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Thursday, February 28, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Cold Water on "Global Warming"
by Thomas Sowell
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It has almost become something of a joke when some "global warming" conference has to be cancelled because of a snowstorm or bitterly cold weather.

But stampedes and hysteria are no joke -- and creating stampedes and hysteria has become a major activity of those hyping a global warming "crisis."

They mobilize like-minded people from a variety of occupations, call them all "scientists" and then claim that "all" the experts agree on a global warming crisis.

Their biggest argument is that there is no argument.

A whole cottage industry has sprung up among people who get grants, government agencies who get appropriations, politicians who get publicity and the perpetually indignant who get something new to be indignant about. It gives teachers something to talk about in school instead of teaching.

Those who bother to check the facts often find that not all those who are called scientists are really scientists and not all of those who are scientists are specialists in climate. But who bothers to check facts these days?

A new and very different conference on global warming will be held in New York City, under the sponsorship of the Heartland Institute, on March 2nd to March 4th -- weather permitting.

It is called an "International Conference on Climate Change." Its subtitle is "Global Warming: Truth or Swindle?" Among those present will be professors of climatology, along with scientists in other fields and people from other professions.

They come from universities in England, Hungary, and Australia, as well as from the United States and Canada, and include among other dignitaries the president of the Czech Republic.

There will be 98 speakers and 400 participants.

The theme of the conference is that "there is no scientific consensus on the causes or likely consequences of global warming."

Many of the participants in this conference are people who have already expressed skepticism about either the prevailing explanations of current climate change or the dire predictions about future climate change.

These include authors of such books as "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1500 Years" by Fred Singer and Dennis Avery, and "Shattered Consensus," edited by Patrick J. Michaels.

This will be one of the rare opportunities for the media to hear the other side of the story -- for those old-fashioned journalists who still believe that their job is to inform the public, rather than promote an agenda.

The subtitle of the upcoming conference -- "Global Warming: Truth or Swindle?" -- is also the title of a British television program that is now available on DVD in the United States. It is a devastating debunking of the current "global warming" hysteria.

Nobody denies that there is such a thing as a greenhouse effect. If there were not, the side of the planet facing away from the sun would be freezing every night.

There is not even a lot of controversy over temperature readings. What is fundamentally at issue are the explanations, implications and extrapolations of these temperature readings.

The party line of those who say that we are heading for a global warming crisis of epic proportions is that human activities generating carbon dioxide are key factors responsible for the warming that has taken place in recent times.

The problem with this reasoning is that the temperatures rose first and then the carbon dioxide levels rose. Some scientists say that the warming created the increased carbon dioxide, rather than vice versa.

Many natural factors, including variations in the amount of heat put out by the sun, can cause the earth to heat or cool.

The bigger problem is that this has long since become a crusade rather than an exercise in evidence or logic. Too many people are too committed to risk it all on a roll of the dice, which is what turning to empirical evidence is.

Those who have a big stake in global warming hysteria are unlikely to show up at the conference in New York, and unfortunately that includes much of the media.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Meanwhile in Canada
Today it is -25 degrees. We have had more snow in February than we have ever had in the history of recorded snowfall -- and twice as much snow as we have had in the past two years combined. More is on the way. In short, it is February in Canada and it will not be spring until May. (I have photos from 1977 of an apartment complex in which I lived, with a sign saying "Pool opens Memorial Day." The sign is virtually buried in snow.)

I put Global Warming in the same class with Oat Bran, Psyllium Fibre, twisty Dragnet light bulbs with mercury in them, 1950s comic books and second hand smoke -- yet more whining to try to force me to cower in the belief that the world is going to end before 5:00 tonight unless I stop doing everything I enjoy and do only what others tell me to do.

Sorry, Charlie. With the exception of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI and his superior officers, that dog will not hunt. Life is too short. Begone.


Death of Science
The Royal Society in England, one of the original national academies of science, has a slogan carved on its building in Latin that translates as "On the authority of none."

This was the hallmark science that emerged in the Enlightenment and tried to serve as the basis for objective and rational thought as opposed to the subjectivity and appeal to faith of religion.

How things have changed. Now we are screamed at by the so-called scientists that we must take their word and opinions as fact and if we dare even question them they want to burn us at the stake. At least nowadays the burning is figurative rather than literal.

Thomas Sowell
writes, "This will be one of the rare opportunities for the media to hear the other side of the story -- for those old-fashioned journalists who still believe that their job is to inform the public, rather than promote an agenda."

Yes, quite old-fashioned. It is similary old-fashioned for teachers to think their job is teaching facts. Facts are old-fashioned. According to liberals, all the facts are in. Everything we need to know, we already know. The game at this point is for teachers and the media to convince people of the correct interpretation of those facts. You know, socialism is good, capitalism is bad and so forth. The natural result of man placing his faith in himself and his own wisdom. When most people placed their faith in God, such things as global warming would have been laughed at.

It really is a religious issue. The millions of self professed christians who place their faith in Al Gore or place their faith in socialist government are in for a rude awakening someday. I can imagine them arguing their actions on judgement day. But, I voted to take my brethren's liberty away and money away to help the poor, it was for a good cause.

I don't want to start a Mormon argument here but, it would help people if they examined it rather than just dismissed them as kooks because they think Jesus and Satan were brothers. According to LDS teaching we are all brothers, every single one of us including Jesus and Satan.

Satan said, Father I will bring all the people you create back to you. It is simple. Do not give them a choice. The socialist, communist, fascist ideology. If given a choice, people might make the wrong one. He was dismissed.

Jesus said, Father I will show them the way. I agree with your plan and will sacrifice myself for them that they may learn to make the right choice.

The conflicting ideologies we have are the same ones we had in the very beginning. Choice or no choice. Choose which plan you will follow.

Another great article!
Audi10, perfect reply! Debunking the myth makers and their hysterical sycophants is great to watch and even better to do yourself to your liberal family or acquaintances. It is great to have Dr. Sowell as a reference source as well. I have finished reading "Black Redneck and White Liberals" and it is a great read for debunking myths with reason and evidence. I recommend everyone buy a copy for your liberal friends and family to read, it should either wake them up or drive them batty!

Too Much Money Involved to Kill It
There are too many people with too much money at stake for the Global Warming (now called climate change because of the record snowfall and cooler temperatures in places) to go away. It will have to be killed with much angush and gnashing of teeth. We have too many politicians whose pockets are lined by lobbists and political action committees whose existence is totally dependent on the existence of Global warming. They latched on to something (Carbon credits) that they think they can control.
They are all full of whale dung! Man can adversely affect the environment with gross pollution, but the average temperature is controlled by the sun and natural cycles. Get out of my pocket book and let our nation gain energy independence by drilling in ANWAR and off the florida and california coast. Let us build new refineries to reduce the bottleneck adding to the cost of gasoline.
Get the leftist out of control of the major media by ignoring them, turning off your televisions and quit buying the leftist bird cage liners. Tell Al Gore and his cadre of alarmists to go live in a teepee in Cuba!

History
Ice Ages
Non Ice Ages

Global Cooling or Gore Lying?

I have to add one thing
In the immortal words of one of my favorite lyricists, a member of one of my favorite bands, Rush:

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

A crusade
The key part of this article, for me, is "this has long since become a crusade rather than an exercise in evidence or logic".

I believe that many global warming supporters are unaware of the facts - they simply believe what their 'leaders' have told them.

These leaders, at least many of them, do not really believe in global warming either. They just see it as a means to enact an agenda whereby they can expand the power of government to control the details of our lives (what size home or car I can have, how many miles I can drive, etc). I've heard one US Rep say "I would promote the global warming agenda even if I knew it was in error because it's the right thing to do". This is called 'the ends justifying the means' and it's wrong.

