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Tuesday, January 01, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Santa Claus Politics
by Thomas Sowell
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Senator Hillary Clinton's Christmas commercial, showing various government programs as presents under a Christmas tree, was a classic example of calculated confusion in politics.

Anyone who believes that the government can give the country presents has fallen for the oldest political illusion of all -- the illusion of something for nothing.

Santa Claus may turn out to be the real front-runner in the primaries, judging by the way candidates are vying with one another to give away government goodies to the voters.

Santa Claus is bipartisan. The Bush administration is unveiling its plan to rescue people who gambled and lost in the housing markets when the bubble burst.

We now have a bipartisan tradition of the government stepping in to rescue people who engaged in risky behavior -- whether by locating in the known paths of hurricanes in Florida or in areas repeatedly hit by wildfires over the years in California or by doing things that increase the probability of catching AIDS.

Why not also rescue people who gambled away their life's savings in Las Vegas? That would at least be consistent.

Apparently the only people who are supposed to be responsible are the taxpayers -- and they are increasingly made responsible for other people's irresponsibility.

Military conscription is long gone. But taxpayers are still being conscripted to play Santa Claus.

If taking our money and wasting it -- or, rather, using it to buy votes -- was all the damage that politicians did to the economy, that would be Utopia compared to all the damage they actually do.

What's more, politicians can picture themselves as the solutions to our economic problems, when in fact they are the biggest economic problem of all.

To this day, there are people who believe that the market economy failed when the stock market crashed in 1929 and that the Great Depression of the 1930s that followed required government intervention.

In reality, the stock market crashed by almost exactly the same amount on almost the same day in 1987 -- and 20 years of prosperity, low inflation and low unemployment followed.

What was the difference?

Politicians -- first President Hoover and then President Roosevelt -- decided that they had to "do something" after the stock market crash of 1929.

In 1987, President Ronald Reagan decided to do nothing -- despite bitter criticisms in the media -- and the economy recovered on its own and kept on growing.

To people who think the government should "do something" -- and this includes most of the media -- it would never occur to them to compare the actual track record of what happens when the government does something and what happens when it lets the market adjust by itself.

Back in 1971, President Richard Nixon responded to widespread demands that he "do something" about rising prices by imposing wage and price controls that got him re-elected in a landslide. Moreover, the later damage to the economy was seldom blamed on those price controls.

Recently, Professor N. Gregory Mankiw of Harvard, a former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, noted that people in Congress and the White House were wondering what they should do about the current economic situation. His suggestion: "Absolutely nothing."

It is not just free market economists who think the government can do more harm than good when they intervene in the economy. It was none other than Karl Marx who referred to "crackbrained meddling by the authorities" that can "aggravate an existing crisis."

Ronald Reagan and Karl Marx did not have much in common, except that they had both studied economics.

After the departure of Senator Phil Gramm and House Majority Leader Dick Armey, Congress has been an economics-free zone. There is not one economist among the 535 members of Congress.

But, in an election year, that is not a political handicap. Santa Claus has won far more elections than any economist.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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No economist in Congress?
Ron Paul may be a medical doctor by vocation but he is by far the best economist the Congress has ever had. Armey and Gramm may have taught economics but they didn't back up their talk with a free-market voitng record. Ron Paul ia an economist of the Austrian School. That's the real free-market school of economics. Paul studied Mises, Rothbard, Sennholz, and the rest

Not this again...
Oh, no, not another Paultard commenting on something that has nothing to do with the doc-turd. You just made use of whatever angle you could find to introduce the doc-turd's name into the comment field. Shame on you LysanderSpooner.

RuyDiaz -- Audacity
Hmmmm.

"Paultard"

"doc-turd"

Am I to understand, RuyDiaz, that you have absolutely nothing of consequence to add to the discussion, but you felt compelled to say something nasty anyway?

And you have the unmitigated audacity to ask someone else to feel shame?

What was that about the "beam in thine own eye"?

I just love it
when people cling to delusions instead of recognizing cause and effect when it bites them in the butt (or in the pocketbook). The over-valuing of real estate finally made a correction. The risks taken by borrowers AND lenders were just that: RISKS. There are no guarantees in these ventures.

Bailouts lead to dependency and repetition of unwise behavior. Why prop up a downward-spiraling situation? Votes, looking 'compassionate', claiming the high moral ground (oops...they aren't supposed to believe in moral values), etc. If these folks spent half as much attention to real economics as they do to Keynes and company, we could well make progress. But alas, fantasies are more fun.


Paultards love the docturd
Hi Unca Alby;

The discussion is derailed anyway. This is not a one-time thing, but a recurrent tactic by the followers of Ron Paul. Since you are fond of biblical allegories, check the one about sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind.

the problem of space limitations
It is a shame that Sowell ran out of space in his column to describe the changes in banking practices that resulted from the 1929 crash which prevented a similar run on the banks in the '80s. And that no doubt explains why he had no room to explain why the fact that the government was far more involved in the economy in the '80s doesn't completely undermine his argument.

But then his argument makes it look like he thinks that stock market value is the only important factor in triggering recessions. And he is an economist so he couldn't actually be that simple minded.

Short Columns
Hi Lon;

Dr. Sowell has written about in his book Basic Economics. It is true that the Federal Reserve was incompetent in 1929. But it is also true that grandiose interventions then were counterproductive. (Say, the Smooth-Hawley tariff.) There were no grandiose interventions in 1987, and there should be none now.

Sam
Oh, geez. Now a hit piece on Huckabee. Is Sam a Romney supporter? I guess it is going to be this way for a while.

By the way, sorry for the, umm, flamboyant adjectives above. I should not have lost my temper that way.

Going to sleep now.

RuyDiaz
Following a column about the government's ability to exercise even the tiniest positive impact on our standard of living, comments about Ron Paul are certainly timely and valid.

Although I will not vote for him since I am a realist. Ideologically, I love the man's domestic agenda. Long live Ludwig Von Mises! At least his ideas. It is unfortunate that the man's foreign policy prescriptions are exactly wrong.

Hillary's Christmas card to us was perfect. That is exactly what the American public expects from its leaders. Al Gore will be the first secretary of the Department of Saving Us All From Certain Death Due To Our Own Selfish Desire To Advance Our Standard Of Living Agency.

RuyDiaz -- on Derailed Discussions
"The discussion is derailed anyway. This is not a one-time thing, but a recurrent tactic by the followers of Ron Paul."

Is it?

Tell you what. Let me suggest a new tactic.

Instead of jumping in the fray with a volley of insults that only make yourself sound like you're totally incoherent, try just ignoring it.

Maybe you're sick and tired of hearing from devotees of Ron Paul. Fine. Some of us are NOT sick and tired of it.

Now I'm not saying you're incoherent, far from it. I hope not anyway. But it would behoove you to not sound that way.



And I must point out that I rarely chastise a poster for using ad hominem, unless it's directed at me. Because you guys always have some lame excuse for it. But that is one thing I AM sick and tired of -- message boards so full of insults until they're devoid of all meaningful content. Only two messages in, and already it's starting.

So let's try to stay civil, shall we? Leave the little playground nicknames in the playground.

