basis, i still have hopes none of these could be elected president.

to JM051
I think of Daniel Patrick Moynihan, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Between 1996 and 2005 income earners over age twenty-five increased their earnings in real dollars by an average of 24 percent. Of those who were in the lowest earnings quintile in 1996, their earnings grew by 90.5 percent by 2005, almost double. The second-lowest quintile earners had their earnings grow by 34.8 percent. The third, fourth and fifth quintile folks achieved gains of 23.3, 16.6 and 10 percent respectively. Splitting the top quintile further, of those in the top ten percent in 1996 their earnings grew by a mere 2.9 percent while the top five percent lost 6.8 percent. The top one percent lost 25.8 percent of their earning power during those ten years.

sederoff
The problem with you theory is that most people are moderates. Sure there are crazys on the left and crazy on the right. But most people have more moderate and sensible views. Given that Townhall is the hole to quite a few Right Wing Crazys you can begin if you hang out here to think your views are in the mainstream. They are not.

Also Obama is winning in every poll. Not as much as before, and not as much as one would expect after the disaster that was GWB, but he is still winning in both the national and key swing state polls.

Conservatives can barely tolerate McCain whereas Obama's base is energized. When he wins Conservatives can crawl back under the same rock they were under before the Reagan Revolution. A fringe part of the more Moderate and mainstream Republican Party and Conservative commentators can go back to writing angry bools about how the American People are stupid.

BHO is...
BHO is a politician running for president of USA to put foward his ideas of a socialist Nirvana in USA. If he suceeds we will suffer...vjf

The Galbraith Effect
It also reminds me of the campaign of Jimmy Carter. I don't know how many of you remember his campaign, but it was mind boggling.

This peanut farmer from Georgia literally came from no where. The big joke during his campaign was "Jimmy Who?". No one had heard of him, and he would never have been elected if it had not been for the media.

I use to be aghast when interviewers would ask him a question, and he would dance around the question without ever answering it. Then everyone in the room would nod their heads like his answer was SO profound and wise. I was embarrassed for our country. My husband would say, "He never answered the question!" and we couldn't believe that everyone let him get away with it. I think in the end, even the Liberals regretted supporting Carter.

But that is what happens when we allow the media to do our thinking for us.

Larry
I agree with you whole heartedly. The differences between Liberals (American Socialists) and Conservatives will never be resolved. Trying to create one nation out of such a huge split in values is impossible. It is no more likely than it would have been to try and merge the KGB with the CIA.

Trouble is, I don't think Hollywood, with all the lip service they pay to pacifism, would ever go quietly into the night. Remember, their idol, Karl Marx, is responsible for the political vision that has murdered more people than any other on the face of the earth.

Moonbat Exterminator
The reason that the Republican Brand is in the toliet. The tricke down didn't trickle to them. The record on that is clear during the Bush years the rich got a lot richer, while middle class incomes remained flat.

You are blinded by your ideology. My prescription is that listen to NRP or read the New York Times or Washington Post for a while. Who knows you just might learn something.


Obama through the Sowell lens
I thank God for Thomas Sowell, an educated man who has chosen to develop the faculty of seeing and thinking clearly, especially valuable at times 'when all about you are losing..' [their heads] '...and blaming it on you'. Our beloved Country is continually in great danger from politicians who take her liberty for license to weaken her. Let's keep her flame strong and free.

What a great way to start the morning
Sensible column by the brilliant Dr. Sowell. INsigtful comments and expressions of patriotism by by the posters. I especially appreciate the post by A. Benton. Sir or Madam, the Democratic party left you and Reagan at about the same time. Voter inertia is a powerful factor. Reagan apparently did not have sufficient appeal to break you loose. I assume Obama has opened your eyes. I hope you are not the only one, and now i'm beginning to hope he does not have to be elected for his politics to be seen as the abomination they are. Now if McCain would just pick a nice conservative VP, get elected, and resign.

Don
Who are these vaugue liberals that you speak about. Certainly, it is not Obama who has never advocated Socialized Medicine he is in favor of a plan to bring us closers to univeral healthcar and if you took a moment to listen before you shot down the idea as some sort of communism you would realize that what he os proposing has nothing to do with socialized medicine it is a market based system.

Lets try the same crap out on conservatives. We all know that conservatives are only interested in serving big corporate interests and wall street. They are war mongering hawks who think diplomacy is for sissys. They are paranoid that the country will be overun by spanish speaking people. They are homophobic and hate anyone whose lifestyle does not match their leave it to beaver famtasy. Oh, and by the way they love the troops as a symbol, but when it comes to providing them with services they see them as just part of the underclass and their needs as an entitlement something they hate.

