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Wednesday, April 16, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Political Crusaders
by Thomas Sowell
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The latest political crusade is the crusade to replace ordinary light bulbs with the new CFL light bulb that is supposed to save electricity, reducing the need for fossil fuels and helping the fight against global warming.

Since crusaders seldom stop to weigh the cost of what they are advocating, it is especially important that the rest of us do so before we get swept along by rhetoric and emotions.

With the CFL light bulb, the initial cost -- several times that of a regular light bulb -- is only the financial cost. A bigger problem is what to do if a CFL light bulb breaks.

You are supposed to shut off all air conditioners or heaters, to keep them from circulating mercury vapor from the broken CFL. You are supposed to open windows and doors to air out the place.

Pregnant women and small children are supposed to leave the area while the mess is being cleaned up by someone else, wearing a dust mask and gloves.

What if there is only a pregnant woman present, with or without small children? And what if there is no dust mask around?

CFL light bulbs are only the latest in a long line of "solutions" that can turn out to be worse than the problem it is supposed to solve. But the crusaders will keep selling their solutions as long as we keep buying them.

Another of the political solutions that can turn out to be worse than the problem it was supposed to solve was the recent cancellation of thousands of airline flights around the country, so that various "safety" inspections of aircraft can be made.

Needless to say, this was not the airlines' idea, considering how many millions of dollars in fares they lost. Nor was it even the idea of the Federal Aviation Agency, which usually cuts the airlines some slack on items that are not considered to be really dangerous.

The pressure to get those "safety" checks and corrections done immediately, regardless of costs, came from Congressional politicians during an election year.

One of the real problems with safety issues of all sorts is that there is seldom a weighing of particular dangers against the costs of correcting those dangers -- including the cost of greater dangers from X while you are correcting the dangers from Y.

In the case of the airlines, we are in an unprecedented era of safety as far as American commercial airlines are concerned and the uninspected items did not all have to be inspected immediately.

Since there were thousands of airline flights cancelled in the name of safety, this means that there were at least tens of thousands of passengers unable to take the flights they had booked.

Some of those passengers drove cars to reach the destinations to which they had originally planned to fly. Since automobile fatality rates per mile have long been several times as high as airline fatality rates per mile, this means that the dangers to life and limb have not been reduced by this political grandstanding.

Instead people have been exposed to greater dangers -- in the name of safety!

This is not an unusual situation with hyped safety crusades, whether by politicians or by other safety crusaders.

The testing of pharmaceutical drugs for safety, under the regulations of the Food and Drug Administration, goes on for years -- sometimes for more than a decade -- before these drugs are allowed to be sold to the public.

Even if the drugs have been used for years in Europe without any ill effects, that cuts no ice with the FDA. Even patients stricken with potentially fatal diseases are not allowed to buy the drugs until after many years of testing -- if the patients live that long.

This is just one of the ways in which people are dying from safety rules. Safety crusaders often say, "if it saves just one life," it is worth it -- without counting how many other lives may be sacrificed on the altar to "safety."

Some safety crusaders may be satisfied just to be morally one-up by making lofty statements. Politicians who are safety crusaders will be satisfied if that gets you to vote for them, which is their real bottom line.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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correct again
Once again the law of unintended consequences rears it's ugly head. And the fact that this ugly head rears to look into a mirror is once again lost to the ugly head.

CCFLs do not work everywhere
They do not work with dimmers. They do not work in cold places like northern garages or freezers.
CCFLs certainly save some energy and waste less heat. But they should be our CHOICE, not a government mandate.
Coming soon will be affordable white LED lamps. They are available but still cost too much. These will work in the cold and it should be easy to make them "dimmable".
Politicians are not scientists and our pathetic government schools are not teaching citizens anything truthful about economics, risks, taxes, science, math etc.
No wonder the sheep allow the DC wolves to rule.

DR. Sowell
I don't know when you actually wrote this article but CFLs are no longer a "crusade", they are now the "law".

I had already started switching over to these things a while back, but as someone as already said, this should be a choice and not a government force action. These things do not work in all applications and there are drawbacks.

I do not have a CFR in my house...
...

Another freedom lost
These light bulbs have one and only one virtue: they last for years, which make them good for high ceilings and other places where frequent replacement is inconvenient. The color and the quality of the light that they emit is not yet comparable to that emitted by incandescent bulbs, and there's a lag time of about a second or so before they light up.

The end result is that these things will not go flying off the shelves, which won't be a problem for the lighting industry since either a)the taxpayers will make up their losses in the form of "subsidies", or b)incandescent light bulbs will be banned.

Either way, yet another choice that we should be making for ourselves is taken away.


I beg your pardon...
...for the above bad post.

The point I was trying to make was that I am stocking up on ordinary light bulbs,and if the government wants to put a guard on my house to make me comply,they are going to need an awful lot of employees to pay,as well as their health costs and retirement.

When I get the feeling that the government is making laws without any consideration of it's citizens opinions,I do what I want,as long as I don't get caught.This issue is nothing but politicians pandering to a segment of the population for their own job security.They have caused the population to no longer be WILLING obeyers of the law.

I never thought
that I'd disagree with Dr. Sowell, but the dangers he cites are nonsense. CFLs are no more dangerous than any other fluorescent bulb, ie, use common sense when cleaning up a broken one. As for cost, I bought my first one (a 60 watt equivalent) about six years ago for my post light in the front yard. It was $6. Now I can buy a 4-pack for $7.80. I have no doubt that cost will continue to come down as production ramps up. By the way, that first bulb is still working. My house is full of them now. I don't like being told I MUST use them -- I WANT to use them. I sympathize with Sowell's "anti-mandatory" stance, but he shouldn't use false arguments to further his position. After electricity and the incandescent bulb became available people put their candles and kerosene lamps away voluntarily because it was the smart thing to do, not because the government mandated it. And by the way, I'm not a tree-hugging, global warming alarmist. I just like the idea of cutting 75% off my lighting bill.

The Nanny state
Why is government dictating to us what kind of light bulbs to use? We are getting the Nanny state and losing our liberty. Government is not God, superior to us all in wisdom.

Global Warming
TOTAL NONSENSE! Watch the video "Unstoppable Solar Cycles". The true story of Greenland. Why did the Vikings name it Greenland? Why did the Vikings name the fertile and thriving Iceland...Iceland?

Good Intentions path the way
See below Milton Friedman. Nirvana is going against the natural tendency to "fix" everything.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6813529239937418232 &

It requires us to put up with temporary evils. Voluntary collectivism is prefered to forced collectivism. People will give wisely when it is coming willingly from their own pocket.

The fallacy is that government puts "unselfish" men in charge of selfish men. There is simply no way to dodge the need for men to determine without force what is best for them and their own.

We are heading down the route to totalitarianism. It is time for all good men and women to decide whether they wish a free society or to live in serfdom.

Waste and agility
Milton Friedman...

Thank God for government waste and the agility of mankind to find their way around ridiculous regulation.

When are enough people going to jump off this train speeding up toward a gap in the tracks?

michigander
On the average CFLs use 1/3 of the electricity of an equivalent incandescent bulb. Lighting consists of a very small portion of your monthly electric bill, even in Michigan where a heat pump is not used for heating and cooling. Based on that, it is doubful that you will save 75%" on your electricity bill.

The question should be "does the increased life and slightly decreased cost of usage outweigh the higher price?" The next question will be "after the eco-idiots succeed in getting all the homes full of these things, will they then scream for special hazardous waste rules of disposal which will add to their cost?".

The real users of electricity are the industrial and commercial concerns. If every incandescent light bulb in the country was replaced by CFLs it would not amount to the electrical savings the equivalent of one large base load coal plant that has been canceled due to false CO2 scares.

As I said in my earlier post I started switching to these months ago and am tracking their usage and life cycle. I figure it will take about a year to figure it out.

CLIMATE CRISIS
Has anyone noticed that "global warming" begat "Climate Change" which now begats "Climate Crisis". Catch it on TV, at a station near you.
Interesting that everything is always a "crisis". It is NOT A CRISIS.

Humorous
After reading the list of warnings & instructions associated with breaking a CFR bulb, I can't help but imagine what OSHA might say about their use in the workplace vs. the incandescent bulb!

Political Crusade?
Anything that attempts to alter somebody else's opinion can be called a "political crusade." Even your articles, Mr. Sowell. This is a poor way to frame any argument.

