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Tuesday, March 18, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Race and Politics
by Thomas Sowell
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There is something both poignant and galling about the candidacy of Barack Obama.

Any American, regardless of party or race, has to find it heartening that the country has reached the point where a black candidate for President of the United States sweeps so many primaries in states where the overwhelming majority of the population is white.

We have all seen the crowds enthralled by Barack Obama's rhetoric and theatrical style.

Many of his supporters put their money where their mouths were, so that this recently arrived Senator received more millions of dollars in donations than candidates who have been far more visible on the national stage for far more years.

That's the good news. The bad news is that Barack Obama has been leading as much of a double life as Eliot Spitzer.

While talking about bringing us together and deploring "divisive" actions, Senator Obama has for 20 years been a member of a church whose minister, Jeremiah Wright, has said that "God Bless America" should be replaced by "God damn America" -- among many other wild and even obscene denunciations of American society, including blanket racist attacks on whites.

Nor was this an isolated example. Fox News Channel has played tapes of various sermons of Jeremiah Wright, and says that it has tapes with hours of more of the same.

Wright's actions matched his words. He went with Louis Farrakhan to Libya and Farrakhan received an award from his church.

Sean Hannity began reporting on Jeremiah Wright back in April of 2007. But the mainstream media saw no evil, heard no evil and spoke no evil.

Now that the facts have come out in a number of places, and can no longer be suppressed, many in the media are trying to spin these facts out of existence.

Spin number one is that Jeremiah Wright's words were "taken out of context." Like most people who use this escape hatch, those who say this do not explain what the words mean when taken in context.

In just what context does "God damn America" mean something different?

Spin number two is that Barack Obama says he didn't hear the particular things that Jeremiah Wright said that are now causing so much comment.

It wasn't just an isolated remark. Nor were the enthusiastic responses of the churchgoers something which suggests that this anti-American attitude was news to them or something that they didn't agree with.

If Barack Obama was not in church that particular day, he belonged to that church for 20 years. He made a donation of more than $20,000 to that church.

In all that time, he never had a clue as to what kind of man Jeremiah Wright was? Give me a break!

You can't be with someone for 20 years, call him your mentor, and not know about his racist and anti-American views.

Neither Barack Obama nor his media spinmeisters can put this story behind him with some facile election year rhetoric. If Senator Obama wants to run with the rabbits and hunt with the hounds, then at least let the rabbits and the hounds know that.

The fact that Obama talks differently than Jeremiah Wright does not mean that his track record is different. Barack Obama's voting record in the Senate is perfectly consistent with the far left ideology and the grievance culture, just as his wife's statement that she was never proud of her country before is consistent with that ideology.

Senator Barack Obama's political success thus far has been a blow for equality. But equality has its down side.

Equality means that a black demagogue who has been exposed as a phony deserves exactly the same treatment as a white demagogue who has been exposed as a phony.

We don't need a President of the United States who got to the White House by talking one way, voting a very different way in the Senate, and who for 20 years followed a man whose words and deeds contradict Obama's carefully crafted election year image.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Race & Politics
This has been coming to a head for sometime now, as a black conservative I'll defend Obama on this one and say I admire and respect his run for the Presidentcy. With all the campaign missteps and controversy he's a heartbeat away from accepting the Democratic nomination.
Regardless of all the "BS", especially this latest Reverend Jeremiah Wright debacle, and lets face it, it is BS, Obama has waged a masterful candidacy. I'm truly proud.
That said, As I write this Senator Obama is going to address these issues later today which for his sake I hope clarifies the insane reverend mess.
Unlike Senator Obama I depise the rantings of the "good reverend" Wright like all the other "good reverend's before him they've been preaching this same fire-brand style racial, religous, political crap to the Black Community for a long time now. It's hurt the Black Community more than it has helped. The "good reverend" Wright's church have programs that aid the community and too bad you don't hear much of those over his insane rantings which suffice it to say the only difference between the "good reverend" Wright and the "good reverend" Ike is, one buys American automobiles and hates America, the other buys foreign automobiles and loves America.

Yah, whatever happened --
-- to Reverend Ike anyway?

I haven't heard about him in decades now!

Apply the same standard
One only need to apply the same standard to Obama that is applied to white Republicans. Suppose that McCain had been attending meetings in a white club that espoused hatred and racist comments about blacks for 20 years, say a club reminiscent of the KKK. Do you think that it would not have been front page news from day one and the media would have hounded him out of the race.

As a black libertarian...
and a long-time admirer of Thomas Sowell, I'm slightly torn on this.

African-Americans are generally more radical in our political views, particularly in terms of how we as a group view/interpret "America". And frankly, history has had a lot to do us being this way.

Still, just because we as a people have a legitimate historical explanation for having more radical views doesn't mean it's okay for us to excuse some of the most over-the-top and nutty points of view.

Personally, I cannot stand Sean Hannity. However, I must give him credit for speaking up years ago when he expressed his discomfort with, as he coined it, "this 'mainstreaming' of the Nation of Islam".

As a 42-yr-old black man, I have witnessed this "evolution". When I entered puberty, back in the 70s, I remember how most blacks (esp. in the South) were far more comfortable with the MLK worldview and far less comfortable with the NOI. Now, at times, it seems like the opposite.

It's not okay to say "I don't agree with Jeremiah/Farrahkhan on every issue", and it's not enough to say "Oh, I condemn him when he says 'x'. I only praise him when he says 'y'". Some people are GENERALLY and OBJECTIVELY problematic -- and we shouldn't be afraid to say so.

But too many of us are.

I cannot wait to hear Obama's speech. I honestly don't believe that he buys into Jeremiah's far-out ideas. Obama is trying to retain his "street cred" while appealing to all Americans. That's his dilemma. Not sure if he can overcome it.

OK, so now we know
that Obama is a liberal and a hypocrite. So where does that leave us? The lizard queen or the Constitution-shredder McCain. How depressing. We're becoming the Soviet Union.

Pieces of a puzzle
I wondered why he would not wear that flag lapel pin, I wondered why his well educated wife came across so angry, I wondered why he would not put his hand over his heart for the pledge, more importantly, why was he part of only a few politicians who would not agree to move the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Why did he make ridiclous statements like "No one has suffered more than the palestinians." A point that his preacher has said from his pulpit. No, I think obama and wright are on the same page as far as the country is concerned but obama hides it well in his quest for power.


Bill clinton was a liberal in office but he did not hate America, but now with the financial aid of socialists like George Soros, the next step for the neo-leftists is to get an America hater in the White house, a jew hater is icing on the cake.


I don't care what he says tommorow, it will be more of the same in his scam to get in the White house and usher in the end of America. I see they have sent Mr. wright into exile in Africa where the media can't get to him. More smoke and mirrors.

Obama
Come on, folks. I do not care what color you are.

I am a conservative and have been pointing out how very liberal and anti-American Obama and his Missus are for a while now. My view point is not racial. He is the most liberal man in Congress so there was never a chance I would vote for him. The 2nd reason is his plans for the defense of this country. I saw a 52 second viedo where his plans for the defense of the country were laid out. That was the scariest 52 seconds I have ever heard.

• He will pull out of Iraq as soon as possible.
• He will not allow any development of any space weapons
• He will slow down and new weapons development.
• He will propose a world wide treaty on nuclear arms.
• He will deactivate our ICMBs
• He will make sure our military spending does not contain any fat. This means he intends to disarm us. The world class bad guys will love him.

Here is the link to the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs.

Add the above to his socialist ideas on the economy and his $900,000,000,000 in new give away programs, his naïve foreign relations comments, factor in the connections to the Trinity Church of Christ, Reverend Wright, Louis Farrakhan and William Ayers of the Weatherman Underground, a domestic terror group, and you have a total package that should be a poster of what we do not need for the USA.

Any speech to “explain” the Trinity Church of Christ and the Reverend Wright is a waste of his breath and my time. Any person with an ounce of sense can see clearly that the Obama’s had to have been aware of the Hate America agenda of Wright and the church.


I would vote for Condi Rice, Colin Powell, J. C. Watts, and maybe Ken Blackwell for president. That is more white people than I can name right now.

Hey Bubba, excellent points and.........
Don't forget his association with brzezinski of jimmy carter fame who actually had a hand in the birth of islamo-facism, Oh you better be ready for a seperation of the American-Israeli partnership if Obama is president. Obama and his pastor are both anti-jew and anti zionism, his pastor even calling zionism a racist policy. It was a sad attempt at siphoning off "jesus Land" votes for obama. And before any of you libs say its all Israels fault for this Islamo-facism, please tell me why thailand, philipines, india, northern europe are having the same violence perpetrated against them or shut up.

Will the real Obamma
Please stand up. No he cant be held responsible for what the minister says. But for a person elected to US Senator to tolerate an establishment that propagates such hatred against the very country that elected him is outrageous. You want to talk about BS and make excuses for him fine. Thats REAL BS.