Voterright
when you factor in FICA which of course is capped you get a whole different picture of the tax distribution. You also don't into account the effect of cutting taxes on the wealthy causing a budget short fall that is in part covered by users fees. So the next time you go into a national park and pay twice as much to enter that is a tax as well and it is regressive. It seems that the economy was doing a lot better when Clinton was in office and Obama's real plan, not the one that is made up about him from right wing bloggers has the taxes on the wealthy being no more than what they were under Clinton.

Independent reviewers have said that Obama's would put twice as big a tax cut in the hands of the average middle income family then under McCain and at the same time have less of an impact on the deficit.


Tinkle Down Theory
One of the underlying principles of supply-side theory is the trickle down effect which holds that when capital formation is taxed at lower rates activity that is capital intensive(ie investments) increases. As a result, more jobs are created and income rises. The libs, being the elitist Bozos they are offer as a competing idea the tinkle down theory, in which they drink champagne in copious amounts and tinkle the residue down on those of us hicks in the sticks.

Putin knows Obama
and he is gambling on the loudmouthed college kid American Idol party to carry the day here whereupon he can rampage unopposed.

I hope there are enough adults in the building to thwart him. I am not as cynical as I was in May, but the dice are still in the air.

Election
As a Democrat of more than 45 years I have to say, "We Democrats simply have no candidate in the coming General Election". I will be voting for Bob Bar, and hope to see almost all Democrat and Republcian Members of the House and those Senators up for re-election who got us into this econmic predicament defeated by either the American Independent Party candidates, or those of the Libertarian Party.

What a suprise
Typical of the spineless yellow bellied coward he is, after personally attacking several posters who aren't even online, in another thread, Wobbie slinks over to this thread where his only post is to sign offline for the night.

What a great example of courage and honor from one who's claimed to be an officer in the United States Navy.

Thanks Dr Sowell
You have saved me immeasurable time and effort during this contentious political season. I simply plagerize you (cut & paste) and leave my opponents speechless. Increase in productivity , indeed.

Disagree Soemwhat
There are currently 6 income tax rates on income, 10%, 15%, 25%. 28%, 33%, and 35%. There is an effective 7th rate that is accomplished by eliminating deductions as well and the abominable AMT rate.

Normally I would agree that we should tax at a rate that gains revenue, however I am not in favor of taxing one type of income less than others. We gave up fair taxing in this country in the 18th century when it was decided that we would tax sin and it hasn’t changed since then. So it is hard to now make the argument that we should tax at rates that gain the most revenue even as this is supposed to be the reason for taxes.

I do not see the fairness in taxing Joe Sixpack at a rate of 28% on his income because he drudged through 8 hours a day of factory work while John J. Investment speculator gets taxed at only 15% because he makes his money buying and selling things.

What we should have is a flat rate for every source of income regardless of amount and source. In my way of thinking that would be 10% on everything from wages to profits and amounts from zero to infinity. No deductions, no write-offs, no subsidies, and no “incentives”.

Irreconcilable Differences
Our country was founded because people longed for freedom. In today's America it seems only conservatives and possibly Libertarians wish to be left alone to live free. I'm tired of fighting my own countrymen for freedom. It may be time to end "the marriage". Liberals and Conservatives have irreconcilable differences" that will never be resolved. Perhaps, (without) war we should simply split in two. The libs can have Hollywood and we'll take the Constitution and the military. This way they can have their Utopia and we can just be.

Taxes paid according to IRS
BREAKDOWN OF INCOME AND TAXES PAID BY CATEGORY
Income Category 2006 AGI Percent of All Income Percent of Income Taxes Paid
Top 1% Over $388,806 22% 37%
Top 5% Over $153,542 37% 57%
Top 10% Over $108,904 47% 68%
Top 25% Over $64,702 66% 85%
Top 50% Over $31,987 87% 97%
Bottom 50% Under $31,988 13% 3%
Source: IRS

Laffer Curve, cont.'
Critics of the "Laffer Curve"(and even some of its proponents, too) clarify the theory's application by saying that there is in fact a rather delicate and mysterious balance point or a limited window of tax rates/economic activity wherein its magic actually applies to larger revenue streams. Fine.

What liberals moreover fail to do when discussing tax rates and revenue is not just to ignore the best economic theory and its practical application, they very often willfully defy it in their dystopian dreams of the Big Rock Candy Mountain, where soaking the rich results in a cascading cornucopia of free lunches, socialized medicine, and cash payments to the underclass.

We must prod and poke them harder when they are ignorant, as Obama was with the mildly persistent Charlie Gibson, and we must counter their agruments with hard facts when they are defiant and deceitful, as with the deluded or obfuscating Laffer-Curve deniers.

The Laffer Curve/Revenue Claims
I love how Mr. Sowell brings up that debate when Charlie Gibson stumped Obama with the thing about higher capital gains taxes resulting in decreased revenue. Obama was genuinely caught like a deer in the headlights of reality, and could only stammer about "Well, maybe not..."

