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Tuesday, March 04, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Rescuing the Rust Belt
by Thomas Sowell
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It is fascinating watching politicians say how they are going to rescue the "rust belt" regions where jobs are disappearing and companies are either shutting down or moving elsewhere.

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is being blamed for the jobs going elsewhere. Barack Obama blames the Clinton administration for NAFTA, and that includes Hillary Clinton.

Senator Obama says that he is for free trade, provided it is "fair trade." That is election year rhetoric at its cleverest.

Since "fair" is one of those words that can mean virtually anything to anybody, what this amounts to is that politicians can pile on whatever restrictions they want, in the name of fairness, and still claim to be for "free trade." Clever.

We will all have to pay a cost for political restrictions and political cleverness, since there is no free lunch. In fact, free lunches are a big part of the reason for once-prosperous regions declining into rust belts.

When the American automobile industry was the world's leader in its field, many people seemed to think that labor unions could transfer a bigger chunk of that prosperity to its members without causing economic repercussions.

Toyota, Honda, and others who took away more and more of the Big Three automakers' market share, leading to huge job losses in Detroit, proved once again the old trite saying that there is no free lunch.

Like the United Automobile Workers union in its heyday, unions in the steel industry and other industries piled on costs, not only in wage rates having little relationship to supply and demand, but in all sorts of red tape work rules that added costs.

State and local governments in what later became the rust belt also thought that they too could treat the industries under their jurisdiction as prey rather than assets, and siphon off more of the wealth created by those industries into state and local treasuries with ever higher taxes -- again, without considering repercussions.

In the short run, you can get away with all sorts of things. But, in the long run, the chickens come home to roost. The rust belt is where those rising costs have come home to roost.

While American auto makers are laying off workers by the thousands, Japanese auto makers like Toyota and Honda are hiring thousands of American workers. But they are not hiring them in the rust belts.

They are avoiding the rust belts, just as domestic businesses are avoiding the high costs that have been piled on over the years by both unions and governments in the rust belt regions.

In short, the rust belts have been killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. That is a viable political strategy, so long as the goose doesn't die before the next election and politicians can avoid leaving their fingerprints on the weapon.

But the people who lose their jobs, and who live in communities that decline, need to look beyond the political rhetoric to the grim reality that there is no free lunch.

Many workers in the new plants being built by Toyota and others apparently already understand that. They have repeatedly voted against being represented by labor unions. They want to keep their jobs.

Where does NAFTA come into the picture?

International trade is just one of the many ways in which the competition of lower cost producers can cause higher cost producers to lose customers and jobs. Technological improvements or better management practices by domestic competitors can have the same result.

Jobs are always disappearing. The big question is why they are not being replaced by new jobs. Rust belt policies that drove out old jobs also keep out new jobs.

NAFTA makes it easier for politicians to blame the problem on foreigners. In fact, foreigners make ideal scapegoats for politicians. After all, people in Japan or India can't vote in American elections.

Americans who can vote would do well to start spending more time thinking about economic realities, instead of being swept away by political rhetoric.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Hoorah...
Hey oh-where'd you go Ohio?

Repeat after me, "Economic realities, economic realities."

That goes double for the Federal Reserve and the Congress.

"Economic realities, economic realities, economic realities, economic realities."

Can't pay your bills? No problem-turn on those printing presses!


Excellent, Dr. Sowell
My nephew retired a couple of weeks ago from Ford
after 30 years on the production line. And, yes he agreed you should never buy a vehicle made on
Monday etc. The most memorable comment he made was that the constant complainers earning 40K and
filing grievances would, when there was a cutback
at ford, go down the street to work for Toyota at 35K and never complain. Unions can find plenty
to hate in their own employer. Kinda like liberals who find so much to hate in their own country! The union has always taught that the company you work for is not a partner, but instead, the enemy #1.

Election campaigns bring out the worst in the
candidate and the voter. At this time, you see
them both willing to damage their industry and their Country for political advantage.






hate their companies as

The Plain Facts
As usual, Dr. Sowell articulates so clearly what is the grim reality, but we Americans, despite our "free" press are not engaged in the economic realities that are in front of us.

Personal Observation
At age 17 I went to work at Inland Steel, in East Chicago, Indiana. After a few months all the employees I had been working with left, replaced by a different crew.

After asking a lot of questions I found out that the guys who had left were just on vacation. They, having more than 20 years of service, were taking their 20+ weeks of vacation and this new crew was coming back from vacation. Some of these guys were taking 26 weeks off.

I wasn't the smartest person in the world but I knew that business couldn't support two sets of employees. So I made tracks to the nearest recruiting office. Four years later I returned from the Army and would you believe that company had my job waiting for me with four weeks of vacation accrued. I took the vacation staring the day after I got back then gave my two weeks notice.

College was where I planned to be. It is a reality that so many living in the Rust Belt only see what they are told to see by union reps and Politicians. Unfortunately there are many of these people who make their living by misleading these folks.

Unions microcosm of government
In my youth, I was an officer of a statewide union. Elected by the younger family men because I was a radical, I was instrumental in getting the largest three-year contract in our union's history. Shortly after obtaining the contract, because the younger men didn't come to the meetings unless a contract was due, the cigar-smoking, diamond-ring-wearing oldtimers who always went to the meetings for a night out from the "old lady", I was turned out of office by political manipulation. Eight candidates were put up, but only two received votes. I lost by one vote.
I told you that to tell you this: I have seen the waste and corruption first hand. Corrupt unions are merely a microcosm of corrupt government. They are all mere manifestations of the inherently evil and inevitably corrupting One Ring of (political) Power. If that were not true, organized labor could have, and would have, had its own banks, credit unions, mortgage companies, hospitals and universities decades ago.
Ultimately, everything of value is made by labor, which means all taxes are ultimately paid by labor.
I'm not sure what the exact human equation is, but it does seem that labor has always been too ignorant and divided in its own household to be able to take political control over its own capital.
Anyway, I got out of the union decades ago, started reading some books, changed my stinking little life, and will remain self-employed til the end of my days.
Labor will always be clueless as long as workers see the solution to all of life's problems as being a huge raise devoid of relationship to productivity, or any of the other harsh realities of economics. Labor tends to not read many books!

Stupid voters
The last sentence of the article is a pipe dream. Too many voters are easily swayed by political rhetoric and absolutely incapable of rational thought.

There's a Novel Thought!
"Americans who can vote would do well to start spending more time thinking about economic realities, instead of being swept away by political rhetoric."

Americans should also simply start thinking. Unortunately those that need to read this the most don't even bother thinking or educating themselves on relevant matters such as this otherwise.

We get the government we, as a colletive, deserve.

This is an excellent example...
... of the difference between political and economic decision-making, which Dr. Sowell discusses in more detail in his book "Applied Economics: Thinking Beyond Stage One."

A must-read.

Wysman
I agree. Too bad we're preaching to the choir here.

Not to mention their arrogance
and lack of work ethic. Also in this group is government employees (or as the communists say "workers"). This winter these "workers" man the snow plows. They have completely destroyed the curbs, which allows water to drain into my property and into my cellar. They have flung snow 10 feet from the road into the front lawn, dumping hideous amounts of snow, which froze, making it almost impossible to remove. They speed down the street while flinging snow 10 feet and almost hit me with same while clearing snow on the sidewalk. Speed limit is 30 and I believe they exceeded that. Our telephone poles have call boxes on them, which are not to be used anymore. Our city "workers" put duct tape around them, which has come loose and hangs and flies around in the wind and rain. It is very attractive, it is a new tourist attraction. Years ago I had a small printing shop. A union truck driver "worker" was delivering about 5 boxes of paper on a dolly. The printing press was in the back, about 25 feet away. Since we were three women, I asked him if he could push it back there. He refused, it wasn't in his contract, he had only to deliver it to the front door. Time spent may have been about 30 seconds. The unions have destroyed this country because these "workers" greedily want more money for less work. Bunch of bums, as far as I am concerned.

Sorry Tom....
I like many of your scribblings but when it comes to the alter of 'Free Trade' you become as blind in your 'faith' to it as a Muslim suicide bomber.

I suggest you set aside Walter Williams books for a couple of months and start reading some of Pat Buchanan's.

Road Dog
You are correct that no firm can support two sets of workers. That is why our firm is staggering, as the government guarantees women a year off with pay when they get pregnant, and guarantees their job should they return between pregnancies. I have been at this company for 4 years and the number of *floaters* -- women hired to fill in when the regular secretary is out -- has diminished by a factor of 10; all the former floaters are at the desks of Mommies for the Duration and we cannot hire any more to replace them. The nature of the business has historically meant that it is staffed by women in their prime breeding years; therefore, at any given time a very large percentage of our staff is at home. Consequently the work is not getting done.

However, suggest that perhaps people ought to be paid to do secretarial work, and not to breed, and let the screaming begin.

All that is needed to *fix* the Rust Belt is to bring back the quaint notion that your employer pays you a good days wage for a good days work. And should not be paying you to stay home and breed, any more than it should be paying me to jump a motorcycle through a flaming hoop of death.

Doomed
Isn’t it remarkable that the very things that the lames are advocating during this election cycle are the things that brought on and extended the great depression? Let’s hear it for huge tax increases and protectionist tariffs. Add to it the additional costs of over-regulation and brain-dead union rules and you have a recipe for disaster.

