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Wednesday, June 25, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Imitators: Part II
by Thomas Sowell
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It must be a bitter disappointment to those in the media and in politics who have been dying to use the word "recession" that, for the second quarter in a row, there has been no downturn in the economy, though growth has been slow.

Alarmists have been reduced to quoting other alarmists on the supposedly impending recession but that is still not the real thing.

The definition of a "recession" is very clear and straightforward: Two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have not yet had one consecutive quarter of negative growth.

The fault-finding brigades of critics of the American economy and society are among the reasons why there is so much talk about how we ought to do things that are being done in Europe.

We need to understand America first, before we start imitating Europe.

The American economy produces the largest output in the world-- more than Japan, Germany, and Great Britain combined.

Measured by purchasing power, output per capita in the United States is the highest of any large nation.

There are some very small places like Luxembourg or the Cayman Islands with higher purchasing power per capita but, as Professor Benjamin M. Friedman of Harvard put it, places like Luxembourg are "technically countries but are more like large suburbs." Luxembourg's total population is about the same as that of Long Beach, California. Wal-Mart has more employees than the total population of Luxembourg.

Some other small places like the Cayman Islands are tax havens that attract the wealth of people who are not really Cayman Islanders.

Among countries at all comparable to the United States in size or population, none has achieved as high an output per capita. New Jersey produces more than Egypt. California produces more than Canada or Mexico.

Desperate efforts to depict all the prosperity and progress in the United States as being monopolized by "the rich" have led to all kinds of statistical mumbo jumbo, such as comparing the changing ratios between statistical categories over time and ignoring the fact that most of the people in those categories move from one category to another over the years.

Studies that follow given individuals over time show the exact opposite of what is being said in the mainstream media and in politics. That is, most of the working people in the bottom fifth of the income distribution rise into the top half, and the rate of increase of their incomes is greater than that of most of the people initially in the top fifth. Those individuals in the top one percent, as of a given time, actually have an absolute decline in income over time. As they drop out of the top one percent, they are replaced by others, so the statistical category can be doing great, while the flesh-and-blood people who pass in and out of that category are by no means gaining on those further down the income distribution.

None of this is rocket science. But most people in politics, in the media and in academia still insist on using statistics based on the fate of abstract categories over time-- households, families, income brackets-- even when other statistics, based on following specific individuals over time, are available.

Households and families vary in size from group to group and are generally declining in size over time, but an individual always means one person. Income per household or family can be stagnant, or even declining, while income per person is rising.

That has in fact been a general pattern in recent decades, which may be why the nay-sayers are forever citing household and family income statistics, while ignoring statistics on income per person.

Amid a general undermining of American economic performance, it is hardly surprising that so many people think we should imitate what the Europeans are doing-- whether in the economy, in foreign policy or in other areas.

We can always learn particular things from other countries, whether in Europe, in Asia or elsewhere. But imitating Europeans when they are not doing as well as Americans makes no sense.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
Economy
Angst is the word I use to articulate how those out of power today, use fear to try and turn power their way

Dr Sowell Keep Shining your light
Thanks for another great article.

The "RICH"
The commies in covernment and the news business are constantly repeating the Marxist line about the rich. Marx and Engles were caught in a society dominated by familial wealth. An Earl gave birth to an Earl and then another Earl etc....stagnation. The commoners had almost no ability to improve their lot. Communism had some appeal in those circumstances.

The United States has no noble class. People are guaranteed the pursuit of happiness by our founding documents.

Did your father ever hear of Mr. Gates, Mr. Trump, Mr. Turner, Mr. Jobs, Mr. Bryant, Mr. Woods or Mr. Winfrey?

It's obvious....we don't need no stinkin' socialism!

Facts be damned
Sadly, soon we will hear the cry here, "Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up."

It has been an education to read comments from those who, in blissful ignorance, invent false data to prove the world is square or some other liberal spin. Only occasionally can we read an intelligent comment that takes issue with a conservative viewpoint. I continue to hope that there will be some liberal comments showing there is intelligent life out there.

I have begun to understand how the US can elect a demagogue who, not unlike a"Hitler" may take us to a place no one wants to go. For years I did not believe our "educated" society could be lead into believing lies and half truths. I was wrong.

But I thank people like Dr. Sowell who can take a stand based on facts and clearly explain the issues.

Dr Sowell
is outstanding in many ways, but most important is his ability to select the important basics from an array of facts and statistics. Wouldn't it be great if we could all think as clearly as Dr Sowell?

Dr. Sowell Brilliant!
Hey Dr. Sowell I hope by Imitators III or IV you'll explain the reason why the Euro is higher than the dollar.

Learning the hardway
Sadly, I am resigned to the fact that liberal socialism will eventually win the day. My hope is that the voters to whom this idealism appeals to will learn a lesson. The lesson being; going after the rich and the corperations will result in higher prices and layoffs passed on to the very people the dems claim to champion. Luckily for the libs, those folks won't be able to see the connection!

We are doomed, Unless!
Regardless of all this talk we have to do something! Americans are worse off now than they have ever been before. Our current economic situation is much more horrible than anything seen during the Great Depression, and in a few months virtually every American is going to lose their home to foreclosure and will be facing starvation in the streets.

As Americans, we have no hope for a decent future, and all is lost within our borders. The situation is abysmal, and never before have the residents of any nation had to face such a bleak horizon.

Our only hope is to elect a Democrat President and Congress. They will bring about the glorious socialist revolution that has saved countless nations before. Only by turning over our destinies to these enlightened rulers can we hope for a promising tomorrow. They will ensure that all Americans live equally just as mandated by our constitution. Those who seek to profit from those who have less will be punished, and corporations that profit from their activities will be nationalized.

Vote Democrat, it's the egalitarian thing to do.

The Imitators Part II
Recession or Wake Up Call for the American people who were complacent in the 90s about the immorality in public life and the outsourcing of jobs or losing our sovereignty when our leaders opened up our borders and then refused to close them. Why did politicians allow HMO's to control doctors and hospitals? How can we save a nation if we can't afford to save our own people who are losing jobs? How can we feed a world if the cost of food in America is rising and the oil tycoons are stealing food out of the mouths of babes for greed? Why are we buying products from American companies who are selling us unsafe inferior products from China and entycing us by saying how cheap they are while we lose our jobs? Good grief, we kicked God out of our country and the first name 99.9% of hurting people will call upon will be God. I hope we're not too late to lose the blessings given to this great Judeo Christian country who has lost its way, but still has a little space of time to wake up.

EXCELLENT !


Just excellent. Five stars for you Dr. Sowell.

To Paraphrase the, Savage, another poster, 'I wish I could think as clearly as you'


To that, comment, I give a hearty AMEN !!!


The american dream
The left wants everyone to belive that despite being the most powerful and successful nation in history, we are doing it all wrong. The capitalism that got us here is now evil and unfair. I have a friend from med school whose father immigrated from Vietman. The father was a professor there. Here he worked multiple jobs here in the u.s.(one as a grave digger). He managed to raise a family that saw six children go to medical school and one go to law school. All we hear from the left is that uphill battles are too difficult to be achieved without a steady diet of govt. cheese. Ironically, this hard working family would now be providing a large chunk of said cheese under an Obama presidency. I guess it's their just punishment for making something of themselves and living the American dream.

Travis -- learning lessons
"Sadly, I am resigned to the fact that liberal socialism will eventually win the day. My hope is that the voters to whom this idealism appeals to will learn a lesson."

Unfortunately, that's rather unlikely. The socialism has been creeping up on us for decades, and it's to the point now where new stupidity is justified based on the existence of old stupidity.

Nobody alive remembers when we were free of the Nanny State.

We will get Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Public Indoctrina--eh--Schooling, because we have ALWAYS had all those things, ever since we first climbed down out of the trees and began throwing off the yokes of Capitalism.

Like it or not, we're going to sooner or later go Socialist, and our grandchildren will defend Socialism with their dying breath, even as they'll be dying from the absence of food at the Communal Grocer.

Loyal Dem
You can't be serious. Today's "poor" in America are more likely to have cars, A/C, multiple TV's, and other "luxeries" than upper middle class folks had in the 50's and 60's. Your comparison of current conditions to the depression is insulting to anyone who lived through it or has read anything about it. Technically we are not even in a recession and you compare today to the greatest economic collapse in our nation's history? Hyperbole anyone?

Loyal Dem

You always skewer the crud.

You are always 100% accurate !

Well done sir!

I cannot fathom how you do it, as I would puke, if I tried to satirize the slime.

(Without cursing, that is,)

And again, thank you for your service,
You excellent Patriot!!!!


Loyal Dem
I believe that you are saying that it is fine to rob Peter to pay Paul. FYI, that mentality has NEVER worked out in the past! I wonder why socialist and communist govts. have never been able to reproduce the success of a capitalist democracy such as the U.S. On the bright side, Cuba finally got cell phones.....in 2008.