Keep resisting such people. I use ridicule. A simple laugh can have a big impact on people. I don't mean the "you're such a big jerk" kind of laugh. I mean the more subtle "you don't really believe that nonsense, do you?" laugh. Find whatever works for you and use it. We can turn the tide on this issue, one person at a time.

A Convenient Lie
The bottom line for the AGW dogma is not that it is supported by compelling scientific evidence - it's not - but it is such a perfect vehicle for almost every leftist agenda out there, from greenie ludditism thru "new urbanism" thru massive international wealth "redistribution" (via the "carbon tax") all the way to world socialist totalitarianism. The latter explains why the UN is so invested in it & why its creature the IPCC has been shamelessly doctoring its scaremongering reports to fit a preconceived alarmist template.

Isn't that such a convenient coincidence? The AGW Dogma happens to be the winning sweepstakes ticket to global totalitarianism.

Any legal institution or authority given any power to regulate CO2 will quickly get control of all energy use choices. Remember how the Endangered Species Act was about saving cute critters from hunting, but morphed into a land-grabbing monster?

It's not actually the scientists, mostly (though I'm sure a good many PhD's are lefties who yield to the temptation to skew conclusions to fit their worldview) but their employers and grant-givers, who are mostly government, rich leftists, & foundations controlled by leftists, who steer this issue.

Remember about 15 years ago when there was a big push to ban guns? There was a barrage of stupid "studies" in the Journal of the AMA & the New England Journal of Medicine purporting to compare guns to infectious diseases. The whole notion was debunked by John Lott among others.

Where is our "John Lott" for "global warming?" Could this be it? We can only hope.

Sowell's Understanding
" It has almost become something of a joke when some "global warming" conference has to be cancelled because of a snowstorm or bitterly cold weather."
----------------------------------------------
I seriously doubt Mr. Sowell understands the issue of Global Warming when he starts his article with this statement. Does he also doubt that his car engine is hot because the air conditioning is blowing cold air?

I suggest he check out the following web site to get a better understanding of the issue.

http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462

Why fight global warming?
I don't see why the left fights it so hard. It will bring about new species through evolutionary changes in animals, there will be few deaths from freezing, and fewer kids with thier tongues stuck to flagpoles.

I'm all for global warming, although I do support recycling efforts. Stop on by and find out how!

(Thanks for the blog plug opportunity Mr. Sowell! Loved Basic Economics, by the way. I just finished it!)

where is lily?
Gosh, I would expect her to report in here lol.

Global warming in a sense that humans caused it is a myth. To think we have that much of pull on the environment is crazy lol. Haven't any of these people just looked out the window of a plane and see that we take up such a small portion of the land and are like ants on this planet. Crazy I tell ya

Not even getting warmer, really
The claim that we need to clamp down CO2 generation to save the planet relies on three alleged statements of fact:

1) The earth is warming;
2) Man caused it; and
3) We can do something about it.

Of the three, until recently only the first item was truly not debatable. Today, ALL of them are debatable.

In the first place, global temperature readings have shown no warming at all since 1998, and temperatures plunged in 2007.

In the second place, the alleged warming in the 1990s was almost certainly the result of the loss of the Soviet Union's temperature stations. The Soviets provided a huge percentage of the world's cold-weather readings, and when the Soviet Union collapsed, they stopped reporting. It would be like measuring average height in an elementary school over several years, and the school stopped serving Kindergarten and 1st grade halfway through the study.

In the third place, temperatures were artificially inflated due to a Y2K error, making the 21st century seem hotter than it was.

In the fourth place, urban encroachment has introduced a hot-side bias into US temperature readings sufficient to explain ALL of the warming of the 20th century.

Summary: global warming may not even exist.

I explain all this at length on my blog today. http://www.plumbbobblog.com/?p=217, if you're interested.

Hitchhicker
well done on the "band of the millenium"!!
(although, that title never really stuck)
May I add,
"...everybody has to elevate from the norm"
What a band---you have me way off subject!!!
I will try to concentrate on work; keeping "signals" out of my head!!!

camanintx
I don't know much about the NewScientist but, from the their homepage I saw the following links.

U.S. Elections: Who it the greenest of them all.

Obama vs. Clinton Who has the better science policies?

I suppose we can dismiss the republican candidates since they don't believe in science. Sounds a little lefty to me.


Fighting a new religion
What would Al Gore be without global warming? And politicians must take sides or they aren't "concerned" enough. It's like the pseudo-Christian politicians who enter church (on camera) to prove their worthiness.

GW is more a religion than science. A "leader," such as Gore begins to bang a drum and make un-provable statements. The weak-minded are talked into believing, and highlight the inability to prove as proof in itself. The "atheists" in the crowd are scorned for asking "where is the proof?" and are told that it is safer to believe than suffer the consequences of disbelief.

And, like religion’s atheists, the anti-GW people are poorly organized. People who don’t believe also don’t feel a need to gather together to share their disbelief. Only when the drum beat of the GW atheists is loud enough will GW believers, agnostics and the weak minded begin to hear. And only when the anti-GW story is carried by people already trusted will the GW crowd begin to listen. Until then, the loudest voices will prevail and the weak-minded will follow.

Searching for relevance...
We already know that liberals are well-meaning yet a delusional lot. Let them scamper around trying to save the planet from the boogie man (global warming). As far as the U.S. goes, it will have no effect. They can do all of the "Chicken Little" impressions they want...this country runs on oil and nothing they do will change that.
If they are crazy enough to think that having meetings and banning incondescent light bulbs will save us, fine.

Let them continue in their quest for relevance. It'll keep them busy while regular folks go on about the business of raising kids, making the country better and working for a living.

Any proposed U.S. funding of a global warming hoax will get the same reception as the Amnesty Bill. It'll never happen.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing about it and I wish that conservatives would stop even giving them the attention that they so yearn for.

Hmmm
I think this latest lib crisis has already started to die out. I use this very column as evidence. As many of you know, a year ago when a column such as this one was posted on TH the GW believers would flood this site with posts screaming "hypocracy!" and then post a dozen links claiming to list the "evidence" of GW.

However, after two hours we only have one lone believer. Time to start working on the next crisis de' jour!

Why fight global warming?
One of Daddy's little parables is that if tomorrow the announcement was made that this time next year the world would be under 20 feet of water, the Catholics would pray for a miracle, the Protestants would file suit and the Jews would start learning to live under water.

Instead of bailing the ocean with a fork, why aren't these Global Warming/Climate Change ninnies figuring out how to live under water?

Hitchhiker
Whenever I see a pro-AGW reader post a site that "proves' the science behind global warming I direct them to junkscience.com and ask them to collect on his challenge. If they have convincing evidence of global warming, actual science, they can walk away quite a bit richer if they just visit junkscience.com.

Oddly enough, I have yet to see a poster here claim to have won his challenge, not have a I seen him say he has paid out.

Of course, his site is also a remarkable source of articles debunking not just AGW, but pesticide scares, the food nazis at CSPI, and a host of other pseudoscientific causes.


So, if any of you have conclusive proof of AGW, here is a chance to win $150K: http://ultimateglobalwarmingchallenge.com/

Sorry, when I see people telling me they have a link showing "the real science" I have to challenge them, as AGW is about science as much as astrology is.



Hitchhiker pt2
And I have to agree with you, it is quite amusing to see that the Republicans are completely left off the list of "science plans".

Then again, McCain actually buys into some of the greenie garbage, so I am surprised he is so reviled. Perhaps the hatred of the green crowd will convince him being a Kyoto-loving stooge is a bad move.

Scary side of AGW
What is most frightening about the AGW crowd is not that they contend global warming is occurring but that it is something that man can stop. If the earth is going through a warming trend, the notion that it is something we can stop will prevent us from preparing for it.