And the sad thing about it is that McLame isn’t any better on this score. People we are doomed.

Michigan economy
Live in Michigan your whole life and not be an employee of the big three with large vacations, 401k etc.and all their other goodies. Even as a college grad struggle year after year to raise a family, send your kids to college, and try to keep your home & health insurance. Try to keep afloat when your democrat government (voted in by the unions)chases employers out of the state by overtaxing and raising your income tax retroactive to three months prior. Watch your college grad kids leave the state. Watch your job disappear as younger workers including foreign workers brought in by their companies your governor wined & dined get hired. Rent them a car & scurry for their business,until they get established. Watch all the party store owners bring their relatives to this country year after year and not have to pay taxes. Look in the mirror and wonder what happened to your life. Never expected a happily ever after; only to survive intact. That is now a dream disolving day by day. Sick of the political rhetoric on both sides.They only care about the immediate vote. The vote for more power for themselves.

more pay, less work
yeah, that's the ticket....

Having been in business for myself multiple times, I soon developed a policy of not hiring those who had been laid off from their good union positions, because their goal on the job is to do as little work as possible. It's almost a competition to who can screw off on the job the most.

The old joke about highway crews - five guys standing around watching one guy work - unfortunately is a reality. I know many hard workers from the rust belts who migrated West to get away from the corruption and those I know who still live in OH, PA & NY, for example, really, really wish they didn't.

Reminds me of another old joke. Know why the wind blows in PA? Because NY SUCKS!!!


And the winner is...
gahotdog! The first one to post a dissenting opinion to another well written column by Dr. Sowell. What a great idea, let's all get our economics lesson from a Politician/broadcaster/columnist vs two of the most respected men in the field of economics.

Sorry, but I think I'll stick with Sowell's and Williams' "scribblings".

Here's something to ponder: If Thomas Sowell creates scribblings, what does that make gahotdog's irrelevant posting?

Great Article,now let's consider
the economic realities of other schemes such as Social Security and Medicare.They are going to collapse and no one wants to deal with it.

Vic
morning to ya!
Cleveland is the next Detroit in the making. But what can you expect when these ignorant idiots keep voting Dennis the Menace into office. Get what you pay for fools.

SSGT
Good morning to you as well. Yes, Ohio is going down the tubes fast.

LOL, even the farmers are leaving. My nephew in GA married an Ohio girl whose parents moved down to farm in in GA.

Vic
see, LOL, even the folks in GA know that Ohio is in the tanks. Its soooo sad to watch it every day, but, when a few things work themselves out for me and the family, I will not be far behind the rest of the peeps leaving this once great state!

Unions the Problem?
Compare the Honda and Toyota against a GM and Ford, all "built" in the US. What is the result? Honda and Toyota far exceed the quality of the US companies. Who engineered the US company cars, not the unions. Reverse engineering is how the Japanese first caught up with us but didn't stop there. To me, it boils down to engineers, CEOs and boards of the US companies.

Sowell
Where the hell is Lilly and her communist gang?

Of course, they would not understand this article.

gashotdog
See, the thing is, both Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell are a whole lot smarter than Pat Buchanan, as one can easily surmise by reading or listening to all three.

TRUTH
Dr.Galbraith is saying in his grave,"Thomas, that is the Worst Explanation of the Facts, I Have Ever Heard".First of all,the Japanese did not TAKE any business from the "Rust Belt".The Ford's and others gave it away,with their arrogance and lack of imagination.Unions are becoming the "DUMPING GROUND" for all the mistakes made by business over the last 50 years.Unions when truly understood,offer Americans their best pathway to ECONOMIC FREEDOM.There is away to overcome "US" present set of circumstances.But, articles like your will not show the WAY!!!

Dr. Sowell's Message
Dr. Sowell's message would not go over well here in Ohio among the rank and file. Many of those in the Toledo, Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown areas would rather fall for the NAFTA diatribes on Clinton and Obama. How Clinton and Obama intend to get the jobs back to Ohio is beyond me. Ohio's decades old tax burdens and over regulation of industries prevent obstacles to any sensible business that may even consider locating here. Our state politicians just don't get it !!!!

SSGT writes:
Tuesday, March, 04, 2008 7:57 AM
Vic
morning to ya!
Cleveland is the next Detroit in the making. But what can you expect when these ignorant idiots keep voting Dennis the Menace into office. Get what you pay for fools.

------

No, No, SSGT, Dennis is going to lure aliens (outer space aliens, the mexican variety are already here) and steal their technology, like China does to the U.S. That will save Cleveland.

To know what's wrong in Ohio, all you have to do is look at the Ford Union boys who just a year and a half ago sneered at a 140K buyout - why take 140K when you're earning $76/hour in wages and compensation? No wonder they can't make a decent 6 cylinder engine - all the development money is going into developing their retirement plans. But that's ending now, unless Barak can wave his magic wand and force jobs back to northern Ohio. Just click your heels three times, there's no place like home....

SSGT
If you are going to move to GA I recommend that you stay away from the Atlanta area. That part of GA is no longer GA. You could call it GA-Michigan because that is what it has become.

I recommend middle GA or Southern GA. I do not recommend SC where I am at as they are the highest tax State in the south.

Having been a union president
I understand fully how difficult it is to get rid of an incompetent teacher or one who isn't really happy dealing with children. Teachers need to know they can be fired.

Think about communism in its hey day. Productivity was way down because workers had guaranteed jobs.

Oh well. Don't worry be happy. Isn't that what unionism offers??

The difference between Japanese
companies and American companies can be seen through their CEOs. The CEOs of Japanese companies are engineers while thier American counterparts are either lawyers or MBAs.

And yes, Unions are what is killing American business, primarily in retirement health care costs. It is no secret why the foreign car companies have located their factories in the South.

GeenDay/Vic
No not the aliens. I forgot about them! I hope they are not "Green" Day! And I've clicked my heels three hundred times, and nothing!

Vic
I was thinking about Virginia, NC, TN or even KY. I was lucky to have been thru every state in the US in my military travels, and those are the ones I liked the most.

Great Article
Great Article Dr. Sowell. You hit the nail right on the head. Maybe you should teach the American public about W. Edwards Demming and his philosophies about business which the Japanese did. That's the reason Toyota is so successuful and his picture is in the Toyota Hq building in Tokyo. Demming tried to sell his philosophy to GM in the 50's but they wanted nothing to do with it so he took it to Japan and they embraced it. The results speak for themselves.

Ouch
This should be required reading for any prospective union member but I think it is safe to say that very few union members would even read the first paragraph of something written by Dr. Sowell. Everyone who has an open mind realizes that in the 1960's we had administrations and a Congress that were very pro-union and allowed them to write their own rules. Thus, the economic chaos of the 1970's and the beginning of the mass exodus of manufacturing jobs out of this country, long before NAFTA was even discussed. What we need more than anything else now is a way to break the teacher's and government employee's unions, but I'm not holding my breath.

Vic
Unions are killing American business.It is the "Utter Stupidity" of Americans, that is killing American business.I have read a number of the pot on this thread and not one person understands basic economics.American children reflect their parents.The people of Ohio want the "OLD" jobs back.If I were to make that statement at Harvard,every person in the class would say WHY.It is extremely hard to educate people who REFUSE to THINK.Americans want EASY solutions to difficulty problems.The micro-wave oven has manifested an expectation,which cannot be duplicated elsewhere.WAKE UP AMERICAN WORKERS,IT IS YOUR TIME TO "RULE".My GOD you all are SLOW!!!

SSGT
If you are worried about States that treet illegals good then Ohio is actually better than some of the States you have listed. It has fewer illegals than many of them, thus probably has more conservative governance. LOL, GA is number 7 on the list of baddies here.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-peo ple-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants

DEMOCRAT VOTERS IMMUNE TO LOGIC

.....Another great article on reason ...the problem is that Democrat voters shut out logic the way Dracula avoids sunlight ...

.....After the UAW and the Democrats in Michigan conspired to destroy the local economy the voters still elected a Democrat Governor who immediately raised taxes to cover shortfalls caused by lost industry ...Michigan remains a Blue State with unemployed workers still yearning for the glory days of "raping" the auto-makers for as much as they could get and voting for any charlatan who promises to bring back those days ...it is difficult to reason with such ingrained stupidity ...

.....While both Democrat candidates are trying to blame NAFTA for the excesses of the Unions ...Hillary has talked of "taking" the profits from the oil companies and punishing industries who "export" jobs overseas ...sounds a lot like Marxist Totalitarianism to me ...but maybe that is what the voters want .....COLOSSUS

ROAD DOG

.....I worked at Youngstown Sheet & Tube in Indiana Harbor in the 50's ....after six months I was out on a strike that lasted 20 weeks ...strikers are not eligible for unemployment benefits so I had to take odd day jobs to survive ...

.....When the strike was over I calculated that I would never be able to recover my lost wages before the next inevitable strike, in three years when the current contract expired ...I left for greener pastures and never worked in a union shop again ...within ten years the mills began to shut down because they could no longer compete with cheaper imported steel from Japan .....COLOSSUS

killer
I guess ol' JKG would say that from his grave. Why should any expect to cease being incorrect just because he died.

I grew up in West Virginia, and let me tell you, I know just what a scourge the unions are. You are right about one thing: Japan did not kill Detroit. The unions and the neo-Marxist left (read "Democrat Party") killed Detroit. And West Virginia. And the rest of the Rust Belt.