Travis
Loyal Democrat's post was satire.

Apology Owed.
I like Dr. Sowell's ideas as well as the next guy. However, leading off his "Imitator" series yesterday, he made the grievous error of stepping into a subject of which he knows little, or nothing -- the Woods-Mickelson comparison. And this comparison actully produces the opposite of his argument re Europe/USA Mickelson is currently a healthy player of Professional Golf. Woods is not.

Travis
Lighten up on Loyal Dem.

The only reason he is able to articulate these ideas is that he is typing. I don't think he would be able to actually say these things with his tongue so far in cheek.

Formerly "soms."
Obviously you missed the fact that Woods won the U.S. Open while not healthy. The comparison still fits because even at our worst America still outperforms everyone else.

loyle demcrart
nice to see you doing your thing

As I said yesterday Europe is failing
and it will not be long before it is in total collapse.

As for the U.S. economy it will be in general "bad shape" until O'Vomit is in office, then it will be great and you will hear terms like recovering from the "Bush recession". UBNemployment will go to 10% and you will never hear anything about it.

Tarmangani.
No, I did not miss Tiger's win at the U.S. Open this year. I have been among Tiger's most loudmouthed supporters for over 15 years. I was even most privileged to play a round of Golf with his father, at Camp Pendleton -- on a chance meeting one day.

Without dad, I think Tiger may be making some unwise decisions. A third knee operation on the same knee, this one much more serious, might be career ending. I really fear that it will, yet, since it's Tiger, won't be surprised if it isn't.

Accordingly, at this point in time, not a well- thought out comparison by Dr. Sowell -- especially to his purpose It also slights another great professional player of Golf, Phil Mickelson -- totally unnecessary. (Yes, I capitalize the "G" in Golf, the way some others capitalize the "G" in another word).

Formerly "soms"
I don't see the slight. Japan and Germany have outperformed Russia even though they have less resources. They are efficient producers as is Phil (even though Phil chokes in the majors although he has gotten better). I do believe his style is physically correct since the right side should be dominate if the golfer is right handed. Another example of where tradition trumps logic.

I believe we have gotten a bit off track here. An analogy does not have to be an exact fit. Just enough to get the point across as it did here.

Sowell praises America's output
Does he include all the war making garbage America is now better ad it than Mr.Hitler ever was?

As just about everything in our stores is made in Communist China, right?

Yes, Mr. Sowell may even include the tons and tons of garbage America produces and sells it to Communist China?

It must be tough for all these
America hating communists who come here every day. They are constantly reminded of the failures of communism and how great America still is despite all of their efforts to create a slimy swamp of mediocrity in socialism.

All I can say is that you slimy pukes should all go back to the Kos and Huffpuff where intelligence is not required.

COOKING THE BOOKS?
I believe the "growth" rate last quarter was a miniscule six tenths of a percent, and I am suspicious that the books were cooked to get that result. And the depression-repellant "stimulus" ($150+ MILLION more on the national credit card) was designed to avoid a no growth for this quarter. I cannot understand how you condemn private companies that bankrupted themselves with bad management and deficit spending, but when the federal government does the same thing, you say: "no problem!" The United States is almost $10 TRILLION in debt, will have a large deficit federal budget again this year, and has shameful "free trade" agreement deficits on the income side. How about a column on how we as a nation can get out of debt? Don't forget the entitlement programs on the horizon. And no fair putting it on a credit card, Mr. Sowell!

H.D. ?
Hmmmmmmm........could it be? Hal? Is that you?

Greenspan, on CNBC: U.S. in recession

Greenspan, on CNBC: U.S. in recession
Is Greenspan passing the buck?

Yahoo - Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said on Tuesday the U.S. economy was in recession, and said it would be appropriate to tap public funds to resolve the mortgage-related crisis that has helped pull the economy under.

In an interview with CNBC television in which he defended his chairmanship of the U.S. central bank against charges that his policy missteps had laid the groundwork for the current crisis, Greenspan said Fed decisions on his watch were rationally constructed based on evidence at the time.

“I have no regrets on any of the Federal Reserve policies that we initiated back then because I think they were very professionally done,” Greenspan said.

It is unfair to hold his Fed to task for the housing bubble or the current crisis in credit markets, because global market forces were at work to keep long-term interest rates low, not just Fed policies that brought short-term U.S. interest rates down to multi-decade lows, he said.

“Clearly, certain of our anticipations of what would happen as a consequence of those policies were off but there’s no way of avoiding that,” he said.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/greenspan-on-cnbc- us-in-recession


It is doubtful...
...the socialists that haunt TH are made at all unhappy by what they read hear. Their success is written all over these pages.

Liberals can be proud of foisting McCain upon us. They are encouraged by the growing number of nose-holders. They revel in the division they have created. They know McCain can't win!

Liberals applaud enthusiastically when they witness the triumph of their diversion tactics. They move their agenda forward every time they get one of the knuckle-headed TH columnists to write about one of the myriad "culture war" topics. They know countless keystrokes will be wasted with endless bickering over red-herring issues.

The socialists are winning by redefining words, creating ersatz issues, fomenting dissent among natural allies, and generally sowing confusion and angst among less erudite conservatives. No, there is little reason for liberals that visit these pages to be discouraged.


Iowa PatN Reply #5
Also wait for the revisions on the .6 rise. I read one stat that shows the US contracting since April. No use sugarcaoating it. We all need to brace for the coming storm.

no, it can't be!
Why has no one brought up the game yet. You know, the zero sum one that the economy is? That the only way that Bill Gates gets richer is by making other people poorer? I'm shocked that the loonies haven't rallied around that one yet.

On a more serious note, my rise to the upper middle class from the working poor has taken 15 years. I've still got a lot of working time ahead of me, but I sure don't miss kraft dinner as 6/7 meals.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Despairrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
and
agony
on
me!


Consider Oboma's Proposals # 1
Consider his proposals:

• In effect, he would legislate a 60 percent tax bracket for upper-income Americans, killing all initiative and innovation. He'd raise the top bracket to 40 percent. He'd apply FICA taxes to all income, not just that under $100,000 as at present. So add 40 percent plus FICA's 12.5 percent plus Medicare's 2 percent plus state and local taxes averaging, after deduction, at 5-6 percent, and you have a 60 percent bracket.

• He would double the capital gains tax, saddling the 50 percent of Americans who own stock with dramatically higher taxes.

• He'd double the dividend tax, hitting elderly coupon-clippers now retired and depending on fixed incomes.

• He wants to cover 12 million illegal immigrants with federally subsidized health insurance, dramatically driving up costs and forcing federal rationing of healthcare. As in the U.K. and Canada, you will not be permitted certain medical procedures if the bureaucrats decide you are not worth it.

• He proposes requiring Homeland Security operatives to notify terror suspects that they are under investigation within seven days of starting the investigation.

Well Done Writer of Good Things
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well..... Hopefully, some day I will understand and appreciate those who are successful the good old way but continue to want to break it down and destroy it. Politicians, Hollywoods, Soros-likes, etc.

Consider Oboma's Proposals # 2
• He says that unless they can establish that there is "probable cause to believe that a certain individual is linked to a specific terrorist group," Homeland Security cannot seize his documents and search his business. The current standard is only that the search be "relevant" to a terror investigation.

• In effect, he would legislate a 60 percent tax bracket for upper-income Americans, killing all initiative and innovation. He'd raise the top bracket to 40 percent. He'd apply FICA taxes to all income, not just that under $100,000 as at present. So add 40 percent plus FICA's 12.5 percent plus Medicare's 2 percent plus state and local taxes averaging, after deduction, at 5-6 percent, and you have a 60 percent bracket.

He does not oppose $5-per-gallon gasoline but only says that he wishes there had been a more "gradual adjustment" to the higher prices.

Oboma is strongly against Drilling for new Oil on or off shore or any new Nuclear power plants .

Sowell Nails it Again
The naysayers will not understand his points, because they choose not to understand them. Sowell has absolutely nailed this topic dead-on. Our country is not nearly in the dire shape that is presented by the mass media.

And to the individual who questions why the Euro is higher than the dollar, why exactly is that relevant? The dollar was higher than the Euro for an extended period of time as well. Currencies, like the stock market, fluctuate on a continual basis. It is interesting to note that multiple nations had to band together to form one currency in order to compete with ours. Those European nations also have the benefit of knowing that they live under the proection of the U.S. military and nuclear umbrella, all of which is funded by the good old U.S. of A. Let those nations fund their own defense and see how their currency looks.

Oboma Taxes .# 1

I look at the Sick leftist comments from Oboma's supporters proving they know nothing about basic Economics. Comon sense , reality .OBOMA IS ABOUT THEORY NOT FACTS !
But of course Most Colleges teach the 'Values of Socialism/Marxism hence the OUT RIGHT HATE OF CAPITALISM !
Oboma is on that Team and Mind Set sadly as well .
First : Supply and Demand is the basics of Capitalism . Example you ask all you Computer Geeks and Liberals will understand this simple fact .... Hopefully
A Computer 30 years was as big as a house and cost 3 -5 Million Dollars and was only sold by IBM too Huge Corporations .
Today a computer cost $ 399.00 is a 10000000 times more powerful than that IBM Computer of 25 years ago .