Gotta love Mankiw
It is unfortunate that some economists choose to follow the pied piper of the democratic party like Krugman, busily educating everyone that Santa Claus really does exist, he changed his name to Uncle Sam. Our government run education system is busy at it as well. It really is amazing how readily people will give up their liberty to some charlatan promising to set things right or save them from an alleged danger.

LysanderSpooner doesn't care who knows..
he/she is a fool...

Anyone remember "Dr." Howard Dean?

Has "Dr." Ron Paul shown himself to be any brighter?


We are not discussing...
..."Economics".We are discussing "Politics".Two different specialties.Clinton and the rest of the politicians are not running for "Economist Of The Year",They are running for political office.And they DO know their profession i.e.they know how to get elected and re-elected because their job depends on it.Look at how many years a person has been in office and you can judge their professionalism on that.

I don't think we should confuse the two professions.

juandos
Dr. Paul is worlds smarter than Dr. Dean and in different circumstances would be a very good choice for POTUS. The hole we have dug for ourselves with deficit spending and bad energy policy make his solutions almost immpossible to implement. We would all be a lot better off if the government had a lot less to do with our lives.

Revolution number 9.5
Once again Dr. Sowell does a brilliant column excoriating the politicians of both parties for (insert catchy name) economics. The Republicans, for the most part, have become just as bad as the Lamocrats in socialist giveaway programs. Not only that, but they have joined forces with the lames in creating incumbent protection rackets so that we are forced to accept one or the other in office with the incumbent winning 95% of the time.

What is really sad about this is that one of the candidates who has been active in the rackets is coming back from oblivion to near front runner status. This illustrates either that the average voter is stupid or that these polls are wrong.

In any case, I have about given up hope. The country is spiraling out of control into socialism and communism and is likely to continue until we are as bankrupt as the old Soviet Union. At that point, a revolution will occur and a lot of the self-serving commies will be slaughtered. Sadly, in almost all revolutions, the killing and chaos that results will be shown to be totally avoidable if the populace had wakened in time to prevent it.

Vic
My goodness, you got up grumpy and in a discouraging mood this morning. Well, i don't blame you. Sometimes when one wakes up and smells the coffee A E Housman's line comes to mind. "Some can gaze and not be sick. I could never learn the trick". The bad news is that your fears are all too accurate, the good news that the bankruptcy spiral is not inevitable. In any case, take a deep breath, count your blessings, think a moment of heroes like Tinsldr2 and USMC Lt, of canny ladies like Mrs. Paddy and Anne and YLG and give thanks. Its 2008. We have every chance of one heluvagood year.

Why I brought up Paul
Dr. Sowell said in the column that there no economists in Congress. My response is that Ron Paul ia an economist (and a political theorist), albeit a self-educated one. Here are his list of books. The Case for Gold (with Lew Lehrman), Freedom under Seige; Gold, Peace and Prosperity; Mises and Austrian Economics: A Personal View; and the forthcoming Pillars of Prosperity: Free Markets, Honest Money, Private Property.

Frankly,
I think the way poster Sam approaches his support for Ron Paul (see above) is a valid reason for lambasting the Kos-like vociferousness of so many of his supporters.

Vic and Savage99
Glad your here to start the New Year. I wish you a happy one.

An old quote but a good one is: "The American Republic will survive until the day the Congress discovers it can bribe the people with the people's money." -Alexis de Tocqueville

It kind of feels that's where we are. To me it feels like the Dems are going to establish the middle class as the point at which they can bribe 51% of voters to elect them; the other 49% of voters buy the votes. I've forgotten but isn't there something about a tyranny of the majority?

On the matter of economic systems, the advice of Dr. W Edwards Deming would apply. Markets go up and markets go down. If one doesn't understand the underlying mechanisms as to why that happens then one shouldn't tamper (his word) with them. To do so is to make them go down, or up, even more than they would otherwise. That is, if you don't know what you are doing the optimal policy is to do nothing.


what happened in 1987
Thomas Sowell writes: " In 1987, President Ronald Reagan decided to do nothing -- despite bitter criticisms in the media -- and the economy recovered on its own and kept on growing."

The Federal Reserve did a lot. After the crash of 1987, it expanded the money supply and reversed its policy of keeping interest rates high.

The Federal Reserve also did a lot after 9-11, to keep the economy from sliding into a deep recession. The economy was in real danger; the stock market was down 50% from its 2000 high, airlines and rental car companies were going bankrupt, people were afraid to fly overseas. The Federal Reserve drastically lowered interest rates to historically very low levels--money market funds were yielding little more than 1% annualized.

The role of the Federal Reserve in keeping the economy on a reasonably even keel is one that most Americans don't understand--and most libertarians don't accept. Too bad. It's basic Economics 101.

Getting back to Dr. Sowell's
article. Hooray! So succinct and true.

In Michigan, learning the hard way, Michigan's govenor has learned she can't tax our problems away.

The only other alternative is to cut government except for the basic functions it was meant to perform. It has taken a crisis for this message to come through. Perhaps the rest of the nation needs such a severe lesson in order to get the federal goverment out of our lives except for basic functions like security, roads etc.

loco
'Got news for you - that Canadian socialist pig is going to continue oppressing Michigan with hopes that most land-owners loose all their property to the government. That Candian pig deserves to have all wealth she confiscated from Michigan residents (especially elderly) returned to them, after which she should be returned to Canada.

Clinton’s “don’t ask” policy
Has Hillary lost Iowa?

LATIMES-As she races through Iowa in the days before next week’s caucuses, Hillary Clinton is taking few chances. She tells crowds that it’s their turn to “pick a president,’’ but over the last two days she has not invited them to ask her any questions.

Before the brief Christmas break, the New York senator had been setting aside time after campaign speeches to hear from the audience. Now when she’s done speaking, her theme songs blare from loudspeakers, preventing any kind of public Q&A.

READ MORE


http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/clintons-dont-ask- policy

savage99/Elco.Mike
I got up OK this morning but after drinking my normal pot of coffee and watching Fox News and their Rudy push it just was discouraging. Normally I would expect the tyranny of the majority to be thwarted by the written Constitution but since the Supreme Court sold out to FDR long ago, we haven’t had a Constitution.

I have come to the conclusion that the odds are that the 08 election will come down to a race between a socialist Republican RINO and Communist Lamocrat. At least that is where the media is pushing us, and most of the voters are too stupid to even see it.

SteveL
Its not that i categorically disagree with you. Its that i'm wary, being conscious of the prevalence of the power of sequence. Item 1 occurs. Item 2 occurs. Item 3 occurs. It is tempting to conclude that Item 1 had an influence on creating item 2, and item 2 on item 3. this may or may not be true, and the influence may or may not be positive. For many years FDR was given credit for curing the Depression. Then further analysis gave credit to the full employment of WWII (ignoring the deficit spending). Current thinking is that the destruction of our 1st world competition as its factories lay in carpet bommbed ruin enabled our economy to boom as everything we could produce was eagerly snapped up world wide, thus protecting us from the deficit spending chickens as they came home to roost. Europe got no such protection and has really never recovered from the WWI/WWII spending. My own belief is that the unprecedented increase in productivity as we lead the computer powered revolution has been our angel.

