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Tuesday, January 22, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Dangerous Demagoguery
by Thomas Sowell
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Most people have too much of a sense of decency and too much common sense to have gone along with those horrors unless someone found a way to turn off their thinking and turn on their emotions.

That is how Jim Jones led hundreds of people to their deaths at Jonestown. On a much larger scale, that is how Lenin created a regime of mass murder in Russia, how Hitler did the same thing in Germany and Mao in China.

Yet we seem to be no more aware of a need to be on guard against demagoguery today, in the 21st century, than those people who looked up with open-mouthed adulation at Adolf Hitler in the 1930s and at numerous other demagogues, large and small, around the world throughout the turbulent 20th century.

Many people find it thrilling that the mantra of "change" is ringing out across the land during this election year. But let's do what the politicians hope that we will never do -- stop and think.

It is doubtful whether there is a single human being in this entire country who is 100 percent satisfied with everything that is going on. In other words, everybody is for change.

The real difference between liberals and conservatives is in which specific things they want to change, and in what way.

Milton Friedman was the leading conservative thinker of his time but he wanted to radically change the Federal Reserve, the school system, and the tax system, among other things.

Everybody is for change. They differ on the specifics. Uniting people behind the thoughtless mantra of "change" means asking for a blank check in exchange for rhetoric. That deal has been made many times in many places -- and millions of people have lived to regret it.

It is not too much to ask politicians to talk specifics, instead of trying to sweep us along, turning off our minds and turning on our emotions, with soaring rhetoric.

Optimists might even hope for some logical consistency and hard facts.

Barack Obama says that he wants to "heal America and repair the world." One wonders what he will do for an encore and whether he will rest on the seventh day.

That we have so many people who are ready to be swept along by such rhetoric is a huge danger, for it means that the fate of this great nation is at risk from any skilled demagogue who comes along.

Barack Obama says that he wants to "heal" the country while at the same time promoting the idea that all sorts of people are victims for whom he will fight.

Being divisive while proclaiming unity is something you can do only in the world of rhetoric.

Senator Obama has no monopoly on demagoguery, however. Former Senator John Edwards has been playing this game longer, even if not as effectively in the political arena.

John Edwards built his own fortune in the courtroom, depicting babies with birth defects as victims of the doctors who delivered them. The cost of such demagoguery has gone far beyond the tens of millions of dollars that Edwards pocketed for himself from gullible juries.

Such lawsuits based on junk science have driven up the cost of medical care, not only directly but even more so indirectly, by leading to an increase in Caesarean births and other costly "defensive medicine" to protect doctors rather than patients.

The world of John Edwards, like the world of Barack Obama, is a world of victims, whose savior he claims to be.

What is scary is how little interest the public and the media have in the actual track record of political saviors and the cry of generic "change."

America is not czarist Russia or Iran under the shah, so that people might think that any change was bound to be for the better. Yet even in those despotic countries the changes -- to communism and to the ayatollahs -- made them far worse.

The time is long overdue for voters to demand specifics instead of rhetoric that turns their emotions on and their minds off.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
Ron Paul Stimulus Package
Introduction

America became the greatest, most prosperous nation in human history through low taxes, constitutionally limited government, personal freedom and a belief in sound money. We need to return to these principles so our economy can thrive again. When enacted, my plan will provide both short-term stimulus and lay the groundwork for long-term prosperity.

Other candidates talk a lot about stimulus packages, but my record stands alone. I have fought for these measures for years as a member of Congress and will make them a top priority as president.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ron-paul-stimulus- package

Gee...
...it certainly looks like lilly is backpedalling from her 6:23 PM post yesterday, what with the post at 11:58 PM.

Too late, lilly.

MotelyCrue, Heartfelt thanks
from a visiting conservative.
Great points.

Bright and insightful as always
sir, always a pleasure to read your articles.

Hal Donahue
Re: Comment.
I don't remember anything mentioned in our American Constitution about 'free' citizens needing to subjugate themselves to the ever changing whims of any federal government. Remember "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"(?) I'm quite sure it does not read, "Prostration, Emulation and Community" In fact I seem to remember the whole idea of 'Independence' was to both throw off the tyranny of the over-burdensome regulation and taxation of the centralized system in England and insure the personal freedoms of each and every citizen in the new world. Ours were supposed to be a group of independent States which worked together when threatened, for the defense of all. The federal government was to have a minor role as watchdog, sea scout and gate keeper.
Socialism with it's constantly demanding, over-bearing and all inclusive government does not work well. It diminishes the human spirit and leeches the spontaneity from all human endeavor. It has a history of ruining every country in which it's tried. Sadly, we Americans seem destined to become it's latest victim. Sad for us and doubly sad for the rest of the free world which needs us to remain vital.
Hal, I fear you may be one 'Manifesto' short of a full 'Presidium.'

A sad day indeed
It is a sad day when mindless myrmidons call Dr. Sowell's mind 'wasted'. When fossils like her (I can't even say her name anymore)post and are largely ignored due to there vapid content, and continue to post,it is a sad day.

Nice work Hitchhiker.
I notice no serious response to the fact that our lib friends are so close to Marx that they can't see his reflection when they look in the mirror.


AT - 1
***Anthony said:

We have one of the largest budget deficits in our countries history"

Buzzkat said:

“This statement is blatantly false. As a percentage of GDP, the government deficit is WELL BELOW the average for the past 40 years. Anyone with a grounding in economics knows this”

The statement is not false, we have a huge budget deficit. ***

Your statement IS false (one of the largest budget deficits). Both as a percentage of GDP AND as a percentage of govt revenues, it is below the average of the past quarter century. "Huge" is a subjective term, "percentage" is a precise mathematical term. Just because you don't know basic economics does not make your statement true nor mine false. For most of the Clinton years the budget deficit was also "huge" and it went down for the last couple of years because the ECONOMY produced more revenues to the govt.