Oboma Taxes .# 2
Productivity in America is the greatest on Earth . MEANING THE MORE PRODUCTIVITY WE HAVE THE LOWER THE COST AND MORE MONEY ALL AMERICANS GET......THEN TAXES PAID .
Now the Investment Tax Credit : Let's say Your Mom and Dad or You and a Friend own a small Co. what the Investment Tax does is ''ALLOW '' You to grow your own CO. hiring others thus making all Business's and Families stronger in America . America's unemployment is 4.5 % EUROPE is 11.9 % .
Capitalism is based on rolling profitable dollars over and over in our Economy . Mother Russia and China found out that when the State or Collective controls Profits >SUPPLY AND DEMAND there is no output .
Example you ask .
FARMERS IN AMERICA PRODUCED 88 % MORE THAN DID RUSSIA AND CHINA IN THE LAST 90 YEARS YET RUSSIA HAD 71 % MORE AVAILABLE FARM LAND .
OBOMA IS A DEEP KNIFE TO THE HEART OF OUR FRAGILE ECONOMY LESS MONEY FOR HIS BELOVED WELFARE PROGRAMS SINCE PROFITS CREATE ''TAXES " ! TOO MUCH TAXES CREEATS LESS JOBS AND TAXES .

John Konop
I guess you missed this sentence from Dr. Sowell's column:

"Alarmists have been reduced to quoting other alarmists on the supposedly impending recession but that is still not the real thing."

BTW, I hear Matt Drudge is looking for an apprentice - but I suspect he'd disqualify you on the basis of your politics.

Travis...
click on Loyal D's handle and read his blog... it's some funny stuff.

Sowell
Another great article. Our economy(total GDP) is larger than the next 4, yes thats 4 top countries combined.

Here is 2006 stats:
GDP (millions of USD)
1 United States 13,201,819
2 Japan 4,340,133
3 Germany 2,906,681
4 China (PRC) 2,668,071
5 United Kingdom 2,345,015

Now, they might have skewed, a little, but we are still about equal to those top other 4 in 2008. Amazing...Proud Liberal...are you going to come on here and tell us capitalism is bad now? Or how about BIGbelly, who doesn't understand that Euro worth doesn't mean anything. The Pound is worth more too, so what?

Loyal Democrat
Very funny man. The problem is many of them sound just like that and would agree with you. Sad ain't it.

Hal Donahue is...
... going to LOVE this article!

He steadfastly predicted we'd be in an official recession by July.

During 2007 & early 2008, he was adamant in his prediction of a Hillary ascendancy to POTUS.

Yesterday, he predicted an Obama victory reminiscent of 1932.

Based upon his track record, McCain should be a lock as our next POTUS.

More and more
Even better

2007 List by the CIA World Factbook
GDP (millions of USD)

European Union 16,370,000
United States 13,790,000

Populations:
European Union 2008 estimate 497,198,740
United States 2008 estimate 304,429,000

Per Capita GDP:
European Union: $33,482
United States : $43,594

Boy, are these stats telling or not? The European Union of 27 countries barely has more total GDP with 200 million more people! Why be like Europe again?



C Miner
EEYuck. I knew i had broken the Depression's grip on my diet when i no longer had to eat macaroni and cheese because i couldn't afford better. But at least i was eating real food, not cleverly processed ???????. Welcome to the ladder. Don't forget to enjoy every step, and hold to the sides. Some of the rungs are treacherous.

Dr. Sowell
gets 5 stars once again. Loyal Democrat also gets 5 stars. That was a gut buster. Travis - don't feel bad. LD has gotten many of us. He got me when I first started reading TH.

Sowell and imitators
No doubt that in what Sowell is saying is true for the moment but as America continues to lose jobs that pay well the per capita of the EU will catch up to the US as the per capita of the US continues its downward spiral plunge.

Sure there are and will be better paying jobs coming down the tubes but the number or the speed in which they occur will not happen soon enough to replace those lost. It takes four to six months to build a house and only a matter of hours to knock one down.

My solution is to board up America with tariffs, impost and import duties in order to make the playing field more level and maybe even tilted in the favor of the US. This will stabilize the job loss and slowly increase job opportunity thus allowing for less income pain as the jobs of the 21st and 22nd century occurs.

Tom Millican – http://www.tommillican.com

Tommy
The Euro is higher than the dollar becasue the dollar is being discounted against debts coming due that are not financed under our current tax system. Europeans, for better or worse, are not running up debt, or kicking debt down the road as we are. Their taxes support their chosen culture/govt and for now, things are relatively stable. Not true here. We are running up huge debt, unfunded entitlements are in place, our culture is captive to cheap oil, which being in the hands of enemies, is a possible threat. The relative value of paper currency is in the hands of very wealthy people who are aware of inflationary and economic cycles. They are betting against the US economy, and so am I. I'm moving my assets into areas that historically do well during inflation, like real estate, commodities, stocks in companies with large portions of their income in foreign currency.

Time to retire
Sorry to say this, but it's probably time Mr. Sowell retires. He's at the point where he no longer thinks and questions what is presented and is merely regurgitating "facts" from the government he has long held in suspicion.

We're not in a "recession" only because the GOVERNMENT supplied statistics say we're not. They have long toyed with how inflation is measured, to the point where the number no longer means much. Go back to the old way of calculating the CPI and inflation is about 10%. If you deflate GDP properly by that figure instead of the bogus one, we're already in recession.

Google "hedonics" and "core inflation vs headline inflation" and "shadowstats.com" and you'll get more details.

He also fails to mention that the fed and government are pumping cash into the system like there's no tomorrow. Enjoy your tax "rebate" check? The government had to "print" money to pay for that. That tends to prop things up till the election to protect the incumbents. But that can't go on forever. The very inflation mentioned above is caused by.... ....pumping money into the economy so that too many dollars are chasing too few goods (like gas, corn, wheat, gold, etc).

Sowell should know better. He would have 20 years ago.

For the LIberals .......................
For the Liberals, ignorance combined with flat out lies are what they are about! This is too bad, because our country needs a balance of liberals and conservatives. Aah! maybe some day!

Uneducated Liberals
Just like everything else, liberals judge things by emotions. Facts just get in the way and are meaningless to them. If Obama gets elected, no matter how much he damages the economy, liberals will praise him as a master of economic policy and provide lame excuses for him, mostly by blaming someone else.

Liberals are nothing but a group of chicken littles, waiting for the world to end any second now.

This is how Bill Clinton
got elected. Americans, courtesy of the leftmedia, were convinced that the economy was in the toilet.
It wasn't (which is why it "miraculously" recovered after his election).
Propaganda.

I am sick of the left telling me how bad things are, what a victim I am, how oppressed and hated we are, and what a rotten country the US is.

The Prez
Your high tariff "solution" and the immediate retalitory tariffs are what brought on the 1929 Depression.

Dr Sowell
This type of optimistic view and reporting of positive factors is absolutely unacceptable. How dare you speak the truth and uplift our spirits, you should be ashamed, but in the interim, please continue to shed light upon us. God bless you Sir, you are always refreshingly enlightening. Thank you.

Sunthe1
Its how JFK got elected too. He invented a "missile gap". As soon as elected, he said in effect, Ooops, I was misinformed, and dropped the issue. He was a very unpopular president while alive, approval rating in the low 3o's when assassinated. I had a big button i used to wear to tease my Catholic friends. It said "I miss IKE. HeII, I even miss Harry". Like blacks and Obama, JFK was the white(black in O's case) knight on a steed for the blue collar Catholic vote in 1960. When he was "elected" they predicted Now we have a decent Catholic lad in the WH, you'll see some decent govt. They were soon disillusioned, as will be Obama's supporters if he wins. These well-meaning folks forget that JFK and Obama and Hillary are politicians first, identity is a poor second. Their agenda is to get elected.

Strange isn't it
that the left is trying to make republicans think they too are victims of a failing nation because victimhood is all they know. Independence, freedom and resourcefulness under the banner of capitalism and our constitution is what has made us so prosperous in a relatively short time after our founding. Why would we want to be victims now????

What facts?
Where in this article does Sowell back up any of his assertions with data. Whose studies, over what time period, on what demographic?

Lilys
You are quite right about JFK.
Mr. Obama is already abandoning some of his radical notions, becoming a moderate to get elected.
His supporters won't care because they're not much into issues. They'll buy the "oops I was misinformed and drop the issue". Those that are actually expecting great things will be gravely disappointed as you describe.
His backers are another story. If he abandons THEIR agendas, there will be peril involved. They are NOT nice people.