Sowell
Great article,especially since this winter has ACTUALLY been winter. Just shoveled off 5"of GW the other day. One thing the pro-AGW crowd could do would be to get a new spokesman out there. If your product ain't selling,sometimes you need to change the pitchman. The Goreacle has about as much "street cred" as I do. And that ain't much!

It's about Evil Man, not Global Warming
It is not the warming of the globe that has Liberals so energized. It is their belief that any such warming is the fault of man. Were it not for that, they would be far less interested in the whole matter. They do not seek facts to validate that the globe is warming so much as they seek global warming to validate that mankind is evil. Were that not the case, they would be agitating for the preservation of the environment for mankind rather than for the preservation of the environment from mankind.

Pity that; the former might actually attract the support of Conservatives. But then, if it is being done for mankind, then the cost to mankind would have to be considered wouldn’t it; and isn’t that the inconvenient point Conservatives are always trying to make; and wouldn’t that just spoil everything?

The perception of GW is the key
I read an email from a freind of my wife's who is running for senate here in MN. He was a Republican but is running as a Demoncrat.

I was upset that he bought the GW Kool Aid and is advocating increasing taxes (which have already been increased 6.6 billion ontop of our state govt stealing a 2.8 billion tax surplus..and they want more!!!) to see what Minnesota can do to stop GW.

I am tired of the lies, lets see some real fact, lets see some real debate. COME ON BRING IT!!!

_______________________________________
For good political discussion go to http://www.politicalgravitas.com

The truly scary thing
The truly scary thing about the Global Warming loons is that they've won.

Listen to the comments here; we all know it's scientifically nonsense. And yet, governments all over the planet are acting to cap CO2 (an economically self-destructive act at best). Even here in the US, where technological innovation has produced a decline in CO2 production without government restraint (while CO2 in Europe, even with its caps, is still increasing), BOTH candidates for President promise cooperation with international capitalism-haters.

We Republicans haven't learned how to combat these liars yet. We won the science debate, but they've still managed to leverage their lies into ever greater government control of our lives.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

The perception of GW is the key
I read an email from a freind of my wife's who is running for senate here in MN. He was a Republican but is running as a Demoncrat.

I was upset that he bought the GW Kool Aid and is advocating increasing taxes (which have already been increased 6.6 billion ontop of our state govt stealing a 2.8 billion tax surplus..and they want more!!!) to see what Minnesota can do to stop GW.
_______________________________________
For good political discussion go to http://www.politicalgravitas.com

The perception of GW is the key
I read an email from a freind of my wife's who is running for senate here in MN. He was a Republican but is running as a Demoncrat.

I was upset that he bought the GW Kool Aid and is advocating increasing taxes (which have already been increased 6.6 billion ontop of our state govt stealing a 2.8 billion tax surplus..and they want more!!!) to see what Minnesota can do to stop GW.
_______________________________________
For good political discussion go to http://www.politicalgravitas.com

billh
Why on earth would MINNESOTA be opposed to global warming? I thought everyone in that stated prayed Gore was right. If AGW is real, Minnesota may actual have a tolerable winter by 2100.

andrews
writes, "Then again, McCain actually buys into some of the greenie garbage, so I am surprised he is so reviled. Perhaps the hatred of the green crowd will convince him being a Kyoto-loving stooge is a bad move"

I think he might see AGW as just another boogeyman to be fought. It seems to be his M.O. It also nicely dovetails with his and the left's desire to micromanage our lives. If you haven't read this column on McCain, I highly recommend it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/weeklystandard/20080220/cm_weeklyst andard/themccaineconomicteam


Cause for skepticism
I'm curious as to why the global warming lobby also invariably opposes carbon free energy sources like hydroelectric dams and nuclear power. Of course no energy source is ecologically perfect but the aforementioned mechanisms are "carbon neutral" and not science fiction either. If global warming is the most serious environmental concern, then why would anyone advocate removal of carbon free energy plants before carbon emitting sources? This serious inconsistency makes me highly suspicious of the global warming movement.

Hitchhiker
I started to write to say why you were wrong about the Christian tie-in to the global warming crowd but then decided you are not worth my time. Keep showing your ignorance, many of us find it amusing.

Tibby

Global warming is real
and it is caused by human activity. John McCain agrees and will do whatever the UN demands.

Spread the word
We need to support this, make noise about it, share this, link it--it's about BLOODY time a conference like this came about. We need to tell our local stations to cover it, we need to email the networks to cover it, we need to urge SCHOOLS to find out more about this and DISCUSS them in their classrooms. We need this. America needs this, and it needs to be covered FAIRLY.


It's not even getting warmer, really
The claim that we need to clamp down CO2 generation to save the planet relies on three alleged statements of fact:

1) The earth is warming;
2) Man caused it; and
3) We can do something about it.

Of the three, until recently only the first item was truly not debatable. Today, ALL of them are debatable.

In the first place, global temperature readings have shown no warming at all since 1998, and temperatures plunged in 2007.

In the second place, the alleged warming in the 1990s was almost certainly the result of the loss of the Soviet Union's temperature stations. The Soviets provided a huge percentage of the world's cold-weather readings, and when the Soviet Union collapsed, they stopped reporting. It would be like measuring average height in an elementary school over several years, and the school stopped serving Kindergarten and 1st grade halfway through the study.

In the third place, temperatures were artificially inflated due to a Y2K error, making the 21st century seem hotter than it was.

In the fourth place, urban encroachment has introduced a hot-side bias into US temperature readings sufficient to explain ALL of the warming of the 20th century.

Summary: global warming may not even exist.

I explain all this at length on my blog today. http://www.plumbbobblog.com/?p=217, if you're interested.

The title of the conference should be...
'It's Not Nice To Fool Mother Nature!!!'

Like ethanol is a solution....it's the new margarine. In ten years libs will be hysterical realizing that ethanol is the 'transfat' of the atmosphere.

The Left and their false crises
Global warming fanatics remind me of the Good Samaritan who is stopped on the street and asked for directions. Even though he’s not sure of the way, he gives directions any way under the belief that any directions are better than none. This then results in the poor lost driver becoming even more lost than before, and with less gas and time to find his way.

Many experts agree that man-made or not, the actions and regulations proposed by Kyoto and other GW policy will have a negligible effect on the Earth’s temperature. For centuries people have toiled, sacrificed and struggled to improve the standard of living for people all around the world. How much of that are we willing to sacrifice for a negligible change in the environment? And maybe a better question is: How much are some willing to sacrifice so that the Al Gore’s of this world can save face?


How many false crises will we endure before those on the Left learn to stop and analyze the potential repercussions of being wrong?

libs?
lily?
HalD?
Robert?
religiouslib?
Proud liberal?

anyone out there? we need some lib to spout some nonsense in here! or it may get boring! haha

tibby
writes, "I started to write to say why you were wrong about the Christian tie-in to the global warming crowd but then decided you are not worth my time. Keep showing your ignorance, many of us find it amusing.

Tibby"

Glad I could amuse. Heaven knows, you all are a source of laughter for me often enough. Glad to return the favor.

CW
writes, "How many false crises will we endure before those on the Left learn to stop and analyze the potential repercussions of being wrong?"

imho, until the second coming. Atheists can substitute never. There has been the man with the sandwich sign around his neck saying, the end is near, since time began and will probably continue until time ends, or never depending on your religious preference.

Sowell, Culture and Immigration Expert
Sat out on the sideliens of the most catastrophic cultural upheavel in the history of the world: The US government overthrow of the American people by LEGAL immigration.

I have lost all respect for Dr. Sowell.

oops
"...sidelines....upheaval..."