He should have
If in fact he truely despies that kind of thinking. He should have left that church a long time ago. If Wright was a true man of God he would have never espoused that type of thinking and behavior.

Trinity
So if Obama went there for 20 years and only gave $20,000 he sure doesn't tithe. Why are Liberals so eager to spend my money on the "common good" but don't give their own?
And of course, where was the main stream media...these Trinity tapes have been out there for years.

If Obama
doesn't agree with the majority of the racist venom spewed by his "reverend" of the race-focused "church" he has attended for 20 years, then why does he attend there? You can't tell me that he disagrees with most of Wright's nonsense but wants to sit under his tutelage for 20 years; it doesn't add up.

Since Obama is just as much "white" as he is "black," the fact that he wants to be seen only as a black man says he is indeed racist; he wants no recognition of being "white." If he wasn't racist he wouldn't downplay his "whiteness" - he would boast of both heritages. And the fact that everyone else sees him as only "black" also says everyone else who sees him that way are racists.

If Obama operated under the attitude that he is an American (not the stupid and divisive construct of "African-American") of mixed heritage, a member of the human race instead of a member of a constructed "race", he probably wouldn't be where he is. His playing the race card, being "black," is what gives him so much of the liberal support, because his platform is more rhetoric than substance.

Billary, Obamanation and McCain; all of them will bring great harm to this nation.

I'm really disapointed
in the black "conservative" commentators this morning.

Do any of you read the news? Do you KNOW what’s going on in Africa right now? I just don’t get it. There is probably no where else on the planet that you could live as well as you do right here in the good old USA that it seems you never tire of disparaging.

You should thank God that you live in this country. Shame on you. What all the people in this country need is a taste of some real trouble. We think we know about suffering? Come on! We’re all a bunch of spoiled brats, and that, my friends, is the real root of the problem.

Thank you, Doctor Sowell.
America's leading living philosopher!

That much is Black and White!

I wonder

I wonder if someone sat in Fred Phelp's "church" for 20 years, what their views would be on the world?

Never hear a negative comment, right?

Just wondering.

Sederoff, I don't get
your first paragraph. The other two seem to be aimed (or should be) at Jeremiah Wright.

The REAL Barak, the REAL Hillary ??
If you want to discover both Barak Obama's and Hillary Clinton's deepest ideological roots, simply Google Search each of their names with those of SAUL ALINSKY and ANTONIO GRAMSCI -- and their infamous "March Through The Institutions" method of assuming control over one and all ("one" meaning you and "all" meaning everyone and everything else, as well).

Jim Guirard -- TrueSpeak.org

Ohg Rea Tone on Rev. Wright
Many would make the Rev. Wright the center of a racial controversy - but I maintain that this is an issue of culture rather than race.... "Church today is somewhat of an enigma. There are so many different kinds of churches that represent so many different kinds of social, racial, and ethnic groups that it is increasingly difficult to define Christianity. It is, as well, increasingly difficult to define the nature of a pastor....."
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/03/18/reporting-on-reverend -wright-and-getting-it-wrong/

Where are they?
Probably am wasting my time asking this question. Most of those who follow TH at all are cynical enough by now to be way past this.

But I recall endless reporting, debating, and agonizing in the press over Mitt Romney's religious association just a couple of months ago. To the point he felt he had to address this singular issue directly in a speech.

Now it appears Sen. Obama has some troubling religious associations. Where are our fearless investigators and defenders of the objective truth in the MSM now? The ones who pride themselves and give themselves awards for going behind the scenes to get the story behind the story? Shameless hypocrites.

Thanks Doug, for that slap of REALITY!

You are absolutely SPOT ON!!!

If that doesn't wake up a lot of people, they're too dense to comprehend much of anything.




Packrat
EXCELLANT POINT!!!!!

Check out Paddy's Parodies
My Blog. The most recent about Obama: Ebony and Ivory.

Doug, write-in is possible
At least in US presidential elections, one can write in a candidate's name who is not even running.

(Though, a good question what happens if one writes in the name of a completely ineligible candidate)

Phoniness
Does Sowell agree 100% with everything people he admires ascribe to? Does he reject out of hand all that a person says because he objects to one thing that person says? The phoniness is palpable. We may be one country, but advocates of group-think we are not, nor do we benefit from politicians or pundits who play to this phony reality.

Obama Exposed
Obama is a America Hating, White Hating Liberal.

The Clintons have dishonestly spent months trying to make Obama "The Black Candidate" !

Little did we know, that he is not only "Black", But he is "French" too!

How do you say "Yes, We Can" in French???

Barack Obama
In his books, Barack Obama has told the story of the family into which he was born; about a father from Kenya whom he barely knew, who left when Barack was age 2, and about his white American mother from Kansas who along with his father was a college student at the University of Hawaii in Honolulu. By age 6, young Barack was already living in Jakarta with his mother and his Indonesian step father before moving back to Hawaii at age 10, to be raised by his maternal grandparents when his mother and her second husband divorced. His "birthright," says Senator Obama, was that he was given love, a good education, and hope.
Over the years Barack Obama had bonding experiences with white and black relatives and with Asian family members amidst an understandable struggle to find his own identity. The opportunity that Hawaii offered him to experience a variety of cultures in a climate of mutual respect became an integral part of his world view and is the basis for the values that he holds most dear.

Barack's Mother was an agnostic or an atheist and he was raised in a non religious atmosphere. Apparently Pastor Wright "brought him to Jesus" and Barrack Obama was always grateful to him for that. Wright also married Barack and Michelle. It’s not hard to understand how Barack Obama may have overlooked some of Pastor Wright's short comings given this situation much like one does with the flaws of a member of one’s own family. But Barack Obama has repudiated Wright's comments and clearly loves America. Just read the last page of his book "The audacity of Hope" published in 2006.


I see we have a lot of liberal
apologists today. I want one of ya'll to admit that if a Republican was attending a Neo-Nazi Church that preached hatred of blacks and Jews that you would be just as "understanding" that it wasn't them that was preaching the hate.

E Pluribus Unum
It is OK, or even, commendable for a Church to teach "Pride In Race"

It is Evil and Demonic for a Church to Teach Hatred of anyone or any Race!

Why is it a Crime in many Black Communities, "To be White" or "To Act White"?

Why are successful Conservative Black Men called sellouts and Uncle Toms by these Black communities?

Why is it, that when a Black Child does well in school, that other Black children ridicule his efforts and accuse him of "Acting White"?

Why is White America blamed for the large prison population of black men, most of whom are there for committing violent crimes against other Blacks.

I fear for the Black Community as a whole.

There are too many people out there Preaching Anti-White "Gangster" Black Nationalism.

We need less Jesse Jackson, Reverend Wright, and Al Sharpton - Preaching Victimization and Hate.

We need more Harry R. Jackson, Armstrong Williams, and Thomas Sowell - Preaching Unification and Personal Responsibility!

E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many, One

Dr. Sowell
You have such a brilliant brain, and you've been offered positions in various administration's cabinets. If John McCain actually wins the Presidency, and he asks you to be VP or Secretary of Something-or-other, would you consider it -- for the Country's sake -- PLEASE -- especially since you're an economist and the economy "is not my strong suit", according to McCain. Please, Dr. Sowell, our country needs your brain and your life experiences.

Mom in Wisconsin

With all due respect, refatsea
300 million of us can't trust which view Obama has chosen. You see, he can't bring himself to totally denounce this man and his rhetoric. It is totally wrong but he can't do it. So therefore he must stop the lies. He has accepted a generalizing hatred of whites in mass so can't possibly lead them. It will be exponentially more divisiveness and it has to stop. The Clinton's started it and Barack is just the black version.

digger on Obama
If you will subscribe to other paper news magazines or just look at them in your local book store you won't have these "suprises".

I have known for several months about the "Obama problem" because of those magazines.

I subscribe to 2 weekly magazines and a monthly magazine and have just subscribed to the paper version of Townhall daily whioch I am enjoying very much.

I still buy weekly magazines.

NELLIE
you and wright are sooooooooooo wrong.

guilt by association...
I gotta hand to you increasingly desperate repubs/cons. Now Sen. Obama is responsible for the words of Rev. Wright and because he has attended his church, that means he agrees with everything he says.

Let me ask you repubs/cons a question.

Religion in and of itself is controversial, no matter what particular faith you practice, therefore on any given sunday when you attend a church service do you agree with everything the pastor of your church is saying in his sermon?

To the libs
When you talk about radical or nutty views its about being caught in total hypocrisy, lies based on historical revision and corruption and even that is a pass (Shoo, Rezco,Jefferson).

However the conservatives whether ind/dem/repub are always generalized as far right when your called on it. When a man listens to a man of God say God Damn America for twenty years and is OK with it he can't be president. I don't care what kind of speech he gives.