The Media & Elections
In 1975 President Ford announced he was running for the presidency and sometime later Tom Brokaw
interviewed him with this introduction: "Mr Ford (not Mr President) I don't know any delicate way of saying this, but the word around Washington is you are not smart enough to be President" The '73-'75 recesssion ended after the first quarter of '75 yet every news cast from the alphabet networks portrayed a gloom and doom picture. The sign off segment was always negative, the anchors always had a frown on their face and this continued until that little pissant jimmah carter was President Elect. Miraculously the economy went from depression to boom the anchors smiled as they signed off and the last segment was uplifting and positive. That is the playbook today. As one communist journalist, Evan Thomas said, the media will add 10-15 points to Kerry's campaign. That has always been the case and always will.

CKHustler: Hey smarty pants!
Apparently you don’t understand how this game is played, so let me explain the rules from the perspective of the Left:

Rule #1: The facts are irrelevant.
Rule #2: You are not allowed to understand anything about economics – that’s cheating.
Rule #3: You must begin with the goal in mind and work back from there. The goal, in this instance, is to change the U.S. to mirror the image of Europe.
Rule #4: Once the goal is established no one is allowed to question the logic of it or require that we explain the reasoning behind it.

Why are we playing this game? Because loathing your own country in spite of all it’s good points, and idolizing other countries, in spite of all their flaws, shows what superior beings we are. Any lowly commoner can love his own country, especially when there is a high standard of living and model form of government, but it takes someone really special (i.e., a liberal) to find the flaws and focus only on those. Plus we get to be socialists and the moral standards are looser.

Do you get it now?

LMAO
"Liars figure and figures lie"

Per capita???? really what are the ages? Why not just count working age adults and output per hopur worked? Then there is the quality of life issues. And please do tell me just what "output" America provides? Now the financial markets are leaving the US. Time for change; time for competency.

Folks
Have a great day

bryce
If you had ever bothered to get an education you would know that what Dr.Sowell was talking about are economic absolutes. He doesn't need any statistics to back him up.

CW
On the money....smartypants! LOL!

CW
Haha, had me going with that subject!

Then we have Hal saying...well what were their ages? haha!!! Really? You cannot accept the fact that Americans have the freedom to live with a higher standard of living than any nation in the history of the world. They also have the freedom to not do so and live a low life, that way they work less hours as Hal has pointed out about our lifestyles.

Hal has it ever occurred why people are leaving? Perhaps our high business taxes? But no, couldn't be eh? haha!

You kill me! ROFL

Bryce - check the facts
Well Bryce, since you’re participating in this discussion I think it’s safe to assume that you have access to the internet and know how to use a computer. While it’s hard to imagine that Dr. Sowell would risk his reputation by making up the facts he asserts, it should be a very easy thing for you to check them out if you’re suspicious. Why don’t you do that and report back to us if you find that Dr. Sowell is misstating the facts? No doubt you’d love the opportunity to prove him wrong.

Rose
The oil tycoons are not stealing a thing. they make their money in sheer volume. Oil is about 95% of everything we are including your clothes, cosmetics, paper, as well as your cars and home.

As to HMO's it was Ted Kennedy and the Democrats that foisted that upon us.

CKHustler
Hal is a typical commiecrat with pie in the sky notions.

He everyone should have the same lifestyle regardless of whether they work or not.

btw hal
Where did that quote come from. I did a ctrl+f find and it didn't turn up anything but your own quote. Did you just quote yourself?

Bryce Needs Help With Common Knowledge
Bryce asks, "Where in this article does Sowell back up any of his assertions with data. Whose studies, over what time period, on what demographic?"

Most of it is pretty much common knowledge to anyone interested in economics. I am sure there is a lot of places to look, but a good starting point is http://www.economist.com, the web site of one of the most read weekly magazines of the world, The Economist, a very Liberal and British publication. They slice and dice this stuff every week and actually post the numbers for anyone's consumption.

They do an especially interesting analysis of all countries using Purchasing Point Parity (PPP), boiling down all currencies into one and determining which country offers the most bang for each "buck". Hint: USA always comes out on top, next to Switzerland.

Most of what Dr Sowell covers, here, is pretty intuitive if not downright imperical. But, you can look it up. If you see any contradictory evidence, you are certainly welcome to post it, here, and we will gladly "peer review" it with you.

Lolo1
Very true. The profit margin of the oil companies, on average, is lower than that of an average business. The average business has a profit margin of 13% while the oil companies have an average profit margin of 11%.

chopper john
people who wont obney the law? easy as pie. people are always free to obey or not obey the law. its up to them. as long as they are wiling to pay the penalty if they are caught . i dont know any other way to do it, because if a person wont pay his taxes thats what he wont do, pay his taxes. if we are going to put hime in jail for not paying his taxes thats what were going to do, put him in jail. whats the problem. oh. by the way, all future events flow fronm this first decision and they will be whatever they will be.

Hal Donahue The Obama Desciple
Hal Donahue offers, "Now the financial markets are leaving the US. Time for change; time for competency."

Great idea! As a Liberal, I am sure that you agree with the Obama solution to all things, tax-them-into-submission. His solution to oil issues, as I am sure you agree, is to raise taxes on oil to bring the prices down. Nice. How does that work?

By the same token, if businesses are leaving you, raise taxes on them until they change their mind. Keep an eye on Michigan, I think that has been their solution. How is that working out?

When Obama says "change", he is talking about our pockets, not progress.

Mac Moore, Lolo1
Mac
Your request to the troll was well made. It merely handed the hot potato back to him. These people just show up to argue, not discuss anything.
Lolo1
You and Anne always bring so much verve to the threads. I always like to see your nick.

The Prez Another Obama Desciple
The Prez offers to make America better by change, "My solution is to board up America with tariffs, impost and import duties in order to make the playing field more level and maybe even tilted in the favor of the US."

Ooooh! Obama loves you!

Check out Argentina. They are the current prototype for you and the Obama solutions: tax-them-into-submission. They were on the brink of economic success and they have managed to tax themselves nearly into the dark ages.

"Change" a term used for emptying your pockets and sending it to Washington to cure all of your ills.

CKHustler
jots:
" I did a ctrl+f find and it didn't turn up anything but your own quote. Did you just quote yourself?"


Punkahue:
wobbie (wispering), wobbie. What did that CK guy just say?

wobbie: I can't answer your dummy, I'm not here anymore!

Punkahue: darnit, now they all know I'm a moron!

SSGT
lol, its like:

As the saying goes "when pigs fly, the ice will skate"

now of course I just made that up...but in quotes it looks legit don't it? haha

Help me understand
Here’s a question for everyone: Does being a liberal make you stupid, or is it the other way around? Consider these comments:

“Yes, Mr. Sowell may even include the tons and tons of garbage America produces and sells it to Communist China?” H.D. #30

And from yesterday’s column (The Imitators):

“The European countries with high unemployment have put that nail their own coffin by opening their borders without increasing the number of jobs proportionately.” Broshow

“We will never imitate Europeans. We are stuck in adolesence. We declared our independence!” Nellie

“when you can be as good a writer as mr woods is a golfer then feel free to write what you will,about him and what you imasgine his thought are. they are evry bit as valuablee as yours until you somehow prove differently and believe nm=-me you havent gone very far in that distance with this article.” MRCMRC

I guess this shows that even retarded people are computer literate nowadays, but I do wish these people at least had the brains to recognize that they’re completely out of their league when they want to take on Thomas Sowell.

Sowell’s point, as always, is very straight forward: It makes no sense to emulate and copy the policies of other countries when their economies and standards of living are demonstrably inferior to ours.

The very fact that someone would try and argue with this is pretty astonishing, and shows how devoid of all basic reasoning the ideology of liberalism is.

Imitators II
Thomas,

I really enjoy your columns. You are one of the few who seem to get to the bottom of many of the myths perpetrated by the left. I only wish the Republican Party would base it's platform on the kind of insight and logic I see in your columns. If Republican candidates could see the world as you, I think I would be a much happier man

CW
the real question is, does their decision to imitate Europe make them feel better. See, liberals don't use logic when making their decisions. They don't check the possibly outcomes either. Its all about how they feel about it. If they feel good about something, no matter the consequences, they will do it. Their morality goes along with that. That's why they support all these immoral acts and lifestyles. It makes them feel good

We enjoy mass prosperity ...
-- something that no other nation in history has ever achieved, Most of the world's population aspires to live like America's bottom quintile. We have it so good that only the terminally slothful know anything like real poverty.

CW
when you put it that way, I cannot give you an aswer. My best guess though, would be that they were born stupid. I can't see how someone just "gets stupid" all of the sudden!
LOL

Liberty vs Equality
All contributors who lament that we are on the road to inevitable socialism are, sadly, correct. In fact, we are pretty much there. We the people are not the same people of our founding. Those people championed liberty; now we champion equality. Not equality of opportunity but equality of outcome as, supposedly, proof of equality of opportunity. Equality of opportunity was the goal our founders sought to achieve through liberty. Liberty is equality of opportunity. But, because we are all individuals with individual strengths and weaknesses, equality of outcome, can only be achieved through suppression of liberty. That suppression of liberty decreases productivity leaving us with a smaller pie to share equally.