CKHustler
You forgot to mention Anthony Thomas. I swear he has an alarm for Dr. Sowell's columns so he can waste no time in rebuttal.

Goal: To Control Your Thermostat
"Cause for skepticism
I'm curious as to why the global warming lobby also invariably opposes carbon free energy sources like hydroelectric dams and nuclear power. Of course no energy source is ecologically perfect but the aforementioned mechanisms are "carbon neutral" and not science fiction either. If global warming is the most serious environmental concern, then why would anyone advocate removal of carbon free energy plants before carbon emitting sources? This serious inconsistency makes me highly suspicious of the global warming movement."

As well it should, Maximilian. This ultimately is not actually about "climate change" or carbon dioxide, but about giving the federal government & ultimately the UN micromanagement control over our energy use, as well as the right to confiscate $$$ based on it.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd say this was planned back in the Carter Administration, when Jimmy pulled the plug on American nukes.

BTW, for every kilowatt-hour actually made available to the end-user, ethanol actually produces much more carbon dioxide, considering transportation and manufacturing. Yet the green-commies are talking it up, not down. Funny they don't object to the profits of Archer Daniels Midland or the skyrocketing price of food, either. Their indignation, as usual, is oddly & narrowly selective.

What If:
everyone started burning wood in fireplaces and woodstoves instead of using oil? Do the Global Warming worriers think that such actions would slow GW and reduce air pollution or the opposite?

Let's hear it from the Al Gores!

Hey, Algore!!!
Are you paying attention?

We need all the CO2 we can get!

We need a new government program to give everybody SUVs.

Better yet, we need you to shut up and go back to growing tobacco.

Dark Matter
Forget the spelling.
Was that supposed to make sense or was it just an "infinite number of monkeys" exercise?

Reading Thomas Sowell is like
eating creme brule.Rich and creamy delivery, topped off with brilliant crystals of wisdom the mind can crunch on and savor. He says more in one paragraph than some writers say in a 500 page tome. It's hard to pick a favorite out of this column, but this one caught my eye: "A whole cottage industry and sprung up among people who get grants, government agencies who get appropriations, politicians who get publicity and the perpetually indignant who get something new to be indignant about. It gives teachers something to talk about in school instead of teaching."
Priceless. I can't wait to see how the liberal butchers out there hack this column to pieces without providing one morsel of insight let alone a coherent rebuttal. Thomas Sowell casts pearls and so often gets a measly pork-chop in return. Yeah, I really like Thomas Sowell.

Michigan Salt Shortage...

The idiot Democrats in the Detroit area are so into Global Warming....

They forgot to buy road salt!!!

Detroit has a shortage of road salt... Because the Global Warming idiots didn't order enough. They thought it would be "Too Warm" to snow!

Now the price of salt is going through the roof!

Stupid is, as stupid does :)

Don't Tread
Thanks for the insight.

Excellent article as usual Dr. Sowell
I'm astounded that the usual gaggle of "useful Idiots" haven't been in here to call your mother names yet.

I always wondered what TH would be like 'Sans Trolls'.
It's pretty nice.

Now watch hal or wobbie show up to screw it up.

Glenn Beck plans to cover this conference like "The second coming" (beck's words, not mine) I'm really looking at some good info coming from it which will be useful for slapping trolls.


The Sheeple Will Forget
In less than 5 years, the Global Warming hoax will be over. But the press will not hold Al Gore & friends accountable for their fanatical distortions. Instead, the NYT crowd will give them a free pass, pretend like it was all "blown out of proportion" and urge us to move on. Soon the sheeple will forget and thus be ready to be duped by the next false doctrine invented by the loonies on the left. A free and biased press is so wonderful, n'est pas?

Cold shoulder
Give a cold shoulder to the global-warming shysters -- this is one of the coldest winters in 50 years, temperatures are below average this past year, and the ice levels are back to normal. Dump this AGW hoax into the deep freeze and let a future Al Gore thaw it out again in about 30 years for the gullible libtards.

Free Ramos and Compean
If evolution were true, liberals would be extinct

Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton

"State of Fear" by Michael Crichton explains why the myth of global warming continues unabated.

http://www.michaelcrichton.com/books.html

Just more climate change denial nonsense
Mr. Sowell claims that "those hyping a global warming 'crisis".... mobilize like-minded people from a variety of occupations, call them all 'scientists' and then claim that 'al'" the experts agree on a global warming crisis."

That's a very interesting assertion---made more interesting by the fact that Sowell fails to provide any instances of such action. But I can provide an excellent recent example where something very much like that happened on his own side of what he and his cohorts so desperately insist is still a "debate:"

In December, Marc Morano, an aide to Sen. James Inhofe, released a list of "over 400 prominent scientists" who supposedly "disputed man-made global warming claims in 2007." To see just how misleading that claim was, see the report linked below. The subtitle provides the gist: "List of 'Scientists' Includes Economists, Amateurs, TV Weathermen and Industry Hacks."

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/inho fe-global-warming-deniers-47011101


Thomas Sowell scores again!
I have always been curious as to why evolution isn't taught in a Philosophy or Religion class. Faith based "science" never includes facts, like "where the first bit of energy" came from. GW is nothing more than "Faith based "science" perpetrated by someone from my state (TN) where we knew better than to vote for him. People who try to make reality conform to their minds (liberals) are pre-programmed to follow Elmer Gantry types such as Al Gore. When a theory is not supported by facts and provable, it is a matter of Faith and should not be considered science. How could man evolve into something that will destroy the very bedrock of evolution? I place my faith in something higher than "faith based science".

Check out Crichton's Speech:

An excerpt:


Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.

There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.

Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday---these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don't want to talk anybody out of them, as I don't want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don't want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can't talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith.

And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren't necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It's about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.

Am I exaggerating to make a point? I am afraid not

Excerpt from: http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speech-environmentalismasel igion.html

I have the utmost respect for Dr. Sowell

but he's wrong about "... almost become something of a joke..."

Global warming has been not "almost," but absolutely a real joke for a long time...


No doubt, Dr. Sowell was just being nice.



Thanks newparty
I am glad I am not the only one to see it that way. The meaning of life. We all search for it. Environmentalism is the answer for many. I feel compelled to point out to christians that God is a jealous God.

I love Crichton's books. There are many I have yet to read. Got about 5 done so far. Too many authors, too many good books.

Sgt Relic
Actually, those photos of melting icebergs and disappearing tundra are really photos that were faked in a studio on a backlot in Culver City. It's the same backlot that was used for the phony moon-landing pictures and the phoney JFK assassination.

Thanks Dr. Sowell!
These hucksters would have bee working for Barnum in another time.

My sister is spending her first winter in the northeast since she was 12.

I would strongly advise that no one approach her and mention "global warming".

I'm the good sister. She WILL feed you to a polar bear.

Where is Algore.....
when you really need him? :-)

5 star article Dr. Sowell.

Where is Algore.....
when you really need him? :-)

5 star article Dr. Sowell.

Woops....
There's an echo in here.... must be all of the snow. :-)

Retired Geek - Evolution v. GW
“I have always been curious as to why evolution isn't taught in a Philosophy or Religion class.”

Evolution *is* science. Over the years, it has become the bedrock of biology. You can study biology without evolution like you can study auto mechanics without gears.

“Faith based "science" never includes facts, like "where the first bit of energy" came from.”

Evolution never tried to explain that. All it can do is explain how flora and fauna of today came from the flora and fauna of yesteryear. How the whole thing started is beyond its scope, and always has been.

“GW is nothing more than "Faith based "science" perpetrated by someone from my state (TN) where we knew better than to vote for him.”

Actually, global warming *is* science and it *is* factual. When your buddy Al claims that there is “no dissent”, he is essentially correct. The earth *is* getting warmer.

