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Thursday, June 26, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Imitators: Part III
by Thomas Sowell
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Some of the people who are most adamant against outsourcing economic activity from the United States to other countries often seem to think we should outsource our foreign policy to "world opinion" or act only in conjunction "with our NATO allies."

Like so many things that are said when it comes to public policy, there is very little attention paid to the actual track record of "world opinion" or of "our NATO allies."

Often there is a blanket assumption that European countries are just so much more sophisticated than American "cowboys." But there is incredibly little interest in the track record of those European sophisticates whom we are supposed to consult about our own national interests-- including, in an age when terrorists may acquire nuclear weapons, our national survival.

In the course of the twentieth century, supposedly sophisticated Europeans managed to create some of the most monstrous forms of government on earth-- Communism, Fascism, Nazism-- in peacetime, and to start the two World Wars, the bloodiest in all human history. In each of these wars, both the winners and the losers ended up far worse off than they were before these wars were started.

After both World Wars, the United States had to step in to save millions of people in Europe from starving amid the wreckage and rubble that their wars had created. These do not seem like people whose sophistication we should defer to.

Between the two World Wars, European intellectuals-- more so than ordinary people-- completely misread the threat from Nazi Germany, and were urging disarmament in France and England, while Hitler was rapidly building up the most powerful military force on the continent, obviously aimed at neighboring countries.

During the Cold War, may European intellectuals once again misread the threat of a totalitarian dictatorship-- in this case, the Soviet Union. When they finally recognized the threat, many saw the question as whether it was "better to be red than dead."

They were no more prepared to stand up to the Soviet Union than they had been ready to stand up to Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

Worse yet, much of the European intelligentsia objected to America's standing up to the Soviet Union.

Many of them were appalled when Ronald Reagan met the threat of new Soviet missiles aimed at Western Europe by putting more American missiles in Western Europe, aimed at the Soviet Union.

Reagan, in effect, called the Soviet Union and raised them, while many of the European sophisticates-- as well as much of the American intelligentsia-- said that his policies would lead to war.

Instead, it led to the end of the Cold War. Are we now to blindly imitate those who have been so wrong, so often over the past hundred years?

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Euorpean Ideas
And the worst idea was the United Nations, thoroughly corrupt, and willing to turn a blind eye to genocide, find a copy of, and view "The Devil Came on Horseback," both a book and a documentary film about the "problem in the Darfur" region of the Sudan. The "Oil for Food" scandal was bad enough, but the willingness of these scoundrels to turn a blind eye upon that which they are charged to prevent, is beyond belief. The UN must go. This story is truly sickening and demonstrates the corruption of the UN as no other story, book or documentary has ever attempted.

The US has pulled
some foolish stunts, but when it comes to comparison with others we look like geniuses. Read The Gathering Storm and Their finest HOur by Churchill to get a nauseating blow by blow account of the ccowardice and wishful thinking of every European govt as one by one they went the appeasement route...and were gobbled up. Up to now, American pride, confidence and patriotism have carried us through. But the education system and media no longer support these. So many Americans are ignorant of what they have they may not think it is worth defending. The Aggressors forget that even a rat will fight when it realizes it is trapped, and so from the fall of France to Pearl Harbor Britain fought a lone desperate battle, hopeless unless help arrived. Once again arrogant bad guys made worse mistakes, and representative govt squeaked by again. The fools citing 4000 American dead have no sense of proportion. A grim and bloody investment, to be sure, but well worth it if it cautions other aggressors that America will fight for our interests.

The missing element
they cannot see, is our true patriotism, waiting in our hills. When the chips fall, there will be a resistance to shame all prior attempts at "resistance". The indomitable force of the American will overcome, and no force on Earth will withstand it! The strength of America, is its citizen control.

The Constitution needs us to step up and demand its adherence by all three branches, and the resurgence of the federalism that empowers states and dis-empowers federal interference in states' affairs! But, mainly, … we need to stand strong in the world,… with our chests and chins out!

Litmus Test
Any candidate for whatever office, be it dog catcher or POTUS who would subordinate the best interest of our country to "world opinion" should be removed from the ballot for being blatantly unfit for office. Where the rubber meets the road, the Euros don't give a sh*t about us, so why should we give their opinion any more weight? The message to any foreigners should be "We can be the best friend or the worst enemy any nation ever knew. Which it will be is up to ypu."

Imitators
I pray to God that America never grants any substance to such otiose notions as "world opinion."

World opinion
Once again beautifully said. But then again to borrow a phrase " you can't fix stupid".

You got it so wrong
Was it deliberate?

"...Instead, it led to the end of the Cold War. Are we now to blindly imitate those who have been so wrong, so often over the past hundred years? "

Two points: First, the Western World led by the US won the Cold War. It was the European nations that were willing to put their entire country and populations at risk by allowing and supplementing US forces. We could not have won the Cold War without firing a shot if it was not for our allies. The strength of the NATO alliance, just as of the US is the very diversity you oppose.

Second, after WWII much of Europe modeled itself on the US. They show a path we would have taken without the poison of conservatism. But that is diversity also. Now it is time to rebuild and restore America after this extreme conservative disaster and orgy of incompetence.

Imitators

The far left is enamoured with the European mindset because they can get the "chic" without the substance.

Only Neocons think about the possibilities of war, their cappochino is cold and did you here the one about the Milan Fashion show?

Neitche must be popular again. God is dead so now they have an excuse not to be effective or to speak out against socialism. They are so satisfied they don't even bother to procreate anymore. I wonder when the european governments will start services for that particular act.

Everybody is "taken care of" so they have nothing to do but grouse about the highly subsidized farmers on strike and their mother, who died in the heat wave two years ago. They weep "the government should have looked after her."

Time to vote in a better socialist.



Who got it wrong?
Hal Donohue once again makes up his own facts. The Western World had nothing to do with winning the Cold War. Three individuals, Pope John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher, and Ronald Reagan, won the Cold War with very little support from their own constituencies, let alone any of the European elites. Their populations were more at risk from the unilateral disarmament they proposed and that was supported by Carter than anything Reagan ever did.

After WW II Europe modeled itself after the U.S. because it worked. Their current malaise is a result of their drifting away from conservatism. The fixes they now seek is to become more conservative a la France, Italy, etc. The U.S. is currently experiencing slower growth (no recession) but it still leads the world. The grief we experience is, once again, the result of liberal irrationality, not conservatism.

Reply to # 2 comment
Gees guy, where did you go to school? To say Europe showed a path we would have taken if not for conservatives is truly ignorant of history. Most of western Europe was and is socialist. Is that the path you wish for the USA? sorry, dumb question. to your way of thinking, of course it is.

now it is not # 2.
my response was to Hal Donohue. And, Mr. Right has it exactly right.

'You got it so wrong' reply off target..
Hal, in your 'you got it so wrong' reply, you seem to have an intolerance for conservatism, perhaps it is you instead who suffers from a lack of 'diversity' in your thinking..
I don't see how 'diversity' is supposed to be attacked in the article.

Dr. Sowell mentions several examples where Europeans found themselves trapped by tyrannical governments- all of which should make one question why we would follow the European 'lead'.




Hal Donahue
Your indoctrination in pure leftist dogma is now complete.

As Mr. Right pointed out, your comments are 180 degrees out of phase.

The populations of the three countries mentioned by him elected conservatives friendly to the U.S. for the first time in years.

That is hardly a repudiation of the "poison" of conservatism - and all the "spinning" you attempt will not change this fact.

Don't EVEN try to sell me that you are a "moderate" anymore, Hal. You are clearly an unrecovering leftist Koolaidaholic.

Hal Donahue
What do you mean that the Europeans modeled themselves on the US after WWII?
1-France was a republic before, during and after WW1 & WW2.
2-Germany is a democracy.
3-Before during and after WW2 all were much more deeply involved in socialism than the US ever was. (Fortunately for us IMHO).
4-The best economic performers in Europe are the least socialist. Normal unemployment in France is between 10 and 15 % with minorities much higher. Of course everyone does get weeks of summer vacation when nothing gets done.
5-Germany has a guild system that puts our system to shame and hides youth unemployment.

To say that the Eurpoeans modeled themselves on the U.S. after WW2 is like saying that an apple as modeled on an orange.

Butcher
What?!?

Butcher
I echo "Dana's" reaction.

Huh??