Oh. But Doctor Sowell just said that in the column.

I freely admit that I did not take an Econ course in college. I've studied economics all my life by working for a living and trying to support and raise my family. And I learned a lot. I do understand economics, just as well if not better than you. Because I also understand history. And, Lord knows, it is literally my business to understand people and human motivation. Therefore, I know for a fact that your type of socialism, while great on paper, has never worked and will never work. Plato was wrong. Sir Thomas More was wrong. Marx and Engels were wrong. Keynes was wrong. Galbraith was wrong. Adam Smith, Friederch Hayek, Thomas Jefferson, Milton Friedman, and Ronald Reagan were right. Paul Krugman is crazy wrong. Doctors Sowell and Williams are dead-on correct.

Eggs? Let's make an Omlette!
I can. . .I will. . .I promise. . .I'll see to it that. . . Politicians must have the capability to work miracles: How else could they continually guarantee impossibilities to the sheeple as already done deals?
The one absolute truth (that cannot be stressed enough in educating the voting public) is that: THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CREATE ANYTHING!!!! It PRODUCES NOTHING! Government is the antithesis of FREE MARKET ENTERPRENURIAL INITIATIVE. Government is the ultimate BOTTOMLESS MAW CONSUMER! Politicians promise because every one of them fully understands this truth. They DO NOT need to produce a thing. Politicians, ergo Government CONSUME. Your spirit, your individuality, your life and livelihood, your freedoms. We can change the dynamic. One term for any/all politician and political office. ONE TERM-WE'VE LEARNED. Pass the FAIR TAX!! Let's take back our country.

Economics in real life
A relative of mine who worked in Detroit as a leading attorney for the UAW at their home office, Solidarity House, and ended his career as Clinton's last labor secretary, had a priceless experience many years ago.

At the time, he and his young family also lived in the City of Detroit. Next to his home was a vacant lot which was filled with trash and junk. He took action and paid the little black children in the neighborhood to clean it up, which they did with relish. Problem solved, or so he thought.

A few days later, the lot was again filled with trash. Again, he paid the children and they went to work. The pattern repeated several times until he discovered the kids were trashing the lot. The kids obviously knew that in doing so, a payday would soon follow.

He soon left the city and moved into Grosse Pointe Park, a very clean, neat and peaceful town of prosperous whites on Detroit's border.

The lesson was completely ignored by my cousin and he remains in retirement, a committed socialist with two very expensive homes, one in northern Michigan on a lake and the other, in Florida.

Michigan winters can be tough.

Both Parties signed those Contracts.
Union contracts, among other things, certainly hurt the Amertican automobile industries ability to be price/ reliability competitive but let us not forget that both they and the unions signed those contracts. That finger of blame can be pointed in both directions if that is all we are going to do. Better we spend our time and efforts determining what now needs to be done. That requires us to admit what is wrong and correct it rather than focuing only on who is to blame.

Politicians, with only a few...

Politicians, with only a few exceptions and then only widely sparse, produce miracles. We the people have produced more and frequent miracles, i.e. JFK & RWR.

NAFTA has flaws and should be re-examined and if need be re-negotiated. Fair and free trade is essential for the economy to continue to grow and create jobs. However, we should be looking at the kinds and types of jobs we want and should be creating. Low paying service sector jobs are not the type of jobs we exclusively should be creating. However, under the current conditions the un-level playing field is neither fair nor free. This is costing we the people in more ways than one, that were not foreseen when NAFTA was created and implemented.


Unions v. Corporations
Is what the fight is about with NAFTA.
Sowell is a corporate man.

All the while he sees communism in Labor Unions, he supports Marxism for Corporations.

And the truth is, both unions and corporations follow Marxist economics, the workers get the blame.

And the American worker who just wants to feed his family, have a home, pay the bills is the problem for all financial warfare in America, according to corporate thinkers like Sowell and Williams.

All the while they sit on their butts and contribute words making a salary that allows them to keep up with the costs of living, they support the workers in China and Mexico over the American workers who must deal with all the costs here, not the costs in Mexico and China.
Using words, costs them nothing to say, "get an education boys" Learn how to make computer chips if you want to eat.


Impossible for me to see men like Sowell and others who are not hurt by NAFTA as so full of .."it" make's me sick.




"...thinking about economic realities.."
Dr. Sowell is a very smart guy, but he is also one of the elite media. When dealing with the elites, you have to sometimes ask, what is it that they aren't telling us?

The first "economic reality" left out of this picture is a big government mentality in both parties that continues to run an unbalanced budget and is destroying the financial underpinnings of our society. If you ran your personal finances like the feds, you would be broke or in jail, probably both.

The second "economic reality" left out in this article is the internationalist mindset of the two parties that is not worried about the future of America only. Our resources are being squandered, our military weakened, our sovereignty given away, and the future being mortgaged to the hilt, all in order to promote the new world order/one world government socialist agenda that all of the elites believe in!

If you want to learn HOW the elites have created the world's greatest scam, I urge you to visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. On the site I explain in much greater detail how we have been duped, and how the DEM/GOP/MSM propaganda machines promote the big lie to keep themselves in power.

The lie is that only they have the necessary wisdom, knowledge, and experience to govern, and that we have no other choice, nowhere else to go. That is not true! Check out the site, why not? The elites have stolen our birthright, and we can no longer allow that to continue. Either this is the election to reclaim our inheritance or it isn't. What is your take? Is it going to be another lesser of two evils election? Thanks Joe

Another Observation

Can ANYONE point out to me a single American trade union that endorses Republicans for office?

Except for the occasional Lowell Weiker, Arlen Spectre, and the like, they edorse Democrats across the board. That should tell you something right there.

They are all veritable components of the DNC.

Bust The NEA!

It Is No Secret

That the economic understanding of most Americans is pitiful. Very sad. And THAT explains why otherwise bright people (like two or three opining above,) can utter such drivel.

AND vote for the communists of the Democrat party

Shrinque
If you understand economics and history.You would understand, that no one is responsible for you but you.People wonder why others come to America and do so well.They have been taught the obvious.I could explain America's economy to you from 1776 to the present.I could do it in one paragraph(SHORT).I wonder can you?I am afraid,you hold yourself in a selfish regard,to which there is no second.Also,I rather like Plato.Apparently so do you,in that you have seen a SHADOW and taken to be REALITY.SORRY...

If you dig deep enough...
you will always find that government has done something that is causing problems. Government is about control and power. The more it gets the more it wants.

The answer is force government back into the box. Force it to be smaller. Government will not willingly do this itself. We the people must do it. That requires that we get off our self interest focus and think long term. If enough people do this we can change government by changing the people that represent us. Do not vote for incumbents. Throw out all the incumbents and elect fresh faces. Do that each and every election. It is so simple that it escapes most people. Is throw out the incumbent without flaws? No. But I believe it would be a vast improvement over the current situation. For example the newly elected would not owe anyone anything except the voters. And that is the way it should be. Think about this. Believe it and pass it on.

The UAW
In the course of my work as a probation officer (years ago), I was checking in on some prisoners in the county jail when I ran into a "employee assistance program" worker from one of the auto plants. A union man, I knew him because I had to occasionally had to go into auto plants to see if probationers who worked there were complying with their court orders.

He held in his hand a pile of paychecks, well over fifty, and said he was delivering them to workers so they could have them put in their jail accounts. When asked how they could get paid since they were not working, he said the checks were "vacation pay". These were workers from GM plants.

I've evaluated autoworkers who have missed as much as three years straight due to criminal behavior, only to have their jobs waiting for them when they got out of prison or jail. These people were from GM plants.

To have a worker just not show up for 8 or 10 weeks was not uncommon. They just reappeared on the job when the urge hit them, and no questions were asked. These were Chrysler workers.

Talking on occasion to some real auto workers at Lake Orion's GM plant, the ones who showed up every day, didn't make waves and worked their shifts without complaint, I learned that common bullies and those who kept themselves hidden during their shifts were always protected by the union. They said they were sick of it, but there was nothing they could do. The union was boss, and these good workers feared it.

To go against the union policies, a worker would see his or her car damaged when he left the plant. If he or she kept it up, they would first be quietly warned and if that didn't take, they'd be beaten senseless.

The union only protects those who should be fired. All others beware.

Remember, when you have a union in your plant, you have 2 bosses, and one of them doesn't abide by any rules to keep you in line. Guess which.




Sheepdog
You are absolutely correct about Demming and his theories. Even now, 50 years later, American industry still ignores him and embraces in turn numerous management philosophies other than Demming, to their peril and demise. In Japan, he was revered. Statistical Process Control was, and still is, innovative, and would improve Detroit exponentially, if they would have adopted it.

Shrinque

Your post makes sense. And it's well written, unlike your critic's.

DETROIT
Dr. Sowell, Right on! The USG during the 50's and 60's in its effort to "protect" the US auto industry made it virtually impossible for Americans to start up a new American auto manufacturing company in the USA, thereby allowing foriegn companies, funded by their governemnts, to undercut our auto industry to the point where is is doubtful that the US will make autos in the future. You might ask yourself that how is it that the Fords, Motts (GM) Wally Chrysler and the Dodge brothers, among many others were able to build cars. And now, fifty years later buy some magical logic only Asians and Europeans can build cars. Until the USG takes the shackles off the hands of American enterprise, no one in his right mind will risk the necessary capital to start up a manufacturing company; more or less, to keep the factories humming here, in the US. High taxes, regulation and induatry protectionism are the bain of free enterprise.