What is open to debate is how much, how serious, the role of human activity, and what we do about it. That is the point where you separate the Scientists from the Federal Grantmeisters and Econazi Scaremongers.

Scientists are still investigating “how much” and “how serious”. Unfortunately they’re forced to rely on inaccurate measurements, a zillion variables, and computer models that accurately predict yesterday's weather (after some tweaking).

E.g., remember that NASA fiasco where they discovered their temperature data was being skewed by being situated next to black asphalt *hot* parking lots?

Scientists are still debating the portion caused by human activity, variations in the Sun, long-term weather patterns, etc. It’s been discovered that the polar icecaps on Mars are shrinking. Maybe the Mars Rover puts out greenhouse gasses? Ah, it must be Bush’s fault!

But it’s Grantmeisters and Econazis who are trying to get the government to outlaw 21st century technology in favor of 17th century tree-hugging.

That's where the problem lies.

We must warm the Earth.
Even if they understand the problem, liberals will always come to the wrong conclusion.

The earth may be warming or may be cooling. Certainty is only in the fact that the temperature is changing.

Even if it warms by as much as ten degrees C, life on earth will be better than if it cools by half that much. Life for all will change but image dealing with a couple of thousand feet of ice over NYC.

Liberals think globally and act loco-ly.

These are the same type of "experts"
that give us evolution theory, the homosexual gene theory, predictions of monster hurricanes after Katrina, and global cooling in the 70's. They make many claims but all have one thing in common - They are always wrong!

Counterpoints
Dark Matter: Dr. Sowell has written on illegal immigration; see his articles, "Bordering on Fraud," parts 1,2,3, in May 2006.

John in Oregon: The definition of climate scientist has been stretched beyond credulity by the Red Greens, e.g., Al Gore. See Chris Horner's book, "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming and Environmentalism."

See the web sites of the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI, with whom Chris Horner is associated), Heartland Institute, International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project (ICECAP), Junk Science (mentioned above, follow the link Andrews provided, and enter some evidence to claim your prize), Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP, Dr. Fred Singer, president), Science and Public Policy Institute (SPPI), etc.

I'm looking forward to reading Dr. Singer's revised book as well.

Did you see the letter by 100 scientists to the U.N. Secretary General? Try here:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/reprint/open_letter_to_un .html

For the Foundation (1 Cor. 3:11) of the Founders ><>

CT - these are the same type of "experts
that give us 6000 year-old-earths, super powers in the sky, homosexual theory that constitutes being inhabited by the devil, virgin births, people coming back to life after being dead for days, winged messengers, and life in the sky if you behave yourself.

From the liberal headquarters
really know there's no such thing as global change...we have actually set up a conspiracy terrify children (cons fall into that group) so that we can get rich and rule the world with our evil genius. Then we're going to put a big giant head on top of the Empire state building
and transmit rays of evil to every corner of the universe. You have already been programmed by a secret chemical that we have put into your drinking water, that will tranquilize you and make you believe you have nothing to be concerned about. Your President has been drinking this water for quite some time; you can see that he has been delusional for eight years now.

Do not hide; you cannot get away from us. We will rule the world!!!!

Beware.



Conspiracies
"You have already been programmed by a secret chemical that we have put into your drinking water,"

Ah, lucky for me I only drink beer!

Touj, you live in Oregon!
Rationing by liberal politicians is real.

In the NW, a proposed interstate bridge to relieve heavy traffic is in the works, but already--due to carbon-emissions--the new bridge will be restricted to a certain number of trips per day.

This same government threatened to let violent criminals out of prison if a bill to raise taxes was not passed: they felt we needed to understand the gravity of the situation.

In brief, there is a liberal plot to take tax money for public works, then use threats against the citizenry to take away the very infrastructure it paid for.


Glowbull warming !
" Hi Folks." I sure wish there was global warming and not glowbull warming. I woke up this morning looked at my calander, March 1 tommorow.
I walked outside started up my truck to warm it up and proceded to scrape the ice off the windows
in," FLORIDA!"
I went to work, opened up the HAZMAT locker and took out two aerosol cans. Holding one in each hand I ran around outside spraying them up in the air hoping to open up a hole in the Ozone. It did not work either and I'm still freezing in Florida.

Semperfi/par
Here's what you do.

1. Open up a Taco Bell.

2. Create a Refried bean all-you-can-eat bar.

3. Invite Rosie O'Donnell to sup there.

In a few hours, the flatulence will open up not only your sinuses but a hole in the ozone the size of Michael Mooreon!

BTW all, swing by my blog for a read on a TRUE Conservative hero. (Click on my name.)

Lysenkoism lives
It is pretty clear that most of the global-warming crowd are Marxists and/or Leninists in their hearts and/or minds, as if they had either. There is a parallel between Al Gore, the panic-mongering press, and one Trofim Lysenko, (1902-1974), who with his crazy mish-mash of Lamarckianism, Darwinism and Marxism became Stalin's favorite scientist -- to the detriment and demise of many legitimate scientists; most notably, Nikolai Vavilov (1887-1943). Like Al Gore, Lysenko was a creation of the Big Red propaganda machine, which in the days following the Russian Civil War was desperate to prove that Marxism was scientific and universal. Lysenko was only officially denounced, by Andrej Sakharov, some 40 years later, after the damage had been done.

Let us hope that the upcoming conference of real scientists will be the thin edge of the wedge that will bring American Lysenkoism down. (Maybe it would help if these legit scientists took a page from the hip-hop world and called themselves SWA, Scientists Without Agendas). It's just a thought.

Unca Alby
"Ah, lucky for me I only drink beer!"

ou only think you're drinking beer.

aDNA
Actually, I don't live in Oregon, I live in Washington. I live near a huge bridge, just recently constructed, that carries hundreds of cars each day.

Oscar
"It is pretty clear that most of the global-warming crowd are Marxists and/or Leninists"

I think you're drinking too much water. Lay off the marathons for a while.

In general
Posters here are absolutely right; this year's snowstorms are absolute proof that global climate change is only an unsubstantiated myth originted by the NY Times. In fact, Their secret printing presses are operated by a group of gnomes and hunchbacks who work out of a castle atop a densely forested mountain in Northern California, surrounded by baying wolves and fog.

I'm telling you all this so you know what you are in for under liberal marxist commie domination -

Don't say you weren't warned by someone who should know.

You're sooo right!
Sowell's right! And I think that people that believe the earth is round and that it revolves around the sun should be burned at the stake.

Stenka - -
"I think that people [...] should be burned at the stake."

No good. Produces too much carbon in the smoke.

Actually, Stenka & Unca Alby
We conspiratorially minded, insurrectionist liberals believe that stake-burnings are just so yesterday, and, the last thing we want to do is imitate 16th century religious conservatives. We're way too trendy for that.

We have a plan to put deviant thinkers in closed rooms with a 24-hour loops of Pat Robertson tapes.

John McCain, who everybody knows is one of our secret agents, will supervise.







Touj
So, you live in Washington? How devestated you must be that our ultra-right-wing legislature shot down SB6900. You must feel horrible.

Condolences!

touj.
"we have actually set up a conspiracy terrify children (cons fall into that group) so that we can get rich and rule the world with our evil genius."

I'm glad you finally admitted it.

Stick to areas of expertise
There are subject matters about which Thomas excels in writing. Global warming in not among them.

The tired argument that CO2 follows temperature change has been so thoroughly addressed, Sowell should be embarrassed for even mentioning it. The fact that he does further illustrates his ignorance on the subject.

I do find it ironic that his primary complaint of those backing anthropogenic global warming is that, "Those who bother to check the facts often find that not all those who are called scientists are really scientists and not all of those who are scientists are specialists in climate," when this charge is easily levied at the speakers of the exact "conference" he is so heavily promoting. Few of the 98 speakers have ever published in a peer-review scientific journal, fewer still on subject matters related to climate change.