You ARE aware Dr. Sowell is a CONSERVATIVE, right? You REALLY think Dr. Sowell advocates dictatorship?

And did you mean to write "moot" instead of "mute"?

Your post is so full of contradictions, it makes me wonder if you are in some kind of substance-induced euphoria.

bakedbones,
you are so correct. I've no doubt that 'those in the hills' will respond with the spirit instilled in them from their predecessors. The problem currently is who to respond to, or against. The current crop of political miscreants is the worst in history (US), soon to be followed by a disaster unforseen and, I believe, ultimately unacceptable.

So, yes, I believe that the 'hill' people, and the 'plains' people, and the 'country' people will respond to protect the country from those who prefer the USofE to the USofA. I hope I'm around and can participate in a manner that would make my ancestors proud. My kids already are.

Pick on Hal Day II
Mr.Right, Primus54 and ulsterscot; Good mornin to you, dynamic trio.
Your attack against Hals last paragragh of his first post today. Maybe `CORRECT' and then it may be reading to much into it.
Hal, I read it several times and really had no idea as to what your trying to say! Really, your comment is very vague.
But back to you three, I noticed that none of you drew attention to his opening statement. So this i take you have no qualm with.
Some interesting facts about the Europe you three Use.
France in nearly as Communistic as Russia is. They actually have taken sides with them and have allowed them to maintain a Political party.
But the return to Privatized business is based on US economics.
Germany, Business plan again modelled on ours, but there Unions or trade Guilds, play a much more important role.
Now I know you three hate the very unions that gave you educations and livable wages. You'd hate German Unions, because they dictate who works in that trade, Not the CEO's. So no cheap labor. If you don't pay scale or have all the people needed, out you go. AKA Wal-Mart.

Hal Donahue Scribbles:
Two points: First, the Western World led by the US won the Cold War. It was the European nations that were willing to put their entire country and populations at risk by allowing and supplementing US forces. We could not have won the Cold War without firing a shot if it was not for our allies. The strength of the NATO alliance, just as of the US is the very diversity you oppose.

You ever hearof thing called MAD?

Savage99
Excellent post! You've said many of the things that were on my mind. The Liberal/Socialist fools that that look to Europe as a model. Are h*ll bent on destroying the best model of government in the world "ours." As you point out, it is being done mostly by attacking our young through a lack of true education. The Socialist pigs have turned our public schools into mere indoctrination centers that turn out nothing more than brain washed idiots that don't even know what Abstract Reasoning is. Let alone be able to use it.

HAL DONAHUE; and the other Liberals that post on TH. Are prime examples of the stupidity and ignorance these schools produce! It doesn't matter If the brilliant Dr. Thomas Sowell lays out the facts in such a way a child could understand. They are completely ignored in their pursuit of their Socialist/ Communist Utopia dream world!

Every evil form of Government
Has come out of Europe.
Dr Sowell writes:
In the course of the twentieth century, supposedly sophisticated Europeans managed to create some of the most monstrous forms of government on earth-- Communism, Fascism, Nazism--
----
ts:
And from the earlier times Europe gave the world Slavery, Colonization, Church over State, Imperialism.
Then three Wars here in America, besides all the Wars in Europe.

French and Indian War, the War of Independence and the War of 1812.

And some think those guys in Europe have anything worth following today? ha ha

They are now giving the world globalism, fiat paper money, 'diversity' that does not tolerate patriotism in America or Europe,global warming, and the worthless UN.

I see nothing in Europe but the same arrogant people who have brought more evil on mankind than all the nations of the world.
They are now and always will be enemies of the people.

HalD, do you also believe...
that American symbols need to be changed? Do you agree with his following statement?

According to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171, During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.

'As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides,' Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bomb s bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.'

BHO also recently unveiled his new and improved version of the Presidential Seal, only to turn around and remove it from his podium.

Please tell us in specifics, "What does he stand for and can he stand for anything without turning around and reversing himself."

Is it that he cannot read the American people or is it just a matter of bad timing, i.e. not enough have the wool pulled over their eyes yet?

Sowell now gives us a short history
`In the course of the twentieth century, supposedly sophisticated Europeans managed to create some of the most monstrous forms of government on earth-- Communism, Fascism, Nazism-- in peacetime, and to start the two World Wars, the bloodiest in all human history. In each of these wars, both the winners and the losers ended up far worse off than they were before these wars were started.'
Thomas, In 1860 several Southern states broke away from this Union, in a dispute over Policy. It lasted till 1865, some say but ask a Southerner, it continued on till the 1870's.
Those wars in Europe where fought over Ideologies and to the victor went the right to label the aggressor and evil. I am sure you will twist my words, so be it.
But to them, We are evil and the aggresor. So to understand your enemies you must think like them.


Butcher writes:
"I am sure you will twist my words, so be it."
-----

Who is the "you" in this sentence, Butcher?

Dr. Sowell???

Really, Butcher. Your comments are hard to follow.

"Tis better to be thought ignorant - than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

Final assault againts stupid............
Farmerswife; Great point you make, if Obama cannot accept the fact that we love our nation, no matter how dumb it is run. Then maybe he should go back to Chicago and run for alderman.
I will here the boo's and hisses here, I support McCain and believe he will be a good POTUS.
I have not supported this administration, because I knew, GWB was not capable of running this government with objectivity. He fails to see or ignores the big picture and its lasting consequences.
Enough short term money makeing for some and back to money making for us all.

Primus54 Open mouth
Them why do you try to say things that only make you look as inept as you are.
You really need to take advice from your self and leave the thinking to those who can,

make sense of this?
IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO LOOK AT WHAT EUROPE HAS TO OFFER MATERIALLY AND WHAT IT HAS TO OFFER INTELLECTUALLY AND THENinsofar as is possible, like good old fashined reasonable people using reason , logic and sense, pick and choose. nobady would say take it all. nobody should say forgt it all because of a lot of salt water. make choices and than act on those choices. for example the venereal rate in scandanavia is 60 times less than in the united states. why. its an admirable goal if what we have to do to get at the goal will work well in our system, and if so lets do it. if not lets not. what is so hard about this that it requires 3 full columns,.

Primus 54
You nailed It! Butcher, go back to making hamburger, writing is not your strong suit.

Goshawk, Savage99, great points!
Savage99, I see you have your old moniker back so nobody will confuse your gender again ;).

The last line sums up the stupidity of Hal D. and the other liberal trolls, "Are we now to blindly imitate those who have been so wrong, so often over the past hundred years?"

They are so stupid that they can't even see after all the evidence is in that they have been wrong. They try to twist the meaning of words to convince those of us that know better that they were simply misquoted or it was not what they meant. Anyone remember "it depends on what the meaning of is is." Perfect example of liberal lunacy!

Managed economy
Many Americans also ignore the failure of the USSR with its managed economy and copy the concept. They prohibit drilling, force taxpayers to supplement our Food For Oil Scandal (corn to ethanol), and want to punish speculators for the resulting problems--after raising taxes. Sound like a good Five Year Plan to you? http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

Butcher
I did not know how stupid you really were till I read this, from you:
" European Royalty and snobbish Auristocrats, which by the way rhymns with Democrat and not Republican."
Auristocrats rhymns with Democrat????
Auristo
Demo
Your very ignorant!

Europe leads to Eurabia
As usual Dr. Sowell is absolutely correct. This man is by far my 1st choice for president. Can you imagine that kind of true intelligence in the White House? We could get back on our feet within a single term.

Anyway I just wanted to add to Dr. Sowell's critique of Europe by mentioning "America Alone, the end of the world as we know it" by Mark Steyn. This book is the clearest description of where socialism and Political Correctness can lead you. Europe's nanny state policies are greatly responsible for the mess they are finding themselves in right now. Eurabia is nearly inevitable and here to stay. “America Alone” has a chance to survive as long as we get rid of this simplistic idiotic and suicidal Leftist ideology promoted by the likes of the Messiah of Change to fainting crowds of naïve ignorants.

SSGT:
You should learn the difference between "you're" and "your" before you call someone "ignorant".

Put another way, ...
...we should defer to 2,000 years of European barbarism? I think not.

Correcting an error
The correct name for the UN is the International Association of Dictators and Tyrants. We need to withdraw and start another organization with some serious requirements for membership. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

thanyou sedonaman
for sharing that tid bit of info for me! You're a numbnut! How is that? Oops, silly me, I meant to say you're a numnah. Ooops, double silly me! I really meant to say that you're what a numnah lays on, or just south of it. Thanks again for you're input. You know that practice makes perfect!