The light bulb changeover is no more of a "political crusade" than the idea of clean water. It is part science and part a public health DISCUSSION. Of course, there is a big buck in it for the manufacturers, too. The issue might become politicized by making it mandatory, but right now it is no where neas a "political crusade." As a writer, you should choose your words more carefully. Sloppy writing belies your sloppy thinking.

Also, your distain of ""if it saves just one life," it is worth it -- without counting how many other lives may be sacrificed on the altar to "safety,"" is hypocritical, since you equally champion the right of the individual to prevail over the needs of the many. You are similarly saying that "it is worth it" to protect the one life of your self-described superhero, regardless of the cost to others.

When will you learn that every idea is a double-edged sword? Your essays continually lack balance and insight because you constantly erect a straw-man whom you claim is on a "crusade,"evil, etc., when in fact the illogic you ascribe to others is always your own.

This is not a conservative vs liberal thing, since many liberals also argue as poorly as you do. They erect their own straw-men, too.

Nancibelle
Whenever I now hear a politician talk about "Climate Change", I just shake my head and add it to the ever increasing list of reasons we need real government reform - maybe a Constitutional Convention to impose term limits.

To hear these idiots say "the climate is changing" is as stupid as saying "the sun rose in the east"!

No kidding! The climate is ALWAYS changing - always has, always will.

So what?

Primus54
They will require a special MSDS label. Currently they do not, but that is subject to change with action by the eco-idiots and the regulators. Here is an MSDS sheet provided by a manufactorer.

http://www.tcpi.com/PDF/1362_00688%20MSDS%20CFL%20SS.pdf

behappyandfree.com
Wow...

Tell us again. How many best-selling books have YOU written? How many newspapers carry YOUR opinion columns?

You sound like somebody who'd agree with Obama that rural folks are essentially angry hayseeds.

michigander
"CFLs are no more dangerous than any other fluorescent bulb, ie, use common sense when cleaning up a broken one..."

I suggest you take a michi-Gander at the 'Law' regarding the clean-up & disposal of "broken CFL bulbs"...then go out and stock up on masonry jars, the preferred disposal 'vehicle' to transport your broken bulb to the hazardous waste site for it's last rites!

For God And Country
W/O=

Vic
Thanks for the info. And I'll be interested in hearing the results of your experiment!

well, I suggest
you stock up - that is what I am doing. These "new" lights don't fit under my lovely ceiling light covers and I am not buying new ones. At my age, I figure I have enough "old" ones to last me the rest of my life. I will be darned if I will take anything to a hazardous disposal site - I don't think one exists anywhere near me. Govt wants you to recycle - where - 50 miles from my house? Isn't going to happen!

FromTheTop1
I've been trying to 'explain' the Greenland thing to the Goracle Groupies for about a year now.

I found it Hi-larious that several scientists (climatoligists & anthropologists among them) were IN Greenland 'studying the effects of glacial melt' as it related to the Global Warming Crisis (riiiight) when they "found" a Thousand Year Old Viking Village being uncovered as the glacier receded!!!

I asked many of the Crisis-Crusaders - "IF there was NO ICE, NO GLACIER, in the spot the Norsemen built their village 1,000 years ago...is the Earth JUST moving through it's regular cycle AND NOW EMERGING from a 1,000 year cooling period (ICE AGE)?

In Essence...which came first -
Chicken or egg?
Grass or Ice?
Hot or Cold?

For God And Country
W/O=

I Am Sans Pareil
There is no "law" for cleanup and disposal. That is an urban myth. See the MSDS sheet I posted above.

look into the regulator's office...
... is it 100% CFL?

If not, why not? Who knew and when? Blah blah

Let's say we wanted to really, really lower energy consumption: turn off the TV, Air conditioner, washing machine, hair drier, clothes drier, and hot water heater.

Imagine the energy savings if Americans turned off only the TVs and air conditioners? Folks have lived for millennia without either. And, for a while, they lived and farmed Northern Greenland. (Found that article in a 1972 Nat Geo mag while researching a global warming paper!)

CFLs, global warming, etc. if it weren't so serious it would be just funny.

Where Do I Send My Spent CFLs?
When my CFLs no longer light but are not broken, do I mail them to Owlgore, Jorge Bush, Obambi, Hillary, or George Soros? I want a new guvmint program that will pay for a proper container with postage and a "mail-to" address label. What has happened to all of the fluorescent tubes that have burned out over the past 20 years? Do you think anyone has called the Hazmat team to collect them?

Just the Beginning
This CFL light bulb nonsense is just the tip of the iceberg. The government will soon be telling us how many hours a day we can run our tv's, computers, etc. in our homes. I can envision a time when electrical devices are manufactured with built-in governors that automatically shut them off after so many hours in a given day (at the behest of the government of course). I warned friends and acquaintences about this very thing long ago, asking them how many freedoms they'd be willing to give up for this global warming "crisis". It's funny how so many people, who were deeply offended at President Bush and his tapping of international calls to/from terrrorists, do not feel violated at all when the federal government tells them exactly what kind of light bulb they have to have in their homes. You want another example of unintended consequences? The government insisted on a law for low-flow toilets to help save water. As a result, we cannot buy a regular toilet legaly in the U.S. anymore. The result? We flush our toilets two, three or four times where once used to be enough. Keep the government out of our homes; it's in everybody's best interest!

What's next?
Will the government be regulating the toilet paper industry? Will they tell us what we need to wipe our tushes with and how many times we can wipe it?

CubeCommander
Too late; OSHA has a rule for toilet paper.

http://www.cdc.gov/elcosh/docs/d0300/d000398/d000398.html

There really is NOTHING left that isn't regulated in some way.


tommy
I agree.

Government contrtolled thermostats are already in place in certain places (California I believe as they are the nanny experiment that seems to be testing this stuff before they bring out into the remaining 49.

Also, those one gallon toilets really do stink (no pun intended).


TeeHall
You are right. Nobody calls the hazmat. They get thrown in the garbage. When this starts happening on mass scale...more regulations are sure to come.

Does anybody think a home version of OSHA is scary?

Thinking about COST & Effect
I am reminded of the (seemingly prophetic) lines from a 1988 Talking Heads tune "Nothing But Flowers" -

"the highways & cars were sacrificed for an angry culture...thought that we'd start over but I guess I was wrong"

"this was a discount store now its turned into a cornfield..."

"we used to microwave, now we just eat nuts & berries"

"I miss the honkytonks, DairyQueens & 7-11's... and as things fell apart nobody paid much attention"

W/O=

Greener Pastures
Does anyone remember the controversy surrounding the way in which data was collected for the 'Great Global Warming Study'?

Thermometers & 'other equipment' measuring the temps in various parts of the country were SUPPOSED TO give us an accurate reading of the Earths temps at various Longitudes & Latitudes. Remember?

The "controversy" erupted when it was 'discovered' that many (too many) of the measuring devices were put in places like...

Asphalt (blacktop) parking lots.
In close proximity to Air Conditioner and Heating Unit EXHAUST VENTS(!!!) atop office buildings.

...and many other places that skewered the final analysis.

Now...think about the link to THAT study & the high cost of food TODAY!
It Is Ethanol...corn based fuel.
No feed for the livestock when the Oil Companies are paying TOP DOLLAR for the corn!

Maybe someone should do an HONEST STUDY about how the "crisis" is driving us to the poor house hungry!

For God And Country
W/O=

Survival of the Fittest
Earth cannot survive Humans - so the god of the environment has evolved something it cannot survive? This god is really NOT intelligent design.

Why then would evolutionists fight against their own god? Evolutionists should want us to help their god instead of resisting it.

Survival of the fittest - Resistance is futile.
-------------------------------------------------

I prefer to trust my God than the god of men.

God Bless America!



Moral Bankrupt Airlines
Speaking of airlines, hows this for good business practice.

A friend of mine booked a trip last December (to Alaska in July). He paid for the tickets up front. Four weeks ago he gets an invoice for a fuel surcharge for these tickets in July. Two weeks after paying the fuel surcharge, the airline files bankruptcy. No refunds offered.

Sans Pareil
Corn based ethanol doesn't compute...unless you talk to the farm PAC's.

The home mortgage crisis hits our shelter and the ethanol mfg hits our food.

On the plus side, I live where there is lots of farmland (in case I need to grow my own),...on the negative side though, not too many caves around here to find shelter in when home OSHA takes my home for violating govt mandates.

Dr. Sowell keep shining your light
Liberalism is always looking for a "silver bullet" to solve problems. The main problem with their "silver bullets" are they keep firing them at everyone but themselves.

