Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, January 15, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Green "Disparate Impact"
by Thomas Sowell
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



It was front-page news on the January 14th issue of the San Francisco Chronicle that blacks by the tens of thousands have left the San Francisco Bay area since the 1990 census.

Since my book Applied Economics analyzed this situation a few years ago, it was nice to see that the information has finally reached the San Francisco Chronicle, though they have yet to explain the politics and the economics behind the exodus.

Unfortunately, this phenomenon is not peculiar to the San Francisco Bay Area and blacks are not the only group being forced out of upscale liberal communities in California. It is much the same story in Monterey and Los Angeles, for example.

Skyrocketing housing prices are forcing out families with children, as well as blacks and other people with low or even moderate incomes.

But these runaway housing prices in California did not just happen for no reason.

Prior to 1970, California housing prices were very similar to housing prices in the rest of the country. In more recent times, it has not been uncommon for California homes to cost three times what homes cost nationwide.

What happened in the 1970s was that severe government restrictions on building became common in coastal California. With supply restricted and demand not restricted, it was inevitable that prices would soar beyond many people's ability to pay.

The main impetus behind severe restrictions on building is environmentalist zealots who demand that vast amounts of land be set aside as "open space" on which nothing can be built.

It is not uncommon for substantial proportions of all the land in an entire county -- sometimes more than half -- to be set aside as "open space."

Environmentalists often talk as if they are trying to save the last few patches of greenery from being paved over, when in fact 90 percent of the land in the United States is undeveloped and forests alone cover more area than all the cities and towns in the country combined.

Behind much of the lofty and pretty talk are some ugly and selfish realities.

People who already own their homes in an upscale community pay no price for making it hard for others to move into their community. On the contrary, the value of the homes they already own shoots up when they restrict the supply of new homes.

In other words, they can keep out the less affluent people -- or, as they put it, "preserve the character of the community" -- while benefiting themselves economically in the name of green idealism.

"Open space" laws are just one of the weapons in their arsenal. Other legal impediments to building include so-called "smart growth" policies, historical preservation laws, and zoning boards and coastal commissions with arbitrary powers to limit or forbid building.

The financially ruinous powers of delay that these and other laws and institutions can impose on anyone wanting to build anything can be illustrated by a current legal case involving a developer who has for 15 years been prevented from building in the coastal California town of Half Moon Bay.

A judge recently awarded him $36 million in damages but that decision has been appealed. Anyone familiar with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals knows that anything can happen there -- including more years of delay.

Someone once said that the ability to tax is the ability to destroy. So is the ability to delay.

When a business sets standards or policies with adverse effects that fall disproportionately on minorities, courts call that a "disparate impact" and equate it with discrimination.

But the same liberals who applaud that approach when it comes to businesses would be appalled if the same standard were applied to their own environmentalist restrictions that force vast numbers of blacks out of their own upscale liberal communities.

Nor do black "leaders" who are quick to cry "discrimination" and "racism" in other contexts. Apparently it all depends on whose ox is gored.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Thomas Sowell and Townhall.com's daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
It's simple hypocrisy
Liberals like to bemoan the power of monopolies to price gouge the innocent citizenry, pretending that, in the absence of government intervention, evil business will run rampant over the rights of individuals. As anyone with a grasp of economics knows, however, it is government that CREATES monopolies in nearly every case.

And this is no exception. The current residents create monopolist pricing with government imposed barriers to entry. They could not gouge people wishing to pay (lower) market prices without the complicity of government to exclude newcomers.

The attempt to assume the moral high ground of "environmental protection" is pure self-interested chicanery.

Thank you Dr. Sowell
This is another excellent example of how liberal policies end up hurting far more people than they help. In this case, the only people they help are the elite rich. It also exposes the lie that liberal policies champion minorities and the underpriveleged.

How many of these "compassionate liberals" are unhappy that people have had to move out of the Bay Area? If they are running for office they will tell you they are the only ones who care about them and that we need to do something about this serious problem. Privately, I'd wager they aren't too upset. They still blindly get the support of the minorities and can live in neighborhoods where they don't have to deal with them. The perfect storm.

An abominable practice
This abominable practice really began with the Sierra Club and Lake Tahoe. If we had a Supreme Court in reality instead of a collection of 9 liberals it would not happen. Over the years since Lake Tahoe the court has become slightly more realistic and they have ruled in favor of the people who have been robbed by the government.

What am I talking about here you ask? It’s simple and it’s one of the most fundamental rights in a free society. It’s the right to own and do what you wish with your own property. If you do not have this right you have no rights. When the government tells you that you can not build at all on your property in order to establish a “green” zone they have converted your property to their use. If you can not build on it, then you can uses it at all, so in effect the government has created a State mandated wilderness area out of your property. A real court would have called that unconstitutional under the 5th Amendment for “taking” of property without due process or compensation. Folks this amendment harkens all the way back to the Magna Carta in 1215.

The Supremes have finally got around to alleviating some of this in the case of LUCAS v. SOUTH CAROLINA COASTAL COUNCIL, 505 U.S. 1003 (1992). The State tried to argue that no unlawful taking had occurred because this fell under the “harmful or noxious uses” doctrine. Previously under the more liberal courts local and national governments were able to pretty much anything they wanted with respect to regulations without compensation and with impunity. Lucas has changed that for the better, but it still has not eliminated all of the problems.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&v ol=505&invol=1003

Ty
for the excellent read.

That's Why You Clean Up Spilled Coffee
Otherwise, your property may be declared as a "wetlands habitat".

>;)

Silly "conservative" creatures

As if the course of history had ever been finished. As if indiviual rights and private property rights had ever been completely, irrefutably established with the American Constitution!

The Trail of Tears continues, power and self-interest, and the Man with the biggest gun always wins!

Andrew Jackson rides again! What's ours is ours, what's yours is negotiable!

Simple Hypocrisy?

LOL. Yeh, tell that to the Cherokees!


The best use of the land?...

Tell that to the Environmentalists.

The Old Country here
And in the old country (Europe), one could not hunt the land, if one was a serf. Nor could you change the size or shape of your house, nor could you change your crops, nor could you plant or graze fields left unused, without the permission of the local noble. Funny how history repeats itself.

Wake up America
Can't you see that you are slowly being reduced to serf's of the land, with your rights being taken away one by one, whether by local legislative tyranny or tyranny of the Supreme Court? Those who wish to make you slaves will not cease till you are on bowed knee to them.

Delay, the great killer
"Someone once said that the ability to tax is the ability to destroy. So is the ability to delay."

The great C. Northcote Parkinson -- yes, he of Parkinson's Law -- once wrote that "Delay is the deadliest form of denial." Delay, because it allows you to nurture hope that you might yet win through, keeps you in place, discouraging you from seeking superior opportunities. Outright denial is preferable; it compels you to accept reality, cut your losses, and move on.

Not just CA
Here in Northern Virginia we are having much the same problem (though, admittedly neither as pronounced nor as politically radical as in CA). Housing prices here are comparable to housing prices in California. In Stafford County, 40-50 miles from Washington DC, you can still get housing for under $300,000. But only just. Getting below $275,000 requires a townhouse or a foreclosure. Below $250,000? A condo (with exhorbidant "condo fees" on top of the mortgage) or a "Unique fixer-upper oportunity" where the AC doesn't work and there's water damage apparent in the ceilings.

And this is one of the cheaper counties out here. In Loudoun County, one of the fastest growing in the country, and about 30-40 miles West of DC, their zoning and "No Growth" laws are making it even more expensive than locales closer in to town. "Low Income" around here gets you a $950/month apartment if you need more than one bedroom. For families who don't make 100K a year, you have to live in small apartments and trailer parks 40, 50, 60 miles from your job, or you have to live in the slums in and around DC.

The Creative Class by Ricard Florida

For years Alexandria Va has used the economic plan of "tolerance, smart growth and art subsidy" to create and sustain the "creative class.' In the passed five years over 10,000 poor have been driven from the city.

They call all who don't agree parochial - read Catholic - and are equally agressive towards religious, families and the middle and lower middle class (unless they are an emploee of the city - then they get discounted and sbsidized housing.)

Now they are going after the 10,000 small businesses who aren't "high end" enough, who are independent and conservative by nature with "equalization" of taxation between residential and commercial property.