Butcher...
“I think Out sourcing foreign Policy is far better than getting rid of American Jobs…”

Except, perhaps, for those foreign policy jobs that would thereby be outsourced? And please take us through the thought process you underwent in concluding that American jobs would be better protected by a foreign policy being conducted according to foreign interests rather than our own.

Hey Hal Doofus
Why don't you send a personal e-mail to Dr. Sowell letting him know how wrong he is. When you receive his reply, please share it with us here at TH.

Hal Donalhue #7
60 years ago today was the beginning of the Berlin Airlift, with which the United States flew millions of tons of food and other supplies into Berlin so they'd have food and heat. This was an American effort.

Liberal government outsourced employers and jobs by taxing them out of the country.

If it hasn't alreday been noticed
then today has brought to light just how far to the left, especially HalD & the butch, have gone. The dumbacratic party isn't what it use to be and have all but lost any of it's credability. One can only imagine just what could happen IF BarryBarrack gets into the WH.

Royce&Roll
I echo your suggestion....Steyn's book, "America Alone" should be mandatory reading for all Americans, especially for liberals.

Hal, please pick up the book and actually learn the results of the policies you continually advocate. There are no pictures, and I'm sure a neighbor or conservative relative can help you with the "big words" and complex passages.

For Geminiguy (#41)
I actually can remember hearing about Drunken Teddy and others talking about "New Democrats" during 1996 election. For me (at the time, I was a Canadian on a temp visa), it was close to being a double-entendre--as there is a party of that name in Canada (which has never ruled Canada; it had some semblance of direction under its founding leader Tommy Douglas, but none since he "passed baton" to Ed Broadbent); unfortunately for Americans (many of whom are ignorant of their northern neighbour), the Dhimmicruds actually chose to emulate the NDP from then on.

Raymond: Butcher
Raymond how daring of you to ask a lefty to be logical by explaining his thought process. As long as you can sing Kumbaya in diverse company who cares about making any sense. Throw all cautions to the wind and bow before your Lord the Master of Change and Hope and everything should be fine, shouldn't it?

Off topic and just announced...
SCOTUS overturned DC gun ban!

Farrmer's Wife
YIPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Finally got something right?

Farmer's Wife
unfortunately, it was only a 5 to 4 decision.
We're going to have more battles in the future on this one!

sedonaman, I'm getting pretty darn good at this, no?

baked bones 1:22 am
.
..beautifully written if not wishful dreaming.
As others have pointed out, the "educationalists have nearly destroyed the patriotism of those under the age of 40. So where do we get all those young fearless warriors that make an enemy think twice and pay for his mistakes.??. God only knows. Maybe they are in very short supply. I like the concept of an all volunteer army. Are there enough volunteers left for a real war.??. How many were atracted by promises to pay for college or other slight of hands.??.

Thomas has hit another home run. Where are the other great black Americans such as Larry Elders and Thomas Sowell.??. Well they were educated before the group we now have. You want to do something for your coutry.??. Disappear some socialist mama's boys who are teaching everything except what they should teach and throwing away the country as part of the grand experiment. I say enough..... There is no worse enemy than the one inside the very walls you hope to defend...
.
.

butcher moniker is correct
The problem is that he butchers history, the English language and logic all in nearly incomprehensible paragraphs. Must be the liberal idea of multi-tasking. The foregoing, btw, is an ad hominem attack.

Time is too short to argue every point but you made the statement that unions have educated me and given me the opportunity to make a living wage. Wrong. My education began in earnest when I escaped the stranglehold unions have on education, even 40 years ago when I was in school. The NEA exists to serve teachers and promote their leftist political agenda. Educating children is the last thing they worry about and the results of their efforts amply illustrate that. As for the living wage, the worst paying job with the least opportunity for advancement I have ever had in my life was when I was a member of the carpeters and joiners unions, one of the family of the AFL-CIO. Labor unions are the bane of American manufacturing and the primary reason for manufacturing jobs leaving this country. There are actually more manufacturing jobs in this country than at any time in our history. That doesn't mean that jobs haven't left - they have. The ones that move overseas, however, are those union jobs with enormous overhead and legacy costs and mandated low productivity. Companies are more than happy to pay for productivity.

Please stick to the subject matter
I'm tired of reading through tons of garbage between Hal D & friends and their Conservative Advasarries bickering like little children. A sugestion to Conservatives the way to make Liberial TrollS go elsewhere is to "COMPLETELY IGNORE THEM" .

svpallava
I think it's sad that it takes someone that has lived in another country to see what is really going on here. I hope that you have found a nice, friendly and home here in the U.S. It's probably not as much of a big transition for you (as we are are neighbors & speak ENGLISH)). I have been to many other countries myself and enjoyed the people, food and sights, however, I would not give up my home here in the good ole USofA and the life and freedoms I'am blessed with. Sometimes it takes either the loss of those freedoms, or just to see how other people in other parts of the world live.

Excellent Post
Dr. Sowell another excellent Post by you . Thank You

Mr. Donahue is one
of those imitators that Dr. Sowell has been writing about. In my brief temporary visit as a newbie to Town Hall I have learned one thing. Mr. Donahue is the master of obfuscation. He knows in his heart that he'll never overcome the astuteness , intelligence and knowledge of the conservative posters here who deal only in facts and truth. Mr. Donahue knows he can't dazzle the posters with brilliance because he will never be able to achieve that grandiose goal as long as he lives. Instead he tries the old liberal tactic of baffling his detractors with bullsh** which he learned when he allegedly attended institutes of higher education. He reminds me of that phony ex professor Ward "the fake Indian" Churchill who was sh** canned from the University of Colorado last year. Mr. Donahue is the spitting image of Churchill and could be a clone.
Check out this website for the Churchill saga if you are interested in the similarities:

http://www.pirateballerina.com/index.php

To be continued

America Alone
I would like to echo the previous posters recommending this book. Hal fits the description of a wacked out liberal by his comments on diversity. He managed to cram the word into his post twice without it making any sense at all. Mark Steyn has artfully shown how adherence to the multi cultural diversity snobs coupled with socialist governments are turning Europe into an Islamic continent.

The numbers are already so staggering, there is virtually no way they can recover from the mess they have created. Before reading the book, I had no idea how bad it was. The Islamic population alone in France explains why France fought our efforts to remove Saddam and, will continue to fight any efforts to rein in radical Islamism. They are afraid of their own citizens and will be an Islamic country within twenty years.

One of the most interesting aspects of the book is how he shows that Muslims do not need to be an absolute majority of the population to achieve their aims. Already, women in Britain are choosing to wear Muslim dress in public simply to avoid targeting. Although they are not Muslim, they choose to blend in for safety. There is a mosque under construction in London next to the 80,000 seat Olympic stadium that seats 70,000 which is 67,000 more than the next largest church in England.

The time is already past to start thinking about new allies such as India and China against the coming hordes. By 2050, Europe will not even resemble the Europe of 1950. Our long time allies throughout our history are going to be Islamic states under sharia law.

Many will, no doubt, continue to want to emulate them even then.

Good Column!
Didn't we fight a couple of wars and bail Europe out on a couple of other wars so as not to be like them?

It seems Europe still hasn't learned their lessons, clear back to the Roman Empire, as they are back into the business of appeasing once again.

hitchhiker #54
At that time, the French will be hoping to come here to escape the muslims.

Butcher #26: Obama should go home to Eurabia.

Gemini Guy, Spavella
I fully agree with you guys. I also travelled the world over; worked and lived in China, Russia, Africa and South America - yes you guessed it I'm involved with the dirty oil business; Mea Culpa Mea Culpa.

My stay in China and Russia were at a time when communism was still predominant - not that it isn't anymore. The ones who best understand what we have here in America are the ones who have been denied such blessings as freedom and economic wealth.

I have several friends from the ex-USSR and no one is more anti left. They have lived through the euphoric introduction (smells like BO?) of this silly Utopian world to the catastrophic results of its execution. They can see the similarities with what our naive lefties are aiming at for us today although too ignorant to see that what they are going for is nothing new, it is as old as the world of politic and has been proven a failure every time it was tried but people who don't know history are liable to relive it.