"The money in our economy and the government’s money are two separate things."

No they are not. The economy is DEFINED as G+C+B (govt + consumers + business). Economics 101, pal.

"The economy obviously still has money"

Yet a couple of sentences down you contradict yourself: "our economy isn’t doing that well right now"

"but our government is broke."

Our govt (federal) has been "broke" (there you go with the subjective terms again) since 1968 when it first started running a deficit. It has been "broke" through Dem and Rep administrations and congresses. It is boke because both political parties spend like there's no tomorrow to buy votes. Do you show the same outrage when YOUR Democrat pals hold the reins? Why do you think our government has been borrowing money from countries like China to finance our foreign policy???

I agree 100% but......
>"It is not too much to ask politicians to talk
>specifics, instead of trying to sweep us along,
>turning off our minds and turning on our
>emotions, with soaring rhetoric.

That is what politicians do. In fact some of the best soaring rhetoric is what has inspired the nation. The problem is in light of the lack of substance and policy the rhetoric is not soaring but it stinks!

Quote:
-I have a dream
-A house divided against itself cannot stand.
-Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself
-Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
-And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

When you get policy "Wonks" like Gore or Hillary speaking policy, peoples eyes glaze over. Obama involves a little MLK, by singing some of his speech with rhythmic cadence, it turns people on, but it seems fake to me, an imitation of an original.

On the GOP side we have Mitt is a Geek. I don't mean that in a bad way, but he is a geek.

Rudy Lisps.

McCain gets lost and puts foot in straight talking mouth.

Huckabee, has an ease that makes the s**t go down with a little sugar. I think his comments that homosexuals are as bad as pedophilia and bestiality is going to sink him, with the constitution needs to be changed to match the Bible.

Thompson? go back to bed my sweet prince.

JFK, Clinton and Reagan where the best speakers in modern time.

Bush, ha-ha, he is quoted about looking forward to making lots of money on the speeking circuit after 2008. Ironic, the least articulate man will get paid millions to make speeches. This must be a sign the apocalypse is upon us.

USMC lt
that one has me hanging, unless the java version in your browser is corrupted.

shoot me an email to my sddress on my blog and I'll help ya figure it out :)



USMC lt. and gang
The new chat is up and running now, you can set up an account and join the party, farmers ife is already here and we're getting lonely,

Just click the link in my blog and you can set up your username/pass on the chat page :o)


A Sad Day
I believe I narrowly missed knowing Thomas Sowell personally since many years ago we were in the same place at the same time and I am fairly certain we had friends in common. And I see this man's impressive credentials and can't help but respect him as a scholar. But I read this article several hours ago and since then have been feeling something like despair because what Sowell has said is that campaigning against an incumbent, against a sitting administration, by calling for change is "dangerous demagoguery". He is saying that the political rhetoric of an opposition campaign is dangerous. He equates Obama with Hitler, Lenin, Mao, and Jim Jones.

This is what the conservative movement has brought us to. We have seen something similar now since 2000---that to oppose Bush is to be unpatriotic and even treasonous. Sowell's take is worse. We are a two-party nation, but apparently Sowell thinks one party would be better and would have the opposition party just shut up. Sixty years ago I was living in a country ruled by a dictator who simply arrested all who dared challenge him in an election. Is that the standard Sowell wants? I am absolutely appalled by this article. Dr Sowell, just as ads for a black college fund used to state, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Lt
prolly wobbie flew off in it you know he can fly anything LOL

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
YES I am still writing Fred’s name in the box!
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!


Doc & USMC Lt.
I got in but no one is there. I was there earlier tonight, no problem. When I went back, I had to re-register, got in but no one is chatting.

Hi Lt
Must be because I also am having problems with it. 8-(

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
YES I am still writing Fred’s name in the box!
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Clueless
Anthony Thomas writes: Tuesday, January, 22, 2008 11:05 AM

"What don’t I have a clue about???"

Do three q-marks make you more puzzled? What you don't have a clue about is that the unconstitutional spending which is over 80% of the Federal budget is the problem. The war spending is a small part and is mandated by the USC. Pick up a copy at your local bookstore, or sit in on one of Williams's classes.

Amendment 22: Biggest Election Issue
The United States of America and the theory of its Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights is the problem in this and all questions of self governance. We have a dyadic organization, The Clintons, that is expert
at acting on suspect interpretations of our laws
before all the rest of us have had a chance to determine whether these actions of their's are Constitutional. We are confronted now with the most extreme and dangerous of these reinterpretations, namely, whether this Clinton Dyad will be in violation of Amendment 22 if they do indeed take control of the Executive Branch (The Presidency). The agenda the Clinton Dyad proposes is anti Constitutional because it seeks to impose ever greater centralized control over the citizens of this country. Recent disclosures of Rockefeller regarding this organization's use of secret police in the monitoring of political opponents regarding the first attempt to establish socialized medicine are most disturbing. Tonight it became self evident that Alan Colmes has no answer to this question other than supercilious analogical reasonings that do not address the obvious fact that these two professional politicians intend to rule as de facto King and Queen. To interpret what they seek to do is to be naive.

I request that Dr. Sowell lead a committee to file a complaint with the Supreme Court regarding Amendment 22. Amendment 22 is the biggest of the election issues. It is the elephant in the room no one is willing to address.

Birdman II
I say libs like wobbie, HaL the Disgruntled Ex LTC, some dead folks, and a few million south of the border folks, invaded the GOP and voted for them. It is a vast left wing conspiracy!! I am still writing in Fred's name come election day!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
YES I am still writing Fred’s name in the box!
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

wobbie the wonder wabbit wites:
Keep invading nations that are no threat to us and trying to "pacify" them?

HMMM I wonder if Kuwait felt that way. Go answer tail2long .mil addy. twit

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
YES I am still writing Fred’s name in the box!
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Change????