America has become one big clinical lab for liberals to try their solutions on us folks.

The collateral damage of their experimentation is never measured nor will they take responsibility for their actions. They rush off in their limousines and jet airplanes to find yet another experiment to try on their human guinea pigs.

Hillary says she will solve and eradicate poverty.

Obama says he will heal the racial divide.

Guess who pays for their experiments.

When their silver bullets fail - their eyes will moisten and heads will drop and they will say - "I tried but the lab rats just wouldn't give me enough funds and cooperation." Their minions will cheer for them and praise their names.

nannies
I have spent decades involved with automobiles and therefore know something about the topic. Thoughts that occurred to me are:

Crash safety standards were instituted to reduce the "carnage on the highways". I spent 15 yr. as an auto damage appraiser/adjuster for insurance companies. I estimate that during that period ('70s and '80s [no air bags, no belt usage])I had 15,000 assignments. Fatalities=ONE, one death only! I do not recall any of my co-workers having any either.

No one, to my knowlege, has invesigated the true value of front aibags. I know that they do cause injury. If at the moment of collision, a forearm is over the bag, the result is often a broken arm and/or jaw. These things are powerful explosives! I would never pay for front airbags if I had a choice. I believe belts are adequate and can even be improved Note: no airbags in racecars, aircraft etc.

It does not matter to the Politbureau but I think youngsters and adults can be happier if children are in the front seat and actual interaction between the generation can go on. The minimal risk is worth it.

Joan Claybrook liked explosives in cars and we all pay.

Esses
Should have been 'yrS'
Should have been 'generatiomS'

Sorry.

I Am Sans Pareil
I Am Sans Pareil writes: Wednesday, April, 16, 2008 9:17 AM
Greener Pastures
Does anyone remember the controversy surrounding the way in which data was collected for the 'Great Global Warming Study'?
-------------------------------------------------
Good point!

I also noticed that since many of these "hot thermometers" were relocated and replaced - that a sudden cooling began.

They soon will be telling us about global cooling.

CRUSADE AGAINST FOSSIL FUEL
ROAD TO EXTINCTION?

.....Humans have survived for hundreds of thousands of millenia because of our intelligence ...now it appears we have produced a populace so devoid of intelligence that we could be in danger of becoming extinct ...

.....who bought into the Global Warming nonsense? ...Who bought into the alternate energy scams? ...who keeps us from recovering our own vast reserves of fossil fuels? ...who votes for these politicians who create and pass these destructive and suicidal Energy Bills? ...

.....Why it is us ...Vox Populi .....COLOSSUS

Spotted Owls
So what happens when this mercury over tme leaks out of landfills into the ground and water supply and an environmental wacko finds a dead owl from it?

I think I will start buying up thousands of regular light bulbs before this mandatory switch takes place.

God and Guns
This is why small town Americans cling to Religion and Guns. They are sick and tired of big brother telling them what to do. Let's make a deal. I will support government getting out of the bedroom and tolerate the "gay" lifestyle if you will let me have the rest of my house. We cant build generating plants because they pollute. Can't build refineries because they pollute. Can't drill for oil becsuse of the carabu or harvest timber because of the spotted owl. Yet eveyone comlains about the high cost of gas, electricity, housing and food. Wake up people wake up. We are all being flim flammed.

Save Energy
You might save energy but you will not save any money. Rates will be raised so that the energy companies do not go out of business or have lower profits.

This happens every time.

Klip,

early on this blog said a mouthful when he/she posted this: politicians are not scientists and our pathetic government schools are not teaching citizens anything truthful about economics, risks, taxes, science, math etc.

The purpose of the government schools is to keep the public ignorant of the things that most affect their lives. An educated populace is difficult to bamboozle. Therein the reason for using the government schools to keep people ignorant.

When education speaks most often to emotion, the use of reason is diminished. Decisions made based on emotion are only randomly sound and correct.

Sowell miises half the problem
Total cost and risk is greater than Sowell mentioned. We are relegating the manufacture of CFLs to China which uses high mercury, low grade coal to produce the energy to make the bulbs, and who have poor safeguards for handling the hazardous materials used in the manufacture of these bulbs. These pollutants end up in the air and are being dropped on the US by the winds. This deposit of material is being identified as the source of the high levels of mercury in athletes who train on the west coast and likely effects the rest of us.

To make matters worse, the Chinese then use hardcore polluting container ships to haul these things over to the US. These ships are being fueled by oil being purchased from Iran with the dollars you spend on the bulbs. Total cost and risk embedded in this law is very high. Much higher than the always shortsighted Sowell reports.

Save the bulb.

warming vs cooling
Retired Geek wrote:
They soon will be telling us about global cooling.

They already are.

The term "Global Warming" has become passé, the term is now "Climate Change".

Good marketing is prepared for any contingency.

My cold dead hands...
I’m already stocking up on old-style light bulbs. To paraphrase Mr. Heston; I’ll give them my incandescent bulb when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

An informal TH poll
I'll probably get no responses to this, but here goes.

California's assembly is considering legislation that would require retailers to charge customers 15 cents each to have their purchases put in plastic bags. The ABC affiliate in LA helpfully found some guy on the street who said, Yeah, sure, that would make him use fewer bags. (Actually, he said "less bags.") ABC-7 featured footage of plastic bags strewn over highway roadsides in this spot, clearly implying that the problem with plastic bags is that they end up as litter. There was also a passing video shot of a mound of trash being compacted in a landfill.

Here are my poll questions: How many of you toss plastic bags on roadsides? How many just throw them away in your non-recyclable garbage when you get your items home?

I do neither. I find plastic retailer bags to be a great convenience. Every one that enters my house gets reused. When its lifespan is concluded, it goes in the recycling barrel. Without the bags I get from the grocer, drugstore, etc, I will just have to buy more plastic bags in boxes (no sense in paying 15 cents for each one). I won't use any fewer plastic bags; I will be just be inconvenienced and have to spend more.

What do you say, TH?

vic
Your response to michigander was incorrect. Michigander stated that CFLs allowed a savings of 75% off his (her?) lighting bill, not overall electric bill.

Also, the CFLs that I use generally require about 75% less power than incandescent. See also http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls.

Thomas Sowell on light bulbs
A voice of sanity. Congress passes idiotic legislation controlling such personal items as toilets and light bulbs - and we pay for it all.
There is concern the new bulbs could adversely affect those with autoimmune conditions. A local doctor has already reported seeing multiple cases of skin conditions which began in relation to the new bulb use. And guess what, they burn out in two months!
Who will absorb the cost of disposal long range - WalMart? Not liekly.

behappyandfree
There is nothing inconsistent with arguing both:

(1) That a particular governmental safety regulation is counterproductive (because even if it may reduce risk in one activity, it causes shifts in behavior to other, riskier activities); and

(2) Even if a particular governmental safety regulation causes a net safety improvement, it ought not to be adopted because people should have the freedom to engage in some risky behavior.

Dr. Sowell is no hypocrite, and your accusation to that effect is based on your own misunderstanding.

Freedom
Whatever happened to the concept of freedom?

Why is it justified to use the threat of force to deter people from using incandescent light bulbs?

I Am Sans Pareil
""Maybe someone should do an HONEST STUDY about how the "crisis" is driving us to the poor house hungry!""

Don't you know? The science is settled. The scientists have come to the consensus that only Al Bore and his global socialism can save us now.

Just ask phylo, he'll tell ya. :op

SemperVigilans Poll
SemperVigilans wrote: "I do neither. I find plastic retailer bags to be a great convenience. Every one that enters my house gets reused. When its lifespan is concluded, it goes in the recycling barrel. Without the bags I get from the grocer, drugstore, etc, I will just have to buy more plastic bags in boxes (no sense in paying 15 cents for each one). I won't use any fewer plastic bags; I will be just be inconvenienced and have to spend more."
-------------------------------------------------

We do the same exact thing at our house.


To Tommy
Caught your comment on low water toilets. I agree that had to be the world's dumbest idea and now the results are in. The multi flushes are using more water than ever. Do they rescind this poopy idea; of course not! The sloan valve Co. has a power flush that really works. All commode manufactures offer it. Unfortunately it is expensive. Mine was really cheap as I purchased it used from a plumbing contractor who was paid to remove it from a brand new house! The complaint. It was too noisy!

Uses for plastic bags
When I had my dog, grocery bags were the best way to pick up after him, thus allowing for me to keep the street free of dog waste.