We didn't imitate, we we did enjoy


We enjoyed 968 nights in 32 countries in Europe, Asia, and Africa - slept at least one night in 452 spots in over 396 towns, cities, and other locations.

That includes sleeping 605 nights in 406 different places in 28 European Countries in our various RVs, that we drove 87,000 miles in nine visits.

We enjoyed our visits to Europe, and other parts of the world, but our experience proved to us that, — — — —

It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there, is not a cliché, it's the truth.


Mr. Right (wing?)
"...Hal Donohue once again makes up his own facts. The Western World had nothing to do with winning the Cold War.

LMAO, LMAO yup and watch out for all those black helos.....

"Three individuals, Pope John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher, and Ronald Reagan, won the Cold War with very little support from their own constituencies, let alone any of the European elites."

Do you have any kind of education? How can you even say that?????

"...After WW II Europe modeled itself after the U.S. because it worked. Their current malaise is a result of their drifting away from conservatism."

Really???? You mean liberal USA the USA of FDR, Isenhower and JFK????

"The fixes they now seek is to become more conservative a la France, Italy, etc."

Their conservatives make Jesse Jackson look rightwing LOL


Sowell is out of his depth again
Like most conservatives he deals with unreal generalities. Europe is a place not a cause. Individual people can be partial causes, the joustling of lots of individual people can result in unforseen and uncontrolled consequences. But to assign causality to an abstract construct is a sign of a person who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Lolo1
"...It seems Europe still hasn't learned their lessons, clear back to the Roman Empire, as they are back into the business of appeasing once again. "

Oh stop the nonsense all Bush the torturer has done is appease Al Q and Obama. He leaves them alone and does nearly everything they want. Talk appeasement then talk Bush they are very similar

look at the armpits


Don’t mean this to be a duplicate, just two examples of the same idea.

In 1985 while spending the night in a camp ground in Buna, Yugoslavia, the lady next door, a member of the Leftist Labor Party in England, said she had recently visited Hunter College in New York City, and found that everyone there hated President Reagan, and that he would soon be impeached.

I told her, “Going to a college in New York City to learn about the political health of the US, is like going to a Doctor for a physical exam, and he only looks at your armpits!” And I was being polite when I said “armpits.”
=========

My letter to the editor, printed in the LA Times in 1992, in response to an article by a Mr. Dennis. I was surprised they printed it.
------------

Mr. Dennis said he conducted 100 interviews with “… leaders, journalists, intellectuals and ordinary citizens,…” and determined that the US did not win the Cold War. I wonder if he talked to more than one “citizen.”

I have talked to far more than 100 ordinary citizens during my trips (both before and after the Cold War) in Yugoslavia, former East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and most other European countries, and I can assure you that they were almost unanimous in giving credit to the US, and to Presidents Reagan and Bush, for the return of freedom to Eastern Europe.

It proves again that speaking to journalists and intellectuals to learn about the political health of a country, is like going to a Doctor for a physical exam, and he only looks at your armpits!

Mr. Donahue
Continued....

The Blackbird asked Mr. Donahue for more specifics since his BIO did not contain enough definitive information to support his contention that he is a man of truth and the TH posters are lying about him.
For the record here again is the list of questions that the Blackbird asked Mr. Donahue to elaborate on:

For example what Air Force units did you serve in? Squadrons, Wings, etc? When did you serve and and where (bases)? Were you a flying status officer or an administrative type? If you were a pilot what type of aircraft were you qualified to fly? Did you receive any medals for valor? I'm not asking you to breach classified information to answer.

You mentioned you were a vice president for several energy companies. Could you elaborate by listing their names and when you served in that capacity?

What are the names of the corporations and not-for-profit organizations where you served on the board of directors and when did you serve?

When did you attend Colgate and Central Michigan Universities and when did you graduate?

Mr. Donahue in his usual obfuscating manner would not answer the questions. He said his BIO was not supposed to be a resume and that he was not looking for a job.
At this juncture the Blackbird is wondering what Mr. Donahue is trying to hide. Perhaps he is gravely concerned that a resourceful TH blogger with research experience and inside sources will reveal an ugly truth about him that would destroy his credibility if he ever had any. The jury has returned its verdict Mr. Donahue and you are everything the TH bloggers say about you and then some. Have a great day.

Hitchhiker
"...The time is already past to start thinking about new allies such as India and China against the coming hordes. By 2050, Europe will not even resemble the Europe of 1950. Our long time allies throughout our history are going to be Islamic states under sharia law."

Here we go again selling nothing but fear itself. Look if you fearful and timid conservatives are that frightened to compete openly with other beliefs and societies then perhaps your world is indeed over. Us moderates and liberals do beieve in competition and a certain amount of creative choas

Looking to Europe
for important answers to world problems is like reading Flaubert's "Madam Bovary" for advice on committing suicide.

The Blackbird
"...The jury has returned its verdict Mr. Donahue and you are everything the TH bloggers say about you and then some. Have a great day. "

LMAO and off in a big pout. I love the way you conservatives want one set of rules for you and another for everyone else LMAO

Hal:
SFTU and take your bullsh1t assertions which you state as fact, and go back to your moonbat friends at HuffPuke.

Bart,
I agree, anytime spent on the likes of Donahue the passed over is time misused. He simply is a waste of good air from the time he tries to sober up in the AM to the time he figures it's a lost cause at Noon. (Let's see, how does it go? Oh, yeah. LMAO, LOL, ROTFLMAO, etc.)

Punkahue
DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
Sniper fire all around!!!!

Oops, must have been a dream!

Liar liar, pants on fire! Hand caught in the cookie jar again, pukeface!
Morons, breed morons.

Hal:
Score one for those bitter gun-toting religious fanatics ROTFLMFAO

My Conclusion
Liberals on here constantly whine about conservatism. Yet they can't provide evidence of it failing, not even using history of any country in the world. Even the Romans didn't fall because of their republic, they fell because they couldn't handle the socialism falling on them.

Since they can't bring any evidence to the table, it is my conclusion that conservatism is the only ideology that works for government. If only hal could back up his statements with facts. tis tis

OBAMA COMPETENCE
TO: HAL DONOHUE:

I understand you are an Air Force Officer supporting Barack "Barry" Hussain bin 'BoomBox (nee: Obama). I support and second your right to endorse this candidate. When Lumberjack asked for substance you reverted to "campaigns" and "has worked hard"

My opinion: nothing so stated is substantive ; ergo, by "campaigns" is this a job function where the accountability is constant and where there is a boss who can fire - axe - Obama or has Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoyToy (nee: Obama) been skating through this real life reality free from common people legitimate scrutiny?

Remember that morsel of food at the end of your fork. I believe gas then was less than $4/gal while today prices are rising so fast that only BigMoneyCrats can afford automobile transportation. Diesel pricing is going through the roof and the only thing the O'BoomBox can offer is more taxes (transfer costs to the consumer) on petroleum producers as if his mixed bag undergraduate education at Columbia and his Harvard Law Degree give him any practicle knowledge on petroleum exploration and geology. PowerCrats in their stretch limousines glee with fewer traffic jams and congestion because fewer common people like me can afford filling the tank. Truly "hard working" people are harder off because of the Democrat Party and their fraudulent Candidate.

AGAIN: Name one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox (nee: Obama)?

So far you Hal Donohue have failed in this basic mission! Instead of being pedantic be precise
Giving Barack “Barry” Hussain bin O’BoyToy (nee: Obama) a license would you feel safer if it was a chauffeur license so he could drive a cab or a pilots license so he could fly a plane; ergo, fly you around with your Air Force Officer’s rank?

American Euro-snobs wrong
This is why I love Dr. Sowell:

"After both World Wars, the United States had to step in to save millions of people in Europe from starving amid the wreckage and rubble that their wars had created. These do not seem like people whose sophistication we should defer to."

Precise and brilliant at once.

It is indeed bizarre that America's Euro-snobs seek to imitate Europe's failures. Ironically, much of Europe is moving to adopt our free market model even as American liberals insist on adopting the worst aspects of Europe's socialist model. Some people are incapable of interpreting history.