Never voted democrat in my life
Only republican
Until I woke up and realized the republican party is as full of the communists you hate in the democrat party.
----------



ThunderThudd writes: 11:52 AM
It Is No Secret

That the economic understanding of most Americans is pitiful. Very sad. And THAT explains why otherwise bright people (like two or three opining above,) can utter such drivel.

AND vote for the communists of the Democrat party
----------

Tell me the difference between a democrat communist and a republican communist?

Nafta and fair trade vs Rescue of Rust
The NAFTA agreement is a good plan and Ideal for all of us that abided within its intent.
However, so many companies and invester controlled corperations opted out for the clause that did not restrict them from moving and producing the same item at a much greater reduced cost.
While business wise this is a good sound move, is it a `FAIR' move to those that made your company great. No not your CEO.
Believe it or not, your work force did.
`But they cost so much, we cannot make any money', well blame your weak predicessors for that. They gave in to the unions long ago, as long as they kept the product rolling out the doors. So what if it promoted Communism, by denying other countries market access. So what if we support half the worlds economies with loans so cheap it would make anyone gasp, after all we can blame it on the opposition party.
You non owner investment wealthy want to be rich, nobility creating the perfect third world in my country.
And I hate you all for it, you make me ashamed to be A REPUBLICAN, but proud I am still an American who can change things.

We need a Democrat fix!
The economic disaster in the rustbelt is a prime example as to why we need to have a Democrat in the White House. The Democrat candidates have promised to get everyone in the rustbelt working again, and at the high wages they deserve. For too long the corporate employers have exploited the workers of this region, and they have obviously colluded in their attempts to break the backs of the unions. But with a Democrat at the reigns, the corporations in the rustbelt region had best watch out, because they are about to be regulated into doing right by their employees.

The government needs to step in and take away the profits from these companies and distribute the funds to the actual workers. There is no reason any non-laboring management official or other white collar worker should make more than the actual guy who has to sit and assemble the same little part day after day. In fact, the laborers deserve more, because that is what is fair. Once the government starts taking away the profits and putting the money where it belongs, the companies will become more prosperous because the workers will be properly rewarded.

Hillary has stated that she has what it takes to take away the profits of the oil companies. Hopefully Obama will follow suit and expand the idea to all industry. It is the government's responsibility to make sure all citizens have a high paying job that they enjoy, and it is about time we had some candidates who will fullfill this duty.

Vic-Ssgt-SDog
I grew up in The Rust Belt. the Tri-State Area of West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio. The UAW, The UMWA and The USWA comprised almost 100% of the work force in the area. They struck, used sick leave as EXTRA VACATION and socked it to 'The Company' at negotiating time. Now this area can't draw flies, the young leave ASAP after high school and/or college and those left behind whine and complain CONSTANTLY about their lot in life.

GET THIS, the mines/mills/factories ALL closed down some 20 years ago, but they ALL CLAIM it is President Bush’s fault they are unemployed/underemployed!

Not all about Unions
Many of you are just using the NAFTA issue as a brickbat with which to bash unions. There is much more to the issue than that. Non-union jobs have fallen victim to NAFTA as well. It is definitely oversimplification of the issue to say that we should lose cushy union jobs anyway. I don't think you can truly have a fair opinion on this issue unless you are one of those whose job is vulnerable. It's easy for people like Williams, Limbaugh, McCain, etc. to tout free trade b/c their jobs are insulated from competing with foreigners who will work for 2 bucks a day.

Unions
I worked in a union for several years after getting out of the military. They provided good schooling (although they thought electrical current went the wrong way), and insurance coverage for those of us who were moving from job to job. It those ways the union is ok. But they are the bigger part of the problem.

I worked with an older journeyman for some time. When break time came one day, he went to break early, as usual. After break time was over, he stayed late, as usual. I decided to question him this day.

Me: “It’s 15 minutes after break. Shouldn’t we be getting back to the job?”
Old Union Hand: “We’ll go back when I’m ready.”
Me: “We’ve got a job to do, and I’d like to get it over with. The plant wants it done this week.”
OUH: “I don’t care if that job ever gets done.”
Me: “This job is essential to plant operations. What if the plant loses a contract, or slows down?”
OUH: “I don’t care if this plant does shut down. When it does I’ll find another job.”

Now he's sitting at home, upset because all the jobs went overseas.

Loyal Democrat? Got to be Spoofing
Has to be a spoof about what you expect from a democrat in the WH. (12:57 post) If what you spout is really your belief, I'll pray for you. There's no earthly power I'm aware of that can help you.

The Real Culprits
I spent most of my life (45 years)in the auto industry, both for an auto company and then for their suppliers. It is easy to blame the Unions for the cost problems now destroying the US Auto Industry. But, don't forget the complient, short-sighted executives who agreed to all of those Union demands.

When I started my working career, we had only a "major medical" company insurance policy. No dental, no vision, no free healthcare for retirees. We were simply protected against catastrophic costs we might encounter with a major illness. Then bit by bit the company agreed to escalate these benefits to the cradle to grave coverage they now feature. Of course, health care costs accelerated right along with the expansion of "something for nothing" benefits in lieu of increased wages. Then the Unions began demanding astronomical wage increases and those executives caved again. Hell, what's wrong with a poorly educated assembly line worker making $80,000 a year? It was easy to just meet the Union's demands since all of the NA Auto industry competitors had the same spiraling costs. Hell, all was well and those executives could care less about the long term; most of them are quite wealthy today, retired with healthy pensions and living down here with me in Hilton Head, Kiaweh Island, etc. They left behind a domestic industry saddled with a cost structure that prevents GM and Ford from competing globally. GM and Ford will ultimately fail unless they can walk away from those legacy costs agreed to by those "corporate cowards" back in the 60's and 70's. Roger B. Smith nearly destroyed GM back a few decades ago and his bad decisions linger-on. Don't blame just the Unions, the domestic auto industry is a monument to historic bad management.

Incredulous
Loyal Democrat is our resident satirist. Do not be alarmed!!

loyal democrat
Well said! As I believe you quoted in an earlier post the constitution says it best "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
Obama has refined it slightly when he says just ask what your country can do for you, make all your wants and wishes known!

ECONOMIC STIMULUS
We the people pay all taxes, and we are the sole ultimate source of all tax revenue. Regardless where government initially collects the money, all tax money ultimately comes from us, the people, even though business has to pay thousands or millions of dollars at one time, and get it back from us one dollar at a time.
Since we the people are the one and only source of all tax revenue:
There should be only one tax to collect all tax revenue.
It should be a single, simple, fair, direct, graduated, individual, full-income tax levied on living persons for each level of government: One Tax and Done.
The best thing that government can do to help the country, the people, and even government, is to repeal all of the many hundreds, or thousands of existing taxes, fees, and charges. These taxes are the federal deficit. These taxes are the high price of everything. These tax eliminations are spending cuts. Every tax that is eliminated is a tax that we the people no longer have to pay. These taxes are the difference between the price we pay for health care and everything else, and the price we would pay if these taxes were repealed. Eliminating these taxes will remove them from the price paid for everything by everyone, including government.
There is no limit to the benefits One Tax and Done will provide:
One Tax and Done will reduce the price paid for everything by one-third.

NAFTA and Free Trade...
...are not the same thing. Free Trade is principled, NAFTA is not. Read the article here to understand the difference: http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?ai d=5031

NAFTA is what is known as 'Managed Trade'. It is not the same as 'Free Trade'.

Jim and loyal democrat
The saying, "from each according to his ability,to each to his need" was not in the Constitution. IT WAS IN THE COMMUNIST MAINFESTO.

Thanks YLG
It really was a pretty good riff. From the proper spelling and punctuation used however, I should have suspected.

Loyal Democrat
You know what's really frightening, I have encountered people who believe strongly just what you post on the TH boards. They know that profits are just evidence of the greed of those dastardly big corporations. Yep, let's get rid of those obscene profits, especially those billions of the oil companys' (jeez, they made over 7% profit margin last year, nearly 50% as much as MicroSoft), we'll give the profits to Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton and they can decide how to give them back to the truely needy.

To my brother the union member part 1
My brother,

You oppose my Total Tax Reform plan called “One Tax and Done”. Do you really enjoy paying much more for everything than you should have to pay, and seeing jobs taxed out of existence? There is something that you haven’t considered:

It is your duty to sell the plan. It is your duty and responsibility to go to your union meetings and remind the members that they pay a lot of money to the union as dues, and that a lot of that dues money (Do you know how much?) is given by the union bosses to state and federal Democrat-party politicians to keep them in office. Your union bosses don’t give any money to Republican-party politicians.

It is also your duty to remind the membership that these Democrat-party politicians are constantly passing more and higher taxes, and that these taxes have forced and continue to force many tens of thousands of employers out of business, out of the state, and out of the country, along with the jobs these employers provided. This is called outsourcing, and taxes are one of the main reasons for it. Hershey’s closing of the Luden’s Candy factory is a good example of this. Luden’s is a union shop, and the union jobs are going to Mexico, India, and Red China.