Touj. writes:
"CT - these are the same type of "experts
that give us 6000 year-old-earths, super powers in the sky, homosexual theory that constitutes being inhabited by the devil, virgin births, people coming back to life after being dead for days, winged messengers, and life in the sky if you behave yourself."

Yes Touj., but your belief system has been proven wrong many times over. Now it's your turn to prove my beliefs wrong. By the way, simply declaring them to be wrong doesn't count. That pretty much takes out your rebuttal.

It's Attitude
We have come to the point where the fear mongering has taken control. We hear that we are destroying the world and believe it. Back in the 1970's when the idea of global cooling was introduced people let it slide as they should. Now it has come down to what to fear and who to blame.

Carbon Offsets.......
Anybody have some extra carbon offsets I can buy? It has been colder than normal this winter and we've kept the house at 72° and I KNOW I'm using waaaay more than my share of fossil fuel and I have to be contributing to even more global warming.

And speaking of - thank goodness FOR global warming!! I can't imagine what my utility bills would have been had the planet not been 1.3 degrees warmer than 30 years ago!

Abominable Snowman + Bigfoot
Abominable Snowman: Yo! Bigfoot waaaazzup! you hairy bastid.

Bigfoot: I say old chap, what's with the urban cordials, you drinking malt liquor again wot.

Abominable Snowman: OOOOOOOH! urban, malt liquor, what you talking bout willis? Anyway, are you going to this conference in New York?

Bigfoot: Yes you wanker. To begin with, other than the fact that I have to keep my sightings under two a decade, so I can sell more merchandising. I have a problem with Al freakin Gore he makes a movie about Global Warming and we're not in it. Nobuddy ask us about temperatures and we've been here the longest.
You been scouring the arctic for freakin centuries, I on the other hand 'ave been terrorizing Scotland for some time now, you would think somebuddy, anybuddy would ask. "Hey Abominable does it seem warmer to you or Sir Bigfoot what are your thoughts on climate change
and carbon offsets?" at which point I would say, come to think of it, it's a pile of shiite.

Abominable Snowman: Hey BF! Didn't you see in the movie they filmed chunks of ice falling into the water-that's supposed to happen you ninnies.

Bigfoot: Yaar! they gave that huge homo sapien an academy award for it, by the way old boy, 'ave you seen Al Gore lately? he's massive, wot. There's ya carbon offset right there, he passes gas we're talkng hindenburg revisited.

Abominable Snowman: Hey BF! have good trip and say hi to Mrs Nessy for me.

It's really cold in PA
http://www.environmentflorida.org/news-releases/global-warm ing/global-warming-campaign-news/new-report-temperatures-in -cities-across-florida-on-the-rise

So THERE global warming people! In your face! One cold day in winter and your definition of average becomes Bushed?

You TH deniers are incredible. Ignore science and the scientists. Mention one "scientist" who denies GW (and there really are one or two), find one scientists who agrees with GW who is not peer-reviewed, and point to some cold days in the Winter.

With that kind of logic it is easy to see how GWB was elected... twice. No use discussing the globe (FL will be just fine for you, even though IT TOO HAS EXPERIENCED WARMING), averages, trends, records, science...

Besides hating everything Lib'rul, what do you guys believe in? Does science find its way into your reals, or are you still stuck on some Intelligent Design crap?

Anyone live in the North East?
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/remediation_hudson_pdf/hvcc1000c pw.pdf

I'm sorry guys. It would be unfair of me to debate you because I have friends and relatives who are scientists working either directly or indirectly with the environment. It is too easy to debunk someone like Sowell and TH loonies on this matter.

I really hope there is something missing in the clear majority of reports regarding GW, because otherwise we are screwed since Bush and his ilk dont want to listen to them darn facts (with their Lib'rul bias).

inthemajority
Gee, I can't speak for anyone else "I am honored to be in your presense". The very fact that you have friends and relatives that are working directly or indirectly "with the environment" is almost breathtaking. Maybe you could ask them to let it rain here, we are in a drought. You seem to be able to "define things into existence" by making "reality conform to your mind" most of us conservatives do not have this gift. Here is a definition that I cannot take credit for.

Arrogance = an obnoxious display of real or imagined superiority.

Thanks for sparing the debunking and especially for sparing our feelings with your obvious superiority garnered from friends and relatives.

inthemajority
I, sir, would welcome an online debate with you.

Please present your facts.

Please show us how, exactly, the last ice age ended? And the one before that, and the one before that, etc. for at least the last dozen or so.

Then, please explain where all the Carbon Dioxide went from man's burning of fossil fuels in the past two centuries. Please account for wood, coal, oil, and gas burned.


CT said,
"Yes Touj., but your belief system has been proven wrong many times over."

Then, you said:

"By the way, simply declaring them to be wrong doesn't count. That pretty much takes out your rebuttal."

Congratulations, CT. You have just written the post that disappeared up it's own ---.


Inthe majority and retired geek
Inthe, I see that Geek thinks people who are natural or global scientists can actually make the weather in any part of the world, which also seems to be what his conservative geek friends believe as well.

Why are we not surprised that they are totally unaware of the work of 99 percent of the world's most prestigious and admired scientists?

They're still waiting for them to push a lever and make it rain.

Global Warming
Mr. Sowell continues to be an Island of Sanity in an increasingly knee-jerk world. Please stay healthy as we need voices of reason when surrounded by so much panic.

Randy

energyguy
When you tell me exactly how gravity works. No really, tell me how. We all know it works (unless you still subscribe to the Hand of God Moves Us theory), we all know it exists, we all know it works predictable, and yet we do not have a grip on how it works.

Why would I have to explain something to you you would not understand anyway? Even if you did, what does that have to do with all of the science that shows -- without a doubt -- that the Earth is warming? How does that relate to the fact that -- without a doubt -- man can later his environment on a global scale?

Con logic: Just give us 6 more months, and the war will be won. OK, now give us 6 more months, and we will be presented with flowers. Dang, now give us 6 more months and we will be greeted as liberators. D'oh! Alright, one more time, 6 more months and this terrible tragedy that has gotten worse every month since inception will begin to turn around.
... a few years later ...
Alright, another mulligan. Give us more troops in this little protected area, and we promise that eventually (unspecified time) there will be some aspect of "winning". -- Whoo hooo! This year was the worst ever, BUT there was a slight decrease in US deaths these past few months. We win! We win! Those who thought things would not go so well hate America! Commies!

Global Warming Deniers -- biggest hoaxsters ever! How do you believe the war propaganda crap handed to you without questions, and yet you mock real science. I bet you think the world is 6,000 years old, eh? I bet you know nothing of Darwin. I bet you think the Clear Skies Initiative was good for the environment.

touj
I thought that someone who works "with the environment" or in conjunction with or alongside the environment surely must have special powers. Don't you guys make things happen by hoping it to be so? "Faith Based Science" believes that man who has evolved to the highest level has suddenly turned on the environment and is destroying all that has evolved? Climate change is a different issue than "Mankind is causing" the change". Perhaps your "buddy" inthemajority can explain the finer points to you. Environmental religion attracts people like you who thinks that mankind, especially Americans, are the root cause of all that is bad. Your "Faith" in Al Gore is commendable but "science based faith" is nonsense. Teach GW caused by man in a Philosophy class where it belongs.

Liberals, get out your evidence
and go claim the reward at http://www.junkscience.com. The point is that you can no more prove global warming scientifically than you can prove that God does not exist. You can point all day at poorly-credentialed deniers of global warming, but you refuse to weed out your own crapola scientists. Every comment I have read here sounds like what I used to tell my kids; "every time you point a finger at someone, three of them point back at you".