We already know how Hillary wants to change things. Anyone for socialized medicine? Instead of going to your doctor and getting a prescription, you can just go to the clinic and wait in line until you die. You want socialized medicine? Read about it here: http://www.rense.com/general80/freeemd.htm

Obama's idea of change is tuck tail and run. If I were going to vote for a 'blame America first' candidate and/or an isolationist candidate I would vote for Ron Paul - at least he talks Constitution (and I deisagree with everything else he says).

But the thing is this, if the Fundamental Muslims win or get the upper hand, none of this is going to matter, it it? First things first. Protect America from the external enemies else there will be no more America to protect.

Speaking of Muslims, I heard on the radio that the Muslim community worldwide is pulling for either Hillary or Obama to win it all. Can you guess why?

It seems that the Muslim community believes the Democrats in general are their greatest allies in this war on terrorism!!! Who would have thought?

The Democrats in general seek to become our lords. They know what is best for us better than we do. If you don't believe that, just ask them. They are for cramming homosexuality down our throats whether we approve of it or not. They seek to indoctrinate our children in public schools. If they really want change, end the Federal Department of Education.

The Left fears that we believers in God seek a theocracy in America. Not so. It has not been a theocracy for the last 200+ years and there is no plan to make it so in the future.

What we fear is an 'atheocracy' ala USSR, Red China, and North Korea. These are legitimate fears that have come true in other countries under socialism (or the Democrats version of progressiveness).

I can't believe that the best the GOP can offer is John, Rudy, or Mitt.

Anthony,
this is a conservative site. I'm willing to bet that you never voice the same complaints when you're browsing over at Daily Kos as they're ripping into Conservatives. Head over there if that's what you want.

Doc
JP is putting the finishing touches on a new site. He said to give him about 10-20 minutes!

Hal D
criminal terrorists?

Where did you get this one? They are terrorists PERIOD And they need to go the way of sadammed

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Hal Donahue
Ummm, these were your co-workers, yes? Therefore, you associated with them. By your post at 9:04 PM you must have gone along, otherwise their seediness would have gone unnoticed by you.

Making all of your "friends" Reagan democrats makes you sound desperate, again. I would try something different.

Now, feel free to try to have the last word. Just know there won't be anyone around to read it.

Well, Hal. Not much I can teach a
seasoned world traveler like yourself. I'm just an old Royal Navy man myself. Bombed as a kid in the war. Spent a few nights in air raid shelters. Lost family and a lot of schoolmates. Evacuated to a camp and all that sort of mundane growing up stuff. Nothing as exciting as the life you claim to have lived. So no. If you want to giggle about jolly old England I'm not your man.

No MC
All I get is a little red X after I sign on, reckon I need to add something to get into it.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
YES I am still writing in Fred's name!
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

sheepdog
"I'll agree with you but there are people in the party you support (well maybe not you) who think that once Bin Laden is captured or killed, the war on terrorism will be over and we can all go home."

Only if they are very niave and that is no one I know.

" The only way this war will end is if we diminish their will to fight which will take years. "

Listen they are only criminal terrorists nothing special. Get a grip and let's address the issue we do not need armies just a few good men

"BTW-If you don't believe that Pacifism will only encourage aggession, one need only to look at what Neveill Chamberlin did prior to World War II
A classic example of "If you give them an inch they'll take you a mile."

What are you talking about NO ONE hadvocates pacifism that is in power of any kind. Might be good if we tried a bit of it.

MotleyCrue
"..Responsibility for your actions was considered de rigueur where I grew up."

Ahh really and you still support Bush and the fundamentalist conservatives? You are guilty by association and now a proven liar.

Want to teach me about the UK??? Please say yes LOL

Hal
"Yawn really? Why? We committed TWO major sins. First, we didn't punish those who attacked us (weakness) and let our entire military force be mired in the desert by a third world nation (NOT victory).

Second, we paniced and blundered displaying dizzying incompetence


"There's an old saying'

"Pacifism will only encourage aggression"

The US has NEVER been accused of that

Hal
I'll agree with you but there are people in the party you support (well maybe not you) who think that once Bin Laden is captured or killed, the war on terrorism will be over and we can all go home. The only way this war will end is if we diminish their will to fight which will take years.
BTW-If you don't believe that Pacifism will only encourage aggession, one need only to look at what Neveill Chamberlin did prior to World War II
A classic example of "If you give them an inch they'll take you a mile."


Hal. Did I indeed?
Check my last post.

YLG
"No one spoke that way where I grew up in PR, and I was in the small country area. And what does being a Reagan democrat have to do with it? Guilt by association? The fact is, YOU associated with these lowlifes. Can't erase that. "

Well I grew up on the docks of the northeast and not the country. The folks that said that were who elected Reagan to the WH. Know what they worked hard and did the best they could. It was the morals of the day. Did I go along? Nope

Greetings, Doc.
Have you checked out Jackpines new chatroom for conservatives yet? YL and I and others have already visited. Quite good.

MotleyCrue
"...First of all, if the 11yr old had a neighbor, she'd almost certainly have parents, or at least one. So do you think they'd tell her to suck it up, or point her in the direction of an abortion clinic? "

Actually nothing hypothetical about it. A real girl and her uncle turned out to be the Father...

"And secondly. Do you really think your "settle her down by knocking her up" question would apply to someone like myself, who has an enviable vocabulary most people (you included, Hal) would need ten more years of schooling to acquire. Tsk tsk, dear lad. Think before you leap. "

You did evade that answer...

Hal. YL may be younger, but she's
certainly not stupid enough to think I'd use language like that. And BTW, I was schooled in England and wasn't brought up with your "Good Old Boy" mentality. Responsibility for your actions was considered de rigueur where I grew up. Possibly not in your case, if that kind of thinking and language is considered normal.

Hal
Not THAT much younger, and seeing as my dad is 76 today, not so sheltered.

No one spoke that way where I grew up in PR, and I was in the small country area. And what does being a Reagan democrat have to do with it? Guilt by association? The fact is, YOU associated with these lowlifes. Can't erase that.