The politicians you are paying to keep in office are taxing millions of union jobs out of existence. Remember that, in 1990, these Democrat-party federal-level politicians greatly increased these taxes to force tens of thousands of employers to put millions of Americans out of jobs, to anger the people and get President Bush out of office. In 1991, the democrat-controlled state government did the same for no apparent reason other than “they could”. How many union members lost their jobs? Did the politicians ask for union permission to do that? All the union members are paying the politicians to cut their throats!!!


Incredulous, LD is Humor
Loyal Demo writes great satire, doesn't he? He's famous for it around here.

Union stewards are not good stewards
When I was going through college, I worked a couple of summers in a foundry in the rust belt that had a union. I didn't know any better and usually started working before the whistle and would finish up what I was doing after the whistle went off. It used to make the union steward really mad. He'd come over and yell at me and then spend most of his shift leaning against his bench talking (about me?) and looking for the foreman while I worked for my pay. I'd rather buy a car made by someone who thought he could lose his job for not performing than by a lazy, discontented union worker.

To my brother the union member part 2

You must get the membership to send the local union boss to the state union boss and to the national union boss. They should go to the state bosses and national bosses of all the other unions; and all the union bosses should go to the state and federal politicians to tell them that they will not get any more money, support, and votes until they repeal all these destructive, union-job-destroying taxes. If they don’t repeal the taxes, use the primary election to give someone else your support.

At this time, the state and national bosses can give copies of “One tax and Done” to each politician. I’ll follow this letter with state and federal versions of it. You probably haven’t thought about it, but if all those taxes had been repealed by 1946, we would have one of the best railroad systems in the world, and you wouldn’t have to worry that Amtrak might go under and your job might not last for ten more years – a concern you’ve expressed to me. The money that these taxes take from Amtrak is needed by Amtrak to stay in business, and save your job.

Remember, the taxes passed by Democrat-party politicians are destroying union jobs, and are a large part of the price paid for everything by everyone – including Amtrak and the government. Which is more important to you: Being a union member or a liberal? Carrying this out will attract more people to join unions all over the country.

Think about it and do it. It’s for your own good.

Your brother, Ron

One other thing, global warming mania can only hurt Amtrak, whether they use coal, oil, or electric.

Ron
Come on! The Democrats added the communist manifasto to either the constitution or made it part of their party platform long ago. OK I'm not really sure which! But as Howard Dean says "Democrats unlike Republicans don't want to see kids go to bed hungry at night".

NAFTA is a Symbol
Oil is at record highs over $100 a barrel. The Dollar is at record lows against the Euro. The Dollar has lost over half it's value against the Euro.

Stagflation is raising its ugly head.

Manufacturing jobs are going over seas.

In 2007, America's trade deficit was about $800 billion. We are heading into recession.

Wages have stagnated for Blue-Collar workers the last eight years. Do they deserve that?

All this occurred with Mr. Sowell's "free trade" policy being the law of the land, the last two administrations.

What? Weren't we pure enough?

If we have even more "free trade" will our problems be solved?

That's the problem. We have so-called free trade, right now. And it's driving the U.S. into the ditch.

How much farther into the ditch does America have to go? Third World status?

But you know, we could be in Third World status and people like Mr. Sowell would stil be shilling for free trade.

Soon Mr. Sowell would be sounding the praises of Third World status: Four legs good, two legs better.

How much longer?

NAFTA is a symbol for a much larger issue.

Mr. Sowell doesn't like the word "fair," too hard to define. Okay. But Mr. Sowell, tell me this: For how long and how big can our trade deficit be before you would acknowledge something is wrong?

Or is that one figure (trade deficit) you will always dismiss?

"Pay no attention to the figure behind the curtain," says Mr. Sowell.

Mr. Sowell, I gave you some questions that must be answered.


We know all about unions
They're nothing but a bunch of lawyers with paid working hitmen driving up costs and corporations are a bunch of CEO's with paid management hitmen to drive up profits/shareholder value and both paying off Congress to keep this song and dance going. Both should be analyzed by private auditors who answer to the new fair tax authority that replaces the IRS. No govt welfare for either of them and the only break they get is by growing the business, investing in America and keeping Americans employed. And this should be required of every job including athletes, TV/radio personalities and actors as well as unions and govt workers (incl politicians).

Jim
Democrats didn't add the Communist Manifesto to our Constitution. Democrats made the Communist Manifesto their entire party platform, and ignore the Constitution.
If Howard dean and other democrats hadn't passed all those many high taxes, there would be many millions more jobs, everything-including food- would cost 1/3 less, and nobody would go to bed hungry.

Same old same old
Prof. Sowell trots out the same old conservative anti-union arguments that were tired in the 19th century. However, conservatives won't have any problems with this.

So the problems of the rust belt will be solved by breaking unions? Business will fire up and everybody will have jobs. Nah. Not going to happen. Those jobs lost to China and elsewhere won't come back. The jobs workers in the rust belt will find available, expecially if unions are weakened or destroyed, will pay lower wages than unions were able to get in their heyday.

For a while, when the auto workers, the steel workers, and others had strong unions, working class Americans in today's rust belt were able to acquire at least some of the attributes of the middle class: increases in real disposable income, relative financial stability due in large part to the benefits packages conservatives so despise, and more. For conservatives, all of this was simply extorted from employers, and thus none of it is worth trying to protect.

The true vindictiveness of the right is always visible in its reflexive hatred of unions. Economists like Sowell really believe that the negotiated wages of union contracts are unjust, and this nonsense from someone in a profession which rejects the very concept of 'justice' as merely subjective bias.

I grew up in the rust belt--southern Michigan--and I recall that the riches supposedly drained vampire-like from employers by unionized construction workers like my father allowed us to own our own home, buy a car every few years, and just maybe take a week's vacation a few hundred miles north in fishing country. That, plus health insurance, and obviously the result was a level of material well-being for a blue collar family which conservatives find profoundly objectionable.

Class conflict? You're d*** right.

Talent Scout

Touche.

However, many of the Republicans are NOT commies, and some who are - or SEEM to be - are merely bowing to the altar of social security and medicare. Also, as Ron notes so well above, the Democrats have, indeed, embraced the Communist Mafifesto as the most important part of their platform.

Jim From Communist Oregon

It got that way because half the people in Oregon are unreformed, unrepentant Californios.

Your ignorance of economics is right in there with almost everyone else's. You sound just like all the labor union newsletters and propaganda pamphlets that I have seen in over thirty years with the railroad industry.

You have a very dismal view of things, and what you list in your diatribe is only partially correct.

Manufacturing jobs are leaving for many reasons. One big one is tax policy. Others include onerous regulations from EPA, OSHA, LCDC, etc, etc. Another reason is that many of these jobs require very little skill and can be performed just as well - and cheaper - by people in other countries. You have a problem with that? Don't complain to ME about it. Go get your fellow travelers like Ron Wyden and his friends in labor to address it properly.

Free Trade: We do not enjoy "free trade." Never have, never will. Politicians are too smug in their abject ignorance to let us have free trade.

Ron
You've convinced me but what about the millions of Obamaniacs? They all are victims of either corporate greed, racism, homophobia, cultural rape, uncaring republicans or just bad mojo so change has to be good!

LOL, speaking of the Constitution
today is the anniversary of the Constitution becoming effective. On this day in 1789....

As for unions being made to look bad, Sowell doesn't have to do much for that. They are doing it all on their own and they are dieing out as we speak. This is why they wanted the new "no secret" elections.

To Gestelle:
Don't place all Conservatives in one basket.

No, unions have their place, they have contributed to the material benefit of the working man. They have been abused and in turn have abused.

No organization of man is free of corruption.

But many of the folks, here, are implacably management. Or capital if you like.

There is a distinction between Conservative and management. They are not the same.

I agree with you, that many of these folks are union bashers.

For Republicans, that is self-defeating.

To damn unionists, is to damn the Republican Party out of office. Why? Because many union members are Republicans. Ohio gave Bush the White House in '04 and went with him in 2000.

Management is a group of people allowed to act as single individual legal person. So should labor be allowed to act as a single individual legal person. Fair is fair, right.

Well, alot of management types don't see it that way. But I repeat, not all Conservatives are against unions, and neither are Republicans.

The management/capital types that want to denigrate the sweat of the brow of labor need to be exposed for the self-interested position they take. Productivity gains that labor helped to achieve? No credit given by capital to labor.

That is wrong.



To ThunderThud:
I list facts, got a problem with that.

I never even mentioned unions in the comment you responded to.

Ad hominem name calling reveals someone who doesn't have an argument.

You say I'm ignorant of economics, but you don't point to a single fact I list as wrong.

You certainly don't assemble an argument as to why these facts are meaningless as you imply by calling me a Communist.

Are you insulted because I dare list economic facts that are inconvenient to your preferred narrative?

Can't you handle the truth without name calling in response?

Yes, I have a problem with that. Your rational if taken to its logical conclusion will take all American jobs off-shore. So yes, I do got a problem with that.

You call me a Communist? What do we call people like you?

But I do agree with you in one respect. It's really "managed" trade, not free trade. "Free" is the label put on it to make it sell.

It's manipulated by foreign governments and foreign corporations and even corporations that claim to be American.


My union story
I never belonged to one. Refused to join the only time I was eligible. My first wife's parents both worked for GM. He was mgmt, she was a line worker. My wife worked at the plant two summers under a program for college students. I learned many things during that time.