The whole global warming debate has NOT been finished; there are a number of scientists who participated in the IPCC study who refused to sign it. These are NOT junk scientists, and most of them have good arguments.

Again, I look forward to reading in the MSM about how you smart GW "scientists" won the junkscience award for your proof of global warming.

Climate Change
I keep my guns well oiled so whatever happens I'll be ready! Especially when the zombies ramble up to my porch asking if I have carbon credits for my oil furnace!

Logical conclusion ?
The obvious answer to global warming begins with Democrats fighting to remove tax exemptions for children. This is happening in Australia today, yet the champions of egalitarianism, Senator Clinton or Senator Obama leave this out of their list of important solutions to our problems.
If an abundance of people is causing discomfort or worse shouldn't the champions of the common man fight to use the government to save us? Too many people = too much carbon dioxide. Liberals get some chudspa and talk about your real agenda here! I like the idea of wide open spaces. People who live there tend to vote Republican.

Corporate Wizard convention
What a great idea. Get all the so called Scientists(Most of them have no credentials) who are payed by corporations to downplay global warming, get them into a room where we can debunk all their lies on national TV. I can't wait.

TheHistorian
It would be better to have scientists handle the science, not lawyers paid by oil and tobacco like Milloy. It is amazing that every science-disabled Con thinks junkscience has any relationship to science.

If you were to put all of the scientists who have enough knowledge in GW in an auditorium, and ask the deniers to huddle together to get their stories straight, you would see a few lonely ExxonMobil shills looking pretty scared.

As Hondo suggests, lets get this Neo-Con politically-driven debate over with so real scientists can continue with their work. It is too bad that some Americans fall for this, and real scientists feel obligated to take time from their schedules to debate fairy-tales. Stephen J Gould despised debating fairy tales regarding evolution because he had better things to do, and yet did not want America to be so dumb as to believe in ID.

What's next? It really rained for 40 days/nights and water really did cover all mountains? The earth is only 6,000 years old? God told Bush to invade Iraq? How does a Con keep science and fable separate, or are they content with simplified wrong answers from Milloy? How does gravity still work for you guys, because nobody knows how it works so it must be junk science, eh?

Your right In the majority
Don't be surpised if most of these "scientist" who attend this conference are in fact:

ECONOMISTS

"Scientists" vs. "Scientists"
It seems to me that both sides are accusing the other side of "not having enough 'real' scientists".

That doesn't seem like much in support of a position, if you asked me. Pots calling kettles black and all.

So let me posit the following questions, since you folks all seem so smart on the subject:

1. How much is the temperature going to rise and in how log?

2. What real effects do you expect that to be on the world?

3. What do you expect us to do about it?

That is, of course, the real bottom line.

inthemajority
wrote, "When you tell me exactly how gravity works. No really, tell me how. We all know it works (unless you still subscribe to the Hand of God Moves Us theory), we all know it exists, we all know it works predictable, and yet we do not have a grip on how it works."

A classic duck and dodge from a stupid liberal. Gravity affects the topic, GW, exactly how? I do not have enough time nor space to explain gravity to you. Perhaps if you had paid attention in school....

"Why would I have to explain something to you you would not understand anyway? Even if you did, what does that have to do with all of the science that shows -- without a doubt -- that the Earth is warming? How does that relate to the fact that -- without a doubt -- man can later his environment on a global scale?"

You assume much, as to my level of understanding. And you assume wrongly. My question to you was, and is, where did all the Carbon Dioxide go?

As to man altering (sir, I assume you made a typo there, but hey, it can happen) his environment on a global scale, where is your proof? Is there evidence, and if so, bring it forth.

(more)

inthemajority
"Con logic:" etc.

By the reasoning (??) of that completely off-topic response, Libs would have had us give up in World War I, again in World War II, because each took far longer than six months. We can all thank God that lib-tards such as "inthemajority" were not around to complain then. Perhaps ITM (I'm a lazy typist, so will abbreviate) believes that no cause is just, no cause is worthy of a battle, no cause is worthy of being in it to win it. Churchill would growl at you, and utterly despise you and your ilk. (I assume ITM recognizes the name Churchill?)

"Global Warming Deniers -- biggest hoaxsters ever!" etc.

'GW denier,' you label me. False assumption on your part. A rational consequentialist is a far better tag. One who studies the data and evidence, gives it due weight for validity, bias and objectivity, then rationally considers the results and implications in the largest context.

Again, I point out to readers that ITM resorts to name-calling, the typical response of libs who have no facts at their disposal.

Darwin was a misguided and sadly mistaken man who wrote a little book that has been proven wrong many times. If he were correct, why would there be any debate about survival of the fittest?

The very presence of liberals on the earth refutes that argument!

I was hoping for a rational debate, but must wait for a worthy opponent. Any takers?

energyguy
energyguy writes: Sunday, March, 02, 2008 4:04 PM
"Darwin was a misguided and sadly mistaken man who wrote a little book that has been proven wrong many times. If he were correct, why would there be any debate about survival of the fittest? "

Up until the above paragraph you sounded like you knew something and could have a conversation in science. The best scientists today (by any standard but anything appointed by GWB) place Darwin at or above Einstein on influence in the scientific community.

Sorry, you gave yourself away. Darwin has been proven correct more than almost every scientist known. But you did sound like you had a thesaurus handy.

Define the cause
Ok, a challenge for the skeptics out there. Even the professional skeptics do not deny the planet is warming these days (The days of denying warming altogether have gone by the boards). So, we have a planet-wide warming trend happening concurrently with the ongoing and increasing release of billions of tons of carbon dioxide into an incredibly thin atmosphere, but, as you say, that can't possibly be the cause. So, here's your challenge.

If the cause isn't anthropogenic release of greenhouse gases, what is it?

It's not solar cycles or galactic cosmic rays or tectonic plate shifts or volcanic activity or orbital obliquities or planetary axis tilt changes or changes in ocean currents or "unstoppable warming every 1500 years" (We're about 800 years off schedule for that.), so what is it? Since it's influencing the entire planet, a natural source should be pretty evident, so, let's have it.

MichaelF -- Challenge?
"If the cause isn't anthropogenic release of greenhouse gases, what is it?"

What caused all the other occasions of global cooling and global warming, long before there was anybody around to pollute the planet with their Hummers?

What's causing the ice caps on Mars to shrink?

Or are you claiming that this is the first time in the history of the planet that things started getting warmer? And that human activity is so perverse and powerful, that even Mars is affected?

And I will redirect you back to my own question: what do you expect us to do about it?

"Scientists" vs. "Scientists" again
Another thing I should like to ask the AGW people.

Why is it supposed to be a "bad thing" that one set of people receive funding from Oil Companies, but a "good thing" that a different set of people receive funding from the Government?

Do you suppose for one instant that the Government is ideology-neutral? That they're only interested in "What's Best for Everybody"? That they're somehow "above" mere political games and power jockeying?

Surely you don't imagine they give equal resources to all sides of any given question?

I certainly hope not, because such naive beliefs would certainly put a small dent in your credibility. Like a Mack Truck puts a small dent in a Scwhinn Bicycle.

Uncle Alby
"What's causing the ice caps on Mars to shrink?"

Dust storms.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v446/n7136/abs/nature0 5718.html
http://www-mgcm.arc.nasa.gov/mgcm/HTML/FAQS/dust.html

"Or are you claiming that this is the first time in the history of the planet that things started getting warmer?"

Hardly. We know why the Earth has heated and cooled in the past, and those changes can be attributed to the natural influences I mentioned. However, that's what makes the current situation unique. Those natural influences don't fit the current warming trend. So, if the same natural mechanisms that caused past climate change cannot be blamed for the current one, what is causing the current one? What, if anything, to do about it depends on the answer to that question. Do you have one?