OH O Hal
I think MC just took you "to the wall"

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

YLG
"Those people you associated with sound like the lowest of the low. And assuming MotleyCrue had the same associations make you sound desperate."

Actually no and many are still around - solid Reagan Democrats to the core. You are either much younger or VERY sheltered

mike from tucson
"What politician has the right to change this free American's life without my permission? My children's lives; and grand children's? "

You do and everyone else in the country. You are NOT an island but part of a whole.

"When politicians spout "change" they mean attenuated liberties and escalating seizure of working people's assets. "

Really? "attenuated liberties" that would be the extreme right who wants into our homes, bedrooms and bodies and yo9u helped elect them. Working peoples' assets? Come on the fundamentalist conservatives have left you with pretty much nothing...

"American election campaigns on all levels are drivel! Without substance. Our would-be masters' rhetoric resembles movie advertisement hyperbole. "New! Different! Exciting! A blockbuster!" The entire puppet show is shallow and facile and utter crappola."


You are part of it, baby

"It would be funny to be around in a few short years to see the neo-socialist elite taken to the wall, as in Cambodia, to hear their confused bleating. "But we supported your lies!" Funny, except we dumbed-down and sold out conservatives will have bloodied the wall first."

Those were communists your kin not moderates.




Oh, Hal. I thought you knew better
to pose silly hypotheticals. First of all, if the 11yr old had a neighbor, she'd almost certainly have parents, or at least one. So do you think they'd tell her to suck it up, or point her in the direction of an abortion clinic?

And secondly. Do you really think your "settle her down by knocking her up" question would apply to someone like myself, who has an enviable vocabulary most people (you included, Hal) would need ten more years of schooling to acquire. Tsk tsk, dear lad. Think before you leap.

Hal
Those people you associated with sound like the lowest of the low. And assuming MotleyCrue had the same associations make you sound desperate.

MotleyCrue
What do you say to the just turned 11 yr old who thinks she became pregnant kissing her neighbor. I get it: Suck it up?

I am sorry but I am old enough to remember the guys at work saying the wife was causing trouble and they would "settle her down" by "knocking" her up. Hmm you are old enough to know this did you forget or were you one of them?

Change?
What politician has the right to change this free American's life without my permission? My children's lives; and grand children's?
When politicians spout "change" they mean attenuated liberties and escalating seizure of working people's assets.
American election campaigns on all levels are drivel! Without substance. Our would-be masters' rhetoric resembles movie advertisement hyperbole. "New! Different! Exciting! A blockbuster!" The entire puppet show is shallow and facile and utter crappola.
It would be funny to be around in a few short years to see the neo-socialist elite taken to the wall, as in Cambodia, to hear their confused bleating. "But we supported your lies!" Funny, except we dumbed-down and sold out conservatives will have bloodied the wall first.

everyonesfacts
"...I prefer the latter, but would choose none of both. "

That is the Clinton position and FYI you cannot have aborted children. To be a child requires birth

Newt, Newt, Newt


Nos Nevets writes: Tuesday, January, 22, 2008 12:57 AM
Change & a Bridge to 21st Century
Fortunately we elected a Democrat in 1996.
It's hard to imagine what would have happened to us if Bill Clinton had not been allowed to build
=============

Even more, what would have happened to us if Newt had not been running Congress?

No one has been running it since, and look at the mess we are in.

Who is at fault
MotleyCrue writes: Tuesday, January, 22, 2008 7:07 PM
everyonesfacts.
Not much of a choice when you are a poor teenage black girl with no way out, and some kindly doctor tells you not to worry, an abortion will take care of all your problems, and it's all paid for by the government.
==========

But that's better than the alternative, an abused, maybe starving baby, and a few other people who are suffering for a few moments of stupidity a few months ago.

And why doesn't anyone mention the idiot who is really at fault? In whatever you do, it is the one who can cause the problem who is at fault, not the one who suffers because the one at fault did not care enough to do it right. No way a woman can get preg unless a man has not taken responsibility for what he is doing.

That's true in a car accident, a pregnancy, and in many other things that happen in this life.

No for one, yes for the other

I am absolutely against CHANGE, but I am absolutely in favor of IMPROVEMENT.

motley crue
just to finish here,
for the girls I knew being pregnant was one of only a host of problems.
An abortion would only get rid of one "problem"


yes millions of aborted children
and millions of children born to single mothers.

I prefer the latter, but would choose none of both.

Unfortunately, many Americans want
more than "change". They want to have at the lion's share of the incomes of others and leave the rest of us the "change".

I met a man today who is voting for "whoever the democrat candidate is" because he has accrued $80,000.00 in debt and believes that he will have "a way out" if he doesn't have to pay for health care and "think about retirement". There are many like him; ready confiscate the efforts and incomes of others to support their choices.

everyonesfacts.
Not much of a choice when you are a poor teenage black girl with no way out, and some kindly doctor tells you not to worry, an abortion will take care of all your problems, and it's all paid for by the government.

If Planned Parenthood doesn't count, as you say, and most of these unwed mothers don't consider abortion as an option, what do you think could possibly account for the millions of aborted babies since RoeVSWade was first established? If it isn't genocide in the true sense, (and you seem to be a bit pedantic on that) then it is certainly a holocaust.

And yes, I do realize that all those babies are not all of one race, but the majority of them would have been born into the American culture. But that is a moot point and not worth quibbling over.









Motley
just click the link on my blog, it will take you to the page where the chat is. The chat is java, so you may have to get the latest version of java to get it.

there are annoying google ads above and below the chat box, but that's the price of Free chat :op

Uncle Tom's Cabin
The most interesting question in America today and one which our own beloved Tom should address is this: If the Stowe classic were to made into a film today, which black American actor would have the testicularity to play the title roll? I think that Simon Legree (I keep wanting to type Snidely Whiplash) is pretty much locked up by Daniel Day-Lewis. God, I wish someone would make it.