One of their Democratic cronies just bought out the last local paper that presented conservative, republican opinion. The new addition was solely Democratic coverage - Mark Warner is pleased. Apparently money can buy anything including Democracy.

The Democratic party here is intolerant, vicious and exclusive - and the liberal community can't seem to get enough of it.

Such is live inside the beltway where public employees make far more than an "outsider" and continue to grow government far above inflation.

In addition they look to sustain the gay population because "this is a measure of tolerance which creates an environment ripe for innovation." However, since those in control are in general agreement, there is no creative conflict only play acting which is lauded by sycophants.

I think the one aspect they snigger over with their awards and prizes is, we the non-governmental types are paying for it dearly and ultimately are being driven out of business with ruinous permitting and high taxation. However, according to them, that just makes us parochial.


You can always count on a liberal...
...to go off the intellectual deep end.

Of course, the references to Native Americans is a complete non sequitur, which is why it looks so silly in this venue. Of course, no human construct is ever perfect, but the Constitution WAS irrefutably designed to protect individual rights and property rights.

And the whole point is that environmentalists (even if that were who we were really talking about here rather than self-interested homeowners) do not have a monopoly on the determination of the best use of land and must, instead, rely upon the power of government to enforce their wishes on everyone else.

The "best use" is inevitably determined by the market which factors in the desires of every actor in the marketplace. Any interference with that, by definition, yileds that which is NOT the best use.

Here in Kanukistan
This has been common practice in Soviet style countries for at least a century, and is the case here in Kanukistan, where push is to get the proles into tiny apartments in massive downtown high-rises jammed together, so they can walk to work (because we pay an extra $100 per month for a parking space), while the Apparatchiks and Nomenklatura live in McMansions and drive Lincoln Navigators or take limousines to work.

Up here most of the proletariat have accepted this as reality and pay $250,000 for a 339 square foot condo on the 61st floor of a high rise with a view of other high rises, and shuffle their way to work. There are small acts of defiance. In our December blizzard, where the sidewalks were as always not plowed, we peons had to walk in the wheel ruts and get off into the snowbank when a car came by. One prole woman did not get into the snowbank. I saw her walking along with an Apparatchik in a Lincoln Navigator crawling along behind her, the woman at the wheel relentlessly blowing her horn to no avail. One small defiance, but it made our day.

Not many lots left.
("Environmentalists often talk as if they are trying to save the last few patches of greenery from being paved over, when in fact 90 percent of the land in the United States is undeveloped and forests alone cover more area than all the cities and towns in the country combined." - T. Sowell)

Early last century landowners, generally from families of early settlers, left large tracts to the state. Additionally, my small CT town occasionally buys big farms (few are left now) for "open space", bigger schools with soccer fields, etc. The true purpose of the open space - and not any secret - is to prevent further building, that brings in more children, that means more schools and teachers, that means higher property taxes, that means ...

As a result in this town nearly half of the land is state or town-owned and another large portion is water company. In the town just north of here, it's more like 70% unavailable land. The few potential building lots are in the $100K's/acre and now most are required to be three acres in order to build.

Oh, yes and then there's the
Inland Wetlands Commission. Try and build on that formerly valuable piece of property, Comrade!

How much longer
can these liberal bozos ignore the law of unintended consequences?

The harm they inflict on the little people is gargantuan, compared to any slight inconvenience felt by them.

These elites are indeed constructing a medieval society where they are safe behind their castle walls, and we serfs toil from sun up to sundown for their benefit.

Wait don't property taxes go up
Dr. Sowell writes: "People who already own their homes in an upscale community pay no price for making it hard for others to move into their community. On the contrary, the value of the homes they already own shoots up when they restrict the supply of new homes." Wouldn't this cause the upscale communities property taxes to go up? Isn't that a price that they pay for making it harder for others to move into their community?
Shouldn't we have some zoning so the guy next to my house doesn't decide to start a junk yard next door? How about a hazardous waste dump next to your house?
Dr. Sowell writes:
"Environmentalists often talk as if they are trying to save the last few patches of greenery from being paved over, when in fact 90 percent of the land in the United States is undeveloped and forests alone cover more area than all the cities and towns in the country combined."

Of course that undeveloped land is not on the CA. coast line. The forests he speaks of are only there because they are national forest and couldn't be cut down. The other forest land is simply tree farms not natural forest.
Where does Dr. Sowell live?





retchemprof
You know what the sad thing is if they are trying to keep out nes building to limit the number of kids is that they are cutting their own throats. Single familiy homes bring in on the average 2 children for 12 years but they pay property taxes for the average of 50 years. What doesn't bring in taxes and does bring in loads of children is low income housing, or even multi-family housing for that matter.

Vic and redeyerex

Vic, by limiting children, they can rid themselves of hard paternalism to create equalization between hetrosexual and homosexual lifestyles.

And Redeyerex, this is why they have tax credits for property taxes and why our Democrat controled town are now going after the commercial base. However since most of the 10,000 business are 1-5 employees and only the nomenklature of 750 business belong to the Chamber of Commerce - and the Chamber of Commerce supports almost everything these Democrats can come up with... Those 10,000 business are easy pickens.

The Democrats are masters of alienating and pricing out those they want to soak to the edge of bancrupcy so tey must sell the assets they own to like minded Democrats before they finally are driven out.

Ive got mine
you cant have yours! More roadblocks, restrictions, constraints, for the good of whom?? Its just another form of elitism plain and simple. After all the everyday folks don't know what is good for them. But don't worry folks it will all pale to insignificance once the EPA really gets going on global warming. Fools allow themselves to be lead by fools. We don't have to worry about foreign invasions we are rotting from within.

Not only on a Local level

Pelosi and friends had 11,000 plus pork projects. They allocated the equivilent of about 13,500 to the 74,000 deficient bridges. Now the congressional (read Democrat) commission, National Surface Transportation Policy and Revenue Stud is recommending 25 to 40 cent gas tax.

Demcrats ave to buy there votes through pork not take care of the really important things like failing bridges. This also increases everyone's cost so once again, families with children who have already been forced out of metro areas, the poor and the non-governmnetal working poor will be the losers.

Let's not forget Jim Webb wants all Virginians to pickup the cost of metro because his Democrat constituencies demand it.

redeyerex
Yes bring on the straw man arguments. We are talking about environmental takings here, not local zoning laws and deed covenants.

And no, the forests are NOT the product of national forests. Most of them are the result of big lumber and paper companies planting trees.

In any case, yopur lame arguments don't address the real situation anyway. If these eco-idiots wich to prevent anyone from building on their own property, then they should buy it.

7.4 billion spent on pork such as

The National First Ladies Library in Canton Ohio, rural domestic preparedness in Kentucky and a high speed ferry to some unpronounceable island in Alaska.

Clearly Democrats and COngress in general have their priorities focused on reelection. Democrats are ruining this country.

States are equally responsible for misspending transportation dollars on pet projects rather than repairing and replacing existing infrastructure.

New Sign To Be Hung at City Lines


Environmental Regulations
at Work Here
No Poor People Allowed
Only Rich Liberals May
LIVE HERE


^The new face of racism ^

PRODUCTIVE ACTIVITY
The abovementioned is a common law concept, developed in England.In America,you know it as Eminent Domain.The purpose of both is to get the best usage from the land.When one looks back at factors,such as;Reduction in crime,environmental preservation and less jeopardy of life by natural disaster(Earthquakes),the impact is not disparate.In most communities these are their goals.Blacks just like Whites,can buy homes in Northern California.All they need is money.The GREEN stuff does not discriminate.The courts, shall not apply any remedy because there has been no INJURY.SORRY!!!

serfs
Around 1960, the liberals in congress decided that they didn't want to be public servants anymore. They want to be Royals whose life careers are "member of Congress". They want to be in office for life, then entail the office on to their sons. They want you to have to bow to them, and call them, "My Lord". Remember that Slick Willy acted like a tyrant king, with his lying under oath treatment of Monica, etc.

VIC: The eco-idiots prevent people from using their properties to force the owners to sell them to the eco-idiots, who will do whatever they want with the properties.

KILLER
What a joke. Imminent domain is supposed to be for the government to have the ability to take land that it needs for the public USES. i.e. roads, bridges, right of way etc. In using imminent domain the government MUST also pay for the land they are taking. That is the 5thamendment to the Constitution.

Go back to class.