Vic -- How Long
do you intend to be grumpy?

OK, confession time. Last night instead of partying I composed, carefully, a note to Mike Duncan, Chair of the GOP National Committee, and told him that I was getting tired of holding my nose to vote for a name just because it had (r) beside it. I observed that one vote more or less wouldn't make or break the election but the key was how many of us were starting to feel that way. We want a limited government candidate and I personally am prepared to sit this election out rather than vote for another RINO.

Probably wont' do any good, except for making me feel better. Then I drank a glass of wine and watched that character jump a motorcycle over a football field. When he did it a second time, I felt better and figured I could soldier on.

I hope 08 is productive and prosperous for you.

---------------------------------------------

Vic writes: Tuesday, January, 01, 2008 10:13 AM
savage99/Elco.Mike
I got up OK this morning but after drinking my normal pot of coffee and watching Fox News and their Rudy push it just was discouraging. Normally I would expect the tyranny of the majority to be thwarted by the written Constitution but since the Supreme Court sold out to FDR long ago, we haven’t had a Constitution.

I have come to the conclusion that the odds are that the 08 election will come down to a race between a socialist Republican RINO and Communist Lamocrat. At least that is where the media is pushing us, and most of the voters are too stupid to even see it.

tru lib
are you suggesting that people accept responsibility for their own lives? That is heresy amongst the dims. As mother lilly always insists the populace is incapable of making smart choices or even commonsense choices without govt supervision. And even when we make poor choices the govt must be there not only to rescue us but also pay for any dmages we suffer or inconvenience we must endure. But it still remains a mystery as to why persons lost the incentive to take care of their own lives. What ever happen to the sheer joy one can attain from doing a job. I don't know if you ikea stores where you are but I think that is one of the appealing parts of the furniture they sell. You see it on the sales floor, go to the warehouse take the box off the shelf and take it home to assemble it into a useful piece of furniture, knowing you were involved even in a small way to it's final assemblage.

Sowell, it's time u put your convictions
w.... here your excellent columns have been.

I'd love to see you endorse the campaign of Ron Paul. If not Paul himself than his message of greatly reduced federal government and liberty and free markets. He says the same things you say and is the only presidential candidate I can remember since Reagan who actually believes what he says.

And, as I hope you know, Ron Paul, an obstetrician, has made in-depth study of economics the main hobby or area of study of his adult life.

Time to get off the sideline and get in the game. America is going down a spending and borrowing road that is simply unsustainable. We've got to get back to "first principles."

I hope you can do your part to help educate your mass of readers about the validity of Paul's message and fact this is not a radical, kooky or dangerous message.

Thanks.

Now would you serve as a Ron Paul VP?

Bill in Montgomery

elko.mike
Maybe I'll crank up the mower and leaf sweeper and clean the yard while knocking back some beers and I'll get "better".

Need to run the mower anyway to keep the battery up.

WildWest -- Small Change
... if I may.
When government fails in its chosen role to ensure that the populace makes smart choices it then has to bail people out precisely because it failed. People are very comfortable that way.

When do we hire a bureaucrat to tuck me in at night? I might catch a cold and have to go to the doctor if I get it wrong. They also need to come and set my thermostat, less I use too much heating oil and can't pay my bills. Oh, and I need someone from the government to follow me around and make sure I don't eat too many taco chips at the Mexican Restaurant. God I'm so incompetent. Help me, please government help me.



----------------------------------------------



wildwest writes: Tuesday, January, 01, 2008 11:06 AM
tru lib
As mother lilly always insists the populace is incapable of making smart choices or even commonsense choices without govt supervision. And even when we make poor choices the govt must be there not only to rescue us but also pay for any dmages we suffer or inconvenience we must endure.

Pres
It doesn't matter who we elect as Pres.Until we the people quit electing libs and rino's we will not be able to solve this countries problems.Be they foreign or domestic.

The knowledge of economics has value
but the understanding of human nature is of the utmost importance when forming various policies. Inherent and easy to access characteristics of all human beings are: the desire for power/supremacy over others, presumption of entitlement to what is wanted, and the preference for instant/easy gratification. When government policies serve to cultivate and fortify those attribute (as many liberal policies do) we can kiss society good bye if we really want to kiss such a hideous, ever-grabbing beast.


Sowell, it's time u put your convictions
.... where your excellent columns have been.

I'd love to see you endorse the campaign of Ron Paul. If not Paul himself, then his message of greatly-reduced federal government and liberty and free markets. In his campaign, he says the same things you say in your columns. To me, he is the only presidential candidate I can remember since Reagan who actually believes what he says.

And, as I'm sure you know, Ron Paul, an obstetrician, has made in-depth study of economics the main hobby or area of study of his adult life.

Time to get off the sideline and get in the game. America is going down a spending and borrowing road that is simply unsustainable. We've got to get back to "first principles."

I hope you choose to help educate your mass of readers about the validity of Paul's message and fact this is not a radical, kooky or dangerous message.

Thanks.

Now would you serve as a Ron Paul VP?!

Bill in Montgomery

Sowell's endorsements
In response to Bill in Montgomery I would like to say that I do not mind if Dr. Sowell does not endorse a particular candidate. Sowell is speaking truth and getting the word out just fine and I believe that is all he needs to do. It is up to us, all of Americans, to learn about these issues for ourselves and choose the right candidate.

Paul's Economic Wisdom
It has been put on display in numerous debates and it is sorely lacking. He blames everything on monetary policy, saying we're just printing money and spending it, and saying how we spend too much -- all under the name of "monetary policy." Even my economics principles students know the difference between fiscal policy and monetary policy, and they know that we have three different entities: the Treasury who prints the money, the Federal Reserve who issues the money, and the Congress who spends the money. We have a separation of spending powers in this country, which is precisely what keeps us from having hyperinflationary episodes that have affected many other countries (and would have hit Venezuela if Chavez had won the power to control their central bank). Paul acts as if the Fed prints up a bunch of money and gives it to Congress to go spend on stuff.

Loco
I can't really agree with your statement, "In Michigan, learning the hard way, Michigan's govenor has learned she can't tax our problems away." I don't think that arrogant witch has learned anything, instead only become more arrogant with the better part of Michigan voters (minus me, of course) voting her in YET AGAIN in the last election. I remember in the 70's, the saying was, "Will the last person to leave Michigan, please turn out the lights?" Seems nothing has been learned.

Economic collapse
Von Mises wrote about the problem with a credit crisis.

In short, there is no way out of it except a lot of misery.

Currently, the bailout, is not so much about "saving banks." The foreign central banks and the foreign governments with their sovereign wealth funds, joining the U.S. don't care if our banks fail or not. They just want Americans to keep borrowing and spending so their economies aren't hit.

You don't get 5 foreign Central Banks and several governments all trying to help the U.S. avoid some mild slow down. They are in panic mode and for good reason. If their attempts to "save" us fail, there economies will be hit very hard.

The solution to the credit (debt at personal, corp, and gov. levels) is, according to them, "more debt." Keep the spending going. But, as Von Mises pointed out, at some point, it all collapses and millions of people have their homes foreclosed on, jobs are lost, buying power is reduced, tax revenues plummet, government services are cut, etc.