MotleyCrue
Anne is asking that you check your e-mail!

MotleyCrue
I saw you had signed in briefly. Just go to his blog, click on the link in the first post, and sign in.

iraq, reasons
we went "into Iraq" to establish no fly zones after fighting a U.N. war to throw Iraq out of the neighbor they invaded and conquered, Kuwait. That being the case and having been the case throughout the 8 years of Clinton, we had to decide to "finish the job" or simply leave and leave Saddam in place. Those were the only two realistic choices as the supposed sanctions had pretty much collapsed under the oil for food charade. We chose correctly.

Robert
I beat you by a year. I am not at all sure how this will turn out. We could well get dumped into the second world at this rate but that is worse case i.e. 8 more years of fundamentalist conservatism


YLG. I was just over there.
Ended up on some sexy singles site. Tried again, but still couldn't make head nor tail of it. Explain how to go about it, please. Lead me to the promised land, oh sweet damsel.

sheepdog
"...So in other words we kiss there behinds say
WERE SORRY and everything will be hunky-dory."

Oh no we are not going to get off that easy dearie. We threw peace, justice and the American way out the window in a panic. We won't be fully trusted for a long time.

"I got news for you. Anyone who believes that will end up dead before there time. "

Yawn really? Why? We committed TWO major sins. First, we didn't punish those who attacked us (weakness) and let our entire military force be mired in the desert by a third world nation (NOT victory).

Second, we paniced and blundered displaying dizzying incompetence


"There's an old saying'

"Pacifism will only encourage aggression"

The US has NEVER been accused of that

lilly
Do you know who inspired Stowe to write "Uncle Tom's Cabin"? His name was Josiah Henson, a slave who escaped to what is now Ontario, and helped other slaves to escape. Harriet Beecher Stowe used his life and his writings as the inspiration fro her "Uncle Tom" character.

You do a great disservice in perpetuating a false stereotype, especially for someone who is so enlightened.

motley crue shouting at the devil
I've taken classes on genocide.

Planned Parenthood would not count as it.
Commercials?

If you are missing the point here there is a
choice. Having taught these same unwed mothers
I can say from anecdotal evidence that many
most don't even consider an abortion. And I
think that is great. Because if I have an
ideology it is my pro-life ideology

And I am against government funding for abortions.

What is systematic would be the purges and
pogroms in Russia, the Holocaust, the Armenian
genocide, Pol Pot, etc., etc. Not saying some
of these didn't use advertising, but c'mon it
wasn't like "Jews you are an impure race with no
culture." "Want to know more come by Dachau
and we'll discuss your options"

No, the 1st quote would be true.
But there were no "options" of either coming
by or not participating when forced to come by.

That's a pat answer which I hope fits both our
ideologies.

Which culture were all the babies?
Did not follow you there.
They are all one race if you consider that
biologically we are all humans, but they are
not all a historical race - Irish, etc.



Uncle Tom's Column
Uncle Tom Sowell mocks Obama, and does far worse than that when he puts Obama on the same page with Hitler, Lenin, and Jim Jones. Certainly Sowell is aware that millions of legitimate Americans are enraged with the way Bush has governed. No need to go into the list here: we all know it by heart. The other day my morning paper began an article about something that had happened in Washington with the words "Back in the distant past, when we had checks and balances in Washington...". Too much has happened that nobody ever thought could happen in America. We want our country back. This oligarchy must go. Is it "dangerous demagoguery" to say that? Funny, I thought that the direction of government was something Americans were allowed to talk about. Apparently not in the world designed by George W Bush, the Neoconservatives, and Thomas Sowell.

sheepdog: I know! You're right!

But when you feed them, they hang around.

The other night everybody kind of ignored the little twit, and eventually just went to another thread...

There were a few lengthy posts... (possibly angry and frustrated by the upper case words, but I didn't bother to read... ) and then he moved to another thread looking for someone to feed him...



Add-on
An add-on to my post above.

"Pacifism only encourages aggresion"
But then again some people never learn.

MotleyCrue, Anne, sheepdog
Y'all going over to JP's?

Anne writes
"the least bit of attention to robusto... right?

That's what I thought. :-)



And, you also know that goes pretty much for halD as well??? Yeah! :-)

LMAO I know..but these guys make it to easy ...
for you not to take pot shots at them.

Hal Donahue writes
"To some extent you are correct. We will not be restored to leadership of the free world immediately. We will have to earn that and we must makes amends of some kind."

So in other words we kiss there behinds say
WERE SORRY and everything will be hunky-dory.
I got news for you. Anyone who believes that will end up dead before there time.
There's an old saying'

"Pacifism will only encourage aggression"


Sheepdog: You DO know better than to pay

the least bit of attention to robusto... right?

That's what I thought. :-)



And, you also know that goes pretty much for halD as well??? Yeah! :-)








Robert
"The GOP would not be on the brink of complete self destruction"

You couldn't be more wrong. The Republicans in congress (Democrat lite) are the one bringing the GOP to complete self destruction. They are inside the beltway. Fortunately outside the beltway there are still a vast number of people who believe in conservative principles.

Hal
"...Next Tuesday Vote: Willard Mitt Romney for President. "

Before his positions change yet again LMAO

everyonesfacts writes:
"abortion is not genocide. genocide is : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. Calling it genocide is flat wrong. I am pro-life and it is obvious it is not genocide. If it is, which group is it. The unborn won't work since there is nothing systematic about it. Unless individual women choosing to abort is what you call systematic. Then we'd have to define systematic."
---------------------------------

Well, sir. You seem to be an authority on it, so please explain the advertising (especially in ghetto neighborhoods) by Planned Parenthood and individual abortion mills, designed to bring young unwed mothers into the clinics under the guise of counseling, funded by our tax dollars BTW. And most of those young unwed mothers are counseled into going the abortion route. If that isn't systematic, I don't know what is, but you're the expert here, so you more than likely have a pat answer which suits your ideology. We also have the problem of overseas advertising, through doctors, especially in Catholic countries where abortions are banned as unholy. America, because of paid advertisements, has become the abortion capital of the world, and it is definitely systematic.