Ron
IF the eco-idiots were actually buying the land that would be one thing. They are not. They, or their paid lobby, get the Lamocrats to pass laws such as what this artcile is about that prevents people from using their property and they pay NOTHING and the government pays NOTHING.

That is what the case I posted this morning was all about.

"Smart Growth" is neither!
Q. Why does the left love euphemisms?

A. Because they hate reality.

The left's argument isn't really with the right, it's with reality - they don't like it.

That's why they tend to flock to professions where they can live in a make-believe world and let others pay the consequences of their own erroneous decisions. Academia (tenure), government work (civil service protection), media (paid by adverisers who care only about circulation, not truth, etc. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Property Taxes
In a recent visit to California (the Bay Area), I asked people about property taxes, and was told that, unlike here in New Jersey, they are state set, not by the local community. I was also told that property taxes in CA are based on the last purchase price of a home (at a rate of about 1.5%) and remain fixed until the property is sold again. So no matter how high the property goes up in value, it does not affect the current owner as far as property tax rate is calculated. This is tailor made for current owners to want to keep the available pool of property low, and thus jack up demand (and price). Plus, 2nd mortgages are not included in the property tax calculation, so ramped up property values represent a available pool of equity money for the current homeowner to tap as desired. SWEET!!! And certainly no motivation for current owners to want anything more than status quo, and continally rising housing prices. And by all means, keep out the "riff-raff" (read poor here)that might lower those values!

New Jersey is worse in that property taxes are higher on average than anywhere else in the country, and all property tax is set by local community. And subject to change that includes retroactive change! And always higher, even if schools have less students year-over-year. School portion of property tax is 50% in most Jersey communities. And we all know two things: New Jersey is a bluer than blue state and the NEA has a lot of influence on "blue" politicians.

Jersey Devil
The property tax thing in CA is the result of a proposition (ballot inititiative) that was passed back in the 70s when I was living out there.

It was designed to prevent property taxes from going through the roof. This was after mass escaltion of taxes. Too bad that like NJ, SC doesn't have the ability to get stuff like this on the ballot. If it did my property taxes would not have gone up by a factor of 5 since I bought the house.

They've lost all common sense
Their quest for power has destroyed any common sense they might have been born with.
Today's papers have article about how they are successfully preventing the building of coal fired electricity producing plants. This follows articles the last few days that California is trying to take state control of all of the thermostats in order to keep folks from using too much electricity for heat or cooling.

It's simple hypocrisy!!!!!
F1etch - It's simple hypocrisy

DITTO!

I started
reading Dr. Sowell's column in the mid 90's and one of the first articles I read was about the high price of housing in Marin County and the fact that it was keeping miniorities from owning homes. (Whew) And to think to this day that practice still exists. Liberal mantra to Minorites: We'll help you any way we can but just don't live in my neighborhood as my home price will depreciate if you do.

Great excerpt from the book!
This column is but a small excerpt from Dr. Sowell's book, "Applied Economics, Thinking Beyond Stage One", and I urge everyone to buy it, read it and then give it to a liberal to read or donate it to the library.

The subtitle, thinking beyond stage one is the most important concept that runs throughout the book and explains why most politicians seem to get away with policies that are counterproductive in the long run, yet the politicians are rarely held accountable.

I am about to start on his book, "Black Rednecks, White Liberals" and I am sure it will be just as good.

Amen -- ABSOLUTELY !!!
I read somewhere about that "new and very different form of socialism" that’s been initiated in fairly recent years so that the rich may possibly protect their communities from even the dangers of a free market. A whole array of laws and policies prevents outsiders from buying up property near them, even when these outsiders are ready to pay prices determined by supply and demand, rather than by eminent domain. Like, those "open space" laws have spread across the country to supposedly supply some “green” to the suburbs and “protect” upscale communities? This just might represent one of the biggest collectivizations of land since the days of Josef Stalin. You see, some upscale residents say that they have a right to protect "our community." But not even the rich own the whole community. They own what they paid for -- their own individual property.

BUT, they get the government to collectivize the often vastly larger surrounding property, at taxpayer expense (not theirs) in order to keep the “unwashed masses” from settling near them and spoiling their views. Moreover, they then wrap themselves in a “mantle of idealism” while doing this while denouncing critics and those not sharing their point-of-view.

It seems that today’s (and yesterday’s?) socialist thinkers have seemed to have solved all the problems of the poor in this country. It’s something like this: Bring everyone up to the middle-class level via giveaways, tax the hell out of "rich" people to pay for it, and then everyone will be smart, literate, healthy and happy - - just the way they do it in the European Union. And that’s interesting, inasmuch as just when Western Europe is recognizing that socialism has resulted in high unemployment, unbridled entitlements, decreasing productivity and no obvious political solution to reverse it, American socialists want us to give it a try....

Dr. Sowell, as usual, has nailed it.

One of the dirty little liberal secrets
One of the dirty little liberal secrets...is eugenics. If you take a look at many of their policies and practices and especially the current enviromentalism anyone with a shred of integrity can see their ultimate goal. Continue to allow millions to die of malaria by keeping DDT from being used. Continue the racist eugenic practices established by the racist Margaret Sanger by utilizing planned parenthood. The policies Dr. Sowell exposes. The fact that the MSM and race hustlers continually try to foster anger, hatred and distrust. When in fact during the 5 years we've been in Afghanistan/Iraq and lost around 4,000 soldiers over 30 THOUSAND young black men have been murdered on the streets of America by other young black men. Yet the liberals, MSM and race hustlers don't seem to give two hoots. I wonder why it is so many Americans are blinded to these insidious, genocidial tactics???

One of the dirty little liberal secrets
One of the dirty little liberal secrets...is eugenics. If you take a look at many of their policies and practices and especially the current enviromentalism anyone with a shred of integrity can see their ultimate goal. Continue to allow millions to die of malaria by keeping DDT from being used. Continue the racist eugenic practices established by the racist Margaret Sanger by utilizing planned parenthood. The policies Dr. Sowell exposes. The fact that the MSM and race hustlers continually try to foster anger, hatred and distrust. When in fact during the 5 years we've been in Afghanistan/Iraq and lost around 4,000 soldiers over 30 THOUSAND young black men have been murdered on the streets of America by other young black men. Yet the liberals, MSM and race hustlers don't seem to give two hoots. I wonder why it is so many Americans are blinded to these insidious, genocidial tactics???

Is there something bad in this
world that liberals aren’t responsible for creating?

This is just another pseudo intellectual column by senile old man who’s trying to bash liberals for his misguided readers. Maybe I'm a little bit slow, but I'm not drawing the connection here.

Sowell states:

"It is not uncommon for substantial proportions of all the land in an entire county -- sometimes more than half -- to be set aside as "open space."

Really, is this primarily in rural areas??? Maybe it's because I live on the east coast, but I don't see much land being set aside in New York, Philadelphia or DC for "open space", not even in "upscale liberal communities". On every block, there's an apartment, condominum or house of some sort to occupy ALL "Open space". Maybe Sowell should get out a bit more.

then there's this comment:

"People who already own their homes in an upscale community pay no price for making it hard for others to move into their community."

Sowell doesn't really draw the connection between liberals, environmentalist, and government restrictions. Is he stating that all liberal environmentalists who own homes are the ones responsible for these so called restrictions? Are "liberal environmentalist" who own homes the ones “making it hard for others to move into their communities"? If that's the case, I would like to see some evidence to support that, instead of this sort of ambiguous opinion Sowell offers in this egotistical, dismissive way. Just because someone acts as if their opinion is fact, doesn't mean that it actually is fact.


Is there something bad in this... p2
Finally, as I stated earlier, there are very few building restrictions in urban areas, something Sowell obviously doesn't talk about. Since that's the case, why would I believe that there are building restrictions in rural areas? If building restrictions were to exist, you would think they would exist in areas that lack "Open Space". And what specific building restriction laws is Sowell talking about? Can I get a name, a year, anything?

To Coin A Phrase . . .
How about "Realty Racism?" Let's add that to the PC Dictionary!

Anthony Thomas
Anthony Thomas writes: Tuesday, January, 15, 2008 10:28 AM
Is there something bad in this
world that liberals aren’t responsible for creating?

This is just another pseudo intellectual column by senile old man who’s trying to bash liberals for his misguided readers.