Global Warming/Global Climate Change
is merely an offshoot of the religion of evolution. It has just as much scientific evidence to support it, i.e. none.

Fiddler1 - amen
All "Faith Based Science" is nothing more than earth worship which has been around for a long time. Rather than worship the creator they worship the creation. A great deal of "faith" in there suppositions and theories brings much passion. Ice ages were followed by GW and GW was followed by Ice ages - and the beat goes on. Their "devil" has become man and specifically Americans. Al Gore is their evangelist and Ted "Quixote" Kennedy attacks windmills.

No sweat - we have 2 billion years
Fear-based GW hysteria is actually about economics. Make money on ignorance-based fear.
Everybody is supposed to pay up so the "right people" will assure us everything is OK.
Unfortunately for the GWers, I am old enough to remember practicing hiding under our desks at school to minimize the dangers of the nuclear holocaust "they" tried to scare the crap out of the hoi polloi with back in the 50s. The scam was called MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction).
It was only later that a few of us grew up enough to realize that the a**holes in power had to live on this planet too, and that, as a consequence, they weren't about to eliminate their own habitat. The scam was good for billions of tax dollars, though, not to mention all the money spent on private fallout shelters.
If there is GW, maybe it will help decrease the surplus population, hopefully starting with liberals. GW doesn't scare me.
What really scares me to death is the fact our sun is scheduled to supernova out in two billion years, at which time the Earth will become a cinder. That means that the dipsticks who live on this planet only have two billion years to learn how to get along with each other and travel to, and live on, some other planet — either that, or build an artificial planet of their own.
What with all the wars and starving children and stuff, I don't think two billion years is going to be long enough. Now THAT'S really scary!
Maybe I should talk to Algore so he could help me figure out how to make some money out of that frightening situation . . .

ITM
That was a marvelous response. Are you related to Darwin? Struck a nerve?

Where did all the carbon dioxide go? Please focus on the question, and present your factual arguments. No hot air, no off-topic blasts at President Bush, just the facts. Please.

Then, please explain why there were no intense and destructive hurricanes in the Atlantic basin during summers of 2007 and 2006. GW was to cause several massive category 5 hurricanes. We know this is true because hundreds of serious scientists (a Majority!!!) agreed, thus creating a consensus.

After that, please explain why the Antarctic ice cap is growing...and the Pacific Ocean is cooling...all while the Consensus yammers on about Global Warming.

MichaelF -- Question Remains Unanswered
- - - WHAT - - -

Are we supposed to do about it?

quoth MichaelF:
"So, if the same natural mechanisms that caused past climate change cannot be blamed for the current one, what is causing the current one? What, if anything, to do about it depends on the answer to that question. Do you have one?"


I'm not going to let you "cop out" by answering the question with another question.

What do YOU think we're supposed to do about it?

You either HAVE an answer, or you DON'T. Because if you DON'T have an answer, then the answer is, WE DO NOTHING.

Uncle Alby
Before you can viably discuss potential solutions, you have to acknowledge that there is a problem.

But, to placate...

As for MY opinion on solutions, the end result MUST be a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. How we reach that end and the level of government involvement needed is up to us as members of private enterprise. America has more ingenuity than any country on the planet. If we make it a goal, we can lead the world, creating whole new industries in the process. What many business fail to realize is that efficiency improvements that result in reduced GHG emissions are generally accompanied by cost savings as well.

Necessity being the mother of invention didn't become a cliche by chance.

However, one way to guarantee we won't achieve the goal and lead the world is to simply bury our heads in the sand and pretend there's not a problem with which to deal. It's just a question of whether or not we want to be part of the solution or an ongoing part of the problem.

Now, your turn. I reiterate. Since the natural mechanisms that drove past climate change can be deemed responsible for current warming, to what do you attribute the global rise in temperatures if not the anthropogenic release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere?

This sums it up:
“Lastly, there is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition.” - Richard Lindzen, the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at MIT.

http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597

See an Australian perspective
Australian agricultural scientist Dr Jennifer Marohasy is another of those skeptical scientists that alGore et al. say don't exist. She is attending the New York conference and is reporting on her blog http://www.jennifermarohasy.com/blog/

She reported that the President of the Czech Republic Klaus Havel talked about the “robust relationship between carbon dioxide emissions and economic growth”, and that we should not forget the lessons from the fall of Communism:

“We have to restart the discussion about the very nature of government and about the relationship between the individual and society. Now it concerns the whole of mankind, not just the citizens of one particular country. To discuss this means to look at the canonically structured theoretical discussions about socialism (or communism) and to learn the uncompromising lessons from the inevitable collapse of communism 18 years ago. It is not about climatology. It is about freedom. This should be the main message from our conference.”

Why act?
Let's just debate this issue to death while the earth dies. At least our children will inherit our money, even if they don't have a life in which to spend it.

Rob -- are you kidding?
Elect the dingdongs who support such garbage and your children won't have anything to inherit...
They're the people who want to raise your taxes and your savings.... it's all about money and/or power, that's it. They simply want CONTROL over your lives (while China, Poland, India and a goodly chunk of the so-called "Third World" merrily polute - - thus, we sacrifice our lifestyles so they can "catch-up?).
The earth will die - - - in another 3-4-5 billion years, or until some nutcase like the Iranian Hitler blow us all up.....

global warming stupidity
It gives teachers something to talk about in school instead of teaching.

This became abundantly clear last week. Schwarzenegger made an appearance at an event. While he was there, a kid fainted. When the kid was asked why he fainted; his reply was "global warming". It is highly unlikely that his teachers taught any facts about heat and heat strokes when being in a crowd or standing on hot pavement for an extended time. The only thing they knew how to "teach" is the mass hysteria of global warming.

re darwinian theories
a poster above stated Darwin has been proven over and over (with reference to evolution, survival of the fittest, etc. )

The following site holds just one of the many rebuttals.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/news.php

Can ITM come out to play? What would all those scientists that you know have to say?

If science were conducted per ITM, (e.g. closed minds talking only to each other, and with smug self-congratulatory statements) then the great advances in history would not have occurred.

(flat earth, earth at center of universe, etc and etc.)

ITM, you have the floor. Please tell us all exactly how we are stoopid because your majority of scientists agree that we are.

(for a long time, the majority agreed that what goes up, must come down. Scientific fact. Even had a consensus. Then along came a space program, launched the first satellite to leave the earth's gravity well...forever... and it aint gonna come down...)


MichaelF - in case you check archives -
"Before you can viably discuss potential solutions, you have to acknowledge that there is a problem."

Good point.

Indeed, if there is NO problem, then you don't NEED a solution.

Such as, for example, if the earth raises in temperature a few degrees and -- NOTHING BAD HAPPENS.

Am I "burying my head in the sand"? Perhaps.
Or, perhaps, you are saying "the sky is falling!"

So I guess we're back to square one.

Now, I'm not one of these Evangelical Luddites who are against Evolution and all things scientific. I just note that Evolution doesn't garner government study grants the way AGW does. I suspect that's because Evolution can not lead to increased government control the way AGW can. Therefore, I'm highly suspicious of AGW.


If there's a problem -- leave it to private industry to solve it. Governments can only make bad situations worse. Especially if in fact there is no problem.

If there's no problem, private industry will put their resources elsewhere. Governments will continue trying to put out the non-existent fire. Such is the nature of government.

Which is why I asked what you would do about it. And I see that you are perfectly willing to get the government "involved", which is a roundabout way of introducing more government regulation and control. Which is *exactly* what government, at all levels, *wants*.

Very few good things can result from going down that path.

One Question
How come global temperatures dropped between 1940 and 1970 when the rise in CO2 was great?

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