The only thing we can do is "delay" this crisis. It probably will be delayed until the 78 million boomers stop paying payroll taxes when they retire and start, instead, drawing from the general fund all surplus was loaned to.

Subject of the Column
It's odd that almost none of the posts have anything to do with the subject of the column, which is the delusion of the concept that the government can actually "give" anything without taking away from the very receivers of those "gifts". Of course the concept is sold to the people with the delusion that all these things are affordable if the "rich" are forced to pay their fair share of taxes. Who the rich are is never defined but the popular conception of the rich is always someone else. We saw what this really meant when Clinton rased taxes on the "rich".

Say it again, Tom
It can never be said enough.

SteveL has a good point about the '87 crash:

"The Federal Reserve did a lot. After the crash of 1987, it expanded the money supply and reversed its policy of keeping interest rates high."

This is only "a lot" in the context of the Fed's nature, which is to do only a little, incrementally. But what it was -- its signal characteristic -- was doing the OPPOSITE of what the Fed did after the 1929 crash.

The Fed kept interest rates high, in the period 1930-32, when millions of out-of-work people were defaulting on their home loans and S&Ls were going under by the hundreds. "High" at that time was two points LOWER than the Fed's rate is today -- but only a third of the prevailing rate in 1987.

How did the rate get so high in the 1980s? The Fed raises rates to combat inflation. Anyone who was older than 12 by the end of the 70s remembers the dreadful "misery index" of that period: CPI inflation six times what it has averaged since.

Prime rates as high as 11-12% were common in the early '80s. Economic factors are largely relative: the Fed raised its rate slightly after 1929, to combat inflation -- and the rate was still under 4%. The Fed raised rates in the late-70s and early-80s to combat inflation -- rates at this time ran anywhere from 9-14%. And the Fed raised rates in 2006 to combat inflation -- this time to above 6%. That increase precipitated the current epidemic of real estate foreclosures. Recent rate reductions are not likely to affect the real estate market for some time: the confidence of buyers and lenders in a favorable rate environment has been lost.

There is no ideal, perfect, or even moral interest rate. There is only rate policy -- and the economic ideas behind it. It was brave of the Fed to seek to lubricate the economy after the '87 crash, instead of going in terror of inflation, as after the '29 crash. But the Fed is more likely to fear inflation.

Dr. Paul vs. Clinton Dyad Inc.
Ron Paul's major limitations are located in his manner. Unlike our Ronald Reagan, Ron Paul never made it his business to learn how to sell his vision over mass media. He comes off as a crank when he needs to be seen as genial and self confident. Also, as to foreign policy, there is nothing in the Constitution that a priori prevents General Petraeus from defeating IslamoFascists in a battle front on their own turf in a world wide ideological war. Dr. Paul has never read Marshall McCluhan, probably never heard of him, and it shows. By not knowing how to advance conservative politics, or the Constitution's civic religion, in the manner of Reagan, he handicaps OUR efforts to bring the vast majority into the truth of Von Mises, Hayek, Laffer, Reagan and Walt Disney which, at root, is the common sense of the economics and morality of the Founders. Perhaps, if Paul employs Clinton Dyad Inc's advertising agency, he could counteract the charm game of her FascisticoCommunitarianism, as evidenced in her Alinskinan Christmas card gifts, in particular, her promise to enter our homes and take our children for an education which will enable them to accept all the rest of her gifts. And, remember, Clinton Dyad Inc., socks away megabucks in Cayman Island banks of our own money, even as she and he uses our own money to make "change" for us in our lives when, as she reported lately, "thinks about what to do to us and for us 24 hours a day even when we aren't looking."

SemperVigilans and Fed rates
What are fed rates for? Debt. Lowering rates makes it easier to borrow.

Now you see what Von Mises sad about credit crisis being what we have.

Each time spending dropped off, we increased the means to spend more with "borrowing." Personal debt, corporate debt, and government debt all were given "incentives" with lower rates.

Now, we have Americans paying out so much interest and tax to pay interest on government debt, and higher prices to pay the interest corporations pass on to consumers, that we are imploding and the current "solution" for this credit issue? More debt.

Credit card debt is now over $900 billion and Americans are making minimum payments so they can pay their car loan interest, home equity interest, payday loan interest, pay roll taxes (surplus loaned to general fund that in part pays interest on debt) and keep spending enough on basic needs like getting enough fuel to drive to work.

Only those who have saved in the past and invested and have ample income keeping up with inflation, are staying ahead of what is happening. This is causing a two class society. Those who saved and invested are rising and those who didn't are sinking deeper every day and losing buying power every day.

I may take a few years yet, but there is no way to "spend" your way out of this with more debt and higher and higher payments for interest at any rate above zero. Get rates low enough to seem to help, and the foreigners that lend us money will stop lending to us and lend to other nations that pay a higher interest rate.

The Excellent Dr. Sowell...
What I love about Dr. Sowell is that he understands the importance of the barest fundamental principles. People should be allowed to suffer (or enjoy) the consequences of their own actions. That should be fundamental and government policy should be based on that principal.

There is almost no more important concept related to government than economics 101, as Dr. Sowell has proven again and again. There is NO such thing as a free lunch. EVERYTHING comes at a price (Hillary supporters take note). These are concepts that liberals never have understood and never will understand.

Horizonscanner:
Excellent comment and observations.

A lesson from China
As much as I dislike the totalitarian government of China (work or we shoot you, protest and we shoot you, criticize an official and we shoot you), there is a lesson to be learned from the people.

Even at $1 and $2 an hour jobs, many are saving up to 40%. On just one day, last year 350,000 new brokerage accounts were opened by Chinese.

They will, in many cases, soon make more from investments than from wages. How can they save at $1 an hour. For one thing, their buying power is about 4 or 5 times ours so that $1 is $5 and the $2 (GM pays that) is $10 and they lived so long on 29 cents an hour (a billion still do) that they can save 40% and still be living better.

The lesson is that saving, not spending leads to a better life in the long run. Our government begs and almost demands we spend more.

Recently Pres. Bush told Chinese leaders they need to encourage less saving and more spending so we sell more things to China (while we also buy more). I couldn't believe a President could be that ignorant of basic economics but then, that is what almost all in government are saying to us every day. Borrow more so you can spend more to keep the economy going.

You live in a nation that can't save. If it does, it goes into a recession because we have lived on debt so long (on average) that any reduction of debt causes less spending and a recession. Thus, there is no way out of this without a long recession during which people save and come out the other end spending again, but within their means.

What was the difference?
Finally, Sowell says something true, he admits he doesn't know what happened.

Let's take a little history tour shall we?

1.) 30 percent unemployment. Was their 30 percent unemployment after 1987? Ah no. History also will instruct that most of FDR's programs were not implement until the end of 1930s and early 1940s. Longer after "doing nothing" was in place.

2.) Elderly in poverty. Until the enactment of Social security, the elderly were poor and without health care? Duh? How many people want to see homeless elderly? Fact is that today the elderly only slightly represent a larger portion of the poor population than in the 1930s.