Lumberjack7392
"...Hal:
SFTU and take your bullsh1t assertions which you state as fact, and go back to your moonbat friends at HuffPuke. "

Oh dear me.. LMAO grow up little guy

CKHustler
"...Since they can't bring any evidence to the table, it is my conclusion that conservatism is the only ideology that works for government. If only hal could back up his statements with facts. tis tis "

LMAO first point you do not represent conservatism you represent EXTREME conservatism a whole different creature. I mean as spoken now you would run Ronnie Reagan out as a RINO. Please do realise you represent dsyfunctional. You had total control of the government and literally damaged the country. Watch the 08 election you are being repudiated. Heck you are so damaged you could not even get an extreme conservative elected to run for president in your own stolen Republican Party. There is a FACT for you. OVER

Good to see
The liberals appear to agree with me on conservatism working under a republic government.

Hey Lumberjack
Listen to the little girly boy, Mr Donahue, calling you a little guy. Pretty humorous wouldn't you say?

Fact?
Where? I don't see any? Come on hal, take your best shot at it!

Again
Which conservative policies were put into place recently? I can think of two, the tax breaks. So to prove we were running the country, its going to take more FACTS than that one Hal.

Oboma VS USMC Training #1
I am a Former (drafted ) ReCon Marine( mos 03 0321 ) who did two tours in Nam and served 6 years in the USMC winning the Bronze star and have two PH's unfortunately .
First off you had to graduate in the top 5 % of your class from Paris Island or Q-CO just to try to be a ReCon Marine . You had to Volunteer .
It goes far beyond having a very high IQ , Physical and quick response Mental abilities ... Believe me !
There is no such thing as" Maturing" on the Job training to be a ReCon Marine , Navy Seal or Army Special Forces . If you fail one class your done and out ! Sometimes you get a second try but that is it !
It took Me 26 Months of brutal training in all areas from going days without food or sleep , and yes being WATER BOARDED not Unique .
Knife Fighting , Rifle (M3A1 ) and Pistol (9 mm) training having to shoot expert under great due-rest .
then Army Jump School at Ft Bragg , Seal Team 21 School at Little Creek VA , Scuba school 1-2 Key West Fla , Rubber Boat and Submarine training in the Med. Quick Kill school at Q-CO , Cold weather training in Pickle Meadows Calif. , Mountain Repel school in Malta , Demolition school 1-2 in NC , Jungle Warfare and Ambush training in the Dismal swamp , Escape and Evasion , Pric 23 (radio ) . Leaning how to call in Air Strikes .

Oboma VS USMC Training #2
I could go on and on Like Running BLINDLY in the Dead of Night or sitting in Ice Water for 20 minutes and then having to perform perfectly in my thinking , Physical movement and pin point shooting .
But why did the USMC do this to all of us even before we went to Nam ?
Because many lives of fellow Marines and Battalions of Marines and Army CO.s relied on us and their lives were at stake . Ours lives as well always behind enemy lines .
Oboma is Two years on the Job and not even a brief History of Combat under fire are highly questionable . Hardily the background and training to be President of the most powerful Nation ever on this Earth . Does the USMC have far Common sense and Smarter than the media Liberals or Oboma and his Minions .... Hell Yes !

Mr. Donahue your
reply # 66 is a typical example of your ability to obfuscate rather than respond to my questions. You must really be afraid that you will be "outed" if you do. You are to be pitied. Time for your daily "happy hour".

REILLY ACE OF SPIES
"...When Lumberjack asked for substance you reverted to "campaigns" and "has worked hard"

My opinion: nothing so stated is substantive ; ergo, by "campaigns" is this a job function where the accountability is constant and where there is a boss who can fire - axe - Obama or has Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoyToy (nee: Obama) been skating through this real life reality free from common people legitimate scrutiny?"

Really getting reelected over and over doesn't matter? The voters are not a boss? Why do you make fun of the man name? Is that the only substantive argument you can make against Senator Obama?

"Remember that morsel of food at the end of your fork. I believe gas then was less than $4/gal while today prices are rising so fast that only BigMoneyCrats can afford automobile transportation. "

And this is a direct ressult of onservative governance: run away spending, war of choice, lack of government oversight, instability in the ME and other oil producing areas, runaway domestic oil consumption... shall I go on and on this is a conservative caused penality

"Diesel pricing is going through the roof and the only thing the ... mixed bag undergraduate education at Columbia and his Harvard Law Degree give him any practicle knowledge on petroleum exploration and geology. "

Oh you are now anti education too. People knowing the industry are there too.

"PowerCrats in their stretch limousines glee with fewer traffic jams and congestion because fewer common people like me can afford filling the tank."

BUT this is exactly what you wanted!!! Unfettered industry with no oversight or restrictions. By voting conservative you asked to become a serf


ReCon-USMC
"Reply # 4
Date: Jun 26, 2008 - 2:34 PM EST Oboma VS "

Ahhn gee and look now you are reduced to being terrified of a handful of criminal terrorists. I guess you were a man once. What have you done since?

The Blackbird
"Hal" once claimed that Abraham Lincoln opposed the Black Hawk War and that Teddy Roosevelt opposed American involvement in World War I. After he was proven wrong on both counts and laughed out of TH, he began denying that he ever made any such claim. Facts clearly mean nothing to him.

Conservate
Again, hal makes more replies without any facts. You would think that a person who wanted to come online to try and prove his points, would at least know them himself! haha

I have yet to see one conservative policy you claim ruined us.

The Blackbird
"reply # 66 is a typical example of your ability to obfuscate rather than respond to my questions. You must really be afraid that you will be "outed" if you do. You are to be pitied. Time for your daily "happy hour"."

LMAO namecall away little bird. I wish happy hour but I have to do some work - hope to be back later

Hey Reilly
See what I mean? Mr. Donahue cleverly(in his own mind) tries to belittle your comments by breaking them down and then obfuscating them with his usual meaning less drivel. I'm a newbie (here temporarily) and it didn't take me long to see that Mr. Donahue is an individual incapable of posting any dialogue (SP) with substance. He is to be pitied.

and he runs
I shoulda saw that one coming. He comes on...whines about conservatism being our downfall...provides a total of zero examples of why and then runs. Anyone else see that coming? I should start taking bets on him. lol

Mr. Donahue There you
Go again. Slinking off with you tail between your legs when the going gets tough. Cheers!!!

Punkahue
vomits:
"BUT this is exactly what you wanted!!! Unfettered industry with no oversight or restrictions. By voting conservative you asked to become a serf"

Yep there you have it folks, Socialism at its finest! Nice job Punkahue. Thanks for sharing your worldly views to us, dirtbag!

Hal:
You are still a Retired, Passed Over, REMF, Sad Sack, Garritrooper, Southern Hating Bigot, Murtha As$ Kissing, Liberal Moonbat, Alleged Oil Company VP, Citer Of His Own Articles as Proof, Self Important, Lard as$ed, Democratic Party Fanatic. BTW, you are so little you could walk under a closed door .

Punkahue
insults another Marine:
"I guess you were a man once. What have you done since?"

Hey BIG MAN, any time you wanna back those words up, just let me know. But alas, my dreams will never come to pass with a yellow striper like you. Your Pathetic


SSGT
A good day to ye!

HAL D. writes :

ReCon-USMC


Ahhn gee and look now you are reduced to being terrified of a handful of criminal terrorists. I guess you were a man once. What have you done since?


I am afraid of no one or Earth Hal !
I suspected a far lefty like you would ask that question .
After my years in the USMC .WITH NO HELP ! DEAD BROKE !
I could not find a Job .No Liberal Firm wanted to hire a Professional Killer . They laughed at my Job qualification so I was a Bouncer while I looked for a Job ..any job .
So I started at the very Bottom of the Furniture Ind, and slowly moved because of my (background) to being President of Sealy (Posturepedic ) of Canada in Toronto Furniture Div.That's right SEALY !
Retiring in 1992 . While I ran Sealy I was well known Nationally recognized as a top Fashion sofa designer and fabric colorist and I am not GAY !
If your from PA , I sold John Wannamakers , Straw Bridge and Clothiers in Phila and Joseph Horn and Hohn in Pittsburgh and John Wolf in Altoona Millions to name a few major great chain accounts in PA . I sold 37 of the top 50 accounts in America .
I live on my awesome estate in race horse country of VA .. Looking at my Bass pond on the front lawn while I type you this email .
AMERICA IS GREAT FOR CONSERVATIVE THINKERS HAL !