Left Angle
Are you really so dull that you "don't get it?" Wright is Obama's mentor, by his own admission!

Obama's voting record and his intentions for our defense should scare you to death, if you love our country and care about our survival as a free people.

Obama's wife's "slip" was a revealing moment -- pay attention, please. This is our future at the critical point.

Media Bias

Listening to the darkside MSNBC this
morning. I was shocked to hear them still demanding Hillary get out of the race. They are saying the numbers will never add up for her. MSNBC needs to stop lying for Obama.
Florida may give only Hillary 1/2 of their delegates that would be over 100 delegates. They may have a do over in Michigan. Blue collar working class state. Looks real good for Hillary. Hillary will win in a landslide in Pennsylvania. Then you've got Indiana and I don't know all the other states after that. But Hillary is positioned very good to win the nomination.
MSNBC needs to stop the lying for Obama.

Jessie Junior
Jessie Jackson Jr. was on this station in Chicago this morning. He basically said all black churches preach this stuff. Blacks are just blowing off steam from all the racist hatred they experience the other 6 days of the week. This is a good thing to have a debate on.
I gotta say this would be like trying to have a conversation with al-Qaida. I don't believe you can reason with crazy's.

crafted image
The last line of the article says it all "carefully crafted election year image."
He has been mentored by Rev. Wright, so he says. Not politically, but spiritually. Oh, Really!!
Rev. Wright is VERY political and I am willing to bet that he has crafted Obama to look just like what America thinks she wants. Like his parishoners said,Rev. Wright is NOT STUPID. He can speak at least four languages and has college degrees. Don't you think he knows how to play the political game? You bet he does and he has transformed his little Obama (My Fair Lady anyone?) into exactly the image he wants everyone to see.

Yooper: you are a fool....
if you believe this bs has any traction...you repubs/cons are desperater and you know it...
you see a dem train getting ready run you over
come nov 08 and you will do ANYTHING to stop it...

Left Angle
Sorry, Dude, you are wrong. Dems may win, but I think Obama is "toast." Wait till the ads come out showing pictures of Obama cozy with Wright and the sound-overs of Wright G-damning America.

Left Angle
You are attempting to defend Obama by accusing conservatives of somehow wrongly using a “guilt by association” angle; as if the company a person keeps in no way reflects that person's character. However, you are sadly mistaken. The people you choose as friends and mentors provide an extremely direct insight into your character...other than your personal actions, there is probably no other character indicator more accurate and revealing. Remember, this isn’t some 'nobody' campaign staffer that Obama never met, this is his lifelong “spiritual advisor”. Hell, he even admitted he listened to his tapes in college when he couldn’t make it to the church (do you regularly and often spend your time listening to recorded speeches of people who you don’t deeply admire and respect?)

Guess you’ve never heard (or could never grasp) the old adage, “Birds of a feather flock together”...there’s a reason this is a very old cliché.

Icedog: er Pat Robertson?
the Christian Coalition is a major player in the republican party...if you want I'll publish you a LONG list of controversies and outlandish statements involving Rev. Pat Robertson..do I see repubs/cons disavowing him or turning down
his money$$$$ or the votes from the christian right?

yeah sure..BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER LMAO

Left Angle wrote:
"you repubs/cons are desperater and you know it...
you see a dem train getting ready run you over"

Are you kidding? By virtue of your perpetual focus on identity politics (and with the help of a braindead media), the Dems have managed to put forth two of the weakest candidates possible. Hillary has huge negatives and carries the baggage of her philandering, felonious husband's scandals, and very few want to return that period in our history. Not to mention an almost complete lack of accomplishment, other than quashing her husband's bimbo eruptions and turning a $1K investment into $100K.

Obama's an empty suit who speaks well but also has no record of accomplishment. His denials of knowing about Wright's racism and hatred of his own country never passed the smell test to begin with, and now the NYTimes reports that as early as April 2007, they agreed that he would have distance himself from Wright at some point in the campaign, proving he's lying to the American people.

I'm not a big fan of McCain but he'll do far less damage upon election than either of the affirmative-action candidates the Dems have put forth. My question is -- will your MDS (McCain Derangement Syndrome) kick in the day after his election or the day after his inauguration?

Obamanation
Great article as always Dr. Sowell.

How fascinating to see all the libs trying to spin this debacle. Would be very entertaining if it wasn't so frightening.

Left Angle
You are an apologist.

Besides we are just dancing to the tune from the fiddle of the left's creation.

Need an example?

Let's start with the forced ousting of Trent Lott.

I am not surprised though since the left gave a free pass to Bill Clinton with his racist mentor Fullbright.

You guys talk the talk on racism but you don't walk the walk.

chris: no I'm not kidding...
all this bs youre toting on obama and hillary is for repub/con consumption and thats the only people that are going to buy into it..and hell, you were not going to vote for them in the first place..you truly think this is gonna stop dems and independents from voting democrat? surely you jest... lmao

do you really think that any of this bs trumps a higgly unpopular republican incumbent in prez bush, his equally highly unpopular Iraq War, a weak economy, a disturbed electorate hungry for change and a new direction and finally a repub nominee that base conservatives detest?

get real dude...you guys are desperate for anything to stop the dem steamroller that is going to flatten you comenov 08.

Obama is a Closet Hater
Mr. Sowell has nailed this one completely--not that it is all that had to do. Nobody could be a member of this hate-filled preacher's church for 20 years, call the man a mentor and spiritual leader and not know what that man represents. Barack Obama has been revealed. There were hints of where he stood based upon his past voting record and his own wife's ill-advised comments against our country. This is the nail in the coffin. Anyone who believes we are better off with a president who despises our country is misguided. It is bad enough that this person is a U.S. Senator. Let's not make matters worse by promoting him to the next level.

Left Angle is only
practicing the normal behavior of the Demoncraps. After excoriating Republicans for belonging to clubs that discriminate against women and minorities he excuses a Dem for belonging to a club that actively preaches hate against whites and his own country.

It is the typical Demo response full of hypocrisy and the big lie.

If only he can get the media to repeat it for him, but this time they are busy ignoring the issue.

Why haven't we..
Why haven't we heard from Jesse Jackson on this? Why haven't the MSM consulted him on this?

Ohg Rea Tone
This is an issue of a culture developing based upon race.

Just as you cannot have a country within a country and still remain a country, I can't help but wonder if we can have this type of sub culture continue to develop based upon historical lies and remain a country.

Vic2...
see my response above.

Left Angle
The conservative base may not like McCain, but they will come out in droves to defeat a man whose mentor asks God to damn America or prevent a return of the Clintons to the White House, whichever the case may be.

You aren't seeing it yet, but the Dem train has already derailed. Heck, it had already derailed when the only three candidates left were the two affirmative-action candidates and a shyster, channels-dead-babies-in-court lawyer.

Sederoff...
Who are the black conservative commentators you're referring to?

The Real Story
The real story is Obama still getting 40-50% of the Democratic votes. The Democrats are really showing their white hating, America hating colors.

Kos IS the Democratic party!

A true man of God would NOT say
"G-damn" America or anything else.

Maggie, Left Angle
Maggie, I think you are wrong on HRC's chances. I tried out the slate.com delegate tool and HRC would have to win 64% in the remaining states to over take his lead. I'm not doubting that the media is totally in the bag for BHO, but I think they have a point concerning the delegate math.

Left Angle, Why can't you agree that Wright has a problem and we are judged to a certain degree by those we choose to associate with? When you use Republican examples to show that this is the case don't you recognize that it is just as true for liberals. It is just honest evaluation.

MAJGross

Obama is not the Manchurian Candidate
It's time to give it a rest. It made the necessary headlines it was suppose to make, to slow Obama down in hopes of giving Hillary a run for the nomination. It's a shame Trinity United Church is being sacricied along with Obama solely for Hillary Clinton. You know this, talk radio knows, Fox knows this, and Hillary knows this too. After the Presidential elections are over with, who will address the Trinity United Church and explain to them it was just politics, no harm done. Who will tell the membership of Trinity United Church, that they aren't really looked upon as racist and anti American's, because they too stayed members of the Reverends church for as long as Obama did and longer. If under the surface of Obamas lies some sleeper cell well planted by Reverend Wright to promote racism and hatred for this country, then the guilty by association rule is being applied to Obama for one reason and one reason only. To destroy Obama for life. Isn't that what Hillary does so well, destroy people's carrers for life. Isn't the tactics used on Obama now, the same tactics the Democrats use on Republicans when they want them to resign. In reaching out to Hillary, in hopes of her winning the nomination, the Conservatives are doing to Obama what the Democrats have been doing to the Republicans for years.