Perhaps the millions of babies aborted each year are not necessarily of a particular race, (although blacks seem to be highly representative) but they are most definitely of one culture, and because of this America's moral standing as a cviilized country is being aborted as surely as it's future citizens.


wildwest/carlos
"...this myth and fantasy that the missus clinton lays claim to that with her election the price of gas will suddenly decline because the oil sheiks know america will be serious about energy conservation under her administration... "

Actually future expectation does affect the price of energy as does political risk. Both would exert downward pressure on oil prices.

"...and suddenly because of her and bubba the world will again respect america is an even bigger fantasy. "

To some extent you are correct. We will not be restored to leadership of the free world immediately. We will have to earn that and we must makes amends of some kind.

"If bubba was so popular why were the islamists still attacking american forces."

Because we were an effective enemy and leadership force in the ME is why.

"And if bubba was so popular why couldn't he convince arafat to come to some agreement with israel."

No excuse there.

"...Clinton was a failure both here at home and around trhe world. No wonder he has a failed legacy "

He is FAR more popular than GW or many other presidents. Failed? Hardly...

lay off of his blue suede shoes
Barack might be for a little more love around the
world but not when it comes to OBL where he has
made the most striking appeal to go after him even
if he's hiding in a country that is an ally like
Pakistan.

And for this?

People called him crazy.

What's crazy is not going after Al-Qaeda.
That part of the so-called War on Terror I support
and I supported GBII's claim that he would go after
Al-Qaeda wherever they were. NOT!

Robert
Hope you are in Euros

Was Bush a demagogue?
No,

demagogue:
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

But maybe he kept power.

If the election had been in 2/2005 John Kerry
might be President. Can't say that would have
been better. I couldn't vote for either.

Goodbye Fred... Hello, Mitt
Hello Thompson supporters! Governor Mitt Romney is Florida's natural conservative alternative.

*Governor Romney wants 100k more American troops and honor for veterans when they return home.

*Romney wants immediate personal tax cuts and fast tracked business tax incentives.

*Romney wants to protect America's borders, crackdown on employers and deport illegals.

*Romney is Pro-Life by virtue of conversion through conscience.

*Romney wants an America first approach to trade policy with Russia, China, Japan and Europe.

*Romney is right on the issues and right for America in 2008.

*Gov. Mitt Romney welcomes Thompson's conservative supporters in Florida.

Thompson and Romney share much more in common... including a sincere desire for your vote on Jan. 29. Next Tuesday Vote: Willard Mitt Romney for President.

carlos
this myth and fantasy that the missus clinton lays claim to that with her election the price of gas will suddenly decline because the oil sheiks know america will be serious about energy conservation under her administration and suddenly because of her and bubba the world will again respect america is an even bigger fantasy. If bubba was so popular why were the islamists still attacking american forces. And if bubba was so popular why couldn't he convince arafat to come to some agreement with israel.The clintons during the 90's fought in kosovo with trumped up claims made by maddy not so bright, they sent forces to haiti, but he stood by and allowed massacres to continue in africa when he could have offered aid. Clinton was a failure both here at home and around trhe world. No wonder he has a failed legacy

sheepdog
When are you planning the invasions of Darfur,
Zimbabwe, Myanmar, etc., etc. or is that a price
you are willing to unfortunately pay as I was
for Iraq's indecencies?

Carlos
"Dear Democrats...If Bin Laden bombed the first Black President, he will bomb the second, and the wife of the first as well."

Well he certainly bombed GW with impunity and the frightened "cowboy" is so scared he has done EVERYTHING Osama wanted. Geesh get real GW is even disarming the military as we speak...

I suspect he will try and bomb Hillary or Obama because THEY WILL BE COMING AFTER HIM

Change is Exciting... weee!

Hillary thinks she can cure all sadness with "Hillary-care".

Obama thinks the whole wide world will come together in one big love-in.

Dear Democrats...

Do you really think Hillary can keep you alive and immortal? Do you really think Bin Laden and friends will lay down their arms before Obamas blue suede shoes?

If Bin Laden bombed the first Black President, he will bomb the second, and the wife of the first as well.

King Liberal
We didn't go into Iraq to free "tortured" Iraqis. I don't recall that being a driving issue.

I didn't say it was the driving issue and it wasn't, but do you really believe that Saddam would have stopped torturing people if we hadn't invaded?


sheepdog
one of your points is accurate the other is not:

"You forgot d and e
d)There would still be people in Saddam's torture chambers

e) Saddam would just pay off inspectors to continue weapons program ...Food for Oil ring a bell."

D is accurate and that is a price I would
unfortunately be willing to pay to save some
blood and treasure and focus our attention at
Al-Qaeda.

E - do you still believe E? Man, did you just
wake up? Welcome back man, it's 2008 and that
stuff wasn't true.

Wait, you could still believe it.
Are you Dick Cheney because your thinking and his
have an eery resemblance?
Anyways, just how much was Hans Blix making?
Anyone else jealous of Blix tooling around Iraq
in his light blue jeep?

Everyone should go and
read Bob Novack's column for a real brain boiler. It came out last night but they never moved it to the upper screen and it has been over looked,

SheepDog-Lumber-Max-Others
I'm gone for now. Catch you here or at JP's later!

wwsword
"For Republicans the victims are white males, taxpayers, gun owners, conservative Christians, soldiers, fetuses, and so on."

Let's see:
* aborted fetuses are the victims of murder
* taxpayers are the victims of theft
* gun owners are the victims of having constitutional rights infringed
* white males and soldiers are the victims of false accusations of crimes.