3.) Changing workforce. By giving GIs the GI bill to get an education, the workforce was able to catch up to the economy. Businesses have never taken it upon themselves to educate their own. They rely on the government to do this. In 1987 college education was the norm and readjusting workers was a matter of just shifting occupations and not under-education.

The list of differences between the 1929 and 1987 are so vast its laughable that Sowell even asks the question. Laughable and telling that Sowell knows not one wit about the economy, something I can finally agree with. What's the difference indeed.

Econ'ic Facts & Fallacies = new TS book
Check it out! New book from Thomas Sowell. Title is "Economic Facts and Fallacies".




Vic - I'm right there with ya
It is too late to turn things around. It's a runaway gravy train.

My hope is to keep my head down, live as independently as possible, homeschool kids, then die out in the woods somewhere.

Happy New Year!

Economic illiteracy
As Mr. Sowell points out, there are no economists in the senate or the house. (I miss Phil Gramm and Dick Armey too!) That fact helps to explain a lot of the fiscal irresponsibility we have all seen lately.

I also have wondered aloud if one of the basic differences between liberals and conservatives is their knowledge of economics. Forgive me for saying so, but liberal don't get it; perhaps because they have been indoctrinated into Marxist ideology. Think about it... Don't libs constantly bemoan income disparity and thus attempt to redistribute income as per Marxism? Libs don't understand how free market capitalism is THE BEST METHOD to promote economic prosperity for the greatest number of people. Marxism helps some but causes much more suffering and economic deprivation.

Hugo Chavez is using the public schools in Venezuela to promote socialism which will likely create a whole new generation of ignorant Marxists. Is the same being done here or is it that our schools teachers just don't teach economics well? Points to ponder....

Steve
If you do some reading on the Prussian style of public education, you'll that it is quite deliberate.

You may have heard of John Taylor Gatto, a former New York public school teacher. He has some mighty appalling things to say about the school system. http://www.johntaylorgatto.com

His arguments make even more stark, the reasons why Lilly's views are all the more reprehensible.

Steve - you read my mind!
I think what we've been witnessing is the inevitable outcome of government schooling, as opposed to a classical liberal arts eductaion. Sure, there are still requirements for the most basic of economics in high school, but it's boring and many of the teachers don't even understand what they are talking about. What is noticeably absent from most public school curricula is the teaching of capitalism. the word gets passing mention in history classes, but that's about it.

After 13 years as a math teacher in both private and public schools, I finally noticed it. As I recall, a *liberal* education was supposed to be the education of a free man.

Our public schools have been promoting the education of a slave, the way I see it. Think about what all children are told as dogma: "you need to make good grades, so you can go to college and get a good job" - setting them up to be paycheck dependent, which means withholding from the gov. No one is taught to be his own man or her own woman. NO! You're getting educated so you can get a JOB!

Of course, isn't the factory model exactly what Dewey based his public school model on?

I accept, I will run, I shall be elected


Based on what I have read here, and elsewhere, I have come to the conclusion that none of the candidates, on either side of the political chasm, is qualified or capable of running this country.

However, I have heard a few good comments from several of them, and stupid comments from others, and since I have been able to determine which is which, I suggest that I be elected.

I will implement the good and destroy the bad, and we shall live happily ever after.

Now who else has offered a platform that makes so much sense?

Good turnaround
Thread makes a nice comeback from sniping to intriguing. Thanks and kudos to dagny, LobaAzul, Steve, Old Man, CW, HorizonScanner, SemperVigilans, Jerry, right is its own defense, Bill in Mongomery, DannyBoy, oldsocialworker,elko.mike, Vic, WildWest, Savage99, SteveL, TruLib, Nam65-66, navymom, Hitchhiker for taking the high road and stimulating thought.

Santa Claus
Although I usually agree with Dr. Sowell on many of his positions, I find his continued comments on hurricanes show a blatant ignorance on the subjects. First off, Florida residents are not the only ones in jeopardy from hurricanes. Does Dr. Sowell propose that every resident in Florida, the other Gulf states and the entire East Coast relocate to Iowa? And then, what about tornados? Somebody has to live on the coasts to provide the services Yankees want when they come to warm weather in the winter. Also, there are no "known hurricane paths." I have lived in South Florida for nearly 16 years and had storms pass around and over my area from time to time. At least one even came from the Southwest. Some were close enough to do damage, others weren't. For the last two years there have been no hurricanes nearby. If nobody is supposed to live in these areas, then I guess Southern Californians need to move because of fires and mudslides, Midwesterners need to find a place that is tornado free, and those living along the New Madrid fault are just asking for it. If natural disasters hit those places, yes, I expect our local, state, and even national governments to step forward and provide some kind of relief (in that order). That is much different from the giveaway programs that are implied in H.C.'s Christmas campaign ad.

Lunar
I think it could be argued that disaster assistance at some level is a suitable govt. function, similar to firefighting or even policing. (I would argue it should be done at as close to the local level as possible) Having said that, there seems little reason to substitute for commercial insurance markets in the form of disaster aid, "bail outs", or governmental insurance programs. Well known are the impacts of this perversion of the risk-reward tradeoff on decision making. It is my impression that, at this time, the only insurance available in many areas where "disasters" are likely such as the California canyons, coastal islands, flood plains, etc. is underwritten by the Feds. A nice summary of the impact is available at

http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb107/hb107-40.pdf

The more people we can get off the govt. dole the better, even if it is us.

Santa Claus politics
When it comes to playing Santa Claus, have you ever seen a more pathetic bunch so eager to give away what isn't theirs than dimocrats - the real party of plutocrats.

Edwards brags he came up from a meager background. But how did he do it? By using suing, as a legal pirate, the pediatics profession of North Carolina out of business using junk, phony science. Even North Carolina, when it learned what he really was, got sick of him as their Senate representative.

To pay for all their goodies, dims always propose stealing more in the form of higher taxes, and they're always the first to carefully shield and hide their own income and stash from those same taxes.

Consider how they treat property they can't steal - they regulate it into being valueless with no thought of just compenstion for the value of its use they've stole. And then when the public wants to use the vast federal holdings of public lands, they act like they have first claim on it themselves.

The bottom line that people of this country must understand about dimocrats is that they are first, last and always, thieves and bandits. Politics and law is simply their guns, crowbars and lockpicks.

You Don't Need an Economist in Govt
What you need in government are people with enough sense to recognize that you shouldn't spend money you don't have. With limited resources you need to prioritize what you spend money on, which means some of the really nice things you'd like to have, you'll have to do without.

Given that, historically, every $1 of tax increase was followed by about $1.50 in new spending, and that more than half of our congress-critters have demonstrated the inability to even balance their own personal checkbooks, it should be pretty obvious why we're in the mess we're in.