Pastor Wright a Christian?
Unless my understanding of a christian is all wrong,I don't see how you could call a person that uses the lords name in vain,preaches hate continually a christian.A charlatan perhaps,but not a christian.

chris a response...
it wont matter...conservatives are in a no win situation...none of that stuff you mention on
hillary or obama is gonna change the bad political enviroment for republicans...it's not gonna change the vote of the dems and independents are heavily leaning dem...the dems have twice the money of repubs...

and McCain? he sides with democrats more than he does republicans...

so yeah..get go out and vote for him..lmao

Obama
Liberals are funny. Most of them would impale any conservative candidate who sat in a church for twenty years where racist anti-American dogman was preached (even if just once), yet they are falling over themselves to defend Barack Obama in this instance. The man was married by the racist preacher and had his kids baptised by the loser. It is now clear why Obama would not put his hand on his heart during the National Anthem or wear an American flag symbol. This guy is a liberal's dream--and American-hating, terrorist-loving, anti-capitalist. They would defend this dude if he was caught red-handed drowning puppies. The spin would be that there are too many homeless pets in the world. Wake up, before the pied piper walks everyone off the cliff.

Obama - Pied Piper
Liberals are funny. Most of them would impale any conservative candidate who sat in a church for twenty years where racist anti-American dogman was preached (even if just once), yet they are falling over themselves to defend Barack Obama in this instance. The man was married by the racist preacher and had his kids baptised by the loser. It is now clear why Obama would not put his hand on his heart during the National Anthem or wear an American flag symbol. This guy is a liberal's dream--and American-hating, terrorist-loving, anti-capitalist. They would defend this dude if he was caught red-handed drowning puppies. The spin would be that there are too many homeless pets in the world. Wake up, before the pied piper walks everyone off the cliff.

What about Teddy?
VIC2 writes: Tuesday, March, 18, 2008 10:26 AM
Left Angle is only
practicing the normal behavior of the Demoncraps. After excoriating Republicans for belonging to clubs that discriminate against women and minorities he excuses a Dem for belonging to a club that actively preaches hate against whites and his own country."

VIC, wasn't Teddy K in an exclusive male club. Not sure if drowning a female was a requisite to join but I laughed when as soon as it came to light he renounced it. What big fat PU**Y. If he had any balls he would have just said "so what, I'm in a club that's men only, who cares." Instead, he starts pandering like a little panzy. I'm starting to think liberalism is nothing more than simulated male castration.

Left Angle - you forgot the 11 percent approval rating for Congress in your list...oops, that's a democratic congress...strike from the record please.

maverick
Conservatives aren't doing a thing to Obama --Wright is doing it to him, and by virtue of his long, close relationship with Wright, Obama is doing it to himself.

Oprah had the sense to leave that church years ago over Wright's hatred and racism. If Obama is so smart and truly disagreed with Wright, why didn't he leave years ago? And why did he allow his children to be exposed to that despicable message for years?

/hint: despite his public pronuciations of disagreement intended to maintain his national political viability, he agrees with Wright

Breaking NEWS
I think Ahmadenajad has found his 12th IMAM

May GOD help THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and for all you LIBS THE UNITED KKK OF AMERICA

McCain and Clinton?
'We don't need a President of the United States who got to the White House by talking one way, voting a very different way in the Senate...'. And who had carefully crafted election year image.

Give me a break. This sounds like every politician who has been elected in my lifetime. The anti-American rhetoric is something else.

But my goodness, may I be looking at Clinton and McCain, neither of whom has pretended to be something other than what the are? They are both more liberal than I like, but I would have to give HRC the nod. I could not trust McCain.

Left Angle
Keep telling yourself that. The last polls I saw had McCain beating both Obama and Hillary.

LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT
The Libs invented political correctness, and are now caught on their own petard.

A white politician would NEVER get away with association with ANYONE who made remarks similar (if opposite) to these. REGARDLESS of 'context' or even if these were only a 'few' sermons out of thousands.

You can't have it both ways. You are NEVER open to explanations of context or ignorance when a WHITE MALE is associated with a racist, sexist, or anti-semite.


tommy
LMAO..."This guy is a liberal's dream--an American-hating, terrorist-loving, anti-capitalist. They would defend this dude if he was caught red-handed drowning puppies. The spin would be that there are too many homeless pets in the world."

True. Extremely depressing, but so very true.

Right wing Anti-American preachers
Frank Schaeffer, son of highly influential Religious Right figure Francis Schaeffer, writes (h/t FPL-Dan):

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.
He goes on to chronicle his father's long history of extreme "America-hating" statements, ones which never caused Republicans to repudiate him, and says: "Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits."

Yet Schaeffer, like hordes of similar, America-hating white Christian ministers, are celebrated as cherished figures among the very same right-wing faction feigning such outrage and offense over Wright's far more mild statements. White, right-wing Christian evangelical rage against America is understandable, respectable, and noble. Liberal black Christian anger towards America is scary, subversive, and despicable.

There's more to come.


Dr Sowell keep shining your light
Guilt by acquaintance is not reasonable. Judging an association of persons having common interests and goals are reasonable. Humans have a need to belong to community - if they cant't find where they fit in, they will join "Garden of the Month" or "Bird Seed of the Month" or something. Interest generally wanes unless one profits from the association by prominence or fulfilling a personal or collective goal. Defending ones associations is a natural reaction because they reflect your aspirations, purposes and what one believes in.

Selecting a trusted counselor and guide is serious business. Ones character and value system are reflected by that choice.

Obama and anti Christian words.
Christian religion is one of love. Love your neighhor as yourself. The minister is using the Lords name in vain, on the pulpit no less. What he says is not only racist but many of the things he says are factually untrue. When will we acknowledge that Black people can be racist too?

Maverick
This revelation about the pretend-pastor and Barack Hussein Obama is not just a headline,it is a serial.It will never end.Wright can go into exile on Mars,and he will STILL be an "issue"

As for the Trinity Building (I hesitate to call it a church),remember the Bible passage where Jesus went to the market and chased out the 'money-changers'?Well,He should go into Trinity and chase out the 'hate-mongers'.

This is not just a "Democrat-Democrat" thing between BHO and HRC...it is an AMERICAN thing.A sleeping giant has been awakened.He will not be easily contained.

Left Angle
Just curious...let's say on our next election day, Obama wins the presidency....if you closed your eyes and tried to picture the scene on that very day, what do you think we would see in the homes of Islamic fanatics, black supremacy groups, anti-Semites and other groups of America-haters? Do you believe we would we see disappointment or exhilaration? Please answer the question (no more deflection please) and be honest.

Left Angle
Before you buy the victory party supplies...

You might want to think a few things through. The Dems ran on ending earmarks- they've increased them. The Dems ran on ending corruption- they haven't. They ran on getting the US out of Iraq- they haven't. They ran on being bipartisan and getting things done- they haven't.

They ran on "getting Bush"- the truth has been revealed, they had no real case against him to start with an knew it. They lied.

Our economy is in trouble. A big part of that trouble is energy prices which are a direct result of our dependency- yet it is Dems that have stopped new nuke plants, oil exploration/drilling, refineries, clean coal plants, and even windfarms.

Do you know what the answer of the Democratic Party is to these problems? RAISE TAXES, INCREASE GOVERNMENT SPENDING...

It would almost be worth the suffering to have the Dems win control and try these policies. It could easily finish the Democratic Party (actually the American Sociailist Party if truth in advertising were required) as we now know it. For all the casting about of the label "Nazi" to describe conservatives, it is the Dems that believe in a command economy very much like Hitler's ideal.

Right wing Anti-Americans II
You should read this Walkerney>

Neither Jerry Falwell nor Pat Robertson ever retracted or denounced their view that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by doing things to anger God. John Hagee continues to believe that the City of New Orleans got what it deserved when Katrina drowned its residents and devastated the lives of thousands of Americans. And James Inhofe -- who happens to still be a Republican U.S. Senator -- blamed America for the 9/11 attacks by arguing in a 2002 Senate floor speech that "the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America" because we pressured Israel to give away parts of the West Bank.

Obama is not black
I am tired of everyone saying that Obama is black when he has 50% white and 50% black blood in him. To say he is black is a throw back from those days that a drop of black blood makes you black. Furthermore, He was raised by a White mother and her white parents in Hawaii -- where black racism does not figure into the culture. He does not even speak of his mother and mother's parents who raised him, sacrificed for him and gave him the values he has now. Fact is he chose to shun his mother, grandparents and all that he was raised to be in order to embrace "his blackness" in order to do what??????? Barack Hussain Obama chose to embrace the Father who abandaned him and the values of Black Libertion Theology (i.e. racism, prejudice, and hate, as well as socialism), which is antithical to all that his WHITE Mother and WHITE grandparents raised him to be. The fact that he turns his back on his Whitenss and his White Mother and Grandparents says all I need to know about Barack Hussain Obama.

jr: 11% congress approval...
so you telling me that repubs dont make up nearly HALF of that Congress and dont get any credit for that approval rating? get real...lol

if you truly believe this issue is gonna stop desms or independents from voting from voting for
obama should he win the dem prez nom, you are a fool...repubs/cons are desperate and grasping at straws for anything to give them hope from getting steamrolled come nov08..

like i said go ahead and vote for McCain.
he sides with dems more often than repubs and push come to shove i could live with him as prez..lol

Robert
Stepping in again where you were not invited.
Fascism and religion does not work...you should know...