If you disagree with them, they excoriate you for not caring about the less fortunate rather than understanding our differences lie not in what we seek to accomplish, but in how we seek to accomplish it. We all seek a decent standard of living for all but we do not all agree that an equal standard of living for all regardless of the magnitude of that standard is the best or only way to accomplish it.

SLAVES WHO YEARN FOR THEIR CHAINS

.....CW ....

.....It is stupidity and fear that breeds Liberalism if we are talking about the modern definition ie: Progressive/Socialism and not the Classical Liberalism of the 19th Century ...

.....Europeans who yearned for freedom escaped from Europe to risk all in a wild and dangerous frontier ...but the genes that produced Socialism, Fascism and Communism, all European concepts and all anti-Capitalist collective social systems have survived in the descendents of the original immigrants and are busy at work in various groups like the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, ACORN and A.N.S.W.E.R, a cover up for the Workers World Party, a Stalinist organization ...

.....The goal of these Leftist groups, including the Soylent Green Commies who call themselves environmentalists, is the downfall of our Constitutional Government and the replacement of our Capitalist economy with Socialism ...

.....The so-called Liberals will poo poo this as the ravings of a right-wing fanatic ...but it is all there for those willing to open their eyes and face the truth ...history does repeat itself and the unthinkable is very, very possible ...even here in the good ole USA .....COLOSSUS

an example of how our tax $$$ work...
a young woman, mid thirties, American born of Mexican decent and married with children whose brother-in-law was temporarily residing in her house and who got out and found work, called up one of his part time employers and insisted that either he reduce the pay to her BIL or to pay him in cash under the table.

Her reason? Because she had worked too long and hard to secure every form of welfare conceivable for her family to have it ruined by her good for nothing BIL who insisted on working so that he could get back on his feet and once again have his own place.

Now keep in mind that she was charging said BIL room and board and did not really want him to move out, but she didn't mind asking his employer to reduce his pay to a level that would not interfere with her welfare by putting total household income over the legal limit or to just pay him under the table which would mean the employer could not use the BIL's wages as a business expense.

You can drive by this woman's house on almost any sunny afternoon and she and her husband, neither one employed and both able bodied will be sitting out on the porch having a cold beer and just enjoying life.

Staying on welfare for this sort is the only full time job they are willing to do.

Isn't it funny..
.. to see the lefties line up to try to defend socialism? We could fill this page with empirical proof that they're wrong, but the lefties will just squeeze their eyes shut and refuse to see any facts that may ruin their carefully crafted fantasies.

Let's face it, "Useful idiots" like the town drunk are so invested in seeing their "messiah" in the white house that they'll forgive Obama for any sin he commits.

Someone could produce video of Obama sacrificing goats in his basement, and they'd find some way to excuse it and turn it on "evil republicans".

One thing we still have in our favor, the Rabid brain dead libs are only a small (albeit loud) faction of the dem party. The rest are basically apolitical, and those are the ones we need to reach.

Some like the town drunk are too far gone for help, all we can do is wait for them to die off and be buried in their tie dye shirts. As the "Summer of Love" generation slowly fades off in a cloud of bong smoke, the USA will slowly crawl out of the swamp the lefties have created over the past 40 years.

One can only hope!



Liberals - Public School Populists
SSGT muses as to Liberal inclinations, "My best guess though, would be that they were born stupid. I can't see how someone just "gets stupid" all of the sudden!"

As I see it, one can not possibly be born that stupid, one has got to have learned it -- probably from one of our fine Public Schools or Universities.

Folks
Defend your "Hooverism" all you want - it is over your failed extreme, fundamentalist conservatism is completely discredited. Socialism is not even an issue and everyone knows it - competency is the issue and you folks definately DO NOT HAVE IT

Raymond
"...If you disagree with them, they excoriate you for not caring about the less fortunate rather than understanding our differences lie not in what we seek to accomplish,..."

LMAO you failed and your ideas are bankrupt. We need competency

Hal:
Just what Executive competencies as obama shown?

the mental disorder is a deeper issue
"It is stupidity and fear that breeds Liberalism if we are talking about the modern definition ie: Progressive/Socialism"

I don't think this gets to the root of it. Liberalism is born out of gullibility and naivete, mixed with compassion minus common sense, mixed in with a healthy portion of self-righteousness.

Just look at the reaction to Obama. In 15 months I still haven't heard him be anything more than the colored version of John Edwards and people go ga ga.
Same thing with man made gullible warming. I can hear liberals now, "I quit passing gas and I'm saving the planet, what are you doing to help out?

However, the stupidity does factor in because leftists can make their case if they can keep the populace ignorant or misinformed (i.e. american public schools and humanities, liberal arts and studies programs in colleges)

The self-righteousness of those with the disorder is what makes it difficult to open their eyes. I do believe, without a doubt, modern liberalism, born out of the 60's, is likely the greatest danger we face as a country outside of those radical cooky muslims.

and still eat so well?


These two comments were Letters to The Editor, in the LA Times, in the early 1950s. “What makes you think doing something worthless, is better than doing nothing at all?”

This person didn’t like “Workfare” where he had to do menial jobs to get welfare money.

Brother Jesse reminded me of the early 1930s in Lake Odessa and in Martinsburg, when our Dad required his sons move the wood pile from here to there, and back again, just to keep us busy.

Another letter concerned an article that said how important it was to have a very good job, and be able to do what you like to do.

The respondent said he did not like to work, had no intention of working, so why didn’t those who like to work, just give him enough money to live, and they would both be happy doing what they liked best. I didn’t write either letter.

As I have said many times, How can you be that dumb, and still eat so well?


Standard of living EU vs US
Yes the Euro IS strong and the people here in the EU are paying out the ying yang for it. Filled up my tank (less than 40 litres, thats all it holds) with diesel and it was exactly US$100 (Slovak Kruna 2,000. Slovakia is going to the Euro Jan 1. Herald Tribune and Wall Street Journal Europe are $5.00 apiece, so I use the internet. Food cost over twice the price in Houston but I haven't given up eating yet. You can't find American King size beds, mattresses, linens, etc. We had to have beds custom made and all linens come from States, no 1,000 thread count overhere. I can see why people are less happy here not getting a good night sleep on these pathetic pallets most of them sleep on. Air Conditionining, right....

There is a 20% VAT tax included in the price of everything AND a 20% FLAT tax on your income. My 401k lost 3/5 of its value since the Crown went from almost 50 to a dollar when I first came here 7 years ago to 20 to a dollar today. The conversion rate to the Euro in January '09 will be SKK 30 to 1 Euro Dollar.

Anyway, when we visit the US a Dollar is still a Dollar.

CK Hustler
You forgot that in 2006, California had the world's eighth-largest GDP, at $1.727 trillion, topping all but four EU nations. California's GDP growth was slowing: in 2000 (before the dotcom bust had fully come home to roost), California's GDP was the fifth-largest in the world, higher than France's. CA pop 2000: 34 million. France pop 2000: 59 million.

(We can't attribute California's success to an absence of poor immigrants either. Further, California's 2006 GDP was 77% of France's, while California's 2006 population was 36 to France's 60 million.)

Texas and New York were number 11 and 12, respectively, on the world GDP list in 2006, each exceeding $1 trillion. Texas, with its 24 million people, had a GDP only $1 billion lower than Brazil's GDP generated by its 184 million population, and about $150 billion lower than Spain's (or 87% of Spain's), produced by a 43 million population.

Clearly we're doing something wrong, here.

Hal Donahue
Thanks for the response and for submitting two consecutive posts devoid of any substance.

Hal
I think I may have missed it...could you show us where you added to the conversation?

Standard of Living in EU II
Most Europeans live in about 1,500 square feet OR LESS. They pay twice the price for electronics.

ThePrez
"My solution is to board up America with tariffs, impost and import duties in order to make the playing field more level and maybe even tilted in the favor of the US. This will stabilize the job loss and slowly increase job opportunity thus allowing for less income pain as the jobs of the 21st and 22nd century occurs."

Have you ever heard of Smoot-Hawley? This has been done before, and the result was a worldwide Depression.


CKHustler:

"...See, liberals don't use logic when making their decisions. They don't check the possibly outcomes either. Its all about how they feel about it. If they feel good about something, no matter the consequences, they will do it. ..."