Sowell's article
Summary:
Appeasement of enemies never works to one's benefit in the long run; it only allows them more time to conquer you.
What works is preparedness, preparedness, preparedness.
Old JIM

The Secret Logic of the Illogical Left..
With all due respect to Dr. Sowell, his flawless logic is wasted on the Left. That’s because those who are leading the movement to reinvent the U.S. into the image of Europe are not doing so for logical reasons, or even for reasons that they are willing to admit to. Ultimately their goal is to put themselves in power. It’s better for them if the country is weaker and less economically stable because this makes people more willing to cede control to the government and to look to the government for solutions to their woes. That’s the real reason they want to be like Europe and it’s the only reason that makes any sense.

The left-wing posters here at TH don’t know any of this, so they are at a loss as to how to debate this issue. You see, they are the Followers: the rebellious teenagers (mentally speaking) motivated by their desire to be anti-establishment, and those who like the idea of the nanny state because they just want to be taken care of. These folks are easy to spot on TH debates because they try and defend the agenda of the Left (such as wanting to emulate Europe) while having no logical basis to do so. Thus their commentary is usually a puzzling jumble of non-sequitur statements and quibbling over any detail that will help them avoid real debate.

I almost feel sorry for them (NOT!).

Ken


Location: VA

Reply # 2
Date: Jun 26, 2008 - 2:43 PM

Why do you keep repeating that lie?

Mr. Donahue just a
friendly piece of advice. Be careful what you accuse Marine Recon of. All United States Marines are bad motorcycles, but Marine Recon are the baddest. I recently read a post from a dude named willibeax who keeps accusing you of an incident at Sumpter. If you were afraid of the Southern pilot who was going to rearrange your facial features and you ran crying to the Base Commander you better think twice. Not only will you have to visit your orthodontist for extensive dental work but a visit to your proctologist will be necessary to remove the Marines brogan out of your butt. Tough talk? Cheers

CKHustler
"...I have yet to see one conservative policy you claim ruined us. "

Not paying for Bush's Iraq War

Hal
"Why do you keep repeating that lie?"

Because it's not a lie. Why do you keep denying the truth?

SSGT
"BUT this is exactly what you wanted!!! Unfettered industry with no oversight or restrictions. By voting conservative you asked to become a serf"

Yep there you have it folks, Socialism at its finest! Nice job Punkahue. Thanks for sharing your worldly views to us, dirtbag!"

But you agree then????

Hal
Not paying? Tell me what policy is attributed to that...if in fact the war is being run without payment. lol

ReCon-USMC
"...I am afraid of no one or Earth Hal !"

Then why are you supporting all this crazy whining and the Islamofascist whatevers are taking over the world nonsense? The current version of conservatism is based uponm fear and the sky is falling not hard work and results

"I suspected a far lefty like you would ask that question....I live on my awesome estate in race horse country of VA .. Looking at my Bass pond on the front lawn while I type you this email . "

Do you run a vineyard too per chance? Although I suspect Archie is dead now. I heard your tale before but never hurts to ask again. You a neighbor of my buddy Rick Santorum?

"AMERICA IS GREAT FOR CONSERVATIVE THINKERS HAL !"

Only if they work for it and many do not. You are fully retired? That drives me crazy every time I try it LOL

Hal isn't worth the time...
By even responding to his uninformed posts, you are making him feel as if he has accomplished an incredible task! Liberals NEVER back up their statements when they post contradictory comments on conservative websites - whether it be TH, Lucianne, or the others. That is because, for Liberals, the goal isn't to actually inform others of opposing views of new facts, or even to persuade others to their point of view -- For those Liberals, the point is merely to ruffle the feathers of Conservatives. Now that Hal thinks that he has accomplished that task, he (in his mind) can go and brag to his Liberal buddies about all that he accomplished for the Left Wing casue.

The Blackbird
"...I recently read a post from a dude named willibeax who keeps accusing you of an incident at Sumpter. If you were afraid of the Southern pilot who was going to rearrange your facial features and you ran crying to the Base Commander you better think twice. "

LMAO little willie lies a lot. Any problems I had were caused by not running especially to any base commander. LMAO any AF guy will tell you the base commander isn't usually the power on a base LOL

"Not only will you have to visit your orthodontist for extensive dental work but a visit to your proctologist will be necessary to remove the Marines brogan out of your butt. Tough talk? Cheers "

Threats WOW LOL look if anyone wants to beat up on sick old Hal feel free -- takes a lot of courage LOL

Christine
I know. Which is why instead of responding, I am just sending the ball back into his court with a challenge. I have long stopped taking him seriously.

ReCon Devil Dog
Hey, this retired HospCorpsman would sure like to a rod into that pond ya got....what do like to drink¿

Christine
"..Hal isn't worth the time...
By even responding to his uninformed posts, you are making him feel as if he has accomplished an incredible task!"

you are so right I would much rather post and go rather than all this back and forth LOL

Hal
So I guess you give up? It seems so as you cannot respond with one fact or policy can you. I was expecting better you know.

CKHustler
CKHustler
"...Date: Jun 26, 2008 - 4:38 PM EST Christine
I know. Which is why instead of responding, I am just sending the ball back into his court with a challenge. I have long stopped taking him seriously."

" CKHustler
Location: MN

Reply # 1
Date: Jun 26, 2008 - 4:50 PM EST Subject: Hal
So I guess you give up? It seems so as you cannot respond with one fact or policy can you. I was expecting better you know. "

Certainly sounds like you gave up LOL. Also, the deficit for Bush's Iraq war feed the oil price increase as well as the housing bubble. But that is ok I understand how you folks are fact adverse

To Germinguy

Subject: ReCon Devil Dog
Hey, this retired HospCorpsman would sure like to a rod into that pond ya got....what do like to drink¿

Why Most anything Adult Cool beverage Germinguy .
HospCorpsman .......Over here !
As You know well , We Marines and especially ReCon greatly admire Corspman .
In fact our Corpsman even went through all of the ReCon Training even when he didn't have too .He even wore our Uniform .
I did 11 Months in the Portsmouth Navel hosp.
Yes I use too hang around VA Beech as well .
Over and out .....Its cold Beer time !
Sam E

Bush's war?
Um...vote was 77-23...sounds like that was bipartisan...you fail.

I still haven't heard of one policy Hal...its looking pretty grave for you.

COLD WAR COSMETICS
There is another angle relative to the demise of communism in Bolshevia. Story has it that the Kirov Ballet visited NYC back then and that all the female dancers were corralled confining the movements of these - can I say it - beauties along corridors guarded by KGB Goons. Albeit, the Pope, the President, and the Prime Minister had much contribution, I conject that so did Estee Lauder, Revlon, Maybelline because these girls wanted best-o-best cosmetics and the colored paste factories from Lenin-Stalin-Kruszzzzzev and the rest of the Commie Ugs just didn't do it.
HURRAH FOR RUSSIAN WOMAN - the Wimbelton tennis player Anna Spanatova wins wins wins.

*** FREEDOM DEFEATED COMMUNIST NEUROSIS! ***

CKHustler
"...Date: Jun 26, 2008 - 5:32 PM EST Bush's war?
Um...vote was 77-23...sounds like that was bipartisan...you fail."

LMAO whatever you say guy...ask the American people whose war it was - they have no doubt but that is OK we understand being an extreme conservative means never having to say you are sorry LOL

Mr. Donahue! So little willie
lies a lot. If you answer my question about your military service, I might be able to agree with you. Until you do it's your word against his and your habit of obfuscating, ducking the issue, whining about folks wanting to beat up on poor old sick Hal is positively nauseating. You will no credibility until you show you are not afraid to answer my questions. If you are so afraid of getting beat up like you were when you ran to the Base Commander, you just might want to soften your insults.

The Blackbird
"...If you are so afraid of getting beat up like you were when you ran to the Base Commander, you just might want to soften your insults. "

LMAO bring it on LOL. Look people have been trying to kill me for years if someone wants to beat me up that sounds better LOL. Hey I may be limp and lame at this point but did you ever see that mouse gesturing at the eagle? If recon marine is who he says he is, he understands violence only works in a given situation and other skills are needed in different situations. Only psuedo "tough guys" like SSGT and little willie threaten to "beat you up". In my day I did my share of that and guess what I never threatened first LOL

Hal The enemy Collaborator.
What makes you any better that those who conspired with Communists to cause America to be defeated in Vietnam?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=231BFFE 7-3576-42E3-8584-6DAF070CED2F

Failure to answer this question labels you an Enemy Collaborator.
If you wanted to help defeat America and cause us to loose the Iraq war just like Vietnam;
What else would you do that you are not doing right now?
As the Progressive you are RIGHT NOW, not assuming other form or hypothetical pretense.
Can you think of anything you have not done already?