As for the light bulbs, they do not emit enough light for anyone with poor eyesight to read by, and they also don't work in 3-way lamps. I'm not going to buy new lamps for my house so I, too, am stockpiling the old ones.

Congress
I think the proper name for those idiots are the nanny boys.Here in Iowa the nanny boys outlawed smoking in all places except for casinos and veteran homes.How much money did those nanny boys collect under the table from the gambling industry.I trie one of those bulbs in a lamp.It lasted less than a year.

Unsettling thoughts....
Normally, I am in complete agreement with Mr. Sowell; however, when it boils down to the FDA and pharmaceutical companies, I have no sympathy. The FDA has been known to have drugs "tested" for decades, while others shimmy by with only a few years of testing. The problem is that most side effects of drugs, not just the nausea and dry mouth side effects, but the deadly side effects that create much bigger problems like cancer, don't appear in individuals until many decades later.

Both the FDA and pharmaceutical companies are a joke. Neither group wants to see the money tree dry up by creating a cure for the disease; they are perfectly happy lining their pockets by treating the symptoms.

So, I guess I do agree with Mr. Sowell, that the save one, while hundreds of other die is inane. But the bigger question should be, why not save them all with a cure, rather than a treatment?

Not to mention, with all of these scientific, technological, and financial gains in medicine, isn’t it troublesome that there have been no real cures or vaccines since polio (let’s not count the flu “vaccine”, as it isn’t really a vaccine since you can still get the flu—it just won’t be as bad). We dump billions, if not trillions, into the medical R&D arena by way of charities, drug companies, and government grants, yet with all those great minds, they can’t come up with anything?!?

Unsettling thoughts
Normally, I am complete agreement with Mr. Sowell; however, when it boils down to the FDA and pharmaceutical companies, I have no sympathy. The FDA has been known to have drugs "tested" for decades, while others shimmy by with only a few years of testing. The problem is that most side effects of drugs, not just the nausea and dry mouth side effects, but the deadly side effects that create much bigger problems like cancer don't appear in individuals until many decades later.

Both the FDA and pharmaceutical companies are a joke. Neither group wants to see the money tree die by creating a cure for the disease; they are perfectly happy lining their pockets by treating the symptoms. So, I guess I do agree with Mr. Sowell, that the save one, while hundreds of other die is inane. But the bigger question should be, why not save them all with a cure, rather than a treatment? Not to mention, with all of these scientific, technological, and financial gains in medicine, isn’t it troublesome that there have been no real cures or vaccines since polio (let’s not count the flu “vaccine”, as it isn’t really a vaccine since you can still get the flu—it just won’t be as bad). We dump billions, if not trillions, into the medical R&D arena by way of charities, drug companies, and government grants, yet with all those great minds, they can’t come up with anything?!?

SemperVigilans
I do pretty much what you do with plastic bags. Also, when they get too plentiful, we have numerous retailers who keep large bins at the front of their stores for recycling of plastic bags so I just bring them to these retailers.

Like many here, I am sick to death of Congress and state legislatures butting their noses into my home and determining what kind of lightbulbs, toilets, etc I can buy. This IS NOT the purpose of government. And like many here, I plan on stockpiling incandescent bulbs for many future years of use.


Stuck on stupid
Even normally sensible folks can get caught up with some of the feel good hype. My local REA was offering free CDL bulbs to those coming to the office. I emailed them and pointed out the pollution and cost of rural folks driving many miles to pick up "free energy saving bulbs" was creating an awful lot of pollution.
I put one of the bulbs in and it soon burned out, aha, then what to do, can't send it to the land fill, nowhere locally to dispose of them. Hard line enviros suggested I drive to Billings, MT (135 miles each way) to the disposal center there.
Once an enviro thinks of something, that is a hard and fast thing, and they cannot be dissuaded.

Arby
Just ignore Congress and use whatever kind of lightbulb or toilet that you want.

Save the Plastic Bags!!!
"" I find plastic retailer bags to be a great convenience. Every one that enters my house gets reused.""

Every small trash can in my house is lined with bags from the supermarket.

Of course, to a liberal this is the wrong kind of recycling. I should eat my trash and defecate in a compost pile in the back yard while powering my computer with a hamster on a treadmill (till PETA outlaws it) All the while Al Bore will continue to spew tons of CO2 in the air flying around in private jets whle telling us rubes how to reuse toilet paper to save the planet.

I'm so glad I learned to think for myself and didn't become a liberal.

GG-AZ
Perhaps you are right on the 75%. I checked the bulbs that I purchased and they are 26W for the equivalent of 100W, whereas I was thinking they were the equivalent of 75W. On the “lighting bill” issue I don’t think so. If Michigander is still monitoring perhaps he/she can clarify, but when most people say light bill they mean their entire electric bill.

And finally, take the 26W bulbs I just discussed. At 7.1 cents a KW you would have to burn one of these bulbs thousands of hours to save enough money to equal the taxes and fees on your typical electric bill. Based on that, I would say that most people will never see a real savings unless it shows up as a reduced failure rate.

And that brings up the final point. I started using these bulbs four months ago in the high use lamps in my living room that my wife and I use for reading. They have not burned out yet where the old incandescent bulbs averaged replacement about every month and a half. And yes these bulbs do burn bright enough to read by.

Michigander
I looked up the issue and found a number of sources that verify Dr. Sowell's conclusions.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp

http://earlychildhood.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_dark_sid e_of
_light_bulbs

I appreciate the fact that many people are looking for meaningful ways to cut energy use as well as protect the environment. But, really, we should not be having any discussion in this country that involves telling people what they can buy based on promoting one industry over another. The fact that the Nobel Prize winner, Al Gore, who allegedly "cares" so much about the environment, doesn't even address this issue, shows again there is no limit to his hypocrisy. Maybe the dangers are not very great, yet they exist nonetheless. Free people should decide for themselves what is acceptable risk.


Plastic Bag Penalty
Another idiotic idea from the land of fruits and nuts. If I remember correctly plastic bags were brought about by the desire to “save trees” in the paper bags (which I liked better). Now they want to not use plastic bags also. What are they recommending people use now?

Here most of the stores have bins that people can bring them back and stuff in where they can be reused. We do that here with all the ones that don’t get reused as trash bags. After all, they are “biodegradable”.

CA would be better off if they started fining the politicians 15 cent per hour for every time they opened their mouth to emit CO2. CA is a fine example of what happens when the Democraps have absolute control for more than a year or two.

Vic, sorry I'm late
responding to your post... had to work this morning. Yes, some of us work rather than sit on the computer all day. Uh, I didn't say I was saving 75% on my "electric" bill; I said I was saving 75% on my "lighting" bill. Secondly, I don't know what kind of CFLs you're using that draw 1/3 the wattage of an equivalent incandescent bulb. The box on my 100 watt equivalent bulbs state that they draw 23 watts. Do the math.

CFL bulbs and Epilepsy
One unintended consequence the libs never took into account was what the bulbs do to Epileptics. My sister is epileptic and can't have flourescent bulbs in her house. When congress bans incandescents, I guess Hillary will say pretty much the same thing that she said when told that her health care plan in the 90s would destroy small businesses, "I can't protect every under capitalized business"

I guess we can't save a few epilectics, let 'em have seizures, we're saving the planet right?

What a joke....
I wonder how many Americans are buying these bulbs because it makes them 'feel good' or because it relieves their self-imposed guilt....."Well, I'm doing my part to protect the environment and fight global warming!"

I wonder how they would feel if they knew EVERY ONE of these bulbs are manufactured in China...using unregulated coal burning power plants. If they truly believe their own AGW rhetoric they would also know (according to their own theories) they are actually making the problem worse.

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

michigander
OK, I guess you will in fact save 75% on your "lighting bill". LOL, that will ay most be a dollar or two a month.

None of this takes away from the point I was trying to make. These CFLs are neither the big savings for mankind or the big monster that each side is making them out to be. Sure, the federal government does NOT have the authority to decree the kind of light bulbs we use but these CFLs are not the biohazard that the urban muths make out, nor or they harder to read with than the equivalent wattage incandescent bulb.

I would say there are some issues with where they can not be used and some health issues for people like Jackpine was mentioning. For those issues I would guese people will have to go to the other low energy bulb, LEDs. I had been investigating those also. If you think CFLs are high priced check those out.

CFL energy savings(?)
The proponents of CFL's make their energy savings claims based on the fact that 75-80% of energy used by incandescent bulbs is converted to "heat". This is true, you can feel the heat given off by an incandescent bulb. CFL's do not produce this heat. The eco-nuts claim the heat produced by incandescents is "waste" heat, therefore, the CFL's will save about 75% of the energy used by an equivalent light-output incandescent.