Anthony you need to look in the mirror. You dont have to like what Dr Sowell says but to try and deny his intellect is just plain stupid.

Housing projects
The main reason cities put up projects was to keep the blacks from moving into their neighborhoods.Rent was set low enough so they could afford it.

Anthony
Like clockwork, you show up to bash another article by Dr. Sowell. However, as usual, you resort to name-calling and simply stating you want "more evidence". How about countering Dr. Sowell with evidence that flat out disproves his comments.

I would think a misguided and "senile old man" should be rather easy to refute.

Also..
"Nor do black "leaders" who are quick to cry "discrimination" and "racism" in other contexts. Apparently it all depends on whose ox is gored."


What was the point of the above statement? The self haters always feel the need to take cheap shots at African Americans who he states “are quick to cry discrimination” (he doesn’t specify who these people are), even if they aren’t really relevant to the discussion. Somehow we go from liberal environmentalist to African American Leaders who fight discrimination, What? And the self haters have the nerve to call African American leaders “racial hustlers”.

As Jim Carey said in Ace Ventura Pet Detective, Looo-ser. LOL.

Icedog
"How about countering Dr. Sowell with evidence that flat out disproves his comments. "



Uhh, I did. Has Sowell ever been to New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington Dc? I think there are plenty of “upscale liberal communities" in these areas, and as I said earlier, there aren't many "open spaces" in these areas. Anyone who lives in one of these areas knows this. So what is Sowell talking about?

Vic
The case you referenced,Lucas vs State of South Carolina,is not on point, when it comes to the circumstances described in Dr. Sowell's article.Mr. Lucas had a case,which had it's nexus in the fact that it was a "After the Fact" case.In that his "Bundle of Rights" had been secured prior to the preservation act and no retroactive affect could be suitable,without compensation.The fact, that low to middle class families are denied access to better communities, are not governmentally created,but are results of the Economy.The justification for the aforementioned statement,is the simple fact, that not many of these people drive Aston Martin cars.If Any...?

Anthony Thomas
Now that was a big comeback Sooooo intelligent. It proves sooo much, I'm convenced.

Now quote Jim Carry and Ace Ventura some more
Puleeeeze!!!!!!!!!

hagar
"Anthony you need to look in the mirror. You dont have to like what Dr Sowell says but to try and deny his intellect is just plain stupid."


Of course a man with Sowell's credentials isn't an intellectual lightweight, but where is the substance in his articles. He constantly attacks liberals and blacks without providing the facts to back it up. Being both a liberal and black, I obviously take offense and take pleasure in pointing out his lack of substance to support his arguments.

nanna
"Now that was a big comeback Sooooo intelligent. It proves sooo much"

Thanks! I ‘m glad you too realize that Sowell is an intellectual charlatan that doesn’t provide a thorough analysis when he attacks liberals and blacks.

Anthony Thomas
You'd better believe they restrict land use out here. The Preble jumping mouse was on such instance, when it jsut happened that a mouse was "found' on property owned by a developer. If they can't find a mouse, they'll use a rabbit, or a sage grouse, or they'll plant wolves.
The forests are burning at an alarming rate every year because timbering is stopped, motorized access is denied. Spraying for beetles is not allowed "too unnatural", etc. They are destroying our country with their unending lawsuits to gain control without responsibility.
Overall, I guess you are right, there isn't a lot of bad that libs aren't responsible for.

Killer
Once again you are unable to come up with an intelligent response. That case is most certainly germane to the items described by Dr. Sowell. The people who own property are prohibited from building on it by the local governments in order to provide these “green” spaces. This is literally the same thing that happened at Lake Tahoe. The people who own the land, in most cases, have owned the land for a long time. The ones who bought it after the new law went into effect bought at fire sale prices because the government had reduced the value of the land. If the SF area “green laws” are similar to the ones at Tahoe what will happen is that you can build on the land that already has a foundation on it and you can’t build on anything else.

The ruling in Lucas was that if the government takes your land for it’s own use via a regulatory taking it then has to pay you fair market value. Google “Halfmoon Bay” for the latest case. This one has resulted in a judgement against the city of Halfmoon Bay for more than their annual budget and the ruling is likely to have been based on Lucas.

Anthony Thomas,
Mr Sowell wrote:
"It is not uncommon for substantial proportions of all the land in an entire county -- sometimes more than half -- to be set aside as "open space."

Anothony Wrote:
"Really, is this primarily in rural areas??? Maybe it's because I live on the east coast, but I don't see much land being set aside in New York", etc..

My response:
Mr. Sowell is talking about what is happening in CA! Everything you wrote in response to Mr. Sowell comment is irrelevant.

--------------------

Mr Sowell wrote:
"People who already own their homes in an upscale community pay no price for making it hard for others to move into their community."

Be honest now, did you read read this article?

Anthony wrote:
"Sowell doesn't really draw the connection between liberals, environmentalist, and government restrictions."

My response:
Again did you not read? Mr Sowell in the next paragraph correctly the arguments used by supporters of these regulations to get them passed. THEY VOTED FOR THESE REGULATIONS KNOWING THE LIBERAL ENVIRONMENTAL ARGUMENTS. and knowing how those regulation would benefit them.

I think I know who the senile one really is.


killer
" The fact, that low to middle class families are denied access to better communities, are not governmentally created,but are results of the Economy."

Well, yes and no. The LOCAL "economy", or better yet, "market" is affected by the actions of the people via the local government. So, government interference in the market by buying up available land and enforcing outrageous environmental restrictions (the aforementioned Inland Wetlands Commission) becomes a major influence on land prices. That does indeed keep many people out of the community - but placing the blame on the general economy is misleading, at the least.

Knight Who Said NI
I was thinking about you the other day! I was at thinkgeek.com, and saw a "Knight of NI" figurine! Almost had a hernia, I was laughing so hard.... ;-)

retchemprof
My understanding is that they are not buying the land. They are just making it impossible to build on it.

Poor Anthony - - -
He apparently missed my earlier note about that "new and very different form of socialism" that’s been initiated in fairly recent years so that the rich may possibly protect their communities from even the dangers of a free market. A whole array of laws and policies prevents outsiders from buying up property near them, even when these outsiders are ready to pay prices determined by supply and demand, rather than by eminent domain. Like, those "open space" laws have spread across the country to supposedly supply some “green” to the suburbs and “protect” upscale communities? This just might represent one of the biggest collectivizations of land since the days of Josef Stalin. You see, some upscale residents say that they have a right to protect "our community." But not even the rich own the whole community. They own what they paid for -- their own individual property.

BUT, they get the government to collectivize the often vastly larger surrounding property, at taxpayer expense (not theirs) in order to keep the “unwashed masses” from settling near them and spoiling their views. Moreover, they then wrap themselves in a “mantle of idealism” while doing this while denouncing critics and those not sharing their point-of-view.

It seems that today’s (and yesterday’s?) socialist thinkers have seemed to have solved all the problems of the poor in this country. It’s something like this: Bring everyone up to the middle-class level via giveaways, tax the hell out of "rich" people to pay for it, and then everyone will be smart, literate, healthy and happy - - just the way they do it in the European Union.... socialism-personified!

Anthony Thomas
If you READ the very first sentences of the article, you will see that he was talking about the SF Bay Area, and other areas of CA. I grew up in the Bay Area. Every day I drove to school past a massive area of hills with a LARGE sign that read: OPEN SPACE. They are all over the place out here. In fact, the open space behind my parents' house was slated for housing developments that ended up being (guess what?) DELAYED for over 10 years. Yet, when the govn't decided they wanted to use some of the land for their purposes, it was done without a hitch.

retchemprof
I'll partially retract that. I have found evidence that in some case they are buying the land, in others they are simply rezoning it (regulatory taking), and in the Half-moon Bay case they intentionally created a wetland on someone else's property to render it unusable.

Poor Anthony is right
Poor child, I realize he is thinking with a new brain and hasn't learned how to use it yet.

Either that, or his brain has just been washed, and he can't do a thing with it.






Vic
In this town it's both. Our town recently bought a couple of hundred acres in multiple purchases and is considering another 300 +/_.

The former purchases were ostensibly for ball fields, etc., and "open space", but then we built a new middle school with abundant soccer and baseball fields on previously purchased property. The 300 acres are being considered for "future use". Huh? (I hope it's for a golf course, Not likely - pesticides, you know. And there's a lot of "inland wetlands" on that parcel.)