But liberals aren't merely always just ignoring such effects of The Laffer Curve, as Sowell says; often they are stridently arguing the opposite--that increasing taxes will result in increased revenue.

One piece I read recently by some leftist moonbat insisted that raising marginal rates on the super rich would completely pay for a plethora of new and existing social programs and agendas by resulting in a windfall of new revenue.

I pointed out(to the person who'd shoved the article at me) that increasing taxes generally results in lower economic activity, investment, start-ups, expansion, job creation, etc.--The Laffer Curve--and that lowering taxes brings in more revenue because the increased activity is still taxed, resulting in greater revenue, and so on. We saw this with the booming Bush economy and record revenues that accompanied his historic tax cuts.




Kae Sea
Don't forget the 10s of thousands of felons the Democrats are registering to vote in Florida. I'm sure there will be a huge number of corpses showing up at the polls in November too.
The reason they need the extra help is these words which Obama taught to other ACORN street organizers:
Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future.

Rules for Radicals, Sal Alinsky

It's the reason for the oil embargo. It's the reason for the giveaways he promises. It's the reason for the Global Poverty Act. It's the reason for the highest taxes American citizens will ever experience in its history compliments of Obama. It's called Socialism/Marxism. That is Obama's "change" and he "hopes" he'll be able to hoodwink the entire country to achieve it.

KaeSea
What you said!

Putin is still KGB
We might as well get used to it, the ruskies want their old Soviet Union back. They threaten us because of our having the audacity to develope an anti missile system to protect ourselves when thet tried to develop one for yaars and failed because of lack of expertise. It is like telling the cops they can't wear bullet proof vests because the criminals can't kill them as easily. We need power so awsome and so overwhelming that pipsqueeks like Putin have to think long and hard about threats. I will pay extra taxes for that.

my bad
Sorry if I repeated myself.

Kae Sea
Ex-Navy here. I'm with ya my brother.

Kae Sea
Ex-Navy here. I'm with ya brother.

The USSR rides again
Putin and the party have been waiting for the most appropriate time to "take back" those renegade ethnics who dared leave the Soviet "fold." Putin will push this as far as he is able....while thumbing his nose at the rest of the world and claiming any interference is butting into their internal affairs.

Putin knows GW is overextended. Putin knows the American people will not underwrite any military action. Putin knows that NATO as currently constituted is a "toothless paper tiger." Where weakness exists the vaccumn will
be filled.

Putin is a modern day Stalin.

Economics vs Politics
The not so subtle statement that resounds from this article is what has dismayed me about the democrat party for time immemorial. How is it that the democrats can be so willing to promote policy that destroys economically simply because it will win politically? There is no greater evil in my mind than the man (or woman) who will satisfy the masses knowing the emotional solution they provide will win votes but won't improve their status one iota. The health and vitality of the nation be damned, they want power.

Putin's Present
As much as I deplore and am outraged by the actions of the past 48 hours and counting, I confess to, begrudgingly, admire the cojones displayed by Comrade Vlad in his grand land grab in Ossetia and Georgia; it is nothing less than breath-taking in its AUDACITY*.

Having said that, Putin just gave John McCain the gift that keeps on giving; he gave McCain the election.

In the short-term, Putin must be answered! I have no illusions that the Europeans possess the huevos necessary to blunt this affront, but blunt it someone must.

Before the resident trolls start the "Neo-Con" chant, let me preemptively respond by declaring that, at an age approaching 50 years, and with the physical debilities that results from decades of physical abuse, both recreational and occupational, I stand ready to serve in any capacity to put things back to right.

I only ask that the trolls do not follow my example because the last thing we need in homeland defense is girly-men where manly-women would be preferable.

I wait with baited breath to see if there is any fight left in the Frogs - if ever there was some; myself, I think that instinct died at Waterloo - or if our German friends are still shell-shocked from that ignominious defeat of 63 years ago, or most probably, the world once again expects Uncle Sam to make things right.


* The word actually has a meaningful definition, one that has nothing to do with Obama's book, or Obama himself, for that matter.

Obama
I have to believe the closer we get to the election and the more people start paying attention the further his poll numbers will fall. There is simply too much going on for "on the job training".

Obama's base...
Obama's base, meaning the kosacs at KOS, the residents at moron.org and the huff-n-puffs at huffpo will be there on election day, most likely voting in triplicate. My concerns are the votes from the apathetic middle, those nice folk who are above the political fray, you know, the ones who pay no attention to the issues, let alone what any candidate intends to do about said issues; the ones who vote the democratic line because that's what Dad did; the ones who get all their news from....

I'm sorry, I have to go the rest room to vomit.

Another effect
If we can just add the Bradley effect to the Galbraith effect, there's real hope! Thanks for another great article, Dr. Sowell.
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