You don't need to be an economist to balance your checkbook. You just need to have sense enough to know that you can't keep spending money just because you still have checks left.

unca alby
as long as we have those in govt who think the treasury is their personal piggy bank uncontrolled spending will continue unabated. The repubs need to pledge that they will end the practice of pork spending. Plus why does govt spending have to increase by huge amounts every year. The president wanted a 7% increase across the board the dims wanted 11%. Working people have to live within a budget. Many state govts are mandated by law to balance their budget. Yet the fed govt acts with no restraint. The dims promised to put congress in order and end all the congressional corruption. Under reid and pelosi things have gotten worse. Now we enter a presidential election year and congress will do little if nothing and certainly will not clean up the mess they continue to enable

Hannah Montana Morality
I have heard a shocking number of people say that in the recent case where a mother instructed her daughter to commit fraud to obtain $2500 worth of Hannah Montana tickets, the child should be allowed to keep the proceeds of fraud because *a child should not suffer because her mother is a crook.*

In my opinion this is the underlying fallacy that has created all the BailOut Policies: that regardless of how stupid their parents are (or how mendacious or criminal, come to that), TheChildren must not suffer so the parents must be bailed out. In fact, this is the reason that the same children who were starving in Africa when I was five years old are still starving -- because regardless of the evil and stupidity of the parents, TheChildren must survive.

If we could once stand back and allow actions to have consequences, so that people learned from thier mistakes and gambles and, incidentally, that 99% of us are NOT holding a winning ticket, these problems would be, as they used to be, self-correcting.

A must read
A must read for anyone who values freedom.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basEss2a.html


wildwest, thumbs up!
Why doesn't someone propose a federal budget that is 30% lower than last years? Or to be reasonable, 15% next year and each year after that until we are actually within a proper spending range for what government is supposed to do, not what they think they can get away with.

Lunar
Not to put words in Dr. Sowell's mouth, but I don't believe he is suggesting that nobody live in south Florida, only that the cost of homeownmer's insurance should be commensurate with the risks involved in living there.

It is absurd to think that the taxpayers should have to foot the bill for other people's risky behavior. Just because you have been lucky enough to not have been hit does not change the fact that there is a substantial risk of hurricanes in S. Fla., and it is ridiculous to expect some people to have to pay for the risky behavior of others.

Raygun did nothing
You mean he did nothing but double the national debt in less than 8 years. We added 1 trillion to the national debt to bail out the savings and loans. He fled Lebanon when the marines base was attacked. He traded weapons for hostages with the Iranians. He had a private war in El Salvador funded by the weapons for hostages in Iran. Raygun wasn't a conservative as he always spent more than he raised in taxes. Don't try to blame it on Congress as he had a veto pen that he could have used, but chose not to.
He sucked as an actor and was worse as a president.

redeyerex
WAAAAAAA,WAAAAAAA,WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAA


Theres not a LIB today that could have carried REAGANS toe nail much less his JOCK STRAP.

Hillary Claus Politics
Yes, it's easy to give away the store when you're not the owner. Hillary's "Christmas" ad is unaplogetically shameful but accurate of her socialist tendancies. Very consistent with her idea of taxing higher than expected profits of oil companies (which, by the way was conspicuously silent about gov't action when they suffer losses)as well as her idea of giving $5,000 to every baby born in the U.S. These are Hillary's true colors. Hillary's over-ambition for power at any expense (and at anyone's expense) should indicate to We the People that this woman is capable of doing irreparable damage to Our Great Nation.

Eagle
You know why she brought up giving $5,000 per child dont you. I can name that tune in one word. ABORTIONS , LIBS LOVE ABORTION.

They can scream about troop deaths but back KILLING BABIES how Hyproctritical are THEY(DEMS_)

Hillary Claus Politics
Chuck:

I hear ya. I was recently pondering how many great human beings that have been denied life and the potential great contibutions to humanity that have been summarily denied under the ruse of "choice." This may be the greatest tragedy to the human family history has known.

And on your point that liberals decry the deaths of troops but not the unborn you are right on target. Amen, m' friend.

Chuck shows his intelligence
Chuck nice response to the discussion. You are confused about Raygun and jockstraps. He never played sports but was once an announcer of football in Iowa. Did you know he was one of the McCarthy era folks who outted his fellow actors as communists? Did you know that most of his stories were based not on facts, but rather on movie scripts. Didn't you wonder how Ronnie could be in his seventies and yet had no gray hair. You don't suppose he dyed his hair do you? I wonder if a hollywood stylist did it and it costs more than $400. Raygun always talked a fiscal conservative game, but never actually submitted a balanced budget. Chuck go home and do some homework before you show up to debate.

Eagle don't forget
Eagle don't forget that most of the abortions went to poor single women. If those children were born 1/3 of them would have ended up in prison. Are you talking about those great contributors to society? Since you are opposed to abortion I'm assuming that you also oppose capital punishment? If not why not? The fact that none of our current batch of chicken hawk leaders served their country when called upon is what makes the troop loses tragic. We had a chance to elect a true purple heart recipient, but he was a liberal so he didn't qualify right? Oh well a cheerleader, party boy, frat house alcoholic was available so lets reelect him.

Putting Redeyerex in his place
Redeyerex:

Your vitriol and hatred clouds your judgment.

First, You do not know that 1/3 of aborted humans would have gone to prison. You do not know that most abortions were committed by poor single women. You spout this nonsense as if it is unassailable fact when it's nothing more than your liberal indoctrinated assumptions -- showing your inability to think for yourself. By the way, many great contibutors to humanity did time -- Martin Luther King, Jr. comes to mind first. In addition, if it were not so tragic, your failure to address the potential for the other 2/3 (assuming for the moment that your out-of-thin-air figures are even remotely close to being accurate) aborted human beings shows you do not care a hoot about humanity but only your patently hypocritical and dark views.

Second, in addition to opposing abortion I do indeed oppose capital punishment. I know that's a let down for you but deal with it and lose your prejudices and hatred.

The rest of your ignorant, adolescent liberal rant will not be dignified with response other than to say that your accusation that Chuck shows his intelligence speaks volumes to your lack thereof better than any response can do by itself. Lay off the kool aid, m' friend and open your mind and better yet open your heart, lest your hypocrisy consumes you.

LysanderSpooner predictably polemicizes
.... about the CongressCritter Paul's economics "expertise."

The no doubt about it left-wing-fringe dwelling socialist psychopathology projecting, (Like every other predictably projectile polemicizing Paulista) LysanderSpooner aught first best check out said CongressCritter Pauls "economics" track record than trot out the stock Mises School (of which I am an eager adherent) bibliography.

Whether compared with either of Messrs Gramm and Armey - particularly Mr Gramm - or standing alone, Congressional Pork States contender, CongressCritter Paul, is an Economics illiterate.

That much is Black and White.

Redeyerex writes:
"The fact that none of our current batch of chicken hawk leaders served their country when called upon is what makes the troop loses tragic."

Yes, "chicken hawk leaders" like John McCain, who suffered in a Hanoi prison, while Jane Fonda and the other leftist traitors openly supported his tormentors. Oh and by the way, McCain has two sons in the Amred Forces, at least one of whom serves in Iraq.


abortion and capital punishment
Redeyerex equates two things that are not the same, demanding that those who have reservations about widespread abortion must also oppose capital punishment "to be consistent" in the liberal mush-brained way. Hypocritic Libs don't demand consistency of themselves. If they're so big on the "sanctity of life" for murderers then why not for babies?