We are a people
who has dismissed God in everything we do.

He used to be the ONE force which set our course.

Each morning we began our day by consulting HIM.

Ech hurdle througout any given day would automatically bring us front and center to HIM.

We faced Him willing to understand.

We prayed to HIM before we bedded down for a good night's sleep.

That way we didn't have to spend the night tossing and worrying what the next day would bring.

We were a people wrought on principle.

The greatest American generation relied heavily on HIM.

We were small, by comparison. I met Senator John Glenn on a flight to California. I imagined the awe of his shot into the universal sky, as he and his wife, spoke.

Individuals believe themselves to be bigger now. That universal sky appears so much smaller to the ego of a nation who has lost the hope of discovering great things beyond our reach, because it appears that everything is within our reach.

I am voting for Obama, because he shares MY personal desire to regain what our greatest generation became so great on.

It was not the evidences before them.

It was the dream of what could be.

Whether Obama was pink or blue, it wouldn't at all matter.

We share the same discust for where this nation has led itself, today.

I am willing to roll up my sleeves for my America. And to condemn every thing that resists such a feit.

Because the ones who will speak above the murmers of the Godless, will be left to tell the story to the wheat.





My Hate Beats Yours!
I'm confused. If my hate beats your hate, what's left of me afterwards? Who can, or do I hate now? Is there any enjoyment in my daughters' first words? How about my sons' first little hand-print in clay? Do I ever see the beauty of a magnificent sunrise or sunset? If I'm dedicated to ensuring my hate beats yours, does that leave anything else? Who can I trust or confide in other than other haters?

Obama's Nonsensical Nuance
Mr. Obama, there was no way out the hole you have been in for 20 years sir. The fact that you could dress well, speak well, and crawl out of that hole to go to work all week and then go back into that hole every Sunday MEANS YOU BELONG IN THAT HOLE.

The hole of RACISM. Whether you want to call it reverse racism, class warfare, etc. It's still racims Mr. Obama. YOUR MAN OF THE CLOTH has preeched RACISM from the pulpit. To stand in front of us now after your hand has been "irrevocably" caught in the cookie jar of racial hate and to preech to us that your a man of temperance is LAUGHABLE!! You have been busted Mr. Obama.

sjt18/Icedog
sjt18:

the reason that democrats cant get anything done in Congress is because of Republican "obstructionism" and the fact that they dont have a 60 vote supermajority in the senate. anyone who knows anything about how congess works knows that .

Dont you find it ironic that republicans are using the exact sametactics that dems used in the minority to stall or killed legislation they dont like? the only difference is repubs/cons called what dems were doing "obstructionism" now it's "pricipled opposition"..lol

Icedog:

I think you would see neither one..I think you would see puzzlement. If you think Obama or Hillary as president isnt going to defend the U.S. interest abroad, you are indeed a fool.
you need to stop buying into dumb stereotypes and rnc propaganda.

Right wing Armegeddon connection
Obama has been vilified for being Anti-Israel. Yet, let's look at the right wing's allegience to Israel again.

Israel will be destroyed at or before Armegeddon and all the Jews and other non-believers will go to hell while believers are raptured. The right wing's support of Israel has the agenda of hurrying up the coming of the rapture, with the concurrent destrustion of Israel. Who needs friends like these.

Can this really be said to be pro-Israel when the intent is to send all Jews living in Israel to hell at the same time?

And where does Hagee, McCain's advisor, stand on his support to Israel.

And shouldn't the right wing's intention to hasten Armegeddon, with the consequent destruction of the United States, be considered Anti-American?

Based on its Armegeddon strategy the right wing certainly should not claim that it puts America first. Armegeddon comes first, before their country, for right wing Americans' doesnt' it?

QUESTION TO ALL
If Obama says he shouldnt be held resonsible for what his Pastor has said or done over the past 20Yrs then what makes them think that the White people should be held responsible for what happened almost 150 yrs ago


SLAVERY

Proud Liberal
Do yourself a favor and read Schaeffer for yourself IN CONTEXT!

Yes, he, and I for that matter, lament(ed) the moral state of our nation. Moral decay WILL sink a nation 100% of the time. Likewise, it is easy to recognize that left-wing gov't policies including economic ones are promoting the moral decline of our society. Only the willfully blind don't see it.

Yes. We need a revolution. Even our founders didn't dismiss the idea that America could one day again come to a point of having to overthrow its gov't.

Schaeffer was probably a little too political... at the same time, he motivated Christians to stop laying down while the left used the power of gov't to trample them and their rights. The left ran unopposed for about 40 years displacing and disempowering the church in American society. The church, its ministries, its charities, and its moral influence were progressively and quite aggressively replaced with humanism and its ancillaries... philosophies largely alien to the ideals of the writers of our Constitution. If you hadn't picked up on it before... that's precisely why liberals have to demand a "living constitution" and supremacy of the judiciary. When the words don't say what liberals need them to say... and they know they can't get legislation... it is absolutely imperative to the liberal cause that definitions be malleable... and that judges be empowered to disregard any legislation that gets in the way.

Now I know how repugnant to a liberal the idea that Christians would resist that godless agenda... but you'll have to learn to live with it.

FWIW, Schaeffer and most of those influenced by him will still say that the gospel and changes in human hearts are the only means for truly saving our society from collapse.

Left Angle
You have apparently mistaken me for someone who thinks obstructionism is a bad thing.

I wish there were 100 times more of it.

Our gov't was never intended to be as large or powerful as it is. Anything that slows the growth of gov't or cause the populace to be more disgusted with gov't "solutions" is a good thing.

However, Dems seem to be getting their earmarks done... and they have promised that they'll get tax cuts rolled back.

What?
Just listened to Obama's speech.

Sorry Senator,but I would not insist on the fact that Wright is a mentor.

He stated that we have all heard thins from our spiritual leaders that we do not agree with.

Not quite.

If I ever heard a priest saying "God Damn America" I would be on my feet and out the door.
My next step would be to contact his superiors and have him removed.

O'Vomit should win
I will agree with the Left Dangles and the Pounded Liberals on one score, although for different reasons. The best thing that can happen is for O-Vomit to win the nomination and the election. The next best thing would be for Shrillary to win. The worst thing would be for McLame to win. You see the Demons are going to have a veto proof congress after this election and they deserve O-Vomit to feed them all the commie stuff they can handle. It will be just as bad if not worse than LBJ.

After a year of that the heat on the pot will be turned up on high and the boiling apathetic frogs that keep voting for people like this will finally realize their folly. The RINOs will be run out of the Republican Party and anyone who even had a small amount of sense will abandon the Communist(D) Part. After the 2010 election there will no longer be a Democrat Party.

Too bad that it will take loss of the ME and another depression to do it.

Proud Liberal ignorance
Not that being accurate with the facts matters to a "proud liberal" but... the others might be interested.

I've never seen the view you posted about Israel's future from anyone including Hagee. On the contrary, those with a premillinial/pre-tribulation view believe that the church will be taken out as the next major fulfillment of prophecy. Not surprisingly, humanists will see their absence as a good thing. Many believe that a single, very charasmatic world leader will step on the stage and bring "world peace" while man celebrates his own glory. In the midst of that peace, a conflict focusing on Israel will occur. The powers of the world will converge on Armegeddon to destroy Israel once and for all. It is at this point Christ will return in power and glory, defeat the Antichrist and his armies, then set up a 1000 year kingdom from Jerusalem.

Rather than final destruction, it is an interpretation that leads to a final redemption and fulfillment of OT covenants for Israel.

Democrat Train
Left Angle says the Democrat train is gonna run us over.I wouldn't count on it.If it does,the way it looks now,BHO may not be the engineer.....

The wrong road kill
So in obamas speech, he justifies rev wright and throws his white grandmother under the bus by calling her a racist. He throws the rev a lifeline while he is in exile in africa hiding from the media. Continuing his enabling the revs anti-American, anti-white and anti-semetic views, cleaning his velvet black Jesus portrait while saying "Israel is a dirty word". Twenty years and who knows how many dollars later in the hate factory. The only thing I learned from the speech is that obama is a flip-flopper, first he said he was never in the church when the rev used that language and today he said he was. He found out about the video tapes, slow learner. What an arrogant jerk to say that whites have an untrained ear when it comes to black churches, he almost makes you want to have a conversation with a fake christian like kerry or hillary after the past three weeks of garbage.