All this is true except that the heat given off by incandescents is not always "waste" heat. In the winter, that heat warms your living spaces and reduces the amount of energy needed from your dedicated heating system. When changing to CFL's your heating system will end up using more energy. And, if you have resistance heat, then you will increase your heating enrgy by the same amount you reduce your lighting energy. The opposite is true in the summer; CFL's will reduce your cooling energy.

So, the amount of energy saved with CFL's is very dependent upon geographical location. Northern climes (cold winters, cool summers) will have very little savings converting to CFL's vs. southern climes (mild winters, hot summers).

Mandating CFL's for all regions is BAD policy. As usual, the eco-nuts are not telling you (or, want to know) the whole story.

Also, I've read that the life expectancy of CFL's is very dependent upon "duty cycles". Meaning, if you turn the CFL's on/off many times (like bathrooms), then the life expectancy is reduced. Also, when placed in areas that have little usage (storage areas, attics) you're using an expensive bulb that will be used infrequently. Not very efficient, bad policy.

CFL
I managed an apartment complex and an office complex for several years. I installed CFL bulbs in basement and attic fixtures, some of which had to be on all the time. I found the 60 and 75 watt equivalent bulbs on sale for well under a dollar each, not much more than regular bulbs. The 120 and 150 watt equivalents were about $8 each, on sale, again, not much more than regular bulbs.

I also installed larger CFLs in place of 150 watt
bulbs in high hats, both in common areas and in tenant offices. These saved the tenant a considerable amount of money, but I don't know how much. All I know is that he was very happy with the switch. (40 bulbs at 23 watts vs 120 or 150 watts with average use of 40 hours a week and a service life of years instead of 3 months.)

By our rough calculations, we saved about $500 a year in the apartment complex and $2000 in the office complex. Not great savings, but still enough to make it worth the trouble.

These figures don't take into consideration the labor required to change the regular bulbs when they go out.

As a poster has said, use common sense when disposing of the bulbs. There are a lot of dangerous things out there, things like auto batteries, drain opener, oven cleaner -- just be careful.

I agree that the government has no business mandating something like this. You'd think there were more pressing concerns for government to worry about.

Plastic Bags
SemperVigilans-
My New York Times comes in a plastic bag. I use the bag to pick up after my daugheter's dogs when they are visiting us. See, there is a reason to subscribe to the Times. (BTW, one of the dogs fetches newspapers, but refuses to fetch the Times. This behavior started right after their last pro-NAFTA editorial.)

Plastic Bags
My husband and I reuse all of our plastic bags as:

1. Dog bags
2. Trash bin liners
3. Trash bag for the car
4. Lunch sacks
5. To carry small items back and forth to work
6. Carry my knitting projects

another effect Vic?
Here in Canada I have to pay to heat my house 10 months of the year. The "wasted" energy from incandescent bulbs provides extra heat.

Do you think that the extra 75W of heating (or 40W for an old-style 60W bulb) per active bulb in the house should be factored into your year-long calculation? In your case it would require extra cooling during the hot months. I, too, am interested in your final results.

(and good comments on the other thread)

Sowell right and wrong
Sowell is spot on as usual about the crusading morons, trying to inflict safety on us. But he's a bit off on the CFLs. I bought my first CFL back in 1998 and it went out last year. For the most part they are convenient, but certain types just don't work in certain areas, mostly because of aesthetics (imagine CFLs in a nice chandelier, for example) or because the light is garish (the bulbs in my readig room give great light, but the kitchen lights are so-so).

There is more sensitivity today about the disposal, but I recall 25 years ago, going out behind the K-Mart and using the thrown away Fluorescent tubes as light sabers, smashing them to pieces all over the place. Didn't seem harmful at the time, but perhaps that explains the large growth on the side of my head.

Basic Economics

Picked up "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell today. As I paid for the book a lady in line stated to the employees tat there should be gas price fixes in order to "stop the madness" as poverty and standard of living are "crashing". Just like during the Carter administration she said. We should be sitting in lines every oter day and those 18% interest rates lasted only a year."

These employees have to find other jobs because the book store isn't selling enough books.

This lady who spoke so passionately about the hay days of Jimmy Carter was in her sixties.

Hold Thomas Sowell's book put my in an awkward situation for all of the ladies look at me as if to get verification so I said, "I'm not sure about you lady but I am not a fan of the Great Depression or the poverty and difficulty we all faced during the Carter Administration.

As I left the store a fairly cute guy said, "I just wanted you to know I agree with everything you said.

I guess what I'd like to know is "How does a person reach that age and still believe garbage economics?"


C_Miner
Yes, I was aware that lighting contributes to the heat load of the buildings. In fact, the utility I worked for had factored that into the design of the ventilation system in our building. At quitting time we were to leave ALL lights on in the Winter and turn them off in the summer. This was with fluorescent lights also as they do give off some heat, just not as much as incandescent. Also, this was a LOT of fluorescent lights. LOL, I note that a poster above did his calculations for savings based on 40 bulbs burning 40 hours a week in his apartments. Wow, that is a lot of leaving lights on all the time for an apartment dweller.

As for the “savings” from the heat generated I suppose you would get some but there are much more efficient ways of generating heat than from light bulbs. As for savings from not generating heat here in the summer I am sure there are some but my gut tells me that it will be minimum. I am about to find out if this never ending Winter will ever go away.

In any case, the facts is that lighting is a very small portion of most people’s electric usage and private household electric usage is a very very small portion of the total electric load on the system. For example right now while my heat pump is running a small amount of time due to the mild weather I am using about 30 kw per day in my house. There is a paper mill in town that on a full power day uses about 30 to 50 megawatts per hour. When you compare replacing a 75 watt light bulb with one that uses only 19 watts to 50 million watts you see the futility of the action.

Vic
You ask what's next if they outlaw plastic bags.

Well, the grocery stores in our area are now selling the cloth bags that are large enough to hold only a few items. I've got one from a local natural food store, and one from a pet shelter fundraiser. They are useful for totin' stuff to the ballpark!

Not sure how much more energy is used in making those and getting them to market than in making and recycling plastic bags.

But I guess it makes 'em FEEL better... :)

CFLs and Safety
So much for safety. When it comes down to "doing something" about Global Warming or product safety -Global Warming will win every time.

GreenDay
""There is more sensitivity today about the disposal, but I recall 25 years ago, going out behind the K-Mart and using the thrown away Fluorescent tubes as light sabers, smashing them to pieces all over the place. Didn't seem harmful at the time, but perhaps that explains the large growth on the side of my head""

Wonder if we were at the Same Kmart!

We also used to take 'em to the local pond and throw then in the water like spears, they shot out like rockets :)


AliveInHim
Yes, some of tyhe stores here have started that as well. Cloth bags that look somewhat like the old book bags.

Of course most people will want to wash them after they ahve been used a few times so there goes the energy savings.

I have an idea!! Why don't we have all the eco-idiots that push this kind of cr*p available 24/7 to go shopping with people. They can hand carry all the groceries for the shoppers in reusable nylon back-packs. Being the yuppies that they are I'm sure they have plenty of those.

CFL's cost efficient? Not.
I have been using CFL's for about three years now; living in Georgia, I replaced most of my incandescent bulbs with an eye to lowering not my lighting, but my cooling bill. Incandescents give off 90-plus percent of the energy in simple heat; CFL's about twenty. Yes, CFL's do give off heat, at least the smaller ones that have the instant-on feature, just not as much as a regular bulb. It seemed a good idea to eliminate as much heating while running the air conditioner in the summer months. I doubt I saved much - if at all. So far I have replaced four of the orginal twenty two bulbs. Three years ago, they were six bucks each- that's a lot of electricity. And two more need to be replaced as they only come on after several minutes warm up. They do make three-way fluorescents, but the two (yikes!) I bought for my bedside lamp lasted less than two months each- at a cost of seven dollars apiece. (It now has had a regular bulb for the past two years. )This changeover does not include replacing my dimmer switches (three) with regular on/off's.

More Problems With CFL's
The only things these bulbs have done for me is burn out within a week and cause my wife to stress out over the issue of "how on earth are we supposed to dispose of these things"? Now how is something filled with a toxic metal that can (and will) leech into the water system supposed to help the environment? Further, the quality of light will likely cause psychological problems with people who are sensitive to light quality. I would love to have a light bulb that actually does last 5 years and uses less electricity -- just not this one!