YLG
As you can guess I am a Monty Python fan. Can't believe they would make a figurine looking like a Knight from NI. Must be an ugly figurine, Unlike ME :).


Everyone
Do you think Anthony just scans the article looking for comments he can take exception to while missing entirely the context they are written in?

I have seen quite a few of his posts and this seems to be a pattern. Lilly is quite often guilty of this as well.

I don't know why they don't stop, they must feel foolish when someone responding to them just pulls a quote from the next paragraph blowing their argument out of the water.

Knight Who Said NI
Anothony Wrote:
"Really, is this primarily in rural areas??? Maybe it's because I live on the east coast, but I don't see much land being set aside in New York", etc..

Knight Who Said NI wrote:
"Mr. Sowell is talking about what is happening in CA! Everything you wrote in response to Mr. Sowell comment is irrelevant."

Well if it's true that Sowell is primarily talking about California, then his entire column is irrelevant, and building restrictions aren't a national concern. Who cares what San Francisco does, especially if it's not indicative of what's going on in the nation in as a whole.

Also Sowell states:

"Bt the same liberals who applaud that approach when it comes to businesses would be appalled if the same standard were applied to their own environmentalist restrictions that force vast numbers of blacks out of their own upscale liberal communities."

he continues:
"nor do black "leaders" who are quick to cry "discrimination" and "racism" in other contexts. Apparently it all depends on whose ox is gored.

Is Sowell talking about California Liberals????? Liberals in New your, DC, Philly, Chicago, etc, don’t go around fighting for more “open spaces”. See, one of my biggest problems with Sowell and other political demagogues’ is that they uses insignificant micro occurrences as away to insult liberals and blacks in a sort of underhanded way. If Sowell is talking about California liberals, he should say “California liberals” and not try to relate it to Liberalism as a whole. And if Sowell is talking about African American leaders in California, he should say that, and not relate it to African American leaders as a whole.

Knight Who Said NI
Actually, the figurine is kinda cute!

As for your post above, yes, it does seem like they pull a quote out of context. I've called lilly on it many times, but she never responds to me. Except the one time I asked her if she responds to anyone, and she responded to my post. But that was it.

I Have Read The Article And The Posts

There are many thoughtful, cogent, and pertinent observations...

Except Anthony Thomas who is just pitifully IGNUNT!

Blacks who cry discrimination
Anthony Thomas questions the veracity of Dr. Sowell's claim that there are black leaders who cry discrimination at the drop of a hat. Mr. Thomas's question is based on the fact that Dr. Sowell doesn't name names.

He doesn't have to, it's the same few people every time:
Al Sharpton

Jesse Jackson

the late Johnnie Cochrane

Rep Charles Rangel (Institute the draft so that the children of rich white folks have to serve and die in the military not just poor blacks).

The Pastor at Barack Obama's Church (Whose name I cannot remember, but was mentioned in Bret Prelutsky's column, yesterday.)

There are others as well.

The reason Dr. Sowell (and quite a number of other writers) never mention them by name is because it's always the same people, and mentioning Al Sharpton's name (for example) in every piece you do on race relations is pointlessly repetitive.

Vic
If you were to read, all the cases on "TAKING", many would be germane but not all will be on point.The "Police Powers" of the state allow it to take certain actions.If you want to know your vulnerability,hire a Lawyer,so that your "Bundle of Rights" can be properly accessed.My specialty is Real Estate Law and I still say, that your reference is "OFF POINT".The land referenced by Dr. Sowell, was accumulated by the city of San Francisco, after the buying of several partials of land.The city did not take anyone's property by legislative action.In that they have decide to adopt a "Quality of Life" which requires great amounts of green space is their prerogative.Please understand the word "PREROGATIVE"!You may tell Dr. Sowell,that there is plenty of available land in Oakland...Please.I do admire the way, that they "CLEANED" house in San Francisco.Pardon the PUND.It was "PRICELESS"!

Knight Who Said NI
Actually I read the entire column , they all read the same: Bla, bla, bla, the Liberals this, bla bla bla, bla, the liberals that.. Bla, bla, bla African Americans this, bla, bla, bla African Americans that.

This why I titled my original post "Is there something bad in this
World that liberals aren’t responsible for creating".

Sowell and others go on and on in these irrelevant analyses and diatribes all so they can some how relate it to portraying liberals and blacks in a negative light. No matter whose playbook, it's always the same play.

Green Means Racist And Nazi
Roy Innes makes no bones about portraying the environmentalists as racists and Nazis with an incurable, inbred desire to destroy African American human beings. He has offered plenty of evidence over the years that prove his claims.

The environmentalists, like their Germanic, white Aryan supremacist predecessors, base their beliefs on their self-made assertions about the racial superiority of whites and genetic inferiority of blacks.

You can see how ludicrous they are by comparing Innes, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas to Ted Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, Albert Gore Sr., Sen Byrd and Sen Harry Reid (all of the later five have undeniable racial hatred of black human beings).

Green Means Racist and Nazi
Roy Innes makes no bones about portraying the environmentalists as racists and Nazis with an incurable, inbred desire to destroy African American human beings. He has offered plenty of evidence over the years that prove his claims.

The environmentalists, like their Germanic, white Aryan supremacist predecessors, base their beliefs on their self-made assertions about the racial superiority of whites and genetic inferiority of blacks.

You can see how ludicrous they are by comparing Innes, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas to Ted Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, Albert Gore Sr., Sen Byrd and Sen Harry Reid (all of the later five have undeniable racial hatred of black human beings).

Vic gets it wrong again
Vic: Here are the facts about who owns forest land in California.

Forest ownership in CA
State Ownership =93.41%
Federal Ownership = 0.99%
Private Ownership = 5.38% You see Vic Big lumber doesn't own much of the forest land at all. It took all of 2 minutes to find this out, but once again you argue with your emotions ( just like a liberal ) and don't have the facts.


Knight of Ni
You certainly pegged it a few posts back -- he's a bit of a jerk, dismiss him; not worth the bother.
Annnnnnd, if you haven't already, be certain to see "Spamalot" - - - we did a few weeks ago in NYC and it was GREAT!
Now, if you'll pardon me, gotts trim the shrubbry....

Anthony Thomas
Anthony Wrote:
"Actually I read the entire column , they all read the same: Bla, bla, bla, the Liberals this, bla bla bla, bla, the liberals that.. Bla, bla, bla African Americans this, bla, bla, bla African Americans that."

Unfortunately, when your responses to an article consists of non sequiturs, quotes obviously taken out of context etc... Your post say far more about you then they do about the author and what he wrote.

You say the article reads to you like bla, bla this or bla, bla, that. Judging by your posts, I believe you.

Knight Who Said NI
AT is a race bating troll who comes on just to stir up responses. The best thing to do with him is ignore him.

redeyerex

That is California

Most of the forest land that has been added to forrest land in the last 50 years has been done by private buisiness. And in fact, therre is more land in forrest now than there was 100 years ago.

Anthony Thomas
So how do you explain property values that triple? How do you explain the mass exodus of minorities and poor people from areas? If this is not evidence of poor public policies, then what is it. I suppose CA is just so enticing everyone wants to move there, thereby driving up prices. Black people just had a town meeting and said, you know what, lets all just pack up and move somewhere else for no reason.

Dr. Sowell is not talking about rural areas. They by definition have plenty of open spaces. Jobs, however, congregate in urban areas. How can you justify exclusionary housing policies to the people who need to work within a days drive of their job. We are really not far away in places like San Fran or LA from the practical effect of forcing all the lower paid workers to live in the boonies and commute absurd distances to work simply to protect the views and the ambiance of the rich.

This really is just like the relationship between the nobles and their serfs in past times. Keep telling yourself it's about the environment if it helps you sleep at night.


Anthony
Dr. Sowell chose SF and their policies to illustrate what unbridled and unchecked liberal beliefs and policies will produce. SF provides countless examples of the liberal "vision" in all its glory (did you see the SF city council member on H & C who stated there was "no need for America to have a military").

Also, in an earlier post you attempted to use DC as an example to contradict Dr. Sowell....are you kidding me? Have you ever been to DC? I happen to live in MD at the moment, and DC is the most "partitioned" city I've ever seen. The residential areas are divided into 'rich whites' here and the 'poor minorities' over there. DC (another liberal bastion) just further illustrates Dr Sowell's position.