How many of us, writing here at TH,
could visit ANYONE -- a pastor, a friend, a relative -- anyone for 20 years on a regular basis, maybe once or twice a month, and not detect even the slightest hint of anti-American hatred and abject racism? I can interact with a person for two or three times and tell if that's a person I want to know more about, or if it's a person who is not someone I care to associate with any further.

But apparently, the man we're thinking about electing as a President cannot do that? Good grief. Are we electing Mr. Potato Head as President? Maybe we should. Maybe Mr. Potato Head would display more judgment than Barack Obama has over the last 20 years.

At least potatoes don't lie. Nor do potatoes think that Americans are stupid. But then again, if we elect Barack Obama as President....

Proud Liberal
You obviously know nothing about Francis Schaeffer. Try reading his books before you criticize him.

rowly: trash talk...
look, i'm just having fun with all this..

lets just say, Its predicted by the experts that this election cycle is definitely in favor of democrats to win the potus and maintain control of Congress by adding more seats with possibly getting a veto proof majority. that's not to say things cant change between now and nov08, because they most assuredly can, but imho i doubt it.

Prez Bush has done immeasurable damage to the Republican brand and I dont think it will be repaired in 6 months or so. besides McCain being detested by the conservative base and bush's unpopularity will be too much for him to overcome. People see McCain as "Bush lite" and that isnt a compliment.

But Good Luck..

HUSINE
THOSE WHO DEFEND THE NAMESAKE OF THE DICTATOR THAT THIS NATION SO ELEQUENTLY OVERTHREW SESERVE THE GOVERNMENT THEY ARE TRYING TO BRING INT EXISENCE. CREEPS ARE ATTRACTED TO CREEPS. JUST LIKE TUMBLE BUGS ARE ATTRAVCTED TO THEIR FOOD SUPPLY.

The Bottom Line
Hillary Clinton vs. Barack Obama = President John McCain.

Who would have thunk it? In a year when the Dems should have strolled into the White House the party implodes into an orgy of race and gender politics.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

As the commercial says, "I'm lovin' it."

Vic-Lolo-IceDog
Barack Hussein Obama is running a Typical, Liberal, Campaign:

Talk to The Center.

Run to The Right.

GOVERN from THE LEFT!

Georgetwin
He's running the typical Demo campaign alright. When caught red-handed lie.

Left Angle
You are right about President Bush having done damage. His inability to communicate about Iraq and unwillingness to try hurt a great deal. The Admin's weak response to attacks did harm.

The biggest thing though was the perception that he had abandoned the conservatisim that got him elected. The Republicans didn't lose because they were too conservative or did what they had promised... They lost because their policies and spending looked too much like Dems.

Nancy Pelosi and the radical left of the Dem party are working hard though to undo the damage Bush did. Their policies will make the Republicans look like statesmen by comparison.

Do you know why the country voted the GOP in to start with? Do you know why we seem to prefer divided gov't? Because there is still something in our national conscience that just doesn't trust centralized power.

If the GOP can make itself believable as the party of small gov't again... they'll make a comeback.

If McCain is Bob Dole redux...
--
...(which is to say a brain-dead "Rockefeller Republican" Senate wheelhorse who wouldn't recognize a moral principle if it took form as a T. rex and bit him in half), then Mocha Marvin is Jimmy Carter all over again.

Ingratiating image with absolutely poisonous doctrines lurking beneath that slick surface.

Maybe it's time for the American electorate to get a good, agonizing dose of pure Democrat Party stupidity right up the kiester again.

Remember, we couldn't have gotten Ronald Reagan in 1980 if we hadn't been treated to the absolute God-awfulness of Jimmy Carter through four agonizing years of political and economic "malaise."

Barack Hussein Obama is absolutely horrible, no doubt about it.

But so is a whopping big dose of castor oil.

--

I'm afraid Left Angle may be right
Left Angle writes: Tuesday, March, 18, 2008 12:07 PM

"Prez Bush has done immeasurable damage to the Republican brand and I dont think it will be repaired in 6 months or so. besides McCain being detested by the conservative base and bush's unpopularity will be too much for him to overcome. People see McCain as "Bush lite" and that isnt a compliment."

Yeah left angle, you may be right. The only thing keeping McCain afloat is the the dem party. With all his faults, 6.4 million last I counted,the fact he is very viable is a testament to the dem party. What should scare dems most, and I am being sincere, is that there is 6 months to go. This is only the beginning. As, for McCain, he is bound to do something idiotic and pick Grahamnesty for VP.

1. Does anyone, regardless of affiliation, feel that wanting Hillary in the Oval office is like saying you wish bush could get a third term? just curious.
2. Also, would you describe the shrub as a pseudo-republican or a closet liberal?


I agree with Brit Hume et al...
It was a very well-crafted and well-delivered speech. But will it overcome his problems? I doubt it.

Still, the saddest thing is this: Obama touched on something that America has needed to deal with forever. Namely, an honest, comprehensive conversation about its racial issues.

"What an arrogant jerk to say that whites have an untrained ear when it comes to black churches"

Favorless, believe it or not, your post, in many ways, demonstrates the lack of understanding that Obama spoke about.

If that's the only message you got out of Obama's speech, I have to assume you didn't listen -- at best.

The way I see it? If I am willing to understand/tolerate certain aspects of and motivations behind white racialists and its sometimes-sympathizers (which I have been), there shouldn't be any problem with whites understanding some of what Obama was talking about. Even if you reject it on a personal level, as I do.

Smear Job by the media
Obama’s pastor has been taken out of context, and I challenge any poster to state what Rev Wright has said that has been racist. Sowell is the demagogue for further smearing the pastor and his church and Obama. I noticed Sowell gives tremendous credibility to Sean Hannity and Fox news as if Fox news and Sean Hannity are objective experts on this subject, what a moron.

As for the “God damn America” statement, Wright was specifically referring to the United States refusal to place sanctions on the racist South African government, America’s past weapon proliferation in the Middle East and the preemptive war and preemptive bombing that America has, and is currently engaging in. When Wright said “God damn America”, he was saying it because America did these things, NOT as an overall repudiation of the country, but of course sound bites and false perceptions are what push the agenda in this country, not facts.

If this country is to ever improve, we have to get out of this stubborn and delusional mindset that causes us to demonize anyone for criticizing America for some of the immoral things the US has done. America is no where near perfect; the black experience in America is a prime example of American imperfection, Rev Wright was merely in his own inflammatory way pointing these things out. Please get over it.

Supreme Irony
To see the Democrats use the color of a man's skin or the gender of person to try to win a political seat actually turn around and bite them in the very place they thought would help them is fun to watch. Race baters being defeated by their own weapon. There really is a God.

net observer
I don't frankly want to hear about what Obama would do to "fix" the countries problems. I want to hear that he'll do the Chief Executives job and protect the individual (NOT GROUP) rights of every American in rigid accord with the Constitution.

Unfortunately as SJ Doc said, there doesn't seem to be a likely candidate that will do that left in the race.

Unless McCain does something pretty incredible, I will vote 3rd party this time. Yes, I know that will help the Dems but again SJ Doc makes sense... 4 years of liberal Dems could start another 20 year dominance by small gov't conservatives/libertarians.

Anthony
When white supremicists come up with conspiracy theories about how blacks are plotting to take over the country... is that racist? When racists blamed blacks for unemployment and various other problems, was that racist?

Wright's rhetoric was more over the top than any statement I ever saw attributed to David Duke. If you can watch those clips and deny that he was expressing utter and total contempt for whites in America then you are probably part of the problem rather than the solution in spite of your grand words.

Obama's politics are the real issue.
Those who point out that the real issues are Obama's political record and his worldview are on target.

The media, and other liberal shills, are crying crocodile tears in order to keep race front and center. The would like to keep Obama's radical leftist orientation and political record out of the view of the American people. The Markxists always taught thier candidates to lie, lie, lie until they got into office. Today's Markxists have learned the lesson well. Both Clinton and Obama are dedicated neo-Markxists. The Commie and the Kid...not any real difference!

Obama's politics are the real issue.
Those who point out that the real issues are Obama's political record and his worldview are on target.

The media, and other liberal shills, are crying crocodile tears in order to keep race front and center. The would like to keep Obama's radical leftist orientation and political record out of the view of the American people. The Markxists always taught thier candidates to lie, lie, lie until they got into office. Today's Markxists have learned the lesson well. Both Clinton and Obama are dedicated neo-Markxists. The Commie and the Kid...not any real difference!

Destruction of truth
"The road to tyranny, we must never forget, begins with the destruction of the truth."

We are asked to believe that Obama didn't know that Wright was spewing racist comments. Obama is relegated to either the moronic or obfuscating the truth by his own words.

"I ask that all Americans demonstrate in their personal and public lives... the high ethical standards that are essential to good character and to the continued success of our Nation."

BTW, both of these quotes came from Bill Clinton.

AT; how about you explain to
the rest of us how you can say GD America in any context and it be OK.