Mr. Donahue There you
go again. Still obfuscating. I'm not interested in your experiences when you yourself had to act tough. Unfortunately that happens to all of us. You conveniently dropped your comment that little willi lies. Just answer the questions about your military service and maybe we can have some meaning full dialog. I doubt it's going to happen because as a lurker, I was able to observe your comments. Every time you were backed up into a corner, you either obfuscated or cut and run.

SamE....ReconUSMC
Roger that. Although I wasn't assigned to the "grunts", I did do some field training @ Lajune, and have several friends that were FMS. I don't know how long you have been around TH, but several months ago, I finally decided, enuff is enuff. I just had to start posting. I guess I was quite naive in thinking that, yes this is our society & that we all had our opinions, like & dislikes. However, when I started reading some the left's trolls, and Soros/MoveOn.org trolls here, I was rudley awakened. It is absolutly sad that there are really so many of the "kool aid drinkers" out there. I had ASSumed that the old hippie factions....and their off spring, may have finally gotten the BIGG picture & would come around to at least love the country that they use to bash all the time. At least give the U.S. some credit. I try, from time to time, to come here & see what the columists have to say, if time permitting, attempt to post my opinions as well. Gotta run, TTYL, SemperFi.

MyOpine
"...What makes you any better that those who conspired with Communists to cause America to be defeated in Vietnam?"

America "lost" the Vietnam battle but won the Cold War. The Vietnam debacle was caused by government lies to the people; the people lost their faith in our leaders - that is why we "lost". All the extreme conservative whining is just that.

Hal
Are you still cowering away from facts? Seems so...really, I had higher hopes for you.

OFFICERS
Air Force Officer Donohue I do - without being patronizing - honor your service in the military.

That said, I have scoured your numerous remarks looking for something substantive relative to your support for Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox (nee: Obama) and besides Anger nothing appears to be the case.

I have been seeking that "one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to the O'BoyToy.

On another blog I proffered the word "genereous"; ergo, he's generous with OPM -Other Peoples' Money.

QUESTIONS;
Did you vote for Carter?
Did you vote for Dukakis?
Did you vote for Clinton?
Did you vote for Gore?
Did you vote for Kerry?

Paraphrasiny Ulysses S. Grant, "I have a lot of officers in my ranks, most of whom I don't use!

"Hal Donahue" Contest
I've got an idea.

Remember the contest whereby you have to guess the number of jelly beans in a glass jar?

Just for fun, we ought to consider a contest to guess the number of times Hal Donahue uses "LMAO" & "LOL" in a single column.

In the case of a tie, extra credit goes to who guesses how many times he writes, "Bush the torturer."

See Hal? Maybe your presence at TH could serve some useful purpose after all.

Primus 54 I think
you need to include the number of times Mr. Donahue obfuscates.

Primus54
"""Hal Donahue" Contest ""

Here's an idea, we turn it into a drinking game and 1/2 way down the thread we'll all be as drunk as he is, then maybe hell make sense.

oh wait, I don't think I could Get that drunk.

Hal The Communist LIAR!
You lie and state the Vietnam war was lost because our Government lied.

The war was lost because of lies but they were lies told to our Senate by John Kerry!
Communist traitors like this are the liars!
http://www.kerrystreason.com/index.html

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/john-kerry-gained-fame-t hanks-to-phony-soldiers

And Murtha is follwing Kerry's footsteps.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=5509FEE E-FCFE-4926-8C62-AB8EA4B124FB

And how many posts have you devoted to LIES about our troops committing attrocities?

You are a cowardly enemy collaborator, just like Kerry, your role model Kerry.http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/755pdotl.asp?pg=1

I have CAUGHT you lying about being an NRA member and being in Law Enforcement.
I will take Willi's word above your's.

REILLY ACE OF SPIES
"That said, I have scoured your numerous remarks looking for something substantive... Obama) and besides Anger nothing appears to be the case."

No anger at all My issue is competency

"I have been seeking that "one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to the ...."

LOL How about he simply is not Bush or McCain? That will be enough for most Americans

"QUESTIONS;
Did you vote for Carter?
Nope
"Did you vote for Dukakis?"
No
"Did you vote for Clinton?"
yes
"Did you vote for Gore?"
yes and worked for him
"Did you vote for Kerry?"
yes and worked for him

"Paraphrasiny Ulysses S. Grant, "I have a lot of officers in my ranks, most of whom I don't use!"

How about Frederick the Great saying the most dangerous officers are those who are ambitious and stupid - kill them. The description fits the latest version of conservatism but I do not say kill them just let them go back to their bunkers and "be safe"

ah Hal
Still again, cowering from facts. Personally I like the obfuscating contest. It wouldn't give him something to shoot for as HE thinks he gives us facts!!! Ain't he the best! lol

Too much "Projection", Hal
You seem to be stuck on the words, "competency" and referring to conservatives who are "afraid" and should return to their "bunkers" - and a host of variations.

In fact, you do it so often that I wonder if your military career was fraught with criticisms of your "competency", and if you deep down know that you served in relatively "safe" jobs because you feared being at the pointy end - unlike many of our fine, front-line Marines who post here.

I believe the therapists call that "projection".

CKHustler
HalD is simply trying to conceal his anger over loosing with irrelevant trivia.

Democrats have been caught in the act of creating another crisis that harms Americans.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/top_10_reasons_to_bl ame_democr_1.html

And this is why they did it!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/high_gas_prices_and_ the_marxis.html

Primus54
"..You seem to be stuck on the words, "competency" and referring to conservatives who are "afraid" and should return to their "bunkers" - and a host of variations."

Oh I do because they are perfect descriptors

"In fact, you do it so often that I wonder if your military career was fraught...you feared being at the pointy end - unlike many of our fine, front-line Marines who post here."

LMAO nice try LOL I love it LOL, LOL

Primus54
Lumberjack thinks Hal is a "REMF Garritrooper"

Hal told me a lie that gives me the impression Lumberjack is right.

Hal once told me, (1st version), that both Israeli & Palestinian soldiers, (Plural), broke down under combat stress and came to cry in his arms.

When I called him on it;
He revised this to one Israeli soldier in his second version.

This gives me the impression Hal has never been close enough to any major combat area to know how men react under Combat Fatigue.

They don't line up to cry in someone's arms.
They retreat into their own minds and shut everyone out!
I saw 3 cases in WW2. They all did different things but they all shut everyone out!

One was standing near a bulkhead when an AP round slammed through so close it sprayed paint chips from the bulkhead in his face.
He did not even flinch!
He just kept laughing at a comic book.

Ultimate Threat Misread
May I borrow Tom's words and remind the free world:

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, many Western intellectuals once again misread the threat of another totalitarian dictatorship-- in this case, Communist China.

Masquerading as a meek animal and speaking deceitfully as the ancient serpent, the communist regime corrupt the thoughts and deeds of all those who want to trade with "China".

If you want more information and facts about Communist China, visit the websites of china-e-lobby and Epoch Times for the "9 Commentaries".

If you believe the Bible, it was prophesied in Revelation 13:11-18.

"Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon...no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast ..."(right hand = deeds, forehead = thoughts)






China
Charles #134... right on, these guys are definately the enemy. Chicoms are Communists, just more sophisticated than the Koobahns or North Koreans... I wouldn't trade with them at all.

Robert
Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame - it will all be gone tomorrow.

"LOL"

Charles & WestTexan
Wonder if Bush normalizing relations with N. Korea has anything to do with China?

China regards Koreans as an inferior race.
Koreans are not overly fond of Chinese either.

I have to agree with Bart, above.
I've only been on-line & with time on my hands for a couple months & admittedly came to Townhall with higher expectations regarding 'Comments' than I mostly see on display. It didn't take long to figure out which 'trolls' to scroll past, nor to learn that salient points are usually added to the 'thread' by people addressing the subject at hand or the author of the piece rather than another 'poster.'

I know... Freedom of Speech, blah, blah, blah.

Don't get why anyone responds to rude little bullies & nincompoops. Attention is what they thrive on, just like in third grade... except here you can't smack 'em, and they bank of that fact.

Beautiful column above. Garbage below, beginning with #7.

DEMOCRAT
Air Force Officer Donohue you are a Democrat.