Knight Who Said NI
Uhhh ....I actually responded quite logically to Sowell’s column and your post, with my 12.30 post. It's not my fault you ignored it. My 12.49 post was just an attempt at humor, sorry I didn't make you laugh.

killer
Iwas speaking to all over and not just California. In additon if you read my other responses you will see that I took part of that back.

In California the trend has been to buy some, Zone some, and try to steal some (Half Moon Bay). In that case I hope the city goes bankrupt and disincorporates.

it's coming here
The same type of people are bringing their ruinous policies to Colorado. Our economy and culture have changed dramatically in the past 15 years. Now our liberal governor and his liberal legislature are making things worse. "Environmental" policies, lots of new taxes, California emissions standards that will leave us with vehicles that can't make it into the mountains, etc.

We made the mistake of moving into an HOA-controlled neighborhood. I have to have permission to make any changes to the outside of my house, even planting a bush or tree, including what type. And God forbid that the kids leave a bike on the lawn! Now they want to not allow "mother-in-law" apartments, even if they're contained within the existing house. The city voted to allow them to provide more affordable housing, but these snobs think that it will reduce their property values and bring in undesirables. The type of people who want that kind of control over their neighbor's property are not the type of people I want to live next to. Ugh.

We're moving as soon as the kids are out of school, another 3.5 years.

AT
I am glad you are still here. I live in central Pennsylvania but am originally from Philly. In the case of the East Coast cities you would not likely see the cause for open spaces in the heart of the city but in the affluent near suburbs. The center cities have been hyper-developed for many years (all are over 300 years old) but the surrounding areas have seen much of their development in the last 70-80 years. I think that a better example in Philly would be the outcry that would arise from the compassionate liberals on the Main Line if low-income or middle-income housing were proposed for open areas in Villanova or St. David's. THEN we would see a mad rush for "open space" legislation or "zero-growth" policies or rezoning. They can't be racists or elitists- they are liberals and are beyond reproach. Anthony, I just don't believe that you have toured these cities and their surrounding counties and have an informed opinion. BTW, insulting Dr. Sowell is very infantile. Dr. Sowell has great accomplishments to his credit- what are yours?

Icedog
writes, "did you see the SF city council member on H & C who stated there was "no need for America to have a military")."

Must be seeking higher office. This person will go far in today's democratic party.

Knight who said Ni
I was planning on witing something funny for you but I must leave to cut down the largest tree in my forest with....a herring! (Great name, one of my favorite movies.) BTW does anyone know what YLG stands for?

You own it, You do whatever


For many years now I have had the solution to the complaints by the environments, about developing land, and building homes.

If you own the land, I will fight to permit you to do with it as you will. Just own it, then do what you want, and don’t do what others want.

Did you notice that the same people who holler for an open border, are the same people who don't want any houses to be built?

Here’s a solution to raising money to take care of the roads and bridges, and the subway and light-rail systems in the transportation system.

Have every employer and the employee both pay a toll each day for every mile over 10, between home and work. That could be done much as Social Security is now paid by both the employer and the employee.

If you want to build 1,000 houses, create 1500 jobs within 10 miles. If you are going to build a large factory or office complex, build a corresponding number of living spaces, within 10 miles.

icedog
"have you ever been to DC? I happen to live in MD at the moment, and DC is the most "partitioned" city I've ever seen. The residential areas are divided into 'rich whites' here and the 'poor minorities' over there"

Yes I have been to Dc, and I'm not debating the divide between the "rich whites" and the "poor minorities". I'm saying there are very few government restrictions to stop retail developers from building for anyone, especially to maintain these so called “Open Spaces”. Actually from my understanding, DC has gone through a building boom over the past 10 years.

Anthony Thomas
Okay I'll respond to your 12:30 posts. I originally wasn't going to bother. It only reinforces my earlier posts.

Anthony wrote:
"Well if it's true that Sowell is primarily talking about California, then his entire column is irrelevant, and building restrictions aren't a national concern."

Dr. Sowell wrote:
"Unfortunately, this phenomenon is not peculiar to the San Francisco Bay Area and blacks are not the only group being forced out of upscale liberal communities in California. It is much the same story in Monterey and Los Angeles, for example."

Again RIF (reading is fundamental) Were does Dr. Sowell state this is a nation wide problem.

What he is doing is pointing out glaring inconsistencies in what liberals espouse and what there policies achieve. Also the inconsistency of decrying racist for every little thing that may negatively effect the black community (intentionally or not) except evidently when liberal policies are concerned.

If anything, that is the national concern.

As I stated before you are ignoring what Dr. Sowell wrote. Evidently all you see is bla, bla, when read about the truth of liberal regulations and their effects have on the poor and minority communities.

The Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons fly all over the country exposing possible racism in towns and cities all over the country. Yet they are quite about these obvious inequities were 10,000 have had to move out. Where are those and other black leaders allegiances really?

CVN65
"I think that a better example in Philly would be the outcry that would arise from the compassionate liberals on the Main Line if low-income or middle-income housing were proposed for open areas in Villanova or St. David's. THEN we would see a mad rush for "open space" legislation or "zero-growth" policies or rezoning"

Well you may be right about the Main Line and how they would or wouldn't react to that situation. But from my understanding, that situation hasn’t happened yet. So I don't think you could say what would happen based on an assumption

"Anthony, I just don't believe that you have toured these cities and their surrounding counties and have an informed opinion."

Actually I do. Since you too are from Philly, you should be very well aware of hyper-development that goes on in the outer county areas that you mention. I know about them, because I primarily worked in them while in college. Have you ever been to King of Prussia, Willow Grove, or Plymouth Meeting? The economies in these areas are much more vibrant than the economies that are actually in the city. This type of economic activity attracts people from the city These jobs also are a result of the hundreds of employers who have built their businesses in these areas WITHOUT RESTRICTION. So I doubt these areas would be resistant to building homes that might attract people from a different economic status, when they have already been successful at building jobs that attract people from a different economic status

"BTW, insulting Dr. Sowell is very infantile. Dr. Sowell has great accomplishments to his credit- what are yours?"

You know, Dr Sowell insults liberals every time he writes a column. Are we not allowed to insult him back?

The Liberal Left
Once again, we see who the real racists are.

Wake up, all you extra people

Why all this complaining about developments, and more and more houses, offices and factories?

What did you expect? When I was a kid, we had the population of 150,000,000 (and I wish it was still that), and now we have 300,000,000 and still growing.

Where should those people live and where should they work, and where shuld they play?

For those of you who can not figure it out by your selves, let me tell you that the sloppy 300,000,000 people of today, reuires at least twice as much of everything that the wonderful 150,000,000 required 70 years ago.

So shut up and build. And while you are at it, why not for a change, plan ahead for the next 100,000,000 that you will have in the next half century.

Remember, "Plan a HEAD, you need one."

Knight Who Said NI
Again RIF (reading is fundamental) Were does Dr. Sowell state this is a nation wide problem."

He doesn’t, but he relates this local problem to what he sees as a defect in liberal ideology as a whole. This is why I said it was an underhanded way of insulting liberals and why I asked if he was specifically referring to California Liberals, because there is no evidence to suggest that liberals as a whole care about “Open Spaces”. When did California become a microcosm for what all liberals believe?

“What he is doing is pointing out glaring inconsistencies in what liberals espouse and what there policies achieve”

Again, how is maintaining “Open Spaces” a liberal agenda, when by your own statement the problem is a California problem? You, Sowell, and many posters are taking a local problem, and blaming it on Liberals ideology as a whole, hence the title of my first post ” Is there something bad in this
world that liberals aren’t responsible for creating?



AT
This really was more about the affluent areas, not the working class bedroom communities. I have spent a lot of time in KofP and Plymouth Mtg; they are not wealthy enclaves and are not on the Main Line. I think that Dr. Sowell is pointing out that these communities, in enacting no-build laws, drive up property values, thus eliminating the "riff-raff", many of which are minorities and middle-class families. And, yes, there is a difference between Dr. Sowell raising points of argument against liberal reasoning and your insulting his intelligence and calling him senile. Do you not see a way to disagree with someone without insulting them? Dr. Sowell gives me hope for the future.