Left Angle
Neither party has the ideal candidate.All have baggage.Some have bags heavier than others.Also,sometimes when you win,you lose.

Bush is not running,you know.McCain has not been Republican for a long time.One has nothing to do with the other.We will all have to live with whoever is president,anyway.

Not once
in any of Obama's speeches have I seen him chastise the black community for the biggest factor holding them back... illegitimacy.

The one factor that is always directly correlated with poverty and social ills is illegitimacy and the absence of the father in the home.

Of course it is much easier to blame whites who had nothing to do with those decisions than to say unpopular things to the base, huh?

Why if illegitimacy and sexual immorality were major themes instead of blame America... Rev Wright might lose followers.

Obama's Speech


A lot of pretty words and lifted terms,

some truths
re: politicians and the media.

seemed sort on details and substance, and no I have not read the transcript, just listened to the speech on TV.

AT
"whites invented the AIDS virus to get blacks"
"whites invented crack cocaine to imprison the black man" I, as a white man, had nothing to do with either of these. Neither have I ever owned a slave. Noone in my family ever owned a slave. Prior to myself, noone in my family ever owned a business or served in a supervisory role over other workers. We came from Ireland and Scotland in the 1920's. We were heavily discriminated against at first. We got over it and worked hard. We got our kids to college in the third generation without special consideration or gummint grants. We achieved on our own, not by moaning and crying about how unfair it is. Stop apologizing for a racist. You make me sick; you decry racism constantly, but when it is committed by a black against whites, why, then it is A-ok. Hypocrite.

Church or Political Forum?
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up or not, but why isn't anyone looking into this church's tax exemption status as its pastor is abusing the pulpit for his friend's political gain?
Last time I checked, churches are limited in their political scope because of their tax exemption status.
There must be a tax expert out there who can clarify this for me.

Anthony Thomas
Perhaps you would like to join Wright on his trip to Africa.
You will get to see first hand how the original BLACK slave traders really love their brothers. Start in Kenya.

Left Angle
I have left numerous churches when the pastors started preaching sedition and bigotry from the pulpit. In fact, recently when the Anglican church started worshipping sex instead of God, I left that church on doctrinal matters although I once loved that church dearly.

To answer your silly question, yes, I frequently disagree with what others say. And when they continue to say what is evil and despicable, without apology, I do not get up and stamp my feet and cheer and applaud. I get up and walk out, and I do not come back. When I get home, I write a sternly worded letter of resignation stating exactly why I will never countenance that type of behaviour in a friend, a boss or a pastor, and send it off.

Obama wishes to live his life balancing on the knife edge, appearing to choose neither Black nor White; no doubt he saw what happened when O.J. chose to be White and then had to trust his very life to lawyers who convinced him that it was Choose Black or Die. Now he would not be Black and he cannot be White.

Obama made that choice ages ago, and so did his wife. Now he is going to be forced to make that choice public. Or perhaps he already has and is hoping you did not notice. Lots of you are still trying to pretend that the siren sounding behind you is not the cops and the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train.

Good luck with that. Let me know how it works for you.

Anthony Thomas

There is no reason why the USA should have put sanctions against South Africa. Even during the worst years of Apartheid more black Africans were migrating to South Africa, legally and illegally, than any other country on the African continent. Apartheid not withstanding, South Africa was and is the freest and most prosperous country on the African continent.

This is not to say that Apartheid was a moral or pretty thing, but what was (and is) the alternative on the African continent for a black African? The black brotherly love of an Idi Amin? Idi Amin loved his black brothers and sisters so much, he ate them for breakfast. Go live in Rwanda? Live in Darfur? There are different levels in hell. Sorry but, South Africa's Apartheid was only the first rung in the deep, deep, hell which is Africa.

It would seem Sen. Obama
used his church for a stepping stone into Chicago politics. Unfortunately he also subjected his wife and kids to the rantings of a racist hate monger. What does that say about his character and judgment? If he is willing to subject his family to such vitriolic teachings to do nothing more than further his own ambitions, what would he do to our country?

bjc -- Obama IS black
"I am tired of everyone saying that Obama is black when he has 50% white and 50% black blood in him."

Yah, and I'm tired of people trying to say he's "half-white" as if any of that mattered.


"To say he is black is a throw back from those days that a drop of black blood makes you black."

50% is a whole lot more than a drop.


He's mulatto. Mulattos have the advantage that they more-or-less get to choose who they want to identify with. He's identified with blacks. So be it.

He's black. Get over it.

And I HATE that term "mulatto"
It means "mule", as in the non-viable offspring between a horse and a donkey.

But that's the lingo and we're stuck with it.

AT -- on Criticizing America
"If this country is to ever improve, we have to get out of this stubborn and delusional mindset that causes us to demonize anyone for criticizing America for some of the immoral things the US has done."

I agree 100%.

However, Reverend Wright has done a little more than merely "criticize" America, as you well know.

Packrat -- the speech
"A lot of pretty words and lifted terms,"

You were expecting Shakespeare maybe?



;-)

Vic -- Context
"explain to the rest of us how you can say GD America in any context and it be OK."

Context:

"And then he said, 'GD America', and I said, 'What? Hey! Oh no you did NOT say THAT in front of MY kids!!' and then he said, 'Oops, sorry.'"

OK? ;-)

AudiR10
Thanks,exactly how this should be handled.
My family started this years ago with the Catholic Church.

My cousin was molested by a priest here, and we traced it back to the scandal in Newfoundland.

These are fallible human beings.

Obama is teling us not to pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Bull!

AudiR10 a response
you said my questions was silly yet you went into a very detailed response to it. what gives?

I think what you as a caucasian right wing conservative republican dont understand is that type of rhetoric attributed to Rev. Wright is very typical in the more politically oriented
black churches. It's just that people such as yourself never hear it. By and large a large number of blacks agree with it, they just dont repeat it in public for survival purposes.

But to me it's not different than rhetoric I hear from the far right on race matters. when you say things like "blacks and other minorities vote in bloc for democrats because they promise handouts and free stuff", that is considered
highly inflammatory racist propaganda by minorities and they consider it to be absolutely false.

Repubs/Cons are in denial about race relations in this country and the fact that they have a problem with racial diversity. the republican party is seen as the party that advocates and protects the rights of white males domestically
and around the world.

Say what you want, repub/con attempts to morph
Rev Wright into Sen. Obama reek of desperation
to me. he cannot be held responsible for the words of another and just because he attends that persons church doesnt mean he agrees with what he says. that 's the bottom line.

Yo son, like
yeh, the brother did say "God Da#* America", but yo, whitey don't dig the jive talk, like you know, "Damn" really means "bless" in black English, you know, like "bad" really means "good", "nigah" really means "my dear, and respected colleague".

Brother Obama should set whitey straight, and put him hip to the lingo, you know what I'm sayin' son?

Will the Real B.Hussein Obama Standup?
To answer that question, B.Hussein Obama has stood up and he's not pretty and he is exposed for the left wing hater that he really is.

Augustus_McRae
!Can hardly type still laughing!

Left Angle response to AudiR10
Let me see if I understand your point. I am white so I cant understand that Rev(?) White was really preaching "love". That he really is just using "Black" language? I have heard a lot of Bullchit over the years but that about beats all! The man, Rev White, is a bigoted racist period. If black people dont think so then I question their definition of racism.
Your attempt to"spin" this to be a conservative attack does not wash. Obamma listened to this kind of cr@p for 20 years says a lot about his thought process? Its only becase he knows its going to alienate many of his potential white electorate that he is now spinning it otherwise.
Guess what we now know whet he really stands for.

sjt18/jr: the republican brand...
lots of republicans and pundits are saying what we all agree on, that bush did considerable damage to the the republican brand and I just dont see how Sen. McCain can repair it in 6 months or less.

I'll say this, though, Sen. McCain to me represents the more moderates in the Republican Party and his nomination is symbolic to me that they fully intend to take back control of the republican party from the far right conservatives
who have pushed them around and dominated them for years now. They are sick of it and blame conservatives for loss of control of congress at midterms and if predictions hold form for loss of the white house and retaining congress to the dems in fall of 08. I can see it coming. In other words the Reagan coalition of social and fiscal conservatives is over for the time being.

Unca Alby
Your context is not context. It is quoting another person saying it.

No the libs on here are back-peddling as fast as they can trying to defend the in defendable. I think it is hilarious and show what real hypocrites they are. Just imagine if this was reversed with a Republican trying to defend belonging to a “white Aryan” church for 20 years.

And good old LA just wants to change the argument to McLame. H*ll, the only person on here that defends McLame is Wobbie.

questions for left angle
"that type of rhetoric attributed to Rev. Wright is very typical in the more politically oriented
black churches. It's just that people such as yourself never hear it. By and large a large number of blacks agree with it, they just dont repeat it in public for survival purposes."