One was a work rule requiring a relief worker for every 6 or 7 line workers to provide them an opportunity to use the bathroom etc. Sounds great. The line never stops even when producing defective cars, oops, blame that one on mgmt. The practice was this. Being a relief worker was a highly sought job. Why? The attitude was you no longer had to work. That' right. Permanent vacation with pay, the average worker's dream. The result? Line workers worked two jobs when their neighbor next door had to take a shitt because, relief workers were nonexistent. They were sleeping in the break room, hiding out in empty crates, whatever they could find. An entire class of worker paid for doing nothing was the aspiration of every hard working person at the plant. Someone else said it best. Unions are just like government. They were needed when government was nonexistent. Now they are redundant and simply waste member's hard earned money.

Gestell
writes, "Economists like Sowell really believe that the negotiated wages of union contracts are unjust, and this nonsense from someone in a profession which rejects the very concept of 'justice' as merely subjective bias"

Learned a lot about you reading that post! The light comes on. Don't shoot the messenger Gestell. Thomas is merely relaying the fact that the market found those contracts unjust. How do we know this? Let me count the jobs. He does not say they were not agreed to. It is equally mmgt and labors' fault but, the market is speaking and the jobs are disappearing. The reason is, imo, equal part mgmt decisions, union greed, and political pandering through regulationa and taxation. The market doesn't care. It simply reacts.

Largest Labor Force
A good homework lesson would be to look at the largest employers in your city and state. If you add all of the government workers together you will find collective government as the single largest employer in your city or state. The USPS is the single largest employer in the world. I taught computer classes to several government agencies in DC until I couldn't take it anymore. There is no wonder they work for the gov, they couldn't make it in the real world. They produce nothing and only make life miserable for the rest of us. Their retirement with benefits is what is and will bring this country down financially. While jobs are shrinking gov jobs are expanding at an alarming rate. Talk about "fiddling" while Rome burns - Our gov is a disgrace and they keep adding new ways of increasing.

The problem is force
There is one argument that nobody is mentioning. There is nothing wrong with unions in and of themselves. If a group of employees want to collectively bargain with their employer, there is nothing wrong with this, economically or otherwise. The problem occurs when force enters into it. An example of this occurs when there is a strike and the employer hires so-called 'scabs' to fill in while the strike is going on. Often the strikers will disrupt the business or threaten, assault or damage property of the scabs or business owners and because government is in the pockets of the unions, they don't face any repercussions. This is where the unions go wrong. If the employers were not being coerced by these tactics into giving into the demands of the unions, there would be no problem.

Amen Dr. Sowell
I was born and raised in Michigan and graduated from the University of Michigan. Do you think I currently live in Michigan? No. The unions have ruined Michigan's economy and corrupted it's government.

Michigan voters reelected Jennifer Granholm in Nov 2006--they obviously are ignorant and deserve the economy and government for which they voted.

Michigan has been run by Democrats for as long as I can remember. It should be utopia--the Democrat dream of big government. Government is the answer to every problem a citizen could face. Government working hand in hand with organized labor should be heaven on earth.

The facts appear to be irrelevant to voters in Michigan and the rust belt. It would be a miracle if Dr. Sowell's editorial appeared in the Lansing State Journal or the Detroit Free Press. Is anyone willing to bet if either paper prints it?

reply to Hitchhiker
No conventional economist would write what you wrote: "Thomas is merely relaying the fact that the market found those contracts unjust." "The market" can't do anything or think anything--it is an abstraction either derived from theory (in this case, introductory microeconomics) or serving simply as a general term for what goes on in the economy.

If you insist on personifying what is a theoretically created abstraction, then at least state "its" judgment correctly. "The market" didn't find the contracts "unjust," it found them "insufficiently profitable." Or can't you tell the difference?

It's amazing...
...how prophetic Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is turning out to be. I just wish I knew where Galt's Gulch is. :)

reply to Jim from Oregon
I'm pleased to hear that there are conservatives who don't have a conditioned reflex against unions. From the comments most of the TH readers have made who've posted here, I guess I should assume that they're all working at high level management jobs for Fortune 500 companies or else living on coupons clipped from Mumsy's stock portfolio.

You're right to point out the extent to which union members were essential for Republican victories.

It's clear to me that conservatives have no substantive proposals to deal with the rust belt. They'll just invoke the market, regardless of what happens to people when their incomes crash and burn. And no, all those former factory workers out there are not going to retrain and become software designers, the way libertarians fantasize. They'll just have a harder time making ends meet and be unable to pay for adequate health care for themselves and their families. This is what conservatives mean when they prattle on about traditional values.


OK, OK Jim From Oregon

I did NOT call you a communist, and I apologize for the implication. I merely meant to point out that Oregon has become a hotbed of whacked out politics - partially attributable to a huge influx of Californios.

Some of the points you made were true. For example, you wrote: "Oil is at record highs over $100 a barrel. The Dollar is at record lows against the Euro. The Dollar has lost over half it's value against the Euro." Also, you pointed out that, "In 2007, America's trade deficit was about $800 billion." All true, except that none of that matters one way or the other. The weak dollar improves our ability to sell our goods overseas while it makes traveling abroad more expensive for us. A trade deficit is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It simply doesn't matter. You trade one thing for another. It is poor rhetoric to talk about a deficit. If I trade corn for money, I have a deficit of corn. We trade money for oil. Where's the problem?

Then you said we are heading into recession. Maybe, maybe not. That's strictly opinion and many financial people disagree.

The same goes for blue collar wage stagnation. That's just an opinion. Some probably HAVE experienced that, but I guarantee you that many others have done just fine. Wages are a function of productivity (unless unions get involved.) If productivity rises, so do wages and living standards.

And I reiterate: We have NEVER had a free market. We probably never will, but we should strive for it. The "relative" freedom of the American markets - the first instance in the history of mankind - is what has been responsible for this country becoming the richest, most economically dominant, most innovative, most productive country - in only three hundred years or so - in the history of the world.

You should marvel, not complain.

Unions
There 'was' a large steel mill in Johnson City PA which was a major if not the predominat source of income for that community. The union was given the choice of reducing costs to become competitive or closing the mill - of course they closed it - taking jobs away from their own sons and daughters. A "trick of management" they said. Along the river in Pittsburgh for 8 or 9 miles were steel mills - when the union was asked to help reduce costs - the union voted against it - a "trick of management" they said. Now there are parks and empty lots where the steel mills stood. The last time I was in Youngston OH it looked like a war zone - "trick of management" they said.

Gestell

I have a substantive proposal to deal with the rust belt. Ignore it.

Environmentalist whackos and compliant judges did away with tens of thousands of jobs and companies in the timber industry over the spotted owl issue and other, less famous hoaxes. Many of THOSE displaced did just fine after a period of pain.

Liberal, Democrat and liberal Republican policies contributed to the rust belt. They surely will NOT be able to repair the damage without simply getting out of the way. Democrat/Farmer/Labor alliances distort markets and mightily inhibit them.

Look at the vibrancy of America's railroads AFTER the Staggers Rail Act. (Signing that legislation was perhaps the shining high-point of the Carter presidency.)

Loyal Democrat
I really hope you're kidding. If not, please go to your nearest church and ask the preacher to pray for you.

Jim from Oregon
You are correct that management acts as a single voice. Why? To protect self interest. All parties in the political discussion act from self interest. Labor should do so as well. The problem? The MANAGEMENT of labor (unions) take that too literally and act from PERSONAL self interest, not from the long term interest of the body. You sound like a logical guy, so I assume you see the difference.

Government as Business incubator
Dear Mr Sowell,

The government is always ready to solve your problems. In my town they have a non-for-profit funded by tax money to teach those interested and already engaged in business how to grow for a sliding scale fee.

Then the localities, States or Countries like the US, Canada and China can develop industries that are either needed or wanted.

According to my local politicians they so it so much better than the free market because they have control over land use.

They can not only create business but also drive away unwanted business.

According to them, who needs free enterprise when you have a Democratic controlled City Council.


Whenever cost of labor is....
compared the cost of USA labor will be higher than outside the USA. Our life style is higher than any place. So if we cannot get the higher wages then we will have to cheapen our life style.

The first way to cheapen our life style is to reduce the Federal spending so we reduce the tax load on the working people.

The second way to cheapen our life style is to change the tax gathering method from income tax to excise tax. Everyone pays a sales tax at purchase time and business do not pay tax. The jobs lost over seas will come back.

The third way to cheapen our life style is to send the illegals home and get government out of the health care business. With government out of health care the cost of medical care will come down.

The fourth way to cheapen our life style is to get the government out of being a planned retirement provider. Social security was a risky idea at best and like any ponzi scheme the last ones on board get nothing.

The fifth way to cheapen our life style is to start pumping our own oil from Alaska and off shore. That would drive the cost of oil from OPEC down as it did in the past. Would be nice to see $1 per gallon gas again.

I am sure there are many other ways to cheapen our life style.

Mr. Sowell...
You write, "Americans who can vote would do well to start spending more time thinking about economic realities, instead of being swept away by political rhetoric."

People in states like Ohio and Michigan have done plenty of thinking about such things. Their conclusion is that they don't like the 'economic realities' NAFTA has brought them. I suggest you read Pat Buchanan's article on NAFTA. In particular, read about how protectionist America has been in the past, and what growth ensued.