A Project for the Poor on Monterey Bay
Bull corn, Sowell! So blacks are leaving the Bay Area the tens of thousands. You blame environmentalists and liberals for the blacks excessive housing costs. My MIT educated son…who makes over a quarter million each year…refused a job transfer to San Francisco because of excessive living costs. So he effectively joined the exodus of blacks...but he's not damning Bay Area residents for preserving their quality of life.

I suspect that blacks are leaving the Bay Area largely because the region offers little but high-tech and professional jobs for which many blacks are not qualified [no fault is being assigned]. A St. Louis-type "Project" for the disadvantaged and poor on the shores of scenic Monterey Bay is not going to change that fact.


Letter to the Editor, 20 years ago
Los Angeles Times

Gasoline taxes: Toll roads

The old story that high gasoline taxes and a good transportation system will get the cars off the streets, is a myth.

Visit Paris (with the best subway system of any city, and $4 per gallon gasoline), or Rome (where gas is about $5 per gallon, but the subway system is not so great) and you will see that driving and parking in any city in the USA is a "Walk in the Park" by comparison.

People who work in a city, or who go there regularly on business, should not be allowed to drive there. Parking lots and parking garages should be for people who have business in that city, that day, and for tourists. (And by the way, why do we have a concentration of large office buildings in a downtown, anyway?)

In addition, only automobiles with the license plate of the state or country where a toll road exists, plus commercial vehicles, should be required to pay the toll.

That should apply to California, Pennsylvania, France, Italy, or any other. Only people who are responsible for that government, should have to pay the toll.

When they travel in states or countries without toll roads, they ride free, so there should be reciprocity!


Anthony Thomas
Are the only liberal policies that hurt minority and poor communities "open spaces"? Surely you realize there are others. "Open spaces" is but a glaring easily understandable example.

Anthony wrote:
"Is there something bad in this
world that liberals aren’t responsible for creating?"

Are you saying what has resulted in CA, the exodus of thousands of poor and minority people, is not the result of liberal environmentalism? You do not seem to argue that fact. So am I to assume you must think the dislocation of THOUSANDS do to these policies is not worthy of concern then?

What you choose to be outraged over seems very selective.

I can only wonder--
Yes, I am a hard core consevative. However, here in the North Texas region we have seen thousands of acres of farmland used up by new houses. These houses have to have a constant supply of potable water as do all occupied houses and businesses. Rainfall has been iffy in the past few years and the population is always increasing in this area. Farms as we all know produce various crops for feed and human consumption. So if the US population continues to increase rapidly, can all these people count on Potable water and safe food? Remember, there will always be more people but there will never be more land. A fourth generation farmer told me this last year. Good luck to us all.

San Francisco is mentioned a lot - - - -

This is a story from 40 years ago.

One day I was driving on a freeway in late afternoon, the lanes were filled to capacity, but since we were moving 20 miles per hour, I considered us lucky.

For those of you who haven't visited San Francisco, be assured that it is indeed a beautiful city, in a beautiful natural setting. In some parts of the city, block after block of white row-houses, rise and fall over the never-ending hills.

Many places there are few trees, so the result is sometimes almost bleak and monotonous, but usually more than a little exhilarating. Sometimes the rows of houses look like giant centipedes are eating San Francisco.

But whatever, it is rightfully world-famous for its beautiful city-scape, situated in the midst of phenomenal natural beauty. This was the scene that makes San Francisco famous, and that is why Tony Bennett “… left my heart in San Francisco …, etc.”

============

Just for fun, have you ever heard/seen that centipedes comment before, and do you think it "works?"

SVARA
This is a little off Dr. Sowells article but, are you suggesting Govt. should regulate birth rates or are you just talking strictly immigration. I assume you are not talking about eugenics.

jim
I spent a week there for a conference. While the city is beautiful, it was hard to appreciate it with the hotel workers shouting in my ear. It seems that they were on strike and thought I should go to another hotel (I had booked months before). I will grant them their wish and never stay at the Hilton in SF again.

Knight Who Said NI
"Are you saying what has resulted in CA, the exodus of thousands of poor and minority people, is not the result of liberal environmentalism"

It's probably the result of a variety of things.Gentrification and the decimation of city jobs because of globalization both contribute to this problem.

To the Knight Who Said NI--
No, I am not suggesting eugenics or govt. controlled birthrates. Immigration, people living longer, and birthrates are all part of the population increase nationwide.. We have seen our city increase from approx. forty thousand in 1970 to well over 100,000 now. And the nation is now over 300,000,000.
The people will eventually have decide if there is enough sustainable nourishment to support these massive increases. Will we eventually have to import massive amounts of food (hopefully safe) and ration water on a constant basis? Only time will tell...

Knight Who Said NI
Actually hundreds of thousands of people are leaving California due to liberal policies and it is not just the minorities and poor. In fact, what I would call the real middle class working people are what is leaving. CA has done everything they can do to drive industry and jobs out of State.

If it wasn't for the constant influx of thousands of illegals every day who are swamping Southern California the State's population would be dropping like a rock.

You can say goodbye to California in a few years. It will be a province of Mexico and have a third world economy.

Death of Democracy

The Alexandria Times, the last Republican voice in Alexandria Va was bought by a Democrat.

The Democrat City Council will institute limitations on build through "Infill Regulation" later this Spring without compensation for the new limitations.

The taxes they will institute through equalization of residential and commercial property tax added to the increase cost of everything will destroy a quarter of the 10,000 based on my exposure to their financial planning.

We have the new NVTA (Northern Virginia Transportation Tax) the privitization of a major highway to WDC and the gas tax which inevidably the Democratic Congress will win.

The schools are demanding an 8% increase with no merit to the increase and no incentive to do better.

The City is spending a lot of moeny on transportation and now Jim Webb wants everyone to pay a further subsidy to the overbloated, mismanaged, inefficient transportation authorities (anyone see a cap on their benefits?) Ah unions - just what Northern Virginia businesses need.

Democracy died in Alexandria Va on 1/1/08 when "economics" privitized the public square and taxation made government the only player in town. Oh, that's right, the biggest employers in town are the City of Alexandria government, City Schools and the Federal government.

Makes sense to grow government to create the jobs created by all these business that will shortly go out of business.


Anthony Thomas
Out here in rural King County in Washington State, the liberal Dems on the county council decided they didn't want to see any development in the rural part of the county _where they don't live_ so they created the Critical Areas Ordinance.

This rule limits the footprint of non-absorbent surfaces, such as roofs and driveways, to 10 percent of a property and if the land isn't already cleared, 50 - 65 percent of the land must be left untouched.

I'm thinkin' if I can't do anything with 65% of "my" property, they ought to be able to live without 65% of my assessed property taxes.

It just never ends with these greedy pukes.

The Dems./libs know nothing but tax and
spend wherever they are.

If Obama were a white guy with 2 terms in corrupt IL's legislature where he voted "preent" more than anything else and an unfinished senate term where he isn't even around enough to vote "present," the entire country would be laughing at him.

He, Hillary, Edwards, and Huckabee have histories of all tax and spend. The libs. are stuck in 19th C. socialism that they've played around with since FDR in the 1930s.

Reps/cons. have to come up with better ideas, and altho' he's not liked, Bush' ownership society is the better of the theories floating around. People who own their own homes produce fewer criminals and school failures, those who could own their own medical accounts would be less subordinate to their ins. co.'s, and people who own their own savings will be less behooven to Soc. Sec. and Medicare, which will otherwise take over everyone's lives eventually.

Precisely as G. K. Chesterton warned
I quote a previous poster: "And in the old country (Europe), one could not hunt the land, if one was a serf. Nor could you change the size or shape of your house..."

Exactly! In the 19th century, liberalism began to threaten the monopoly on power held by the landed nobility. With wealth acquired in trade, manufacturing or a professional education, they resented those whose wealth, status and power came from large agricultural estates and ancient titles.

About 1900 in England, liberalism split. One group, called "individualists," resented not just the power the landed nobility exercised through the State, but State power itself. They wanted less governmental intrusion for everyone. Today we call them libertarians. The other group H. G. Wells referred to as "State Liberals" and saw them as allies in his push for a socialist state. It didn't want to get rid of elite rule. It wanted to supplant the old elite a New Nobility--today's liberals.

In his 1922 Eugenics and Other Evils, G. K. Chesterton put it this way.