And that is the heart of the problem. I routinely argue with liberals about any number of proposed "solutions" to problems and start pointing out all the downstream effects of their proposals. The first thing that is immediately apparent is that they never thought past the immediate effect. They didn't bother thinking past their "feel good" theory about it at all. Ethanol is an excellent example. Once I start talking about land use, water use, runoff from fertilizer, clearing of rain forests (which are carbon sinks), commodity prices on corn and alternative grains, and even the fact that the supply of ethanol has clearly failed to create downward pressure on the price of gas, I find that the only thing they ever considered was "reducing our dependence on foreign oil." They never, *ever* considered whether or not ethanol would actually accomplish that goal.

Why we MUST imitate Europe
Europeans pay more for gas - due to higher taxes. We're told that higher taxes on oil lead to the development of alternative fuels, by Govt funded research & development.

So, let's imitate Europe and benefit from their strategy.

But, wait a minute, how come the Europeans haven't invented alternative fuels after all these years of high taxes. Come to think of it, they haven't invented much of anything, have they?

This is all very disappointing of course - but let's imitate them anyway, because they are just so .. smart and sophisticated.

Semper Vigilans
How many times must we point out that facts mean absolutely nothing around here!


Punkahue, have you burned your uniforms yet? Traitor!

Hal:
How's the Retired, Passed Over, REMF, Garritrooper, Southern Hating Bigot, Murtha As$ Kissing, Uber Liberal, Alleged Oil Company VP, Citer Of His Own Articles as Proof, Self Important, Democratic Party Fanatic?

SSGT writes:
Why should he burn them? He couldn't fit his fat as$ into them.

Lumberjack7392
"...Just what Executive competencies as obama shown? "

Certainly; for a major start he won the Democratic nomination in a brilliant campaign. But you miss my point, the people want the most drastic change they can get - Obama wins

The Most Drastic Change...
that people want is NOT warmed over Obama Marxism.....but the American voter will deserve whomever they vote for this November...straight down the ticket....

Hal;
Your point was and I quote, "We need competency" Winning a nomination does not show executive competency. What has he ever done in an executive capacity? Hell, for that matter, name me one major piece of legislation with his name on it that he was able to get the Senate to pass. The man is an empty suit.

Folks
LMAO you don't really get it do you? No one wants to be exactly like "EUrope" whatever that means BUT we do want a complete change of direction from where we are and heading. This failed conservatism must be replaced by balanced forward thinking government. Will it be just like Europe? I certainly hope not in many ways but it will concentrate on what works and what gets the tasks done. You conservatives have BADLY damaged the US and ENDANGERED US security.

audax
"...The Most Drastic Change...
that people want is NOT warmed over Obama Marxism.....but the American voter will deserve whomever they vote for this November...straight down the ticket.... "

They will vote massively for Democrats and change. No one especially Obama wants "marxism" and the people know it. But please keep saying that over and over, it makes you look both old and uneducated.

Lumbe rjack7392 & CK Hustler & SSGT
Mr. Donahue refused to answer my specific questions regarding the generalities in his BIO. He is accusing the TH posters of telling lies about him and by reading his BIO the truth will be revealed. His mealy mouth response was it wasn't meant to be a resume or he wasn't applying for a job. Same old Donahue, phony, liar, coward just like his cousin Phil

Hal:
What Obama want to do is in many ways European. He like you sees no problem that the government should not solve by spending boatloads of money on. We've spent trillions on ending poverty to what end? How well did government solve that problem?

Punkahue
I think I can understand why you like the word "failure" so much now.
Think:
Hitlary Clintoon

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Duck any sniper fire lately, loser!

The Blackbird writes:
Subject: Lumberjack7392 & CK Hustler & SSGT
Mr. Donahue refused to answer my specific questions regarding the generalities in his BIO. He is accusing the TH posters of telling lies about him and by reading his BIO the truth will be revealed. His mealy mouth response was it wasn't meant to be a resume or he wasn't applying for a job. Same old Donahue, phony, liar, coward just like his cousin Phil

I'd say my description of him is much more succint and accurate than his DNC (and how honest is the DNC?) bio. It is a Retired, Passed Over, REMF, Garritrooper, Southern Hating Bigot, Murtha As$ Kissing, Uber Liberal, Alleged Oil Company VP, Citer Of His Own Articles as Proof, Self Important, Democratic Party Fanatic.

The Blackbird
The lying Lt. Col Punkahue also has a new word he uses in every post now, and I know why.

Fail = Hitlary
Failed = Clintoon
Failing = Hitlary Clintoon
Failure ... Well we all get the picture!

Punkahue, have you grown a spine yet, dishwad

hal-itosis
Conservastism is completely discredited?

Oh my.

Who, may I ask, made that determination? The only people I see making that assertion seem to be quoting each other.



Imitator part II
Sowell; is your imitaiting the party line that the economy is fine, not the biggest lie of the true imitators. Which rhymes with potaters, and preachaloters.
The general economy of the US, is sluggish, not stagnant, but it really depends on where you live and what you do.
If you live in LA, Dallas/Fort Worth, Chicago, New York, Washington DC or some of the larger cities. Things are slow but not really to bad.
If your in the flood belt and the tornado alley states, your out look is to rebuild and worry how to pay for it later. If your in the rust belt and northern Agriculture states it stinks.
As for jobs, if your a make nothing mouth piece for others, your making money hand over fist. A CEO of a major firm that is hireing workers in China at $1.20 and hour and with no benefits, your well off and do not care, If your an Oil Company board member or major stock holder your okay with the current situation, and do not care. If your a Engineer working for the government, your worried but not scared. If your an engineer for a local construction company, your pray that your bid was lowest.
If your a dentist, your praying kids eat lots of candy and rought their teeth. If your a desig/engineer your looking for work through Monster or some other resume site while working at the Olive Garden. If you worked for Chilli's or many of the other restraunts out there your hoping to be hired by Mickie D's. If your not one of them, your one of us and your out looks are crappy and it is a recession.
So quit being an Imitator and be realistic.

Hal
So in other words...BO has done nothing. Ok, thanks.

You yet again fail to prove anything backing up anything lol. Its like a broken record with you.

"This failed conservatism must be replaced by balanced forward thinking government"

"You conservatives have BADLY damaged the US and ENDANGERED US security. "

Umm yea...could you back anything up? But should we expect anything from a raging lunatic? nah...thats way too much to ask from you.

CKHustler:
Hal is your typical lib in his writings. When you analyze his posts, you will find he expends a lot of words to say absolutely nothing of interest, importance or intelligence.

Butcher
To quote from his column:
"for the second quarter in a row, there has been no downturn in the economy, though growth has been slow"

What don't you understand about that?

LJ
don't I know it. I have backed hal into a corner many a times. He just tries changing the subject, or making up lies, or just plain running. He even backed Murtha on accusing the Marines. I tell ya...Democrat first, American a long second.

CKHustler
there you go again with facts. Now we're gonna get a book report from Butcher, well, saying absotlutely nothing again. Thanks bud!

Butcher
how's our unemployent here in big CEO country?
How many Americans are working for a $1.20 per hr without bennies?
Just curious, there, Butchy

CKHustler writes:
LJ
don't I know it. I have backed hal into a corner many a times. He just tries changing the subject, or making up lies, or just plain running. He even backed Murtha on accusing the Marines. I tell ya...Democrat first, American a long second

Now he's got Butcher defending him. I find it amazing how libs can read so many different things that reinforce their preconceived notions into straightforward posts. Just look at Butcher's responseto my question to Hal.

The Blackbird, Lumberjack7392 & CK Hust
"Mr. Donahue refused to answer my specific questions regarding the generalities in his BIO."

Yes he did

"He is accusing the TH posters of telling lies about him and by reading his BIO the truth will be revealed."

Not true I said all I am giving up is online in my various Bios etc which is far more than most of you provide

"His mealy mouth response was it wasn't meant to be a resume or he wasn't applying for a job. Same old Donahue, phony, liar, coward just like his cousin Phil "

LMAO go ahead and name call you know I am correct and you know the American people know conservatism was a massive mistake. Hmm what percentage of the folks think the US is heading in the wrong direction????

CKHustler Vs Hal
CKHustler; You stated this in your post,
"You conservatives have BADLY damaged the US and ENDANGERED US security. ", then asked for him to prove it.
Well apparently either everyone else in the world is a liar or you cannot read and tell the differance from truth to fiction.
I feel I am a conservative, but you sir are rather a radical, like all your `Conservative' allies here.
You rant and bellow like an old cow stuck in the mud. Yet you cannot see the fact that your front feet are all thats stuck. Had you reversed course, you wouldbe free and not crying over it.
But no, you want to rant and rave, while you make everyone around miserable also.
Facts, a once balanced and reducing budget has been ostrichized into a mega burden for our grandchildren.
Fact, a once revered and sought after form of government has been down sized by others, and can not be trusted again.
Fact, the war on Terrorism, was nothing more than a scam to invade Oil producing nations.
Fact, for every new Meanial job produced by this economy, we loose five highly trained professional jobs over seas.
Fact, you are a loud mouth and know very little about anything.