Your suggestion to the labor force is to simply bend over and keep under-bidding one another for work until we live like third-world citizens. The labor supply is far more competitive than the demand for labor, and the failures in the labor market work in favor of business. Even ignoring that, the labor supply curve has been and always will be far more inelastic than the demand for labor. People can be replaced by capital, but wages can't be replaced by anything.

Get something straight: before NAFTA, these people were fine. The rust belt didn't kill the goose. NAFTA did. For any change in a dependent variable, you must have a change in an independent variable, and NAFTA carried with it a heckuva lot of change for the worse.

Retired Geek
Let me add a fillup to what Gestell said. [Fact is I wondered if Gestell has been stealing my stuff]

Just as "the market" is an abstraction so is government. I don't know if you are a conservative, but this is something conservatives never seem to learn.

I suggest that you do the hard thinking work, Retired Geek and add up what government is. And the first thing it is is our own creation. Like Pogo says.

Proud Liberal -- Abstractions
quoth Proud Liberal:

"Just as "the market" is an abstraction so is government."

"And the first thing [government] is is our own creation."

Therefore you shouldn't have any problems with our trying to change it into something closer to what we think it should be.

You don't mind if we vote away your right to tell us what to do, right? Right?

Retired Geek is obviously saying that government is the largest employer, and that's bad. The larger it becomes, the more power it has, the more it meddles in the affairs of the market and the people, the worse it makes things for everyone. Therefore, since this "abstraction" of government is but a creation of the people, it's up to us to try to get said "abstraction" to be smaller.

Which, I think, is what most of us have been trying to do.

BTW -- as "abstractions" go -- Tell me it's an "abstraction" when they penalize you for donating too much money to your favorite politician, or telling people to vote for him/her too close to election day.

Proud Liberal
I have worked in abstraction for many years, It is called object oriented programming. Any object whether it is gov or market or a dog has properties and data. The USPS e.g. passed off packages because it is hard work to be profitable. Electronic mail and devices such as Blackberries and Iphones are killing snail mail and yet this gov agency grows and continues to retire thousands with large retirements and benefits. SPAM mail and non-profits gets huge discounts leaving the brunt of their continuing rate increases on the back of those who are poor or not tech enough. The only automation they have come up with is to use block letters and no punctuation for their scanners. This is an abyssmal failure because gov schools teach cursive writing and punctuation. Typical gov morass - whatever is abstract and theoritical needs its data and properties examined. When something doesn't work it is either logic, improper design or ID10T problems. Liberals need to make their minds conform to reality instead of trying to make reality conform to their minds. When it comes to economics or the market etc. I will proudly let Dr. Sowell speak for me!!

To JRPetruk and ThunderThuddl:
JRPetruk:
Yes, I recognize the difference between the leadership of the unions and the members. I agree with your characterization for the most part.

ThunderThudd:
And you weren't implying I was part of that "wacked out" group. Please. No matter.

I disagree with your belief trade deficits don't matter. Most economists do believe trade deficits matter. Admittedly, they were flummoxed, as to why it wasn't having more effect, and some even started to say, "It didn't matter." But economists were not considering the powerful effect of the Dollar being the World Reserve Currency, which insulated us from the usual inflation that comes from trade deficits.

But even that "fire wall" is starting to erode.

The trade deficit is definitely causing the Dollar to tank (along with rate cuting by the Fed) and oil to shoot up (along with World demand).

To say it doesn't matter is to "whistle past the graveyard."

And to go against accepted theories of political-economy.

Your original comment suggested a "knee jerk" reaction against my comment because it offended your recieved dogma. Your god ("free" trade) is turning to ashes.

I know it's hard to see your god kicked in the groin.



I work in a union shop
Unions are great for union members and their families in the short run. I have great benefits and higher pay than I'm probably worth. However, the company is slowly going under. My job is gradually getting outsourced due to the high costs of hiring union members whom demand great benefit packages, high pay and many other perks that nonunion members do not enjoy.

A Potential Solution For The Rust Belt
People have been writing about the problems of the Rust Belt since the Reagan era. It's apparent that labor hasn't yet figured things out. But, of course, that's no surprise. The so-called union leadership doesn't want them to know. As stated previously in this venue, the root of much of their problem is due to a lack of financial education. Here is a concept that many may consider radical but it might go a long way to re energize the industrial heartland, so here goes: You are not employed, especially at an hourly wage, to make money. Instead, you are there to make a living.That's very different. If you want to make money (which we highly encourage you to do), then you need an investment. Could be a small biz on the side, or some local real estate, or learning how to trade the capital markets, or whatever. All of these things are available to you as an American, especially if you have a computer.If you don't know how to do them, there are innumerable books,or other media that can teach you. This, in contrast to the notion that, at the conclusion of every labor contract, you should get more pay for either the same or less work. Oh, yeah, that may sound good, but those higher labor contracts have a definite ripple effect throughout the economy. It ends up raising the cost of living, cost of doing business, the cost of government, and worse, an ongoing diminishing of the value of the dollar. And, as others have written in this forum, you simply make yourselves less and less competitive in the international labor market place. So the next time some union boss waves a new contract proposal with higher pay under your noses, you can know that he's not really doing you a favor. Obama, Hillary, and their minions are all blathering on about change in this election cycle. But if you really want change, you must start with yourselves first. Otherwise, ain't much gonna happen.

Gestell - Re: Same old same old
Re: Your post of Tuesday, March, 04, 2008 3:05 PM Same old same old

I'm sorry that you have such a large chip on your shoulder.

Here are a few questions for you:

1. Do auto workers today deserve the same pay rate and benefits package (adjusted for inflation) as that of the industry's "hey day"?

2. Which jobs deserve pay packages which provide "at least some of the attributes of the middle class"? Which jobs do not?

3. Are all negotiated contracts automatically beneficial to both sides? Is it possible that a negotiated contract may result in hurting both parties?

The airline industry is similar
My dad was a Pan American pilot and always systematically refused to strike whenever the occassion arose. His opinion? "This is the best part time job anyone could ever imagine, and there is a line that can go 'round the world of those waiting to be in our shoes." Far too many Americans have not understood this, and now we are finished.

Retired Geek
LOVE your 8:33 post.

I am regularly appalled by the inability of those who think of themselves as "progressive" to take in new information and do the math!

I'm dealing with a group of progressives who want NJ state to transport the extended families of thousands of Nigerian illegals here AND get them on social security RIGHT AWAY!! The housing, feeding, education, etc... are just given! No math skills among these Yentes- none at all.

Post hoc sed propter hoc
Since some of the economic problems came after NAFTA, NAFTA must have caused the problems. Wrong! That is a logical fallacy, and Dr. Sowell is right. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

Jim From Oregon

Yes, I DID implie that you were a communist and I apologized for that. I didn't MEAN to imply that even though I did. (It slipped past my powerful brane.) PLEASE forgive me.

Economists argue - cogently on all sides - that trade imbalances matter, don't matter, might matter - depending. I am of the opinion that they don't matter to us right now. We can afford it, so we buy more than we sell. Much of what we spend returns immediately to purchase US government debt. Paying the interest on that huge debt - now THERE is a problem. That keeps our taxes higher than they need to be and thus keeps our life-styles inhibited. Also when the principle ultimately must be paid there may be tremendous pain.

As for the "free market," it has been alternately kicked in the groin, then massaged in the groin for centuries. The American version, still in its youth, has fared much better than most, thus our unprecedented wealth.

Your post that I originally responded to still reminds me of the myriad labor union tracts I was inundated with for years. My union leaders (God blessed those benighted folks) never, ever had a realistic vision of economics.

Trade Unions
Trade Unions negotiated for wages and retirement benefits. The things that makes people want to immigrate to the US to secure. Good wages and a good life.

the auto companies that we now compete with in Japan, and Germany, their Governments provide retirement and health care benefits. It is not a level playing field. Put a manufacturing plant in Mexico and you can hire workers for $2.00 per hour. considering many in mexico live in 1.00 per day thats good wages. It is not a level playing field.

just take a look at how many Americans can't get medical care and how many are living in poverty with no minimal retirement systems paid by the company they devoted 30 -40 years of their working lives. .

Free Trade Zombies Unite and Take Over !
Dr. Sowell,

First: I believe in true free trade. i.e.- NO tariffs 100% of the time-- NO tariffs levied by ANY trading partner-- ever.

Unfortunately, such a scenario is a fool's dream in today's world.


True free trade is clearly not what NAFTA and other managed trade agreements have yielded (To hell with intent). Therefore your stalwart support of such agreements is disingenuous to say the least, and perhaps even pernicious given the economic reality that faces the USA today. That is if you truly give a beggars damn about the USA. The fact is that nobody could be so foolish as to still think NAFTA benefits to the USA outweigh the negatives. A few speculators have benefited perhaps, but not the country as a whole.

You say, "Senator Obama says that he is for free trade, provided it is "fair trade." That is election year rhetoric at its cleverest."


True free trade is FAR from rhetoric, however the FAKE fair trade embodied in NAFTA and many other trade agreements is rhetoric in an election year or any other season for that matter, and one of the cleverest deceptions ever foisted on the American public.

BTW- I am no supporter of Obama or Hilary in any way. I supported Duncan Hunter-- someone who evidently has more sense and integrity than this modern, "intelligent" electorate deserves.


Free Trade Zombies Unite etc...Part II
You say, "Toyota, Honda, and others who took away more and more of the Big Three automakers' market share, leading to huge job losses in Detroit, proved once again the old trite saying that there is no free lunch."