"In short, people decided that it was impossible to achieve any of the good of Socialism, but they comforted themselves by achieving all the bad. All that official discipline, about which the Socialists themselves were in doubt or at least on the defensive, was taken over bodily by the Capitalists. They have now added all the bureaucratic tyrannies of a Socialist state to the old plutocratic tyrannies of a Capitalist State. For the vital point is that it did not in the smallest degree diminish the inequalities of a Capitalist State. It simply destroyed such individual liberties as remained among its victims. It did not enable any man to build a better house; it only limited the houses he might live in--or how he might manage to live there; forbidding him to keep pigs or poultry or to sell beer or cider."

--Mike Perry

Housing
90% of SF population cannot buy in SF.
I like the odds for the 10% owners when economic forces and government interference rears ugly heads! Race need only be a footnote...trust us, white folks are just as gone!!!
The real story is Calif population???
Heading toward the 40-50 million...up against "open space" laws...somethings gotta give!
I rented in SF for 15 years; finally lucky enough to buy.....in the east bay!!!!!
San Francisco was my first choice...guess what the gods had to say about my first choice????

Green
My shirt is green. Does this make me a crazy, sick, helpless, liberal, environmental freak? HELP me!!!!

Just a quick question...
Why on Earth would anyone want to live in San Francisco? When the next big earthquake hits either the San Andreas or Hayward faults, everything between the two is going to fall down, especially if it's built on filled in areas of the bay.

The other reason I'd never want to live there (or anywhere near the ocean) is the Cascadia trench off the coast of Washington and Oregon. That's also about to go as a mega-thrust earthquake like the one off Indonesia in 2004. Guess what? San Francisco will get maybe 10 minutes warning at most before the tsunami waves hit. Anyone who has any brains will move out of the coastal areas.

In other words, the left coast liberals can have their ecotopia--until it blows up in their faces. Then lots of luck!

WAKE UP AMERICA
Earl Pitts here....Looks Like we don't have a choice that Californica is kicking out all the minorities with stoopid wacko environmental laws...looks like we don't have a choice that feminazi NEA Commies corner our kids with porno sex education...Looks like we don't have a choice that our farms are all being turned back to swamps with pinko government buyouts designd to keep prices high for politico donaters to the next elected Political hacks....WAKE UP AMERICA! TAKE BACK YOUR CHOICES....Vote for Earl Pitts American!

Limousine Liberal Impact
Limousine Liberals beat the class warfare and diversity drums because they know two things: (1) Upwardly mobile people crowd country clubs, and (2) socialistic taxing, spending and regulating governments undercut upward mobility.

So, if you think the liberal heart bleeds for the little guy, think again: Liberals only want to keep the little guy down, where they can own him and his vote. And that's true of every gig left-of-center.

Higene


Isn't the Carpe Diem attitude of SF creating a new incurable staff infection? And the homosexual population is spreading it quickly among its poulation? Seems to me life without responsibility is leading to another dangerous bug - all thanks to the thought that there "shouldn't" be consequences because there is no difference between one "lifestyle" and another.

I guess even SF can't dodge natural law.

Sounds Like Vancouver B.C. Canada
The 2010 Olympics have laid burden on the low, income, the poor and homeless.

Late last year the UN investigated claims, which found a despicable condition, caused the both Vancouver Mayor Sullivan and BC Premier Campbell.

You do not want to buy a property in Vancouver or BC. The house is worthless, the land is what counts. Gov. Arnold must have been infected by his years working in his movie industry there.

Campbell is the King of the real-estate ring there as insider and promoter. Home businesses and whatever in their path are taxed and messed up by inconvenient road work and obvious move of tenants where economic housing have served the low income and poor for decades since the war.

I guess it is the $500 million worth, of 14 acres, that has been on their mind, for the last 20 years, finally fell into their hands. Three years before they intend to build, they started to move tenants with a promise they could move back some 3 to 5 years later, impacting schools, business as they hick the property tax to balance the budget and pay for the 2010 Olympic investment. They need a Super Mitt to handle this. Just dreaming. Many still refuse to move because they have no guarantee, and are resisting civilly there cause. Visit their humble site:

http://www.my-calm.info

“An injustice anywhere is a threat everywhere.” A UN Motto

This is a favorite real-estate trick between (PPP) Public Private Partnerships and it does not matter the color of their skin, only the size or their bank account.


Property Taxes and No-Growth Cities
Remember that in California we have Prop 13 which effectively freezes your Property Tax Rate to when you first purchased your home. So once again all these no growth laws inflate home prices of those who already own homes without having to pay the extra property taxes associated. Also you have extremes such as Watsonville, CA - small agricultural community just north of Monterey and just south of San Jose. Average family income < 40K, but average starter home price > 600,000. How do these people ever afford a home? By living three families to one house.

easy solution
for Anthony Thomas and all those that support the open space initiatives:

if you want open space, pool your money and buy up all of the surrounding land and keep it undeveloped. now you are not inconveniencing anyone. it is your land now and you can do whatever you want, like keep it open space!

now you can tell everyone where to go and to get off your land!

Who Benefits From Overcrowding?
Our overall quality of life is in free-fall here in Southern California due to the effects of overcrowding. The simplistic supply and demand analogy does not hold since it is distorted by poor urban planning and lack of infrastructure. Businesses benefit since they are able to chronically underperform, enabled to survive by masses of people.

Infrastructure vs. Overcrowding
Wetlands vs. Landfills
This article has a gap in the argument.
The argument that the land that these benevolent folks would sell us is swampland near New Orleans. You are asking to place valuable infrastructure into more financially risky territory. Infrastructure must be maitained instead of being treated like New Orleans.
Greens are not the elitists you claim them to be.

Please keep in mind
... that the real estate prices referenced by Sowell, which are driven by artificially restricted supply, are not the reason why people are defaulting on mortgage loans.

I don't see any of that mistaken conflation here, but I do see it in every discussion of the sagging housing market and the increase in foreclosures.

The two phenomena are related, but they are not the same phenomenon. The people defaulting on their mortgages in California are the middle class homeowners and investors, who generally default on properties valued at under $800K. Mortgages around $350-450K, for about a 2800-square foot suburban house, are probably the most commonly defaulted on.

If the middle class could afford to buy in the older cities, and have good schools and convenient methods of moving kids around for activities, homebuyers would look there. The fact that they can't -- the supply restriction Sowell refers to -- is what is driving people to the exurban developments in inland California.

The people who are defaulting on mortgages here couldn't have qualified to spend over a $1m on a house, in the older cities, even with creative financing. So when we think about an "overvalued" housing market, it's not actually the $1.2m 800-square-foot bungalow in the Bay area that is overvalued. That's not the property that can't be resold for what the owner owes on it. It's the family-size house in central Riverside County -- which cost the same as a similar house in many of the suburbs of Atlanta, Chicago, Washington DC, or Miami.

Complete nonsense
Sowell is spewing complete nonsense. The build-able land scarcity in Coastal California, indeed the West Coast , is primarily because build-able land is very constricted to narrow areas between steep mountains and the water, or in narrow inland valleys. Then, in the period of 1945 through 1990 most of the build-able land near the San Francisco Bay was built out with extremely low density housing - suburbs. It is not a coincidence that housing prices started their really steep rise once the buildable land was used up.
Note I have not mentioned land restriction by environmentalists. The FACT is that the vast majority of the land put into park land is unbuildable - very steep hills or on ridge tops that are not affordable to build on.
As for the run-up in housing prices in the last decade, I have to assume Sowell has been brain dead for the last 10 years because this is a phenomenon that has affected the entire US. For example, my old house in Atlanta doubled in price in 8 years between 2000 and today. Atlanta has no land restrictions of any kind and builds new housing as fast as humanly possible. Considering that wages in Atlanta are much lower than here in the Bay Area, the housing costs are similar
The price increases NATIONWIDE in the last 10 years are due almost exclusively to 1) cheap money (extremely low interest rates), 2) "Innovative" lending tools - i.e., interest-only loans, sub-prime loans, 3) Disconnecting the original lender from owning the loan which thereby disconnects the original lender from any risk whatsoever, and 4) massive fraud brought about by #3. All these factors led to wild speculation on housing to the point some buyers were driving prices up to ridiculous levels simply for investment purposes.
Sowell is very obviously touting a biased opinion against land conservation, not telling any version of the truth based on known facts.


Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.