Government mandated solutions don't work
CFLs work fine for me in some circumstances, in fact, I was using them before their were cool.

But after recently having one burn out after only a few months, I was extremely disappointed. Additionally, many of my reading lights are turned on and off excessively--exactly what they recommend against in CFLs, and said reading lights are much less useful when they have to warm up.

Troy Camplin
As I posted earlier, CFLs being a hazard is an urban myth. Check the below MSDS sheet. They can be thrown away like any thing else.

http://www.tcpi.com/PDF/1362_00688%20MSDS%20CFL%20SS.pdf

If carried to their extreme,
the new 'Green-Dark' law(s) will be the end of incandescent lights for all homes, business's, vehicles' headlights, tail lights and dash lights. Signboards, emergency lights, flashlights, street lights, traffic control lights, aircraft hi-intensity landing lights, military systems and on and on and on. Look out your window at night at all the lights and think long and hard about a government that would mandate darkness and the resulting danger for America!
Back to the cave for the "Bitter gun and religion nuts". Speaking of which, better buy some guns and start praying.
What do you want to bet that congress will exempt it's self (and friends)from their draconian edict.
We will spend as a nation many more billions of dollars and many more billions of megawatts of energy producing much more greenhouse gas, then will ever be recovered in our life times by switching wholesale to the mercury-polluting incandescent system or even to the more efficient LED system.
What happened to the freedom of "Let the market decide the best product?"
The Reverend J. Wright might rightly say: Our congress and president are, "Stuck-On-Stupid."
Ain't the 'Green Shirt socialists' grand?
BOHICA!
Think this is bad? Get ready for fuel rationing.
Too much freedom out there folks! Buy a bicycle now before the rush.

Last post...
...should have read..."switching wholesale to the mercury-polluting florescent system... not 'incandescent system'. solly.

Vic
Pulled up the MSDS Sheet. Somebody should let the EPA know as they have an 11 step process for cleaning up a broken bulb. None of which simply says sweep up and throw in standard garbage.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694819

oops
Left off the backslash.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694819/


Also those plastic bags come in handy for keeping the smell from diapers emitting from trash can. Double bag or triple bag, it keeps down the smell.

modernone/Vic: Thank You
Thank you for stealing my thunder... you both covered just about every aspect of an issue I have been informing people about in my own "personal sphere of influence" for the better part of a year.

Anecdote - Las Vegas Signage
As I recall, during the "energy crisis" of the '70's, the Las Vegas casinos all agreed to shut off most of their garish signage, leaving just enough to identify the place.

Hoover Dam, where they get most of their electricity, noted that they couldn't even tell the difference, it was that small. Nevertheless, they now have smaller bulbs that use less juice, inside big reflectors so they're just as bright.

The big chunk of electricity there goes to air conditioning. They could leave the lights on and turn off the AC and save some *real* juice. Of course their patrons would all die from hyperthermia, but what the hey. A small price to pay to become eco-friendly.

EPA
I checked the actual EPA site and they do have 12 step RECOMMENDATIONS. Note that these are 'recommendations" for broken bulbs and not disposal.

Remember two things. The EPA is made up of wild-eyed eco-idiots who entered work at that agency to save the world and they are too stupid to work for the private sector. The second thing is we are talking about microsopic amounts of mercury. They act like we were dealing with lethal poisonous material that was certain death. When I was a kid we used to take mercury out of the lab at school and play with it all day. Including rolling it down the halls because it made the floors slippery as sn+t.

Imagine all the decades of people playing with Mercury in LARGE amounts with no visible problems.

The MSDS sheet is correct as it stands right now. When one of these bulbs burns out you can throw it in the trash and forget about it. However, as I understand it, some States like Commiefornia do have stricter laws for disposal. But they also have laws for disposal of everything.

http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#flourescent


But this is so important!
It is obvious to any serious politician that this is far more of importance than other causes before Congress. After all, it allows them to meddle in private life, it sets a procedence to do same, and it keeps them from having to get into trouble with voters by trying to fix something important like illegal immigration.

CFL paranoia
Thomas,
Sensationalism is not journalism. Journalism is based on 'sourced' facts; this article, like many others, is incorrect. That is my professional stance. I am an environmental engineer, a graduate of The Georgia Institute of Technology, and an Industrial Engineer. I have worked in the efficiency field for 17 years. CFL's contain less than 5mg of mercury and many less than 3 mg of mercury. The amount of mercury placed in the atmosphere from 'Edison lamps' is ten times net more than CFL's. CFL's are 75% more efficient than the 100-yr old technology we have embraced all these years. The cleanup procedures are for worst-case scenarios. I am surprised your article didn't address the other 'dangerous' items in our home. What am I to do if I spill bleach or what if I were to mix that with comet and cause a toxic gas in my home. What about the pesticides (poisons) in my home or the explosive vehicle with carcinogenic fuel I park under my bedrooms every night. What should I do about the risk from VOC's that offgas from drycleaning. If you would like we could all shed technology and become Amish. The list could go on and on. There are many items we use for convenience or because they work better than the alternative; CFL's are such a device. The 'hype' is doing nothing but confusing the issue. We have had 'mercury laden' lamps above our heads in offices for decades, but I never heard a peep from the press. You are not being balanced or accurate. We are adding 7 gigtons of carbon into an otherwise steady state sealed planet and this number is rising exponentially. Renewable energy, efficiency, and fuel efficient vehicles are the only path which will help mankind attempt to correct what it has done and is doing to the planet. I urge you to do the research before you are tempted, once again, to jump on the band wagon of social paranoia and sensationalism.

Yes, Dr. Sowell...
Yes, Dr. Sowell...and you didn't even scratch the surface on the infinite list of crusades or crusaders. Many of these supposed "green" fixes are an absolute fraud or complete debacle.

We are now being mandated by our stupid Congress to use CFL's which contain mercury (a flippin NEURO-TOXIN for gods sake.) There is no way to safely throw these things in the garbage. So the supposed enviromentalist running our country want to save some energy by polluting land fills with a NEUROTOXIN.

Here's another example... the San Diego Unifed School district has had it's electric bill shoot up by around $20,000 per year since installing solar energy systems. "The school board approved spending money on solar panels for three schools as a lesson in planetary stewardship." So instead of actual money going to students, teachers, teaching...funds are now being spent on an expensive alternative energy source.

Speaking of green...follow the money.

Vic
No argument from me regarding the EPA or California.

I say let the marketplace sort out the cfl issue.

I use them for areas that are hard to change and some small closet spaces where there is a heat fire hazard from the incadecent bulbs. They are not ideal for replacement of all standard bulbs.

The LED looks promising however again cost is an issue along with brightness etc.. More design efforts here would seem to be better than putting effort into CFL's.

My real fealing about this CFL
boondoggle is that it is similar to the "Adopt-A-Highway" program and the scrap drives of WWII. They are largely a propaganda tool used to brainwash the general population.

If you think you are doing your planet good by spending extra for a CFL you will be more amenable to the larger tax increases and influence peddling schemes coming from the AGW scam.

SEMPER VIGILANS 11:21

.....I reuse plastic bags and they eventually end up in recycled trash ....I think most responsible people do this ...why doesn't Calif just hit litterers with hefty fines ...it worked in Texas .....COLOSSUS

To behappyandfree.com
You JERK !!!

You talking down to Thomas Sowell is about like a LIGHT WEIGHT Liberal wanting to fight my USMC BAD A.. !

Your total elite ARROGANCE toward Thomas Sowell and You have it right and Sowell doesn't reminds me just how stupid the elite Harvard scholar Oboma talking up to air head
San Francisco elite's about how pathetic those in small towns lives are in PA sounded . You wrote EXACTLY like he sounded .Who the hell are you ? Obviously a "Wanta be "But Ya ain't ..even close !
You are at best appalling and obviously poses no minors of self on how your own words appeared . One suspects if you are a man you couldn't get laid with a pocket full of $1000.00 bills in a whore house and if you are a women only Bill Clinton would want your temporary services
One suspects Thomas Sowell 33 books later and loved and admired by many and even a old white guy like me in a world you know not nor will ever know .
Just for the record I wrote Thomas Sowell a long letter on my 65 Th. birthday last year about just how much he had meant to me all my life and he wrote me back a wonderful very personal (humble )letter .You should learn the word (humble )Practicing it is out of the question with you !
Oh yea I am one of those Penn. Christian Gun totting Gun owners who just happens to be a Multi Millionaire after my 6 years in the USMC and two tours in Nam as a ReCon Marine .
Rev Wright , Jesse Jackson and Oboma would "respect your elite ARROGANCE . Not I or many others !