Hal:
Are going to answe my questions: What has Obama done in an executive capacity? Has he been a company executive, a state governor, city mayor, president of school board, president of a PTA or what? Hell, for that matter, name me one major piece of legislation with his name on it that he was able to get the Senate to pass.

Butcher
writes:
"Fact, a once revered and sought after form of government has been down sized by others, and can not be trusted again.
Fact, the war on Terrorism, was nothing more than a scam to invade Oil producing nations.
Fact, for every new Meanial job produced by this economy, we loose five highly trained professional jobs over seas.
Fact, you are a loud mouth and know very little about anything."

You call that consrvative.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hals posts...
Hal is confident that Democrats are going to enjoy an overwhelming victory in this election. That may well be the only thing about which he is right but then that seems to be the only thing about which he cares. Consequently his posts now are all just variations of naw-ne-naw-ne-naw-naw. Emotionally satisfying for him perhaps but of no value to intelligent discussion.

Hey you Vet supporters
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1491

Liberalism...
Did I just define Liberalism in my closing words of my previous post?

Hal:
I'll pass on your self-serviving, self written posts you cite as support for your posts. Answer my questions, Garritrooper.

SSGT Snorkel
Location: somewhere in deep rural OH no doubt.
Date: Jun 25, 2008 - 2:57 PM EST Butcher
how's our unemployent here in big CEO country?
How many Americans are working for a $1.20 per hr without bennies?
Just curious, there, Butchy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>
That is Butcher ol Snorkle. Our unemployment is around 5.6 percent last I looked. However, construction is down 27%, MFG is down 34% and New start Adventures are down 12%.
The Question is not that Americans are working for $1.20 ol SSGT, it the fact very few are working in jobs that can repay their school loans or buy that 250K house so many LTs want to build.
And those that do manage to get a job, pay fot their own Bennies. So SSGT are you a cross between a Chevy and a Pontiac or just an ol Snorkel that gets out done by an average Joe named `Beetle' every Sunday.


Raymond writes:
Hals posts...
Hal is confident that Democrats are going to enjoy an overwhelming victory in this election. That may well be the only thing about which he is right but then that seems to be the only thing about which he cares. Consequently his posts now are all just variations of naw-ne-naw-ne-naw-naw. Emotionally satisfying for him perhaps but of no value to intelligent discussion.

Actually Hal's posts subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

Lumberjack7392
"Are going to answe my questions: What has Obama done in an executive capacity?"

He has run numerous campaigns. He has worked hard at numerous jobs and is at least as qualified as John McCain. It is between McCain and Obama remember.

Private Joke SSGT
Your a person of few words, and know the meaning of none.
State one fact you have on anything, and I will bet you even steven it is wrong. Like your oh so big SSGT, You made it to Staff Sargent or stuffed Sargent. After what a life time or in the usual twenty one months of todays Army.
ive read your posts, but you never put out a position to defend or stand for. It is all collateral damage with you. Nothing pin point just hammer away at what anyone says without the decency or object fact.
Where you a desk NCO or a Wanna be.

Butcher
You really have no idea what a conservative is do you. Come on, lay it on me since you know so much.

Let me know some conservative values that have caused any of what has gone on. Go ahead. You named 4 facts, now back them up with conservative principles causing them.

Specifically, I want what caused each one of those things since your superiority complex seems to be taking over the conversation.

Hal
"He has run numerous campaigns. He has worked hard at numerous jobs and is at least as qualified as John McCain. It is between McCain and Obama remember. "

So in other words, nothing...thanks again

Hal Donahue Scribbles:
Lumberjack7392
"Are going to answe my questions: What has Obama done in an executive capacity?"

He has run numerous campaigns. He has worked hard at numerous jobs and is at least as qualified as John McCain. It is between McCain and Obama remember.

That is not answer. I asked for specifics. Do you have trouble reading simple English? If not, go take a remedial reading class. What about he other question I asked. "Hell, for that matter, name me one major piece of legislation with his name on it that he was able to get the Senate to pass."

Raymond
I think you did. haha!

Are we in recession? I don't think so!
Butcher

I don't know how 0ld you are, but I'm 0ld enough to remember the recession of 1980. How about an unemployment rate of higher than 7%? The current rate is around 5% (due in large part to the students that are out of school f0or the summer and seeking summer jobs). How about the rate of inflation? in 1980 the rate of inflation was as high as 14.7% (under the Carter administration, by the way!)

By the way, does anyone know what is the textbook definition of the cause of inflation? In Economics 101 I learned that the cause was the printing of more! After prolonged discourse with a dear friend of mine, I have come to the conclusion that this fact is out of reach of the average Democrat.

Folks
Anyone interested in signing up for Veterans for Obama? I just did LOL.

Hal Donahue Scribbles:
Subject: Folks
Anyone interested in signing up for Veterans for Obama? I just did LOL

I aint that crazy.

Butcher
I suppose I could wait all night for you and not get a straight answer on any of those facts eh? If something is impossible, how can you prove it? haha

Lumberjack7392
"Anyone interested in signing up for Veterans for Obama? I just did LOL

I aint that crazy. "

He is very proveteran very and for a start for fully funding VA no more vets having to go to the Hill and beg on bnded knee for money to run VA - want you conservatives like to see people beg on bended knee don't you? Must be the control thing///

hehe
You know what hal reminds me of? A kid that wants to hang with the "popular group". Not that we are popular :P...but he will say anything, lies or not, to get noticed. He'll make up grand stories so people will listen. Its too bad we have people like him running rampant on the democrat side. Its all fun and games until your country goes up in smoke due to socialism.

Hal Donahue Scribbles:
He is very proveteran very and for a start for fully funding VA no more vets having to go to the Hill and beg on bnded knee for money to run VA - want you conservatives like to see people beg on bended knee don't you? Must be the control thing///

Hf he is elected, his "love" for the Veterans and the Military will last until until 01/20/2009 at 12:01 p.m. Then the Dems and libs (no real difference there) long term hatreds will re-emerge, and both groups will be ignored, and treated like sh!t as usual under Dem Administrations.

Well,
I have to go to the dentist, since I get to pick my dentist, at least I will until Obama's health reforms tells me who I must go to.

CKHustler
"...Its all fun and games until your country goes up in smoke due to socialism. "

It is going up in smoke now because of extreme conservatism and near total incompetence. Time for a change, the Democrats can hardly do any worse. I ythink they will do a lot better as they rebuild America

Hal
Dare I ask you to prove anything you just said?

Hal Donahue is owed
some appreciation. How many times has he expounded on his LMAO routine and yet he continues to be an ahzzhaul and totally full of,uh, poo poo? What an accomplishment that is! It may explain why he offers nothing but empty bromides, unsubstantiated assertions and piles of platitudes. In other words, he's full of gas. Another stupendous accomplishment considering his LMAO routine.
He countered on of my posts with his usual LMAO follolwed by hollow pronouncements and then speculated that I am probably a nice, christian lady. He may want to reassess.

I guess that settles it
Conservatism works since nothing in the past has said otherwise, nor has there been any person to use FACTS to prove otherwise. Sorry Hal, no dice from you

Thats it?
The liberals are going to give up? I was expecting at least an entertaining story or something. What am I here for, but to be entertained by you?

Mr. Donahue
Running campaigns is exactly the sort of thing you would think makes a man successful. Getting elected, wow, that's a real accomplishment. Since he's been elected to Congress, what has Obama done? The question has been asked time and time again, and you have yet to answer. Please, give us one piece of legislation that you would deem important that Obama either originated or co-wrote, anything. Then, at least, you will appear somewhat knowledgable about your subject.

CW
In regards to your #79 post I am wondering if liberalism is a genetic mutation and if quite possibly we could apply gene therapy.

wanna be an Urpeee?
American socialists (read elitists) which include the Enviros., don't care about nasty, capitalist-America's economics. They really don't like common Americans at all and see them as vermin and useless weeds in their nation- wide pot garden.
As long as their personal trust funds hold out, these pond-scum eaters would be happy to see most of us disappear. What they like about Europe is the modern European commoner's lack of spine and willingness to surrender to anybody at any time, then go have a glass of comfort; not at all like those pesky Americans; those baseball-bumpkins with their lack of subservience to their betters; and worse, their likeliness to spit in the faces of their Marxist saviors, and kick them in the tenders.

Butcher
Your posts about economics are a prime example of why the economy in OH is so bad.

What amazes me is that Ohioans continue to elect the same failed leaders into their state and wonder why nothing changes.

Ohio and Michigan were the only two states that failed to prosper under the Bush presidency.

BTW it was Clinton and NAFTA that sent your jobs away, along with the Dem led Congress of the time and many Dem business tycoons. Perhaps you should look to your labor unions to shoulder some of the blame and your green peacers that make opening any type of business not worth the litigation. Ohio loves to blame Bush but that just doesn't stack up to reality.