Nothing wrong with being a Democrat but the associations concerns me. I find it difficult raising my hand with the likes of Sean Penn, Brian de Palma, Barbara Streisand, John Kerry (know true he is not a Roman Catholic - St Paul’s School, NH is High Anglican CoE), Al Gore (Woodhole Oceanographic refutes GW-CC). Born in Chicago (CUBBIES) we were not sure if Al Capone' was a Democrat but knew Tony “Big Tuna” Accardo was for sure (West Side Block).

Boston Time (Go Red Sox) I was at the Parker House Hotel (Dem Party days in Mass) the night Kerry was elected Lt Gov under Dukakis. His behavior there was very odd - may have been on something. MaryJo Kopeckne was just 28 when the other Senator killed her.

New York, the supercilious female Huffington Blog woman tools around NYC alone in the back seat of a stretch black limousine telling the rest of us Plebs ”If you can’t afford the gas – Get off the road!” HypoCrat

My Democratic Friends work and want nothing from nobody accept good jobs at good pay and a safe place to live. With the O’BoyToy the word “safe” concerns me here in Ground Zero

I will make this easy for you. Just complete the sentence.

***** Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox (nee: Obama) is ________________________.
Dissertation not necessary - one word will do!


Liberal mentality
Liberals have the mentality of "OJ Jurists".

I look at the sick Leftist comments

I look at the Sick leftist comments from Oboma's supporters proving they know nothing about basic Economics. Comon sense , reality .OBOMA IS ABOUT THEORY NOT FACTS !
But of course Most Colleges teach the 'Values of Socialism/Marxism hence the OUT RIGHT HATE OF CAPITALISM !
Oboma is on that Team and Mind Set sadly as well .
First : Supply and Demand is the basics of Capitalism . Example you ask all you Computer Geeks and Liberals will understand this simple fact .... Hopefully
A Computer 30 years was as big as a house and cost 3 -5 Million Dollars and was only sold by IBM too Huge Corporations .
Today a computer cost $ 399.00 is a 10000000 times more powerful than that IBM Computer of 25 years ago .
Productivity in America is the greatest on Earth . MEANING THE MORE PRODUCTIVITY WE HAVE THE LOWER THE COST AND MORE MONEY ALL AMERICANS GET .
Now the Investment Tax Credit : Let's say Your Mom and Dad or You and a Friend own a small Co. what the Investment Tax does is ''ALLOW '' You to grow your own CO. hiring others thus making all Business's and Families stronger in America . America's unemployment is 4.5 % EUROPE is 11.9 % .
Capitalism is based on rolling profitable dollars over and over in our Economy . Mother Russia and China found out that when the State or Collective controls Profits >SUPPLY AND DEMAND there is no output .
Example you ask .
FARMERS IN AMERICA PRODUCED 88 % MORE THAN DID RUSSIA AND CHINA IN THE LAST 90 YEARS YET RUSSIA HAD 71 % MORE AVAILABLE FARM LAND .
OBOMA IS A DEEP KNIFE TO OUR FRAGILE ECONOMY LESS MONEY FOR HIS BELOVED WELFARE PROGRAMS SINCE PROFITS CREATE ''TAXES " !

MyOpine & WestTexan
MyOpine asked: Wonder if Bush normalizing relations with N. Korea has anything to do with China?

Here is the answer by D.J. McGuire at
http://china-e-lobby.blogspot.com/

June 26, 2008 "Making matters worse, this is all based on information that Kim Jong-il sent not to the United States, but to Communist China (BBC and Washington Times). It is an appalling end to a weak policy from the President."

June 27, 2008 "We are now discovering that in addition to getting no information on the Stainists' uranium enrichment plans, the Administration is also empty-handed on the Stalinists' actual nuclear arsenal (Fox News via The Write Side of My Brain):

One item that won’t make the declaration, which the White House says is due Thursday, will be North Korea’s nuclear bombs. The omission means the world will have to wait for an answer to the question at the heart of the nearly six-year-old standoff: Is the North ready to give up its nuclear weapons?


So, now we know that Communist China's de facto colony will be able to keep its nuclear arms stockpile - and keep it secret - and still have the Bush Administration push to have it removed from the list of terror sponsors (Washington Times), all because they blew up part of a nuclear reactor that was on its way to be mothballed anyway (BBC, CNN, Washington Post, and the Washington Times)."

The nail in the coffin
And, here is conclusive proof that the prevailing political philosophies in Europe, all variants on collectivism, are bankrupt. The proof is found in what happens when you take their ideas and transplant them into another part of the world.

In the 1960s, intellectuals from the Arab world were inspired by European political philosophy. In particular, they were enamored with the concept of totalitarianism. This was a novel concept to them. Although they were familiar with the notion of authoritarianism, never before had they seen or heard of a government that actively took complete control over every aspect of human life. Taking it to the next level, they were further influenced by Troskyism, the idea of international Communism, where the entire globe becomes a unified communized collective. These concepts could be applied in the context of the prevailing beliefs in their region: Islam.

The result was Islamic Totalitarianism.

Fascism
Does anyone notice the similarity between today's liberals and the fascists. They are both socialists who shout down anyone who disagrees with their position. They make every atempt to treat McCain the same way the Nazis treated Von Hindenburg. They marginalize a true American hero and laud a well spoken (albeit with a teleprompter) ignoramus with an antiestablishment bent. He may be the true "Manchurian Candidate".

The Left is Evil
Tom, "the similarity between today's liberals and the fascists."

And the communists. They all belong to the Left, which is evil as King Solomon said:

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool(morally deficient) to the left."

Making sense
I wonder if any of the candidates need to read more from Mr. Sowell--it makes sense to me.

Intellectuals "misunderstandings"
Does anyone really think that intellectuals in Europe and America "misunderstood" communism and fascism?

I don't.

Sowell Tripe
Sowell is putting words in Liberals' mouths in a very blatant, misleading and exaggerated way to underscore what uninformed idiots he thinks they are for believing what he thinks they believe. The argument, however, is a non sequitur. It reminds me of when John Kerry was described as being "too French to be U.S. President" - funny to the point of being condescending, but it's really just elitist claptrap from a party that supposedly disdains elitism.

Reread that column, and tell me it doesn't reek with hyperbole. What imaginary person or people is he talking about who "think we should outsource our foreign policy to 'world opinion'"? Whose "blanket assumption" is it that "the European countries are just ... much more sophisticated than [us] American 'cowboys.'"? What moron ever postulated that there are "European sophisticates whom we are supposed to consult about our ... national interests."? Does this columnist really, really think that the political opposition is preparing to "blindly imitate" the mistakes of early 20th century Europe?

You have to want to believe that stuff to think it's true.


Bush Detractors: Unpatriotic?
I would maintain that criticizing George Bush for his 'cowboy diplomacy' is absolutely fair. That doesn't, however, suggest that I think we should subordinate ourselves to world opinion or defer to European sophisticates on matters of our national security. Rather, I would have expected a leader with any kind of natural talent to have understood the basic tenets of leadership: specifically, that to lead, one must get people to follow. Bush's disdain for consensus building, his absolute lack of self-doubt and introspection, his conclusions drawn from information filtered through an inner circle of like-minded ideologues - it's these things that gave him the deserved reputation in the world community - and at home - of a gun-slinging cowboy. Without 'blindly imitating' the mistakes of early 20th century Europe (i.e. Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler, among other idiocies), was it too much to ask for Bush to have spent half the effort his dad did in the first Gulf War, gathering a coalition of freedom-loving countries to follow America's moral imperative, thereby assuring the outcome we were looking for in the Middle East? Having failed to do so was a dereliction of his leadership role.

I'm so offended by Sowell's (perhaps intentional??) misinterpretation of this argument, and so tired of Bush detractors being dismissed as unpatriotic.

Europe's poor history on diplomacy & war
Europe's poor record goes back beyond the 20th century. For thousands of years warring factions have traded conquered land and visited unspeakable tortures on each other. As for the end of WWII, we can thank our own foolish presidents for making decisions that created some of our worst nightmares. Little is said about Roosevelt's foolish decision to cut Churchill out of talks with Stalin and allowing the USSR to control eastern Europe. Then Turman's policies forj western Europe provided for a relationship with the US that was co-dependent. Instead of funding the build up of military capabilities in European contries that were democratic we became their protector. Revlieving them of any and all responsibility for their defense.
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