Since the definition of a 'victim' is someone who has been the target of a crime, I can see how a liberal could be confused--you usually reserve 'victimhood' for someone who gets slammed by the results of their own poor choices in life.

Everyonesfacts
a) owe less to China
b) have a smaller deficit
c) have our sights set on the terrorists

You forgot d and e

d)There would still be people in Saddams torture chambers

e) Saddam would just pay off inspectors to continue weapons program ...Food for Oil ring a bell.

InsightingTruth
Congratulations on being an adult.

Sadly, what Dr. Sowell is pointing out is that far too many citizens of this great nation don't have a clue about how to be an adult, and if it involves being responsible for the consequences of their choices (aka taking responsibility for themselves), they're not interested.

Got any proposals about how to persuade these perennial children that being a real adult is more fun and interesting than being a child?

Sheepdog
When You're Hot, YOU'RE HOT!

Jackpine do not confuse Afghanistan and
Iraq.

Nice try, Neocon.

They are not the same. NATO countries backed the
Afghanistan action 100%. Iraq was a different
story. If we had listened to France on Iraq
(inspections and sanctions - it was obvious the
world was with us and against Saddam) we
would:
a) owe less to China
b) have a smaller deficit
c) have our sights set on the terrorists

You from the content of your posts are a Neocon
while I am a fiscal con - all I'm asking for is
that trillion dollars back. Just credit it to
the deficit.

Georgetwin
Can't stop laughing at your 4:23 post..That was delicious...LOL

Max Power-Lumber
I guess Mr. Theresa Heinz-Kerry would've given them a GOOD TALKING TO!

Hal Donahue
Off your meds today? SO WHAT if he did?! That's how a free market operates.

Stop by KFC and have The Hillary Clinton Special:
2 Small Breasts
2 Fat Thighs
1 Left Wing

Jackpine Savage/Georgtwin
"...if Skerry had his way we'd still be waiting for france to give us permission to invade afghanistan"

Actually no they helped us there and still are in some fashion but our military would not be mired in the desert and Osama (remember him) running free in a position to perhaps get Pakistan's nukes

Hal Donahue
PEAT MOSS! There are scores of Hollywood Liberals spouting nonsense about President Bush, America and other STUPIDITY from these Highly Paid Monkeys! DNC contributors ALL!

Georgetwin
Great idea, only who would want them?

Folks
Thompson is gone! Welllll now what? The Limbaughs strike out again. Oh, Did one of Mitt's companies buy Clear Channel?

Georgtwin
if Skerry had his way we'd still be waiting for france to give us permission to invade afghanistan

Lumberjack7392/bryce3/Georgetwin
"When GWB was elected my ultra liberal associates were convinced that there would storm troopers on every corner by the end of his presidency. "

That was back when people feared he might be a little bit competent LOL. He showed he wasn't quickly

abortion is not genocide
genocide is : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

Calling it genocide is flat wrong.

I am pro-life and it is obvious it is not genocide.
If it is, which group is it. The unborn won't
work since there is nothing systematic about it.
Unless individual women choosing to abort is what
you call systematic. Then we'd have to define
systematic.

Good column
>America is not czarist Russia or Iran under the shah, so that people might think that any change was bound to be for the better."

You mean its not?? Wheww! See what you get for listening to the left? But someone will come along to say, no it was a cheesy column with no content, strange times. Another thread mentioned a poll that only about 20% believed what the press said. Maybe that is a sign of sanity.

Lynn
For brain transplants, they should use The Brains of Hollywood Liberals. That way they’ll get one that hasn’t been used!

Bob Novakaine
Bob Novakaine writes: ""jackpine
mr. sowell, in the above article, listed Jim Jones, Mao, Stalin and Hitler as those who used empty emotional rhetoric to commit genocide, suggesting that without specific policy proposals from dem candidates we risk a similar fate. i was in no way suggesting that conservatives advocate genocide. i forgive you your misunderstanding. ""

No harm no foul, I guess I just misinterpreted your post. :o)

Don't go anywhere.
It's lunchtime here on the West Coast. Be back shortly.

Bryce3
Hollywood Hyperbole from Nitwits!

'Hanoi John' Mr. Theresa Heinz-Kerry ADVOCATED giving The UN control of US Foreign Policy.

CVN
I guess all words, ARE made up, by someone. I think the point is that, if a woman, for instance has her ovaries removed, the operation is called an oophorectomy, but someone who didn't know that terminology might say she had an ovariectomy, a made-up word not recognized by the medical community. Oh, they would know what you mean, but that's not the correct terminology.

bryce3 writes:
Georgetwin take heart
When GWB was elected my ultra liberal associates were convinced that there would storm troopers on every corner by the end of his presidency.

Didn't happen, but give the Wicked Witch of Chappaqua a chance, and she'll do it to eliminate the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy," read anyone who disagrees with her.

Georgetwin take heart
When GWB was elected my ultra liberal associates were convinced that there would storm troopers on every corner by the end of his presidency.

Sheepdog/old progrmr
OP. Click on Jackpines name.

Sheepdog. Perhaps Jackpines site may be the place to do that, so that we all can view them as photos and text. I wish I knew more about this stuff, but I use my computer for the internet and word processing only.

Georgetwin re your post @3:39
Your welcome...I noticed that it posted twice..sorry about ...Maybe it made the story twice as better...LOL

Bob Novokaine
You nailed it on the head.

And I said this earlier.

This is a column for people without a computer.

Then, demagogues?
Please.
No more so than the Repubs and they're not either.

Demagogue:
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times

Again as Bob and I have shown the beliefs and
resumes of the candidates are only vague to
someone who doesn't have access to a computer or
doesn't know his a$$ from his elbow on one.

Jackpine Savage writes:
Calling all Conservatives, pop over to my blog and get in on the chat!