PILOT LICENSE
TO: HAL DONOHUE:
I understand you are an Air Force Officer supporting Barack "Barry" Hussain bin 'BoomBox (nee: Obama). I support and second your right to endorse this candidate. When Lumberjack asked for substance you reverted to "campaigns" and "has worked hard"

My opinion: nothing so stated is substantive ; ergo, by "campaigns" is this a job function where the accountability is constant and where there is a boss who can fire - axe - Obama or has Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoyToy (nee: Obama) been skating through this real life reality free from common people legitimate scrutiny?

Remember that morsel of food at the end of your fork. I believe gas then was less than $4/gal while today gas prices are rising so fast that only BigMoneyCrats can afford automobile transportation. Diesel pricing is going through the roof and the only thing the O'BoomBox can offer is more taxes (transfer costs to the consumer) on petroleum producers as if his mixed bag undergraduate education at Columbia and his Harvard Law Degree give him any practicle knowledge on petroleum exploration and geology. PowerCrats in their stretch limousines glee with fewer traffic jams and congestion because fewer common people like me cannot afford filling the tank. Truly "hard working" people are harder off because of the Democrat Party and their fraudulent Candidate.

AGAIN: Name one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox (nee: Obama)?

So far you Hal Donohue have failed in this basic mission! Instead of being pedantic be precise in your response. Being military you know if your Buddy is or is not ready to save your life.
Giving Barack “Barry” Hussain bin O’BoyToy (nee: Obama) a license would you feel safer if it was a chauffeur license driving a cab or a pilots license flying you in a plane?
Me, seat belt fastened, I don't think so!

PILOT LICENSE
TO: HAL DONOHUE:

I understand you are an Air Force Officer supporting Barack "Barry" Hussain bin 'BoomBox (nee: Obama). I support and second your right to endorse this candidate. When Lumberjack asked for substance you reverted to "campaigns" and "has worked hard"

My opinion: nothing so stated is substantive ; ergo, by "campaigns" is this a job function where the accountability is constant and where there is a boss who can fire - axe - Obama or has Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoyToy (nee: Obama) been skating through this real life reality free from common people legitimate scrutiny?

Remember that morsel of food at the end of your fork. I believe gas then was less than $4/gal while today prices are rising so fast that only BigMoneyCrats can afford automobile transportation. Diesel pricing is going through the roof and the only thing the O'BoomBox can offer is more taxes (transfer costs to the consumer) on petroleum producers as if his mixed bag undergraduate education at Columbia and his Harvard Law Degree give him any practicle knowledge on petroleum exploration and geology. PowerCrats in their stretch limousines glee with fewer traffic jams and congestion because fewer common people like me can afford filling the tank. Truly "hard working" people are harder off because of the Democrat Party and their fraudulent Candidate.

AGAIN: Name one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to Barack "Barry" Hussain bin O'BoomBox (nee: Obama)?

So far you Hal Donohue have failed in this basic mission! Instead of being pedantic be precise
Giving Barack “Barry” Hussain bin O’BoyToy (nee: Obama) a license would you feel safer if it was a chauffeur license so he could drive a cab or a pilots license so he could fly a plane; ergo, fly you around with your Air Force Officer’s rank?

I guess
they are solidly defeated. Not one of these libs are coming around. I think this is the first time I have seen them all give up. Quite amazing ain't it!

Earth to Conservatives
When you ask libs for specifics about what anyone on their side has done, remember, to libs, if you say it, it's done. No further explanation will be afforded you. Liberalism by its nature is all sizzle, but no bacon. Hence, the mindless following by those who don't think specific explanation of how issues are to be solved matters. Actually specifics only matter if you care about the future of the nation. Mere words will not get it done. This isn't OZ and Obama is not the Wiz.
It's getting tiresome asking an Obama supporter what specific steps he will take to address substantive concerns (aside from giving bumper sticker answers) and getting a deer in the headlights look.

Clone Dr. Sowell
I would be in favor of human cloning if it were limited to thinkers like Dr. Sowell and Dr. Williams.

I agree with the author.
For the past 8 years, libs have done nothing but spread doom, gloom and pessimism while offering no solutions. We'll lose, we're bad, we're poor. Most of what their complaints are exaggerated, biased and often untrue. In many of these instances, their own policies are what's causing the problem. Gas prices for example. Well, libs ought to be happy with the way things are now. They're getting just what they wanted.

OBAMA CENSORSHIP
There has been some McCarthyesque "sensitivity" censorship on my blogs being transcribed because of words such as Box and Boom when referring to the Democratic Candidate. This is just more thin skinned rejection by those aligned with this candidate. Instead of Boom and Box I can include Babycakes with rattle and tears. Very clearly the Democrat Candidate goes back and forth from the High Horse to the High Chair and with his Preacher Microphone wants to be my President.

QUESTION AGAIN: Name one - just 1 - redeeming quality relative to the Democrat Party Presidential Candidate?

PER SE: "Agent of Hope" or "Agent of Change" are nebulous terms meaning absolutely zero so it is time for the adults to pose an intelligent response.

Gayle! your post
fits Mr. Donahue to a tee.
You wrote:

"Hal Donahue is owed
some appreciation. How many times has he expounded on his LMAO routine and yet he continues to be an ahzzhaul and totally full of,uh, poo poo? What an accomplishment that is! It may explain why he offers nothing but empty bromides, unsubstantiated assertions and piles of platitudes. In other words, he's full of gas. Another stupendous accomplishment considering his LMAO routine.
He countered on of my posts with his usual LMAO follolwed by hollow pronouncements and then speculated that I am probably a nice, christian lady. He may want to reassess."

Mr. Donahue has a web page on Huffington Post where he has posted his BIO. The BIO is very general and doesn't tell you much about the man.When asked to be more specific he says its not met to be a resume and he's not looking for a job.
The BIO is listed below:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue#blogger_bio

"Hal Donahue is a retired Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Air Force. He served throughout Europe, Asia and the Middle East, on the staff of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and with the British Royal Air Force. Followingretirement, Mr. Donahue was employed as a vice president of several major energy companies. Mr. Donahue has served as a member of the board for several corporate and not for profit organizations. He now to devotes his time to assisting military veterans and working to elect veterans and supporters to all levels of political office. He and his wife of 30 years, Marg, reside in Scranton, PA and are the parents of three children. Mr. Donahue is a graduate of Colgate University with a BA in Economics and he received his MS in Administration from Central Michigan University."

Mr. Donahue will not elaborate on any of his military experience, private enterprise experience, or education.

I wonder what he is trying to hide.

Excellent Factual Article!
All of the Liberal haters, who constantly blame America as the source of the world's ills, need to wake the hell up. This election is exactly the same as when Carter was running for a second failed term. Memories are so short; we need to remember what President Reagan told us-"Stand Tall America"
It is simply outrageous that the liberal elitists fail to recognize reality. Every foreign policy problem of today has its roots in the Carter Administration's policies of appeasement. Today’s left wing haters feel, if only (Obama) could sit down with the tyrants of the world that these ruthless dictators would suddenly have an epiphany, change their ways and thank him for sharing his wisdom. Just as we did in 1980, we must take heed of lessons we have learned. Historical evidence is irrefutable. Every single policy “change” advocated by those on the left, has been tried before and failed miserably. Incredibly, the Democrats know this; yet in their quest for power, liberals have chosen to lie, mislead, and even incorporate false accusations wherever and whenever they can as long as it helps the delusion that everyone in the World is just one big happy family.

Growth -- But at what cost
Dr. Sowell is fond of saying that we should examine the cost of something before we determine whether it is good or bad. But in this article, he acsts as if the "growth" had no cost. But, alas, this growth comes at a cost that will be disasterous in the long run.

The only way the Fed has been able to keep up this growth in the economy is by infusing huge amounts of money into an already overcharged system. Thus the value of the dollar has plummeted. And it will continue to fall as long as these "growth" policies persist.

So we have "growth". This means that the economists, like Dr. Sowell, can say that we don't have a recession. But this growth comes at the cost of a permanent devaluation (and very probably the destruction) of the dollar.

Personally, I think the cost is too high. I'd rather have the recession that the economy needs to correct its inbalances than see the dollar made worthless.

The media and the economy
It must be a bitter disappointment to those in the media and in politics who have been dying to use the word "recession"

The MSM is determined to create a recession. The media ignores the fact that those holding stocks and bonds are not all the "wealthy" and uses every effort possible to convince the American public that the economy is in worse condition than it really is. Thus, by their attempts to created a recession and thus penalize the wealthy, their efforts also penalize the small stock and bond holders even more.

Although a recession, if it occurs, will be due to the continuing efforts of the MSM and the dnc, we will be told relentlessly that the recession is due to Bush policies.

Dr. Sowell - THANK YOU!
Please continue to light the candle of those who have been in the dark for so long! You are such a welcome respite in this msm ocean of constant pessimistic liberalism. Please know you are appreciated!
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