Let's see. On the one hand we have totally innocent lives who have committed no crime and are condemned to death by a judge and jury of one, the mother. On the other hand, we have perpetrators of the most heinous crimes, premeditated murder, sometimes involving torture and/or multiple victims who have received years, decades of due process before being sentenced to a more merciful death than they gave their victims.

In the looking-glass Orwellian world of liberals, it is wrong to disapprove of the death of innocents by opposing abortion but it is right to hold candlelight vigils for proven criminals who upon escaping capital punishment go on to kill more innocents than have ever been executed. That's right, lack of capital punishment results in more innocent deaths than capital punishment except lefties never wear those deaths they've enabled - other inmates, citizens after prison escapes or parole.

I am not an extremist on either the abortion or capital punishment issue. As a true conservative, I believe we should be encouraging individual responsibility, concentrating on preventing the need for abortion, which should be rare, not common. As far as capital punishment is concerned, it should be reserved for the worst crimes with solid evidence and due process.

The liberal attitude of treating abortion as less consequential than a dental extraction (required so as not to discourage the all-important sexual licentiousness) while going to bat for the incorrigible and dangerous is morally imbecilic and is degrading our society.

Putting Redeyerex in his place
Eagle I haven't seen any links in any of your statements to back up your facts and figures that you spew on this site. Please cut the preaching and stick the facts at hand. If you are against abortion its simple don't get one. Otherwise leave to make that decision to the mother. If you are a conservative like you claim then don't try to put your morality on everyone else. Here are the facts about abortion:
“A report released Tuesday by the Alan Guttmacher Institute finds that the rate of abortions among low-income women in the US increased 25%, despite an overall 11% decrease among women of childbearing age. The study, which sampled and surveyed over 10,000 women seeking abortions nationwide, also reported higher rates for women who were African-American or Latino, in their twenties, unmarried, and “economically disadvantaged” (making less than twice the federal poverty level).” Here is the link
http://feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=7049

With prison populations exploding at over 2 million and most of that population being men of color abortions have reduced the crime rate and prison populations. Do the math, abortion was made legal in 72 and 20 years later the crime rates go down. Now Eagle no more statistics without URL's to back them up. Put up or shut up. It's not me whose vision is clouded. It's too bad that the truth has a liberal slant, but I call them as I see them.

Chicken Hawk defenders

Thrasybulus: Did you vote for G W Bush or John Kerry? One of them got the Purple Heart the other got a pass. Unless you live in AZ John McCain is nothing but 1 senator out of 100. He is not the president or VP who are the chicken hawks that I'm referring to in the previous post.

Kindal responds with jibberish
kindel: How I view abortion has nothing to do with whether I would impose my view on someone else by law. The mother of the child is the person responsible to make that decision not you.
On the other hand killing done in my name by the state is a different matter. Ever wonder why rich folks never get the death penalty?

Redeyerex: Anger, Ignorance & Immorality
Redeyerex:

Your stats do nothing to bolster your "argument," a term which I use very loosely in your case. Under your view, abortion is a good thing because it weeds out "undesirables" and the "poor". You and Adolf Hitler are right on the same page in your dark Darwinian approach of imposing your views on others.

How ironic of you to accuse me of the same when in fact it is you and those of your dark and immoral, liberal ilk who impose your views, wants and desires for irresponsibility on others at any cost, even at the cost of the utterly and completley defenseless unborn. And you liberal hypocrits champion yourselves as defenders of the defenseless -- your immoral hypocrisy makes me sick!

Your argument that crime rates go down because abortion has gone up is absurd on its face. Under this line of thinking, a certain percentage of poor and/or those with criminal backgrounds should be summarily executed. You and Hitler must have been separated at birth. It is not a choice; it is a human being. If you do not want to have a child, show some self-control and abstain from intercourse. It's that simple. If you cannot exercise self-control, you have a problem, but do not kill others because you can neither accept responibility nor exercisie self control. Wise up and stop perpetuating a holocaust of the most defenseless of our brothers and sisters.

Redeyerex: Anger, Ignorance & Immorality
And another thing redeyerex:

My pro-life view opposing abortion is quite consistent with my opposition to capital punishment, a ppoint I made earlier which you now have abandoned just like so many unborn of my brothers and siters that you and those of your ilk have done.

You, being pro-abortion (I'll bet my bottom dollar), oppose the capital punishment. So you have no problem killing the innocent and defenseless but have a big problem killing the dangerous and guilty murderous among us. The foregoing speaks volumes of you and those of your ilk -- indeed, it says it all.

Eagle how do you figure
Eagle:
I give you stats on who is getting abortions. You come back with insinuations and comparisons to Hitler. Just who do think are in prisons? If black and hispanic single mothers didn't have abortions it only makes sense that some of these children would end up in prison. If you can refute those facts then do it, but spewing your opinions as though you are holier than thou doesn't cut it. What is absurd is your assumption that I'm for abortions. Like I said if you don't like abortions don't get one. But that isn't enough for you. You want government to enforce your morality through the rule of law. But I thought you were a conservative and didn't want the government to rule your life.
Hypocrisy runs deep in your argument. No facts, no figures simply more brown ooze running from your keyboard. Pathetic

Redeyerex: Anger, Ignorance & Immorality
You still don't get it. Your adolescent point that if "I don't like abortions, then don't get one," misunderstands the most basic nature of the issue. I advocate against abortions because those who dislike them the most are those who can do nothing prevent them -- namely the unborn murdered victim. From your perspective, it would follow logically to say that if you don't like murder, then don't murder another person . . . if you don't like rape, then don't rape another person . . . if you don't like robbery, then don't steal from another person.

The following are your words:

"If black and hispanic single mothers didn't have abortions it only makes sense that some of these children would end up in prison."

You prejudice is glaring. Your ignorance is simply sad. And your immorality shines shamefully. I suppose white people do not go to prison, only blacks and hispanics. You know better.

Contrary to your thinly veiled spin, I am not for government imposing morality -- to some extent it must - what do you think criminal statutes do? What do you think statutes outlawing murder do? What you want is freedom to murder. It's that simple. Even the outlandish and convoluted Roe v. Wade recognizes the state's interest in protecting the unborn. As a liberal, you advocate for every government handout imaginable -- a communist, socialist nanny state a la Marx, except when it conflicts with your ability to absolve yourself from self-control and responsibility. Grow up.

The rest of your adolescent liberal rant will not be dignified with further response.

Red Eyed Bung Hole
Eagle: Kudos to you, I couldn't state the facts any better. Ignore the ignorant Troll, he is similar to the Wizard in "Wizard of OZ". Happy New Years to All and to Red Eyes-Good Night Chuck Out....

Red Eyed Kerry Sycophant
Swift Boat John is a coward, traitor and fraud. He lies as easily as he breaths, similar to the Hildebeast. Go troll at the KOS or moveon.ignored. Your rants are unimpressive and riddled with foolish Dem talking points. Chuck out.....

I'm getting lost
This post has gone in so many directions I'll just stick to a couple. Originally it was about candidates playing Santa. I don't want to elect Santa. I don't want to elect someone with "exciting new ideas". I want them to do as little as possible and leave us, for the most part, alone. Just protect the country, keep the roads in shape, deliver the mail and let us do the rest.