No trolls allowed :op

Jackpine, I have tried, and cannot get past the home page. Help!

wildwest
The chat is in java, so you may need to update java to get in. I'm trying to find a php based chat to elinimate that, but so farthe only good ones I've found are expensive. Since this is basically an experiment for now, I'm going the cheapest route,. free :o)

Bob Novokaine.
You did no wrong in responding to the above article, but my point was to your comment, which I printed. My belief is that the dems actually DO promote genocide in their blanket endorsement of RoeVSWade, which is actually a part of the democrat party platform.

Of course there are individual republicans who also would prefer to keep the status quo where abortion is concerned, but it is not part of the GOP platform.

jackpine
mr. sowell, in the above article, listed Jim Jones, Mao, Stalin and Hitler as those who used empty emotional rhetoric to commit genocide, suggesting that without specific policy proposals from dem candidates we risk a similar fate. i was in no way suggesting that conservatives advocate genocide. i forgive you your misunderstanding.

Mr Novokaine
You are right: you can respond to the article here. However, the posters are also free to respond to whatever you write.


Motley Crue
Yes I received your e-mail. I'm sorry that I did not respond right away. Had some friends in from out of town. Also had to shovel my driveway 4 times as we got a ton of snow this past two days with more to come next Monday.
I think the reason you couldn't open it is because it was a different type of attachment. I've had that problem also sometimes. I feel bad that you can't view it. Wish I could figure out a way for you to view it. I'll ask around.

SheepDog
Thanks for the GREAT story you put on my Blog!

MotleyCrue
Count me in on that web site. Where is it? Wouldn't it be great to promote a site that could take on MoveOn and The Daily KOS. However, I am not sure we could ever elicit enough profanity and "politics of personal desruction" to really match those far left kooks.

Lynn
Aren't all words made up?

Bob Novakaine
Can you tell me one Republican who happens to have Genocide in their platform? Talk about BDS

And you libs wonder why we all think you're nutz.


Calling all Conservatives, pop over to my blog and get in on the chat!

No trolls allowed :op

bryce3
By then we will be The USA of The UN.

bryce3 re your post @3:00
I will only agree with the second sentence of your post. Just becuase the Democratic Party has a female and an African-American running for President, doesn't mean that they are going to vote for them just becuase of that. It's all about what's best for the country. And since all three candidates are espousing socialist policies doesn't mean that's what America needs.

wildwest. Strident? You? Poppycock!
Keep trying. I'm going to give it a shot later.

SSGT
Ask Hal how often he sits up and speaks for Shrillary?

sorry motley
i thought we were allowed to actually respond to the above article in the comments section.

jackpine savage
That's the thing about basic facts, they don't require obsfucation. And again I ask, how is my statement not factual?

SSGT!!
;-)

Morning , sheepdog.
It looks like a lot of us conservatives might end up on Jackpine's site. I guess we should click on his name to join. I don't know how he'll manage to keep out the dark side, though.

Did you get my email that I couldn't open your German VW link?

Moderate Mark. No one said anything about leaving TH. Life wouldn't be fun without a lib/pacifist to trash every so often. I'm a wolf, I live for raw meat.

MotleyCrue
We need to do something. I will give it a shot.


Roberto: Hal, how often do you like to make woopie?

Doofus: Well, I would have to say infrequently.

Roberto: When you say infrequently, do you mean one, or two words?

motley
i tried to get into jackpines site last night but had no luck. But will be trying again. you may find this hard to believe but yesterday I was accused of being too strident. ME too strident! I took it as a compliment

bryce3
""Again, when it comes to the proposition that any natural born American, regardless of race or gender, has a shot at becoming POTUS, the Dem ticket will be an illustration that it can happen. The same can't be said for the GOP. This is not theory, opinion, or emotion based, it is a simple statement of fact.""

Keep beating that poor dead horse bryce3, it may get up and walk again.
Not.

You sound like a broken record,you keep repeating the same line over and over and over......

yet, still the same results.

Hmm, maybe if you keep repeating it, eventually you'll get a different outcome. If nothing else, as a good liberal, you'll Feel Good.


Georgetown an even scarier prospect
For you to consider. Clinton wins as Prez w/Obama as her VP. They do well enough to get re-elected. Obama runs, having shedded the moniker of inexperienced.

Pure conjecture on my part, but what if?

Bob Novakaine writes:
specifics?
mr. sowell,
if you have a computer that has access to the internet, you can follow the links below and find actual specific proposals from the democratic candidates. no doubt you will be displeased with the policy preferences the dem candidates endorse, but you will be happy to know that none of them list genocide as one of their campaign promises.


http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/

Genocide may not be on the list, but destroying the US is, through higher taxes, more regulation, more government control, less choice, open borders, gutting the military, and government spending which is through the roof, budget busting with extreme regularity, junking the 2nd Amendment, and more and more governmental control of our lives. And if you believe that only people making more than $250,000 a year will pay higher taxes, I have a bridge in Brooklyn, I'll sell you real cheap.

Someone called Novokaine writes:
"no doubt you will be displeased with the policy preferences the dem candidates endorse, but you will be happy to know that none of them list genocide as one of their campaign promises."
----------------------------------
I must say, that is wonderful news. Thank you for sharing that with us, Novokaine, although why you felt it necessary I've no idea.

Oh, wait a minute. Does that mean they are going to come out for repealing RoeVsWade. Now that's a genocide worthy of repealing.


MotleyCrue
I'm already there, hon!!

I had fun yesterday, and Jackpine was kind enough to help me out, since I've never done "chatroom" before.

MotleyCrue
Sounds Good! The GOP is trying to marginalize us and we NEED to find/communicate with The Next Generation on Conservative Leaders. WACTH OUT for Newt, he caved on Global Warming and has been saying Conservatism NEEDS TO CHANGE amongst other claptrap!

buzzkat re your post 11:34
I was going to respond to AT but becuase I didn't have enough time to adequately respond to his post I didn't get a chance to rebutt his post. Your post is exactly what I was trying to say but I think you put it better than I could.
Good post...Thanks