Agreed, there is no free lunch, and Detroit failed to act sensibly at a critical time. Yet you and those of your ilk dine upon the spoils of a ruined US economy knowing full well that your "level playing field" is but a joke.

NEW RULE (as that damned fool Bill Maher says):

Do NOT praise so called free trade as the Be All and End All of Economic existence and success, and then in the next breath praise to high heaven the success of Toyota, Honda or ANY other Japanese company. These companies have succeeded in an environment where their home country has maintained one of the MOST protectionist economic stances in the entire history of the world. Hardly an endorsement of the value of free trade to say the least.

Go ahead, waste your breath defending so called “free trade agreements” by way of an entity that does not practice it now, nor has it ever. Your glory is assured-- however with your next breath make us proud-- fall upon your economic sword when you make an example of Japan to support your "free trade" case.

'nough said.

Hara-kiri never struck me so sweet.

Have a nice day:)







Rescuing?
Another stellar column Doc, do you see what's happening now, the rust belt trade unions are partnering with locals and are going after Casinos on Indian Reservations. These union leaders are always looking for new fresh sources of moolah. It's what drives them, they could care less about an actual worker-as long as said worker forks over union dues these future Floridians are happy, happy guys.

Borsodi was right
Decentralization, not centralization, is the answer, because humans are individuals, not monoliths.
For whatever reason, libs can't comprehend the inherent conflict between producer and consumer which exists in the heart and mind of each individual: we all want to get paid as much as possible for our own time, labor and produce, at the same time we all want to pay as little as possible for the "other guy's" time, labor and produce.
By definition, this INHERENT human conflict cannot be solved politically. It can only be solved by a free marketplace (100% devoid of coercion) comprised of willing sellers and willing buyers. That way, prices can, and will, seek their own level, because humans will naturally channel their labor into whatever pays them best.
Socialism is anathema to the spiritual and intellectual essence of the human individual. It will have to be polarized to be gotten rid of.
Government has only two choices, 1) more control, or 2) less control (more freedom). Government ALWAYS opts for more control, and always grows itself. Hence Tolkien's ingenious metaphor, the One Ring of (political) Power.
Smart people will be learning their survival skills. 22LR cartridges will be the medium of exchange when the crunch comes. Smart people will stash a year's supply of food, and a five year supply of seeds for their subsistence gardens.
It's all well and good, even fun, to talk politics, but the economic handwriting is on the wall for those who are stout-hearted and honest enough to look at it.
For those who are afraid to face Nature's realities, and too lazy to learn self-reliance and self-sufficiency, get ready for the reality of the implantation of RFID chips under your worthless hides!

sawdust vs. gashotdog
Actually, Pat Buchanan is every bit as "smart" as Sowell and Williams. It's just that he's a historian and politician, while they are economists.
The main "error" (actually an ID10T problem) that the "free trade" feudalists make is a political one: when you centralize "government" to a global level, you make Power exponentially less accountable to, and controllable by, the individual (aka "the people").
Just because a person understands economic realities doesn't mean that he can afford to ignore political realities.
The whole idea behind global "free trade" is to install the transnational Venetian-style bankster families as feudalistic owners of the global monetary and trade structure so they can take their "piece of the action" out of every human's time, labor and produce.
Those so-called "free traders" who can't grasp the political realities need to watch Aaron Russo's documentary, "America: Freedom to Fascism" at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-165688030386739017 3.

reply to wjriii
My responses to your questions.


1. Do auto workers today deserve the same pay rate and benefits package (adjusted for inflation) as that of the industry's "hey day"?

Clearly, salaries are the result of the workings of the market. I don't propose government regulation of salaries. See answer to next question.

2. Which jobs deserve pay packages which provide "at least some of the attributes of the middle class"? Which jobs do not?

What needs to be done is to disconnect completely such things as health insurance from the workplace. Ditto for pensions. The auto companies will wind up like many other companies, completely unable to meet their pension obligations. I think health insurance should be handled by a combination of government provision and incentives for insurers and health care providers to cover the workers. Pensions could be handled in a similar way.

3. Are all negotiated contracts automatically beneficial to both sides? Is it possible that a negotiated contract may result in hurting both parties?

Sure. Nothing guarantees anything when it comes to whether or not the result of a negotiation is helpful or harmful.


Liberal Conundrum
Yes, economics are an abstraction, the abstraction of the survival of the fittest. If that business doesn't work, it's gone. Just the opposite seems to happen with government agencies. Failing schools? give 'em more money.

Many liberals reject creationism and embrace evolution. Yet centralized control in the all power state more closely resembles a creationist perspective than an evolutionary perspective.

Maybe liberals have found their god in the state.

Gestell - Please explain
I was struck by the difference between your original post, summarized by the last paragraph "Class conflict? You're d*** right.", attributing the conflict to conservatives who exhibit "reflexive hatred" and vindictiveness, and your response, which sounded positively conservative in nature.

Do conservatives specifically and actively wish to deny "material well-being for a blue collar family"?

Do you support full wage packages, including health care and pensions, as you seemed to in the case of your father, or are you in favor of individuals arranging for them?

Could it be that the benefits from which UAW members benefited may have contributed to the current plight of the auto industry today?

How much does your definition of a "just wage contract" depend on the concepts of what workers deserve as a matter of "human rights" as opposed to what the market will bear?

Where in your response is the class conflict of which you were so strident in your original post?

edwardo
first many Chrisitans see no contradiction between evolution and creationism.

if God created evolution it is still his creation right?

you want to stereotype liberals but liberals just like conservatives come in many colors (so to speak).

there are fiscal conservatives, social conservatives etc...

just like there are religious liberals, environmental liberals , mainstream liberals etc..

to try an pretend that millions up[on millions of liberals all think and act alike is illogical.

Rescuing the Rust Belt
I have said for years that the unions are killing American industry a little at a time, kind of like a cancer.

These people think they can demand fifty thousand dollars a year to turn a wrench on a assembly line, and that the company they work for is not going to look for a way to cut these costs. Then they are dumbfounded when they come to work one day and find that the job they are doing is going to be sent to Mexico where a guy will do the same job for fifteen thousand dollars a year a be glad that he has a job.

What the union worker does not realize is that the job he does is not his job. That job belongs to the company and they are paying him to do the work for them!

This just illustrates the mental capacity of your average union worker!

If John McCain weren't a total putz...
--
...he'd get down on his knees and beg Thomas Sowell to stand as his vice-presidential candidate.

And then he'd publish his (SECRET! *CLASSIFIED*) personal health records to reveal the sordid details pertinent to the likelihood that he's going to drop dead in a year or two.

With the prospect of a *PRESIDENT* Thomas Sowell in view, we'd surely gut it up and vote for Arizona's antidote to the Bill of Rights in November.

And, brother, wouldn't you like to see what Dr. Sowell could do to Barack Hussein Obama in a public confrontation that Mocha Marvin can't run away from?




------------
"I'm always embarrassed when people say that I'm courageous. Soldiers are courageous. Policemen are courageous. Firemen are courageous. I just have a thick hide and disregard what silly people say."

-- Thomas Sowell

"Fair" Trade
Fair trade is where you have to pay for a room full of government bureaucrats to sit around and have committee meetings and to fall asleep at their desk and you have to pay even more for businesses to hire staff to sort through the tangle of paper work the government issues and haphazardly processes.

religiouslib: read more carefully

When someone says "many of group X" it does not mean "all of group X" as you seem to take my meaning. And regarding your quip about God created evolution, I don't see the relevance to my argument.

Let me know when you disagree.

1. A higher percentage of liberals than conservatives reject creationism.

2. Many liberals reject creationism and embrace evolution.

3. Business/economic rules mimic evolution.

4. More liberals than conservatives believe in large government, which is antithetical to business and its evolutionary nature.

5. The state is the new God for many liberals.

The Rust Belt
I was there when it happened. An eye-witness. I remember Sly Stalone and his television commercial for Flint, MI. 13% unemployment, double-digit stagflation, the Misery Index, gas lines. This was Jimmy Carter's legacy and my father somehow survived the auto industry's death spiral and kept his union job with Chevrolet. Read the the truth in "Rivethead". I forget the author, but look it up. Do it before you pass judgement regarding the auto industry.

Health Insurance Question
A question for the liberals out there:

If the government pays your health and accident insurance should they also begin to pay your car insurance and home owner's insurance?

The disaterous legacy costs of the US automotives are not related to pension payments, but to the free-ride health care they agreed to.

Just why should personal healthcare be free? Hell, why not free groceries, free housing and free personal transportation? And, Proud Liberal please do not respond by agreeing that the state should provide all of these things - I want to see how many REAL liberals will respond that the state should give us all of these things.

old progrmr
"If the government pays your health and accident insurance should they also begin to pay your car insurance and home owner's insurance?....Hell, why not free groceries, free housing and free personal transportation? "

Shhhh! Don't give the liberals any more ideas!

Tunnel vision...
When you go into combat, you develop tunnel vision, you only see the enemy in front of you, when you are in crisis, when your family may go hungry, you only see the situation in front of you, you don't really see the real causes of this situation, and any fool with the ability to move emotions, becomes a savior.

Such is the "great" B. H. Obama's appeal.

While promissing to drag our Nation into socialism, the common people only see his words of "hope".

http://thinkingamerican.blogtownhall.com
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