As far as abortion, if we had not disgarded 50 mil. lives which tanslate into, among many other possibilities, potential inputs to social security we would not be in the mess we're in.

Re: redeyerex (01/03) 10:45 a.m.
Redeyerex: “With prison populations exploding at over 2 million and most of that population being men of color abortions have reduced the crime rate and prison populations. Do the math, abortion was made legal in 72 and 20 years later the crime rates go down.”

Wow – I cannot even imagine the liberal outcry if a conservative were to say such a thing. I wonder if you would have the guts to say publicly (and not anonymously) that, as you suggest here, abortion is actually a good thing because it’s used disproportionately by minorities and therefore keeps the prison population down.

The fact is you’re probably right. But the conservative answer to the tragically lopsided prison population would be to discourage behavior that leads to unwanted pregnancies as well as the nonchalant attitude towards illegitimate children. Such children are too often born to mothers who are too young and/or too impoverished to care for them on their own. The conservative message is to curtail sex and the creation of children until marriage. Also, to treat marriage as a serious commitment that creates a stable environment for raising children. These children will then be much more likely to lead happy, productive, crime-free lives, and they and all of society will benefit.

But this message has been demonized by the libs who consider it moralistic. They destroy anyone who dares to suggest that the culture of behavior among minorities is self-destructive. As proof, I repeat my challenge to you to make your comment in a public setting where minorities are present. It’ll never happen.

So, thanks to the libs the tragedy for many minorities, which could so easily be solved, will continue. But not to worry, they can always kill their young.

Numbers are racist?
CW:
Statistics have no race, they are simply numbers. If being born to a single mother was so easily solved it would been done long ago. The fact that it’s happening all over the world to every race shows that it’s not unique to just minorities in the U.S... Conservatives try to blame the government for this rise, but there are plenty of Conservatives getting divorces and not being father’s to their children. Maybe after you so easily solve the single mother problem you can fix that divorce problem too.
You are free to try to convince women to not get abortions by changing their hearts one at a time. You are free to try to change society norms by using the arena of ideas. Where we differ is if you get to use the force of government in enforce your views.



redeyerex:
Rex: “Statistics have no race, they are simply numbers.”

Here is your statement from 10:45 a.m. “With prison populations exploding at over 2 million and most of that population being men of color abortions have reduced the crime rate and prison populations.” You seemed to think that statistics and race were connected when you made that statement.

Rex: ”The fact that it’s happening all over the world to every race shows that it’s not unique to just minorities in the U.S...”

I don’t have time to research birth rates around the world, but I know that out-of-wedlock births have tragically increased significantly for all races in the U.S. (thanks, again, to the libs). For the black community especially, however, it has become the norm rather than the exception, and when it is combined with their high levels of poverty it spells disaster, as evidenced your own reflections on how they can help keep crime down.

Rex: “Conservatives try to blame the government for this rise,”

I don’t blame the government per se, I blame liberals like you.

Rex: “Maybe after you so easily solve the single mother problem you can fix that divorce problem too.”

We might be able to solve the problem if it weren’t for the libs insisting that to criticize the behavior of minorities makes you a racist. How can we address the problem when we’re not allowed to talk about it? Furthermore, it is the libs who reward bad behavior with government handouts financed by the most productive members of society.

Rex: “You are free to try to change society norms by using the arena of ideas.”

You show me a politician trying to change the norms and I’ll show a politician that is quickly dismissed as a racist.

Rex: “Where we differ is if you get to use the force of government in enforce your views.”

Straw man - where did I say or imply that the government should use force?

Aside, on Hanna Montanna huff...
I have to say, when I heard about this, I was disgusted. Not by the kid who wrote the story, but by the people who put on the contest.

What chance did anyone have to win that prize, except if they had a wounded or dead Soldier in their story? If the kid had said my Dad was a soldier, he had a blast over there, and was happily reunited with his family now, they would have trashed the essay instantly.

The only other option was to be an illegitimate child of a crack whore, with a horrendous birth defect.

I don't blame the kid, or her Mom. The did what was required to win. And they were right!

I would never attempt to enter any essay contest, or "get your house remodeled for free" contest. What would be the point? I have no sob story, and the only people rewarded in this country are "victims" of something - preferably victimized by GWB, ie military service.

Watch "Deal or NO Deal" sometime. If you're not gay, or a survivor of 9-11, or some other victim class, you have Zero chance of getting on the air. I quit watching it, precisely because I was sick of the endless teary sob story. How about a happy person getting a shot at something?

As to Santa/Hillary...
I was disgusted by that, as well. How kind of her to promise these "gifts" to everyone, at MY expense!!

I truly think Fred Thompson is the one. The media is doing the best they can to pretend that McCain won in Iowa, but Fred Thompson came in 3rd - NOT McCain!

I agree that Duncan Hunter is the more charismatic, and if he had run here in NH, I would have voted for him, but he's not even on the board of options, and he hasn't run one ad that I've seen.

Heck, if they (the MSM) could eliminate Fred, they would, but since he beats McCain, they can't cut him out and leave McCain in. They're desperate to tell me I have to vote for McCain or Huckabee, but I see my choice is still viable. I will vote for Fred Thompson.

Ron Paul is right on the money on a lot of topics, but he is too out there on the rest. I just can't get by some of his nuttier positions, so I will stick with Fred. He ain't pretty, but he is reliable, and he's right on all the issues that matter most. He's also got a shot, which I don't believe Paul has.


Excellent Article Thomas!
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

onegoodguy
writes, "I think it could be argued that disaster assistance at some level is a suitable govt. function, similar to firefighting or even policing. (I would argue it should be done at as close to the local level as possible)"

Interesting statement. When in business school, I was part of a team of four assigned to attend a government sponsored seminar attempting to come up with a strategy regarding rural health care in our state. Health care providers and bureaucrats were trying to find ways and money to ensure all the latest and greatest benefits of medicine were available to everyone.

Our paper began with the question of exactly what level of health care should be considered a basic right and hence worthy of support by governmental taxes. What is a suitable government function? We have never had that discussion it seems or it is not worthy of the media's attention since it would conflict with their agenda.

We settled on EMS services and access to a primary care physician. EMS services probably can and should include disaster related services to ensure people do not die from starvation or exposure. Beyond that, it should not be the government's role to restore everyone to pre disaster status

I agree everything should be done at as local a level as possible including taxes. Federal grants to states and municipalities only perpetuates the Santa Claus myth. They take our money and filter it back down through the wonderfully efficient bureaucracy to where it came from in the first place and local papers write about the money as though it were from the tooth fairy.

Sorry CW
CW: Sorry but you don't get a pass when it comes to single mother births. Raygun was elected in 1980 that was 27 years ago for you fuzzy math folks. You have had majorities in both houses in several of those years. Conservatives have controlled the white house for 20 of the 28 years so when will you take your share of any blame for all the problems we have had since you were given the reins of power? You have had the power to change society norms, but have done nothing but try to implement solutions that go against human nature i.e. teenage sex. It hasn't ever worked and never will.
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