HOW TO DISPOSE OF CFL'S

.....When each CFL burns out, put it in a box with bubble wrap and mail it to your Congressman or Senator ....if the entire Country did this I believe that our Representatives in Washington would soon get the idea and then maybe they would stop passing stupid laws .....COLOSSUS

Useless light bulbs
I bought two of those light bulbs and never use them. You can not see to read by them. Only an idiot like Al Gore would recommend them. I haven't paid a lot of attention to who runs our country until recently. I can see why our country is in such bad shape. The old saying that "I wouldn't vote for him for dog catcher" applies to most of these people. I am surprised we have done as well as we have if these are the kind of people that have been elected so far.

Thanks
Once again, Dr. Sowell has brought light into my life by shining the truth. I was ready to switch to energy efficient lightbulbs but will refrain from doing so - even though I am not likely to become pregnant at age 60! The danger outweighs the benefits.

New Light bulbs
Note that you are told that the new 15 watt flourescent bulb (that is as about as attractive as a pig in a mud hole) is the same as a 40 watt incandescent light bulb. Try this test: get a light meter and compare the two. I am a retired electrician and worked with flourescent lamps in a school system for 19 years.The only reason that two 40 watt flourescents put out what they did was because they were 48 inches long and then the good industry started cheating and put out 32 watt lamps and labeled them with the 40 watt rating and the lumens are not the same. In other words, you get a little less light but so faint that you do not notice it with the naked eye.
This new lighting was introduced by G.E. and they did not sell well so the lobyist persuaded the government (how much money we will probably never know) and the government has now passed a law that it will be mandantory to use these "eye ruiners"
Think I will invest in eyeglasses stock. I have a feeling the stock is going up.

Light bulbs
There was a time when a person who wanted to build a house just drew up a plan took it to the building dept. got a permit and started building his home, barn or other buildings. Not anymore. Now the procedure is to go to the EPA for their approval. They tell you that you cannot build your building because there is a danger for the stickleback fish so you can't use your property even though you've paid an enormous price for it. Now they want to tell us that these new light bulbs are better for the environment, save electricity, but they fail to say that the light from these kind of bulbs is not bright enough to read the fine print from the EPA's propaganda.

To Vic
Thanx (re: the mythical law)...
Live & Learn...unlike a LibSnob, I CAN do that.

W/O=

baseball doc...
5:19 post---HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, I live in TX near Houston; and our "Don't Mess with Texas" is a great slogan. However, we've had such an influx of people from throughout the country and illegals moving here, the littering is a despicable eye sore. Yes, we had litter before, but it is atrocious now. Littering is one of my pet peeves. It's so unnecessary. There are trash cans everywhere. I just can't believe what pigs many people are. It's not global warming that is a crisis. It's littering..........

Mickey
So true...follow the "green." Greenbacks that is. Have you noticed lately on TV just about every company is now jumping in the "green" bandwagon. BP, Target, Walmart, and on and on and on... It's just another ploy to make more "greens" and for the government to intrude further into our lives.

Thank god for all the "bitter" gun toters as they maybe our only salvation from these green-eyed monsters.

Lisa
"This lady who spoke so passionately about the hay days of Jimmy Carter was in her sixties."

Now THAT is a rare occurrence indeed.


lisa
The 60's something woman who loved the Carter years was (do the math) in her twenties during, THE SIXTIES!!!
Obviously, she is still trippin'.

W/O=

Bill to repeal
FYI: Rep. Michelle Bachmann of Minnesota, with the backing of 24 co-sponsors, has introduced HR 5616, The Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act, to repeal the relevant sections of the Energy Independence and Security Act that mandated the phasing out of incandescent bulbs. Contact your local Representative and ask them to support this bill.

Keep in mind, too, this little gem from the Pittsburgh Tribune: "The light bulb ban isn't the first time Congress has attempted to protect Americans from wastefulness. Some years ago, lawmakers outlawed toilets that use more than 1.6 gallons per flush. The low-flow toilets don't work as well, of course. Ironically they often require several flushes to, shall we say, get the job done."




Koala
This is great. Energy security is not worth sacrificing freedom.

Interim poll report
Thanks to all who have provided answers so far. To date, out of 10 responses, 8 have specifically affirmed that the poster reuses and recycles plastic bags.

I don't personally know anyone who does otherwise. I certainly don't plan to start using cloth bags for my groceries if California's assembly passes this iniquitous legislation. I will buy small-size trash can liner bags (which I don't have to do now, since I use the retailer bags to line my small trash cans), and bag my groceries in those. In fact, I will tote the plastic liner bags into the store, neatly folded, in a large-size plastic freezer bag. Perhaps I will make the effort to paint or otherwise personalize the liner bags. Glue and glitter have tremendous possibilities.

BTW, the quality of light from a CFL bulb is awful. I can't read by the light of CFL bulbs. But I do like th proposal of one poster to mail spent CFL bulbs to our representatives in Congress.

It makes me weary
By the time that we are all required by law to install the potentially hazardous new form of lighting, we will also probably have increased the population to a null offset in the amount of energy requirement.

When one of these geniuses who seem to have had the proverbial "light bulb" idea that florescent lighting will make a tinker's damn with respect to the true energy requirements of this nation can address that argument, I will replace mine.

If these same energy Einsteins can produce the calculated difference of bulb efficiency vs. the override in the peak requirement of just one very hot day in air conditioning in July, we may have a point from which to debate.

Until then, you know where I think is the best place for twisty globes and your feel-good experiment in testing the limits of what can be perpetrated on the public in the name of "Captain Planet."

Tom Sowell on CFL bulbs
Concerning the dangers from the mercury in a CFL, Sowell should
contact the manufacturers and their Medical staffs.
Don't let the fear mongers confuse the issue. Sure, constant exposure
for many YEARS can cause problems ( e.g. 'the mad hatter'),
but random short exposure cannot.; In the 30's we children used to PLAY
with liquid mercury,( coating dimes was great fun), and apart from the
fact that I am a conservative there is nothing wrong with me.
We also used liquid mercury in Labs in High School.
In my home I have replaced some 20 incandescent bulbs with CFL's,
and dropped my electricity consumption by some 50%.
As I bought the bulbs as remainders at a big box discount store
and paid less than one buck each. I got my money back in a month.

I agree completely with his thoughts on the FAA;
The next big campaign by Congress will be to demand that local police
enforce all "yellow line" violations on their city streets.If a delivery truck
is stopped in your lane, you will go to jail if you cross a yellow line
in order to pass that truck. No matter how safely you drove.

CFL's
Some months ago I started replacing incandescent bulbs with CFL's. I was shocked to find out that some of them burned out very quickly - one in a matter of days. I am now writing the date of installation on each bulb - a little study.

When I complained to GE I got a long list of restrictions on the use of CFL's. Basically, they are suited only for places where they burn for hours without being turned off and on. Every time you turn one off you are shortening its life, so if one is used in a room where the light is turned on anf off several times during the day, the bulb's lifetime will be nowhere near the mythical 10 years. There are few places in a normal home where the CFL's are the best, most cost-effective choice.

We have been sold a bill of goods. Congress has sold us out to the green nuts. If these bulbs were a reasonable replacement for incandescents they would have replaced the incandescents in a free market before now. Instead, the manufacturers have been given absolute freedom from competition. Every Congress person who voted for this bill should be voted out of office. This bill should be a campaign issue. Where is the outrage over the way Congress has trampled on our rights?

To those who played with Mercury
When you are diagnosed with Lupus be sure to mention that to your attending physician.

Another whacked environmental disaster in the making is the mandated (by the clean air freaks) placement of Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ethylenes (MTBE)s in gasoline mixtures. This stuff does aid the completion of combustion but it is an absolute disaster when it is spilled and washed into the watershed. It takes an incredibly small amount of this industrial junk to ruin millions of gallons of potable water. That is drops to thousands of gallons making that water a poison of serious consequence.

Drink distilled water.

Part of your problem, Oma,
is your use of GE bulbs. They started going downhill years ago, about the time they won the restaint-of-trade lawsuits against the various local electric companies that provided free light bulbs. Personally, I've found almost any other brand of bulb to be more durable.

Apparently, this reputation is not limited to their consumer division. I used to work for a company that was a service vendor for a couple of nuclear power plants. While one was in a refuel outage once, I overheard one engineer say to another about their GE turbines, "Well, GE's repalcement parts aren't the BEST quality, but you'll never pay a higher price."

danny -- Yah? So? -- Get the Point, pls
I will presume your statements to be 100% true and authoritative.