When we finally all agree how bad whitey is, which is fine, will the church black church then address the issues of abortion, illegitimacy, murder, misogyny, illiteracy,etc, etc, etc. All seem a bigger problem than evil cuacasions.

"But to me it's not different than rhetoric I hear from the far right on race matters. when you say things like "blacks and other minorities vote in bloc for democrats because they promise handouts and free stuff", that is considered
highly inflammatory racist propaganda by minorities and they consider it to be absolutely false."

Never heard that one. interesting point but is the claim false? Often, if something is offensive it is quite likely true...see political correctness

"Repubs/Cons are in denial about race relations in this country and the fact that they have a problem with racial diversity. the republican party is seen as the party that advocates and protects the rights of white males domestically
and around the world."

Don't know if denial is the case. Ferarro proved race can't even be discussed. Why would cons discuss it when if you say something someone disagrees with you are a racist (IDIOTIC). Jesus, all she did was state an opinion, right or wrong, and she gets booted? You can imagine when democrats do this to their own why cons don't get into race issues...you can't win. rev's sermons will continue to assure this.

Left Angle
In spite of what anyone of any color might believe there is NO comparison between Wright's rhetoric and what goes on in a typical conservative Christian church.

Please tell me btw, why do blacks vote Dem if those aren't the reasons? Many blacks unfortunately see themselves as an agrieved class of people rather than individuals in need of having their constitutional rights protected. For that reason, they seem to vote as a bloc for the Dems since Dems play to those with grievances.

I'm listening... if that isn't the reason please tell us what it is.

Truth matters whether people dislike it or not.

YES. Obama can be and SHOULD be held accountable for what he tolerated and supported in a church for 20 years.

The Reagan coalition
LA said: "In other words the Reagan coalition of social and fiscal conservatives is over for the time being."

Not because that common ground is no longer available or a winning position though. It is precisely because the GOP abandoned both to a very large degree after getting in that they lost. IOW's, the "moderates" took control after the battle had been won and promptly handed victory to the Dems.

If the GOP can be considered believable again by fiscal and social conservatives... those positions are not inherently conflicting. In fact, they are complimentary- both center on the empowerment of the people and disempowerment of the gov't.

A pox on both your houses
This is another phony debate between right-wing socialists like Thomas Sowell and left-wing socialists like Obama. A lot of libertarians think Thomas Sowell is some kind of libertarian. He's not. And never was. He's a neoconservative with some free-market tendencies. He's a Republican Party apologist to boot.

Forgive me if I don't get exercised over Rev. Wright's comments. While he makes some valid points, he is too much of a collectivist to see the forest for the trees. Don't believe for a minute that big government conservative Sean Hannity is showing any kind of principle by denoucing Wright. Hannity would rather have his fellow necon. Hillary as president despite his protestations to the contrary.

The conservative movement had its chance to get behind Ron Paul: a Christian, pro-life, family man with a near perfect Constitutionalist voting record. They opposed him because he wasn't willing to sacrafice our individual liberties, steal our tax dollars and murder innocent men, women and children in the name of fighting terrorism.

I grew up
in the south... and STILL know far more Democrats who are racists than Republicans.

Left Angle
Your statement that McCain is a "moderate" shows how far you have drifted from political reality.

THIS IS A MODERATE?

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/23/122006.sht ml

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/democrats-say-mccain-ne arly-abandoned-gop-2007-03-28.html

_____________________________
America's enemies know Obama!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=36308A4 4-DF3D-46AD-829A-4F63BA0C52F1

LysanderSpooner
I would have supported Paul if he'd produced any kind of realistic answer to issues of national defense and particularly Islamic terrorism.

He seems to suffer from the illusion that Islam is benign. Islam has a singular purpose- world dominion. It isn't something that is denied. When you hear someone pray at the national prayer breakfast for the "peace of Allah" to rest upon America... he isn't talking about peace the way we think of it... He's praying for the conversion of America to Islam.

Islam only accepts two sides: the world of Islam and the world of war.

In short, they are coming and only respect strong resistance and even then only as long as it lasts.

I loved everything Paul said except that massive blank under the topic of "How would you protect America from its enemies... especially the unconventional ones?"

Race and Politics
I tried to send Dr. Sowell's column to Obama but, for whatever reasons, it wouldn't take. Anyway, here is the attached preface that would have accompanied Sowell's column:

Senator Obama,
Attached is a column by Thomas Sowell regarding your relationship with Rev Wright. Sowell grew up in the same generation as Wright, experienced poverty and racial discrimination, and yet somehow was able to overcome these adversities, attaining success without laying blame on others. As a strong conservative, I'd have no compunction voting for Sowell, Walter Williams, Larry Elder, J.C. Watts, Lynn Swann, etc because I hold closely with their political and philosophical ideals. Isn't that the essence of non-racism... seeing beyond skin color to embrace similar beliefs? Can the black community make the same claim? Or are the aforementioned gentlemen just a bunch of "Uncle Toms?" Who are the racists? Finally, never forget that slavery is a global institution, by and large, the spoil of conquests. What transpired in American, while horrible, was numerically insignificant compared to the number of white Europeans enslaved by North Africans. China? Japan? You'd be hard pressed to name a continent where slavery hasn't flourished... England and the United States were the first to outlaw slavery. Finally, never forget that several hundred thousand "white devils" sacrificed their lives to put an end to this institution during the Civil War.

OldeCoastie
That should be "blue eyed devils".

Obama and Moral Relativism
Obama and his apologists argue that their morality is simply a product of their culture and experience. Their morality cannot be understood by those outside their culture. Absolutes that apply to all races and cultures are non-existent or meaningless in their quest for superiority.

Black separatism theology is nothing more than a cult stepping outside the realm of Christianity and mixing religion with politics. Apostates are blacks who refuse the enlightenment the cult holds. The polarization of us versus them is typical of all cults. Their leader claims the exalted status of belonging to both sides, therefore only he can close the divide.

What does Prophet Obama bring:
- New vision of lifes possibilities.
- New sense of lifes meaning.
- New social structure.
- Sense of exhilaration by creating something new.
- A way to break with the current oppression.
- Real Utopia that will solve all of our problems.

is Koolaid distribution next?

oldecoastie has a point, or several
touche! - but i think it's blue-eyed WHITE devils.

sjt18
good morning my friend

this is an interesting time we are living in huh?

i visited the mississippi delta region in the 1970's on a church mission.

in 1972 there were still black sides to resturants and whites only drinking fountains.

because i associated with the members of the black church we were visiting, i could not get waited on in stores.

now it didn't seem to matter whether they were democrats or republicans, they were simply racist.

that experience was extremely shocking to me and seared in my memory banks forever.

now, we fast foward to 2008 and expect that those kind of memories should not affect the way blacks think about america.

i believe wright was wrong but the now retired minister grew up when the experiences i had were day to day life for him.

that is not justification of course, but to act as though blacks are ungrateful because they don't appreciate the wonderful country that you and i cherish is asking them to ignore extreme injustice that they actually lived through.

keep in mind also that the black church was the center of the civil rights movement and without the black church, change would have been much slower in coming.

don't really have a overriding point here just that the experiences of growing up in america of many older black americans were a lot different than older white americans.


Left Angle - - Types of Rhetoric
"that type of rhetoric attributed to Rev. Wright is very typical in the more politically oriented black churches."

If this is true, it's no wonder so many blacks are still swept up in the Politics of Victimhood.



"But to me it's not different than rhetoric I hear from the far right on race matters. when you say things like "blacks and other minorities vote in bloc for democrats because they promise handouts and free stuff", that is considered highly inflammatory racist propaganda by minorities and they consider it to be absolutely false."

So -- you equate "G.D. America" with "blacks vote democrat" ?

Sheesh.

Cvn65
"whites invented the AIDS virus to get blacks"

Actually this is what he said:

“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color"

Nothing in that statement refers to anyone’s ethnicity, the pastor is talking about America, period. Get your facts straight and stop putting incorrect quotes on TH that flame the hate against Rev Wright.

"whites invented crack cocaine to imprison the black man”

Actually this is what he said in reference to what you mention:

"The government gives them the drugs builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people...God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.

Once again, get your facts and quotes together before you post something in quotes and before you spew your hate at blacks and Rev Wright as a result of being uninformed. Nothing in the above quote says anything about “whites” as you ignorantly posted.


Cvn65 p2
“Prior to myself, noone in my family ever owned a business or served in a supervisory role over other workers. We came from Ireland and Scotland in the 1920's. We were heavily discriminated against at first. We got over it and worked hard. We got our kids to college in the third generation without special consideration or gummint grants. We achieved on our own, not by moaning and crying about how unfair it is”

Honestly, I don’t care about your families rise in America, that’s great and wonderful for you and your family. I’m not Irish and I don’t presume to know and understand the trials and tribulations of Irish Americans or any other ethnic group that I’m NOT apart of. However, there seems to be this presumptuous attitude tha