My response is, essentially: Yah? So?

Where does any of this give Congress the power to mandate what kind of lightbulbs we're allowed to use? Show me the Constitutional provision that authorizes it.

The point of Dr. Sowell's column isn't that we're being mandated to use something that may actually be riskier for us than the existing alternatives. The point is, "Political Crusaders" who only look at one side of the equation, are using the Force of Law to get us all to do things their way.

The choice of options is being made *FOR* us, meaning, our choice is being forcibly eliminated.

These "Crusaders" only look at the "plus" column, and not the "minus" column. But we get stuck with all the "minus"es as well, and it's virtually impossible to get rid of this "well-meaning" legislation, once implemented. Like those "low-flow" toilets that we're *still* stuck with. Even some proponents admit it was a bad idea.

Dr. Sowell can't cover every possible aspect in a 700 word column. I wish he'd covered the point that these lightbulbs are getting support not only from the eco-nuts, but also from industry. Our Honest Politicians (they stay bought) are happily going to make millions of dollars for the people who manufacture the new bulbs, who, somehow coincidentally, applied a lot of political pressure (and probably greased more than one palm).

The lightbulbs are not the main point, they are only an illustration, a typical example, of the main point.

Yo Modernone
Whether Dr. Sowell has all the facts about this issue, you've made his point (talk about short sighted), which is the government didn't take into account the points you made, never mind the ones Dr. Sowell made. It is evident from your post you are so engrossed with yourself you are unable to see the
brilliant common sense in every dispatch by Dr. Sowell.

Just a thought
Is anyone aware of any studies about the long term effects on one's vision using the CFL bulbs instead of incandescents? I'm wondering which of the two bulbs is better for one's eyes.

Someone mentioned airbags
several hours ago. That scam typified the political crusade mentality even more perfectly than the current "green" crusade does.

Air bags, you'll recall, were originally touted as a back-up device to protect those "poor misguided fools" who refused to use seatbelts. However, they are not effective w/o the use of the lap/shoulder belt system to keep the occupant in the proper position- in fact, they're potentially MORE dangerous when used w/o the belts they were supposedly mandated to be protecting the driver against the non-use of! And of course, there was the whole child/small adult fatality flap. It came out during the course of the investigation into what went "wrong" with airbags that Claybrook & Company were warned about BOTH of these drawbacks during the crafting of the initial Supplmental Safety Device standard, but ignored and possibly suppressed that information.

It's not REALLY about what's best for the public, is it?

The Greens
The Greens with their gorebal warming canard must have loved all those planes not flying and decreasing the pollution and burning of fuels.

Let's see... that reduced those factors by, oh say, .0000001 and cost the airlines and American/Foreign people millions of dollars.

Doesn't that just sound like liberal financing and economics?

There's nothing like giving an irresponsible, petulant child your checkbook to manage.

"Liberals, the undeveloped variant of human species."

The light bulb folly is infuriating
but it is also one place where we don't have to submit to nanny control.

I went online and purchased about 50 of those 20,000 hour incandescent light bulbs. I intend to buy more. By the time I am finished, I figure I will have enough to keep my life well lite until I die.

We have time before the phasing out of these old faithful light bulbs. We can stock up on enough light bulbs to tell Big Brother to go
sc--w himself.

That's what I'm doing.

TOTALLY UGLY CFLs
DANNY: Interesting Case

Retired Headhunter from Boston with the Route 128 Engineering Mecca I found that the unemployed or underemployed professional engineers to be a very dangerous bunch. Namely, because they are generally bright and mathematically clear so their quantitative prospective are difficult to refute unless equally challenged. Now individually Danny you and whomever can go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and fill your shopping bags with CLFs - this is your freedom - but to manipulate legislation to impose this as a must on me and others for the reasoning of maximizing employment applications for the engineering fraternity is tyranny dressed in a grey suit and silk tie.

I will happily purchase CFLs at half the price - double the useable life expectancy - totally harmless to me family friends and when the frenzy cools to sober analysis and decision. Choices are GE, Phillips-Thomson and who else? This looks like a closed monopoly to me so when the competition base of suppliers open up to real choices I will get interested.

DANNY: the design of these CFL things.
Be a good engineer and totally redesign CFLs - THEY ARE UGLY!

CFL's Vs Sowell .............
Wow, if the illuminating companies could harness the energy your article provoked, we wouldn't need CFL's.
However, your article is errant in one aspect, the amount of Mercury in the bulbs is so small, See `How it is Made', that the fear for humans contamination is minimal. Not like the Mercury vapor laps, which I believe your staff used.
I have CFL's through out my house and in my Garage, live in Ohio. They work great and reduced my electric bill $6.00, WOW!!! A whole six bucks over a month, that will soon be nothing with rising fuel costs.
24 volt bulbs and lights give off an egual amout of light as the watt types but use only 24 volts DC. HOWEVER it costs a fortune to put in several converters per floor, one per room. to use this lighting with A/C current. LED's will probable add the same cost increase, but it is a price we pay to save money.
So why don't unions see it that way, when the demand an arm or leg from us.

Let's try this yet again:
The disposal steps listed by Dr. Sowell in his article are from the official guidelines on how to dispose of a broken CFL bulb. The guidelines are the result of fearmongering by environmental safety crusaders. The mandatory light bulb "upgrade" is the result of fearmongering by climate change crusaders.

Don't blame Dr. Sowell for the results of contradictory demagoguery.

Final poll report
By TH informal thread standards, it was a good response. Eight of 10 respondents affirmed that they reuse and recycle the plastic bags their retail purchases come home in. (The other 2 didn't say they don't, they just didn't specifically affirm that they do.)

Good job, TH rangers.


Danny, CFL $
CFL's use 75% less energy to produce light than an equivalent incandescant bulb. However, for northern climes,you will end up using more energy in your heating system to heat a home as a result of less heat generated by the CFL's. In a southern clime, the opposite is true, and CFL's will reduce cooling load. In all cases the amount of energy in residential applications is small, but the claim of 75% energy savings on your lighting bill is VERY MISLEADING, since you may increase energy use in other areas when changing to CFL's. We need to compare the total life cycle energy use. When this is used as the measure, then CFL's become less attractive, especially when you consider their higher sales price.

Also, why do CFL's cost so much more than incandescants? Because more energy is required to obtain the materials and manufacture them. Again, the claim of 75% energy savings is misleading, if not just plain false.

I make a consciencious effort to reduce energy consumption and have used CFL's in my home. I have been very unhappy with how long they last. Much less than the published life expectancy.

more law of unintended consequences
How about all the prople who had already made half of a round trip flight and ended up stranded or having to make other arrangements to get back home?

Plastic Bag Poll
--- well ---

I *was* going to say I use them as parachutes for chipmunks, but I decided against it.

Too horrible a concept even for my debauched tastes.

Unca Alby
Works for me. You make 9 out of 11 putting plastic bags to excellent secondary use.

A good lesson for all: don't stop checking those threads too soon.

New light bulbs
This is a classic case of the U.S being dictated to by a bunch of embecilic morons.
Come Nov. 6th, I'm voting against every imcumbent on the ticket---both local and national.

Since CFL's are so dangerous
Could I please start buying disposable needles without a card from a doctor? Who exactly does it hurt if I have a clean needle? eh? If I want to risk death from injecting drugs do I have to spread disease as well? Who does it help for me to die from hepatitis?

Political posturing trumps safety
Does any one doubt that doing good is better than appearing to do good?

Dr. Sowell presents us with a great example of why that is.

I wonder how many people and animals will be harmed by this new law as compared to continuing on with incandescent light bulbs? I know I've broken bulbs in my house many times...

The Truth About CFL Mercury
A CFL contains about 5mg of mercury (and several manufacturers are working to lower that). In comparison, a watch battery contains around 25mg, the average mercury thermometer contains about 500 mg, and older mercury thermostats can contain 6-18 grams of mercury.

The electricity produced to power an incandescent bulb from a coal-fired power plant will create 13.3 mg of mercury emissions.

Just another " Warning "
Its funny how CLF lights can help savings. Weather heating cost or globel warming. But how many people read they fine print. There are many warnings on the package the bulb comes in. One warning is to use a mask and gloves if the bulb brakes. Its funny how may people would rather have someone tell them what to use. Please always read the fine print. It make life so much easier.
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